How about Ted Lilly, Alexis Rios and John-Ford Griffin?

It all depends how much of Manny's salary the Red Sox are prepared to eat. But as a starting point, Lilly, Rios and Griffin is sensible if the Jays are paying most of the bill.

I guarantee that the Sox will want pitching and in particular a couple of relievers. I say Speier, Chulk, and Rios assuming the Jays are taking tha majority of salary.

And for the naysayer(s) (and I'll assume that of the two, one is Paul S) have you ever seen Manny hit in the Dome? The people in the hotel would have a decent shot of some souvenirs every game.

If the Bosox were willing to put up most or all of the money, I think Orlando Hudson, much as I love him, might be a logical centrepiece of the package going to Beantown. Hudson, Chacin and Gross, maybe? If Toronto's expected to pay most of the freight, I think you have to scale it back to players like Catalanotto, Hinske and Griffin. I also imagine that Dave Bush would be a piece of the puzzle. For myself, the nightmare scenario would be Hudson AND Bush leaving; they're my 2nd and 3rd favorite players.

I think the deal would have to include one of Hudson, Hill and Adams , one of Rios, Griffen and Gross, and one or two of Marcum, Mcgowan, Speier, Chulk, Gaudin and Chacin.

Giving away three or four of these players to get a possible headache in manny...is it worth it?

To borrow an answer from the poll "45/130 in the four-hole? Yes, of course!"

"Lilly, Rios and Griffin is sensible if the Jays are paying most of the bill."

I think this is way too much to give up frankly. This is the same Manny who cleared waivers last year and who is reportedly demanding a trade (again). There are not a lot of teams in the running. The RedSox are not exactly in a strong negotiating position.

If the Jays are paying most of his contract then they ought to be able to do it with a couple of B prospects.

I must say I am not a big Manny fan. His fielding is brutal, his effort usually MIA, and he creates all kinds of issues. He has managed to hold it together in Boston but isn't likely to find his niche in TO. He has a much better track record with the bat than Mondesi but I would see Manny as the second coming of him with all the problems of fat contract and bad attitude.

If Manny is so valuable, why has Boston tried to move him half a dozen times? Wouldn't Toronto just take on the problems Boston has had?

I'd want him as a DH. Let's say his effective cost to the Jays in the deal would be $15 million per season. At that rate, you're paying market rate and relatively little should go back. You don't want to overpay for him because the Sox are a divisional rival.

I don't think the Sox view this as a salary dump - although they might need to swallow some of his contract in order to get a deal done, it isn't like they're trying to pare payroll. I expect that they're going to want to make a deal, or series of deals, that they think will improve their team. With that in mind, they're going to want something useful back in exchange for him, unless they can turn around and use the extra money to facilitate a deal somewhere else. Even so, they may need some talent back which they can then flip in another direction to add some talent and salary.

Mike's point is valid about not wanting to strengthen a division rival, but it applies equally from Boston's perspective as well. There may not be many suitors for Ramirez, but the Jays will have to put a demonstrably better table on the offer than, say, the Mets.

First of all, the Blue Jays' best player, Roy Halladay, will make $12.7M and $12.8M a season over the upcoming last two years of his contract. I would not want to see any player signed to a contract with a much higher single-season value than that. I could live with $13M, or maybe $14M tops for an exceptional player. For the Jays to pick up Manny, they should first and foremost ensure the Red Sox are paying at least $6M a year of his deal.

Second, defence matters these days. Left field is a less important defensive position, but it's not inconsequential. Manny is a consistently terrible outfielder, and while his defensive hatchet jobs wouldn't detract much from his tremendous bat, they would detract. His obvious position is DH, but I have the feeling -- I don't have any hard evidence to support it -- that you need to play Manny in the field just to keep his head even remotely in the game. Sitting him on the bench for all but four plate appearances in three hours would be asking for trouble from a mind notoriously given to wandering off.

Third, the Red Sox don't really need much that the Jays could offer in terms of prospects. They have a strong minor-league system that keeps producing top arms like Jon Papelbon and Craig Hansen; they might find a use for Brandon League, but that's about it for players not named McGowan.

And finally, I think it's more or less a moot point. The Red Sox don't really want to giftwrap such an extraordinary hitter to a rising division rival. Moreover, they're very likely to use the Blue Jays as leverage to get the Mets to sweeten their offer. The Jays could really use Ramirez, but the Mets need him, very badly. Manny will be a Met in 2006.

I can't stop laughing from some of the proposed offers here.

The Sox don't need to deal Manny. He's under contract. They already know Manny lives in Planet ManRam.

Any discussion involving Manny to the Jays should start with Doc or Wells (plus maybe other players) going the other way.

I think you're wrong, Ron. If the Sox want to deal Manny, and they DON'T want to pick up half his salary, they're not going to be asking for too much in return.

The Red Sox aren't going to get many offers if they are expecting the other team to pay Manny's entire contract AND they want a Roy Halladay in return.

What makes anybody think the Red Sox are going to trade Manny for 40 cents on the dollar?

Manny can change his agent but the fact remains the Sox hold all the cards. He's under contract.

Their was a rumoured trade ahwile back where ManRam was going to be shipped off to the Mets and the Sox would have recieved at least Huff and Baez.

His obvious position is DH, but I have the feeling -- I don't have any hard evidence to support it -- that you need to play Manny in the field just to keep his head even remotely in the game. Sitting him on the bench for all but four plate appearances in three hours would be asking for trouble from a mind notoriously given to wandering off.

Why not give him the job of bullpen catcher? Gotta pay attention or you'll get a curveball to the ol' face.

I wouldn't mind a hitter like Ramirez in a Jay uniform. But he's lazy, and as I mentioned before, JP hates lazy players. He already said he's not willing to spend astronomical amounts of money for a big bat, and for one that's lazy and useless in the field, I think that's a no brainer. Ramirez plays LF because of the green monster--he doesn't have to run too much.

If we had to pay his whole salary, I may part with a Gross or Rios but giving up a McGowan would be a mistake.

Given a choice to pay Ramirez $15m or Burnett $10m, I would almost always choose the pitcher, and I'm sure JP would do the same.

They gotta pay most of his salary.

But I don't think the Sox would be trading him to a Division opponent, would they?

"Manny can change his agent but the fact remains the Sox hold all the cards. He's under contract."

Hey, I know you know Toronto sports, so I don't think I need to remind you of the Vince Carter Debacle.

Sox might hold the cards, but Manny can keep dropping his value effectively holding a gun to the head of Management.

Raps GM: Rob Babcock
Sox GM: Theo Epstein

Case Closed:)

The big difference between Manny and VC is that VC's stock was at an all-time low at the time he wanted out while Manny is perhaps the best slugger right now in MLB.

Besides we don't even know if Manny wants out right now. He didn't talk to the media after yesterday's loss.

I can't see why he would want in. See, Manny hates all the media attention. He hates being looked at under a microscope. But he'll put up with it if he gets to win. So, when Manny doesn't win, he's going to get all the unwanted attention but nothing to show for it. I said this before, but I am confident that if he could be on any team now, it would be Toronto. He loves Toronto and he knows what a good fit it would be for him.

Plus, when we throw things at him it's just popcorn.

Compare that to the batteries you get in Yankee stadium.

Hey, speaking of the Yankees, wouldn't Manny be a great centre fielder for the Yankees?

If he is so desirable, why wasn't he touched while he was on Waivers?

This drama builds by the minute, but VC didn't ask for a trade when his stock was at an all time low, he rode it into the ground during the first half of the Raps season, but had orginally asked to be dealt in the Off season.

Theo of course is a better GM than babcock, but if Manny gets off to a slow start next season, it could get ugly fast.

I voted No! No! No! because I do not like Manny's attitude. I didn't like it in Cleveland and I don't like it in Boston. Manny appears to call the shots on that team and that will not work on the Jays. We don't need a guy who only plays when he feels like it (remember Raul Mondesi?). This Jays team is one that showed this year a never give up attitude and displayed a lot of scrappiness and hustle consistently. Manny doesn't do that. Sure he's a 45/130 guy but if the Jays are going to have to pay him 15 mil, why not sign a free agent slugger with a better attitude and work ethic for similar dollars? He'd fit into the team better and there wouldn't be all that baggage to haul around.
Yes it's exciting to think that Manny could end up in Toronto but there are other big fish in the ocean Bauxites.

Manny and money for Lily, Catalanotto and Chulk. More than that is overpaying for a diminishing value.
I'm surprised there aren't more players waving their arms at JP, given the elephant's political situation.

Since I spurred the poll, I suppose you are all waiting for me to give my two cents.

No, I don't want Manny. In Toronto, he'd essentially be a DH. The Green Monster disguises a horrible defender as a subpar defender. In Toronto, it would take 10 games to expose Manny's defensive limitations.

For 20 million is it too much to ask for a well rounded player? Heck, the Yankees are only paying ARod 16 million per.