Prior to the season I felt Hinske should have been the platoon DH - and that Hillenbrand was the waste of money, and he has done nothing other than really excede my expectations after Rios took the full time job in the OF.

My feeling on this are somewhat mixed because I really have no idea what some of the long term plans are for specific positions, so I'm not sure if Hinske being traded actually makes sense or not.

If he was just going to continue burning a hole in the bench/wallet even next season, then fine, I guess trade him for something useful, however, I thought he had at least earned a chance to start in a platoon role next year for the club, and we are basically paying part of his salary to do that.

Just to add, I'd like to see what the PTBNL is as well, in order to make a more complete opinion.

Riccardi should have packaged himself with Hinske to be traded to Boston for a GMTBNL and cash considerations. The goal of a ball team is to win ballgames, not be cost effective or to turn a profit. I don't follow a team or read about a team or write about a team because they are cost effective. And I don't think Doc or Vernon or AJ or BJ or Zaunie or anyone else plays for this team does it because they provide bits of entertainment under a tight budget. You want to make money with a ball team? Build a winning team and don't start stripping away pieces of it to close rivals for nothing in return. It's an insult to the players and its an insult to the fans. The future is never.

You can't blame the fans if they see this as a 'giving up on 06' move. The Jays just traded an .800+ OPS bat vs RHP which was very valuable since the Hillenbrand move.

Hinske was the consummate professional. Came to the ballpark, worked extra hard, was told to learn something else, worked harder at that, was told to work on something else, worked harder there too. Never complained, never moaned and did everything anyone could have asked of him.

In a way I'm sad because Hinske was just becoming a fan favorite again. The Boos had stopped, he received loud cheers when he would be announced and he turned himself from a scapegoat into the little (or big) guy everyone wanted to root for. I myself was thinking about getting a Hinske jersey. He had alot of fans here (especially one very big fan) and it's a shame we won't see his amazing comeback at baseball in Toronto.

At the same time, if you really love something you'll let it go. I truly hope he can find a starting job somewhere in Boston or afterwards because he's easily one of baseball's hardest working players. Hopefully he thrives in Fenway, and with the media attention, can get another big contract.

 

 

Riccardi should have packaged himself with Hinske to be traded to Boston for a GMTBNL and cash considerations. The goal of a ball team is to win ballgames, not be cost effective or to turn a profit. I don't follow a team or read about a team or write about a team because they are cost effective. And I don't think Doc or Vernon or AJ or BJ or Zaunie or anyone else plays for this team does it because they provide bits of entertainment under a tight budget. You want to make money with a ball team? Build a winning team and don't start stripping away pieces of it to close rivals for nothing in return. It's an insult to the players and its an insult to the fans. The future is never.

Well said.  Wasn't it the Red Sox that the Jays outbid for JP's services.  Then the Red Sox got stuck with that Epstein guy.  What possible use would they have for JP now.

The future is not never.  Once the Blue Jays land a GM who truly understands the "moneyball" concept of value for $$$ they will be on their way.  You cannot ever trade your best values away (Hudson, Bush, Gross) for overpriced skills.  Just keep building slowly, piece by piece, always adding value for $$$ spent and eventually you will have a strong team at a reasonable cost.  Detroit, Oakland, Minnesota, Cleveland,  Tampa Bay,  San Diego, Arizona, Milwaukee, and Florida are now getting it.  It appears that the Blue Jays have missed the initial wave of sanity, but is't never to late to get started.

Boston, Yankees, Mets (with the new GM), and St. Louis have the big bucks to spend but it also has to be admitted they all make a lot of shrewd moves to maximize their advantage.  In major league baseball as it is currently structured no team wins without a top notch GM.  Good team building skills will always beat the random throwing of money at big name talent.

I have been down on Hinske since his rookie year but his contributions this season have been tremendous.

He's always been solid against RHP and has now shown to be adequate at 3rd, 1st, and in Left Field. 

A great bargain for the Red Sox next year. 

If the payroll stays the same next year we struggle to match our 2006 win total. 

JP showed guts signing Ryan and Burnett this past off-season but the Burnett signing may very well become his trademark failure and end his tenure as Jays GM.

 

It's not just giving up on '06, but giving the Red Sox a boost? Send Eric to the Tigers, the Dodgers, the Mets, anyone out there who'd like a useful player at $2.8 mil next season and a small cost for solidifying depth for this playoff push. Why on earth give him to the Red Sox if it doesn't mean getting a particularly good prospect in return? That is truly baffling. I heard JP on Prime Time saying it was not going to be any top prospect, but at least let it be a solid major leaguer. Some guy who's projected to be a competent bullpen arm at least. Another Brian Tallet, even a Pete Walker. But just to save $4-mil? Surely it could be done without boosting a division rival.

That would be stupid.

"JP has no plan" with a slim lead.

The people are speaking, Mr. Godfrey.

I voted for JP has no plan.  I don't like this trade, it doesn't really affect the day-to-day lineup and I can't see the loss of Hinske costing us more than say one ballgame the rest of the year but we will play Boston before the season is out, and there is a mathematical possiblity Eric Hinske could be the guy who sinks us.  Paying Koskie to play in Milwaukee is bad, but I think paying Hinske to play in Boston is a crime.  I think many teams, including say Minnesota could have used Hinkse and had much less potential to hurt us.

I can see why salary dumps are sometimes necessary, but I am sitting here as a fan and thinking that Eric Hinkse, Jose Cruz, Raul Mondesi, Brad Fullmer, Josh Phelps, and Alex Gonzalez departed this team and we did not get any current major leaguers in return.  I can see that each of these players had what could be considered fatal flaws, but not ONE major leaguer for many guys who enjoyed flashes of greatness?

I am also starting to question JP's draft decisions.  Brandon League is looking good now, and I think Aaron Hill will stick but the grim reaper is standing behind Russ Adams - a 1st rounder.  JP is pretty good at finding useful players basically on the scrap heap, guys like Gregg Zaun, Tom Wilson, Mike Bordick.  Useful players, but not guys who will lead us to the promised land.

Factor in some bad luck, in the Quantril/Izturis trade and call the Felipe Lopez trade  a bust and I think you have a very shakey record as a GM for JP.  I am having trouble seeing the plan, and I think decision time on JP should be at hand soon.

 

I believe League was drafted by Gord Ash, not during the JP era, as were most of the top talent hanging around in the system, including Rosario and McGowan.

but I am sitting here as a fan and thinking that Eric Hinkse, Jose Cruz, Raul Mondesi, Brad Fullmer, Josh Phelps, and Alex Gonzalez departed this team and we did not get any current major leaguers in return

That is unfair to lump all of these deals together.   Jose Cruz left via free agency, after a year where he hit .245/.317/.438, getting paid almost $4MM.  The Jays didn't sign him, he signed with the Giants for $2.5MM a year.  You know who they signed instead? Frank Catalanotto for $2.2MM.  Cruz was supposed to be the CF of the future, but a guy name Wells did better.  He was moved to RF, but there was Green and then Mondesi and then Reed Johnson. 

Raul Mondesi was, at the time of his trade, getting paid $11MM for that year, with $13MM due for the next year.  Would you pay that much for a man hitting .224/.301/.435? The Yankees would.  Stienbrenner told Cashman to get Mondesi on his team.  Ricciardi couldn't say yes fast enough.  Signed as free agents that off-season: Josh Towers, Frank Catalanotto, Greg Myers and Mike Bordick and Cory Lidle was acquired in a trade. 

Brad Fullmer, I'm not sure if  he was traded by JP as JP was hired in 2002 and Fullmer was traded in January 2002.  I'm not sure, but I think he was moved in order to get Josh Phelps into the lineup. 

Josh Phelps didn't pan out.  His stats went down and down and he was due to be a free agent at the end of the season, and I don't think JP had any intention of signing him, so he tried to get something (Eric Crozier).  Phelps coudn't hit RHP and couldn't play 1B.  Crozier could play some defense and could hit RHP, at AAA.  Remember, Delgado was gone at the end of the year and Phelps was not going to replace him, Crozier had at least a shot. 

Alex Gonzalez was also traded before JP was hired, and his contract still had 3 years and $15MM left on it, with Chris Woodward and Felipe Lopez  behind him.

Right now, 1 of these players is still in the major leagues.  Jose Cruz is hitting .233/.353/.381 for the Dodgers.  Would you still want these guys back? 

JP got rid of 3 players who had no future with the team and just taking up payroll.  Hinske is playing a lot better than those 3 at the time fo their trade and has been VERY professional at all times.  But what was his future with the Jays?  With Overbay at first, Glaus at third, the emergence of Rios in RF and his inability to hit LHP, he couldn't be an everyday DH.  He could platoon at DH, but he is basically a bench player for over $5MM next season.  I also think that everyone of us thought that Hinske was getting paid too much to be a bench player, but there was no position for him to play.  The Red Sox can afford to pay whatever they end up paying him so that he can be around to back up Trot Nixon, who is injured, Wily Mo Pena, Mike Lowell and Kevin Youkilis.  Hinske has also performed quite well against the Yankees.

I have not made up my mind on whether I like this trade for the fact that we don't know who we are getting back.  I know it won't be a top-shelf prospect but it could be someone like...Michael Young.  The biggest issue I take with this trade is the fact that Hinske was traded to a Divsion Rival.  Never trade with a division rival.  You are just asking for this guy to kill you.  And JP just freed up about $3.5MM for this offseason, that will come in handy.  JP definitaly has a plan and Hinske just wasn't part of it.

You cannot ever trade your best values away (Hudson, Bush, Gross) for overpriced skills.

  Of course you can, if you're strong in one area and weak in another. Having three good middle infielders (as one might have considered Hudson, Hill, and Adams in the offseason) is useless. Gabe Gross has value, but it's almost meaningless value if he's the fifth or sixth best outfielder on the team. Should the Jays have hoarded all their cheap, young talent and gone into the season with no first baseman and counting on Corey Koskie to stay healthy?