The poll nobody wants to win: Least favorite Ex-Jay? (Tell us why!)
| Derek Bell |  6 (1.63%) |
| Jose Canseco | 21 (5.72%) |
| Roger Clemens | 31 (8.45%) |
| Shea Hillenbrand | 146 (39.78%) |
| Eric Hinske | 10 (2.72%) |
| Al Leiter | 17 (4.63%) |
| Esteban Loaiza | 59 (16.08%) |
| Shannon Stewart | 3 (0.82%) |
| David Wells | 48 (13.08%) |
| Other (who?) | 26 (7.08%) |
I voted other because I detested Otis Nixon and all that he represented to the team.
I detested Bourbon, too.
I have no animosity towards Clemens and Canseco and Alomar. They came to Toronto and kicked butt by working their butts off. Kudos.
Al Leiter. Hands down.
My recollection is that we paid this *ss for years and years and years while he fought blisters and contributed almost nothing. (Ya I know it wasn't THAT long...but it seemed like it was.)
It was clear he was a significant talent, we all looked forward to getting a return on our investment of caring and nurturing and then BAM he leaves. To make matters worse he developed as we thought he might and there were YEARS and YEARS when we NEEDED that left arm of his pitching for us and the turkey was throwing bullets for other guys.
Hands down my vote for least favorite ex-Jay. No one is even a close second. IM(H)O.
I voted other for Mondesi as he is my least favourite, with Clemens a close second. I liked Clemens the player, but as a person, he is a giant tool.
Glad to see no one voting for Hinske, as he always gave 100% for this team, and I would love to have him back as a utility guy.
I voted Hillenbrand, what with his whining, vast overrating of his own performance, and trying to tank the team. Not many on the list have actively sabotauged the team like he tried to. Most just stunk (and were better elesewhere), or general jerks.
I probably dislike Clemens more, but not as an Ex-Jay exactly, it's more of a general dislike barely even tied to his time in Toronto. I think the throwing a broken bat at Piazza incident clinched his giant douchebag status in my head forever. Plus the Yankees stench wafts off him now, and possibly again.
I voted for Clemens who is probably the best pitcher of our day...I can't say I really hate him but he was probably the one Jay I've most disliked. How can a guy who pitched perhaps his best 2 seasons in a Jays uniform completely act like he never played for the bluebirds! He asked to be traded and it upsets me because we had Hentgen and 3 studs coming up in the forms Halladay, Carpenter and Escobar. That would have been an awesome rotation...perhaps even a World Series or two!
I personally can't see why Hillenbrand is the more hated ex-Jay...aside from his lapse of judgement, he's been extremely professional and probably the most consistent hitter during his time here...and that's saying alot since Cat was perhaps the most consistent. I loved Hillenbrand for his intensity, his love for animals(he's got like 25 animals on his farm in Mesa), and above all his 2005 season where he was arguably the best hitter for the Jays. A time when our $126 million man performed at a sub par rate. Shea! You're my boy, Blue!
Mondesi. Although Joey McLaughlin might strike a chord with Bauxites who have reached middle age
Otis Nixon to me was an aging player on his downside and to me was the personification of an organization that was clearly in decline.
When I was in University I didn't have time to follow the team much, why the unlove for Derek Bell?
Jose Canseco and Roger Clemens were awesome as Blue Jays and got me watching baseball again after the strike. Jose never caused any trouble as a Blue Jay, and I got the sense from his book he had fun in Toronto. Clemens was kind of screwed over by Gord Ash, and never had a team around him - I remember the discussion was that Clemens was gonig to sign with Atlanta to get to a WS but Ash told him that TO had two more titles. Roger was probably dumb to take that at face value given the roster had some talent but was nothing special.
Shannon Stewart was a good player, not a star and as far as I can remember a gentleman I didn't like Hinske's swearing, but his bloated contract wasn't his fault. Loaiza falls under the category of overhyped, ovepaid mediocre player and the only reason to dislike him was that he was jammed down our throats as an "ace". David Wells can be safely ignored, and in five years nobody will remember Shea.
Hmm...just hit me, could Ash be voted for? He traded Clemens for Wells rather than going for top notch prospects, traded for 'He Who Shall Not Be Named' and gave up major talent, did that dumb trade with Pittsburgh for Garcia and Orlando Merced (Craig Wilson was a throw in), dumped John Olerud for nothing (even paid his salary), kept Joe Carter around well past his expiry date, let Roberto Alomar go in 95 rather than negotiate pre-season 95 since he though salaries would go down (!), messed up with Escobar over and over again, left TIm Johnson out to hang for a full winter rather than making up his mind leading to the ugly Jim Fregosi era which led to Wells spending Septembers in Toronto gathering dust, hired Buck Martinez as manager 100% as PR rather than signing the best manager he could find, took a 2 time WS winner and cracked 85 wins exactly once over 7 seasons (JP has had 85+ twice so far).
Ugh. Could go on all day. He seemed like a nice guy but boy did he screw up as a GM. Without those great scouts finding top talent in the draft the Jays would've really been screwed (ie: KC level of screw up).
Billy Koch.
Who can forget him being cut by the Jays then showing up in Tampa Bay wearing an Aubrey Huff jersey and heckling his former teammates? Or how about the fact he refused to sign with another team so the Jays would be on the hook for his contract...classy.
Then there's Robert Person. John Olerud was worth that?
Olerud was railroaded out of town for not becoming a pull-happy power hitter. Gaston just wasn't happy with the way Olerud would hit doubles to the left field gap. I don't believe that anyone in Toronto thought that Person was equal value coming back.
Is Mike Sirotka eligible? He earned a lot of money and never threw a pitch.
Ash traded for a knowingly hurt pitcher (well, everyone but Ash knew it seems). Why should Sirotka be blamed for that?
I personally can't see why Hillenbrand is the more hated ex-Jay...aside from his lapse of judgement, he's been extremely professional and probably the most consistent hitter during his time here...
Not sure what professionalism you are referring to. As for consistency, that's hardly a virtue when the level of performance is not very high.
I urge everyone to consider He Who Shall Not Be Named - he cost us Michael Young. And sucked.
Why not blame the guy who traded for him? You trade for a guy who's crappy and then are surprised when he turns out to be... crappy?
Leiter still gets it for me. Felt too much like he used Toronto for negotiating with no intent to ever return.
And that would make him unique in FA circles how exactly?
Hmm...just hit me, could Ash be voted for?
Yes! Ash's name should be at the top of the list. You'd think that all that time spent not wasted in sock stores could have been put to better use, like better evaluating personnel.
Paul Beeston was the sockless front-office guy, rather than Ash. And why 2 votes for Hinske? From my perspective his only wrong was that he wasn't able to build on his ROY campaign. He moved from 3B to 1B without complaint, moved from 1B to RF without complaint the next year, saw his playing time drop once Rios broke out, and never once did he whine publicly.
My vote was for Derek Bell - he got run out of town for a bad attitude, became a vastly overrated RBI guy thanks to his Houston days (I could have had 10 or 15 RBI groundouts batting after Bagwell and Biggio) and ended his career with "Operation Shutdown". Pure class.
traded for 'He Who Shall Not Be Named' and gave up major talent
I don't think Young was considered "major talent" at the time. He had a very nice season in Dunedin at age 22 (313/389/428), and he was doing okay at AA as a 23 year-old (275/340/426) when he was traded to Texas. The Jays had a bunch of 2b prospects at the time - Brent Abernathy was younger and looking pretty good in AAA, Joe Lawrence was a 1st-round draft pick having a good year in Dunedin along with some Hudson guy. Even Ryan Freel was playing some 2b and looking like a nice utility/leadoff guy.
Young certainly turned out a lot better than anyone else, but I don't remember anyone thinking too highly of him at the time.
Yes! Ash's name should be at the top of the list. You'd think that all that time spent not wasted in sock stores could have been put to better use, like better evaluating personnel.
I think you're confusing Ash with that sockless wonder, Paul Beeston. Mind you, Ash did save a lot of time not having to have his hair cut.
Clearly Alzheimer's can't be far off. Thanks to those of you correcting my faulty sock-wearing memory.
Joey Hamilton
I expected a lot more when we traded Woody Williams and Carlos Almazar for Joey Hamilton . Teams hit him like it was batting practice, while Williams became an allstar for Sandiego.
While I think about it I couldn't stand Terry Adams either. How many blown saves did he have before we gave up on him as a closer.
All these bitter feelings are comming back....
I voted Shea. I quite liked Hinske and Stewart, and it surprises me that anyone would list either of these as "least favourite". I guess that it's a subjective thing.
And finished 26 games out of first that year!
My vote went to 'other', representing Carlos Almanzar. I remember shouting at the radio, "Could you *please* stop bringing this guy in to pitch?!"
Personally, I don't really care whether a player is a jerk. I don't have to marry or hang out with him. I just have to watch him from a distance. Clemens could be the King of the Jerks, but he is still awesome. He delivered on his end of the bargain. I also don't care if a player sort of sucked. Sure it's disapointing, but life is full of them. I'm sure they knew they sucked too. It's the combo of sucking and then bitching about the team, the city, the fans. I never disliked Shea as a player. His performance as a Jay was fine. He had his role. But great merciful crap, boy, stop talking about it. Stop bitching about how Toronto was hell for you and you were so disrespected. And going on about how Scioscia will respect you (like you know he will already) Let it go!!!!
Sheesh, the egos.
Count me in as one wondering why Stewart is even on this list.
My guess is the author recalling some posters to this board a month before Stewart was traded.
Longtime readers here will remember a few trying to whip up a big hate on Shannon. Lengthy personal diatribes diminshing him as a ball player. That was ugly. I'm happy to see there have been no lingering resentment.
And when Strewart is retired I hope he identifies with the BlueJays and comes back for old boy daze.
Regarding Billy Koch: I'm pretty sure his heckling in Tampa Bay was in jest. Plus you have to remember that he's the same guy who paid Justin Miller $ 1,500 to tatoo "I love Bill Koch" his butt. That's classic stuff. I don't have a problem with him wanting the Jays to pay him the full amount of his contract. We'd likely criticize an athlete for demanding a new contract so I don't think it makes sense to criticize one for expecting his contract to be honoured.
In the episode Louise Revisited, Dan and Casey realize that there is a poll on the company's website asking who is cooler, Dan or Casey. Casey, in zealous pursuit of victory, enlists the help of loveable office nerd Jeremy. Here is an excerpt from the script, now with an exciting new ending featuring yours truly.
CASEY
Can you rig my computer so it does
nothing but vote?
JEREMY
On the internet?
CASEY
I was up all night voting. At first I
kept returning to the home page and
coming back, then I figured out I
could hold down the "return" key and
hit F-12 for refresh, but even that
was taking too long.
JEREMY
What kind of results are you looking
for?
CASEY
I want to bury him.
...
JEREMY
All right, I tell you what's gonna
happen: We're gonna telnet into the
network mainframe and FTP a perl
script right through a DK trapdoor
into the CGI server.
CASEY
I like the sound of that. What's it
gonna do for me?
JEREMY
It's gonna vote for you.
CASEY
How many times, how often?
JEREMY
2000 times a minute, 24 hours a day.
CASEY
You're a magnificent young man.
...
LEIGH
Now do Hillenbrand.
Oh, this is interesting...
Well, Canseco and Clemens barely seemed to be Blue Jays even when they wore the uniform. They were mercenaries passing through on their way to somewhere else. They came, they kicked butt on our behalf, they moved on.
Nor do I see why anyone should hold a grudge against Hinske or Stewart. They did what they could until the team traded them away.
Shea Hillenbrand turned out to be exactly as advertised, and I'm pretty sure we're all going to enjoy watching him fail.
Derek Bell was an immature kid at the end of his career, and the Jays had him at the beginning. I can't hold it against him; I'm just really glad that he wasn't our problem for most of it.
Al Leiter, as I've written over and over, is a target for people who have fallen for Beeston and Ash's frantic search for a scapegoat for their disastrous 1995 off-season. They let Devon White, Paul Molitor, and Roberto Alomar slip away and they wanted people to be upset about losing Al Leiter? Leiter was the Mike Sirotka of his day. He was damaged goods before he got here, but unlike Sirotka: a) he was making the major league minimum at the time so it's not like he actually cost them anything, and b) he actually did get healthy enough to help win a world championship.
If Esteban Loaiza had done the complete Chris Carpenter routine, and continued to perform at his 2003 level after leaving town... well, it would be hard to be more detestable. He went 25-28 as a Blue Jay, and took home more $10 million in the two plus years he was here. (Al Leiter, by contrast, went 26-24 as a Blue Jay and over the course of almost seven years was paid a total of just a little over $2 million.) But Loaiza quickly reverted to something much more like mediocrity, which takes a bit of the edge off.
David Wells the first time around was fairly easy to put up with. He was something of an immature loose cannon, but he pitched well in a variety of roles and helped win a World Series. And you can't get too upset with a player who wants to prove a point to the team that gave him his unconditional release.
But the second time around was something else, though. He was the team's best starter, but he was fat, grouchy, and really hard to look at (he and Joey Hamilton reminded me of some horrible wrestling tag-team combo.) He moaned and complained until he forced a trade, and he's been fun to root against ever since.
So I'll vote for Boomer.
It's almost a different category, but the guys I really disliked were the guys I never wanted on the team in the first place. Hello, Otis Nixon! Yes, let's keep Shannon Stewart in Syracuse another year and a half. Why not?
And Orlando Merced. All that season, I kept asking myself - why is this guy here?
A note on Gruber - the Blue Jays thought Gruber was soft, they knew he certainly didn't take care of himself, and believed he wasn't nearly as badly hurt as he was letting on. They almost had it right. Gruber was soft, he didn't take care of himself, but he really did have a serious injury.
I can't stand Shea Hillenbrand, he's always bugged me. He's a whiny baby who can't field, won't take a walk, has moderate power at best and is a streaky hitter. But if you ask him how good he is he'll tell you that he's the most valuable player in the league and then he'll rant about how bad his old team was and how they were responsible for all of his problems. Man, I can't stand that guy.
Eric Hinske should NOT be on the list, he worked his butt off and did whatever he was told and whatever he could to help the team out and he did it with a smile on his face. It's not his fault that he overachieved in his rookie year and was subsequently over-paid.
(Of course, I also have to thank Ash for making me a more knowledgeable baseball fan. His suckitude as GM motivated me into looking into players' numbers to try and understand why some players have greater success than others. I needed some understanding of why the Jays kept losing.)
"Inning Ender Ed!"
For all his bloody double plays.. or strike outs at crucial times... ahhhhh the frustration!
"If you can honestly say that you'd turn down a lot more money out of loyalty to your company, then good for you, really. Otherwise don't slam players for leaving for more money, because I believe that 99% of us would do the exact same thing."
Unfortunately I've never had to make that decision..... being offered substantially more money I mean.
He gets hurt, and then because of that injured season, he gets a small contract offer from T.O. He then takes a moderately larger contract from St. Louis and bolts.
I don't believe that's entirely accurate. I thought that Carpenter was non-tendered by the Jays who's only other option was to offer him arbitration and thus be forced to him pay much more than they wanted to risk on a recently ineffective pitcher just coming of surgery.
St. Louis decided to gamble on Carpenter and paid him much less than the Toronto would have, bound as they were by the framework of arbitration. I'm not sure that Carpenter had many competing offers. The Cards' gamble was the type that generally doesn't pay off. They won the lottery.
Sure, Shawn was traded. But Vernon would be reviled all the same if the club tried to trade him rather than pay him his asking price.
Chastising guys who want to leave for a bigger contract is silly. Chastising guys who make a commitment to the team at a fair price and then demand to be let out of that commitment, that's the way to do it.
Lemme tell ya them guys aint dumb
C'mon, boost that rating for Roger, he likes to be a winner. It would bruise his ego not to come out on top. If you love him or hate him, give Roger a vote or two. Maybe get a blister on your index finger.
Hillenbrand's homophobic crap dealing with Theo had me disliking him before he even came to Toronto.
That beats out any anti-Blue Jay comments.
I figured this would be a popular question, but with 341 votes, it's now the second-most-responded-to question in the history of Batter's Box, out of 399 posted to date. My goodness!
Only this one received more responses:
Lyle Overbay for Dave Bush, Gabe Gross and Zach Jackson. What d'ya think?
Ed Sprague. Why? Look at the link and imagine yourself trying not to throw something through the television screen every time he came to bat.
Wait one second - if not for Sprague's two-run home run in the 9th inning of Game 2 of the 92 World Series, the Braves go up 2-0 and take a stranglehold on the Series. I'm not suggesting that the Jays would not have been able to come back, especially with the next three at home, but it's a tough crowd that would include the man who hit one of the three biggest home runs in team history (along with Joe Carter and Robbie Alomar) as a least favourite ex-Jay.
Incidentally, I believe it was Derek Bell who got that rally started with a pinch-hit single, and came around to tie the scoring run on Sprague's blast.
Google sez:
Your search - "Lefties Gone Bad" - did not match any documents.
So, no. Not yet anyway!