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Bonds indicted! Your first reaction?

It's about time. 45 (25.00%)
No big deal, nothing will come of it. 16 (8.89%)
Prison time is coming. 14 (7.78%)
Barry -- no Hall for you! 14 (7.78%)
Wayyy too much attention to this. 26 (14.44%)
Waste of government resources. 47 (26.11%)
Yawwwwn. 13 (7.22%)
Other (what?) 5 (2.78%)
Bonds indicted! Your first reaction? | 16 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
AWeb - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 11:57 AM EST (#176174) #
I voted "It's about time", which I think it was. The famous often seem to be above account; celebrities get caught with drugs and driving offenses that many poorer, less famous people spend years in prison for.  Opening lying to the justice system can be and should be something you get in serious trouble for. I wish more rich business people and politicians were called to account for this sort of thing, but I'll shed no tears for Bonds. His lies were numerous and obvious, if the leaks from the grand jury were correct, both having to do with his own substance use and his relationships with those providing them to himself and others.

It's possible this wil end Bonds' career, and leave a great debate for future generations of baseball fans, the ever popular What if... game (see: Ted Williams, Willie Mays). If Rodriguez, or Pujols, or someone else, ends up 10-50 HRs past Bonds, will people be arguing "yeah, but if ... hadn't happened" for Bonds in 30 years?
Mylegacy - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 12:35 PM EST (#176178) #

First of all I have to confess - I've never been normal. 25 years as a professional "dispute resolutionist" in various business guises has warped me to the point where I can appreciate so many sides of each argument that I can be incoherent.

I, at the time I started to write this, am the only "other" vote.

IMO Bonds was a HOFer before the clear, the juice, the needles, the pills and the long descent into chaos. Bonds was a GREAT player, an obnoxious odious human, but a GREAT player. Then along came Canseco, McGwire, Lansford, Giambi etc. all-juiced, all-white and all-forgiven. SO - Bonds juices and not surprising becomes as good or better juiced as they were, makes sense since he was better than them before juice so he should be better after juicing.

SO, now the only big time BLACK in the gig is going to jail for up to 30 years for lying about it and McGwire says to HIS government when subpoenaed "I'm not here to talk about the past." I might feel a little better if I wasn't disgusted by the oppressive racism south of  the border, I might feel a little better if I had more respect for a criminal justice system that MURDERS murderers on a state lottery system.

The truth is I feel sick to my stomach. Bonds, in his run to the big hit has acted with more class and dignity than the rest of them put together. Now, like Martha Stewart before him, he'll go to jail for "lying" while a dysfunctional country winks as the Blackwater Gang murderers slaughter 14 innocents.

I told you I wans't normal. Bonds, here's one vote for you. Baseball's a game man. Baseball's a game.

Pistol - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 01:20 PM EST (#176182) #
I like the last three options.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head for me.

AWeb - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 01:25 PM EST (#176183) #

McGwire was forgiven? Canseco is white? I still hate Giambi... But more seriously, I do see your point about it being Bonds getting hit for this while other, far worse, crimes are being ignored. I just don't see how other crimes going unprosecuted justifies letting Bonds slide on his [alleged] crimes. If he actually gets 30 years in prison for it, that would be a travesty, but a bit of jail time seems deserved to me. Bonds didn't act classy for the grand jury; Giambi had the personal integrity, at least, to admit to what he was doing when faced with possible consequences. So did other players, apparently. Mind you, this is the bottom scum of the integrity barrel (tell the truth or go to jail), and it didn't raise my opinion of anyone when I heard they had admitted their use. But Bonds lied, and pretty boldly lied at that. Bonds may have acted better in the public eye, but he tried to avoid even he most basic personal responsibility for his actions when he had a chance under oath.

The institutional racism is the US (and don't kid yourselves Canada, it's here too) did cross my mind many times when I wrote my first comment, I just wasn't sure if it merited mention here. McGwire's shameful act in front of congress was almost as bad, and could quickly have reached the perjury level if the representatives had the courage to push it that far.  Palmeiro perjured himself with his testimony (or so it appears), and was let go without consequences. But outsiders testifying for congress have a long and distinguished history of lying and avoiding the facts (lobbyists, boutgh and paid for 'scientists', industry executives); I'm not aware of anyone being brought up on charges for it.  

It's not a simple issue, when looked at in a larger context. I just choose not to do that all the time. Sometimes lying to the grand jury is just lying to the grand jury...

John Northey - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 01:50 PM EST (#176185) #
I'm on the 'waste of government resources' side. Geez, an athlete lied about taking drugs when telling the truth could end his career. Just like, oh, about 10,000 other athletes out there. Lets take almost the entire Olympic team to trial (or at least any who talked to a grand jury). What about Palmeiro? What about various others?

No question this is a witch hunt pure and simple. If they were chasing him on taxes or something like that, OK. But for lying about taking drugs? Sheesh. Talk about politicians trying to look good on TV. Guess their next tough stand will be to say they are in favour of the flag or something.
Chuck - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 03:08 PM EST (#176192) #

while a dysfunctional country winks as the Blackwater Gang murderers slaughter 14 innocents.

Hear hear. Everyone will talk about Bonds. Everyone will talk about Britney Spears' next public debacle. But most Americans have no idea who Blackwater is.

Just more evidence that Chomsky is right. The entertainment industry is meant to distract the teeming masses, and distracted we are.

timpinder - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 05:51 PM EST (#176200) #

A waste of government resources.  Bonds hasn't hurt anyone other than himself.  We waste far too much time and money putting people behind bars for victimless crimes.  The Americans have their priorities wrong. (As do we in Canada to a lesser degree.)  They jail people for smoking a joint and have a show trial because some athlete used steroids and lied about it.  Who cares?

However, it seems to me that crying racism is the common knee-jerk reaction whenever something like this happens to a minority.  First of all, last time I checked, Conseco and Palmeiro were latino.  Secondly, correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Giambi, McGwire, nor Conseco lied to the grand jury.  Refusing to answer a question that might incriminate you is not an offence.  I know Palmeiro stated that he never used steroids, but is there any hard evidence that proves otherwise?  The fact that he was caught using steroids after he made that statement and that he was rumoured to have used steroids raises serious suspicion, but does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did in fact use steroids prior to to making his statement to congress.  You can't charge somebody based on suspicion.  From what I've read there is real evidence proving that Bonds used steroids.  I'm sure that if similar evidence existed that proved that Palmeiro used steroids prior to his statement of denial to congress, he'd be indicted too.

I think it's a waste of time, but I don't think it's motivated by racism.

ayjackson - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 06:18 PM EST (#176201) #

By and large, I agree with what's been said here.  However, I believe it serves the Grand Jury quite well to prosecute high profile people who lie under oath.  It is an important legal institution and Bonds showed it little respect.  Was he unaware that Balco was raided?  No.  Was he unaware that they he had given them blood and/or urine samples?  Highly unlikely.  He told a bold face lie to the Grand Jury to protect himself.  He could have at least taken the 5th - this is why it was written.  No he lied and obstructed justice to retain some element of doubt as to the obvious amongst the masses.

Sure, there's a witchhunt element here.  But, if I'm the Grand Jury, and lying under oath is a day-to-day problem for me, then I'm prosecuting too.

Magpie - Friday, November 16 2007 @ 09:40 PM EST (#176206) #
A waste of government resources, although there's something to be said for the notion that the world would be much better off if the folks running this particular government devoted all their time and resources to things like baseball. Rather than matters of life or death, war or peace....

That said, you lie to a grand jury, you go to jail. Just like Scooter.

Hang on....

daryn - Saturday, November 17 2007 @ 09:51 AM EST (#176211) #
all of the above?
jerjapan - Saturday, November 17 2007 @ 01:08 PM EST (#176216) #
I voted other ... evidence that America is a country with serious problems.   I'm with you 100% Mylegacy.  David Zirin writes so well about this at the link below and in his latest mailing list column, basically arguing Bonds, out off the countless steroid users in pro sports, gets the full weight of the legal system because he is an outspoken BLACK man who doesn't bother making small talk with the media.  For this he faces jail?  Doesn't the US government have anything better to do?  

http://www.edgeofsports.com/2007-08-09-277/index.html




timpinder - Saturday, November 17 2007 @ 01:23 PM EST (#176218) #

"Because he is an outspoken BLACK man who doesn't bother making small talk with the media.  For this he faces jail?"

No.  He faces jail for lying to the Federal Grand Jury.

CaramonLS - Saturday, November 17 2007 @ 01:52 PM EST (#176219) #

What the heck is with this race card stuff?

Want to know why Bonds is being targetted rather than McGuire, Sosa, Palmero, or Canseco?  Because Barry Bonds holds 2 of the greatest records in Baseball.  The Single season Homerun record and the All Time Home Run record.  Oh and he is still playing the game.  Sosa is a minority, he still plays, but because he hasn't accomplished near the amount Bonds has, nor is he in any position to break any more records, he isn't being villified.  Anyone who wants to bring up race better have a damned good explaination why Sosa isn't being targetted.  He isn't white.  It is because of accomplishments.

And Anyone who wants to talk about Giambi?  Well he Apologized, and has gone much farther than Barry has with regards to "clearing his name".  If Bonds apologized a long time ago, there probably wouldn't be half of the scrutiny that there is now (but still a lot because of his accomplishments). 

Anyways, Barry might get Jail time.  Who knows.  But at the end of the day Selig doesn't have the balls to bar Barry from the Hall, nor should he, because he was a surefire HOFer before the Roids.  Just Roids turned him into the greatest player ever.  While at the end of the day, this may seem trivial, it's the law.  He should be convicted.

JustinD - Saturday, November 17 2007 @ 11:05 PM EST (#176228) #
I voted other. I really don't care. Initially I hated Bonds. Thought he was a cheater and not only that, but he was a real asterisk.  Sorry for that pun. But now, I feel bad for him. They're personally going after him and it just kinda makes me sick. I don't know if it's a race thing, I really don't think it is. I think people said, we don't like him, he was rude, lets get him. I can't believe I'm honestly saying I feel bad for him. Thats the crazy part. Cause a year ago I was very against him.
electric carrot - Sunday, November 18 2007 @ 03:19 PM EST (#176239) #
I really don't understand these arguments that bring in Blackwater, Brittany Spears, Noam Chomsky, smoking marijuana and to a lesser degree McGwire, Giambi and Canseco. And then even more puzzling to me is the argument that this is just a game etc ... First of all nobody has said that we won't see more than Bonds indicted. I'm pretty sure we'll see action on different fronts, so for the Giambi crowd, I say "hold your fire." And as for Blackwater and Brittany Spears -- the North American attention span has its problems with focusing on stuff that's actually important I admit -- but this it seems to me IS incredibly important regardless of what you think about Spears and Blackwater. And smoking Marijuana is a LOT different than LYING TO A GRAND JURY. Look, democracy basically doesn't work unless you have a baseline trust in institutions from the police, to the courts, to the media, to all levels of government. This trust is something that has been eroding steadily -- particularly in the US because nobody stands up and says THE TRUTH IS IMPORTANT and that there are consequences for not telling the truth. And the fact that it's a game makes NO DIFFERENCE to me at least in its symbolic power to set a tone for how a democracy works. I'm glad this is finally happening and I hope that we see this kind of mentality spread to other players and other institutions to the point where we can regain some of the trust that has been eroding for decades in the face of obvious corruption in nearly all facets of contemporary North American culture.
hugo - Sunday, November 18 2007 @ 06:57 PM EST (#176243) #
Under U.S. law, you can't take the 5th before a grand jury.  Unless you're the target of the grand jury indictment (which Bonds was not), you get immunity in exchange for your truthful testimony.  So you can't take the 5th, because you already have immunity from prosecution.  In exchange, though, you have to tell the truth - that's how the American justice system works - without immunity for grand jury witnesses, countless horrible criminals would get off.  This isn't (in my opinion) about steroids or whatnot.  You lie to the grand jury (which Giambi did not, he got good legal advice and heeded it, and Lord knows, I hate Giambi), you go to jail.  I understand people's arguments, as in the Martha and Scooter cases and in this case, that the underlying offense is blown out of proportion - but that's not the point .  This is how the system works - it's the same system that puts gangsters, murderers, and drug lords in jail, and without truthful testimony of grand jury witnesses in exchange for immunity, the system will break down. 
Bonds indicted! Your first reaction? | 16 comments | Create New Account
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