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We do seem to be in better spirits than around this time last year, don't we...



...amazing what having actual young players of interest and Max Scherzer can do!


With another season of Blue Jays baseball starting up tomorrow, these are the final moments for sheer blind optimism that yes, indeed... this will finally be the year our Toronto Blue Jays go 162-0. It's still technically possible and nobody can yet say otherwise! 

Anyhow, I thought I'd look at and break down five particular things I think need to happen for this Jays team, as currently constructed, to make a serious bid for a postseason appearance. For the record I don't think all five need to happen (though I think we'd gladly take it), rather I think three of the five would give them a strong chance... maybe just two if the rest of the AL East cannibalizes each other. Lets get into it.


#1. The Veteran Hitter Bounce Back 

We're talking four hitters in particular here, and I think you can guess which ones. If nearly half your everyday lineup features a run of OPS(es) like .677, .674, .638 and .598.... It doesn't really matter how many runs you're preventing because it's going to be incredibly difficult to string any kind of long sequence scoring together.

I'm fairly optimistic about two of those four, pretty nervous about another (who is by far the oldest) and have no idea what to expect from the fourth dude who is new to the organization. I'd say you can consider Alejandro Kirk's 2024 hitting work a write-off: he got a very late start to camp because of his wife's pregnancy and Kirk was significantly better in the second half of the season, his isolated slugging nearly double of that before the all-star break. As for Bo Bichette, he's a very streaky hitter we all know that, and there will be a few weeks he looks like 2024 Bo and we worry again... but it also seems completely crazy to conclude that he simply completely fell off an Olympus Mons-like cliff last year and is toast forever. Plus it's a contract year and he chopped off his glorious hair... this is serious, folks.

George Springer is (shocker) the one I'm pretty nervous about, and I clearly am not alone there (though not to the point of wanting him released after a rough spring... way way way too early for anything like that). I think that relying on Springer to be a crucial part of the offense is a big mistake, but I also am cautiously optimistic he can be useful and productive if deployed the right way. You give him a few weeks playing almost everyday to see what he has left and adjust from there... maybe he has one more year of being a slightly above average regular, or maybe he's cooked... but you have to find out. 

Andres Gimenez... no clue what to expect. I'm bracing myself for any offensive punch he provides as a complete bonus, personally. Fingers crossed batting him 4th or 5th in Spring Training was just a way to get him more at-bats and not the actual plan. If he's the 2022 version of himself, than sure! That's an MVP candidate. Probably asking a little too much from him, me thinks. I'd be happy if he's league average considering everything else he does so exceptionally well.         

Much like expecting all five of my ideas to go right, expecting all four of these players to rediscover their peak offensive thunder is a tall ask. However, I think you need at least half of them to approach it, with my imaginary money being on Kirk and Bichette doing so. Springer and Gimenez in the meantime climbing back to league average rather than bad-to-blech would also be pretty useful. Also, if Kirk gets injured for a month or two this becomes even more paramount, since I think we'd be delighted if then everyday catcher Tyler Heineman hit anywhere close to the level of these guys' subpar 2024.  


#2. The Kids Are All Right

Alan Roden makes the team! I like it, and while it's unfortunate Addison Barger did not despite being equally deserving... with the way this roster is constructed finding regular at bats for Barger too (limited to 3B/RF/DH) would've been tricky. He'll get his chance at some point, me thinks.

This basket of (mostly) older AAA position player prospects on the cusp of the big leagues is a good logjam to have, even if most of them have ceilings that top out as solid regulars or high quality bench players. Lets say three of them make considerable contributions to the 2025 team (I'm including Will Wagner in this group): now you've got a much deeper lineup 1-9 with a few guys (Roden, Wagner, say Leo Jimenez if they need another infielder) giving good quality plate appearances and getting on-base for your dangerous middle of the order guys. Or if it all goes right for Barger, another legit power hitting threat. 

I'm much higher on the guys I've already mentioned than the other AAA options, intriguing though they are. Orelvis Martinez's home run bat will force his arrival at some point, but you need to see if he can play any defensive position adequately first (23 is darn young to be a DH). I like Joey Loperfido's tools, don't love that swing (you could drive a truck through that hole). Steward Berroa would make a fantastic and fun end of the bench speedy fifth outfielder/pinch runner, if only MLB teams still had longer benches (alas). Much like Loperfido, Jonathon Clase is very intriguing and since youth is on his side you can be very patient there. 

Honestly, it's a far better situation than last year when none of these guys were either ready or even in the Blue Jays system. I think this kind of depth is going to be very important for the 2025 squad and if at least two of them can firmly establish themselves as credible big league regulars, that would be such a huge development for an organization that has been desperate for young reinforcements basically this entire half decade. 


#3. Vlad and Tony Combine For 85 Taters 

Purely an arbitrary number I thought it would be fun to play around with (and they combined for 'just' 74 last season). If Daulton Varsho were healthy you could add him and make the number a more reasonable 105 if you wanted.

You'd essentially be asking both sluggers to repeat their career high in home runs (and both have only crossed the 40 threshold once) but within the absence of points #1 and #2 happening the Blue Jays would absolutely need this, or something close, to happen. I'm not nearly as sold on this team's ability to score as the projection models are (they seem to use career averages in their calculations, which in the case of Springer and Gimenez especially is not particularly useful for where either player is currently at). 

There's a very possible outcome where Guerrero Jr. and Santander are your only considerably above-average everyday hitters, and so you'd need them to carry the bulk of the offense much like Judge and Soto did for an otherwise fairly pedestrian 2024 Yankees lineup (and yes I know Vlad and Tony are definitely no Judge or Soto). Plus, home runs are fun and the Blue Jays should hit more of them... so why not?

Also a quick note after watching quite a few Santander at-bats this spring: he definitely likes to swing, that's for sure... but his ability to just spoil pitches and foul off almost everything on two strikes is genuinely impressive and a useful skill he clearly possesses that I'd underestimated. It's also fun to watch. Justin Turner was/is good at this as well, but Turner even in his prime has never been the threat to park a mistake pitch into the seats the way Santander is. Also considering how platoon-proof he is, I'm starting to come around on his perhaps excellent fit within this Blue Jays lineup. Still think they're one big middle of the order bat short, though. 


#4. The Old Man Yells At Cloud Rotation Defies Aging One More Time

The Max Scherzer addition made me actually excited for this upcoming season. As spring showed, Mad Max is just dynamite to watch... but we all know he didn't exactly make a veteran pitching staff any younger. This is a staff with three guys (Berrios, Bassitt and Gausman) who can gobble up innings no doubt... it's the quality of that gobbling that is going to be important. You've got to hope Chris Bassitt can do a better job limiting baserunners (free passes were a 2024 problem), that Kevin Gausman can find some of that peak velocity and gather up some strikeouts again, and that Jose Berrios has another one of those seasons where a bunch of well hit balls find gloves more often than not (he is very home run prone of course). And you really need all three of these things to happen.

There is a reasonable pathway for this to happen again. Bassitt isn't your typical 36 year old pitcher, having always gotten by on guile and moxy rather than sheer physical force. Last spring training was Gausman, Interrupted... so maybe a more normal routine of ramping up helps that fastball pop a little more consistently this time around, allowing the devastating splitter to do its thing (maybe he mixes in the slider a bit more too). As for Berrios... he is still firmly in his prime (turning 31 in May) and I think you're extremely pleased if he gives you another typical quality 'middle of a good rotation' Berrios season.    

Scherzer's thumb will probably be a thing we'll be biting our nails about (pardon the imagery) all season, and whether Bowden Francis is real or not are likewise very important factors that this season depends upon. Because after those five? Yariel Rodriguez had his moments as a starter last season but his frequent nibbling of the plate (geez what's with all these mouth analogies) just won't work in any extended run as a starting pitcher. Alek Manoah is a July dream you're crossing your fingers on, Jake Bloss looked good at the end of spring but seriously needs AAA time (having barely any) and beyond that it's Eric Lauer time. I actually like Lauer as a depth signing, remembering his crafty lefty work from his Brewer days facing the Reds, and think he could play some kind of role at some point. Ideally that role isn't starting a dozen games in May/June.  

It's a concern! Could be a strength of the team like it was in 2023, or (considering the serious lack of depth) the complete undoing of this upcoming season. At least we'll know soon! (he says chewing on his finger tips... damnit, sorry).


#5. Bullpen In A China Shop

If you were a member of the 2024 Toronto bullpen and something could go wrong... it almost certainly did. Whether it be your hometown closer's elbow growling at him, your set-up guy's young child getting hit by a car (terrifying), your longtime reliable left-hander turning completely into soup, your electric-armed once top pitching prospect finally staying healthy but floundering and hittable even in a medium one inning role, your changeup magician finally having his trick revealed and having to flee the scene... not to mention an endless cast of waiver wire pickups many of whom surrendered more runs than they recorded outs. Also, far too much Zach Pop than is recommended for any healthy diet. 

Surely one of the worst bullpens I've been unfortunate enough to witness in my time following the team. I want to say 2002 had an equally bad cast of neerdowells but that team didn't come into the season thinking they had a chance... then there's the first half of 2021 which was similarly frustrating with the constant blown leads, but please let us not relive the dark days of Tyler Chatwood, Bad Hand (purposeful typo) or Rafael Dolis.

The 2025 team needed to improve their relief core. Did they? Well, it's hard to imagine they could be any worse... 

Okay okay. Jeff Hoffman should be a boost and stabilizer, both giving the Jays a potentially dominant 9th inning option with truly electric stuff (and multiple weapons beyond fastball/slider) and allowing some combination of Chad Green, Yimi Garcia and (once healthy) Erik Swanson to handle the 7th and 8th. Nick Sandlin is unique and funky: can he perhaps give you something akin to what Adam Cimber for a couple years was able to? I'd also be curious to see what Yariel Rodriguez looks like in leverage situations: simplify the arsenal and let it rip for an inning at a time. It's what he did his last season in Japan to great effect.

As Magpie mentioned in the prediction thread, this bullpen improving from the very bottom of the musky rancid barrel into just middle of the pack would be an enormous swing factor for the 2025 squad... that alone possibly adding several wins. It's a very top-heavy pen, which is concerning: pitchers by their nature get hurt and the likes of Jacob Barnes taking the mound late in a tight game... not comforting. They'll need good health to reach even that league average acceptable level, and also for everything that could possibly go wrong to not happen again, obviously. One imagines if they're in the race come trade deadline time, this will be an area they almost certainly look to add to.

---

There you have it. Five crucial factors for your 2025 Toronto Blue Jays. Personally, I like the wager on the young guys with the modest bullpen improvement (#2 and #5), while one of the veteran hitters rebounds with a near all-star season. Call it two and a half of these five factors coming true if you want.

As for an actual prediction... my gut is saying 86-76, enough to have them smelling a wild card chase in September but depending on about eight other teams, 50/50 or less they actually make it in. Winning the division isn't out of the question either I suppose, with the considerable woes the other AL East teams are feeling... but now you're talking a season where very little goes wrong for the Jays. Hey, maybe we're due for one of those. 

Beyond that wishful thinking, I'll say the starting rotation becomes an issue for a good chunk of the season and the lineup (despite the young guys contributing) isn't quite deep enough to go on a serious run and truly separate the team from the many other creamy WC contenders. However, because it's spring and I'm feeling cheery, this will all still be a lot more fun than the past couple years even with all the looming free agency clouds.                                                         

Lets play ball already.

Five Or Dive: What Needs To Go Right For the 2025 Blue Jays | 12 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Magpie - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#457722) #
In the prediction thread, I noted the remarkable gap between the work of the 2024 Jays' starting pitchers (3.95 ERA) and their relievers (4.82 ERA). Of the 684 AL bullpens that the world has seen since 1977, that is the 19th biggest negative spread. Normally, of course, a team's relief pitchers post a better ERA than the starters.

The worst ever? A rather famous pitching staff, whose starting pitchers had an ERA of 3.20, while the relievers were an unsightly 5.22. This would explain why Billy Martin made those young Oakland starters throw 94 Complete Games in 1980, something that was rather shocking even then. The Oakland relievers worked just 210 IP. Back in 1980, the average AL bullpen worked about 420 IP, and these days your average bullpen generally gets right around 600 IP.

Must be time for baseball. I'm looking up silly stuff on bb-ref.
Nigel - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#457730) #
Well done Eephus.

Last year the pitching, writ large (starters and relievers), was bad. Just how bad was in part masked by just how good the team defence was/is. As Magpie notes, its almost impossible to imagine the bullpen being worse (although it still looks pretty weak on paper), if only by virtue of cycling through fungible arms. Its harder to imagine that an aging set of starters will be much better (or as healthy) and it at risk of being worse. There isn't much help on that front in the high minors. Sooooo, I think for this to all go right they are going to need to outhit their offensive expectations. That isn't impossible.
GabrielSyme - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#457731) #
I'd add another question (in lieu of the homers question perhaps): Will team defence continue to be superlative?

This is partly a question of health, but also whether the guys who have been right at the top of their peer group (Varsho, Gimenez, Kirk) see any regression; and then there's lots of variability in Vlad and Bo and uncertainty about how younger players like Roden and Wagner will perform wherever they are slotted in. It's hard to see the team being below-average on defence, but getting close to last year's excellence will be important if the team is to make a run to the postseason.
uglyone - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#457733) #
The one big worry for me is the Starting Rotation's health. Even if they're very healthy i still worry about Francis imploding, and see a lack of true top-end options, so even healthy i see maybe a decent rotation. But if they run into signiciant injuries it could get scary pretty fast.

The bullpen seems fine to me - I think we forget just how nuts it was that the backend trio Romano/Mayza/Swanson just completely imploded right from the start last year. I know bullpens are variable and all but that was some nasty lucky imo.


Offensively i'm actually feeling pretty good about them. I think we kinda forget just how many PA were wasted last year on absolute incompetent hitting, and I think we start this year with much better depth within the mlb roster and in AAA which should prevent us from wasting so many PA again. I don't even really think we need to see significant upgrades from the likes of Kirk and Springer, who were fine average hitters last year tbh. It's the black holes that we need to upgrade.

* Schneider 454pa, 80wrc+
* Bichette 336pa, 71wrc+
* Barger 225pa, 70wrc+
* Kiermaier 217pa, 53wrc+
* Loperfido 144pa, 61wrc+

With alternatives like Wagner, Roden, Lukes on the roster already to start, and an AAA roster pretty full with potential options, I just don't see us being forced to waste this many PA this year on guys who aren't hitting at even an acceptable bench level.

Bichette would seem to be one guy who we could be forced to play even if he struggles again, but even then given Jimnenez' and Clement's solid track record, and given Bo's contract situation, I'm not sure we'd be absolutely stuck there either. Gimenez is a risk of forced playing time too but again we have quality alternatives there.

Maybe the biggest risk on the squad is Kirk - not because of performance, but only the risk that he gets injured. Because we don't have anything to replace him with and an injury to him would absolutely force us to waste a ton of PA on useless offense.


And of course, we need Vladdy to be vladdy. He doesn't have to be as good as last year but he has to be a legit high end bat again or else we're in trouble.

uglyone - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#457734) #
That's a good point about defense, Gabriel.

Would seem to me we have 3 superlative defensive players likely to play the majority of games - Varsho, Gimenez, Kirk.

The rest of the slots look pretty iffy defensively, tho, especially if Wagner is starting 3B over Clement.
uglyone - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#457735) #

Not sure why they think Straw is any better against lefties than righties, but at least it seems like they will limit him to lefties only. TBH it's probably best to put Springer in CF to start.
uglyone - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#457736) #
sorry the image i tried to post there was this:

Glevin - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#457739) #
I also most worried about starting pitching especially in first half. It feels like by second half, Jays might have more depth but right now, it's pretty shallow. Of course, Most teams don't have great pitching depth which is why Carlos Carrasco is in the rotation for the Yankees.
John Northey - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#457740) #
To win they need their players to play to their potential. Not the 90% level but the 50-60% level plus stay healthy. Do that and the rest should work out. Odds are someone will perform at the 90% level, someone else at the 10% level as it happens every year. Right now I'd guess the 90% guy will be Roden - high hopes for the kid. The 10% much harder - Springer sadly looks possible, but there is a nagging feeling that Green will collapse this year - hopefully I'm way off on that.
John Northey - Wednesday, March 26 2025 @ 11:26 PM EDT (#457741) #
To get an idea here are the hitters and their 20th and 80th percentile OPS+ and WAR from FG. I included avg/OBP/Slg for Vlad to show the spread.
  • Vlad: 127 267/348/455 - 165 317/399/554; 2.5 - 5.5
  • Andrés Giménez: 88 - 123; 2.5 - 5.1
  • Alejandro Kirk: 86 - 126; 2 - 4
  • Bo Bichette: 92 - 133; 1.4 - 4.1
  • Daulton Varsho: 83 - 121; 1.3 - 3.8
  • Anthony Santander: 98 - 139; 0.7 - 3.8
  • Will Wagner: 89 - 129; 0.9 - 3
  • Davis Schneider: 86 - 125; 0.8 - 3.1
  • Alan Roden: 87 - 124; 0.4 - 2.7
  • Ernie Clement: 70 - 112; 0.4 - 2.5
  • George Springer: 83 - 119; 0.3 - 2.7
  • Nathan Lukes: 82 - 123; 0.4 - 2.2
  • Myles Straw: 59 - 93; 0.1 - 2.1
  • Tyler Heineman: 52 - 90; 0.1 - 1.1
  • -----didn't make the team but notable (either important potential or I just like to see)-----
  • Addison Barger: 85 - 123; 0.6 - 2.8
  • Charles McAdoo: 80 - 117; 0.6 - 2.8
  • Joey Loperfido: 77 - 119; 0.1 - 2.5
  • Leo Jiménez: 80 - 114; 0.8 - 2.5
  • Jonatan Clase: 68 - 102; 0.3 - 2.5
  • Michael Stefanic: 88 - 120; 0.8 - 2.4
  • RJ Schreck: 76 - 114; -0.3 - 1.9
  • Josh Kasevich: 63 - 97; -0.3 - 1.9
  • Steward Berroa: 68 - 105; -0.1 - 1.7
  • Ali Sánchez: 49 - 90; -0.2 - 1.3
  • Orelvis Martinez: 69 - 111; -0.8 - 1.4
  • Riley Tirotta: 65 - 105; -1 - 1
  • Devonte Brown: 53 - 94; -1 - 1
  • Dasan Brown: 57 - 89; -0.8 - 1
  • Damiano Palmegiani: 61 - 97; -1.4 - 0.9
  • Jay Harry: 49 - 87; -1.2 - 0.9
  • Cade Doughty: 61 - 96; -0.8 - 0.5
  • Adrian Pinto: 52 - 94; -0.2 - 0.5
  • Peyton Williams: 64 - 102; -1.1 - 0.6
  • Phil Clarke: 59 - 98; -0.9 - 0.5
  • Jacob Sharp: 47 - 88; -1 - 0.5
  • Michael Turconi: 44 - 78; -1.3 - 0.3
  • Will Robertson: 62 - 99; -1.4 - 0.5
  • Joshua Rivera: 28 - 67; -1.3 - 0.3
  • Brennan Orf: 52 - 94; -1.1 - 0.1
  • Rainer Nunez: 63 - 100; -1.8 - 0.4
  • Cutter Coffey: 37 - 82; -2 - 0.3
Some big spreads of course. Worst case WAR (everyone at 20%) would be 13.8, best case (80%) 45.7 - reality will be somewhere inbetween. Last year the Dodgers had the best WAR from offense at 33.8, Yankees tops in AL at 33.6. Worst was the White Sox who somehow managed a -6.3 from their hitting/fielding. Jays worst ever was 1981 -1.9 (ouch), best 2015 36.7, next best was 2022 at 33.5 (which would shock most I'm sure), no other Jay team has cracked 30. Not 1992/3, not the '85 team that won 99, not the 97 team that was oh so close. In the history of the Jays (1977-2024) the best is Seattle 2001 44.4 with just 3 teams cracking 40 (Seattle 01, Houston '19, Atlanta '23). Worst was Oakland 1979 (-9.7) with Atlanta 1977 at -6.6, yes both worse than the White Sox of last year. WOW. 10 others were negative as well, but none at -5 or worse, so those 3 really stand out.

For the Jays to make the playoffs getting 30 WAR from their hitters isn't a must, but is quite important. It won't be easy, but it is possible without getting superhuman seasons from anyone. Fingers crossed.
Kelekin - Thursday, March 27 2025 @ 12:59 AM EDT (#457742) #
That quote UO posted is a reminder of one of the glaring issues with Schneider's lineup and game construction management - his obsession with platoon advantages even when it's not an advantage. Straw has a .589 career OPS against LHP - 50 points worse than vs RHP. I get that Roden and Lukes are lefties, but just put Springer in CF, Santander in RF, and Schneider in LF instead then. I like the dude but this has been a common problem during his tenure.
Michael - Thursday, March 27 2025 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#457779) #
"For the Jays to make the playoffs getting 30 WAR from their hitters isn't a must, but is quite important. It won't be easy, but it is possible without getting superhuman seasons from anyone. Fingers crossed."

If you do the 50% projections for everyone on offense (and defense) from fangraphs you get 32.5 led by 4 players in the 4's and 3 in the 2's with Vlad 4.8, Gimenez 4.2, Kirk 4.1, Bo 4.0, Santander 2.9, Varsho 2.7, Springer 2.0. Wagner, Clement, and Roden are the only others to crack 1.0. Those numbers don't seem incredibly unreasonable and you could certainly see some upside risk (as well as some obvious downside risk) from those projections.
Five Or Dive: What Needs To Go Right For the 2025 Blue Jays | 12 comments | Create New Account
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