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Well, the old thread is over 400 now, as our emotions get played with yet again.


Current status...
  • Roki Sasaki still debating who to sign with - rumors were he was to decide on the 16th but he hasn't yet. Saw online Glasnow saying Sasaki really liked Toronto (and really liked LA). Lord knows what is going to happen.
  • Alex Bregman - lots of sites still keep putting him with the Jays but it doesn't look likely - he wants crazy years and dollars, Jays learned an expensive lesson with Springer on doing that (hopefully)
  • Anthony Santander - the guy seems to be limited but doesn't want to sign here. Few rumors of others chasing him, but firm reports on the Jays offering a contract and his immediately after that saying he'll take a short term deal. Sigh.
  • Pete Alonso - latest is the Jays putting him at 1B with Vlad at 3B.  Mets appear out of the running after offering him a few options that he didn't like.
  • Jack Flaherty - seems he isn't getting much traction this winter. Not sure why, his fastball velocity has been nearly identical the past 3 years, but his HR/fly ball has gotten worse, GB% got a bit worse last year but within reasonable range, his K/9 was over 10 (highest since 2020), BB/9 2.11 (lowest ever). Unless there is an injury I don't see why he is still on the market. Should Sasaki stay out west he'd be a good one for the Jays to chase down imo.
  • Jurickson Profar - looks like a very good fit in LF if Santander won't come, but for 7 seasons he has alternated good/bad years making 2025 scheduled for another bad one - weird luck or something else?
  • 2025 ZiPS Projections are out (as others have mentioned previously) with the Jays showing as 2+ WAR (ML regular) at all but DH and RF.  No idea how LF gets to 2.0 with Loperfido-Schneider-Lukes sharing it, but that is what they have. Rotation has 4 at 2+ (Gausman-Berrios-Bassitt-Francis) with Rodriguez at 1.6 and Bloss 0.6 sharing the 5 hole.  Again, not bad.  The pen a collective 3.2 which is far better than last years negative WAR result (ugh). This team could easily surprise and is FAR better than anything the AL Central has (out of 9 regulars the  ChiSox have 1 at 2 WAR (0 starters at 2, pen in the negatives), Cleveland 4, Detroit 3, Minnesota 5, KC unknown (not done yet) vs the Jays with 8.  Of course, we are stuck in the AL East with Baltimore 7, Boston 8, New York Yankees 6.  No report for the Rays yet.
  • IFA time but the Jays won't sign anyone of note until Sasaki makes up his mind.  Jays linked to a few really good ones - Crisopher Polanco (SS 45 FV, top 10 talent), Juan Sanchez (SS 40 FV), probably others too (saw some on other sites)
  • Vladimir Guerrero Jr. - might be playing 3B (if Alonso signs), might be at 1B/DH otherwise. Might be signing a long term deal, might be traded to the Mets for 3+ prospects. The rumors are nutty here. All we can say for certain is the Jays offered him $340 mil and he rejected it. He will be a free agent post 2025 if he doesn't sign an extension - he gave a deadline of Spring Training day one (February 17th I think).
Phew. Probably more out there, but that gives a decent summary of what is going on.  Odds are this will be out of date soon, but given how much we're all talking we really needed a new thread to do so on.
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pooks137 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:34 AM EST (#455491) #
There was a lot of talk at the trade deadline and particularly at the end of the season last year that a lot of the new faces acquired shouldn't get too comfortable as it was proposed that a number of them would be flipped in the offseason to acquire MLB talent to fill other holes on the roster. Or simply to consolidate a crowded depth chart at some positions and clean up the 40-man.

That really hasn't come to pass 2/3 of the way through the offseason.

Horwitz was flipped to Cleveland in a surprising salary dump trade for Gimenez that no one saw coming. But Horwitz was actually an in-house overage prospect who came up late in the spring, tore the cover off the ball for 4-6 weeks, then went stone cold like a lot of the rest of vets and new faces.

I haven't seen that much lamenting over Horwitz' loss. Likely because of so much preoccupation over the uncertainty over Vlad. And the fact that Horwitz was a league average type without a position given the hope to sign Guerrero into perpetuity.

But what of the Joey Loperfidos, the Will Wagners, the Nathan Lukes (though another internal guy), the bevy of mid-to-low Top 30 prospects that the Jays acquired.

Why haven't we seen more roster churning on the margins for a team that for all intents and purposes is all-in for Vlad and Bo's walk year?

Are the Jays playing both sides, trying to sneak into the playoffs while also hording marginal assets to retool in 2026 when both stars may be gone? Is the team too close to their budget ceiling that they can't exchange youth for pricier contracts? Are they keeping their powder dry with lots of budget room allocated for the few straggler FAs out there and Vlad's potential extension?

Is the league so unimpressed with the pool of prospects they acquired last year by purging all the walk-year veterans that the FO has been unable to convert anything but Horwitz into a 2025 MLB asset?

Petey Baseball - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 03:18 AM EST (#455492) #
I think it’s a bit of both.
I wouldn’t rule out them going the trade route for pitching and using a couple of those guys acquired at the deadline last summer in a package if the Sasaki thing doesn’t work out. Addison Barger wasn’t part of that, but showed some promise in the bigs last year, he could also be used. I keep coming back to Steven Matz, whom the Jays are familiar with as a possible stopgap. He’s a free agent after next year and needs to prove himself to get another contract in the bigs last year. Ross Atkins has dealt with St Louis a lot in his tenure. It’s an injury risk but the upside is a good mid rotation starter with no commitment and wouldn’t cost much in trade.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:02 AM EST (#455493) #
The money they have is to go after free agents.
The trade potential is more along the line of trading 2 guys for 1 to fill a position of need.
Good young starters are at a premium, so out of reach. 
Horwitz would have been the DH and the thought was to upgrade there with whoever is available on the market.
For now, that's Santander.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:14 AM EST (#455494) #
The projection for Profar isn't good and he's not the guy I want hitting behind Vlad. Not at all.
Bregman says he's not interested in a short contract. I think the best offer he has is from Detroit but it's not as good as what he was offered by Houston. So he pouts.
Santander is willing to take a short contract with higher AAV but who wants to lose a draft pick to sign him for a single year at 25M or more?
Chapman signed for a short contract that paid him 18M in 24 and he turned that into 6 more years at 25M but he did that with a 7WAR season.
Santander's best year is 3WAR.
It seems to be like the Encarnation situation. The Jays have the best offer out and don't want to bid against themselves. So we wait.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:42 AM EST (#455495) #
I think some marginal prospects close to majors will likely be traded but doesn't really make sense at this point unless something amazing presents itself. Free agent avenue is still wide open and trading players just to trade them doesn't make sense.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:52 AM EST (#455496) #
Apparently, Padres are out on Sasaki. They will start signing their IFAs today. This is excruciating!!!!
Marc Hulet - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:56 AM EST (#455497) #
Francys Romero and Will Sammon are decent media types so it does appear to be down to LAD (and TOR).
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:17 AM EST (#455498) #
Oh man. The burden. Thanks for the updates I didnt see any. Fingers crossed!
Marc Hulet - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:20 AM EST (#455499) #
I will say this, though. Sasaki has apparently been in LA since visiting SD/LAD... his agent has an office there. But, if the Padres are convinced enough that they're out - and are signing their international FAs today, then Sasaki has probably already had and passed a physical with his new team. Toronto does their physicals in Dunedin... The Dodgers do them in LA.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:21 AM EST (#455500) #
Crazy stuff. I had no hope at the start but now it is 50-50. The question is does he want to be a small part of a monster or a bigger part of something that could be his own.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:26 AM EST (#455501) #
Whoa. Another Ohtani-type situation. This is stressful and exciting!
Kelekin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:45 AM EST (#455502) #
The trick is to never get your hopes up!

I think it was always the Dodgers, just like with Ohtani.

But hey, at least the media is getting lots of clicks!
johnny was - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:51 AM EST (#455503) #
For the Dodgers, adding Sasaki is like putting another Lambo in the warehouse. For the Jays, it's existential when the team is at a crossroads and the GM is fighting for his job. This take probably won't age well, but I'm starting to wonder if we might just win this one.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:57 AM EST (#455504) #
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:00 AM EST (#455505) #
Bregman would be a much better signing than Alonso or Santander imo.

He's actually one of the very few position players available this offseason who i'd be happy to pay for.
Eephus - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:01 AM EST (#455506) #
"Why would they come to our concert just to boo us?"
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:01 AM EST (#455507) #
To quote from The Hold Steady: Stay Positive.
ISLAND BOY - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:08 AM EST (#455508) #
All signs point to the Dodgers. How often do we have to be the Charlie Brown of MLB ?
braden - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:08 AM EST (#455509) #
It's obviously the Dodgers, right? A couple of their IFA commits have already defected, they're trying to trade for more room, and they're the Dodgers. I want this as much as anybody but all signs are pointing that way.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:13 AM EST (#455510) #
"Bregman would be a much better signing than Alonso or Santander imo."

Agreed. Higher ceiling and higher floor and fits the team well. Steamer has Bregman at 4.1 WAR for next season and Alonso and Santander at 2.4 WAR. It's a significant difference.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:18 AM EST (#455511) #
At this point, if I had to guess, I would say Dodgers for the reasons mentioned. It could well be that the Blue Jays are the backup in case there are any late-breaking problems in closing the deal with LA.

But — you never know.

Emily Dickinson: “‘Hope’ is the thing with feathers.” Blue Jays feathers, we hope.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:34 AM EST (#455512) #
Dodgers are favourites but lets give credit to Toronto for creating an organization that would be a powerhouse with Ohtani, Sasaki and possibly others in a different universe without the Dodgers.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:51 AM EST (#455513) #
Really a bit spooky to have zero posts from reputable sources on the interwebs for what, the past 48 hours at least? I suppose they all learned a hard lesson from JP Morosi.
85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:06 AM EST (#455514) #
No news about the jays signing their committed prospects - good news - would be a double whammy if the jays prospective prospects sign elsewhere and then Sasaki goes to the dodgers. Though given this FO record with IFA (sans Cuba), it's probably much ado about nothing.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:13 AM EST (#455515) #
don't read the tea leaves.

do not read them.

Hearing the Blue Jays are working to acquire additional international bonus pool room as they await Roki Sasaki’s decision. Doesn’t mean a decision has been made. To be expected from all finalists for the right-hander, so they’re ready for all possibilities.

— Shi Davidi (@ShiDavidi) January 17, 2025
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:16 AM EST (#455516) #
What if it’s Japanese tea — is that allowed?
Marlow - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:16 AM EST (#455517) #
Is this tweet the 2025 version of the airplane tweet from last winter?
ISLAND BOY - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:25 AM EST (#455519) #
Shi Davidi got his information from the guy who is on Shark Tank.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:26 AM EST (#455520) #
Nah, a tweet saying Sasaki is on his way, or that the Jays have an 8 PM media notice up would be more comparable. I keep going to MLBTR to see if anything new has happened, then checking Twitter due to so many MLB rumor mongers still being there (even though I'm trying to avoid it, I like Blue Sky far more).
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:33 AM EST (#455521) #
Feels like our Blue Jays fandom for the next 5+ years is teetering on the brink. Coulld go either way
braden - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:34 AM EST (#455522) #
Jays just acquired Int'l Pool $ from Cleveland per Blake Murphy
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:36 AM EST (#455523) #
Jays received $2m in international pool money in exchange for eating Myles Straw's contract ($6.5 x 2yrs, plus buyout).

So it wasn't cheap to get that pool money.
braden - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:37 AM EST (#455524) #
And they're eating ~$14M of Myles Straw's contract to get it. That....sorta seems significant?
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:37 AM EST (#455525) #
Its Dodgers.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:39 AM EST (#455526) #
we were THIS close!
Paul D - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:42 AM EST (#455527) #
Who's reporting the deal?
Marlow - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:43 AM EST (#455528) #
The Jays could either scoop up some of the Dodgers' IFAs or negotiate a trade with the Dodgers for someone off their 40 man roster.
SK in NJ - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:47 AM EST (#455529) #
Taking Straw’s contract for international money is incredibly risky unless Sasaki has given them some indication that he’s coming over. That’s a lot of money to eat up on a bad player if it’s a Hail Mary attempt.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:47 AM EST (#455530) #
Fake account. Ignore...
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:51 AM EST (#455531) #
Well, that makes things more interesting. $2 mil of cap space and it is done without the Dodgers officially doing anything yet. Straw is, well, a typical Atkins guy - insanely good defense, lifetime 76 OPS+. He has played a bit at SS and 2B as well as all 3 OF positions, but clearly is most useful in CF. So he will cover for Varsho while he is hurt, will they move Varsho to LF again or move this guy to LF when Varsho is healthy? Guess we'll see.

$2 mil puts the Jays IFA money at $8,261,600, plus anything else they can get. Dodgers max out at $8,223,920 if they get everything they possible can. Jays can potentially get to $10,018,560. So the Jays now can bid more than the Dodgers can even without any more trades. Another trade though and the Jays can shatter the Dodgers limit. So if cash is any factor the Jays now have the advantage.
Joe - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:54 AM EST (#455532) #
That’s a lot of money to eat up on a bad player if it’s a Hail Mary attempt.
On the other hand, if the Dodgers get Sasaki, there will be a bunch of IFAs looking for a new home.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:57 AM EST (#455533) #
I thought you could only accumulate 250k in extra intl cap space per trade.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:57 AM EST (#455534) #
Oh, the Rays ZiPS data is up now and they have 6 2 WAR regulars, 3 sub 2's (LF/CF/DH), 4 starters 2+ (2 in the 3+ area) and a decent 3.4 pen. On the surface the Jays are in better shape, and if this Sasaki stuff works out in a lot better shape. It'll be interesting to see how playing in the Yankees spring training park affects them - it isn't like they ever had many fans in the first place, maybe this way they'll get sellouts.
Marlow - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:59 AM EST (#455535) #
"I thought you could only accumulate 250k in extra intl cap space per trade."

It is in increments of 250k. i.e. 250, 500, 750, etc.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:00 PM EST (#455536) #
"I thought you could only accumulate 250k in extra intl cap space per trade"

It has to be in increments of 250K so 250/500/750, etc...can't be 373K or anything. This move tells me Jays think they have a shot and it's worth it to go all in for it. Straw's contract is terrible (not in a major way, just useless player for $13M) you get Sasaki, it doesn't matter at all.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:01 PM EST (#455537) #
"Cleveland is covering $3.75 million of the remaining $15.5 million owed to Myles Straw"

A little relief I guess but contract still terrible. Go get Sasaki!
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:04 PM EST (#455538) #
Straw actually isn't useless - he was a 2-3 WAR player in 21 and 22. He just is a pure glove guy who has value even with a 78 OPS+. Poor Lukes though - this pretty much locks in that he won't get his shot in 2025 as Straw will be the backup OF now. High end defense, 20-30 SB speed. Ideal for a backup really and at under $7 mil per year not a terrible deal. If he can get up to a 100 OPS+ he'd be very valuable (unlikely). For Cleveland that is too much for a backup, for the Jays with a $200+ million payroll it is a 'so what'.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:06 PM EST (#455539) #

Cleveland is covering $3.75 million of the remaining $15.5 million owed to Myles Straw, source tells me & @ShiDavidi.

Also worth noting: Straw's money counts towards the Blue Jays' CBT calculations regardless of whether he's on their 40-man.

— Ben Nicholson-Smith (@bnicholsonsmith) January 17, 2025

needless to say, this would be a very bad move if they don't land Roki.
Marc Hulet - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:09 PM EST (#455540) #
Even with $1M off each year (and cash to cover the buyout), that's a lot of cash for an OF with a 72 wRC+ in AAA last year. With implications to the CBT, you'd have to think the Jays were pretty darn confident something was happening... especially with the Dodgers not yet making any trades.

For what it's worth, I've also seen that Cristopher Polanco was informed that the Jays won't be signing him and he's met with other teams. However the source is not necessarily credible. More just curious smoke than anything.
braden - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:10 PM EST (#455541) #
If Sasaki choose LA,the front office will get roasted for again coming in second, and for the Straw trade but I have to give them credit for doing everything they should do to acquire superstars/uber-prospects.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:14 PM EST (#455542) #

One thing the Blue Jays can do that the Dodgers can't is offer Sasaki a higher signing bonus https://t.co/N4NGunnt5g

— Brandon Wile (@Brandon_N_Wile) January 17, 2025
Spifficus - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:36 PM EST (#455543) #
If you assume Straw's nominal value is about $2m - hey, with Varsho's surgery, he does have a bit of an opening - that probably puts the ratio to buy the IFA dollars at 5:1 (6:1 if you put no value on Straw). I wonder how that compares with previous year trades. Also, I'm wondering if any of the other teams affected by the RSN bankruptcy (e.g. Minnesota) has any IFA money they want to use for some savings. Christian Vazquez or Chris Paddack might make useful targets, for example. Of course, my inclination towards pessimism also has me wondering what happens if-when the Dodgers sign Sasaki. If they're still out there, would the arranged signees honor their previous agreements, or would you have to enter a bidding war for them?

I'm also wondering if I've described something as indescribable, haven't I already described it? These are just some of the things I ponder on a Friday afternoon winding down a wintery work-week.
Ryan Day - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:53 PM EST (#455544) #
Myles Straw will be great for those of us who enjoyed watching Bradley Zimmer, but wished he could be paid more money.
Marlow - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:54 PM EST (#455545) #
With the acquisition of Straw, does that put the Blue Jays over the first CBT tax bracket? Do they lose money from their IFA pool now?
Nigel - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:56 PM EST (#455546) #
Straw is entirely on brand for this roster.
bpoz - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 12:58 PM EST (#455547) #
IMO this off season had a lot of complaints as follows:

1) Does anyone know what this FO is doing? This is fair because they told us nothing.

2) No Vlad extension and no FA signings except Yimi and Hoffman. True and a fair enough complaint.

3) The trades & FA signings surprised everyone. I was not surprised by the Yimi signing. To analyze/evaluate the activities. The pen has been improved and so has the team D. But more O is definitely needed.

I am no longer concerned that these done deals have broken through the Luxury tax level. There does seem to be a plan.

The plan could be V good if R Sasaki signs with us because our pitching should be vastly improved and Bassitt can be traded without hurting the rotation. I think M Straw has good D value and hopefully has not put us above the luxury tax. The extra Int'l money helps sign Sasaki. If he does not sign then we can sign our own Int'l prospects and add LAD prospects.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:11 PM EST (#455548) #
The IFA pool is set for this year, with the Jays able to add but cannot have it shrunk unless they trade it away. Next winters will be affected should they be over the CBT.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:22 PM EST (#455549) #
In fantasy baseball, Bregman would be great.
In real baseball, he's a 4 WAR player who has always been surrounded by great left bats and he's a pull hitter in a ballpark with a box in left field that pull hitters can hit into.
When the Jays signed Springer he was a 6 WAR player about to turn 31.
That's the same age Bregman will be and the last time he was worth 5 WAR was in 2019.
The Jays already got 3.4 War out of clement and he's not blocking a prospect from hitting his way to third base.

Santander in LF is a 3 WAR improvement from last year. Bregman at 3B is less than 1 WAR and several years of negative value.
vw_fan17 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:25 PM EST (#455550) #
I totally agree with the idea of letting Clement play. Have Vlad as a backup plan if Clement totally falls apart? Isn't he trying to play more 3B anyway?

Spend that money on true upgrades, not "replace a player who was good with one who was better in the past, but is now older and will cost 3x as much and will only bring marginal upgrades".

I wonder if Springer is strongly advocating for Bregman?
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:25 PM EST (#455551) #
"In fantasy baseball, Bregman would be great.
In real baseball, he's a 4 WAR player who has always been surrounded by great left bats and he's a pull hitter in a ballpark with a box in left field that pull hitters can hit into."

He has a career 137 WRC+ at home and 132 on the road. He isn't a product of his home park. I don't think Bregman will be a superstar for years or anything but he's a much better player than Alonso or Santander.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:28 PM EST (#455552) #
Love Clement and everything, especially at his price point, but going with him as your starting 3B almost certainly locks a below average hitter into your starting lineup fulltime.

Whereas we have a number of OF options that could potentially give us above average hitting. Heck, Clement could probably play a decent enough OF.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:32 PM EST (#455553) #
"I totally agree with the idea of letting Clement play. Have Vlad as a backup plan if Clement totally falls apart? Isn't he trying to play more 3B anyway?"

Steamer has Clement as 1.5 WAR and Bregman at 4 WAR. That is an upgrade of 2.5 WAR which is massive. I like Clement, Seems like a great guy but I think he is a 90-95 WRC+ with good to very good defense kind of guy. That's not a guy I want starting at 3B for a team competing. Great as a utility guy (although Jimenez certainly has more upside) but easy place for Jays to upgrade.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:42 PM EST (#455554) #
What the FO does is pay but without overpaying.
The previous FOs were not spending at all. This FO is going over the luxury tax.  
Thanks to Boras, free agents can wait forever if they don't get what they want.
That wouldn't change with a different FO.

Vlad has always had demands in excess of his valuation.
The biggest contracts for a 1B are Freddie Freeman 6/162M and Matt Olson's 8/168M.
Christian Walker signed 3/60M with Houston. Alonso is still unsigned.
They offered Vlad over 300M but he wants close to 500M.
The Yankees missed on Soto but spread the money on improving several positions.
That's the option if the Mets want to overpay Vlad.


uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:53 PM EST (#455555) #
if we average Steamer and Zips wRC+/OPS+

* Bregman 122
* Santander 119


Jays with Bregman

* 1B Guerrero 151
* 3B Bregman 122
* SS Bichette 115
* C Kirk 113
* RF Springer 106
* 2B Giminez 105
* CF Varsho 101
* DH Wagner 114 / Roden 108 / Schneider 105 / Lukes 105 / Barger 104 / Loperfido 90
* LF Roden 108 / Schneider 105 / Lukes 105 / Barger 104 / Loperfido 90

* IF Clement 97 / Jimenez 99 / Stefanic 108



Jays with Santander

* 1B Guerrero 151
* LF/DH Santander 118
* SS Bichette 115
* C Kirk 113
* RF Springer 106
* 2B Giminez 105
* CF Varsho 101
* 3B Clement 97
* DH/LF Wagner 114 / Roden 108 / Schneider 105 / Lukes 105 / Barger 104 / Loperfido 90

* IF Jimenez 99 / Stefanic 108 / Kasevich 83



So likely not as good a lineup offensively with Santander, and probably worse defensively as well.
85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 01:57 PM EST (#455556) #
Of course, projections are not facts - How many projections had Clement being as productive as he was last year?
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:02 PM EST (#455557) #
kinda all of them tbh.

for example, Zips had him at 95ops+ last year.

he finished at 95ops+.


85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:08 PM EST (#455558) #
I can counter with how many predicted a 3.4 WAR (baseball reference) - It's all playing around with stats. - I'm comfortable with Clement @ 3B at his price than paying Bregman especially the years he wants.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:08 PM EST (#455559) #
There is another option - Vlad to 3B, sign Alonso for 1B, give both lots of DH time. Wagner could be the DH vs most RHP, vs LHP you put Clement in at 3B and decide who to DH between Vlad & Alonso. Not perfect, but not bad either.

Alonso projected at 125 wRC+ (Steamer), or 126 OPS+ (ZiPS). So that could work - would be a bit scary on defense but this team has more than enough 'wow' on defense to sacrifice 3B defense. Plus Clement is a near GG 3B (finalist last year) so he easily covers when needed (Berrios starting for example, or vs a RH hitting team that tends to pull a lot of ground balls).

2025 will be interesting. Sasaki or not.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:10 PM EST (#455560) #
ZIPS doesn't factor in hitting in an all right bat lineup with the ump calling strikes into the opposite hitter box.

Bregman just had a 118 OPS+ and Santander a 134.
Bregman is older, why would he decline less?
It seems the projection relies too much on data from before 2020.
Bregman is not going to play like he's 25.
85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:13 PM EST (#455561) #
Shapiro/Atkins cleaning up Cleveland mistakes - they must have intel on them.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:16 PM EST (#455562) #
I don't even know how projections even try to project defensive value for guys with very limited mlb playing time like Clement tbh. I don't even really look at those parts of the projections - I do care about the offensive projections for sure, and then try to factor in the consensus on the player's defensive ability on top of that. I'm not even sure that Clement's partial season defensive war last year is reliable, tbh.

But offensively, Clement's performance was no surprise, and it was projected.


I'm also "fine" with Clement at 3B, but it's still true that we're likely locking ourselves into a below average bat playing fulltime.

uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:21 PM EST (#455563) #
Bregman's about 7 months older than Santander. I don't think age is an issue in the comparison tbh.

Bregman's career 135wrc+ is better than Santander's career year 129 last year. Last year is the first year in their careers when Santander has ever been the better hitter.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:23 PM EST (#455564) #
"Shapiro/Atkins cleaning up Cleveland mistakes - they must have intel on them."

Definitely the people that used to work for Shapiro have intel on him and are able to force him to clean up their messes. It has nothing to do with a large market team taking advantage of a smaller market team to try to improve themselves.
bpoz - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 02:50 PM EST (#455565) #
Nice fairly intelligent questions and comments. 2 important questions still left unanswered is where are we concerning the luxury tax and the Vlad extension situation. Lots of off season left.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 03:52 PM EST (#455566) #
With the luxury tax the Jays are on the edge of it right now. Pre-Straw they were at $234,854,239, $6,145,761 of space left. Straw is a $5 mil hit (Cot's) less $1 mil paid by Cleveland so the Jays are close but not over yet, emphasis on yet. Another signing and they are very clearly over, $20 mil to the next bracket, $20 mil more to the one after that, etc. Basically they aren't worried about going over if they can contend. If they cannot then expect some trades of guys like Bassitt who are at the end of their contracts.
scottt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 04:50 PM EST (#455567) #
year Bregman Santander
2020 117 135 (OPS+)
2021 113 94
2022 133 120
2023 124 121
2024 118 134
Santander had a much better 2020.
Santander is a natural low ball hitter who eventually figured out how to hit the high fastball.
So his early numbers aren't as good.
Bregman is showing a lot of decline over his early career.

In the end, Santander is a switch hitter who plays a position of need and requires a shorter contract than Bregman.
Bregman has a good chance of ending in Boston with Devers moving to first.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 05:21 PM EST (#455568) #
Santander had 165pa in 2020.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 05:24 PM EST (#455569) #
There is no better without qualifications.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 05:27 PM EST (#455570) #
What's happens to our international funds if we don't get Sasaki and all of the good prospects are signed? Can we carry it over?
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 05:29 PM EST (#455571) #
Bregman has accumulated some injuries I think. And he’s been in decline the last couple of years. His walk rate really fell off in 2024. He might rebound (like Chapman in 2024), or he might end up being a bad signing pretty fast. Probably he would be valuable for at least a year or two.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 05:29 PM EST (#455572) #
Paging Glevin and Marc
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:11 PM EST (#455573) #
Sasaki to dodgers. Just so bad for baseball and it feels like we were strung along again.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:13 PM EST (#455574) #
Damn what a shame for Mark and Ross and all of baseball unless you like the whole "money buys happiness" thing.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:14 PM EST (#455575) #
This is starting to get embarrassing.
Katie - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:17 PM EST (#455576) #
I do credit them for trying. I think it's good to not just concede these players.

I have no idea what the hell Myles Straw is good for now.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:17 PM EST (#455577) #
This is terrible for MLB - if he went to SD I'd have been fine, but LA? They were rumored for months to have a pre-agreement in place, and this just makes it obvious they must have. Jays obviously with the trade today felt strung along and were put in a no-win situation. They could offer more cash than LA. In the end it was pre-determined. Luckily none of the Jays prospects appeared to sign elsewhere. Jays should now swoop in on any high end IFA and 'steal' them from whoever they were committed to with that extra $2 mil.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:19 PM EST (#455578) #
It's so bad for baseball because Sasaki would have been transformational for a number of franchises and for the Dodgers is like their #4 starter. They didn't need Sasaki at all but Japanese players seem only want to go LA. I don't know where Jays go from here but I think trying to contend makes less sense. Hopefully they can use extra international room to sign some extra players at least.
johnny was - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:20 PM EST (#455579) #
Atkins must now be fired for doing the Straw trade today. How can that not be the final straw?
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:22 PM EST (#455580) #
Yes, credit to Shapiro and Atkins for putting on the full court press for Ohtani, Soto and Sasaki.

Just keep trying to creatively make the team better.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:23 PM EST (#455581) #
"This is starting to get embarrassing."

For MLB and the LAD, yes. Definitely not for the TBJ. Glad they are conducting themselves like an elite franchise when it comes to free agents.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:23 PM EST (#455582) #
Just read at FanGraphs that the Jays were down to just $1 mil left in IFA money if you factor in the guys they were linked to so that $2 mil might be to sign someone who is available who wasn't supposed to be.

Is it petty of me to hope Sasaki needs TJ surgery sometime this year? The Dodgers seem to have guys go down like flies all the time (3 TJ's and 2 major shoulder surgery guys right now).
Kelekin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:24 PM EST (#455583) #
I also credit them for trying. I don't love the FO, but the fact we've been near the finish line with the biggest names in the sport is still a philosophical improvement. Even if in the end, it nets nothing more.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:29 PM EST (#455584) #
Now we will see what happens. Will Alonso, Santander and Bregman all spurn Toronto like Burnes and Sasaki and Bichette? Vlad?

This FO has gotta be feeling terrible with their rotten luck while Friedman must feel like the center of the universe.

I don't hope for injuries to the LAD but I do hope MLB or someone else discovers lots of illegal deals and money under the table and strips the Dodgers of picks and $$$.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:30 PM EST (#455585) #
It’s frustrating because the Blue Jays need to get a toehold in the Japanese elite player market. There have been so many good players from there (Ichiro, Darvish, Tanaka, Ohtani, Yamamoto, Sasaki, to name a few). If players like Ohtani and Sasaki had real interest in Toronto, then the Blue Jays should keep trying hard to acquire Japanese players. Eventually they will break through.

Hopefully they can use the extra pool money to boost their IFA talent acquisition this off-season. It’s a consolation prize, but it could still have significant value to the organization.
Mike D - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:33 PM EST (#455586) #
Unfortunately, failure begets failure. They are being punished over and over again for their horrendous minor league development and useless last several offseasons.

But I will say that Sasaki was a much, much more worthwhile effort than Soto which cost the team so much leverage and was never going to succeed.

I also think it was disgraceful for Wolfe to let the Jays get to the point of a Straw trade without making intentions clearer sooner. Either you want the Dodgers or you don’t. This was a joke. And he should have known better.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:34 PM EST (#455587) #
"Is it petty of me to hope Sasaki needs TJ surgery sometime this year?"

Petty is not the word I'd use.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:42 PM EST (#455588) #
Actually, I think the Straw trade might have come *after* the Blue Jays were informed they were out on Sasaki. They might have wanted to execute the trade quickly so that they could grab a quality IFA player or two (maybe one of the Dodgers IFA players) before other teams pounce on them. The front office urgently needs to improve the farm system, and this is one way to do
It.

And they may need a center fielder anyway while Varsho is rehabbing. Straw can fill that role and maybe there is a slight chance he can become a modestly valuable player again.

The FO has had awful luck lately. Ohtani, Soto, Sasaki, Burnes…can’t get valuable FAs to sign with them…can’t get Japanese players to sign with them…and also the relatively crappy 2025 Rule 4 draft pick they ended up with after a poor 2024 season.
BlueJayWay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:44 PM EST (#455589) #
It was always going to be LA. Just like Ohtani last winter. Just wish we hadn't gotten strung alone, again. Oh and made that Straw trade this time.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:53 PM EST (#455590) #
Yeah the stringing along is what gets me. Just sign with the Dodgers and stop pretending. Why announce finalists? This I think will increase support for international draft. I was meh on it before but it would absolutely stop this garbage.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:54 PM EST (#455591) #
The Blue Jays have a lot of payroll room after 2025. The financial obligation to Straw was less important to the organization than was the $2m in pool money, due to the need to restock the farm system.

Let’s hope for a Blue Jays-Dodgers 2025 World Series for some payback.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:58 PM EST (#455592) #
There needs to be some acknowledgement that Toronto has been competing the past two years with what, one of the greatest front offices and teams in MLB history with unlimited payroll?

Snell
Glasnow
Ohtani
Yamamoto
Kershaw
Sasaki
johnny was - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 06:59 PM EST (#455593) #
If cover for Varsho in CF was part of the logic behind the Straw trade, there are still a lot of basically free and superior alternatives on the market. Dylan Carlson, Roman Laureano, Manny Margot, etc. The only justification for taking on all that salary was that it was the last step to cinch the Sasaki deal.
Hodgie - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:00 PM EST (#455594) #
If there was already an agreement with the LAD, as was likely, it makes sense for everyone involved to play this farce out as long as possible to avoid confirming suspicions.

That said, I have zero faith that MLB would do anything to what has become their flagship franchise. This is an organization that in its recent past, has covered up physical and sexual assaults by minor leaguers in its system, has been investigated by the US DOJ on RICO violations (human trafficking) and there has been nary a peep from MLB.

John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:02 PM EST (#455595) #
Yeah, up until a week ago roughly I had the Jays as a 0-1% odds of getting Sasaki then with the trade today I was so excited, figuring that was it, they got him. Sigh. At least it wasn't dragged out like Ohtani was. Yeah, the TJ thing was a bit much - more said in frustration, and after looking at the Dodgers IL list (3 TJ's in progress right now). Maybe better to hope the Dodgers have everything go wrong this year and fail to make the playoffs is more appropriate, then have bad luck going forward and fail to get another title while Sasaki is there, meanwhile the Jays put it all together and win a title - hey, a guy can dream.

So, now what? Lots of IFA signing I'm assuming. Do the Jays do the Vlad at 3B, Alonso at 1B thing? Seems very out of character but it'd be fun. What about LF? Loperfido/Lukes/Schneider/Clase/Straw fighting it out (Straw & Lukes in CF to start 2025 until Varsho back). Straw (76) and Schneider (105) are RH, Loperfido (96) & Lukes (103) LH, Clase (85) switch. Lots of mix/match possible there (ZiPS OPS+ projection in brackets). Clase & Straw are speedsters (30+ SB ability), Lukes reasonably fast, Loperfido & Schneider average I think. Might the Jays go for Jack Flaherty or sign another top reliever? Next signing puts them into the luxury tax area (just 1 mil or so of space).
Mike D - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:07 PM EST (#455596) #
It’s pretty embarrassing that NOW the Dodgers are acquiring international bonus money.

It was either malpractice or - and I would have sympathy for this - they were unprofessionally played.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:07 PM EST (#455597) #
Gate 14 podcast is live streaming and their source is telling them to standby and "just wait." Something is about to happen. I'm pretty sure their source is either Ernie Clement or Chris Bassitt.

I'm guessing an Alonso, Bregman or Santander deal is about to happen. Hoping Soto and Sasaki have been holding up the Jays...
85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:08 PM EST (#455598) #
The jays are in this predicament because of their abysmal record in acquiring and developing young talent and until that changes I see no pathway to a championship contender. Acquiring the $2m IFA money is great if I had any confidence in this regime ability to use it wisely but I don’t.
Hodgie - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:09 PM EST (#455599) #
I don't blame the FO for the Straw trade. To me, it appears to have been a calculated risk. It presented an opportunity to hopefully close the Sasaki deal, or as greenfrog already implied, pivot and use the extra pool to pursue several more IFAs that are now available. Of course, with all the extra IFA money this season, I also hope that means they are about to blow by the CBT threshold, extend Vlad, sign Bregman, and find a way to mend the fences and extend Bo. If signing Straw limits what they can now do, I reserve the right to change my mind.
85bluejay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:16 PM EST (#455600) #
I’m reading all these harsh nasty posts about the Dodgers and I don’t get it - should the Dodgers not put their best foot forward ? Are the Dodgers doing something illegal? Criticize your team for not doing better rather than throwing stones at the Dodgers for doing great.
adrianveidt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:16 PM EST (#455601) #
I don't think Sasaki has a longterm career ahead of him anyway, because the velocity is too high. His arm will fall off at some point.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:21 PM EST (#455602) #
"The jays are in this predicament because of their abysmal record in acquiring and developing young talent and until that changes I see no pathway to a championship contender. Acquiring the $2m IFA money is great if I had any confidence in this regime ability to use it wisely but I don’t."

If you feel this strongly against this team then why are you only posting these types of comments after they miss out on a free agent? If you don't see them able to develop young talent and see no chance for success otherwise then you're basically going to have to wait 2 years at least to see them try to redevelop young players. No sense lambasting the FO in this Roku reaction thread since it shouldn't have any effect anyways. I guess i'm wondering if you're actually just a bit down that they missed on another FA.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:22 PM EST (#455603) #
welcome to the Myles Straw Era.
Hodgie - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:24 PM EST (#455604) #
Sasaki is reportedly signing for a $6.5M bonus.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:25 PM EST (#455605) #
"Unfortunately, failure begets failure."

yep, the not-so-hidden-but-almost-always-ignored cost of premising a rebuild on sucking for years and then nickel and diming all the products of that rebuild to boot.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:29 PM EST (#455606) #
If you're gonna be toxic then be toxic. Going from toxic to positive to toxic because they missed on Sasaki is sore loser mentality.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:31 PM EST (#455607) #
you're not the boss of me!
pooks137 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:39 PM EST (#455608) #
What's happens to our international funds if we don't get Sasaki and all of the good prospects are signed? Can we carry it over?

The last time I recall the Jays ending up with some leftover IFA signing bucks very late in the cycle with everyone else already spoken for, they ended up getting creative by going to some non-traditional markets to sign Sem Robberse. And sign Yosver Zueleta out of Cuba.

dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:41 PM EST (#455609) #
Yeah I can't argue that. I just hope we can be more positive or at least have some toxic positivity. This place was a better place the be the past week or so.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:46 PM EST (#455610) #
This is called being a fanatic. We cheer for laundry, it doesn't have to be rational.
99BlueJaysWay - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:46 PM EST (#455611) #
Santander rumours are heating up again. That’s something
Nigel - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 07:59 PM EST (#455612) #
There is no chance that this FO is so incompetent that they completed the Straw deal on the hope of winning this lottery. Whatever your view of this FO they simply aren’t that incompetent. They actively wanted Straw and the bonus pool money. Now why they would want that is open for debate.

Why anyone would criticize the Dodgers or the agent escapes me.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:02 PM EST (#455613) #
Héctor Gómez
@hgomez27
The #BlueJays had been scouting Roki Sasaki for about 3 years, built relationships within his camp and over the last 24hrs were confident that they would land him.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:03 PM EST (#455614) #
lol.

shatkins.
SK in NJ - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:12 PM EST (#455615) #
Taking Straw's contract on the hopes of a Hail Mary pass turning out in their favor would be a fireable offense. I hope that wasn't what happened here. This is one of the few FO's that would actually value Straw at $5M a year, sadly. Maybe they accepted this risk as either a way to get Sasaki or to reallocate the money to other prospects. If they made this trade without any sort of assurance from Sasaki, and the trade was made specifically to sign him, then wow. They would deserve every bit of criticism they are getting for that.

A Santander rumor from Toronto media has already surfaced, and the Jays are typically tight lipped, so damage control might be happening.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:14 PM EST (#455616) #
Maybe Sasaki was genuinely interested in playing in Toronto, but the current state of the organization (major-league roster plus farm system plus coaching staff) is so weak that he couldn’t justify choosing the Blue Jays over the powerhouse Dodgers.

Plus the country is also in a state thanks to generally poor governance at the federal level (sorry to be a bit political).
Hodgie - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:20 PM EST (#455617) #
"Plus the country is also in a state thanks to generally poor governance at the federal level (sorry to be a bit political). "

Boy, if that is the case Sasaki is in for a surprise come January 20 ...

greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:29 PM EST (#455618) #
The US has lots of problems but they still set the standard for excellence in many fields and in attracting the best global talent. I think Canada generally has become more mediocre over the last decade and the Blue Jays (fairly or not) currently seem emblematic of that.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:32 PM EST (#455619) #
No *h*t lol good call
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:34 PM EST (#455620) #
greenfrog that is a far far reach my friend. Really, attracting the best global talent? The Jays are emblematic of the Canadian country and the mediocrity that has only happens to Canada and no other country in the world since 2019. Okay then.
Marc Hulet - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:35 PM EST (#455621) #
You can't carry over international funds so they have to be used before next December.

I would imagine now some of this international money will be used to soften the blow of signing one or two QO FAs (Santander and maybe someone else).

The Jays may have a 1 or 2 deals lined up that they didn't want to make until they knew what their international pool was going to be after the Sasaki decision.

Announcing Santander now will definitely be a little bit of damage control.
Gerry - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:36 PM EST (#455622) #
ugly,

I think we decided that that word combination for the front office is not to be used here. We try and keep it respectful.
Gerry - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:45 PM EST (#455623) #
Baseball America has just two players listed as being linked to the Dodgers. They are Francisco Rivera and Adrian Torres. We will see where they sign.
Gerry - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:50 PM EST (#455624) #
Rivera was #64 on the BA board which would mean a signing bonus of $600,000. Torres was not in the top 100 so his bonus would be less than $400,000.

I am not sure the Jays will need $2M in international money so it could be a waste.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:56 PM EST (#455625) #
I’m comparing Canada and the US only.

As just one example, compare the divergence in GDP per capita across the two countries. The Economist (30 Sept 2024): “Why is Canada’s economy falling behind America’s? The country was slightly richer than Montana in 2019. Now it is just poorer than Alabama.”

I think people, including professional baseball players, can pick up the general vibe of economic dynamism in the US and creeping mediocrity or stagnation in Canada. You can feel it and perceive it in myriad ways.

I’m a proud Canadian but I think it’s important to be honest about what is happening in our country.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 08:59 PM EST (#455626) #
Blaming this excellent market for our front office's failures is pretty fricken weak tbh.
uglyone - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:04 PM EST (#455627) #
last thing we need is excuse-making for this FO resulting in this board being dragged into some half-assed uninformed political discussion.

let's nip this in the bud and keep the focus on this FO.

greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:05 PM EST (#455628) #
One or more of the remaining FAs is going to extract a lot of money from the desperate Blue Jays in the coming days and weeks.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:08 PM EST (#455629) #
UO: now do GDP per capita.

Canada in recent years has artificially propped up its GDP stats by increasing its immigration quotas (to mask poor GDP per capita numbers).
ISLAND BOY - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:14 PM EST (#455630) #
A disappointing outcome but I give credit to Atkins and Shapiro for putting up a good fight the last few years and losing out on Sasaki must be particularly bitter as it has been reported that the team spent the last 3 years building up a rapport with him.

I don't believe that LA Dodgers are good for baseball. How many other teams can afford to have 1 billion in deferred money to be paid out in the future? Their financial clout and their advantageous geographical location ( Shorter plane ride home for Japanese players, easier for family to come visit ) now make them a powerhouse.

They do have a well run baseball organization, and some say " you can't fault them for using their advantages". Well, no, you can't fault them but you can fault MLB for not having stronger checks and balances to stop the ultra rich teams from stockpiling the best players. Unless MLB installs a hard cap on salaries, or something similar, there won't be parity in baseball. While there are Cinderella teams every few years in the playoffs, otherwise it will be the same rich teams every year in the postseason, and that will make for less interest in baseball which is already a dying sport.
Gerry - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:20 PM EST (#455631) #
The FO gets credit for trying, but they also appear to have misread the situation. That could be desperation but I really don't think they would have traded for Straw just to get the international money. The issue is the tax, its probably not just $5.5M, its likely going to be $5.5M plus whatever tax gets added on.

I would assume Sasaki made his decision yesterday or early today. Did the Jays call his agent to say we are about to make this deal? I would love to know.

I cant imagine the Rogers bean counters are happy with this.

Eephus - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:24 PM EST (#455632) #
I like that the front office was willing to take this kind of risk, although I think it’s become quite clear it was a bad risk. The Straw trade is objectively terrible and nothing can now change that.

Funny enough I now totally expect them to pivot onto Alonso or Santander just to save face. Otherwise…. Hoo boy.
Marlow - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:34 PM EST (#455633) #
It is too bad the Jays could pull off the Sasaki signing. In the end, the Dodger's reputation and the strength of the farm system persuaded Sasaki to go with a sustainable winning organization.

It is really impressive that they were the finalists in the Ohtani and Sasaki sweepstakes, beating out the Yankees/Mets/Cubs/rest of the other MLB clubs. This result shows us that the Jays have really good strategic planning and sales skills.

Where the Jays fall short on is the scouting and player development areas. The short coming is very evident when you look at the Boston Red Sox, who rebuilt their farm system with a couple of good drafts. Hopefully with the new scouting director Marc Trumata and the new minor league coaches and coordinators coming in for 2025, the Jays will be able to reverse the trend.

Once the Jays rebuild their farm system, they should be successful in the recruitment of the next Japanese sensation that comes along.

That said, after this unsuccessful winter off season, I really wish the Jays will start looking at a rebuild at this stage. The team has too many holes and you cannot rely on free agents to plug all the holes.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:38 PM EST (#455634) #
I want to see what they do with the $2m in international pool money before I assess the Straw trade.

UO, in the spirit of relying on advanced stats as opposed to superficial ones (as we try to do on this site in the baseball context), I’m hoping you’ll do some research on GDP per capita and the growing wealth gap between Canada and the US. It’s a big deal and well worth understanding properly. I won’t post a bunch of links but this can be easily Googled.

I can’t say what impact, if any, this is having in MLB but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a factor in some decisions being made by players and organizations.

I’m certainly not using this as an excuse for the Blue Jays front office.

Here endeth the economics portion of my contribution to this discussion.
dalimon5 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:43 PM EST (#455635) #
Amen
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:46 PM EST (#455636) #
Is it possible to rank the Blue Jays front offices from most to least irritating?

1. Ash front office

2. Ricciardi front office

3. Atkins Shapiro front office

4. Anthopoulos front office

5. Gillick front office
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:48 PM EST (#455637) #
A reminder - NO BLOODY POLITICS HERE. There are 1001 other places for it. Not here. And I say that as someone who will be running in the next Ontario election (paper candidate for the Greens in a remote riding somewhere) and has run twice before (real running, on TV for debates and everything - not hard to find if you want to go through the pain of the 2018 or 2014 elections).

The Jays have one of the largest revenue bases in MLB - a captured 40 million viewer potential that no other team can touch, a massive local market that isn't split with other ML teams (or even NFL teams - sorry Bills, and no the Argos don't count). The Raptors really suck right now, and the Leafs...well...they are the Leafs (packed stadium/tv viewers even if they suck). Doubt the PWHL or WNBA will impact the Jays much if at all. So the Jays really have the variable sporting market to themselves (locked in is the Leafs which no one can touch). If the Jays want to have the highest payroll in MLB they could afford it. Rogers likes profits though (obviously) thus they won't go higher than what can be justified by added revenue potential. What is that level? We don't know. But if the team is sub 500 we know the crowds drop and viewership crashes. If the team is on a 90+ win pace the TV ratings go through the roof and the park is packed. Unlike the Leafs the Jays have a massive incentive to win.

Anthony Santander does look like an ideal piece to add - play in LF and DH, Santander-Varsho-Springer could be a decent outfield if Springer has any kind of bounceback. Loperfido-Lukes-Straw-Schneider are the guys fighting for backup slots (all have options left). Not to mention Clase, Roden, Berroa, and others.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 09:51 PM EST (#455638) #
Like wishing TJ surgery on Sasaki?
adrianveidt - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:00 PM EST (#455639) #
John, don't you think, given the nature of the division, that the org needs to outspend the other AL East teams to consistently win? Every year they end up in the 3-5 position despite being the richest owner in the division.
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:01 PM EST (#455640) #
greenfrog - oh how people forget...

Gillick - people were calling for his head after 1987/early 1988 with the whole 'move Bell to DH after winning an MVP' crap to make room for his favorite prospect at the time (Sil Campusano). Not to mention his 'stand Pat' nickname in '88 when he refused to do any trades with a team that was damn close with obvious holes (no trades from Sept 22, 1987 to March 9, 1989, hard to imagine now but it did happen). Plus the pure stupidity of putting Jimy Williams in charge then undermining Cito Gaston in '89 by openly talking about wanting Lou Pinella to be the manager (it was front page news for awhile, but the Yankees refused to let the Jays talk to him).

AA - after 2013 he didn't look so golden. He traded a ton to build a pre-season favorite that came in dead last. Before the big mid-season deals in 2015 (after he knew he was on his way out), his best season was his first at 85-77 (11 out), 4th place. Or 3rd place (83-79, 13 out) in 2014 depending how one looks at it before those critical deals.

90 win seasons: Gillick - 5, Atkins - 2, AA - 1, everyone else 0.

Playoffs: Gillick - 4, Atkins - 3, AA - 1, everyone else 0.

I will say AA was entertaining with his impossible to guess deals and moves - he was called a ninja for a reason and it was a blast.
vw_fan17 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:02 PM EST (#455641) #
Weren't we the team with the highest salary in the entire league the two years we won?
vw_fan17 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:03 PM EST (#455642) #
At what point does Rogers concede that Shapiro / Atkins are just mediocre and aren't taking us to the promised land?
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:07 PM EST (#455643) #
The wishing TJ surgery thing I am sorry for saying - it was spur of the moment, frustration over the whole mess. That is not as bad as the many who use the gross nickname for Shapiro/Atkins - a nickname we asked many to stop using here out of basic respect. If one cannot resist using insults like that, then please go to the toxic sites (like Twitter) instead.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:07 PM EST (#455644) #
If you exclude 2016 (still largely Anthopoulos’s roster), only Gillick and AA have produced any postseason wins for the organization. Every other Blue Jays GM has produced zero postseason wins. So I think you have to rank Gillick and AA at the top of the heap in the end, despite their flaws and missteps.
mendocino - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:10 PM EST (#455645) #
other players will become eligible at different times during signing period, might not see results till Dec 15.

SS Cristopher Polanco DR #11 (BA) /22 (MLB)
SS Juan Sanchez DR #46 (BA)
SS Elenaiker Coronado VEN #60 (BA)
SS Kennew Blanco VEN #79 (BA)
----------------------
RHP Raduan Perez VEN
RHP Guilyerver Rodriguez VEN
RHP Alexander Valiente CUB
C Diego Arce MEX
C Josh? Gori VEN
OF Elian Reyes DR

RHP Miguel Pantoja, RHP MEX 94-95
https://www.threads.net/@rh7__prospectos/post/DA--y1lOYBw

RHP Alexander Valiente 93-96, potential 100 MPH, Curve, Slider, Splitter
https://cubanbaseballdigest.com/2025/01/07/another-cuban-pitcher-signs-with-the-bluejays/

Yeicer Crespo, C VEN R/R Nov/28/2007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut8zOH7Nru4

Old Names
Angel Vasquez, RHP PAN
Julio Ozoria, LHP DR
Freilyn Eusebio, RHP
Ayverson Contreras RHP VEN
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:14 PM EST (#455646) #
Yes, the Jays had the highest payroll in '92 and '93. Not in '85 when they won 99 though. The big trick is to develop from within, which they did with Vlad & Bo, but then you need to get lucky too - ie: win in the playoffs which is mostly a crapshoot (see both KC WS wins for good examples).
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:22 PM EST (#455647) #
The Gillick (1980s and early 1990s) and AA teams (2015 and 2016) actually won quite a few postseason games in total. And their teams won several division titles. That is a successful track record, in my opinion.

Atkins’s teams made the postseason via the more relaxed WC system that was recently implemented. That is not as impressive as winning the division or earning a harder-to-obtain WC spot. And, of course, his teams did not win a single postseason game.

Advantage: Gillick and AA.

I acknowledge that Atkins and Shapiro did manage to assemble good teams in 2021-2023, although they didn’t do enough to strike while the iron was hot and put them over the top.
ISLAND BOY - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:30 PM EST (#455648) #
To John Northey : the Leafs do not suck. They are leading their division and are one of the top 5 teams in the NHL. But (ahem) in the playoffs, I must admit, they do suck.
ayjackson - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:33 PM EST (#455649) #
Is the likely plan for Bichette-Gimenez to handle SS-2B through July, then for Giminez-Martinez to take it from there?

In an ideal world.
pooks137 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:37 PM EST (#455650) #
I want to see what they do with the $2m in international pool money before I assess the Straw trade.

Same here. On the surface, the Straw trade looks awful, exchanging something like 13 million in multiyear payroll room in exchange for 2 million in unsigned IFA pool bucks.

If you went back in the Box' archives to the JPR/Bud Selig era and the Jays adhering strictly to the MLB's draft slotting bonus recommendations before the draft & CBA were overhauled, you'd come across many Bauxites advocating that the Jays should maximize their player development chances in ways that only cost resources from Rogers pocket.

In a lot of ways, this trade has the potential to do the same. The Jays may have added 2 million dollars worth of international prospects to their system with the only cost being that is overall cost Rogers itself something like 12-17 million from their coffers to purchase the extra prospects.

Of course, it's not 2005 anymore, so there are many new rules and bean counter calculations.

The extra prospects may cost more than just Rogers money if pushing over CBT thresholds from the extra dead payroll dollars lowers future IFA pools as penalties.

John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:46 PM EST (#455651) #
So how is the division right now? Based on ZiPS projections we get...
  • C: Bal 3.9, Jays 3.5, NYY 3.1, Rays 2.2, Bos 1.5
  • 1B: Jays 3.8, Rays 2.6, Bos 2.3, Bal 1.6, NYY 0.6
  • 2B: Jays 3.9, Bal 3.4, Rays 3.1, NYY 2.4, Bos 2.2
  • 3B: Bos 3.9, Bal 3.6, NYY 2.9, Rays 2.3, Jays 2.0
  • SS: Bal 6.1, Jays 3.3, NYY 3.3, Bos 2.6, Rays 2.3
  • LF: Bos 3.5, Bal 3.4, NYY 2.0, Jays 2.0, Rays 1.5
  • CF: Bal 3.1, Jays 2.9, Bos 2.8, NYY 2.8, Rays 1.7
  • RF: NYY 7.9, Bos 3.0, Bal 2.6, Rays 2.4, Jays 1.6
  • DH: Bos 2.0, Bal 1.6, Rays 1.6, NYY 1.3, Jays 0.9
  • SP: Rays 3.5-3.1-2.7-2.3-1.8-1.8 (15.2), NYY 3.7-3.6-2.5-2.0-1.9-1.1 (14.8), Bos 4.6-3.2-2.3-2.2-1.0-0.9 (14.2), Jays 3.8-2.8-2.7-2.3-1.6-0.6 (13.8), Bal 2.9-2.7-2.2-1.2-0.9-0.5-0.5 (10.9)
  • RP: NYY 4.3, Bal 3.9, Bos 3.8, Rays 3.4, Jays 3.2
  • Net: NYY 45.4, Bal 44.1, Bos 41.8, Rays 41.7, Jays 40.9
So the Jays lead at 1B and 2B, dead last at 3B, RF, DH, RP and overall. But under a 5 WAR spread from best to worst in the East. Much closer than I expected. This could be a fun division (FYI: for fun the White Sox are at 17.5 - could another 120 loss season happen? Maybe). FYI: The White Sox are projected at 1.0 at 1B vs the Yankees at 0.6 (!), they beat the Jays in RF 1.9 to 1.6. Their CF is at 3.4, better than anything in the East - go figure. Poor Robert Jr, gotta suck being the best on a terrible team.
JB21 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:49 PM EST (#455652) #
In what world is wishing a life altering injury not worse than using a nickname that is the literal combination of two names?
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:51 PM EST (#455653) #
For the IFA pool - I suspect the Jays are planning on losing some space in the future thus trying to maximize what they do this year. First by chasing Sasaki, now by chasing as many top notch IFA's as they can. The value of a top IFA is more than they are paid, otherwise there wouldn't be a cap. If the Jays do a solid job scouting in 5-8 years we might look back at this year as a key one in building the next great Jays team (ala 2016's where they got Lourdes Gurriel, Otto Lopez, Alejandro Kirk, Steward Berroa, and Gabriel Moreno - via The Baseball Cube)
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:56 PM EST (#455654) #
In any world - deliberately using an insult that resembles a curse word is worse than a momentary lapse in judgement when one is mad about something. Much like those with F*** Trudeau signs I find quite disgusting (even though I am no fan of Trudeau), vs those who say 'if Ford had a heart attack I hope he'd have to wait 12 hours too' after being forced to wait 12 hours in an ER due to political choices that led to overcrowding. Yeah, political comparison but the easiest one I could think of. One is a choice made over and over again, the other is a momentary burst of frustration and anger but not meaning anything. So please pay attention to context, it is quite meaningful.
Sherrystar - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 10:59 PM EST (#455655) #
On the surface? It’s already out there from other executives that they will not be able to use the additional pool money on a pretty weak class. Can’t wait to see the Atkins/Shapiro supporters justify taking on all that money for a 30 year AAA player who’s even worse than Bradley Zimmer.
greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:04 PM EST (#455656) #
Does ZIPS know about Varsho’s shoulder surgery? If Varsho is ineffective in 2025, it could be a very long season for the Blue Jays.

The team needs at least two bats. I really don’t know which ones would be the best to add from among Bregman, Santander, Alonso, Profar. Each seems to carry a fair bit of risk.

I think I would be OK with replacing the front office and starting a rebuild — if there were truly great candidates available to take over. On the other hand, I get that there is a strong incentive to try one more time to win in 2025 under the existing FO. It may not be a great idea, but it’s not an outrageous one.

Also: let’s say the next Sasaki, Ichiro or Ohtani is 19 or 20 years old and just getting untracked in Japan. Are Shapiro and Atkins going to initiate (yet again) another painstaking courtship of the player, in the hopes of winning a bidding war for him three or four years from now? I’m exhausted just thinking about it.
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:22 PM EST (#455657) #
Can’t wait to see the Atkins/Shapiro supporters justify taking on all that money for a 30 year AAA player who’s even worse than Bradley Zimmer."

If getting Straw doesn't stop them from any other moves, then it literally doesn't matter. He's a bad player the Jays owe $11M to over 2 years. It shouldn't matter. If trading for Straw stops them from signing someone good, then yes, it's a disaster but I doubt it.
Marc Hulet - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:23 PM EST (#455658) #
I am quite certain it won't be until 2026 when Varsho's shoulder is as close to 100% as possible.

Straw is very much more expensive and likely less effective than Steward Berroa. As I said before, the best thing the extra international money will do is allow them to sign QO players (but they'll also lose very important draft picks/draft capital).
John Northey - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:29 PM EST (#455659) #
IMO the Jays don't have a choice but to keep chasing down these players wherever they are. Sometimes you get them (Vlad in '15) sometimes you don't (Sasaki this year). It is painful, but how it is.

As to the free agents, I feel Santander doesn't want to come here - it seems no one else is chasing him (based on the lack of rumors) and the Jays hopefully will not move from their current bid. Alonso is harder to read. Profar has a lot of warts but could fit in nicely at a lower cost. Bregman? He is demanding way too much, I'd go to 3 years at a high dollar per year maybe, depending what is expected from him. At this point the Jays front office should play hardball. If they can't get who they want at the price they want, so be it. There are only so many teams with cash and Bregman/Santander/Alonso all pushed it too far this year imo. Odds are if the Jays wait one of them will give in, maybe 2. All depends on the rest of the league, will someone else give in to their demands at this late stage? Doubtful. We'll see.
pooks137 - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:32 PM EST (#455660) #
March 8, 2019 - Traded Dwight Smith Jr. to the Baltimore Orioles. Received international bonus slot money.

March 27, 2019 - Traded Kendrys Morales and cash to the Oakland Athletics. Received Jesus Lopez (minors) and international bonus slot money.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/longform/how-an-off-the-radar-flyer-became-one-of-the-blue-jays-top-pitching-prospects/

In the spring of 2019, an unexpected windfall of international bonus pool money sent Andrew Tinnish globetrotting. Two separate trades returned $1.5 million in spending room to the capped out Toronto Blue Jays, but the money came with a key caveat: it had to be spent by June 15, the very end of the 2018 signing period, after the top eligible players were long gone. That meant Tinnish, the club’s vice president of international scouting and baseball operations, and his staff needed to find players who had either slipped through the cracks or raised their stock after being initially passed over. A rough target list, a series of transcontinental flights and a huge spike in Tinnish’s air miles balance followed. “It was really a matter of, ‘Okay, we have two months to do our work on these guys, get to know them, get to know their make up and see them play,” says Tinnish. “So let’s get to work.”

Some of that work was relatively straightforward. A pair of Cuban pitchers held a workout in the Dominican Republic attended by nearly every big-league team, whether they had money to spend or not. The Blue Jays focused on Yosver Zulueta, the now 24-year-old flamethrower lighting up the radar gun at the organization’s advanced-A affiliate in Vancouver. He touched 98 m.p.h. and signed for $1 million.

More complicated was what to do with the remaining money. A trip to Taiwan to scout a few players delivered a less conclusive look, as they were out of season and tougher to gauge. Then there was the Netherlands, where teenagers Jiorgeny Casimiri, a hard-throwing righty, and Max Kops, a toolsy outfielder, were working out with the Dutch under-18 program. The Blue Jays signed Casimiri for $225,000, while Kops opted for an American college. But before the deadline hit, they also added another pitcher. This was a player they had tracked in the past but who very easily could have been overlooked because he didn’t pop the radar gun. Instead, Tinnish placed a $125,000 bet on the advanced pitching mechanics and maturity of Sem Robberse, who has since emerged as one the club’s top pitching prospects.

So the last time the Jays had some extra and late expiring 1.5 mil IFA pool money after trading away Dwight Smith Jr and Kendrys Morales in camp, they ended up with Zulueta, Robberse and Casimiri (a now 22 y/o reliever signed in his teens that left the system in '23). So it gives a rough idea of what could potentially be expected from an unaccounted for 2 million IFA pool. Robberse was half of the price to rent Jordan Hicks for the '23 pennant run. Zulueta is peculiar. He rose to be a Top 5 prospect in a bad Toronto system, seems to have been mismanaged in being lost on waivers and has at least made the MLB. Casimiri is gone and was in the BAL system last year. But he was signed young and had 5 years in the system to be evaluated and progress.

greenfrog - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:47 PM EST (#455661) #
John: I’m talking about Japanese players specifically.

The Blue Jays have signed many good players out of Latin America over the years. By contrast, they’ve never signed an important player out of Japan. Is it worth the enormous investment of time and money to chase those players, if the players are so unwilling to come to Canada? Or maybe a different front office would have more success in this regard? If the Blue Jays had been a high-flying organization, fresh off post-season success and flush with prospects and major-league talent, would Sasaki or Ohtani have signed here?
Glevin - Friday, January 17 2025 @ 11:58 PM EST (#455662) #
I think Japanese players by and large want to be on west coast and LA with its great weather and huge Japanese population are always going to be very attractive. You can't stop pursuing players because you never know who will choose you but one of the unspoken advantages in baseball is that there are like 5-10 teams where players really want to go and they never have to add extra years, can get players on hometown discounts, etc... And these teams have a huge advantage. It's because it's where players are from, big cities, good weather, low taxes, etc... Atlanta, LA, Texas, NY teams, Boston, SD, Cubs come to mind. Jays will never have this which is why player development is so key but it is really unfair not just to the Jays but to like 20+ teams.
The_Game - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:05 AM EST (#455663) #
Fire them. Enough is enough.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:08 AM EST (#455664) #
BNS has a piece up on Sportsnet on the Sasaki aftermath for the Blue Jays. It’s a good balanced piece that is also quietly devastating. The Toronto front office reputation must be at an all-time low across MLB right now. That alone is arguably reason enough to replace them. It’s hard to be effective as a GM and president when you’re viewed by players and other teams as incompetent and/or a try-hard with inspirational mottos on your office wall.
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:35 AM EST (#455665) #
greenfrog - guessing you mean this article. I think the big issue is being close but no cigar. KC, Milwaukee, Detroit, etc were nowhere close on Ohtani, Soto, or Sasaki so they get a 'meh' but the Jays get blasted for trying and coming damn close at least twice but failing to the best organization in baseball. Seems the Jays need to stop trying for the home run and go for more singles/doubles. Sounds funny given how the front office calls power 'low hanging fruit', yet they constantly swing for those dingers themselves.

The way I see it, they inherited a good ML team with 1 solid prospect (Vlad) and had to deal with the aging roster and no ML ready prospects. By 2020 they had a playoff team, added pre-2020 with a Cy Young finalist, then pre 2021 added 2 all-stars (Springer and Semien) and missed the playoffs by 1 game. 2022 added Gausman (lost Cy winner Ray) & added Chapman too, made the playoffs and should've won game 2 but the pen fell apart, Springer ran into Bo (hard) and for god knows what reason they had Tapia in LF that game. 2023 they added Bassitt & Varsho, made the playoffs and did some stupid moves, but failing to score was the biggest issue. 2024 was a flop. I see the team getting 2025 as a 2nd chance, but if the Jays flop again expect front office changes before October is done (maybe even mid-season).

The question isn't how do players/other teams see them but can they retool fast and get back to the playoffs or close enough to keep crowds coming. No crowds, no TV viewers, no jobs. Pretty simple equation. 1 bad year can fall under 'crap happens', 2 or more...not so good. However, safe to say Rogers doesn't want a full rebuild which anyone decent coming in would want to do (see 2016-2018 for an example). It'll be interesting to see how this year goes - I see the potential for a very good team here, I also see the potential for a bad team. If Bo & Vlad play like men wanting massive deals and the pitchers hold up then good things happen. If instead they all flop around and fail to reach their potential then ugly stuff will happen. Post 2025 free agents (cap hit in brackets): Vlad ($28.5 mil), Bassitt ($21 mil), Bo ($11.2), Green ($10.5), Swanson ($3 mil) = $74.5 mil - mid season deals means $37.1 could be removed mid year if the team is sucking, which should be more than enough to go sub tax level. Of course, if the team is sucking odds are some of these guys will be too which makes them much harder to trade without paying some of their salary.
Eephus - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:07 AM EST (#455666) #
I've said this before but I do think when we look back on the Atkins' era the biggest failure isn't going to be these excruciating public near-misses on franchise altering players. Those will certainly be remembered as the most gut-punching, and maybe you can blame this front office for being so easily taken advantage of, or selling false hope when there really isn't any. I don't in the latter, but the former... again that Straw trade is just goddamn $#$##$ horrible. A terrible contract for an unplayable guy for an extra 2 million for some 16 year old IFA who maaaaaybe helps the big club in 2032... yeah this doesn't exactly change my mind. Cleveland prayed on their desperation, Atkins blinked, and if Straw's money actually prevents them from making the multiple additional moves they still so need to make... well, a "naive and foolhardy critical failure" only begins to describe it.    

No, the real failure has been their pathetic drafting and player development record. Had they developed even a couple more cheap controllable secondary stars/quality regulars around Vlad or Bo, this would be a much different and healthier situation (rather than the failing life support we seem to be clinging to). Could be just plain bad luck, no one knows completely for sure... but it's always better to be lucky than good and at this point I don't think Atkins is either.   

I don't know Straw's L/R splits (I don't care remotely enough to look them up) but I can't wait for the fabricated hype this spring about what a "great platoon" Loperfido and Straw will make. Remember when following this team was fun, rather than resembling a slow maddening descent into inevitable doom? 

Whatever. Go get Alonso, he's fun and good. Or Bregman, although so much of what he adds isn't really what the team actually needs. Still not a Santander guy, so naturally that'll be the one. WAR be damned, I like Alonso's chances of aging gracefully as a hitter way way more.     

Glevin - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 07:10 AM EST (#455667) #
Jays aren't firing their front office in the middle of the off-season. That's absurd. Atkins should have been fired after Twins playoff loss IMO and Shapiro should have been fired or extended before this season. Having one year left has given them incentives that don't align with team. Anyway, big issue remains Vlad. Give him a real offer and if he is determined to go to FA or wants like $50M a year you need to trade him. I actually like a bunch of their offensive players (Roden, Wagner, Barger, Jimenez, etc...) and think some are likely to be major leaguers and the team if probably better off long term letting those guys get some abs and seeing what they have over getting Santander or someone else who doesn't move needle and costs a draft pick.
SK in NJ - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 08:31 AM EST (#455668) #
My hope now is that Shapiro and Atkins just mitigate any future long-term damage the rest of the winter as the team prepares for an inevitable selling at the deadline. The Straw trade is horrendous, but his contract expires after 2026 so it's not the end of the world. The real fear now is a Santander signing for 4-5 years, or Bregman for 6-7, or some other act of desperation to compensate for a 2nd consecutive public embarrassment. Just give Profar a 2 year deal and sign Quintana for the rotation, and be done with it. Don't lose any picks and limit future payroll damage.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 08:41 AM EST (#455669) #
The Sasaki chase made sense- a 23 yr old No. 2 starter you could begin to build around. And then go balls-to-the-wall with two of three (Santander, Alonso, Bregman) and keep spending with no regard to the financial penalties.

Now there is no point in losing draft picks (2nd and maybe 3rd plus international pool money) to clog up a roster badly in need of a retool. I've said many times that this roster has too many holes to compete.

Lose Bo and Vladdy and then get stuck with the expensive decline years of Springer (still), Santander and maybe Bregman or Alonso? No thanks...
SK in NJ - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 10:25 AM EST (#455670) #
I’ll give Atkins the benefit of the doubt and assume that if the Jays did in fact ramp up their talks with Santander yesterday morning as Ben Nicholson Smith suggested, then picking up the international money with Straw (aside from a desperation try for Sasaki) may have also been a move designed to add multiple prospects to the farm to compensate for the pick(s) and future international money they plan to lose for Santander and possibly others. Varsho is going to miss the beginning of the season (possibly longer), and the team may not feel comfortable with their internal CF options, so they felt a backup CF with great defense/speed can act as cover. Why they thought Straw’s contract was worth picking up is a bigger issue. It’s possible they tried for some of the FA options but maybe players like Harrison Bader and Michael A Taylor wanted starting spots or didn’t want to come here for whatever reason.

I’m probably reaching here to rationalize a bad move but there has to be some logic that we are missing. It’s probably as simple as liking Straw in the 4th OF role and planning to use the $2M on several players and hoping one clicks.
jz6pwc - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:18 AM EST (#455671) #
I’ll weigh in here mostly because I need to talk to someone about this to be able to move on…

I have no issue going after Sasaki, and investment that it takes to make a serious run at him. You have to even if the probability is low. I am also speculating that they knew when the Padres knew they were out. The Padres simply went about their business and signed their guys. The Jays thought let’s pick up some higher value international kids that some teams will no longer be able to. Either because of Teams like the Pirates picking up the Dodger kids and therefore leaving there own on the table, or the Jays just signing more players they may have been keeping an eye on. Also, as mentioned, perhaps they won’t be in a position to sign many players next year if they intend to pickup on what’s left on the free agent market. All of that is fine.

What I do have an issue with is why on earth would they trade for Straw and that contract? or even wait that long to do it. Instead, they have plenty of guys that are depth they will never get to, that could have been traded for Int'l $$$ and accomplish the same thing without the cap hit. Similar to what they did with Johnathan Davis and others in the past. I’m sure that would have been more difficult, but they have had months to do that.

Its the lack of strategic moves or planning that is concerning. They have never dealt with the holes in the lineup properly since they took over from AA. From what they say to the press it seems they even have a limited awareness of these issues.

I have no idea how they field a good team this year, it seems like a big mess right now of half baked plans that are falling apart. Worse, no light at the end of the tunnel.


Nigel - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:30 AM EST (#455672) #
Again, the simpler assumption is that they wanted Straw at that price point. They wanted Varsho, they wanted Gimenez, they have a type.
soupman - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:43 AM EST (#455673) #
When is the right time to get rid of the front office, if not today?
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:48 AM EST (#455674) #
Gotta love the posters who come out to complain only to never be seen again. I dont recognize their handles.

Sasaki was a lottery ticket. If you buy a lottery ticket and were close to winning but didn't does it really warrant complaints that it was stupid to buy as many lottery tickets as you did? Yes, i'd say so but i'll only pay attention to thr posters who held this opinion before the news turned out bad which is, one poster maybe?
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:52 AM EST (#455675) #
To be fair to the FO, they also wanted Ohtani, Yamamoto, Sasaki, Soto, Burnes, Fried, Cole, Seager, Verlander and Chapman, among others. Those players are the front office’s type as well. They just couldn’t land them.
Kelekin - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 11:52 AM EST (#455676) #
An outfield of Santander - Straw - Springer coming soon.

Really hope we can get Bregman or Alonso instead.
uglyone - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:07 PM EST (#455677) #
Some fans may still buy this FO's BS after all these years for some reason, and it seems like this FO still buys it's own BS, but mlb players sure aren't buying any of it.

The only question now is how long rogers will keep buying it.
christaylor - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:17 PM EST (#455678) #
This might be an unpopular opinion, but the FO, with a team that does not look promising in the future, might be unable to overcome the undesirability of playing in Canada. I know folks will point to having a whole country's fanbase behind a player, but when that country has high tax rates and a GDP per capita of about Mississippi, Canada is not a selling point.
SK in NJ - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:18 PM EST (#455679) #
“ Again, the simpler assumption is that they wanted Straw at that price point. They wanted Varsho, they wanted Gimenez, they have a type.”

Agreed. The Jays are one of the few teams willing to spend excessively for defense and Straw fits their history perfectly. I’d add $15M for IKF last year to the above list. They probably had ~$5M in mind to use for a backup CF, and either no one took their money or the players they targeted wanted more than that, so they went with Straw. I hate it as a fan, as the 2023 season actually frustrated me more than a lot of the team’s bad seasons and they actually made the playoffs that year, but this is the hill they want to die on. We just have to hope they add enough offense to compensate without destroying future payroll.
ISLAND BOY - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:20 PM EST (#455680) #
I'd be content in letting the current front office stay in place until the end of the coming season, then clean house which in Shapiro's and Schneider's cases is simply not resigning them.

The only thing I worry about is Vlad's contract situation. If he's not resigned before the season, then he'd likely be traded and do we trust Atkins to make a good deal ? Vlad and Bo simply cannot walk at the end of the season for nothing, because with top free agents not wanting to come here and no immediate help from the farm, things are going to look very bleak here for the immediate future.
ayjackson - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:22 PM EST (#455681) #
When you're backed by a $200 million + payroll and special consideration beyond that, I don't feel it's a feather in the cap of management to be trying for the most expensive names in the game.
Nigel - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:22 PM EST (#455682) #
Greenfrog - except that Varsho, Gimenez and Straw are all players they traded for (real assets in either prospects, players or payroll room) and the trading teams preferred something else. The list of players you set out - 32 teams in baseball would say that those players were their type.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:24 PM EST (#455683) #
Well, as John N has pointed out, if the front office is making Rogers lots of money, Rogers will continue to be happy. If revenue falls off due to lack of fan interest or an economic recession in Canada/Ontario, Rogers will no doubt take notice and do something about it.

I imagine the front office will sign at least one power bat, for marketing purposes if nothing else.
Nigel - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:32 PM EST (#455684) #
Politics aside, the simpler assumption is that the Jays aren’t currently an attractive destination for free agents from a baseball perspective. The current roster is fringy wild card caliber at best, Vlad and Bo haven’t resigned, the starters are aging and the prospect pool is barren of elite talent. Any free agent might ask: “am I going to be on a 90-100 loss team in 2026?”.
Glevin - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:35 PM EST (#455685) #
The only thing I worry about is Vlad's contract situation. If he's not resigned before the season, then he'd likely be traded and do we trust Atkins to make a good deal ?"

The only thing I wouldn't trust is trying to thread the needle too much but this front office has been fine with trades and if it comes to that, I'd rather stick this unpopular move with past front office than give it to new guy.
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 12:48 PM EST (#455686) #
My conclusion is that Toronto fans are happier having a losing team with a good farm system and lower payroll vs a competitive team with high payroll and middling prospects. Easier to hope on a future window than one that's already open and closing.
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:06 PM EST (#455687) #
Nigel - this, 100 times this. Top free agents want to win and the Jays right now are in a super-tough division (AL East & NL West the killers, NL East working on it) and aren't near the class of it (Baltimore & NYY are). Other teams have issues too - heck, even St Louis is slumping lately (first time in decades). LAD, NYY, NYM are the teams everyone is going to - they have the cash, the market, and the contending status needed to draw top players. If the Rays had money they'd probably draw a lot too (perpetual contender, many players live in Florida - no accounting for taste imo).

So what are the Jays to do? Keep building up the farm - they failed recently thus dumped a few people and now are trying again - the extra $2 mil in IFA cash will help a lot if used wisely.

Short term? DH is a hole - a big one, but just projected to be 1.1 WAR less than the best in the division. RF a massive hole (1.6 vs Judge 7.9, but just 1.4 behind the next best) but not much can be done - Springer ain't being released or benched, but he might be traded if another team has an ugly contract they want to dump. Hmmm... wonder if the Diamondback might do a Montgomery (1 year $22.5 mil) for Springer deal. Unlikely, but worth a shot. 3B is another weakness, 1.9 behind Boston (top in the division). But if they signed Alonso and put Vlad at 3B that might fix 3B and DH - do a mix/match (as I said before) of Clement at 3B, either Vlad or Alonso at DH twice a week, Clement at SS, Bo at DH once a week, Springer at DH, a kid in RF once a week. Some kid (Wagner) or Kirk at DH the other days. Gets everyone some rest, keeps the bench active. Might be a good mix. LF will probably be a mix of Schneider with Loperfido (platoon or something). I suspect they'll try Orelvis in LF in spring as well as at 2B and 3B (that power would be nice to get in the lineup, if it wasn't PED induced).

One of Santander, Alonso, whoever will be signed I suspect - the question is who and when. I just hope the Jays don't panic and give a dumb deal. 3 years, maybe 4 is as far as I'd go with any of these guys. Flaherty is still there for pitching depth, as is Nick Pivetta with many 'meh' options like Andrew Heaney out there too if the Jays are determined to move Yariel Rodriguez to the pen. Also a TON of good relievers still waiting for a contract - full list at FanGraphs with 3 expected to get $10 mil+ (Scott, Jansen, and Robertson), 5 more in the 5+ mil range (Yates, Estévez, Sewald, Kimbrel, Kelly), and 6 more with cash estimates of $2+ mil each. David Robertson I'd love to see as a setup man here, and Ryan Yarbrough wouldn't be a bad idea to bring back to finish off the pen. Heck, Ryan Borucki is out there after a terrible season, but if he'd take a AAA deal and invite I'd do that - wouldn't guarantee him a roster slot though.
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:06 PM EST (#455688) #
Free agents still available:

#7 Santander
#8 Alonso
#10 Flaherty
#11 Scott
#18 Estevez
#24 Scherzer
#25 Profar

I'd be fine with signing a bunch of 30 year olds to compete while trying to redevelop the farm. Also still trades to be made. I'll give this FO the chance to see what they do with plan A's extinguished (Burnes, Soto, Sasaki).
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:14 PM EST (#455689) #
Smart Blue Jays fans want to see a quality farm system because they know that the calibre of many free agents that come to Toronto (Troy Glaus, Corey Koskie, Frank Thomas, Kendrys Morales, Justin Turner) just aren’t that good. They’ve seen under Ricciardi and Ash what happens when you keep trying to compete year after year with a mediocre farm system, a mediocre major-league roster, and non-elite free agents.
Nigel - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:25 PM EST (#455690) #
This is all about where you are on the success curve. 2-3 years ago the Jays were an attractive destination for free agents and that was born out with significant signings. You can rage against the dying of the light all you want but they didn’t invest in trying to extend the window last offseason so you have to accept where they are now. They don’t have a good story to tell for any free agent looking for term and that includes Vlad. There is very little that can be done about 2026 right now. So, their best play is to see if they could overpay an Alonso or a Verlander on a one year/short contract. 2025 isn’t a lost cause in nearly the same way as 2026.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:26 PM EST (#455691) #
I would be OK with giving a few free agents high AAV short-term contracts in an effort to win in 2025 while Vladdy and Bo are still here.

Obviously it would have been better to add Burnes as one of those free agents, but that ship has sailed.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:34 PM EST (#455692) #
I'll say again, the best bullpens in baseball are not built by spending money on middling second-tier FAs, multiple high-end relievers, etc... it's through astute milb acquisitions (trade, FA, waiver claims) and developing internal talent.

Giving away international dollars and draft picks (which also subtracts from the draft budget) is only good if the Jays are getting high-end talent. Santander and Pivetta, for example, are not high-end talent.

If the Jays sign a couple QO FAs then they give up their 2nd and 3rd round picks (which they've had more success with than their 1st round picks) but just as importantly, they lose about $3M from their draft budget. In a year where their 1st round pick is worth $6-7M, they have a realistic chance to acquire some real talent with one of the top 10 draft budgets in the majors.

They also had some real success with their 2024 international class... I'm eager to see if some can continue their successes in North America this year.
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:53 PM EST (#455693) #
Its not an easy task to make a strong farm system through drafting. If it was more teams would do it. There is also a preference from prospects on who to sign with and I don't think Toronto is at the top of the list. Restocking and building the farm is not an ideal way to build a team here. It should be used as best as possible as a compliment.

Which teams do great at developing their farm systems consistently without the aid of high draft picks bunched from tank years? Now out of those teams you can count on one hand, how many of them are successful each year? Now how many of those teams spend big $$$$ on their payrolls. How many teams are left and do those teams have an advantage over others in attracting any type of player over the others?

You have Dodgers, Padres, Braves and probably the Mariners.
uglyone - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 01:54 PM EST (#455694) #
"Politics aside, the simpler assumption is that the Jays aren’t currently an attractive destination for free agents from a baseball perspective. The current roster is fringy wild card caliber at best, Vlad and Bo haven’t resigned, the starters are aging and the prospect pool is barren of elite talent. Any free agent might ask: “am I going to be on a 90-100 loss team in 2026?”."

That's silly Nigel - it's clearly because they care about the GDP per capita of saskatchewan.
bpoz - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 02:13 PM EST (#455695) #
Checking the 40 man roster, if Straw is added someone will have to be dropped.
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 02:44 PM EST (#455696) #
Well, guys who are drafted don't have a lot of choice - sign or go back to school and hope (pray) they do better is about it.
  • 2024: Signed all but their last 2 picks (rounds 19+20)
  • 2023: Missed rounds 14, 17 + 18
  • 2022: Missed round 16, 18, 20 (note: Kasevich & Roden below slot signings as was Ryan Jennings, & T.J. Brock - all 4 are in our top 30 prospects) - had 3 2nd round picks (Kasevich, Toman, and Doughty)
  • 2021: Missed 16 & 20, no 2nd round pick (lost due to free agency)
So clearly the Jays aren't having trouble signing their draft picks. After the top 10 rounds it is a 'who cares' situation as those guys are rarely making the majors, outside of the guys you draft just in case you have cash left (see 30th rounder Rowdy Tellez). They can develop that way - as seen by Kasevich & Roden, but have had trouble with their big money picks (see Barriera, Hoglund, Martin). The killer was the poor 2017-2020 drafts. (2019 was OK though with Alek Manoah & pencer Horwitz)

So the trick now is to develop guys so we don't have more Nate Pearson type issues (super stud, never did anything here) or flops (Barriera, Hoglund, Martin who was traded in the nick of time). I'm wondering if our GM needs to be more Tampa like - willing to deal guys who are doing well for prospects, he did a solid job of it last year. It is risky, but if free agents won't come then we need to do those types of risks.
SK in NJ - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 02:47 PM EST (#455697) #
The best comparison to what the Jays are trying to be is probably the Phillies, a consistent tax payor that spends big in free agency almost every year and make big trades. Difference is the Phillies are a desirable location, at least in part because their best player is locked up for a long time. The Jays with their payroll and resources should be a desirable location, maybe not to all American players but a good majority of them. The team just doesn't have any certainty around it after 2025.

That's why it's imperative to either extend Vladdy and live with the consequences of the massive overpay it will take to get pen to paper, or trade him before the start of the season and concede the next couple of years. Since the latter, due to business reasons, probably isn't feasible to ownership, then they'll have to suck it up and do the former. Imagine the Phillies having Nick Castellanos and Taijuan Walker on their roster without Bryce Harper and Trea Turner on it. Not saying Santander and whoever they overpay for the rotation will end up like that, but there is risk with all FAs in their 30's. You don't want to take risks like that if Vladdy isn't around beyond 2025.
uglyone - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 03:18 PM EST (#455698) #
"Its not an easy task to make a strong farm system through drafting."

this is why you should never be duped by a new FO coming in and saying "Our plan is to develop a good system with waves of prospects".

Because that's not actually a plan, that's just a basic job requirement that literally every single FO also "plans" to do.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 03:18 PM EST (#455699) #
UO, no MLB player cares about Saskatchewan. But many players already have a pro-US bias. The widening wealth disparity between the two countries isn’t going to help with that. A lot of Americans now see Canada (rightly or wrongly) as a dysfunctional socialist nation. This perception creates an extra hurdle for the Blue Jays to surmount in attracting free agents.
uglyone - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 03:24 PM EST (#455700) #
"A lot of Americans now see Canada (rightly or wrongly) as a dysfunctional socialist nation."

yes a lot of dummies do think that, just like the same dummies think the same of....

....California.
Glevin - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 03:34 PM EST (#455701) #
I noticed the big players the Jays have signed tend to be more liberal than most. The Jays biggest signings have been. I don't know Springer's politics but biracial from Connecticut usually isn't going to be far right. Gausman is not a MAGA type. Martin is Canadian, Ryu, Korean. Sure, it might be harder to get Blake Treinen types to Toronto but there are plenty of players who are fine playing in this vast communist state of ours ( sarcasm) .
Nigel - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 03:52 PM EST (#455703) #
I work for an investment company that owns several entities with large US employee bases and Glevin is generally bang on. There is a percentage of the US employees that couldn’t be enticed to Canada under any circumstances. However, there is an almost equal number of US employees that look at declining (relative) life expectancy rates in the US and soaring rural poverty rates (the US GDP growth is being absorbed by a very small slice of the US population) and who view Canada favourably. Horses for courses. I couldn’t be enticed to live in the US for any amount of money.
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 04:11 PM EST (#455705) #
Greenfrog is your source youtube's personal algorithm?
ayjackson - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 04:12 PM EST (#455706) #
so, when do pitchers and catchers report?
johnny was - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 04:15 PM EST (#455707) #
The hard right players would've been skeptical about coming to Canada already before they heard about how it all played out for Anthony Bass (who had a chance to make peace and blew the layup.) And yes, Aubrey Huff made a bit of an ass of himself by choosing to skip out on a Giants World Series reunion as a one man protest against liberal San Francisco. You're always better off without these guys who are so toxic they can't put politics aside at work for the sake of the team, however talented they may be.

If anyone is interested, Simon Lapointe did some research on the real wealth gap between Canadians and Americans in 2019, "Household Incomes in Canada and the United States: Who is Better Off?" Easy to Google an open source copy. The quick takeaway is that the overall PPP-adjusted GDP figures distort the fact that the bottom 60% in Canada is considerably better off than in the US. No one should be shocked by that.

I live in an expat household and we're professors at a red state uni. I'd do anything to get back to Canada ASAFP whereas the Mrs. would like to see things play out some before making any radical moves. I won't say anything about right or wrong, but having grown up under a communist regime her expectations of "peace, order, and good government" are considerably lower than mine.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 04:38 PM EST (#455708) #
I appreciate that post, Johnny Was. The only thing I would point out is that the study you mentioned is from 2019. The difference in GDP per capita cited by the authors, around $10k at the time, has grown considerably over the last five years. Last year the Bank of Canada's Deputy Governor addressed Canada's falling productivity and said, "You've seen those signs that say, 'In emergency, break glass.' Well, it's time to break the glass." It would be interesting to see to what extent this trend affects his overall conclusion.
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 04:43 PM EST (#455709) #
Ignoring the politics stuff - most players are strongly right wing, like it or not, just like most millionaires are due to the RW cutting their taxes to make them richer, while LW will increase the taxes on the rich. Basic self-interest voting. (political POV - anyone who voted Trump and wasn't a multi-millionaire was an idiot).

However, in the end most players are like most average people - if offered a lot more money they go where the cash is. If someone offered you a chance to do your current job for 50% more pay you'd probably move across the country to do it. Some wouldn't as they are very happy living where they are (see Corbin Burnes), but others would be happy for the adventure (especially in their 20's or 30's) of going somewhere new for more cash. The Jays have that challenge as do most non-NY and non-LA teams. Some teams have cash issues (see Florida teams) others have cheap owners (see Minnesota, and many others - billionaires tend to be super-cheapskates, I've known a few millionaires and they often were the cheapest people I knew, willing to negotiate over small things just because they could save $10 doing so, then would go blow $1k on horse race betting for fun).

So how do the Jays deal with it? Like I said, they have more cash than most teams in this boat. They also have a strong incentive to be a contender (about 1 1/2 million fans a year spread for a 75 win team and a 90 win team, plus massive spread on TV viewership). They need to invest heavily into scouting - IFA and draftable talent. I loved when AA did that for pro-scouting, skyrocketing that budget. You can probably get 10+ full time scouts for $1 mil and if they are good they'd easily pay back that investment with just 1 find (whoever found Kirk and Moreno certainly did that). I'd have to think clubs have a way to measure scouts quality, and coaches quality. I can think of a few ways of doing it (short and long term) so I'd figure with millions at stake teams would too. With the advanced computer measurement methods you should be getting a far better idea of a players potential peak far faster now (bat speed, running speed, reaction time, hand-eye coordination, etc.). These things the Jays need to invest heavily in as the payback could be a very large multiple of the cost.

In the meantime we see opportunity - SD appears ready to throw in the towel as the Dodgers move to super-team status, they have a few big contracts in Xander Bogaerts ($229.1 mil over 9 years left), Yu Darvish (4 years $67 mil), Fernando Tatis Jr ($313.1 over 10 years), Joe Musgrove ($60 over 3, TJ for 2025), and Manny Machado ($315.8 left over 9 years) are all deals they might want to get out of now. Tatis is the only one with any real value, the rest are underwater contracts. Jays bad ones are Springer (2 yrs $48.3 mil), and Myles Straw (2 years $11 mil). Wonder if there is a way to get Tatis Jr out of there? Take on Bogaerts and dump Springer & Straw on them maybe?
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 05:00 PM EST (#455710) #
Poll after poll shows over 70% of Canadians have zero interest in becoming part of the USA. I know if it happened I'd be looking at how to move to Europe very quickly. Zero interest in living in the USA even if they gave me $1 million to do so.
99BlueJaysWay - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 05:38 PM EST (#455711) #
John you beat me to it! I came here to share that Padres link you referenced, since I recall you advocating for such a move earlier in the offseason (or at least openly musing).
Glevin - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 05:39 PM EST (#455712) #
Bogaerts has maybe worst contract in baseball. It's like 10 more years at $25M a year. He's 32 and had a 2 WAR season last year and is a 95 WRC+. 10 more years... Wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll. Tatis, I'd take. He's got 10/$30m a year roughly but Tatis is probably a 5-6 WAR player if healthy and contract only takes him to 36. Doubt Padres would trade him but I'd try.
Michael - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 06:14 PM EST (#455713) #
I'm not sure why an org that tried and came 2nd or near the end for top FA like the Jays the last 2 years should look worse than the 1/2 the orgs that aren't even trying. I also agree that the Dodgers being a super team is a little bad for MLB in terms of balance and competition, but I don't think the Dodgers should be blamed for that, I think it is the bad teams primarily (I.e., ones that don't compete/try very hard and don't spend) that should be blamed with the league secondarily. The Jays have been better than many in terms of large FA over the current GM tenure, even if the last couple of years have been rough. The Jays aren't the Dodgers or Yankees in terms of payroll and success even if we all wish/think they should be/could be. I think it is too soon to tell on this offseason and its moves, and there are still some big pieces to drop that could change it drastically (extending people for a fair or terrible price, FA signings or not, the FA correctly or incorrectly predicting the value of either internal or external folks brought in, etc.). On the economic point, more than the political, folks are right that post covid Canada has gone the wrong way on GDP/capita (about -2.8% but aren't alone France is slightly worse and Germany nearly as bad) while the US has been the most successful of the G7 (US nearly +10%, Italy next best at nearly +7%; and that is with US starting at the top too). The average of the non-US, non-Canada countries is +1.3%. See the below which is a little messy due to me pulling you the 2019 and 2024 numbers for the G7 nations - original data is from statista: GDP per capita for G7 Now as others point out GDP per capita by PPP is not necessarily the be all and end all of measuring countries (wealth or income inequality from something like a gini curve would show the US is an outlier there as well with much more inequality). Now I'm also skeptical that top FA that make millions of dollars a year really care about this that much, their own personal situation is understandably going to be more front of mind - especially as their window of opportunity is small in terms of career length - (and the tax situation is undoubtably complex for them no matter what as I think they frequently may owe taxes proportionate to where they play their games no matter for which franchise). I think it is a lot of different issues for the very top of the market that likely can consider things like team strength (if they care about winning) and quality of life of location and endorsement opportunities and the like, where as for most FA it is going to be just about the money. When you move past the money Toronto is going to have more unique factors (positive and negative) for many players to consider as opposed to the other 29 franchises all in the US.
Cracka - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 06:28 PM EST (#455714) #
Checking the 40 man roster, if Straw is added someone will have to be dropped.

Straw doesn't need to be added until opening day or even later if he doesn't break camp with the team. This is one small benefit of the trade. He's 47 days shy of having 5 years of service; until he achieves that milestone, he can be outrighted off the 40-man roster but doesn't get to keep his salary if he elects free agency. It's possible that the Jays could shuttle him between Buffalo and Toronto a few times early in the year, taking advantage of the fact that no one will pick him up on waivers and that he won't elect free agency.
mendocino - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 06:52 PM EST (#455715) #
Manoah, Bastardo and Varsho will be going on the 60 day no need to drop anyone.
With 0 options Nance and Pop should be toast.
vw_fan17 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 06:53 PM EST (#455716) #
Since politics are well, "temporarily in play":
As someone who has lived in California (Bay Area, not right in SF) for 20 years after 25 in Canada (born in Europe) - the transition was really not that difficult. Stop saying "Eh", stretch "about" out to "abouuuut", and don't talk about "Canadian Tire" or Tims (was never a big fan before I left - only started drinking coffee a few years ago, so that wasn't an issue). Really doesn't feel all that different from when I worked in Toronto as a kid raised in K-W. Sure, there's ALWAYS traffic here (you never have the road to yourself), but outside rush-hour, it's not horrible, and there's a TON of stuff to do within a few hours drive.

I've definitely noticed that even here, sports-minded people tend to be more right-wing than not - especially at say, HPDE track day. Not everyone - my in-laws are very democrat/liberal and huge sports fans, but the younger they are, the more sports/car fans tend to be right-leaning, if not outright wearing MAGA hats. Mind you, the Central Valley (farmland) and basically most places outside the big cities are VERY right-leaning, etc. It's just that we have a LOT of people in big cities. I've heard it said CA has more republicans than Texas. Sadly, tech people have been moving rightward lately, which is surprising and a new thing, and hopefully won't last.

Are there certain areas I would not live in the US? Definitely - and the list of "wouldn't mind moving there" locations keeps shrinking year by year: CA, maybe CT/MA on the east coast, OR/WA/NV/AR/NM (in the reasonable parts, depends on if we're retiring or moving there for work, etc), MN if it comes down to it. I mean, in the end, we could "survive" in most of the rust belt states if we just keep our heads down and not talk politics. Not sure if we could survive "the south" - would have to draw on my fundamentalist past.

OTOH, also would have zero interest in living in, say Alberta at the moment and probably Sask/Manitoba. And unless financially set, the east coast is probably impossible (and the winters!) and not sure how welcome we would be in la belle province. So, Ontario / BC, although I hear BC is so expensive it's impossible to live there. So.. Ontario? Where my very-fundamentalist family lives and consistently cheers on Trump / Poilievre and watches Hannity/Carlson/Jim Bakker?

From what a friend has told me, if Poilievre gets elected, in his opinion, he will be worse for Canada than Trump will be for the US, so we're slow-rolling our "emergency getaway to Canada" until we have a better idea of what's what. Getting Canadian passports for the kids, but not moving just yet. The wife is a US citizen, so she would have to "visit" and overstay or something, if it comes down to it. Going to see if CA's "fight Trump" fund works out reasonably well, and hopefully, in 2 years the midterms swing one of the two houses back to sanity..

I agree with the GDP thing in terms of "it feels right" - lately, all I hear is how Canadians are broke and no one can afford housing on the Leafs group on reddit. And there are no doctors available, etc.

Again, no telling what the future brings, and it could easily turn even CA into the worst thing I've ever experienced (my parents were refugees in WW2, so hopefully not on their level). So far, I have to say, it's been above / better than where I would have expected to be had I stayed in Canada. My job pays for most of my healthcare, which is generally available and emergency room waits are not crazy, unlike the story of my family members recent 5+ hour wait in the middle of the night. OTOH, my parents in their 80s seem to get excellent care, so it seems hit or miss. After being laid off for a year (software engineer), found the best, highest-paying job of my life. Hoping for ~5 more years, and then retire before 60.. After that, who knows where we'll go.
dalimon5 - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 07:29 PM EST (#455717) #
Straw has already been assigned to AA.
John Northey - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 07:51 PM EST (#455718) #
Makes sense - if you don't need to put him on the 40 man then the level in the minors you put him at is irrelevant. We will see if he has any value at all. Hopefully he does, but the #1 thing is to spend that extra $2 mil wisely on IFA's who can help. Remember, guys like Kirk & Moreno were not on anyone's radar when signed.

Checking MLB's top prospect list I see the following still available...
  • #11: Manny Cedeno a SS from San Pedro de Macorís (Jays have had a bit of luck there with SS in the past). Tied to the Yankees but not signed yet.
  • #12 Ayden Johnson another SS, bat first (nice) from the Bahamas. Tied to the A's but not signed yet.
  • #15 Diego Tornes an OF from Cuba, switch hitter with power from both sides and a strong arm. Tied to Atlanta but, yeah, not signed yet. FG has him higher, 4th highest non Japanese player at a 45+ value.
  • #21 Jhoan De La Cruz SS from, you guessed it, San Pedro de Macorís. Tied to the Padres, but hasn't been signed.
Hopefully the Jays still sign the guys listed for them (Crisopher Polanco, Juan Sanchez - both SS, among others) but these others are certainly worth digging into. Steal the guy the Yankees or Atlanta have and that'd be fun.
Marc Hulet - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 08:13 PM EST (#455719) #
Teams really don't steal from other teams unless the players have been given permission to look elsewhere (like this year with the Dodgers and Padres). It's kind of like the offer sheet in hockey - you just run the risk of putting a target on your back.

Most of these kids signing have been training at their teams' facilities since they were 13, 14... training, eating, learning English, etc... it's like family by the time they sign.

It's more the pop-up guys that get signed... someone just discovered like Kirk was or a new Cuban defector, etc.
greenfrog - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 08:19 PM EST (#455720) #
Some good, thoughtful, informative posts in this thread.

And Michael: thanks for compiling that data.
Gerry - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 09:21 PM EST (#455721) #
The Athletic has a pretty detailed story about the Sasaki signing. Here are some points:

Many around baseball perceived the fix was in and he was only going to the Dodgers. The rumours were so bad that MLB stepped in to monitor the process

Sasaki was generally quiet during the team meetings except when the discussion turned to pitching philosophies and mechanics

On Wednesday the Padres told Sasaki's agent that they were willing to max out their pool and offer Sasaki $10M, presumably through trades.

As we know the Dodgers did trade for pool money after they knew they won.

The Jays traded for more pool space to try and head off the Dodgers at the last minute. The article called it a dubious strategy and one exec said his phone was blowing up with "WTF Jays?"

The Jays inclusion in the final decision puzzled rival execs as the Jays are not regarded within the industry as a team that excels at pitching development.

When the Dodgers had their final meeting with Sasaki they had Magic Johnson there (Sasaki is a basketball fan), Freddie Freeman, Mookie Betts, Will Smith and Ohtani.

Done deal.
christaylor - Saturday, January 18 2025 @ 09:49 PM EST (#455722) #
I like people sharing their thoughts on living situations. I didn't realize how many posters here are also ex-pats.

On the sports fandom thing - I live in Cambridge, MA and a few blocks away is an LGBTQ sports bar, a socialist hotspot that always has baseball on in the summer.

I know I've been lucky but since coming to the US, I've had three long standing health issues taken care of an covered by insurance as well as six rounds of IVF with my wife.

I bike or walk to work and have some of the best colleagues and collaborators in the world available to meet for a chat.

I stayed in Canada for my undergrad and PhD because of a bias toward living in the States. Canadians lean too heavily on the national identity of being not-American.

And boy oh boy were the Boston Red Sox ever fun to hate watch during my first summer here during their dying season of 2011.

Getting back to my original comment about the overestimation of "playing for a whole country" I want to reframe it this way with a question.

If Vlad were to do an endorsement deal with a MA (oven just greater Boston area) pizza chain would be be paid more or less than from a deal from national Canadian Pizza chain. Silly example I know, but this is where Canada's sick economy (too reliant on resources extraction and housing) comes into play. The Jays, for a player with marketing potential, need to make up those dollars that are a pittance in Canada (not just because of the economy but also the dominance of hockey) versus even local deals in the US.

Vlad wanting a 10/$400 deal seems a reasonable place to start as he is a marketable play who'll be giving up a lot in an economy that has little offer him other than on-field salary.
Michael - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 02:05 AM EST (#455723) #
Yeah, the expats are strong likely because we aren't naturally around jays fans. I'm very similar to vw fan in that I grew up in kw and have been in tech in the bay area (santa clara not sf) since 2000. I also was just laid off this past week, so hope my outcome follows yours there too.

Oh, and to be like Chris I also lived 4 great years in Cambridge MA before coming out here and enjoyed a number of Pedro games in fenway.

Gerry - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:03 AM EST (#455724) #
Tanner Scott just signed for four years and $72M. Can you guess which team signed him?

The Dodgers.
Eephus - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:16 AM EST (#455725) #
I'm starting to dislike these "The Dodgers"... just a little.

(though I still love Freddie Freeman)
dalimon5 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:42 AM EST (#455726) #
Rob Manfred has failed owners and fans of baseball by allowing that Ohtani contract to stand. Less than 2 million/year cost to the dodgers allows them to go sign Yamamoto, Snell, Glasnow, Sasaki and Scott.
Joe - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:44 AM EST (#455727) #
Please don't perpetuate the falsehood that the Dodgers are only spending $2MM/year on Ohtani. $44MM(ish)/year is going into a trust account, to be used to pay him out starting in 2034 or whatever.
Marc Hulet - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:47 AM EST (#455728) #
I enjoyed watching quite a few Dodgers games last year and will continue to do so this year.

There are only a small number of teams that will actually spend big money to sign free agents - in part because the gap between a mid-level free agent and an internally-developed player (for those teams good at that) isn't that big... It's not worth spending money on the more expensive player... and also likely paying for their decline years.

The Jays are like the 16-year-old seated at the kids table at Christmas dinner. They so badly want to join the parents table but they haven't earned the right.

One of the reasons I think a rebuild is now the only option is that they are incredibly undesirable to the top free agents, they would have to way over pay mid-level free agents and even top amateur players are now likely going to rebuke the Jays pre-draft discussions. I've also read things that suggest agents dislike dealing with the Jays.

The front office's poor communication (which Shapiro highlighted as a weakness two winters ago) has not gotten better. In fact, it's probably worse now.

I also find it interesting that the Dodgers and Padres have all signed their international FAs now but there have been zero pictures/news on the Jays doing their signings. They've already made those kids wait long enough... or maybe they don't want to sign with the club anymore either.

L
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:51 AM EST (#455729) #
The Ohtani deferral does not aid the Dodgers in either the CBT calc or in actual cash flow as the PV of the contact is added to the annual payroll for CBT and that amount must be funded into escrow. The deferral is a tax structure and does not distort MLB payroll fairness.
Glevin - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:58 AM EST (#455730) #
Yeah, deferrals are basically just to screw California. Don't think they're good for that reason.
85bluejay - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:59 AM EST (#455731) #
Yeah, I find it strange that there has been no news about the Jays signing even the guys who were reportedly committed to them.

Marc Hulet, how would you compare & contrast Myles Straw & Steward Berroa - I was hoping Berroa would get some playing time with Varsho's uncertain status.
Marc Hulet - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:06 PM EST (#455732) #
Berroa has much more upside with the bat, both have good speed but Straw is probably a stronger glove (Berroa can make some gaffe in the field and on the base paths). Berroa is also a great clubhouse guy - always upbeat, engaged and the first to celebrate his teammates' successes.

I'd have personally given Berroa a shot - as it also shows other minor leaguers that the Jays give their players opportunities.
dalimon5 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:18 PM EST (#455733) #
Theres definitely advantages or else if there weren't then they would have just paid him more annually over 10 years. You only need the money in the bank on the day of the signing. Saying they into an account each year is no different than holding the money in your chequings account and then paying it out down the road.

"The historic contract impacts taxes, both the Dodgers’ and Ohtani’s, and its annual value varies depending if you break it down over 10 years ($70 million), for luxury tax purposes ($46 million), for the players union calculations ($43.8 million), over the 20 years it will be paid ($35 million) or its 2024 payout ($2 million)."

"Ohtani’s contract calls for $2 million annual salaries and $68 million deferred each year without interest to be paid in $68 million instalments between 2034 and 2043."

According to online sources he is paid 2 million each year until 2034. The Dodgers are saving over 60 million/year by not having to pay out that cash each year.

If i'm missing something and the Dodgers are in fact paying the money each year then let me know. Contracts is not my thing but you should also be careful not to spread falsehoods if you're not 100% sure yourself.
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:24 PM EST (#455734) #
The Dodgers aren’t paying Ohtani the money but they are paying the PV (between $40-44m each year) into an escrow account. There is a benefit here and it’s all on Ohtani paying next to no California taxes. There’s no benefit to the Dodgers (other than making Ohtani happy).
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:27 PM EST (#455735) #
Berroa sounds like someone who would mostly sit on the bench with John Schneider as the manager, even with the veteran outfielders on the team posting a .650 OPS for months on end.
dalimon5 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:28 PM EST (#455736) #
Nigel, PV?
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:31 PM EST (#455737) #
I do not think Vladdy or Bo will be playing for the Blue Jays in 2026. Just a hunch.
ISLAND BOY - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:32 PM EST (#455738) #
After the Tanner Scott signing, the LA Dodgers estimated luxury tax payroll will be over 375 million. In 2023, their revenue was 549 million. Also in 2023, only 11 teams made more than 375 million in revenue.
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:33 PM EST (#455739) #
Sorry - present value. The current value of the deferred salary that Ohtani will get paid in the future.
scottt - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:34 PM EST (#455740) #
It's been an incredible offseason for the Dodgers.
It's only an issue for the Jays if they become the American Leagues Champ.

Things with the Yankees are more uncertain.
They really need to drop Stroman who wouldn't be the worse 5th starter in Toronto with the improved defense.
Just need to sign a LF/DH first.

Baltimore hasn't done a whole lot.
How good will Charlie Morton be at 41?

Boston needs to add a right bat.
dalimon5 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:35 PM EST (#455741) #
I see. So Joe was right. My bad. I don't dislike the Dodgers but I do dislike the fact that all the players seem to want to go there.
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:39 PM EST (#455742) #
Boston added Crochet without giving up any of their top few prospects. That is something the Blue Jays would not have been able to do.
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:40 PM EST (#455743) #
The Ohtani contract is an Ohtani driven tax dodge and little else. It was not understood by the media at the time of signing.
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:42 PM EST (#455744) #
There is much to dislike about Manfred and the current state of baseball economics but the Ohtani deal really isn’t on that list.
dalimon5 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:54 PM EST (#455745) #
Blue Jays and Cubs were in on Scott before he went to Dodgers. Seems real now that the Blue Jays won't be getting anyone here without massive overpay.
vw_fan17 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:56 PM EST (#455746) #
Sorry for the personal message: Michael: email sent regarding job / resume, let me know if you don't get it.
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 12:58 PM EST (#455747) #
Scott has been great the last couple of years, and he'll likely be good in 2025 as well, but it's worth mentioning that his career walk rate is very high (4.93/9IP). Apart from 2023 when his BB rate was a relatively low 2.77/9IP, his annual BB rate has ranged from 4.35 to 6.61 per 9IP.
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 01:10 PM EST (#455748) #
Dodgers additions this off-season:

Snell, Sasaki (for peanuts), Scott, Kim

So, two frontline starting pitchers, an elite closer, and a quality backup infielder.

Next off-season: Vladdy or Bo?
vw_fan17 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 01:11 PM EST (#455749) #
Yeah, as a CA resident, I dislike Ohtani for cheating CA out of almost all the taxes, while benefiting from the state to become filthy rich. At some point of $$, it seems almost everyone starts caring about every penny: see also John Tavares (Maple Leafs) and the the CRA. I was always raised to happily pay taxes when well employed because it meant you're doing great (give to caesar what is caesar's, etc). But I suspect a lot of those same people, despite not being "wealthy" now strongly support tax cuts for the rich (which actually RAISED our taxes, as intended by the right-wing as a "screw you CA" in the last Trump administration). Sorry, end of politics now, I swear.


Anyway, $375M payroll for the Dodgers? Oakland had a $62M payroll (give or take) for 2024 - which means LA could field an ENTIRE 6-team DIVISION of Oakland As for the 2025 season from that payroll.. Guarantee themselves a division winner for once :-) I think the Onion needs to update their article: Yankees sign all of MLB
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 01:57 PM EST (#455750) #
vw_fan17 - yeah, this is getting silly. You'd swear MLB is letting this happen to up the pressure on the players union for a salary cap and international draft (both of which would up MLB profits - otherwise they wouldn't push for it, remember billionaires always, always want more, no amount is enough).

So the Dodgers were $107,397,814 over the luxury tax base before signing Scott, $72 mil/4 years ($21 mil deferred of course) so roughly adds $18 mil to their total - so $125.4 mil over the tax level. This means a tax of 50% on first $20 mil, 62% on 2nd $20 mil, 95% on 3rd $20 mil, 110% on the rest ($77 mil) = $10+$12.4+$19+$84.7 = $126.1 mil in tax to the other clubs => net payroll post tax of $487,098,031 (and they'll probably add to it as well) - the Jays highest end of season luxury tax payroll was $257,798,413 (+$5.6 mil in taxes = $263.4 mil net) in 2023, so the Dodgers are closing in on double the Jays highest payroll ever. Remember, anyone they sign now is costing them more than double the contract so adding Kershaw (should happen) would probably be a $10 mil contract costing them $21 mil post tax. That would put them over the $500 mil mark for net payroll costs post tax.

Phew, crazy stuff. Wonder if California can figure out a way to tax deferred salary? Safe to say MLB will push hard for a hard cap next time and at the very least should get another tier at 200% tax or something nuts like that. Players will insist on it going to a fund for all players to share equally I suspect or to their pension fund so guys with fewer years can get more benefits (that I'd be fully in favor of as those who don't get 10 years in the majors often spent years in the minors and have little to show for it). That'd be better than going to, say, the Tampa Bay owners pockets.
Nigel - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 03:27 PM EST (#455751) #
There’s a reason that Dodgers’ ownership bought Chelsea in the EPL. The economic systems are similar in that: very limited payroll constraints, very modest revenue sharing, the nexus between payroll and winning is as close to absolute as you can get in sports and consistently running higher payrolls and winning lead to consistently higher brand revenue growth. The Dodgers aren’t abusing the system they are doing exactly what the system was set up for/ encourages.
scottt - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 03:32 PM EST (#455752) #
The current CBA expires at the end of 2026.
I think people will worry about others things in 2025.
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 04:47 PM EST (#455753) #
FYI: For fun I've been accused of "This has to be an Atkins burner." by Mike Wilner (on Blue Sky) because I am not joining in the 'fire Atkins' push he has going at full blast. I mentioned how 13 years ago top bonus' for IFA prospects was over $4 mil and climbing then the cap came in. So $2 mil of space now might be worth $10+ mil in prospect value, thus making it worthwhile to do that, much like AA did his trades for impending free agents in 2010 to gain sandwich picks before MLB changed the rules. Now, do I think Atkins/Shapiro are doing that? No. But it would be a wise way to go about business. Trade for as much cap as you can and then sign every guy you can. With IFA bulk matters. That is how the Jays got Kirk & Moreno - both were cheap, but lord knows how many guys like them the Jays signed to find those 2 gems. You need cap space to do that, as the cap now applies to all bonus' over $10k.
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 04:52 PM EST (#455754) #
Agreed scottt - 2025 has a lot that is going to go wrong, and much worse. We could see right wingers running the US, Canada, along with much of the western world - parties that are owned 100% by the mega rich. This could lead to some very, very ugly stuff. Heck, look at the disasters happening now due to climate change (fires, hurricanes that are once in a century types now coming annually) and knowing these mega rich people don't care one iota as they think their cash will protect them (screw their kids and grandkids). It is a sad, sad world right now. There was crazy potential for something great but greed and hate took over. /rant

OK, back to baseball. 2027 could be a lost year - the owners are lining it up to be imo, with the way the Dodgers are buying up everyone as are the Mets (the Yankees certainly not going cheap either), while the A's and Rays are becoming jokes in minor league parks for 2025/26 and maybe longer. Other teams also going cheap as always seeing no real hope so might as well live off revenue sharing.
pooks137 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 05:41 PM EST (#455755) #
I mentioned how 13 years ago top bonus' for IFA prospects was over $4 mil and climbing then the cap came in. So $2 mil of space now might be worth $10+ mil in prospect value

Yeah, I think this is the way to frame it rather than "the FO dummies traded 11 million dollars away for nothing".

As I've posted here a few times, the FO traded for 1.5 million in bonus IFA cap room in the spring of 2019 in exchange for Kendrys Morales and Dwight Smith Jr.

They got creative and signed Cuban defector Yosver Zulueta, Sem Robberse and another 18 y/o Dutch prospect named Casmiri.

If the Straw trade is reframed as taking on 11 million in dead money in exchange for the 2025 equivalent of Zulueta, Robberse, Casmiri and possibly another prospect or two in value, it may still not be advisable but makes way more sense in baseball terms.

ayjackson - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:07 PM EST (#455756) #
Makes sense pooks, but from the Athletic article Gerry summarized, I'm not sure that's what Sh(apiroand)atkins were thinking.
85bluejay - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:25 PM EST (#455757) #
Two years ago, the Jays signed IFA Bonilla for $4.1m that's not looking like a good investment at the moment - So I don't think $2M will get you that great a prospect and certainly not worth taking on all that dead money even as I expect that's how the FO will spin it.
Glevin - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:45 PM EST (#455758) #
With IFA, it's often better to get more guys than the top IMO. 16 is so young so players develop differently and plenty of elite players have signed for nothing and plenty of flops have signed for huge bonuses. Jays pursuing Estevez which is interesting. The bullpen seems fine to me but 1) relievers are often the most tradable assets 2) bullpen was so so bad last year 3) maybe they move Hoffman into Rotation?
mendocino - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:50 PM EST (#455759) #
MLB
Roki Sasaki, RHP, Japan: Dodgers More »
Josuar De Jesus Gonzalez, SS, D.R.: Giants ($2,997,500) More »
Elian Peña, SS, D.R.: Mets ($5,000,000) More »
Cris Rodriguez, OF, D.R.: Tigers ($3,197,500) More »
Andrew Salas, SS/OF, USA/Ven.: Marlins ($3,700,000) More »
Yorger Bautista, OF, Ven.: Mariners ($2,100,000) More »
Kevin Alvarez, OF, Cuba: Astros ($2,000,000) More »
Dorian Soto, SS, D.R.: Red Sox ($1,400,000) More »
Maykel Coret, OF, D.R.: Rays ($1,600,000) More »
Juan Cabada, SS , D.R.: Cubs ($1,500,000) More »
Manny Cedeno, SS, D.R.
Ayden Johnson, SS, Bah.
Wilfri De La Cruz, SS/3B, D.R.: Cubs ($2,300,000) More »
Brayan Cortesia, SS, Ven.: Nationals ($1,920,000) More »
Diego Tornes, OF, Cuba: Braves ($2,497,500) More »
Darwing Ozuna, OF, D.R.: A's ($850,000)
Gabriel Davalillo, C, Ven.: Angels ($2,000,000) More »
Liberts Aponte, SS, Ven.: Reds ($1,900,000) More »
Kendry Martínez, SS, D.R.: Mariners ($2,500,000) More »
Raymer Medina, SS, D.R.: Rays ($1,100,000) More »
uglyone - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:57 PM EST (#455760) #
when we nickel and dime vladdy over $5m per year difference, remember what we're paying Myles Straw.
lexomatic - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 06:58 PM EST (#455761) #
The problem with bulk IFA is the league capping the number of minor league teams. Have they capped DSL? because there's only so many spots.
Would be curious if anyone (Hulet?) has any reference as to depth of quality of minor league prospects since that contraction. It is reasonable to assume that more prospects means more chance for lesser ones to develop & blossom. But also means more time and focus for better prospects. It would be interesting. Assuming not enough years of data to be much use.

I'm wondering if there was a cultural (or literal) translation issue with the Sasaki situation - where the team thought they were in a good place to get the extra IFA pool. But without any assurance, I also don't understand why you make the CLE trade.  Feels like we've had lots of veteran players brought in "for contention" that blocked better & cheaper minor league options. But really only potentially marginal upgrades if it worked out. Feels like a FO weakness.


JB21 - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:05 PM EST (#455762) #
"Yeah, as a CA resident, I dislike Ohtani for cheating CA out of almost all the taxes, while benefiting from the state to become filthy rich. At some point of $$, it seems almost everyone starts caring about every penny: see also John Tavares (Maple Leafs) and the the CRA. I was always raised to happily pay taxes when well employed because it meant you're doing great (give to caesar what is caesar's, etc). But I suspect a lot of those same people, despite not being "wealthy" now strongly support tax cuts for the rich (which actually RAISED our taxes, as intended by the right-wing as a "screw you CA" in the last Trump administration). Sorry, end of politics now, I swear."

VW Fan, the majority of your tax dollars go towards a militarized police state (or sent international to fund Colonialism), while actual social services get mostly ignored.
uglyone - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:11 PM EST (#455763) #

Interesting that Bichette was among those that traveled to Toronto to pitch Sasaki. https://t.co/jCtKFfpHYn

— Brandon Wile (@Brandon_N_Wile) January 19, 2025
uglyone - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:12 PM EST (#455764) #

It didn't lead to a deal with Roki Sasaki, but Bo Bichette, Daulton Varsho & Chad Green still deserve lots of credit for making the trip to Toronto to welcome Sasaki and support the organization https://t.co/mpKoD6weqz

— Ben Nicholson-Smith (@bnicholsonsmith) January 19, 2025
Marc Hulet - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:16 PM EST (#455765) #
There's no cap on players in the DSL leagues. More teams than not now field two DSL teams. The Jays only have one, which probably doesn't help.

The best orgs at signing international players include Seattle, Cleveland, LA Dodgers, Boston and Milwaukee. Of those clubs, only Seattle has just one club. The others all have two. It's more common now for teams to keep DSL players in that league for 2-3 years unless they're big money players and then they only stay for one.

BTW apparently Varsho, Green and *Bichette* were at the second Sasaki meeting.
Paul D - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:24 PM EST (#455766) #
That is interesting. Forgot about rumours - would you want Bichette signed to.. Say a 5% above market deal to stay in Toronto? Maybe 8 years?
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 07:55 PM EST (#455767) #
A good question is what would a contract for Bo look like? Can't imagine one being agreed to pre-season end but lets guess. Pre-2024 he was a steady 3-4 WAR guy for 3 years, but last year was near replacement level. Lots of concerns about his long term viability due to his swing. 3-4 WAR is worth $30+ mil a year, being a SS he could move to 2B then OF as he ages without too much worry vs Vlad who is 1B/DH (maaaaybe 3B). 5/$150 is not unreasonable. But 10/$300 mil? Can't see it. This is his age 27 season so any deal would be for age 28-33 or 28-37. A 5 year gets his peak years, a 10 year you are paying for decline as well. I could see a 7-8 year deal $210/$240 mil range as possible if he has a strong 2025, a weak 2025 and he'll be lucky to get a 3-5 year deal. So tons of variables.
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 08:56 PM EST (#455768) #
Bo Bichette, Daulton Varsho & Chad Green still deserve lots of credit

Where was Vladdy?
jgadfly - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 09:05 PM EST (#455769) #
Some questions ... I couldn't find any recent updates on the Blue Jay Dominican Complex but came across a couple of videos that may explain Milwaukee and Baltimore rise up the player development ladder ... Also came across team rosters for the Dominican Summer League which is interesting ... one can probably deduce the reasons for the limited success of the Jay production of prospects ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UvaY3uAecU

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/team/dominican-academy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dominican_Summer_League_team_rosters

A couple of former Jay sitings... In the Milwaukee video at 11 seconds in is that who I think it is ... Also why is George Bell listed as as an Oriole batting instructor ?
Among the many things I didn't know was that the 1992 Dominican Blue Jays had a record of 68 wins & 2 losses according to Wikipedia ... Also some of the Google photos of the Jays complex are perhaps somewhat telling ...
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 09:39 PM EST (#455770) #
It is quite sad. Back in the 80's the Jays were well ahead of most but Gord Ash tossed that into the trash can (might have mainly been Interbrew, the Jays owners then, but Ash was in charge) which was followed by JPR who appeared to have no interest in IFA. Not sure if AA did anything to rebuilt it, as he was focused on pro scouting mostly iirc. With the Jays history and ex-players in the DR there is no excuse for not having a top of the line complex. Found some photos and location of it via Waze. More photos are on Google, but nothing much. Many seem to be from 2018 so are a bit dated.
greenfrog - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 09:56 PM EST (#455771) #
I'm confused about a couple of things in the wake of the Sasaki events.

First, was Sasaki ever seriously considering signing with Toronto, or were his visits to Toronto (and maybe San Diego) simply a performance to suggest to MLB that he was always open to signing with a non-LA team?

Second, was the primary goal of the Straw acquisition to impress Sasaki's camp and obtain pool money to sign him, in the absence of any indication from Sasaki that he was inclined to sign with Toronto? Or did the Blue Jays front office believe that it would be a good move whether Sasaki signed with them or not?

We may never know the answers. But it seems to me that these are important questions.
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:35 PM EST (#455772) #
Agreed greenfrog - seems MLB did an investigation before this all started to make sure the Dodgers didn't already have a deal in place, but didn't find anything. As to the Jays - one of the Dodgers starters said Sasaki was high on the Jays but that he felt the Dodgers would win in the end iirc. I suspect once a few people retire from the front office we'll get more details on both this and the Ohtani situation last year (among other things) as someone will write a book on it.

As to the situation now - the Jays need to start hunting hard for guys who were missed by other clubs or who haven't signed yet and try to get them to break any pre-deals they had to come here - the old 'money talks, bs walks' rule. They also need to get moving on signing their own pre-agreement guys. If I was in their shoes I'd have a team of scouts going all over key baseball areas subject to IFA rules and try to find talent that others missed, this is an opportunity - gotta use it. Meanwhile they need to decide if Santander is worth whatever he is asking for and either sign or say 'goodbye' to him and move on to the next guy on their list. I'd be talking with SD about what they are going to do about their ugly situation - nuclear division with the Dodgers, is it worth it to blow what they are on players? Would they consider trading some ML talent here and if so how to divide up the pay for overpaid guys. Their last 2 years saw the highest attendance ever for SD (3.2 and 3.3 million) so they might not want to move on, but last year their games were online only ($99 for the season) produced by MLB and will do the same this year - they only made $15 mil from it from what I've found which is pathetic (about what the Jays were making around 1990 iirc). The average is around $75 mil and the Jays should be far above that (given they have more viewers than any other team last time viewership numbers were available) but won't be as Rogers has a strong incentive to hide the value of the Jays TV rights from MLB (revenue sharing).

So if SD is down, say, $50 mil from what they should be for TV cash (probably a low estimate) then they might need to clear out a big deal or two. Manny Machado would be sweet to have at 3B (118 OPS+ last year, 125 lifetime, a 3-7 fWAR player each of the past 4 years). Only problem is his contract is crazy (owed $315.8 mil over the next 9 years - $35 mil per year). Obviously you'd need SD to pay a chunk of that, but dang would he be nice to have. Obviously the big gun there is Fernando Tatis Jr. (owed $313.1 mil over 10 years, $31.3 per year) - could the Jays take on both to allow maximum cash savings for SD? Would SD go for it? If their cash situation is getting ugly they might. That would add $66.3 mil per year to the payroll though - ouch. If they took Springer back ($48.2 mil total over 2 years) that'd help the short term cash crunch. Not sure what would be needed in a deal like that. It'd be a gusty one for both teams, but could help both a LOT. Push the Jays back into contention, push the Padres to save money (but piss off fans). Jays would have some dead cash on the payroll in a few years probably, but that is a Rogers problem and if they start developing players not as big of a deal. Plus the payroll could be emptied a lot after 2025 (Vlad, Bo, Bassitt, Green = $78.6 mil) depending how things go. I've been talking this one up for months but it just makes so much sense for both teams given their situations (SD in a nuclear war with LAD but without 10% of the firepower, and no TV revenue).
John Northey - Sunday, January 19 2025 @ 11:46 PM EST (#455773) #
Well, now the rumor mill is saying the Jays are chasing Max Scherzer. IMO not a bad idea - with his recent injury issues and his high (super-high) end potential (he is a future HOF'er after all) the Jays can take the risk and hope he lasts at least half a season, until Manoah gets back. If not then you just put Rodriguez back into the rotation and hope Max's experience can rub off on the kids (2 WS rings, 3 Cy's). If they can get him for, say, $10 mil, that'd be good. But not at his old deal ($43 mil).
Marc Hulet - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 06:42 AM EST (#455775) #
But here's the thing... maybe someone else will get Scherzer for $10M but the Jays would have to overpay to get him. Does that really make sense for a player who's almost toast... with a budget already questionable after Straw, and for a team with these many holes?

I'm sure Atkins and Shapiro will try anything out of desperation to save their jobs but signing Scherzer would be the epitome of a desperate move.
greenfrog - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 07:44 AM EST (#455776) #
I have no problem with adding Scherzer in addition to other, bigger moves. But expectations should be kept low (he's going to turn 41 in July). Best case scenario is probably around 15-20 useful starts and around 1 to 1.5 WAR from him. Worst case is he gets shelled and/or injured in the early going, necessitating his release.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 07:46 AM EST (#455777) #
It’s a 1 year deal, Marc. I don’t even think that qualifies when it comes to desperate moves, let alone the epitome of desperate moves
adrianveidt - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 07:58 AM EST (#455778) #
At times it seems the only team trying to improve is the Dodgers.
John Northey - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 08:41 AM EST (#455780) #
At times it seems Jay fans don't want the team to improve - a shot at signing a HOF pitcher at the end for 1 year (the rule is there are no bad 1 year contracts) and fans are mad that he is at that end. For $10-$20 mil (read on FG they expect him to sign for $18 mil) I see it as a risk, but not a massive one. Worst case is Rogers loses a bit of money. Right now no free agent is taking the Jays cash, so it hardly would stop them from doing something. Santander really doesn't want to come here I think, Alonso really wants to stay in NY, Profar's limits are obvious and large, no one seems to like Flaherty, Bregman wants waaay too many years/$. So FA is very limited this year for help at this point (and maybe at any point for the Jays). Unless the Jays are knocking on the playoff door or offering an extra year they can't seem to sign guys. So no worries about budget, they need to trade or take what they can get.
Glevin - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 08:49 AM EST (#455781) #
Scherzer is perfect move IMO. One year, no pick, fills a need, and potentially tradable if things fall apart. Issue for me is LF where Jays have let almost all the interesting guys with no QO sign. O'Neill, Conforto, Kepler (I know he's RF) and Winker would all have been reasonable signings with no future cost beyond money. Profar and Hayes (VS LHP only) are only two guys I like left. Still think a trade makes sense for something. Jays have too many MI and OF at AAA level. There are some trade options likely available like Gurriel or Taylor Ward or Jesus Sanchez but nothing too exciting.
James W - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 09:47 AM EST (#455783) #
the calibre of many free agents that come to Toronto (Troy Glaus, Corey Koskie, Frank Thomas, Kendrys Morales, Justin Turner) just aren’t that good.

Troy Glaus and Corey Koskie were acquired by Toronto in trades.
Marc Hulet - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 09:49 AM EST (#455784) #
Scherzer makes more sense for Houston or Detroit or Baltimore or Milwaukee or even Cincinnati... a club with good young talent, one or two moves away from being a really good club that has good pitching depth than can inspire those young pitchers, appear in 15 or so games and then hope to have something for October. He's a final piece/luxury for a team in a better position to make the playoffs and win some post-season games.

Toronto is five moves away from being a legit contender.

Maybe Toronto has those moves lined up and, like their international signings, they're waiting for LA to finalize the Sasaki deal to finally move on (hoping the physical blows the deal) but I doubt it.
85bluejay - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 10:31 AM EST (#455785) #
As Glevin noted, Scherzer at a reasonable 1 year deal would a good gamble for the jays - Unfortunately, unless an overpay or lack of options, I don't see the attraction of the Jays for Scherzer.
pooks137 - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 10:43 AM EST (#455786) #
Troy Glaus and Corey Koskie were acquired by Toronto in trades.

December 14, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the Toronto Blue Jays.

January 6, 2006: Traded by the Toronto Blue Jays to the Milwaukee Brewers for Brian Wolfe.

I think you confused Koskie's FA signing by JPR from Minnesota with his later salary dump trade to Milwaukee to clear room on the roster for Glaus and Shea Hillebrand.

Koskie in 2005 was probably JPR's 1st "big" FA signing after being hired years before to oversee austerity.

Hard to believe the Koskie signing was 20 years ago. And that Corey is only 51.

cascando - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 10:47 AM EST (#455787) #
At this point, I would like the Jays to take the money they were willing to spend on Ohtani or Soto and just give it to Vlad and Bo. 10/450 for Vladdy and 10/300 for Bichette, I think that gets it done. Perhaps an overpay for both, but the alternative is basically rebuilding from scratch with very little of note in the cupboard. I do not see trades of either as a realistic possibility because, while it might be the right move for the franchise, it would be very bad for the immediate and future job prospects of Atkins and Shapiro.
John Northey - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 11:14 AM EST (#455788) #
10/$450 for Vlad and 10/$300 for Bo would be an overpay without much doubt unless both have very strong 2025's. Now, maybe it is worth it if you feel there isn't a reasonable alternative coming through the system, plus, of course, the difficulty in getting FA's to sign lately.

FA Post 2025: Vlad, Bo, Bassitt, Green - likely replacements are ???, Leo Jiménez (Nimmala in a few years), Manoah/Rodriguez (whowever isn't in the rotation at years end), ???.
FA Post 2026: Springer, Gausman, Varsho, Garcia, Kirk. Replacments - lord knows. No real catchers that are close/good, a few starting prospects kicking around, a few OF's too but we don't trust them to do LF this year, why CF & RF post 2026? Berrios could opt out post 2026 (just $48 mil over 2 left on his deal then)

Bottom line, the Jays will need to spend to replace a few key players or get really lucky in development and fast. Is locking in $75 mil for Vlad & Bo the best idea given all those needs that are coming? Maybe, but I'm not sure. If you feel confident that we can find 3 OF'ers from Clase, Loperfido, Berroa, Roden, etc. - I see Orelvis Martinez moving to the OF due to his defensive issues in the IF and high power potential, Wagner will be a super-utility guy I suspect. For starting we need 2-3 replacements quickly too - Yesavage, Tiedemann, Bloss, Macko, Rojas, Fernando Perez, Khal Stephen, etc. might give us 1 or 2 if we are lucky, odds are one or more will end up in the pen, and a few will end up forgotten by spring 2027. If the Jays are out of it come July hopefully those post 2025 free agents can bring in a few good prospects. Figuring out catching is the biggest issue imo - not one in the top 30 list and none look really interesting to me in the minors doing a quick eyeball check (age/OPS/level).
bpoz - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 11:15 AM EST (#455789) #
ST opens Feb 13 and Opening day is March 27th. I fully expect the Jays to make more moves. The big moves will be announced ASAP but small moves like Int'l signings will be announced when the Jays around to it.

So far so good because today is Jan 20.
John Northey - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 11:49 AM EST (#455790) #
Baseball is a good distraction while the US tosses out human rights today (transgender rights in the toilet now). Yes, that pisses me off as I have friends who are trans who are royally screwed down there (and might be here too in the very near future). That's it for my rants about that evil here.

All projections have the Jays as superior to pretty much anyone in the AL Central, and in eyeshot here in the east. The big issue is DH/LF - solve one and the other should be OK.
  • 3+ WAR (solid, star potential): Vlad, Giménez, Kirk
  • 2+ WAR (solid regular): Bo, Varsho, Wagner, Schneider (surprised me), Gausman, Berrios
  • 1.5+ WAR (meh, backup unless develop): Barger, Jimenez, McAdoo, Stefanic, Roden, Clement, Springer, Bassitt (1.9)
  • 1+ WAR (ugh): Clase, Lukes, Loperfido, Francis, RodriguezManoah, Eric Lauer (? - a NRI), Hoffman (1.2 in the pen is damn nice)
  • rest are sub 1 - who cares level. Orelvis listed at 0.3 over 447 PA (ugh)
Strange ZiPS see that group making LF into a 2.0 WAR position (Loperfido, Schneider, Lukes mainly), and 3B as well (Clement, Martinez, Barger) Guess we'll see how it works out. Odd they have Francis at 2.3 WAR in the graphic, but 1.2 on the chart (in 103 IP). A few things that seem off. Francis I figure will either be the 3+ WAR guy (star potential) we saw in the 2nd half or a sub 1 guy we saw in the 1st (scrub) I think. Could this team compete for a playoff spot? Yes. Is it highly likely? No.

Free agents via ZiPS: Santander 2.2, Jack Flaherty 2.0, Pete Alonso 3.0, Nick Pivetta 1.7, Max Scherzer 1.4. Others rumored for the Jays with significance haven't been done yet (Jurickson Profar, Ha-Seong Kim, Alex Bregman) and relievers are a crapshoot with projections. Kind of surprised to see Alonso so high. Scherzer is over 107 IP (seems reasonable given his age/health). Pivetta I'm not big on, and this gives me a bit of pause on Flaherty and Santander. All depends on what the Jays see as their potential and how they'd fit in with the club - could they help in ways beyond the projections due to L/R in batting order, or position.
scottt - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:22 PM EST (#455791) #
One possible outcome for Vlad is that he hits more homeruns as he slows down.
I don't see Bichette aging well. Too depending on perfect timing.
He'll slow down and get injured more.

We're still waiting for some of their pitchers to stay healthy.
It will happen eventually.
ISLAND BOY - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:27 PM EST (#455792) #
Vlad has a fairly level swing and even a lot of his home runs are line drives. I don't see him hitting more home runs unless he starts upper cutting the ball more.
krose - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:29 PM EST (#455793) #
Santander to sign with Jays according to BR.
SK in NJ - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:33 PM EST (#455794) #
The Jays have signed Santander.
Eephus - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:36 PM EST (#455795) #
Would’ve preferred Alonso (no reason they still can’t do that) and like I said I’m not a huge Santander fan…. but at least it’s something. He does make this lineup considerably better.

Still more to do.
Gerry - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:41 PM EST (#455796) #
Jays have also started signing their international players. Top signing Christopher Polanco was just announced.
JB21 - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:42 PM EST (#455797) #
"Baseball is a good distraction while the US tosses out human rights today (transgender rights in the toilet now). Yes, that pisses me off as I have friends who are trans who are royally screwed down there (and might be here too in the very near future). That's it for my rants about that evil here."

Human rights took a significant backwards step during the Dem's administration. While I agree it likely won't get better and could get worse in the next 4 years, pretending that transgender rights, abortion rights, and internal human rights didn't get considerably worse during the last 4 years is neoliberalism. In my opinion, of course.
Katie - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:45 PM EST (#455799) #
Five years for Santander.
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:50 PM EST (#455801) #
5 years, $90M, Heyman says there is an optional 6th year
99BlueJaysWay - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:52 PM EST (#455802) #
Apparently a player opt out after 4 years, can be voided if Jays add 6th year
Katie - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 12:53 PM EST (#455803) #
I think Scherzer is the exact sort of one-year deal that the Jays should be pursuing and I don't really understand the case against it.

I'd rather not make a multi-year committment and lose a draft pick on someone like Pivetta. If he isn't good, it's a one-year commitment. If he's good, he either helps them contend or can be flipped at the deadline.

The Jays aren't rebuilding, so if they are going to try to contend in 2025, Scherzer is the exact right type of signing that doesn't tie them down long-term.
jerjapan - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 01:33 PM EST (#455819) #
Good news!  The contract sounds interesting with team and player options, but the deal looks fair, rather than overpay, to my eye. 

I'd love to get Scherzer too, with the uncertainty around Manoah, Francis and Y-Rod and lack of MLB-ready depth.   You could roll with six starters at times too, given the age of that rotation. 

Guys, you should really read the Cass report to get a sense of the problems with the 'blanket affirmation for trans people' approach.  There are major red flags all over the place, which makes sense given how this is so very different from historical understandings of trans ideation, (primarily male to female), and now, when the reverse is true.  Even the Netherlands is walking back on their 'gold standard' model of affirmative care.  They DID have success, but that was a different population of candidates, and their support/screening  system was much more rigorous.  I recognize that some pretty awful people are doing and saying awful things and share my point of view here, but I am non-partisan, simply team young people.  Better data helps everyone. 
James W - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 01:37 PM EST (#455820) #
I think you confused Koskie's FA signing by JPR from Minnesota with his later salary dump trade to Milwaukee to clear room on the roster for Glaus and Shea Hillebrand.

You're right, that's exactly what I did.
adrianveidt - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 01:58 PM EST (#455828) #
@John Northey, I just want to clarify your priorities. Are you saying Bloody Blinken and Holocaust Harris should have been rewarded with 4 more years to continue their massacres on the ground that it's more important that men should be able to use women's locker rooms?
lexomatic - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 02:25 PM EST (#455833) #
An either/ or about rights isnt helpful. Genocide shoukdnt continue, and removing trans (& other rights) shpuldnt hsppen either.But i come down on mosgendering as hate speech. Saying trans women are men using womens bathrooms is denialism and hate.
I think mods should lock this down.
Marlow - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 03:05 PM EST (#455839) #
The Jays sign a 22 year old Cuban RHP, Alexander Valiente for $75K.
uglyone - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 03:14 PM EST (#455841) #
love hearing a supporter of Trump's massive drone strikes increase and his buddy Bibi's war call Blinken and Kamala warhawk names.
JB21 - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 08:00 PM EST (#455877) #
I may be wrong (happens often!) but it is possible that this person is not a supporter of Trump but instead not accepting that the lesser of two evils is all that great of a thing and the difference between the two parties is a lot smaller than one might think.

https://www.instagram.com/official_lady_bunny/p/Cz34WFHuTBK/

Gerry - Monday, January 20 2025 @ 10:07 PM EST (#455887) #
No more political, Israel, Genocide, trans rights discussions please. It has the potential to ruin this site. Those discussions belong somewhere else.
scottt - Tuesday, January 21 2025 @ 08:52 AM EST (#455902) #
The Pirates had a fan fest on Saturday.
There was "Sell the team" chants.
They served sodas with a Dec 30 2024 expiry date.
McCutchen was signing autographs sitting at a table behind a "McCUTCEN" sign.
There was a video of the Pirate mascot falling on a toddler. 
Fans asked questions like "Can we extend Skenes and Cruz now?"
and "Why is there not a pirate ship in the outfield?"
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