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I figure this is what we are all thinking about with the Jays odds at FanGraphs for playoffs down to 1.1% now. (2.7% at Baseball Prospectus). So lets do a thread for just this.

The big questions are who can/should we trade and who is buying. Plus we need to factor in who else is selling and what can they sell? IE: If Kikuchi is the only LH starter on the market his value jumps, but if no contender needs a LH starter then it drops. Here are my thoughts on who is available, who is looking, and who else is selling and what they have/need.
Jays players available (Free agency post season listed)
  • Starters: Kikuchi (2024), Bassitt (2025)
  • Relievers: Garcia (2024), Richards (2024), Green (2025), Cabrera (2025), Swanson (2025)
  • C: Jansen (2024), DH/1B: Turner (2024), CF: Kiermaier (2024), IF: IKF (2025), 1B: Vlad (2025), SS: Bo (2025)
I didn't list post 2025 Romano as he is on the IL until sometime in 2025 most likely so no one would trade for him. Obviously few would trade for IKF or Bo until they are off the IL but a desperate team might say 'screw it' and pay a decent price anyways. Some teams like the Dodgers only care about October anyways.

Non-Contenders (7+ games out of playoffs, was going to make it 5 but heard Detroit thinks they can make it still). Note: Rangers within 5 of AL West title, but further out of the WC, and after last year they'll feel they are in it to the end.
  • Angels 12 1/2: CF: Kevin Pillar 127 OPS+ and solid D as always, SP: Tyler Anderson (2025, 141 ERA+, 4.1 bWAR, damn good), Closer: Carlos Estévez (17-3 Sv-Bsv, 162 ERA+, 2024), RP: Hunter Strickland (121 ERA+ at age 35 but wild),
  • A's 16 1/2: Nada that I see them trading - all good players have years of control
  • White Sox 28 1/2: Erick Fedde (138 ERA+ over 111 1/3 IP, was negative WAR pre 2024, post 2025 FA), everything else is a 'yikes'
  • Rockies: 15: Cal Quantrill (2025, 110 ERA+ over 108 IP, that's about it
  • Marlins: 15 1/2: Closer: Tanner Scott (2024, 15-2 Sv-BlSv 339 ERA+, all star, but wild 5.4 BB/9). Team OPS+ of 76 - 'nuff said.
Contenders looking to load up (IE: in playoff slot or within 3 of it)
  • O's: CF: Cedric Mullins 84 OPS+, 0 defensive WAR, could use an upgrade, but KK isn't it, 2 starters with ERA+'s in the 80's in Cole Irvin & Dean Kremer so will be hunting for starters, Irvin their only LHSP, pen a bit shallow.
  • Cleveland: C weak (Bo Naylor 70 OPS+, Austin Hedges 16; 2B Andrés Giménez 81 OPS+, SS Brayan Rocchio 76 OPS+, certainly could use IKF. Rotation a mess, really could use Bassitt and Kikuchi. but very deep strong pen.
  • Astros: 1B/LF have been messes all year, rotation weak, pen in good shape but like most could use more arms.
  • Yankees: The Judge/Staton/Soto show and that's it on offense, rotation & pen have issues but no real space to add, can't see a match here.
  • Twins: C: Vázquez 44 OPS+ yikes!, but Jeffers has a 117 so not a disaster, but potential. Just 2 starters all year have ERA+ over 100, so desperate there I'd think. Pen looks strong.
  • Royals: Weak at 1B/DH, 3B, OF. Solid rotation, decent pen but not 'wow'. Could use Green in pen, IKF in infield, maybe a spot for Turner.
  • Red Sox: Poor at 1B/DH, but Refsnyder might be fixing one of those. McGuire is their backup catcher. 3 solid starters - rest I wouldn't trust.
  • Mariners: Poor offensively nearly everywhere but C. IKF would be a dream here. Solid rotation & pen - getting good results from Thornton & Saucedo(!) but could really use Garcia or Green.
  • Phillies: Very weak in CF with Rojas (60 OPS+ barely over 0 for WAR) but is a kid so might want to leave him there. Solid top 4 rotation but injury issues killing the 5 hole. Pen has holes that Green or Garcia would fill nicely.
  • Dodgers: Lux flopping at 2B thus why they want to move Betts back there once healthy, thus why they have interest in Bo. Rotation buried in injuries with Yamamoto out until late August at best. Solid deep pen.
  • Brewers: Weak at 1B/DH, 3 solid starters then injury issues - so another possible home for Kikuchi & Bassitt, Pen solid but injuries too so might want more depth (could be a home for Richards, cheap and eats innings)
  • Atlanta: Arcia not hitting at all at SS, 2 injured OF, strong rotation & pen.
  • Diamondbacks: lineup solid, rotation super messed up with just 2 decent guys. Pen holding it together but for how long when the rotation is a mess?
  • Padres: weak pen, lots of 'meh' in the lineup right now with Bogaerts sucking hard at 2B.
  • Pirates: CF hitting worse than KK (wow), #1 C has a 44 OPS+ but backup doing really good now (126 OPS+, lifetime 84 so won't last), rotation has 2 on IL, 1 with a 74 ERA+, plus some pen issues (Chapman walking 8.1 per 9 IP for example).
  • Giants: weak at 1B/DH and SS, rotation a mess with Snell at 62 for ERA+, pen reasonable.
  • Cusp teams who could swing either way - Rays, Cubs, Reds, Washington - all might go for it, or might say 'not our year' and only do minor deals (ie: could take Richardson if costs only his salary and a 35 prospect) or could just say 'screw it' and start dumping. I expect these teams to do nothing.
My quick 2 cents - Bassitt and Kikuchi should fetch a really good price due to supply/demand. Always good to be a seller with starting pitchers. Green & Garcia should be valuable too - maybe Swanson & Richards could even find new homes. I see lots of possible homes for IKF as well. Some teams might be desperate enough for a possible bat in Turner (his April & June might excite someone who is desperate), heck I even see a few places Kiermaier might fit in. 2 or 3 possible homes for Jansen there (Cubs maybe too if they decide they need to chase a playoff spot). The market is there, but can Atkins take advantage and get something good out of this? I'd happily package a few to get a real prospect or two (someone on the cusp of reaching but the contending team needs help NOW). This is the place for ideas - good/bad/weird/whatever.
Trade Possibilities | 52 comments | Create New Account
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Glevin - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 06:57 AM EDT (#449758) #
I think you're being optimistic on trade deadline. Kikuchi and Bassit (if traded) should get back something but both are more mid rotation guys than front-end starters. All in all I expect Jays to get one or two good prospects and a couple of fliers. I just hope Jays don't trade for a Mitch White type. I just don't know if Jays are talking about competing next year because they want to sell tickets/ drive up player prices or they are delusional. It's odd how pitching has become a greater concern than hitting. Hitting still poor but the pitching, especially when considering the elite d the Jays have, has been awful. Has the Pete Walker myth been broken?
greenfrog - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#449759) #
Teams want difference-makers in the playoffs. Kikuchi and Bassitt are back-end starting pitchers in the postseason. On any given night, they could provide a good start, or they could blow up. If he were having a better season, Gausman would be a good trade chip.

VGJ would be desirable for teams that need a first baseman, as he’s controllable for 1.5 seasons, a good hitter in his prime, and has some postseason experience.
bpoz - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:00 AM EDT (#449761) #
Serious sellers for me are Colorado, Miami and the CWS because they are in the middle of a rebuild. The other team that will sell is the Jays but how seriously? If they trade Bassit and one of Gausman/Berrios plus Green that makes them serious sellers IMO. Yimi and Danny can easily be replace. Kikuchi IMO cannot easily be replaced for 2025. Oakland only needs a few pieces to get out of the basement so hang on to your controllable players.

The 2025 rotation without Kikuchi, Bassit and one of Gausman and Berrios looks too weak to contend in 2025 but they may get lucky with injuries and good performances. This is the tough call for Shapiro/Atkins. But it makes the 2025 team younger and cheaper. The 2026 team is still young, cheap and more experienced.
jerjapan - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:03 AM EDT (#449762) #
Man, I expect one or two good prospects plus fliers for Kikuchi alone.   Just the QO would yield a prospect, a trade needs to beat that by a fair bit, and this is a sellers market, inevitable given the expansion of playoff spots. 

Kikuchi is, what, the second most desirable rental starter, a power lefty on an affordable contract?
Hey, I'll admit that I'm wrong if I'm wrong in a couple of weeks.  But I see this trade deadline actually impacting the future of the franchise, not just rearranging the chairs on the deck. 
greenfrog - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:12 AM EDT (#449763) #
Seems like Kikuchi’s main issue has been a spike in his HR allowed rate from April/May to June/July. If teams are unconcerned about this, they may be willing to bet on him as a #2-3 playoff starter. His xFIP has been pretty consistent all season.
bpoz - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#449764) #
Shapiro was very blunt after 2021 when he said "just make the playoffs". IMO that is every teams philosophy except LAD, NYY and maybe 1 or 2 others. These teams want the WS championship and build towards that.
BlueJaysLifer - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:39 AM EDT (#449765) #
I for one don’t think John has been too optimistic. Any decent front office would be able to extract value out of a sellers market for starting pitching. While Bassitt and Kikuchi may be mid or back end starters on a few contenders, injuries to contenders rotations combined with the jam packed wild card race means even reliable back end guys have lots of value. The “just get in approach” most teams are adopting should work to our favour.
Can’t win the World Series without getting into the playoffs
Mike Green - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#449766) #
Kikuchi's wOBA and xwOBA are pretty consistent over 2023-24.  He's been a league average pitcher. 
Marc Hulet - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 09:34 AM EDT (#449767) #
Neither Bassitt nor Kikuchi would be starters that would pick games 1 or 2 in a playoff series... the return would be modest. Kikuchi has the higher upside and Bassitt has the luxury of an extra year of control. You're probably looking at one B/B+ prospect and one or two lower level flyers.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Garcia get the best return because he has a chance to work in high leverage and really be impact fully in the playoffs.

I'm betting the Jays don't get a good of enough offer to move Jansen (maybe two C level players) or Richards (maybe a milb reliever).
scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#449768) #
I don't see any reason to put the Yankees up there with the Dodgers.
They finished 4th last year and missed the playoffs.
They won the division in 22, second in 21, second in 20, first in 19, second in 18, second in 17.
They are currently in second place. That's their usual spot these days.

The Dodgers are in first place and won their division 11 times in the last 12 years when they finished second. Still, they don't consistently make it to the World Series and only won in 2020.

The Yankees always have a good bullpen. That's the one thing they do very well.

85bluejay - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#449770) #
I think posters will be disappointed with the returns the jays receive - I’m setting my expectations low - remember the speculation about what the jays would get for the best pitcher on the trade market in JA Happ a few years ago and the Yankees hoodwinked the Jays into much ado about nothing.
scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#449771) #
They should move Richards regardless. It will be interesting to see how much value Jansen has.
They might want to sign him back.

The best return they got was Espinal--a 10th round draft pick.
I would send Turner back to Boston for very little.

1 year of Russell Martin + cash returned Ronny Brito and Andrew Sopko.

1 year of Morales + cash returned Jesus Lopez.

Granderson, traded at the deadline to the Brewers brought back Demi Orimoloye.

There was of course, Happ traded to the Yankees for Drury and McKinney.
Kikuchi is worth considerably less here.

John Axford was traded for Corey Copping.

Seunghwan Oh was traded for Chad Spanberger, Forrest Wall and Bryan Baker.
Baker was put on waivers and has been decent for Baltimore. (There is some sort of story here, I think)
Wall had 2 cups of coffee with Atlanta after being released doing great last year but poorly this year.

scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#449772) #
I think the value in trade is in keeping the team from surging back to .500 and reducing payroll.
If they can get a guy or two who can profile as a reliever down the road or a 7th or 8th starter, I'd be surprised.

scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 10:28 AM EDT (#449773) #
The Braves have signed Merrifield to cover for injured Ozzie Albies.
This year he's hitting .199 .277 .295.

Glevin - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#449775) #
Third best on market or whatever doesn't really mean much. What matters is how much better they are than what the team can replace them with and how much better they are than another player they can get. Kikuchi isn't very different than Happ. Fine pitchers but nobody wants them starting game 1 or 2 of a series. So, a team will give up something for Kikuchi but no team is going to be squeezed for him.
John Northey - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#449777) #
To be honest, I don't expect much in return due to how things have gone (pretty much one of those years). However, hope is eternal and much needed. For guys under control for 2025 I'd be demanding a lot more than I would for a guy who is gone once 2024 ends.

Prospects via FanGraphs
  • O's: 50+: 5; 40-49: 25
  • Yankees: 50+: 6; 40-49: 23
  • Cleveland: 50+: 2; 26
  • Astros: 50+: 2; 40-49: 22
  • Twins: 50+: 4; 40-49: 28
  • Red Sox: 50+: 5; 40-49: 28
  • Mariners: 50+: 5; 40-49: 21
  • Phillies: 50+: 4; 40-49: 14
  • Dodgers: 50+: 8; 40-49: 29
  • Brewers: 50+: 4; 40-49: 26
  • Atlanta: 50+: 3; 40-49: 20
  • Diamondbacks: 50+: 2; 40-49: 30
  • Padres: 50+: 4; 40-49: 16
  • Pirates: 50+: 4; 40-49: 26
  • Cusp - Rays (50+: 4; 40-49: 33), Cubs (50+: 9; 40-49: 21), Reds (50+: 2; 40-49: 22), Washington (50+: 4; 40-49: 21)
Jays have 2 50's, 23 40's for reference. Seems most teams have a good base of 20-30 guys in the 40's (prospects, but not stars, but could become stars if things break right) and 2-4 in the 50's (high end prospects - these guys tend to make top 100 lists). The Dodgers are nuts - they are a big market team who ignores the luxury tax (also in playoffs annually thus low draft picks, low IFA cap) yet still has TONS of high end prospects. IMO the most valuable thing the Jays could do this winter is poach the Dodgers farm system for coaches and the guys who run it and who run their draft and IFA. The Dodgers 8 50's are 3 IFA, 5 drafts - split by 2 trades and 3 in house. There is the system to emulate.
pooks137 - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#449779) #
Why does Daulton Varsho never get mentioned in trade considerations?

He's 28, has two years of control left, is the best OF in the league but has stagnated offensively. He's also cheap at ~6 mil.

If the Jays aren't seriously contending in 2025, he should be on the block as well for the right offer.

A team like Tampa would definitely be shopping Varsho in a similar situation.

dalimon5 - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#449780) #
Marc has the most realistic post about expectations consistent with industry chatter. They can get back good prospects in the range he has posted. MLB.COM has an article up right now (as does blue jays nation) sharing comparables from previous years.
ISLAND BOY - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 12:39 PM EDT (#449782) #
" The Braves have signed Merrifield to cover for the injured Ozzie Albers. This year he's hitting .199 .277 .295."

I think we forget how good Merrifield was for the first half of last season. He gradually became an everyday player batting .286 with a .784 OPS before tailing off in the second half. Luckily the Jays didn't resign him, though.
scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#449783) #
The Dodgers and Mariners have lots of high ranked prospects, but none good enough to make their team. Gavin Lux is an example of that. Most of these guys will not actually amount to anything. Getting a failed 50+ prospect who is out of option is a worse case scenario.

In the present case, maybe they get a 45 or a 40 and 3 or more 35.

Macko is a 45 who came through trade.
Alex de Jesus is a 35.

There's a line at the end of the Fangraphs review of the Blue Jays prospects "We think Santiago Espinal, Jimenez, Barger and Martinez are more talented than both the OBP-driven Schenider(sic)/Biggio combo ... and the contact/speed duo of Lopez and Ernie Clement."

Missed on Espinal and Clement here, who has as many homeruns as Espinal. 

dalimon5 - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 01:40 PM EDT (#449784) #
Scottt read the articles and see what the recent returns have amounted to.
John Northey - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#449786) #
As to 50 ratings - lets check some past info...
  • 2017: Jays had 3 50's: Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Anthony Alford, Sean Reid-Foley - 1 worked, 2 not close. Well, SRF is a decent reliever for the Mets now, Alford was last seen in Korea.
  • 2018: over 100 50+ guys - Soto just a 50, Ohtani a 70, 65's for Acuna Jr, Vlad, Tatis Jr, Victor Robles (136 wRC+ this year, 83 lifetime), Eloy Jiménez. Gives you an idea - they get to 70 and pretty much a lock to be a star, 60+ has a great shot at it (Bo, Kyle Tucker, lots of others), 50+ should be good but no guarantees.
That gives a fast idea of the past and what to expect.

Checking more detail for 2017 (oldest they had)
  • 60+: 20 players: 168.6 fWAR pre 2024 or 8.4 on average, 91% of fWAR by hitters
  • 50-59: 113 players: 544.8 fWAR or 4.8 average, 62% by hitters
  • 40-49: 541 players: 756.7 fWAR or 1.4 average, 60% by hitters
Clearly cracking 60 is a big plus for prospect status, especially for hitters. TINSTAAPP really applies here at the top end it seems. The pitchers at 60+ were Alex Reyes, Anderson Espinoza, Yadier Alvarez, Francis Martes, and Lucas Giolito - Giolito is the only success there - great 2019-2021 but otherwise not much (3 teams last year, hasn't pitched this year). I'll have to do a real study on this sometime to see if that applies to other years or if it is a unique 2017 thing (gut says it is common).
85bluejay - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#449787) #
Is IKF due to play some games before the trade deadline because I think he's an attractive trade candidate.
soupman - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#449788) #
I don't think the Jays are getting much of anything useful especially if they are planning to compete next year.

FWIW, I also think the Cardinals are the model franchise in baseball. They've shown over a long time how to keep fans coming to the park. They are in a small market and still pull over 3million fans virtually every year. They produced Luhnow who showed that the model works. They, unlike the Cleveland franchise, have won.

I bring this up because I think the early AA years are market by coveting high-potential players. The Rasmus trade was exciting at the time, and he was had for a lot of expiring deals and nothing that was painful to lose. The Cards took the collection of relievers the Jays sent and erased the biggest gap ever (10.5 games) to make the playoffs and win the world series that year.

I think the Jays are in a position where there might be some guys, like Tyler O'Neill last year, that teams like the Cards may be done with. Guys that might look good on paper, but for whatever reasons, winning and successful franchises are able to move on from. I think the Jays need to look at how these superior organizations run their ships and do that. Not whatever it is they've been doing the last 9 years.
dalimon5 - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#449789) #
"Why does Daulton Varsho never get mentioned in trade considerations?"

Because he has been exposed as a defensive first player with limited offensive potential. If you have a huge park where he can take advantage of quirky walls and dead space to turn singles and doubles into triples to pad the OPS then he is more valuable. A's and Snakes aren't looking to add to their OF while giving up prospects.
Glevin - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 03:59 PM EDT (#449790) #
Jays should absolutely be open to trading anyone. My personal preference is to try to extend Vladdy this summer and if you can't, then you trade him but if Seattle offers a couple of their top prospects, Jays would be crazy not to consider it. Not trading Vlad because you think you are going to re-sign him is fine. Not trading Vlad because you think you want to compete next year is insane.

What I think about is what is the Jays' plan to compete next year? Sign a couple of players and hope everything breaks right? The worst part of it is, let's say, by a miracle, it works. Jays get great years out of guys, they sneak into the playoffs and even win a round. Then what? You have Bo, Vlad, Bassit, and more as free agents. Springer, Gausman, etc...are older. How are you going to compete in 2026? Hope you get lucky again? That's not a plan. The idea of competing every year is good but you need to have the core of the team to do it. You can't just hope things go perfectly every year and when the core of your team isn't good enough, you need to reset.
soupman - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#449791) #
marked*

John - I think you didn't mention the Cardinals in your nice write up. They're in a wild card spot now, and their biggest need is starting pitching. they started the year with 4 starters 34+y/o. of all the teams that could and would make used of Kikuchi or Bassit in a game 1/2 playoff series...it's them.
greenfrog - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#449792) #
It might be irrational to run it back in 2025, but the front office might be worried about hanging onto their jobs for another year. They will worry about 2026 after the 2025 season.
scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#449794) #
It's not about signing a couple of players.
This isn't the AA era when they started each year with holes on the field, in the lineup, in the rotation and in the pen.
They need to retain or replace Jansen.
They need to find a DH or a left fielder who can hit in the top 4.
They need to replace Kikuchi.
They need to replace Garcia, Richards and Mayza. They can't really count on Romano.
That looks like 6 players to me.


scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#449795) #
What's irrational is trying to win 75 games next year and the year after by trading the best players for guys who will likely become the next Biggios and Pearsons.
Glevin - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:26 PM EDT (#449796) #
If the goals of the front office and the goals of the team don't align, you need to get a new front office. My worry is that Rogers is what drives a lot of this and then there's nothing really you can do.
soupman - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#449800) #
I looked up what's going on with the Cards. They've got Jordan Walker (22) in AAA. He was drafted as a 3B but blocked there for obvious reasons. A change of scenery and move back to his natural position might help get the bat going again.

scottt - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#449802) #
Who is the team? The players are not interested in losing next year.

Shapiro is the president. Rogers is the owner.
I don't think their goal is to be the Orioles or the Rays, teams that have had problem filling their park.

In other news, the Dodgers are about to DFA Paxton.
That kinda takes away from Kikuchi's market, I think.

John Northey - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#449803) #
Doh! How could I miss St Louis? Price of doing this spur of the moment at 11:30 PM. Goldschmidt having a bad year at age 36, but won't be replaced. CF a disaster with young Michael Siani 65 OPS+ solid on D but no KK or Varsho. Sonny Gray their only rotation guy clearly over 100 for ERA+, rest are meh 90's to low 100's with FIP's in the 4's, solid closer rest doing well but low K's so might want Garcia who can K guys as needed. A lot of meh on that team. Weird - noticed their #1 catcher was a kid with a 104 OPS+ (24 years old) but was sent down during a 5 game hitting streak. Weird - looks like they sent him down while on the IL. Wonder if they soured on him and he might be able to be gained in trade? If Jansen leaves then a new backup will be needed who can play a lot as I don't see Kirk holding up for 120+ games a year behind the plate.
soupman - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#449805) #
my first thought as well.
I think kikuchi has been hurt by a lot of bequeathed runners scoring. his FIP numbers are still good...career best, in fact. he's a great regression candidate compared to Paxton and he's striking out over 10 per 9innings. Kikuchi is good if you want to use him in the playoffs, probably as a reliever, whereas Paxton might be what some teams need just to eat innings and will take a flyer at league minimum.
John Northey - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#449806) #
Paxton? Nah. That is a non-factor (he hasn't been that good, sub 5 IP per start). Bigger issue is the Dodgers calling up their top pitching prospect River Ryan - suggests they won't be in the market for starting pitching unless he flops (unlikely as the Dodgers are quite good with pitchers).
SK in NJ - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#449807) #
I agree that the returns for the rentals will be modest at best. I expect them to covet existing big leaguers or players in AAA who are ready/close. The rentals won't fetch enough prospect capital to make any difference (in all likelihood), and the team is determined to contend in 2025 whether it makes sense to or not, so they likely benefit a lot more by trading the rentals for players who can help in 2025. If you were a fan of the Drury, McKinney, Fisher, Kay, Paulino, etc, type of returns, then you'll probably enjoy this trade deadline. Hopefully there is a Teoscar mixed in there somewhere.
Glevin - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#449808) #
Those are very different kinds of returns. I'm fine with a Jonathan Kay kind of return (top-100 prospect close to majors). I'd also take a Derek Fisher type for most of the guys Jays are trading (lots of talent, not much major league chance. Many won't work out but some will. Fisher had a 125 WRC+ in AAA when Jays got him.) people tend to overrated low level prospects because they can become anything but unless you are getting a stud prospect (Jays aren't) the chances of them even being a major leaguer leaguer are pretty slim. Getting a flier doesn't mean getting someone with a 5% chance of being a star, it means getting someone with a 20% chance of becoming as good as Derek Fisher.
Katie - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 07:05 PM EDT (#449810) #
My personal preference is that the Jays acquire no former National Post columnists this month.
Chuck - Monday, July 22 2024 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#449812) #
Paxton? Nah. That is a non-factor (he hasn't been that good, sub 5 IP per start).

It's worse than that. His walk and K rates (4.8, 6.4) are terrible. He is almost certainly at the end of the line now. His no-hitter against the Jays accounts for all his career shutouts and half his career complete games.

scottt - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#449823) #
There are some rumours that the Jays are interested in Ty France whom the Mariners have DFA.
He makes around 6M and has a third year of arbitration left.
I suppose that's an option for a potential DH if he bounces back.

dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#449825) #
Scott where did you read/hear/see this rumour? Just curious as I like to be connected to all/any resources for baseball rumours during this week.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#449832) #
Ty France's OPS these last five years:

.836 - .813 - .774 - .703 - .662.

The next number in this sequence...
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#449833) #
... is top 5 on your 2024 Blue Jays...possibly top 2 after deadline.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#449837) #
Ty France doesn't interest me unless the Jays do it to clear out a bigger salary - say Kiermaier or Turner. Julio Rodríguez has been a very solid CF for them, but missed a game due to injury so they might be a bit nervous. DH/1B has been a lot of crap with France having a 94 OPS+, Garver an 83. Overall they are at 93 wRC+ at 1B, 107 at DH (thanks to Mitch Haniger [RF} & Cal Raleigh [C] hitting very well at DH over 18 and 11 games respectively). Hmm... might they want an experienced DH who has lots of playoff experience? Turner certainly looks like a possible fit - France for Turner with Seattle eating the cash spread ($13 mil vs $6.775 mil). Seattle is nowhere near the luxury tax so that could work, and if Turner got hot again they'd be laughing. If they'd take KK too then that'd do wonders for the Jays luxury tax situation and really help Seattle with vets who have playoff experience. Their only playoff wins since 2001 (116 wins, lost in ALCS) were vs the Jays in 2022 so they could use some experience. Kiermaier has 31 games/101 PA in the playoffs, Turner 86 games/368 PA - the two faced each other in the 2020 WS. I'd do that - then a Kikuchi & Garcia trade (near locks to happen) should be purely for prospects and get the Jays under the luxury tax.
85bluejay - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 06:04 PM EDT (#449842) #
The Orioles are said to be willing to trade established veterans Cedric Mullins and Ryan Mountcastle because of their deep farm system - I just loves this approach - confidence in young talent and contrary to most contenders just holding on to veterans rather than trust the young talent - for me, this approach portends a long contending window for the Orioles.
John Northey - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#449843) #
85bluejay - I agree with you and hate it - the O's being smart is going to make the AL East even more difficult. We really need radical realignment badly - moving the Jays to a new Central division, far from the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, and O's. Yeah, ideally the Jays would be the smartest team in the room instead but we all know that isn't likely - back in the 77-85 era the O's were the team to be envied and had been since the 60's - from 1966-1985 the O's made the playoffs 8 times, won it all 3 times, just once 500 or less, winning 100+ 5 times. Crazy good stretch there which they might be about to do again if they keep being smart.

Sigh. The Jays had hopes of being that, but couldn't build enough in the farm to this point for it to work. Keep hoping but basically we had the A's do that in the early 2000's, then the Rays, now the O's. It just isn't common or easy.
99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 07:24 PM EDT (#449844) #
... is top 5 on your 2024 Blue Jays...possibly top 2 after deadline.

Lol dalimon. I had a good chuckle

99BlueJaysWay - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#449847) #
begins!
scottt - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#449848) #
Springer is 5th on the Jays at .708.

Kirk .617
Bichette .597
Kiermaier .553
Barger .360

Magpie - Tuesday, July 23 2024 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#449857) #
Yeah, but I believed him for a second. How bad is that?!
scottt - Wednesday, July 24 2024 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#449876) #
I see the Ty France rumour on Blue Jays Insider. (Not familiar with that site).
Not sure where I saw it first.

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