Brian Serven is back with the club on the taxi squad in Arizona

John Schneider was just on with Blair and Barker. I am pretty sure he said Kiermaier cleared waivers. No-one wanted to pick up his full remaining salary. The Jays will now need to pick up some of the salary if they want to trade him.

It's all pretty small change. Kiermaier is owed about $4.5M for the remainder of the season. If the Blue Jays pick up most of it and get a low-level prospect, that will be fine.

Kiermaier is a nice little piece for a contending team. He's 25-2 stealing bases the last 3 years and is still an excellent outfielder.

Whit Merrifield released. Was hitting .199 with a .572 OPS.

Is it strange that Kiermaier is still with the team and in today's lineup?

Why Chuck? He cleared waivers so no one was willing to pay the $4.5M.

But maybe some team would be willing to pay $1M and throw in a low level prospect.

You could release KK if the Jays were unable to trade him under any circumstances but I would think some team would pick him up for a nominal amount.

A little. Chuck is perhaps wondering why the club would not play Varsho in CF and Schneider in LF if they thought Kiermaier was of so little value.

It's a little of both, Gerry and Mike. He has not been released (I think I misunderstood that he had been) so I get that he is a still a team member until he's not. Still, that's got to create an odd "dead man walking" vibe. And if he will be gone soon enough, why even start him any more? There are others who could use the ABs.

I figure they are showcasing KK and others for the trade market right now. Each highlight reel play he makes, any hits he gets will enhance his value to a contender. Any outs he makes won't affect things much.

It seems that KK was surprised by being placed on waivers. So today could be throwing a bone to him to offset his disappointment.

I’m sure there are decisions the Jays could make that would be surprising, but preferring to play a veteran over a young player isn’t one of them. It has happened all season.

Varsho > Moreno

confirmed.

It seems that Ned Flanders' slump correlates pretty well with Spencer Horowitz's callup. I wonder if SH's presence on the team made him feel a little more pressure to perform.

Schneider may want to drop Turner lower in the line up. Any updates on Joey?

John Schneider everybody. 3 late blown leads in 7 games.

your toronto blue jays

"Richards has had a terrific season but this is now 4 outings in a row where he has given up an earned run or more." Dan Schulman compelled to call out the managing before he takes off for the Olympics.

Can't blame the manager - who the heck else was he going to have pitch? Pearson maybe. Pop? I mean the options are damn slim. Green didn't have it either.

For everyone in the media saying "what can John do? He doesn't have the pieces." Just watch the last week of baseball and the blown leads based on bullpen usage. He looks completely lost out there. In case you missed it: jays were up 4-2 bottom of the 8th and Richards is brought in. He can't find the zone and walks the 6/7 hitters then puts a fastball in heart of the plate to the 8 hitter who ties the game. Demoralizing loss with Springer, Vlad, Clement, Varsho and Horwitz all playing their heart out to get the lead. Way to let your players down coach.

What could he have done? Taken Richards out after it was obvious he didn't have anything. Instead he left him in there.

I thought Richards’ stuff looked pretty good tonight.

The game was lost when they scored one run with the bases loaded and no outs. Vladdy did his job with a sac fly but Turner GIDP.

John, just basic things can be done. When Kettle Marte with his 1100+ OPS is announced as a pinch hitter... just walk him. Of course he pitches to him.

Up two bottom of the 8th take Richards out. Find a way to mix Bowden Francis in if you have to. Put him in for an inning or two after the starter leaves early so you don't burn through your whole damn pen night after night.

And who does he bring in? Green had to pitch the night before to save a game, came in during the 9th and had nothing. Again, would you bring in Pearson or Pop there? The pieces aren't there - you could bring Joe McCarthy, Casey Stengel, Bobby Cox, Cito Gaston, I don't care - give any of them this pen and you get what we've been seeing. This is 1983/1984 all over again. Pens that you can't trust in any situation - and those teams were run by Bobby Cox (HOF manager). There is lots to complain about with John Schneider but pen usage? When 4 of the 5 the Jays counted on either blew up out of nowhere or are injured? No. To paraphrase a very famous current player - "that is a clown argument bro".

Now, you want to complain about Atkins not finding more pitchers for the AAA team who could be half decent? Good case to be made. The Jays coaches for not figuring out how to fix Mayza and Swanson? Same. The high performance department having an off year with the pen? Again, good case to be made. But I can't see how you blame the guy stuck with this nightmare pen.

Trevor Richards
11 pitches, 6 strikes, 2 wild

IP H R ER BB K HR
0.2 1 2 2 2 1 0


Yeah he looked pretty good alright.

Francis? Really? In a tight game in the 8th inning? You gotta be kidding me. Francis has given up runs in 3 of his past 4 games. Outside of his starts he hasn't been trusted with less than a 3 run lead - and that was in a long relief role (4 innings that day).

As I said the only real option might have been Pearson but he is the girl with the curl - when he is good he is very very good, but when he is bad he is rotten. Pop is as much a crapshoot as anyone in the pen. We saw Green had nothing tonight. This pen is a cross your fingers and pray type of one. I'm sure Atkins is hunting the waiver wire for any help, but no point in trading for quality help as that'd cost prospects and that'd be the height of stupidity in a lost season.

My beef is with this manager managing like it's 2015 where you bring in a pitcher and the move is done and there is nothing left to do. Look around baseball. Good managers bring in a pitcher and if necessary change them in the same inning which wasn't the initial plan. It's called managing to the situation in real time. Schneider predetermines his moves and follows that script. It's not very good managing at all in my opinion. It's like Springer...struggled for 3 months and John followed the cliff notes to bat him lead off forever.

"What is he supposed to do?" Find a way not to blow 3 games out of 7 when the season's on the line.

Springer is now outhitting Varsho? That’s happened in a hurry.

If you have an eye to next year as this team should, it’s actually Turner that should get moved/ released ahead of KK. Turner isn’t hitting so offers nothing for the team. KK doesn’t really help either but at least could offer late inning defense or pinch running. Having the DH slot open would offer up more opportunities to get some younger players ABs. Both should really go though.

Steve Phillips says that reports indicate the Blue Jays (predictably) are going to try to trade their impending FAs but keep the rest of their key players in an attempt to compete next year. Time will tell if that is a mistake. It’s probably the best chance Atkins has of keeping his job through 2025. I think we should prepare for at least 1.5 more years of the same FO and manager.

It was nice to see them cashing guys on third.

As I predicted, the bullpen isn't good enough to let them catch up.
The pen is going to look quite different next year.

It's hard to get relievers when you sell at the deadline.
That's one thing competing teams can't spare.

Yeah I don't know how one can blame Schneider for these last couple of bullpen losses. The bullpen just sucks right now and he can only use the pieces that he has. Green and Richards are the two best relievers right now and they both pitched yesterday. Someone has to pitch the innings and the options are limited.

Two games lost or blown on hold pitches in the last week. He should be treated as next to last reliever to use on the depth chart. There's plenty the manager could have done. Let Cabrera go two innings. Bring in Pearson. Let Burr go two who looked good. Don't keep going to the guy that's been your worst pitcher the past 10 days.

I agree the bullpen sucks but a better manager may have found a way to save some of these games. At a certain point the manager has to hold pitchers accountable for unacceptable performance.

These bullpen blow ups are more demoralizing than the hitting woes and that's the hardest part as the hitting has now improved enough to win.

I am obsessed. I watch the games almost every day and listen to no less than 3 podcasts daily on baseball. This is not healthy. Excuse my airing of grievance as a season ticket holder. This morning I filled out my form to opt out for 2024. I am on the path to becoming a regular fan again - that's my decision. Try to find the fun in watching the games again without so much frustration from the time I put in. Between the podcasts, TV watching and juggling of reselling tickets it has consumed all my baseball time and removed the fun.

I take solace in the fact that posters on this site have mostly been a source of logical practicality with objective opinions. I will keep my time on this site going but hopefully without the anger. Thanks Beauxites for keeping up a standard where we can go to talk and for me, learn more abotu the season and team year after year.

God this team sucks.

*opting out of next year/2025 not 2024 season tickets

Yeah, I don't think it's John Schneider's fault that his bullpen has just two pitchers - Green and Richards - who belong in the major leagues. (Maybe three, depends how you feel about Cabrera.) And even Green, Richards, Cabrera are back-of-the-bullpen depth guys. I've always been a Richards booster, but in no universe should he be a team's second most trusted relief pitcher. And his exceptional good luck this season was bound to turn at some point, especially when he's been worked harder as a reliever than ever before in his career.

But that's been the grim necessity. Pickings are mighty slim back there. Bowden Francis, Zach Pop, and Nate Pearson have done nothing this year to convince me that they belong in the major leagues. Burr and Little obviously haven't proven anything to anyone. Every time the team gets through an inning with one of those five non-entities on the mound, it always feel like - wow, got away with that!

Even the fabled bullpens from Bobby Cox's early years weren't this bad. Those teams generally had four or five certified major league quality relievers. They were all back-of-the-bullpen guys, but they at least had a case to be in the major leagues. Bowden Francis? Zach Pop? Please.

This reminds me more of 1995 - Tony Castillo (a major leaguer, but yet another back-of-the-bullpen guy) and five scrubs.

I feel your pain, dalimon5. We are all invested in the team, and this frustrating season has led to a lot of grumbling and sniping at each other on what is usually a pretty calm site. This is a highly paid team that is in the bottom third of baseball and there needs to be vision from management going forward. Right now, I think their vision is cloudy, at best.

Okay, no one could have predicted what happened to Romano, Swanson, and Mayza. But it's always something - that's just the nature of bullpens - and there are always solutions.

Because, as I keep insisting, useful relief pitchers grow on trees. Ross Atkins knows this, he's shaken that tree before when he had to. In 2016, when Drew Storen and Gavin Floyd couldn't get the job done, Atkins shook the tree and Jason Grilli and Joaquin Benoit helped save the season. In 2021, when Chatwood, Dolis, and Castro went to pieces, Atkins shook that tree and Adam Cimber and Trevor Richards fell out.

When Kettle Marte with his 1100+ OPS is announced as a pinch hitter... just walk him.

Why? There were two outs, no one was on base, the team was ahead 3-2. Little pitched to Marte and got him to ground out and end the inning.

Green did walk Marte in the ninth, which didn't end well.

Frustrations aside I feel that this window has ended.

Nice that we had a window but I think the FO blew it because Last years O was bad. Trading Teo & Gurriel weakened the O and Varsho & KK could not replace it. Bringing back KK was not going to help the O. Also Varsho has power but his O is also weak overall IMO. A repeat of 2023 was possible but other areas fell apart.

My choice now is to look forward to a rebuild of some sort. I don't care for a window extension plan. So I will watch and see what happens.

I see about 14 players that could be removed from this 40 man roster before Opening Day 2025. That would be pending FAs like J Turner and Paolo Espino who has a not helpful ML career.

Lots of room to work with but too many open spots to fill IMO.

I have to say that there really is no excuse for any smart FO to have a bullpen this bad, no matter what the circumstances.

Relievers are so fungible and cheap that any smart FO should be able to add a few mediocre relievers for cheap during a season.

Things can go wrong and you can't build a great bullpen for cheap when 3 of your top relievers go awol, but relievers are too readily available for any decent FO to have a pen this bad.

Honestly, nobody else in this community feels Schneider could have done anything differently to try to change the outcome of the 3 blown leads in SEA, SF and ARZ in the past 7 days?

"If you have an eye to next year as this team should, it’s actually Turner that should get moved/ released ahead of KK."

Yeah Turner and KK should definitely be moved and it wouldn't hurt the team at all.

I think moving Kikuchi is also a must just because he should get good value. But losing him would hurt and i would try to re-sign him in the offseason again either way. Yimi and Richards too.

Jansen i would try my best to keep and re-sign. If we trade him i doubt we get him back. Tho maybe we could still i dunno.

As disappointing as this team is i think it's probably best to run it back one more year before any big selloff. Hopefully run it back with a new FO and coaching staff. And some new relievers at least.

* 1. DH Horwitz 27
* 2. SS Bichette 27
* 3. 1B Guererro 26
* 4. RF Springer 35
* 5. LF Schneider 26
* 6. C Jansen 30
* 7. CF Varsho 28
* 8. 3B Falefa 30
* 9. 2B Jimenez 24

* X. UT Martinez 23
* X. OF Barger 25
* X. IF Clement 29
* X. C Kirk 26


* SP Gausman 34
* SP Berrios 31
* SP Bassitt 36
* (SP Kikuchi 34?)
* SP Rodriguez 27
* SP Manoah 27
* SP Tiedemann 22


* RP Romano 32
* RP Green 34
* RP Swanson 31
* RP Pearson 28
* RP Cabrera 28
* RP Pop 28
* RP Francis 29

"Honestly, nobody else in this community feels Schneider could have done anything differently to try to change the outcome of the 3 blown leads in SEA, SF and ARZ in the past 7 days?"

Hey Schneider was terrible with the pen even when they were healthy so he gets no love from me.

But at this point he really had no options at all they all stink.

there really is no excuse for any smart FO to have a bullpen this bad, no matter what the circumstances.

I agree with you completely! (Pick your jaw up off the floor, make a note of the date and place, whatever you need to do!)

There is no excuse, and what especially mystifies me is that this - the mid-season bullpen patch job - is something Atkins has done successfully in the past, and more than once.

Heh i read your post after i wrote mine - you said it first! I just repeated it.

But yeah he has done it before...and what's weird is that unlike previous years, this year's midseason pickups weren't even close to being realistic solutions. In previouz years they at least looked like realistic mlbers.

Dodgers claim Brent Honeywell. I would have claimed him and Phil Bickford and planned to trade Richards and Trade or drop Francis.

"While waiting and seeing, the season slipped away."

An epic, poetic epitaph for a season and an era.

Maybe incorporate this into the site's banner?

The risk Schneider would be dealing with is avoiding overwork of Green and Richards.

The bullpen would not likely have been good (and that's on Atkins), but I believe it would have been better.

Thank you Mike for sharing a proactive post on how it isn't simply "bullpen sucks so there is 0% difference the manager could have made."

Current roster to be dumped:
Jansen - decent catcher, but I think fans here overrate him.
Kevin Kiermaier - beautiful on defense, super-nice guy in interviews, will be a good broadcaster or coach someday. Sadly his bat vanished after he changed his approach in the offseason after no one would sign him.
Justin Turner - seems to be alternating good/bad months, May I wrote off due to sickness but why is his July bad? -17 sOPS+ vs 4 in May. April/June both over 150. Either he is a superstar or a nightmare.
Yusei Kikuchi - a mediocre starter overall, has his hot stretches and his cold ones leading to his 101 ERA+, won't get much in trade but might be packaged with Kiermaier for a D prospect just to clear salary.
Trevor Richards - like everyone is saying, a solid back of the pen guy who can emergency start for a team. Nice piece for a contender with a weak pen. Just don't ask him to close or setup.

Really, no point in keeping any of the upcoming free agents. Garcia I didn't mention because as long as he is on the IL no one will touch him. Maybe at the deadline if they are sure he'll be back shortly but only then.

Bullpen is so frustrating because it's either guys who were great recently (Swanson, Romano, Mayza) or guys with incredible stuff who should be much better (Pearson, Pop). Bullpens are inherently unpredictable and frustrating but because of that also relatively easy to fix. Bullpen hasn't been good enough but I agree with others that usage has been less than ideal.

I'm wondering if Atkins misjudged the budget this year - signing Kiermaier for $10.5 mil, Turner for $13, IKF $7.5 per, all these little bits added up. Plus of course Green's contract extension at the most expense per year setup possible ($10.5 per for 2).Garcia's option at $6 mil. None of these were destined at any point to be key players but they add up to $47.5 mil which is quite a bit. Any of those transactions in isolation would work just fine, but combined it is a problem and filled DH/CF/Ut IF/2 setup men when we had a serviceable DH (Horwitz) and solid CF (Varsho) here already plus backup infielders up the wazoo. The pen appeared stocked so much we let Jay Jackson (solid in '23) go for nothing (he hasn't done well this year so that didn't hurt in the end, 55 ERA+, sent down to AAA and put on inactive list, but the point is that guys who did well in '23 were let go). Basically any path forward for the pen in '23 short of a full overhaul of what was a top pen in '23 would've failed. A good reminder of why I hate when teams spend serious cash on relievers - they are just too variable outside of a handful of greats and even they can collapse at the drop of a hat (Duane Ward, unstoppable in '93, done in '94 a prime example).

So for 2025 I'd advise them to chase after top arms that are AAAA level (too good for AAA, not seen as good enough for the majors) and work on getting some minor leaguers ready for relief work in the majors - there is a reason some of the HOF closers were failed starters (Goose Gossage, Fingers, Eckersley, Rivera, etc.) - they had 1 or 2 excellent pitches, but not enough for a starter so moved to the pen and it worked wonderfully. Stop worrying about 100+ MPH and focus on control and diversity - lets get sidearmers, junk ball pitchers, even knuckleball pitchers - you name it. Then when the 100 MPH guy comes in it'll look like 110. No more chasing career relievers with $$$. If someone wants Green, send him away and move forward - that $10.5 might help sign some bigger help for 2025.

Personally I think the FO decided this past offseason that the team wasn’t good enough to push what few chips they had left (almost no budget and no prospects) into the middle. But I also think, for business reasons (playoffs and stadium renos),, like 2017, they weren’t going to reload. Hence they did nothing (and no I don’t think they ever believed they could actually land Ohtani but the PR was nice). I think that also explains why they didn’t try to bolster the pen mid year this year. Now, the key question is will they do anything this offseason? You’d thing they’d have to do something/anything because it’s obvious to everyone that the status who ain’t working but I’m just not sure.

"Personally I think the FO decided this past offseason that the team wasn’t good enough to push what few chips they had left (almost no budget and no prospects) into the middle. But I also think, for business reasons (playoffs and stadium renos),, like 2017, they weren’t going to reload."

I think this is accurate and in this part, it's also pretty hard to blame them.

there is a reason some of the HOF closers were failed starters

This is a quibble, I know, but Dennis Eckersley wasn't a failed starter. He was an outstanding starting pitcher at his best, the ace (20-8, 2.99) for a team that won 99 games (the 1978 Red Sox.) He also had a very good case to win the Cy Young the following year (they gave it to Mike Flanagan.) He spent 12 seasons in the rotation, started 359 games, and went 151-128, 3.67 with an ERA+ of 111.

It certainly worked out for everyone, but it's still a little mysterious that LaRussa didn't give him a shot in the Oakland rotation when he came over from the Cubs in 1987. Moose Haas? Gene Nelson? Dennis Lamp? The ghost of Joaquin Andujar?

Glevin I’m mostly with you that it’s hard to blame the FO entirely. They were in a tough spot. However, a little bit like Mike’s point on bullpen usage, this front office hasn’t been very creative. I think they could have started the necessary reload last offseason while still marketing that they were trying to compete. They’ve had a huge chunk of payroll tied up in veteran starters who are sort of living up to their money. Bassitt is example A in this regard. He’s been fine but they are paying full freight for what they are getting out of him. If you’re at the outer reaches of your budget you need to get creative. I’d have looked for a chance to reallocate assets out of the veteran starters and into the future.

"Jansen - decent catcher, but I think fans here overrate him."

* Last 2yrs: 508pa, 111wrc+, 3.1war, 4.0war/650pa
* Last 3yrs: 756pa, 121wrc+, 5.8war, 5.0war/650pa
* Last 5yrs: 1108pa, 113wrc+, 7.6war, 4.54war/650pa
* Career: 1587pa, 103wrc+, 10.1war, 4.1war/650pa
* RoS Proj: 158pa, 114wrc+, 1.0war, 4.1war/650pa

how do you think we should rate him exactly?

I agree Nigel that there has been a lack of creativity. I understand there is a process and you need to stick to it but you also need to be flexible. I generally loathe the retroactive "why didn't we get this guy is having a great year" stuff but I look at someone like O'Neil who was an obvious buy-low candidate with power and is Canadian to boot. Or take on a player with a larger salary for less cost like the Liriano deal. This offseason was hard. Almost no good free agents available but you need to create opportunities on your own sometimes and they didn't.

Not for nothing, he also may be the best catcher that the Jays have ever drafted and developed too.

"The ghost of Joaquin Andujar?"

The spirit world? Youneverknow.

Um. Did I just read the Jays had no budget this past off-season? That's revisionist history -- the ownership gave plenty... for the correct targets.

Hearing from Chapman just last week, I wish they'd signed Chapman and IKF, but only because we'd be chattering about whether Bo should be benched for IKF about a month ago in this alt-universe.

I wanted a bad sign (one of the top tier pitchers, pref Snell) but y'know if you do a sim on this season it's mainly just unlucky. Change is good and likely moving forward but this team is not a bad team if you do 10,000 sims. Chances are with minor tinkering they are better next year.

The Sox are better than one would expect. Today at post-softball drinks intelligent fans all were down on the ownership adding money.

My question is this: would you trade the Sox 40 for the Jays 40? If so, why?

The big item with Jansen is the PA. He NEVER has been healthy for long. His peak in games is 107 in 2019. In PA is 301 last year. Health is critical and he doesn't have it for whatever reason. His bWAR lifetime is 9.3 over 7 seasons. Lets remove 2018 (31 games) and merge 2020 with this year (roughly a full season then) and you get 8.7 bWAR over 5 season equivalents = 1.74 per year. That is a backup, a very good backup, but a backup. When he was supposed to be the regular every one of those years. His only 2+ WAR year was 2022 - in 72 games. Yeah, when healthy he can be great but he isn't ever healthy it seems. Giving him a WAR/650pa is like saying 'if Kirk could run he'd have 30 SB' - sorry neither is happening in this life. Btw, in 2022 Kirk had a 4.0 bWAR season which is better than any season Jansen has had. 7.3 in 5 seasons (ignore 2020 as it was just 9 games for him) and you have 7.1 in 4 = 1.78 bWAR per year - better than Jansen but again a backup level.

So where am I going? The two together are a solid pair, probably the best, most even overall combo the Jays ever had at catcher. 3.5 WAR a season is likely as a combo. So do you blow $10+ mil a year to resign Jansen? Maybe. But I doubt he gets much more than that from anyone. Every other team sees the same thing I do - major health issues. And entering his age 30 season odds are low that will improve. A team weak behind the plate who is a contender might want him. Pittsburgh catches my eye (their #1 has a 46 OPS+, their backup has a lifetime 82 OPS+ but a 118 this year). Cleveland's #1 has a 77 OPS+ (Bo Naylor but last year was 122, just 24 years old), backup a 16 (!) - I think they are a real good fit - Jansen could teach Naylor a lot and be able to give him rest. Twins have a 46 and a 125 sharing time (Vázquez seems very good on defense, but no bat at all) so they might be a fit. Those seem the best fits for a Jansen trade - some others could use him as a part time backup but to get anything of note you'd need a team desperate for a solid catcher.

In the end I fear nothing happens and he goes to the market this winter and the Jays lose him and get nothing. Or they overpay him to keep him and regret it quickly as he gets hurt again.

Guessing Francis is out there for as long as he possibly can last tonight. Pop probably next, then Pearson if needed. Ugh. Another frustratingly bad game. Wonder if anyone might be interested in Berrios? At this point blowing up the rotation for whatever you can get, then rebuild in the winter, doesn't sound like a bad idea. For 2024 though it would get very, very ugly.

Feel free to stick this in the site banner:

Yeah, tonight really, really sucked. Guess Francis is the go-to guy now - 2 shutout innings - he must be our pen ace now. Sigh. Good thing about being on the road - just need to cover 8 innings if losing at that point.

Berrios has an underrated bad contract. Underrated in the sense that no one really mentions it. Look at the player options he has for 2027 and 2028 and the incentives baked into it. He could be making over $24 million a year in 2027 and 2028 at ages 33 and 34. Whether the Jays are going for it or retooling this winter, he would be the first contract I'd try to move, but I really don't see a team being suckered into taking it.

The Nationals just received K.C.'s 7th. best prospect (40+ FV, although 2nd in MLB's rankings) and the #39 comp balance pick for Hunter Harvey.

Harvey is controllable through the end of 2025, but hasn't had as good of a season as Richards.

I don't think that's bad for Berrios. It's how free agent deals and extensions work. You either pay for those back end years or you don't get the player. Look at last year, Sonny Gray received 3 years and an option at the age of 34. E-Rod was 31 and signed for 4+1 years at 20 million per.

Berrios' contract is market rate at worse and that's factoring in his decline. In my opinion if he pitches with less pressure every single time out then he will outperform the length/dollar of the contract.

I think Berrios has an opt out (after2025 or 26?). He probably takes the optout unless it is a bad choice like he is injured or is not so good any more. IMO prices will increase so that is another positive factor for Berrios to take the opt out.

Odds of the Jays signing Dallas Keuchel? Lol

Berrios contract is fine. Pitchers don't age like hitters do and he's going to make around $21M a year for the next 4 years. Maybe the last 2 years won't be great but it's not a contract you need to try to shed by any means.

I'm not concerned about Berrios not living up to his contract, TBH. Hitters like Springer, yes, that's a concern when you can just 'lose it' all of a sudden. But history dictates that you can get 32 approximately-league-average starts out of him every year, and every team would sign up for that for $24MM every year. (Plus, unless he's hurt, he's going to opt out after '26, just as a matter of negotiating.)

Berrios has been hit pretty hard the last 3 years, and his K  and swinging strike rate have fallen precipitously this year.  There's a transition that pitchers often have to make mid-career, and sometimes they are able and sometimes not.  I think Berrios will be able to manage it, but it's very far from a certainty.  The only one of his BBRef comps who made the transition nicely (so far) was Aaron Nola, but Nola never lost the ability to miss bats. 

Knock on wood, but what Berrios does offer is good health and relative consistency. As Mike says, he’s going to have to transition to more of a finesse pitcher but I’d be optimistic about his ability to do so. But, again, the contract relative performance is just kind of ok. They need to find some pitching value that they aren’t paying full freight for.

The Star has an article complaining the Jays sell too late which seems odd to me. Yeah, it has happened (Donaldson the prime example) but they also traded just in the nick of time (Austin Martin a prime example there, now -0.4 bWAR with a 99 OPS+ after being a super-stud prospect when traded). I'm thinking Berrios could be that type - trade him now to a contender who is desperate for stable starting pitching with years of control and boom you get some solid prospects. Just hope they don't factor in the strong Jays defense being a big part of why Berrios is doing so well, or they gloss it over hoping for that stable 6 innings per start. FYI: the other part of that trade was Simeon Woods Richardson who has a nice 116 ERA+ but is barely over 5 IP per start and counting on a 265 BABIP (seems too low for a guy with just 7.8 K/9 but who knows?).

Now, do I expect the Jays to be doing a Berrios trade? No. But he is valuable in the same way he was when the Jays got him - cheap contract for what he is, stable 6 IP guy (14 of 20 starts he went 6+, but not in 2 of his last 3). Solid #3/4 guy in a standard rotation, 4/5 in a contenders. But that 5.13 FIP is scary. If someone makes a solid offer I'd go for it. Cleveland might be interested with 2 guys demoted from their rotation, another injured, another with an ERA+ of 80 - that rotation could kill them as the strong pen will pay the price if their rotation is in tatters. A stable 6 IP starter would be a big plus for them and at under $20 mil per Berrios fits their budget. Could do a package deal of him and Kikuchi to help fix that rotation fully at a very affordable price in raw dollars.

Guess Francis is the go-to guy now - 2 shutout innings - he must be our pen ace now.

Francis optioned, Eisert recalled.

Steward Berroa is alive!! He starts today in right field.

River Ryan called up by Dodgers (Keith Law #33 overall prospect).

Brent Honeywell (picked up off waivers yesterday) is starting today.

Current rotation: James Paxton, Gavin Stone, Landon Knack, Justin Wrobleski, Ryan

Injured List: Yamamoto, Kershaw, Miller, Sheehan, May, Gonsolin, Buehler, Glasnow


Go give them a starter for some of those prospects...

Agreed. Give the Dodgers Kikuchi for a nice prospect; sell high

Wild one in Baltimore today.  Ben Rice hits a 3 run homer in the top of the ninth to give the Yankees a 5-3 lead.  The O's load the bases in the bottom of the ninth. With two out, Volpe misplays a ground ball and the score is 5-4.  And then Verdugo misreads a ball hit at him, breaks in and the ball sails over his head for a game-winning double. 

IMO (and it's just that, an opinion), even if Schneider gets "creative" with the bullpen and somehow finds the near-optimal pitcher usage (without the benefit of hindsight), assuming the same pitchers are going to give up the same runs they did in each outing, just re-arrange them a little (without overworking anyone), sure, we might be able to eke out another 3-4 wins. Where does that put us? Still 5+ out of a wildcard.


And is it really doable? I mean, who is dependable enough out of the pen to put 3-4 innings of shutout ball back-to-back? At this point, if we're not up by 3+ going in the 7th, we're probably going to lose, unless the starter is going the distance. Our bullpen just plain sucks. Badly. And that's not all on Atkins - I mean, we if we had 2023 Romano, Swanson, Garcia and Mayza back, they would, at worst, be #2-5 in the bullpen (if you want to put Chad Green and his 187 ERA+ first). That's a disaster that was impossible to predict, I would say. Sure, we might have picked up one or two serviceable relievers, but I don't think there's an easy way to pick up 4 guys that good within a few weeks.

And that's only now, that the offense has turned things around a bit - having better relievers earlier in the season wouldn't have helped that much either, when we never had a lead to protect in the first place.

It's just a lost season, like that one year we had 3 starters get injured in 7-10 days or whatever. It happens.

As I said before, Atkins biggest failure has been bad drafting / prospect development. The Dodgers have players they can call up. Sure, we *HAVE* AAA players, but very few of them are forcing their way into the majors on the pitching side. And on the player side, even when they do get called up, Schneider doesn't play them. 

Wonder if we can trade Green for a couple of good prospects?

Well, the Dodgers starting 9 have 4 players that they drafted, Will Smith, Andy Pages, Gavin Lux and James Outman. The last 3 are replacements for Muncy, Betts and Heyward. There's Miguel Vargas on the bench. Biggio and Teoscar are also on the team.

They look good on the pitching side, but the position player is an other matter.
And even then, they still spent heavily on Glasnow and Yamamoto.
Paxton wasn't that expensive.
Also, they don't have a single home grown player in the pen.
Michael Grove is on the IL with 4 relievers they didn't draft either.

It sure looks like a nice landing spot for Kikuchi if they bother to pick him up.

KK is ok!

I'm sure the bullpen will take care of this lead without any fuss.

Yusei doesn't want the bullpen to have the pressure of a lead today. Very thoughtful.

Correction:Yusei wants to challenge the bullpen.

This will definitely turn out well.

And the challenge is accepted- 7 run lead dispatched in one inning.

Schneider: you think his value has lowered enough or should I let him go longer?

Walker: 30 plus pitches, he's gassed. He looks off.

Schneider: lemme give him another batter.

Hits batter. Pulled. Return will be equivalent to Nats return yesterday (at best).

Guerrero Jr. is going to have a lot of leverage in contract extension negotiations with the Blue Jays this off-season. There will be a lot of pressure on the front office to ensure that he stays in Toronto long-term.

He's said he wants to stay, but honestly what is the upside for him to stay rather than walking in a year and making max with a better team?

Never in doubt.

Demarlo Hale smart enough to skip Richards. Good.

Kikuchi3.83 ERA after 4IP now 4.42 ERA after 5th inning.

Demarlo Hale smart enough to skip Richards.

Then tell me, who was that white-haired pitcher who set the D'Backs down in order in the sixth inning?

Strange days indeed. Normally a 5-4 west coast trip, with one first place team and the defending N:L champs among the opponents, feels like an accomplishment. This week, not so much.

What a long strange trip it's been!

Joe Biden?

He stumbled in his delivery, but he got the job done (he thinks).

The pen just protected a 1 run lead across several innings, picking up 2 holds, a save, and a win in the process. I guess the problem is solved.