Only Chapman's nomination feels wrong to me. The rest are well deserved. Chapman was still pretty good but I thought his defence took a step back last year.

My guess is that just one will win. They will want to spread them around and the Jays have to deal with the fact that their are viewed as that foreign team.

Kirk wont win as he runs like Penguin and looks like bear about to go into hibernation; he doesnt look the part.

Vasho didnt hit well enough.

Pitchers are picked by the Magic 8 Ball

Chapman has taken a step back since he last won

So KK it is.

The competition for best defensive third baseman in the American League appears to be weaker than in the National League.  The best defensive third basemen according to a combination of DRS, UZR and Statcast were probably Ke'Bryan Hayes and Ryan McMahon.  Matt Chapman was probably the best in the American League, and quite a bit better than Jose Ramirez and Alex Bregman.  I would have said that Chapman was good overall, but that might be enough for a Gold Glove in the AL in 2023.

If you're miles ahead and fall back some feet, what difference does it make? It's best defence not Most Improved Player.

"Who's in charge of making sure they don't accidentally get more than 1 Blue Jay winner?"

Big glove. They've got the whole world in the palm of their hand.

Off topic. I streamed The Summer of Soul on the weekend. It's fabulous- Stevie Wonder, Sly Stone, Mavis Staples, Nina Simone and many others at their very best. And a reminder of changes over the last 50 years- "Brother" John Lindsey is introduced to a crowd of 300,000 (almost exclusively) African-Americans in Harlem. He was a white Republican mayor who supported the festival.

Loved Summer of Soul! It was the reason we switched from Netflix to Disney earlier this year - well, that & the Beatles doc. And Only Murders In The Building. And...

I saw Summer of Soul in the cinema the year it came out. I agree it's a wonderful project. I am friends with one of the producers so I had a lot of advance notice about its launch.

FYI: Speaking of awards - Cito Gaston is finally up for the HOF this year. MLB's article - he is up against Davey Johnson (excellent manager, but just 1 WS win), Jim Leyland (long time managing, 1 title), Ed Montague (long time umpire), Hank Peters (GM of the KC A's in 65, O's from 76-87, Cleveland 88-91), Lou Piniella (ugh, please no), Joe West (most games umpired, poorly, but he did do the games) and Bill White (former NL president, first black man to hold a role that high in the executive).

A weak group imo. I'd love for Cito to make it but he won't. Racism kept him from getting jobs post-Toronto (he was the obvious choice for a lot of managing jobs - teams with lots of vets that underachieved - but they wouldn't give it to him like they did Piniella and others) and that will keep him from getting in - a decade with a sub 500 team would've given him the raw win total to get in with the 2 titles. Johnson was an amazing manager but kept getting fired after 2-3 years (guess he was like Billy Martin - 2 year act with a 5 year deal). Leyland & Piniella were the opposite of Cito - 1001 chances but just 1 title each over about 3500 games each. Cito got just under half that opportunity - 1731 games. Remember, Cito was the first black manager to reach the playoffs, the first to win a WS, and the only to repeat as champion (Dusty Baker trying to duplicate that this year).

Can’t recommend Summer of Soul enough! If like me you’re a fan of Sly Stone - the band has to be one of the most important & influential of that period - you’ll be waiting for the Sly doc that SoS director Questlove is making. His book company has also just published a Sly memoir, https://slate.com/culture/2023/10/sly-stone-book-thank-you-memoir-review.html

Sly’s full concert from that Harlem festival is here:
https://youtu.be/uHc_jz4jsQQ?si=m4mxJ8tuZPa2JgBi

Hey Sportsnet. If you keep accepting money from the Province of Alberta to run those Tell The Feds ads about electrical power ad nauseum, you might find that some viewers will prefer watching Sly Stone on YouTube.

Or you could run a PSA from an environmental group about Alberta pausing approvals of alternative energy projects in the province. Maybe Sly would even agree to let his music be the soundtrack- I'm thinking "Stand" would work.

Cito Gaston is one of 4 managers on the hall of game contemporary era ballot. Other managers are Davey Johnson, Lou Pinella, and Jim Leyland.

Hank Peters, Joe West, Ed Montague and Bill White are also on the ballot

Since this thread has morphed into miscellanea, let me recommend the 4-part "30 For 30" program on the 1986 NY Mets. For those disclined to do the math, or disinclined to believe it, yes, that was 37 years ago. Feels more recent.

"Feels more recent."

Cocaine's a helluva drug :)

John Gibbons played 8 games for the 1986 Mets.

I love Cito.

Orelvis at 2B in winter league.

Good lord. If it’s the same guy, I’d (thankfully) forgotten about the Alen Hanson Experience.

Alen Hanson doesn't ring any bells, but Erik Hanson comes to mind.  (1996 Opening Day starter.)

Put it this way. The Alen Hanson Experience was not a cover band, and the haze he was in was not purple.

He was 26 in 2019 when he was here for 48 PAs- no XBH, 3 walks and 17 strikeouts later he was gone. His BBRef page lists his 2nd position as pinch-hitter with no quotation marks around it. He was, to be fair, not a good fielder either.

Alen Hanson is the same guy that was here. I also remember Socrates Brito, Anthony Alford, Derek Fisher and Jonathan Davis. They were all toolsy. Only J Davis had a decent career.

Gives me hope that Cam Eden can give us the D of J Davis.

An interesting post from Sportsnet daydreaming on the Jays in 2024 - proposing they go nuts and get Ohtani DH, Jeimer Candelario for 3B (119 OPS+ last year, 102 lifetime, no QO), Amed Rosario for backup IF/RH 2B (89 OPS+ last year, 95 lifetime, entering age 28 season after 140+ games each of the past 3 years), Harrison Bader as RH CF (69 OPS+ last year, 92 lifetime, but a GG in CF in 2021, 20-3 SB-CS last year), and Isiah Kiner-Falefa as a backup everywhere (78 OPS+ last year, 81 career but excellent on defense with a GG at 3B in Texas and high rankings at SS). Interesting choices - poor offense outside of Ohtani and Candelario, but strong on defense and clears out Espinal.

For the rotation they suggest signing Lance Lynn who sucked last year (77 ERA+) but is only a couple of years away from being great (2021 3rd in Cy voting) so a good comeback candidate - Dodgers have an $18 mil option on him.

It is an interesting mix. I could see Candelario being signed for 3B, with zero risk outside of cash why not? Don't see Rosario coming though (he would want full time play), but IKF would be a nice fit as backup IF who can cover CF when needed. Bader would be interesting as a 4th OF but that horrid bat would worry me and we already have (batting left) Lukes who could fill that slot. I doubt much of what they say will happen, but it does bring in a few interesting names. They also have Schneider in LF, Biggio at 2B.

Jeimer Candelario might be a fit, entering his age 30 season.

Just saw the full article - that was their 'perfect world' situation. They had a batch of other ideas - 10 paths to success. Other players mentioned as potential guys to grab were...

• ---- Free Agents from High Cost to Low Cost ----
• Sign Shohei Ohtani to an 11-year, $489.5-million contract (will get QO)
• Sign Cody Bellinger to a seven-year, $168-million contract (will get QO)
• Sign Yoshinobu Yamamoto to a seven-year, $154-million contract (Japan, so some extra $$$ to his old team)
• Sign Lourdes Gurriel Jr. to a four-year, $72-million contract
• Sign Jorge Soler to a three-year, $48-million contract
• Sign Josh Bell to a two-year, $34-million contract
• Sign Kenta Maeda to a two-year, $32-million contract, backloaded
• Sign Jeimer Candelario to a two-year, $26-million contract
• Sign Kevin Kiermaier to a two-year, $23-million contract
• Sign Michael Lorenzen to a two-year, $22-million contract
• Sign Rhys Hoskins to a one-year, $20-million contract
• Sign J.D. Martinez to a one-year, $18.5-million contract
• Sign Joe Jimenez to a two-year, $18-million contract
• Sign Joc Pederson to a one-year, $12-million contract
• Sign Harrison Bader to a one-year, $9-million contract
• Sign Adam Duvall to a one-year, $9-million contract
• Sign Joey Votto to a one-year, $8-million contract, plus incentives
• Sign Lance Lynn to a one-year, $7.5-million contract
• Sign Isiah Kiner-Falefa to a one-year, $7-million contract
• Sign Amed Rosario to a one-year, $7-million contract
• Sign Kyle Gibson to a one-year, $6.5-million contract
• Sign David Robertson to a one-year, $5.5-million contract
• Sign James Paxton to a one-year, $5-million contract
• Sign Evan Longoria to a one-year, $4-million contract
• Sign Andrew McCutchen to a one-year, $3-million contract
• Sign Gio Urshela to a one-year, $3-million contract
• ---- Trade Ideas ----
• Acquire Tyler O'Neill (1 year control) and prospects for Alek Manoah
• Acquire Dylan Carlson for Alek Manoah
• Acquire Jake Fraley for Nate Pearson and Spencer Horwitz
• Acquire Willy Adames for Santiago Espinal, Chad Dallas, Connor Cooke and Landen Maroudis
• Acquire Jorge Polanco for Yusei Kikuchi
• Acquire prospects for Trevor Richards
• Acquire prospects or cash considerations for Santiago Espinal

Hopefully some of this does happen - obviously many ideas there that won't but quite a few good ideas imo, the trades being the hardest as you need the other team to agree. Free agents it is often a bit more cash or 1 more year to get them to come here. Yamamoto would be soooo sweet to get imo. the O'Neill for Manoah is tempting depending how the Jays scouts feel about O'Neill and how Manaoh looks health wise - his bat was poor in 2023 but a 112 OPS+ lifetime suggests it could be a fluke, GG in '21 fits with the Jays ways. Lots of names to dig into that I hadn't thought of. Opinions?

Ohtani would be great, for sure, but I don't see why you'd want Bader or IKF.

Note that signing a free agent who declined a QO would cost 2 draft picks and a big chunk of international pool money.

Candelario was good in Washington but just replacement value in Chicago. He's never played more than 149 games. 140 this year. He was making just 5M.

We haven't really seen Schneider in LF. We could see Alan Roden at some point but he'll probably have to wait until they need to protect him.

Barger, Jimenez and Martinez are 3 infielders who are ready or near ready and in or near the top 5 in the system. Jimenez will be on his last option while Barger and Martinez will be burning their second options. At some point, might as well see what we have. The offensive bar is pretty low right now.

Andrew McCutchen is an interesting idea. At age 36 posted .776 OPS with 11 stolen bases. However, he was mostly limited to DH last year.

What is the value of some of these guys? Hmm....

• High End: Ohtani is obvious, Bellinger a damn good fit, Yamamoto is an ace.
• Mid-Range: Gurriel is a fit sorta, but I don't see it after being traded away unless the Jays think that'll get Vlad motivated more. Soler a 128 OPS+ last year, but is a RH DH who can play RF when needed.
• $20+ mil: Bell a DH/1B with a 104 OPS+ last year, Maeda a RH SP 102 ERA+ last year, 105 lifetime, a decent #4/5. Jeimer Candelario a switch hitting 3B/1B 119 OPS+ last year, 102 lifetime, entering age 30 season, I like him at that price but think he'll be a lot more. Kiermaier we all know and love but does it make sense - I'd keep him as a late offseason signing if nothing better materializes, Lorenzen a RH SP who counts on defense, tempting if cheap (105 ERA+ last year and career) who is either burning hot or ice cold (ERA by month 7.07-1.95-5.30-1.14-4.22-8.22). Hoskins a 1B/DH 123 OPS+ last year 125 lifetime RH.
• Lower range: Martinez a DH/LF who was basically a RH Belt last year. Jimenez RH relief 13 holds, 3 blown, 11.7 K/9 - don't see it. Pederson LH LF/DH 111 OPS+ last year, 116 lifetime, could fit well.
• Cheap guys (sub $10 mil): Bader=Zimmerman, Duvall covers entire OF, 119 OPS+ last year, 99 lifetime but under 100 games each of the past 2 years. Votto a LH DH who I don't see leaving Cincinnati (either there or retires). Lynn RH SP had a poor year but HR his only issue - drastically higher than ever before so worth a 5th man slot. IKF a slick fielder who'd be a solid backup for SS/2B/3B but at $7 mil might as well just keep Espinal around. Rosario, a better hitter for a middle infield backup, but again, might as well just keep Espinal. Gibson a RH SP who eats innings but 93 ERA+ lifetime - lives and dies by defense so might do well here. Robertson a decent closer but 18-6-10 in Sv-Bl-Hd last year, don't see it working. Paxton a 101 ERA+ last year, but so many injury issues over the years I wouldn't count on much. Longoria is at the end of his career - no more than a platoon guy now I'd skip. McCutchen a RH DH/OF with a 113 OPS+ last year, could mix in well if acceptable on defense. Urshela is unpredictable - could have a 91 OPS+ (last year) 119 (2022), 96 ('21), 134 (19/20 combined) - plays 3B and can cover SS/2B/1B as needed - I think he'd be a decent one to grab if this cheap.
• Trades: O'Neill - RH LF 94 OPS+ last year, but a 148 2 years ago along with a gold glove. Carlson a bit better than Zimmer but not enough to be worth it. Fraley corner LH OF with a 109 OPS+ last year 104 lifetime - meh. Adames a RH SS with a 95 OPS+ last year 107 lifetime but a pure SS so not a good fit imo. Polanco SH middle IF 115 OPS+ last year, 104 and 80 games past 2 years, would be a really nice backup who'd play a lot ala Biggio - on option years ($10 mil 2024, $12 mil 2025) now.

A lot of odd fits there. I see those starting pitchers in the cheap area as tempting, Urshela would be interesting at 3B/1B, Duvall a decent backup/starter for LF if Bellinger can't be signed. Obviously the 3 high ends I'd love to see here, but hopefully the Jays get one of them (ala the past 3 winters). The only DH I'd sign is Ohtani. Others I'd look at in late February when they are getting desperate, thus cheap and signable on a 1 year deal. No need for more relievers. Light hitting middle infielders? No thanks unless under $3 mil (about what Espinal will get).

Yeah. I don't see the "perfect fit" with Rosario. Or the upside with Fraley, who is a below average defender.

Urshela could be a stopgap in case Barger or Martinez gets hot enough to warrant a try.

I could see the Jays signing Soler. It would be contradictory to their obsession with run prevention in 2023 but his age plus lack of defensive value will probably put him at a reasonable enough price point, and the Jays offense badly needs power even if it comes at the expense of defense. Although they could make him the primary DH and still go after a LF, too. I just don’t see many options in free agency.

I wasn't advocating to sign him, he's just someone I could see the Jays going after given how bad the offense was power-wise in 2023. This post season is showing how important home runs are in a lineup, and the Jays simply don't have anywhere near enough of it. Someone like Soler or Teoscar (which might be the better choice when you factor in the optics) would have a lot of value to a Jays team that doesn't have enough of what those two are capable of providing even with the defensive issues. Depending on what the team's plan is for Horowitz in 2024, I could see someone like Hoskins being a possibility as well (for the same reasons).

Although I'm assuming Atkins is going to do what he did last season, which is double down on a weakness. He went a little too far with the "run prevention" aspect, but I'm assuming/hoping he recognizes the need for power.

I have to admit that my favorite idea would be to resign KK and trade Varsho for a 2B, 3B or OF equivalent (using Schneider and Biggio to fill whatever gap isn't filled). Unfortunately, you may be selling low on Varsho and I think the KK ship has sailed.

KK just won a fielding bible award for CF

And Gabriel Moreno just won the catchers award. Will the hurt ever stop for Ross Atkins?

Sorry - my post should have said "RHH OF" - and with an offensive rather than defensive profile.