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Another short-handed team crosses the border.


The Cardinals are scrapping for the NL's third Wild Card spot - they're up by just half a game on the Phillies, who are a) even in the loss column, and b) have already won the season series from St.Louis. They can't be happy about this. They dismissed manager Mike Shildt immediately after losing the Wild Card game last year, coming off a 90 win season - they won 91 games in Shildt's other full season at the helm. Expectations run high in St. Louis. Always, and just because. They employ two of the very best players in the whole National League - first baseman and favourite for this year's MVP Paul Goldschmidt and third baseman Nolan Arenado. They're the St. Louis Cardinals. They draw roughly 3.5 million fans every summer and they expect to win. Since their last losing season - which was back in 2007, and is their only losing season in the current millennium  - they've been to the post-season nine times and the World Series twice, winning it all in 2011.

But the outfield of O'Neill, Bader, and Carlson, which was so productive last season, has been decidedly less than that in 2022. And the St.Louis starting rotation has sprung a bunch of holes. Veterans Jon Lester and J.A. Happ, who helped hold it all together in the second half of last season, both decided they'd seen enough hotel rooms and earned enough money and that this was a fine time to retire. Miles Mikolas has returned to full time duty and he actually made it back to the All-Star game, but Dakota Hudson just went on the IL with a neck strain.  Meanwhile, our old chum Steven Matz whom the Cards signed this off-season, just returned to the rotation after missing two months with a sore shoulder. He was in the midst of putting together his best outing as a Cardinal when he hurt his knee chasing after a slow roller up the first base line. An MRI confirmed a tear in his left MCL and surgery is a definite possibility. To complete their tale of woe, ace Jack Flaherty and closer Alex Reyes have been dealing with shoulder issues all season. Flaherty made three brief starts in June before going back on the IL, and Reyes has yet to throw a pitch this season.

But hey - Adam Wainwright just keeps rolling on. And on. Maybe some of us assumed that Wainwright would, like long-time teammates Molina and Pujols, call it a career after this season. After all, these three guys are really old by baseball standards. But while Molina and Pujols have been playing like old fellows Wainwright is still really good, still baffling major league hitters with that damn curveball. Wainwright and Molina have started 316 games together, second only to Mickey Lolich and Bill Freehan in Detroit from 1963 to 1975; earlier this season the Cardinals won their 203rd game (that's team wins, not pitcher wins) when that pair started, which broke the major league record set long ago by Warren Spahn and Del Crandall in Milwaukee. Despite not getting into the rotation until he was 25 years old - he pitched out of the bullpen in his first season, and saved the final game in the NLCS (fanning Carlos Beltran for the final out) and the World Series (fanning Brandon Inge for the final out) - and despite losing almost three full seasons to injury, Wainwright's won 190 games in the majors, all of them as a Cardinal. I see no reason why he wouldn't return next season, get past 200 career wins, and see if Cooperstown calls. He never won the Cy Young - he's been the runner-up twice, and third in the voting twice. He does have a pair of 20 win seasons, and two more 19 win seasons.

This will be just the second time Wainwright has pitched in Toronto - the other occasion was twelve years ago, when he lost 5-0 to Brandon Morrow, who scattered five hits over eight innings. I expect  he remembers. Wainwright was roughed up early in that one, with back-to back homers by Vernon Wells and Adam Lind staking the Jays to a first inning lead; Wells hit another homer in the third.

As everyone has already noted, the Cards will be coming to Toronto without their two best players, Goldschmidt and Arenado. Goldschmidt's usual caddies have been either Juan Yepez or the venerable Albert Pujols, but Yepez hurt his arm making a throw from the outfield so he's not going to be an option. They do have all around utility whiz Brendan Donovan to take over third base for the moment. The Cardinals are already without two regulars - elderly catcher Yadier Molina is supposed to start a rehab assignment on Thursday, and centre fielder Harrison Bader has been out for more than a month with plantar fascitis in his right foot. He began a rehab assignment on Friday, and his foot began hurting again and hasn't played since.

Gosh. I don't seem to feel bad for them at all. Is that wrong?

Naaahhhh...
 
Finally - happy 79th to that old midnight rambler. Have some sympathy, have some courtesy...

I hope we're not too Messianic
or a trifle too Satanic
we just love to play the blues


Matchups!

Tue July 26 - Pallante (3-4, 3.34) vs Berrios (7-4, 5.22)
Wed July 27 - Wainwright (6-8, 3.40) vs Gausman (7-7, 3.00)
St.Louis at Toronto, July 26-27 | 170 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#418017) #
Manoah talks Gausman. Gausman talks Manoah.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kevin-gausman-on-alek-manoah-alek-manoah-on-kevin-gausman/
Chuck - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#418018) #
without their two best players

Per both BRef and FG, the two best position players in the entire National League!

Mike Green - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#418021) #
Ah, but it's the weaker league, Chuck!  Big fish in a small pond.
jerjapan - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#418022) #
Well I am just a monkey man ...

The back catalogue is pretty flawless before the 80s, but that one is near the top. 


hypobole - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#418024) #
Didn't realize just how good Goldschmidt and Arenado have been this year. FG has Aaron Judge as the best position player at 5.6 WAR. The 2 Cards are 2nd and 3rd at 5.1 and 4.9 WAR. There are 11 teams that have less than their combined 10 WAR.

Cards are tied for 3rd with the Jays at 18.1 WAR. Losing that 10 WAR should be huge. It's up to the Jays to take advantage.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#418028) #
Pallante has a GB% of 63.7% this year. The absence of Arenado could be an especially significant factor tonight.
Jevant - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#418032) #
Glad to see the Jays have taken advantage of a softer part in the schedule over the last 9 games, hopefully we can continue it this week.

Hopefully the bats keep going. A 4-2 week seems like an attainable goal and one that should keep us moving forward towards the trade deadline.
jerjapan - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#418033) #
We signed our top pick.
https://bluejaysnation.com/2022/07/26/2022-mlb-draft-tracker-the-blue-jays-have-signed-top-pick-brandon-barriera/
BJN have been doing good work covering the players signed and the money remaining.  Around 79K left according to Brennan Delaney. 

We signed Barriera and Toman well over slot.  once again, the FO is willing to pay for their guys.  based on the comments and coverage, it seems like another quality draft for us. 
Leaside Cowboy - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#418034) #
The Rolling Stones - Live! at the Ballpark

1989 - September 3rd / 4th - CNE Stadium - opener Living Color
1989 - December 3rd / 4th - SkyDome - opener Living Color

1994 - August 19th / 20th - CNE Stadium - opener Stone Temple Pilots
1994 - December 3rd - SkyDome - opener Spin Doctors

1998 - April 26th - SkyDome - opener Wide Mouth Mason

*2002 - October 18th - SkyDome - opener No Doubt

2005 - September 26th - Rogers Centre - opener Beck


*2nd venue for 2 shows (1st venue - October 16th - ACC)

92-93 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 12:24 PM EDT (#418035) #
Goldschmidt, Arenado, and Edman are also 1st, 3rd, and 6th by bWAR. It's a pretty mediocre offense without the two big bats in the middle, and Wainwright hasn't been pitching all that well lately. Might as well sweep em.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#418036) #
Less than 1 week till the trade deadline.

a) Will Soto be traded? If so, where?
b) Jays get pitching only?
c) How many pitchers do we trade for?
d) Name 2 prospects we trade.

My guesses.
a) no
b) yes
c) 3
d) Gabriel Martinez/Nick Frasso.
whiterasta80 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 01:34 PM EDT (#418039) #
a) Will Soto be traded? If so, where?

No.  Unless the price is the equivalent of Martinez, Moreno, and Pearson. But I suspect the price right now is more like Bichette, Gurriel, Martinez, Moreno, and Tiedemann. 

b) Jays get pitching only?Yes, unless Biggio is traded.  Then we add a lefty bat

c) How many pitchers do we trade for?3 relievers, one with starting experience. I think that we get priced out of the starters market and a swingman (Garrett Richards? Matt Moore? Fullmer?) is plan B

d) Name 2 prospects we trade.Nobody major.  Jiminez or Robberse at the worst.  I don't see us swinging big.  If we do then I think Moreno is the one to go.  Its basically impossible to outperform our Kirk/Jansen platoon right now.


Jevant - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#418041) #
a) Will Soto be traded? If so, where?

Yes, 101%. My guess is SF or SD.

b) Jays get pitching only?

No. I think there is a LH (or switch hitting) bench/U bat in addition to multiple arms.

c) How many pitchers do we trade for?

At least 2 (one reliever and one starter), with a 3rd either via trade or acquired off the scrap heap or someone else's DFA.

d) Name 2 prospects we trade.

Gabi Moreno and Nick Fraze, in a package for Castillo, Montas or Soto (in the event my Soto prediction is wrong).
scottt - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#418042) #
Frasso is an interesting guy.
Had extensive elbow reconstruction, not TJ but something involving a brace.
Now hitting triple digits at some local ballpark scoreboards.
Could be that elite reliever the Jays have been looking for and not that far in the future.

I would hope they keep Moreno in case a catcher get hurts.

Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#418043) #
Gabi Moreno and Nick Fraze, in a package for Castillo, Montas or Soto

There's no real reason for Cincinnati, Oakland, or Washington to be all that interested in Moreno unless they plan to move him somewhere - to another team or another position.
85bluejay - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#418044) #
I am interested in what the Marlins will do - buy/sell/status quo? The Marlins have quality pitching at both the major and minor league level and need position players help - also catcher Jacob Stallings whom they acquired last winter has been a huge disappointment and they may be ready to move on.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#418045) #
It's an unusual confluence of events. The Blue Jays most obvious trading chip is a catcher. Catcher is always one of the toughest positions to fill. But the three lousy teams with a good starting pitcher on the market each has a good in-house option for that position already.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#418046) #
I am interested in what the Marlins will do

That seems more doable - a package involving Moreno on this end, and Pablo Lopez on the other.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#418047) #
Lopez' velocity is down this year by over 1 mph, and he's never really had a chance to throw many innings because of COVID as much as anything.  A gamble, but probably worth it. 
85bluejay - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#418049) #
Pablo Lopez does seem the most logical and prudent ask but I'm much more of a gambler and would be most interested in Eury Perez (AA) or Max Meyer especially if the Marlins are still interested in contending this year. - I think both can help later this year and I really like the upside & years of control - I don't expect that would be the Jays inclination.
92-93 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#418050) #
There are probably some bold deals out there beyond Soto that the Jays could pursue if they were willing to substract from their current offensive core mid-season. A team like the Giants might be interested in Jansen, and they have fallen so far back of the Dodgers that trading Rodon makes sense.
bpoz - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#418051) #
The improvement for Jansen is a lot more Hrs. The bb/k, Avg and OBP are all at his normal levels. He has always had a good bb/k which has helped his OBP every year.

Kirk is awesome. Allstar. Moreno has a great arm. He probably hits well SSS. So C does not have to bat 9th in the order.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#418052) #
I think any SP the Jays target should be either (a) someone the Jays feel comfortable starting against the best teams in baseball during the postseason, or (b) someone who can competently eat innings and help protect the bullpen over the next three months. The important thing is not to confuse the two roles. You don't want to end up having to start pitcher (b) against an elite opponent in a critical postseason game.

Right now I would feel comfortable with Manoah / Gausman / Berrios / Stripling as the four starting pitchers in a seven-game series, but of course that quartet may not be fully healthy or effective come October. It would be preferable to add another front-end starter like Castillo and use Stripling as the swingman.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#418054) #
Come on down, Tarik Skubal
GabrielSyme - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 05:45 PM EDT (#418055) #
It is really disappointing that so many home games are played against teams lacking some of their best players. If we sneak into the playoffs by a game or two, there will be plenty of people who will look at our season with suspicion. Now, the Jays played under a significant disadvantage in 2020 and 2021, so you could see this as evening the scales, but I still don't like it.
Spifficus - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#418056) #
The players ineligible to cross the border had plenty of time, and made their choice. I have no sympathy, and don't think it casts any shadow on the team's success.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#418057) #
Skubal had a brilliant start to the season. In his first 10 starts, he had a 2.15 ERA and opponents hit .215/.249/.299 against him.

In his nine starts since then, he has a 6.00 ERA and opponents have hit .277/.337/.489 against him.

So which Skubal is the real Skubal? Maybe the Tigers are trying to cash in on his overall success in 2022 before he turns into a pumpkin.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#418058) #
Bowden gave a rundown of where each team is at leading up to the Aug. 2 deadline. He said the Jays are looking to add a SP and a LH bat, and that they’re “involved” in the Soto and Castillo sweepstakes — whatever that means. He adds that they have the money and prospects to make a deal happen.
Jevant - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#418059) #
I hear what you are saying, but I firmly believe the Jays' disadvantages over the 20 & 21 seasons so far outweigh any benefits this year. And the benefits this year are simply because of choices that players make because they don't wish to leave the USA (notably, players that make their home in other countries would need to be vaccinated to enter the US to play there as well).

Could not care less if people view the season with suspicion because Goldschmidt chose to sit out 2 games.
Paul D - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#418060) #
I mean, the Jays also have a disadvantage this year
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#418061) #
The Molina effect - St.Louis pitchers have a 3.44 ERA when old Yadier is catching, 4.04 with the other guys.
mathesond - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#418062) #
"I mean, the Jays also have a disadvantage this year"

What will it take for Tapia to get some respect around here?
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#418063) #
Probably when Tapia is replaced with some muscle head white guy who doesn’t look or play unique…then we will likely stop hearing about him in negative takes. Lyle Overbay after hamate bone, Dickerson, Tellez, Lamb…never heard any complaints about those guys.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#418064) #
Padres Gore is going to IL with elbow inflammation. Certainly impacts their capital for a Soto trade. Maybe brings them on par to teams like the Goants and Jays now.
Kasi - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:04 PM EDT (#418065) #
All those players who can't come up here to play are also players that we couldn't sign in the offseason or can't trade for now. Remember everyone saying that we should totally trade for Benintendi only for us to find out he isn't vaccinated and can't even play up here. Who knows if Soto is even vaccinated now?
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#418066) #
Oh, I think everyone pertinent will have finished their research by October if it comes to that.
dalimon5 - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#418067) #
Right now it’s an issue, but in the off-season if they acquired someone then I think the likelihood is that that player would agree to be vaccinated.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#418068) #
Why would you think that? Kyrie irving missed half the frikkin season. The Sixers had no Thybulle for playoff games in Toronto.

Yeah, there are some guys who do change their minds, like those 2 Orioles, but some have very deep rooted anti-vax opinions. Not everyone is the same.
uglyone - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#418069) #
Want the jays to go to the WS more than ever just to see what these maga dummies do.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#418070) #
uglyone, you might want to watch your terminology. Unless you want to set off our resident anti-vaxxer again.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#418071) #
I would definitely pull Berrios here.
bpoz - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#418072) #
3-3 score. It is ok but I want a win.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:05 PM EDT (#418073) #
Kyrie irving missed half the frikkin season.

Kyrie marches to his own drummer. I just think Andrew Wiggins will probably be the more common model, with the exception of someone like Kyle Gibson, who's in a very different situation.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#418074) #
Berrios did better than I expected.  Glad to be wrong.  
uglyone - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#418075) #
"uglyone, you might want to watch your terminology. Unless you want to set off our resident anti-vaxxer again."

I mean the vaxxes already rendered me chemically castrated and enslaved me with microchip tags so what worse can he do to me?
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:30 PM EDT (#418076) #
Summer of George!!
bpoz - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#418077) #
Pen needs to shut them out.
Jevant - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#418078) #
Would be nice if we could avoid having to use the bigger guns in the bullpen tonight. Phelps doing his part to make it so.
Jevant - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#418080) #
Ian Happ connected with the Padres and Blue Jays. That's an interesting name that historically has hit RHP well. He's played every non C and SS position across his career, so he'd be an interesting possible fit for this lineup (though I'm not sure who he displaces at this point).

Miami is apparently also now considering offers for Pablo Lopez, and Detroit for Skubal. Both of those names would be fascinating to explore (particularly the former).
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#418081) #
The combination of the shoulder injury and the drop in velocity makes me somewhat wary of Pablo Lopez. I wonder how well he would do against the powerhouses in the AL.

He did have an excellent start tonight against Cincy.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:13 PM EDT (#418082) #
Ian Happ would be a nice addition. Would he bump Tapia or Zimmer off the roster? Tapia has been good in June and July, but Zimmer is the superior defender.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#418083) #
Buck's getting a little hoarse after three hours. It's probably been a while since he'd had to talk this much. Get some rest, sir!
scottt - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#418084) #
Sucked that Beasley walked a couple of guys.
He's lucky to escape without a bunch of earned runs.
The velo is decent but he spikes his fastballs too often.
His secondary pitches aren't not very good either.
Kinda like the opposite of Max Castillo.

John Northey - Tuesday, July 26 2022 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#418085) #
For trades it is safe to assume non-American players are vaccinated or they wouldn't be allowed into the USA. Thus Soto is on the "safe to trade for" list. Outside of that we'd only know based on who showed up here for games.
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 05:47 AM EDT (#418086) #
That was the 12th consecutive home win behind Berrios, tying the record set by Roy Halladay.
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 07:02 AM EDT (#418087) #
Travis Snider was back in Toronto and discussing mental health on twitter.

I find it interesting given the poor record of developing prospects in his era.

Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 07:09 AM EDT (#418088) #
Adam Wainwright also has reverse splits this year. He has been torched by right-handed hitters on the road- it's perfect timing for a Jansen/Kirk game.

This year does have a bit of a 2015 feel to it, no?
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:10 AM EDT (#418089) #
It does. The nice thing is that the team should be largely intact in 2023.

The trade deadline should be pretty exciting. The front office has a chance to really put the team over the top this year (and maybe next year as well).
Petey Baseball - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#418092) #
In 2015, I believe the run started after a listless effort against a bad Phillies team at home to drop them a gave below .500 in late July.

The Tulowitzki trade came in the middle of the night, they started winning, and it seemed like they made up a bazillion games on the Yankees in such a short amount of time and had caught them even before Labour Day.

I feel like even with the pitching injuries, this years Yanks team is much better and will avoid an extended slump which would allow the Jays to catch them.

Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:13 AM EDT (#418094) #
The Yankees were up 7 on July 28, 2015 after a 21-5 shellacking of Texas.  Their record was 57-43.  They are definitely a better club in 2022, and they have a bigger lead.  But, the Blue Jays in 2015 made up 13 games on them from July 28 to the end of the season, and (heresy alert) this is a better club also.  The odds are very much against them, needless to say. 
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:25 AM EDT (#418097) #
Friend of the Box, Adam Chaleff, is up to good trouble
NYJaysFan36 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:33 AM EDT (#418098) #
a) I can see a situation where Soto stays and the new owners are left to sort it out. They have over two years to get it done.
b) Probably. I don't see a hole in the regular lineup
c) 2. And it could be two guys who are currently starters. Toronto has five above average relievers. That should be enough for most meaningful situations.
d) Orelvis and Frasso

I know Jano's one of my faves, but what does everyone think of Castillo for Jansen, Orelvis, and Frasso?
85bluejay - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#418099) #
Unfortunately, Adam Chaleff complaint will be swept under the carpet like almost everything else in Toronto - I can't remember the last time anyone (doesn't matter political stripe) was held accountable in Toronto. John Sewell, where have you gone!
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#418100) #
The front office doesn't not like to trust young relievers late in the season.

They could push Stripling back in the pen and punt Kikuchi, but I don't see them doing both.

A contending team does not trade its primary catcher late in the year.
Houston is the team who needs a catcher the most but the guy they get will probably DH more than catch.

At some point there is a 40 roster concern. Guys who are currently on the 40 and have no path to Toronto are the ones they need to trade or eventually lose for nothing. Guys who don't need to be added until December 23 should be kept if possible.

Payroll will soon rise. Controllable guys will be needed more and more. Can't really just replace the departing guys with more expensive guys.

Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:53 AM EDT (#418101) #
It doesn't make sense to trade Jansen.  He's actually been (shockingly) the best player on the club when he's played- their best playoff lineup will have Jansen catching most of the time.  And perhaps more importantly, he is much more valuable to the Jays than the Reds because of his service time and age. 
NYJaysFan36 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#418102) #
I agree that I'd rather see him play in the playoffs. Just seems like catcher is the most logical place for the Jays to find a higher value player to send back. I think I'm thinking of this too much as though Toronto was a middling team instead of #3 in the league.
85bluejay - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#418103) #
I think Moreno is the most likely of the 3 catchers to go - Jansen & Kirk are both producing well and it's easy to see an eventual transition from Jansen to Kirk - also most clubs selling will likely value that Moreno has his full years of control still intact.

Hope the Jays can hang on to their top pitching prospects while buying in the next week.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#418104) #
Ben Clemens at FG is doing his annual Top 50 trade values. Into the 20's and we have a couple of Blue Jays - Kirk and Bo.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-trade-value-21-to-30/
Ryan Day - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#418105) #
Jansen's arbitration-eligible this year, so he's not going to be too appealing to a team that's trying to get younger and cheaper. If the Jays trade him, I'd expect it to happen in the off-season, giving them a chance to break in their new catching team during spring training.

At least short-term, Jansen probably has more value to the Jays than anyone else, because he's familiar with the pitching staff. I don't imagine the Jays want to break that up while attempting a playoff run.
Petey Baseball - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#418107) #
Surprisingly enough, the Yankees have yet to go to the west coast. They have a couple of grueling road trips (St Louis to Seattle to Boston in August) and then a 9 game Oakland-LA-Tampa in September. You could possibly see a scenario where an older team such as them simply falls apart down the stretch, but as MG points out, they're just too good of a team to be optimistic about this.

That's also putting aside that they will very likely add significantly during the deadline given their payroll and the title drought in New York. It just feels different than '15, unfortunately.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#418108) #
I think Gabe will be a good to very good player but it also might be true that this point - where he's a consensus top-5 prospect in baseball at age 22 with all years of control left - may be his peak value point.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#418109) #
It would be helpful if all the Jays top prospects performed well and stayed healthy over the next week.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#418110) #
I don't think there is any chance Jansen is traded this week. It would be a huge blow to the team to move him, and subtracting from the big league team at this point is counter productive if you're trying to maximize 2022 performance. If a catcher is moved this week, it will be Moreno. Once we get to the off-season, then trading Jansen becomes more realistic (assuming they want Kirk/Moreno as the tandem in 2023-beyond), but no chance it happens now.

The issue with Soto is that the Nats have Ruiz at catcher so they may not value Moreno as a trade piece. Maybe if the Angels put Ohtani on the market, they might view Moreno more favorably as a return, but I can't imagine the Angels trading the one player that brings people to the ball park even though it makes baseball sense to do so.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#418111) #
As much as some people think the Jays need a lefty bat because the lineup tilts right, it's not RHP's we have issues with. 118 wRC+ vs RHP, 108 wRC+ vs lefties.

Outside of Zimmer, who simply can't hit, the only player worse than Tapia's 102 wRC+ vs righties is Espinal at 78.

Worse than Tapia's 93 wRC+ vs lefties - Springer 87, Gurriel 86, Biggio 80, Bo 79. And Collins 182/182/182 in 11 PA's with 5 K's.



soupman - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#418112) #
i may be alone on this, but i'd like to see them move vgj for soto, especially if it's a sign and trade. there are several reasons: 1)soto has a longer track record, and is (imo) a better player today, and likely to remain so going forward; 2) prevents soto from going to NYY or BOS; 3)soto's body will most likely age better; 4) 1b will be opened up and allow more playing time for the logjam at C/OF; 5)contributes to relieving the imbalance in the lineup

Chuck - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#418113) #
I don't think there is any chance Jansen is traded this week.

I agree, for the reasons you cited. And I see one more reason. If he really has turned a corner offensively, proving that over the remaining 70 games would only increase his trade value. He started hitting in the second half last season but this strong run he is on is only 150 PA in length (but has seen 16 HR!), not necessarily enough to convince another team he can be relied upon as an offensive contributor.

92-93 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#418114) #
Is there a way to see the breakdown of how the Jays hitters fare versus RH SP compared to RH RP?
hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#418115) #
A huge need at the deadline that few have mentioned is a quality lefty reliever. Right now it's Mayza, and that's it.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#418116) #
Matt Gage was quite effective while here and has been dominating in triple A (23 innings, 14 hits, 5 walks, 28 strikeouts, 0 HRs, 1.17 ERA).
Nigel - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#418117) #
As I said earlier this year, your view on needs at the deadline can vary depending on whether you are building the team for the playoffs or for regular season success. Normally, I would heavily defer to the latter. This one time, I lean towards constructing a playoff roster. I say that largely because the team is so strong that I think it highly likely that this is a playoff team (of some sort) this year and next (at least) without any additions. In that context, I think another high leverage reliever is the best use of acquisition assets and, as hypobole notes, a LH reliever would top my list. If Mayza got hurt or was ineffective the club has an issue.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#418118) #
I can't figure that out exactly, 92-93, but I could check by inning.  The Blue Jays have a wRC+ of 75 against RHP in the 9th inning (which ranks 20th among teams), and a wRC+  of 80 against RHP in the 8th and 9th innings (which ranks 23rd among teams).  For comparison, the Dodgers and Yankees have wRC+ of 126 and 123 against RHP in the 8th and 9th innings.  If we go further to 8th and 9th innings and high leverage situations, the Blue Jays have a wRC+ of 60 which ranks 22nd.  It's only 95 PA though, but it does seem reflective as their team K and W rates are also 22nd.

If the implication is that the RH nature of the lineup makes them susceptible to the hard throwers with the sharp sliders who dominate the high leverage short-inning relievers, there's evidence for that.  We remember the Royals' pen and the 2015 club, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a Zobrist-type around, in addiiton to Biggio and (lord strike me down) Tapia.


greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#418119) #
I think as long as the RP is effective against LHH, maybe the handedness of the pitcher doesn’t matter all that much. For example, Cimber is very good against LHH.

It’s tough when there is a limited supply of arms available. In general, you don’t want to be trading high-value prospects for a reliever, unless he’s truly elite (like Andrew Miller some years ago).
hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#418120) #
Couple of things

Hunter Mense talks Jays org's emphasis on swing decisions and grading them starting in the minors. Kirky of course is the prototypical excellent decision maker, but also a special mention of Spencer Horwitz.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/torontos-hunter-mense-on-developing-good-swing-decisions/

At MLBTR, Rizzo reported as saying Corbin's contract will not be attached and dilute return, whether Soto or Bell or any other.
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#418121) #
Mayza just got the win by retiring a single batter.
That's all the need they had for him in that game.

The Yankees pen has--maybe had--guys that can come out and gave them 2 or 3 shutout innings.
When the Jays' bats weren't going, they needed some relievers to setup and close when the regulars weren't available. They haven't had a need for that lately.

Still, they would find a use for a guy who can come out and strike out the side.

The Jays are vulnerable to right handed side-armers. There aren't too many of those around.
They seem to do poorly against lefties because they don't anticipate the trajectory of the pitches.
Maybe they need to find better pitching machines or get some old southpaws to throw BP.



whiterasta80 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#418122) #
The only catcher I'd be happy to trade right now is Moreno and only if he's valued as the top 5 prospect in baseball that he is. 

As for Ian Happ. I'm not sure that he's better than Cavan Biggio (post-return).  It might be nice to have a second player of that ilk but I don't see it as essential.
dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#418123) #
Two names to keep an eye on are David Peralta at ARZ who will be a free agent by end of the year and Joey Wendle of the Marlins. The former obviously would be a rental player getting dumped while the latter would be part of a larger trade where Jays get pitching with Wendle and Marlins get more offense from the Jays.

I could see trades along the lines of:

Peralta for 2 minor leaguers.

Wendle and Pablo Lopez for Gurriel and prospects.

Jays need that LH bat. For starters there isn’t much besides Skubal, Pablo and Castillo who can help the Jays. Maybe Mahle. Everybody else I would pass.


dalimon5 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#418124) #
From MLB Trade Rumors:

“ It’s hard not to wonder just what Mahle’s performance might look like in another uniform, as his numbers away from the homer-happy Great American Ball Park are tantalizing. Few pitchers have such a dramatic home/road split as Mahle, who since 2020 has pitched to a 2.93 ERA on the road but an ugly 4.89 mark at home. Mahle has allowed 1.75 homers per nine innings pitched in Cincinnati, compared to just 0.52 long balls per nine on the road. He also has a better strikeout rate and opponents’ hard-hit rate than either Castillo or Montas, dating back to 2020 — albeit with the highest walk rate of the three.”
JohnL - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#418125) #

Unfortunately, Adam Chaleff complaint will be swept under the carpet like almost everything else in Toronto - I can't remember the last time anyone (doesn't matter political stripe) was held accountable in Toronto.

Well, other than election defeats, the last time I remember was when Jim Karygiannis was kicked out of office for violating election spending rules. How did that happen? Came from a complaint filed by Adam Chaleff. And earlier, a judge ruled that Rob Ford had to be kicked out of the Mayor's chair for conflict of interest. (It was reversed on appeal.) How did that happen? A complaint filed by Adam Chaleff.

So good luck to an old Bauxite. (Was his handle "A"?

scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#418126) #
It's been a weird year.

By bWAR,

Kirk 3.5
Springer 2.8
Vlad 2.7
Chapman 2.1
Gurriel 1.9
Teoscar 1.9
Espinal 1.9
Jansen 1.4
Bichette 1.2
Biggio 1.1
Tapia 0.1

It feels like Tapia has recovered his negative value from early on.
Not really what I expected in April. Some guys are able to do more, but nobody is playing poorly either.
Pretty balanced lineup.

Now the pitching: Still bWAR

Manoah 3.5
Gausman 1.6
Stripling 1.3
Romano 1.2
Phelps 0.8
Mayza 0.7
Garcia 0.6
Cimber 0.4
(Gage 0.4)
Castillo 0.1
Thornton 0.0
Beasley -0.1
Banda -0.1
Berrios -0.2
Kikuchi -0.5
Richards -0.5

No reason to keep Beasley and Banda around.
Richards has had ups and down, but so have Kikuchi and Berrios.
Cimber has not been as dominant as last year.
Phelps has been the unsung hero.
Stripling has been great, but I don't know if he can keep doing that.
But yeah, gimme 2 guys between Romano and Garcia.



Thomas - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#418127) #
Mahle's not vaccinated. Not worth discussing.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#418128) #
It's too bad. A trade to the Jays could really give his career a shot in the arm.
jerjapan - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#418129) #
Shulman was talking about Gage on some spring training game that got televised, mentioning him as a standout in camp.  he's a made-changes-in-the-offseason guy, and i agree with mike, he deserves another look. 

one thing i will say with this FO and their pen management, they are sticking to their internal evaluations and rankings with guys like Beasley remaining ahead of Gage.  They did it last year with Saucedo when the pen needed anyone who could throw strikes, which appears to my eye to be the only thing Saucedo does well.   but i do like that the team is consistent with this approach, at least. 
99BlueJaysWay - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#418130) #
Anyone else surprised by the complete lack of movement so far? Less than a week out and zero trades seems weird
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#418131) #
Most of the moves will happen on Aug 1-2, I think.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#418132) #
What significant trades have been made since the season started?  I'm struggling to recall any.  Usually there's one or two before the deadline rush. 
whiterasta80 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#418133) #
I'll admit that I'm surprised about no movement.  Not necessarily that the Jays haven't done anything because I don't think we are in a "have to get ahead of the market" position (like the Brewers were with CC Sabathia in 2007 for example).

But I am quite surprised that nobody else has acted. The orioles, white sox, red sox, guardians, giants, phillies, and cardinals all need every win they can get.  Not every one of those teams will end up being buyers but arguments can be made for each.  
Probably just a case of one shoe dropping and then the floodgates opening.


92-93 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#418134) #
Joc Pederson and Nelson Cruz were the only "big" names that had been acquired by this time last year. Things started heating up 5 days before the deadline, which this year would be Friday. Giddy up.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:46 PM EDT (#418135) #
I guess the Tellez/Richards or the Panik/Dickerson/Cimber trades don't count!  Have we even had one comparable to either of those?  It does seem uncommonly dead to me.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#418136) #
Notwithstanding Wainwright's reverse splits this year, Tapia gets the start for Gurriel Jr. and Biggio gets the start for Espinal.  Whatever.  Wainwright hasn't had reverse splits in prior years, and  Espinal at least could probably use the day off.  Schneider probably is trying to keep Tapia fresh- I still don't see him as being worth the effort (shaming!), but I won't dispute that he has been a better player over the last 8 weeks including looking less awful in the field. 
Jevant - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#418137) #
Tigers are also starting a LHP tomorrow, so if you don't get Tapia/Biggio in there tonight, you probably aren't doing it on Thursday either.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#418138) #
Yep, there was no way Tapia was going to sit 3 day in a row right now, and rightfully so. Gurriel has had a couple of scary looking slides the last few days. It's good to see Teoscar back in RF after his wonky slide last night.
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#418139) #
Panik moves are always fun.
scottt - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:13 PM EDT (#418140) #
BA now ranks Moreno as #1.
Mlb has him at #1 also.
Fangraphs has him at #4.


Glevin - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#418141) #
I'd be fine trading Moreno but only for an elite player coming back. Jays don't have any glaring needs. Offense is tremendous, too starters are good. Bullpen could use another arm and end of rotation could get another guy, but those aren't pieces you trade elite prospects for.
James W - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 04:57 PM EDT (#418142) #
BBREF doesn't list Joe Panik playing anywhere this season, so any "Panik move" would be relatively easy (though ... why?)
Jevant - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#418144) #
Andrew Chafin the only Tiger not headed to Toronto this weekend. Guess that means we can cross him off the trade possibilities list (though it does mean the rest of the Tigers BP is available for us to trade for).
hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#418145) #
Baseball is weird. Astros lose 2 of 3 to the A's at home. Sweep a 2 game set vs the Yankees, go to Seattle and end their 14 game streak with a 3 game sweep. Face the A's again and get swept in 3.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#418146) #
BBREF doesn't list Joe Panik playing anywhere this season

He went to the Marlins last season. His career now sleeps with the fishes.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#418148) #
No, sports fans. Vladimir Guerrero the elder and Albert Pujols were not teammates on the Angels. Pujols went to Anaheim in 2012; Guerrero's last season with the Angels was 2009 and he retired after the 2011 season.
Chuck - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:10 PM EDT (#418149) #
Well that was monumentally stupid.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:40 PM EDT (#418150) #
Good call to go to the pen. 
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#418151) #
Not his night. Be much worse if the Cardinals hadn't run into a couple of outs.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#418152) #
That aged well.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#418153) #
Puhols was hitting .156/.277/.271 against RH pitching when the night was young.
Dr. Zarco - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:49 PM EDT (#418154) #
Man. Feels like Gausman has had a number of chances to complete sweeps this year and has not been at his best (or not gotten any support). Tough one so far.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:51 PM EDT (#418155) #
Could use some bullpen upgrades..
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#418156) #
Tapia got out of the box quickly that time.  Sure makes a big difference.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#418157) #
There's really not much point in even swinging at that damn curveball, is there?
uglyone - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#418158) #
Hey you know it's no crime to let one of your top SPs go a third time through the order on 86 pitches, even if he's scuffling, rather than a middle reliever facing the heart of the order.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#418159) #
Not a crime, but Gausman had only retired three of the last nine hitters he'd faced. He'd given up five hits - including three doubles and a homer - and a walk. And the guy coming up had hits in both his at bats. Just not his night.
Hodgie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#418160) #
"Puhols was hitting .156/.277/.271 against RH pitching when the night was young."

Probably only because he hadn't faced Homerun Richards yet.

hypobole - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#418161) #
Also not a crime to bring in a better reliever than Richards in a crucial situation.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:10 PM EDT (#418162) #
Yeah, I'm never too keen on bringing in Richards with runners aboard because giving up home runs is his biggest problem. The relievers who do the best job of stranding other people's runners are Thornton, who isn't with us, and Phelps.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#418163) #
Richards has been awful this season. Not sure why he’s still being used in close games. Hopefully we are less than a week away from some significant bullpen reinforcements.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#418164) #
Schneider got ahead of himself dreaming of taking the lead and then using Cimber/Mayza-Garcia-Romano in the final 4 innings. With two men on and Phelps having thrown yesterday, the move there was Cimber even in the 5th. It just reinforces that the front office needs to acquire two relievers that move Richards down the totem pole.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#418165) #
Phelps would have been my guy there in the fifth. Richards has been much better since coming back off the IL, but the hits he does give up leave the yard.

Helsley's heat after all those slow curveballs - this will be interesting!
92-93 - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:06 PM EDT (#418166) #
The move is even more confusing now that he went to Phelps for the third time in four days anyway. Definitely should have used him in the 5th.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#418168) #
Passan says the Yankees are acquiring Benintendi in exchange for three prospects.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#418169) #
Glad to see them waste prospects on this guy. But its good to see the player movement start.

BREAKING: The Yankees are reportedly landing Andrew Benintendi. 🚨 https://t.co/RCxtaGi1t9 pic.twitter.com/kyVKBETixJ

— theScore (@theScore) July 28, 2022
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#418170) #
The Yankees probably aren’t giving up much for him (Cashman specializes in these volume prospect deals). Benintendi is a clear upgrade over Gallo.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:54 PM EDT (#418171) #

Heading to Royals, per source: Chandler Champlain, Beck Way, TJ Sikkema https://t.co/IgLzs86daX

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 28, 2022
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#418172) #
Cashman saving bullets for a SP and an RP.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:07 PM EDT (#418173) #
Rosenthal:

“Benintendi’s vaccination status was never discussed, sources tell me and
@Jaysonst. Yankees either not worried about one remaining series they have in Toronto, or received some indication Benintendi might get vaccine. TOR also was in mix for Benintendi, as were MIL and LAD.”
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#418174) #
The Yankees’ #13, #23 and #29 prospects, per BA.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:28 PM EDT (#418175) #
I like the trade for the Yankees. The Royals probably weren’t going to do much better than this for a good player rental. The Yankees won’t miss these pitching prospects (they never do). They’ll just acquire/develop some more of them.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:32 PM EDT (#418176) #
I feel the yanks just saved the jays from themselves.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 27 2022 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#418177) #
I’ll be miffed if the Yankees get Castillo and the Jays get a back-end SP, though.
Leaside Cowboy - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 05:32 AM EDT (#418178) #
Later today, Mark Shapiro will unveil the stadium renovation project.

Fat Albert becomes the oldest player to homer at the dome.
Did anyone else notice his biceps during the sit-down with Hazel Mae?

Tigers in town? Put those cats on a leash.

Take me down Kikuchi take me down
I know you think you're the king of the pitcher's mound...

ISLAND BOY - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 07:53 AM EDT (#418179) #
I don't know if it would make sense for the Jays but Tyler Mahle of the Reds is reportedly available with the caveat that the trading partner would have to take on Mike Moustakas, as well. Moustakas will still have a year left on his salary after this season at $16 million.

In the Well, That Didn't Long department : Druw Jones, the second overall pick in this years amateur draft, hurt his shoulder in his first batting practice with Arizona and will be out for the rest of the season.
85bluejay - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 08:51 AM EDT (#418181) #
The Mets missed out on George Springer when the Jays included a 6th year (6/150) and they must not be too upset because a year later they got Starling Marte much cheaper (4/78) and so far this year he's outproducing Springer and of course Springer's injury situation seems like a chronic condition.
85bluejay - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#418182) #
With the Yankees so far ahead and likely to get reinforcements , I hope the Jays focus on making the roster better for the playoffs.
hypobole - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 08:58 AM EDT (#418183) #
Didn't someone say Mahle is unvaxxed?
scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#418184) #
The Mets just needed a right bat.
They went hard after McCann which wasn't a smart move.

Maybe something can be done about Springer's elbow in the winter.

scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#418185) #
The Jays may like Banda's big arm, but I hate that he throws a four seamer right down the pipes.
hypobole - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#418186) #
On the subject of injured star players, Mike Trout has a rare spinal condition called "costovertebral dysfunction at T5," in which the muscle spasms around the [rib cage] inflammation to protect it.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#418188) #
The Mets missed out on George Springer when the Jays included a 6th year (6/150) and they must not be too upset because a year later they got Starling Marte much cheaper (4/78) and so far this year he's outproducing Springer and of course Springer's injury situation seems like a chronic condition.

Marte's a year older and is now a right-fielder.  I too think they did all right, but I'd wait.  It's funny how things are- Hyun Jin Ryu's contract looked very good after the first year and now, it looks like (to be generous) a wash at best. 
ISLAND BOY - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#418189) #
"Didn't someone say Mahle is unvaxxed?"

Jeez, I looked up an article on Mahle. You're right, hypobole. This vaxx status cuts down on the number of players available to the Jays for trade.
dalimon5 - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#418191) #
It was also posted up thread that Mahle is unvaccinated after we were suggesting him as an undervalued target.

I think Springer and Marte are worlds apart and most teams know that. Marte has been more valuable than Springer according to WAR. Who cares? Should we also get rid of Vlad and trade him for Brandon Nimmo because WAR says he’s more valuable???

Imagine if we treated real life like we do with baseball contracts. Someone buys a Rolls Royce but has bad value because someone else has a Cadillac for a lot less. If the car is an investment to save money, fine, but if it’s purpose is to have the best drive then acknowledge that.

Springer will help you get a Championship more than Marte, simple as that. He’s actually done that in the past and Marte hasn’t.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#418192) #
On the subject of injured star players, Mike Trout has a rare spinal condition called "costovertebral dysfunction at T5," in which the muscle spasms around the [rib cage] inflammation to protect it.

Missing John Neary right now.  It seems that the long-term issue is not the muscle spasm but the nature of the inflammatory process that led to it.  It can result from overuse (either from swinging or throwing). 

The Millville Meteor indeed had much of the speed and power of Mantle. It is sad to see him having the pain also. 
92-93 - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#418193) #
Speaking of Brandon Nimmo, he is an excellent fit for this roster and is an impending FA.
hypobole - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#418194) #
One final note on the OP:

Ooh teams are threat'ning
Our playoff lives today
If we don't get some pitching
Ooh yeah we're gonna fade away

WAR, bauxites
it's just some trades away, it's just some trades away

scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#418195) #
I wonder what that does for Othani. Maybe he decides the Angels are not going to win any time soon.
Is San Francisco the natural destination for him once he hits free agency?

ISLAND BOY - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:35 AM EDT (#418196) #
Or that other LA team that seems to be in on everybody?
scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#418197) #
Conforto got a QO. Nimmo should get one too.
Speaking of Conforto, would he be a good fit?
Might be looking for a Siemen type contract next year.

scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#418198) #
One team needs a franchise player more than the other.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#418199) #
Very good, hypo. I did not know that Merry Clayton miscarried after doing the fabulous vocal on the song (or that she got her name because her birthday is December 25). And then I went down a musical rabbit hole of her early career- from Ray Charles to Joe Cocker to Carole King.

Gimme Soto doesn't quite make it, eh?



greenfrog - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#418200) #
I see Max Meyer is going to have TJ surgery. I thought the Jays might have drafted him had Austin Martin not been available.
hypobole - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#418201) #
Mike, I never realized her name was Merry. I'm positive both my long-gone Let It Bleed and Joe Cocker albums had her as Mary.
Magpie - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#418202) #
We randomly phoned up this poor lady in the middle of the night, and she arrived in her curlers and proceeded to do that in one or two takes, which is pretty amazing. She came in and knocked off this rather odd lyric. It’s not the sort of lyric you give anyone–‘Rape, murder/It’s just a shot away’–but she really got into it, as you can hear on the record.

Mick, on how it happened.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:50 PM EDT (#418203) #
You're correct, hypo.  Reading the backs of albums was a lot of fun back in the day.  After seeing Ahmet Ertegun's name on the back of some of my favourite records back in the day, I wondered what the back-story was.  Same with Chris Blackwell.  And countless musicians. 

FYI- Clayton did a lot of the background vocals on Tapestry and her late husband Curtis Amy played the all the saxes on it.  Didn't know that until today either.
Magpie - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#418204) #
And as the trade deadline approaches, I suppose we all have to tell ourselves that you can't always get what you want. But if you try... sometimes... you might find... you get what you need?
Magpie - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#418205) #
Didn't know that until today either.

I didn't know that Little Feat's Sam Clayton was Merry Clayton's brother, and that both of them had worked with that whole circle around Delaney and Bonnie (which may be how the Stones got on to Merry, if indeed Bonnie Bramlett was the first woman they thought of for the part.)
scottt - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#418207) #
Always had the impression that the Stones were really tight with their money.
Magpie - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#418209) #
Mick certainly has a reputation for being careful with a dollar and a pound and a (an?) Euro. (London School of Economics!) The Stones were ripped off pretty comprehensively for the first decade or so of their career - the usual saga of bad contracts, bad management, industry sharks, and Allen Klein (who managed to abscond with the publishing to most of their 60s work.) And they never sold quite as many records as you might expect.
Magpie - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#418210) #
That's really been the formative experience of many, many young musicians. Your dreams have all come true, you're wildly successful - and you discover that somehow you're in debt up to your eyeballs, you can't pay your taxes, someone else controls your publishing, and you owe your soul to the company store. It can be hard getting over that. Paul McCartney hasn't quite gotten over that, and he might be one of the richest men in the United Kingdom.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#418212) #
you discover that somehow you're in debt up to your eyeballs, you can't pay your taxes, someone else controls your publishing, and you owe your soul to the company store

And that case of wine and whatever else you ordered to consume with  your very fine companions might have cost a little more than you expected. 
Four Seamer - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#418215) #
Mike Green, if Chris Blackwell's back story still interests you, he released an autobiography last month titled Islander that has been reasonably well-received.
Mike Green - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#418216) #
Thanks, Four Seamer. I will check it out.
Jonny German - Thursday, July 28 2022 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#418219) #
Missing John Neary right now.

That’s a name I hadn’t heard in so long it’d nearly left my brain… remind, was he on the Box roster way back when, or a regular contributor?
Mike Green - Friday, July 29 2022 @ 06:12 AM EDT (#418260) #
IIRC,he was on the Roster. But it was 20 years ago so I could easily be wrong.
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