@KeeganMatheson
David Phelps is out for the season after undergoing surgery on his right lat, #BlueJays tell us.

Ouch.  They badly need a reliever here.

They'll have to make some sort of move to add Manoah tomorrow.

David Phelps is out for the season

For the 5 seasons from 2017 to 2021, he will have logged a total of 120 innings.

Le Bastion des bas-fonds du pays en action

Oh, you kids and your hop-hip. Hip-hop? I feel old.

Of course I googled it, before you ask!

Say, Magpie, got anything on Jays pitchers making their career debuts at Yankee Stadium (any of them)?

got anything on Jays pitchers making their career debuts at Yankee Stadium

I can, in fact, answer this question!

Gustavo Chacin made his MLB debut on 20 September 2004 at the Stadium. He went 7 IP, allowed 4 H and 3 ER and got his first major league win. He's the only one before Manoah.

Gustavo Chacin made his MLB debut

If it goes well for Manoah, he may be in line for his own line of cologne. I am basing this on a sample of one.

David Wells, Luis Leal, and Matt Williams all made their major league debuts in starts against the Yankees, but those games were at the Old Ex.

Yes, I have an Excel file with every Jays start recorded, copied from bb-ref. Doesn't everyone?

I can also tell you that 49 different guys have made their major league debuts starting for the Jays, from Jerry Garvin in April 1977 to Nate Pearson last July. They've collectively gone 13-19, 5.07. The last one to win his debut was Chris Rowley - remember him, anyone? - against Pittsburgh in 2017.

The best start? Mauro Gozzo, 8 shutout innings of three-hit ball against Texas in August 1989 (Game Score 77). No one has pitched a shutout or a complete game in his debut, but Jesse Litsch came very close in 2007 (8.2 IP, 4 H, 1 R). Brandon Lyon's debut was also very impressive.

Best start by a pitcher who took the Loss was Dave Bush against Montreal in 2004. The worst start was Jeff Ware in 1995 (1.1 IP, 7 Hr, 7 R), barely edging out Sean Nolin's unhappy debut in 2013.

The Jays who won their debuts were Gozzo, Litsch, Lyon, Garvin, Butch Edge, Phil Huffman, Gustavo Chacin, Chris Rowley, Ricky Romero, Luis Leal, Matt Williams, Drew Hutchison, Giovanni Carrara. Notable losers include Dave Stieb, Jim Clancy, Chris Carpenter (a real stinker, that one), Mark Eichhorn, David Wells.

This damn Kyle Higashioka. He's a lifetime .184/.240/.404 hitter with 15 HR in 255 ABs. He's hit 5 of those HRs against Toronto, and he's hit .261/.292/.630 against Toronto.

Two missed calls on Semien. Second one was horrible. Fans deserve better. So do the players.

Came off the hockey game just to watch Guerrero hit. Such a pleasure to watch.other guy. Like watching a little kid having fun but clobbering everything.

Tonight's game is being brought to you by the good folks at TTO. Midway through the 4th, 19 of the 31 plate appearances have been a BB, K or HR.

#ThankVlad

#3avg, #1hr, #1rbi

#2obp, #1wrc+, #1war

#3 avg? That's not gonna win any triple crowns!

The night is still young.

Vlad's stats are glorious, which is indeed wonderful, but by far the most important stat is team W-L. By that measure, the Jays are thoroughly mediocre (23-23, 15th in baseball).

Good to see the team leading after 6 tonight. The next few innings are going to be anxious ones for Montoyo.

Strange year for the BP. They went from “lockdown” to “look out” overnight. Who knows what the next few innings will bring.

Jansen went from that brief moment of showing something (that 3 straight games with HRs) back into incompetence. Shame the guy just can't seem to hit very well. Awful game for him tonight.

"Vlad's stats are glorious, which is indeed wonderful, but by far the most important stat is team W-L."

Yeah.....imma gonna enjoy Vladdy. Hope for the best with the wins but I'm not gonna count on it.

Jays 5 umpiring 1

It’s fine to revel in Guerrero’s amazing performance. I guess I’m more old school. I find I get more satisfaction from team excellence. Maybe it’s all the years of seeing players like Delgado and Halladay turn in superlative performances on mediocre teams. It’s impressive, but a bit lacking in sustenance, in that those performances could have been so much more meaningful and memorable.

Let’s hope VGJ gets to play on a WS team…in Toronto, not in LA or New York or Boston or somewhere else.

How does one ground out sharply to the catcher?

I have confidence that this team has some more wins in them. That was a miserable couple of series, and that they all came against ALE opponents hurts, but for me what I want to see is what we saw - the Jays were in almost all of those games up until the end. In the long run, not every save is gonna be blown, not every extra innings game is going to be lost. A lot of whiplash on the WPA graphs but that just makes it feel worse than it is. The key is stabilizing the rotation, as the bullpen is clearly a bit overexposed. It feels like we've spent the entire season with a 3 man rotation followed by 2 unofficial bullpen days.

Gotta admit though, if the ALE continues to be a four horse race, I don't like our chances. Need Boston to fall back to Earth or a Tampa/New York collapse. I hate this division sometimes.

Also, the front office needs to get Guerrero extended (and not just for a year or two into his free agency years). He might be the best homegrown position player the Jays have ever had. A year or two ago (I can’t remember) I suggested $300m/10 years. That might be a bit light at this point. Maybe he would agree to $360m/12 years?

I don’t like dumping on Montoyo because I actually like the guy. But seriously…using Romano today with a 5 run lead and not a few days ago when they went to Bergen. Nonsensical. Some posters claimed Romano was not available for that game, but that not accurate as he had warmed up earlier in the game.

They may need Romano tomorrow and neither of their two reliable arms will be available. I know he wants to lock down a win after the week’s meltdown but this really makes little sense.

using Romano today with a 5 run lead

Did you miss the Tampa Bay series?

(I know you didn't!) But I figure when you've lost six in a row, and the bullpen has failed in five straight games, you don't mess around.

" I find I get more satisfaction from team excellence. "

If that's an option.

I googled it too. A song called the empire of the dark side sounded appropriate.

Remember Kawhi’s 2019 season? Now imagine he did it on some mediocre team in Toronto. Already forgotten.

I want the Jays (and Jays fans) to have what the Raptors had that year — the real thing. Do ownership and the front office have what it takes to make that happen? We’ll find out in the next few seasons.

I'm with Magpie and Charlie on this one. If players were Strat-O-Matic cards, Romano would have been the wrong move. But it was plain to see the past few games bullpen guys psyches were really shaken. A bad call, like the 3rd strike to Odor, a hit or walk, a hanger and we're right back into panic mode.

It was a 4 run lead when they sent Romano.
He wasn't sharp. Should not have walked Stinky and paid for it.

Chatwood was shaky too.
The one thing he seems really good at is throwing right on the glove side corner.

Charlie didn't use Bergen to close against Tampa.
He used Chatwood and Bergen was warming up to come in *after* Chatwood blew the save.
But Chatwood walked a right handed hitter (on 4 pitches I think) and Charlie brought Bergen in against the left handed hitter.
That wasn't planned. He just lost confidence in Chatwood and went for the platoon advantage.

Now, Charlie has said the problem in the last series was that the relievers became scared of the home runs to right field. Some of that might apply to Yankees Stadium too.

Anyway, the Yankees offense isn't great and they've been quite brittle.
Maybe they can last another 4 months and maybe they can't.

KC beat the Rays 2-1 tonight. Tampa tried to sneak another infuriating late-inning comeback — Arozarena walked with one out in the bottom of the ninth — but Mejia hit into a DP and that was that.

What the heck is going on with Springer’s quad? Still no timetable for a minor-league rehab stint.

Kawhi-style load management for Springer's quad.

First you have to have some load to manage!

Stripling and Matz having excellent outings against tough teams is a real silver lining. If this starts a trend, if Manoah holds his own and if Hatch is back soon, this team could be a lot of fun again. Tonnes of ifs, but you never know. This team can be very resilient.

The Jays could probably get a king's ransom for Grichuk.

This was an apt comment from another thread, re the Mets, in reference to their numerous injuries. The Mets somehow saw fit to place non-hitting but competent third baseman Brandon Drury in RF last night, and batted him not ninth, but third. CF was manned by the ghost of Cameron Maybin. And just to ensure their supply of toast does not run out any time soon, Billy McKinney has been added to the roster.

Other Jay washouts are currently sitting by their phone, awaiting their invitation to Queens. Anyone know how to reach Sil Campusano?

if Hatch is back soon

I keep hearing matter-of-fact references to Hatch as if he is a given to improve the back end of the rotation. The bar is extremely low, granted, and Hatch may well fit the bill, but what in his track record warrants this presumption of success?

If stripling keeps dealing and Manoah pans out, he’d be a welcome addition to the pen.

Hatch is being stretched. He went 3 innings in his first start.
He's not going to the back end of the pen.
One of Hatch or Pearson will send Stripling back to the pen.

Patrick Murphy could be a back end pen option.
Didn't fare well in his first rehab start with the D-Jays, 3 hits, 2 runs in 1.1 innings. 2 strikeouts.

This might not be a bad spot for Manoah.
The Yankees don't have any good left handed bats.
Manoah can pound right bats inside and not worry about the short porch.

If he goes 5 and there's more hit batters than walks, I'll be happy.

They need another multi inning man in the pen. One of Hatch or Stripling could play that role and alternate with Thornton. Stripling will get another shot at starting and they’ll see where it goes from there.

On Stripling. My wife and I each have a TV. She hates me muting Pat and Buck. I gave up watching the Thornton Stripling start for some time, but she didn't . Mentioned to her later how surprisingly well he pitched and she said they showed a change in mechanics during the game. Anyone else catch that?

I also avoided watching the early innings of that game.

The thing with Stripling is not that he loses control and walks too many.
The problem with Stripling is that his stuff is too flat and he gets shelled.
His strikeout rate is as good as it's ever been. 10.1/9 vs 8.7 in career.
Hit/9 are up, 10.7/9 vs 9.0 in career and the homeruns of course, 2.0/9 vs 2.3 in career.

So, I don't know about mechanical changes, but I think he needs to mix it more.
Don't just use 2 pitches. Use the whole strike zone.
Don't throw where you like to throw, throw where the hitter has holes.

I don't think an outing against the mediocre Clevelanders offense will tell us much anyway.
Unless it's another bad start...

One of the reporters on SN mentioned she had interviewed Stripling who talked about adjustments he made in delivery as a result of advice. Unfortunately my wife was also talking at the time and I missed the details but clearly he has changed something in his delivery. Hopefully it sticks.

Stripling also said they discovered he'd been tipping his pitches and they fixed that.

From what I remember from the broadcasts, a couple things they mentioned were how Stripling used a fuller wind-up to get more momentum and timing, which allowed Buck to wax poetic about Don Sutton and various Dodgers. And that he kept his hands lower during his delivery perhaps allowing him to hide the ball or deceive better.

On Stripling - in his last start he pitched out of a full wind-up rather than out of the stretch, his leg kick was slightly less pronounced and instead of bringing his hands up by his face in the delivery he kept the down and closer to his body. Buck said the delivery was more compact and allowed for better leg drive FWIW. It was a noticeable difference in delivery.

On Pearson, I like the idea of him filling Thornton’s current role for a while if he’s brought back up. More importantly, I’d just like to see him left in one place and one role for a few months. Between injuries and bouncing back and forth between the majors, it’s been ages since he’s had a stretch of regular work in a defined role. I think he could use that.

Coke to Steve02.

The forecast doesn't look good for tonight's game. Playing 14 innings tomorrow instead would benefit the Jays.

A few years ago Chase Utley noticed that his teammate Stripling was tipping his pitches with his feet.

Thanks guys. Posted a while back about Stripling's chase rate. He was 85th percentile in 2018 which is terrific, and down to a horrific 7th percentile by last season. His FB velocity was relatively unchanged, so something must have happened, and from what you are saying, seems to have been multiple somethings. Hope his last outing wasn't a one time thing. If he can stay fixed, he's a solid #5.

¡Hola! Manoah!

I like the idea of Pearson for 2-3 innings each game to start, then Stripling for the rest if possible. Not perfect, but if Manoah can fill the #4 slot it could work well. Thornton or Kay could be the backup on Manoah starts, the rest of the pen for the other 3 games and to close out the kid starts. Yeah, Stripling may not like being the 2nd guy each game, but he'd get more W's via that as he'd be in the game later and if the Jays take an early lead he'd get the W not Pearson (that matters still to some players I'm sure). Next year Pearson can be stretched out to 5-6 innings a start. Manoah I'd be shooting for 4-6 a start right now. If all is great (low pitch count, no runs, etc.) let him go 7 sometime.

On using Romano with a 5-run lead - I too am okay with it coming off a 6-game losing streak; but it's not as if this is the first time Montoyo has gone to one of his best relief options with a big lead.

It's been a habit this season, and it ends up limiting how much we can actually lean on guys like Chatwood and Romano in close games. He also likes to limit his best guys to a single inning, even in tie games, which ends up costing the Jays when they end up in extra innings.

That was 4 runs, not 5. It's like nobody actually watches those games.

To decide at the last minute which pitchers to use, they have to warm up 2 in the pen.
I'm certainly not suggesting Montoyo does that just so the stats box looks better.

Who else was available to close?
Romano threw 12 pitches on Monday.
Castro, 26 and was ineffective.
Payamps threw 13, but only 5 strikes.
Mayza threw 23 and gave up 3 runs.
Thorton threw 32 pitches in that one inning.
Dolis? He's the guy Charlie saved for today.
Bergen? He walked the first 3 guys the last time.
Cole? Last pitched on May 21 when he blew the save in the 6th inning.
I  wondered why he did not pitch again in the Rays series.
I'm inclined to think he's day to day with something.
Tice? Seriously?
And that's the whole bullpen folks.

Tons of guys in the pen right now. I have no problem with using your best available when there is a lead in the 9th even if it is a 10 run lead. You want wins, and you want guys to be healthy. Romano has 4 games now with 0 days rest - never 2 in a row (ie: no 3 games in 3 days). 3 times 1 day rest, 4 times each for 2 & 3 days rest, and a 4 days rest. 2 very long breaks (first game of course, and after his IL stint). His 4 0 day rest games were 4 IP 2 H 2 R 1 ER 2 BB 6 K's. Hard to complain about those results. He had 2 days with lower leverage - April 28th (8-2 loss on 3 days rest), and a 13-5 win (1 day rest). He has yet to face more than 5 batters in a game.

No question the goal was to get this win locked down. No better choice right now on the team than Romano for that.

I don't think that's the point.
With a 3 run lead you send your closer--if you have one.
Nobody complains. The Yanks will send Chapman.
With a 4 run lead, you send some guy, but you still warm up your closer so if one guy gets on base and it becomes a save situation you send your closer. That's what the Yankees would do.
We just skipped that intermediary because everyone was exhausted and wanted this losing streak to be over.
So the one thing about Montoyo is that he does not care at all about saves.

I see now that Glasnow is complaining that something funny was going on because he got hammered by the Jays.
Completely stupid.

Heh. Glasnow is a bit of a baby I guess - I got hit hard so the other guys must have been cheating. Guess they need to put his mommy on the bench for his next start. Pretty sad. If the Jays were cheating then why did they stop doing it for the other Ray pitchers? Guess the Jays just don't like him or something.

Lets hope the Jays pound him again next time just to see him go nutty paranoid from then on :)

“With a 4 run lead, you send some guy, but you still warm up your closer so if one guy gets on base and it becomes a save situation you send your closer.”

BTW It was a 5 run lead when Romano came in. Check the box score. Romano started the 9th and gave up a run that inning on a fielding error.

I wasn’t going to argue the point about Romano as it’s a judgment call and different managers would take different approaches. But since others have chipped in..I subscribe to the above approach if it’s a 5 run lead as even if the first guy loads the bases the tying run still hasn’t come to the plate. I think it’s more iffy with a 4 run lead as with the 3 batter minimum, the closer might be stuck coming in to face the potential tying run at the plate.

What was particularly annoying to me was the lower part of the Yankee order was coming up and they’ve been struggling, so yeah go with a B option and have Romano ready.

Sure Montoyo went big given the losing streak but to me that’s playing scared. We want to win the series not one game….and when he’s only got two “bullets” in the bullpen in IMHO I wouldn’t use them both with a 5 run lead when you could really need them the next day.

Anyway, hopefully it becomes a non issue when Manoah holds them scoreless and the boys take a 10 nothing lead.

Doubleheader tomorrow it is.
Now Charlie looks like a genius for using the best reliever available.

It was a 4 run lead when Romano started warming up and if you know anything about him, he'd been walking around with a glove and a ball since the 5th inning.

That works well for the Jays since they have 2 off days coming up and the pen hasn't been great.
Not so well for the Yankees who have 0 off days this week.
They can bring up a AAA pitcher if Kluber isn't available and nobody will notice since they're in Detroit, but then they have a 4 game series against the Rays and I don't know if they'll use German on short rest.

"Heh. Glasnow is a bit of a baby I guess - I got hit hard so the other guys must have been cheating. Guess they need to put his mommy on the bench for his next start. Pretty sad. If the Jays were cheating then why did they stop doing it for the other Ray pitchers? Guess the Jays just don't like him or something."

Not sure if this is fair. If Glasnow thought he had the same sort of stuff he normally gets guys out with, but wasn't, it's reasonable (for him) to look for the reason why. If there's nothing mechanical or whatever then why not assume something un-baseball-related is happening?

Because that's dumb.

Glasnow started another game in Tampa against the Jays on April 23.
That was his first loss of the year, 5 earned runs over 6 innings.

Why would there be something un-baseball-related whenever he faces the Jays that affects him and him only?

Clearly the Jays have his number and they're not going to tell him anything about it.

So as expected, today's game cancelled and an Ernie Banks special starts at 4 tomorrow. I imagine the Jays knew today's forecast. Might that have also played a part in the Romano decision Tuesday?

If the Jays had swept the Rays and beat the crap out of all their pitchers then Glasnow would have a case, but when the Jays were swept and had a game where they scored just 1 run in it then no way they were cheating with just him. Maybe he should be worried they picked up something on him (a twitch, an indicator of some kind) to be able to tell what was coming.

Whatever. Sucks to not have the game tonight as I was really looking forward to it.

Jeremy Beasley is the answer. But Trebek wants to know the question.

a) Who do the Jays add as the 27th man for the double header?

b) Who do the Jays cut from the 40-man to make room for Manoah?

I think the 27th man is simply the guy they'll cut from the active roster to make room for Manoah.
That solves a lot of problems and reduces the traveling.
Ideally they would have added a hitter, there isn't anyone on the 40 list worthy of a pinch hit AB even if they could clear all the Covid-19 protocols.

Tice?

Why would there be something un-baseball-related whenever he faces the Jays that affects him and him only?

Well, Scotttt, if you want to get away with cheating you have to make your successes seem random. Same reason the allies only acted on certain messages they decoded. It makes perfect sense, especially at a time when the league can't afford another cheating scandal.

The Jays are one of the best offense is baseball.
The Rays are just a bunch of role players playing the odds and pulling through almost miraculously.
If there is cheating going on, it's obviously on the other side.
Maybe you have something there. The crowd in Dunedin was almost entirely made out of Rays fans.

I did notice something wrong with one of the broadcast.
Everything is on a slip second time delay to prevent sign stealing, but in the late innings, the ambient sounds was coming in without delay. You could hear the crowd reacting to the home runs as the pitcher was delivering.
Anyone else noticed that?

I think the 27th man is simply the guy they'll cut from the active roster to make room for Manoah.

Huh? The 27th man has to be someone from the 40-man roster. By definition it can't be the guy they cut to make room for Manoah.

I figure it'll be a pitcher currently on the 40 man. Beasley (last pitched on the 25th 1 IP), Pearson (last pitched on the 21st), Luciano (last pitched on the 23rd), Zeuch (last pitched on the 23rd), Allgeyer (last pitched on the 22nd) are all possibilities - well rested and on the 40 man and all have been called up at some point in the past. Someone goes to the 60 day to make room - Milone, Borucki, Kay, Springer (I hope not) are all possibilities.

Boy this injury filled year is a challenge for the 40 man isn't it? 39 players have been used by the Jays in the majors so far. Active (26); 10 day IL (5) Kay, Milone, Borucki, Springer, Biggio; up then demoted (6) Zeuch, Pearson, Beasley, Allgeyer (DNP), Palacios (7 day IL), Adams (DNP), never up this year (3) Luciano, Moreno, Lopez; 60 day IL (4) Merryweather, Phelps (out for season), Kirk, and Yates (out for season); released (1) Roark.

Quite the list eh? My bets are Milone to 60 day (can live without him) unless someone else is in worse shape, and calling up Zeuch or Allgeyer as a long guy for tonight probably Zeuch. If they went for a hitter it'd be Adams I figure.

They have to cut someone from both the 26 and 40 roster for Manoah.
Presumably, the guy who gets kicked out of the 40 isn't currently on the 26.

So the guy who gets kicked out of the 26 hangs around for an extra game. No?

Who to demote? Mazya I'd be tempted with at this point. He allowed runs in 5 of his last 7 games. From May 13th on he has been used a lot and sucked royally (6 games 4 IP 9 H 10 R/ER 3 BB 6 SO) and he has 2 options left. I know I don't trust him in a close game right now. Maybe he needs more innings, more stretching out, something, but he right now just isn't doing the job or even coming close to it.

I'm not sure if Milone is a 60IL candidate rather than a release candidate.
They can release him and resign him to a minor contract or he can start looking for a contract elsewhere as soon as eligible. All his money should be guaranteed anyway.

Article from July 26th, 2010:

"Beginning in 1987, at least one team somewhere in MLB has gone the entire year without a doubleheader. Toronto leads all baseball with nine doubleheader-less seasons. They’ve played 22 doubleheaders in their last 23 full seasons."

What a beautiful day for a ballgame -- let's play two!

If memory serves, the Blue Jays have played approximately 110 doubleheaders since 1977.

This exact situation happened last year on August 20th. Anthony Alford was on the roster for Game 1 of a doubleheader against the Phillies and was DFA'ed before Game 2 to make room for starter Trent Thornton. I have no idea whether they made him leave or allowed him to stay around for the nightcap.

Technically, they could call up Beasley today as the 27th man for Game 1 and then DFA him and add Manoah to the 40-man roster for Game 2, but they would still need to drop someone else from the 26-man roster because you cannot have two different "27th men" for the same doubleheader. So that doesn't make sense.

Here's what I would plan to do: Move Josh Palacios to the 60-day IL (retroactive to May 10th). Add Manoah to the 40-man roster and call him up as the 27th man today. After the doubleheader, option Ty Tice to AAA and keep Manoah on the active roster.

It is a shame and a bit of a concern that we have a 3-man bench and no one else on the 40-man roster that can help today. But I'm not sure they would have added another hitter anyway even if there was someone.

I thought Manoah was starting Game 1 and the plan was:
1) Add Manoah to roster (as 27th man) and remove someone from 40 man; and
2) For game 2 demote someone who isn't Manoah to get the 40 man back down to 26.

Have they moved Manoah to game 2?

Also, the Allegyer move still seems so odd, even acknowledging they wanted an arm to pitch several innings if the starter that day had been knocked out early.

I don't think I'm the first or second person to make this comparison, but it seems so similar to the strange decision to call up Dyson in 2012. Although he at pitched a whole two-thirds of an inning. All of that being said, given what's now known about Dyson's character, I don't bemoan the actual loss.

A follow-up note on Palacios. He's currently earning a minor league salary (minimum is ~$300/day or $47k/yr for someone on 40-man roster, though could be higher), but would earn a full MLB salary if placed on the 60 day IL (~$3100/day or $570k/yr). I'm guessing it would cost $150k+ in extra salary to place him on the 60 day IL. So that's likely a factor in the decision.

I wish you could edit, but in #2 above, where I wrote "40 man" I meant "active roster."

Do teams ever place minor leaguers on the 60 day?

Not very often, and usually only out of necessity. Patrick Murphy is on it now. Pompey was on it in 2019. Rhiner Cruz in 2018.

Don't usually check power rankings, but did today at ESPN. AL East is 3, 5, 6, 10.

Milone and Phelps could be moved to the 60 day IL to clear spots. Probably another set of larger moves coming in the next weeks. Jays have that glut of catchers on the 60 man, plus Gaterol doing very well at AAA. Looks like Hatch should be coming back soon. Murphy, Pearson and Kay are all getting regular work, so one or more of them could be available to the Jays. Team could get better without a major trade, but ... there are options for trades. Atlanta might like to get Kirk.

Phelps was moved to the 60IL way back on May 15 to make room for Allgeyer.

Murphy's rehab started officially on the 23rd and Hatch's on the 20th.

Phelps is already on the 60-day. And Murphy technically isn't in the minors. Was injured prior to being optioned.

There are lots of places doing power rankings and they're mostly all biased.

The Yankees have split a 2 game series with the Braves. Other than that they are 11-1 in games outside the division.
They have a losing record against the Jays and the Rays. Even the Orioles have won 4 games against them.
They haven't played a single game against Boston yet.
How do you rank that team objectively?

I gather that virtually all contracts are insured, though not always in full. Do those insurance policies primarily exist for catastrophic cases? Such as, if a player misses an entire season, or upon a rare tragedy if a player died? (The question comes to mind with regard to Santiago Espinal's status and the cost-savings consideration.)

Murphy isn't in the minor because he's on the 60IL.
I think they could have optioned him if they wanted but only on the first day as there is no active roster during the spring.
It does seem like they could send Palacios to the 60IL.
It would seems that it's likely Davis will be out next year, because he'll be out of options.
Of course, Martin could end up in CF, but it's pretty early to think about that.
Martin and Groshans needs lots of ABs.

That's a google question.

I got this https://www.quora.com/How-much-do-MLB-teams-pay-to-insure-their-players

I don't think its a stretch to say that 7 of the top 9 or maybe 10 teams in baseball are in two divisions. And that the 4 best teams in baseball are in those two divisions. Its going to be a tough year for the Giants and Jays from that perspective.

I did a google as well
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2016/09/09/worried-about-your-aces-100-million-arm-there-is-insurance-for-that/

Not sure what Espinal has to do with MLB teams insuring contracts, but FWIW Beeston said on Primetime a few years ago that the Jays do not do so.

The Jays are one of the best offense is baseball.

I'm not so sure about that - I think there's a sizeable Park Effect at play there. They've scored 5.9 per game in Dunedin and 4.3 per game on the road. (This applies to the defense as well - they've allowed 5.2 in Dundedin, 3.7 on the road.)

I think it's an above average offense, but not elite. Especially during this patch when they've had to play three non-hitters (Espinal, Davis, Jansen) every day.

Manoah called up.

Bergen to the IL.

Milone to the 60 day IL.

I had mentioned in another thread that the Dunedin park effect is about the same as Coors, so enough to distort the truth.

And Anthony Kay has been recalled and placed on the IL with a blister problem.

Magpie - I agree with that. On days where those three are replaced with Springer, Kirk and Biggio then its a different day at the park for the opposing pitchers.

Incidentally, last week I saw a beautiful Blue Jay by the West Don River. There is also a vibrant Cardinal nearby. (Well downriver, three years ago, I saw a single Blue Jay fight off about fifteen black birds all at once.)

Kay will still report to Buffalo but he will be on a rehab assignment. He should start on Sunday.

This year, the Jays will have the 3rd smallest bonus pool behind only the Astros and the Dodgers.

Jays: 5.775M
Yankees: 6.943M
Rays: 7.955M
Red Sox: 11.359M
Orioles: 11.829M

Bergen is out now too? That leaves only Mayza as a lefty and he has absolutely stunk up the joint lately. The only relievers who started the season with the team and haven't been on the IR are Mayza and Trent Thornton, not exactly the two guys we would pick to remain healthy. Pretty rough.

In misery loves company news, Cory Kluber is expected to miss at least 2 months with a right shoulder issue and Luke Voit is back on the IR with an oblique issue. Also it sounds like Stanton won't be activated until Friday.

Incredible play a few minutes ago in Pittsburgh. Baez batting for the Cubs with Contreras on second. Two out, Cubs up 1-0. Baez hits a grounder to third. The throw pulls the first baseman off the bag, but he's moving into the basepath and can easily meet Baez and tag him out.

Except Baez stops. He turns around and starts running back towards home. And the first baseman chases him. Meanwhile Contreras breaks for home. The first baseman notices, throws to the catcher - but too late! The run scores. Baez makes the safe sign, turns out and lights out for first. And no one is covering. The catcher tries to hit the second baseman desperately scurrying over. The throw goes astray and Baez takes second. And promptly scores on the Happ single.

Could this be why the Pirates are 18-29?

You think Joey Wendle will finish the year with a .915 OPS?
Or that Mike Zunino is able to sustain a .869 OPS?

Jays are 10-11 in Dunedin and 14-12 on the road.

I just watched a clip of that Pirates play. Its waaaaay worse than Magpie described. From the fact that there were two outs (so the 1B need only turn and touch the base after Baez turned around), to the first baseman literally strolling down the line to tag Baez, to the 2nd baseman actually missing the throw from the OF to try and get Baez at 2nd. I'm struggling to remember a worse defensive play that I've seen.

The Jays are one of the best offense is baseball.

Cough *Astros* Cough

Most of that awfulness was on the firstbaseman (Will Craig, if you're wondering), and I was thinking - didn't anyone tell him what to do? But it occurs to me there were probably just three or four guys yelling "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!"

The play being discussed. There are two outs. The lunkhead playing 1B simply has to step on the base to end the inning. He has no competition because the baserunner is running in the opposite direction.

Will Craig, if you're wondering

Will Craig? No, he won't.

It's just a failed fielder's choice (no kidding!) and the run scores. Baez takes on the catcher's throwing error, and the run he eventually scores is unearned.

Prates lose. By two.

I don't know if Manoah can go six innings today but I'm sure his mom can't.

First inning, this is exactly what I'd like to see from Pearson.

Scoreless first inning in the majors for Manoah. Great job.

Manoah looked jittery to DJM. 4 pitch walk. Got a gift strike vs Odor, who K'd on 2 more OOZ pitches. Looked plenty solid K'ing Judge and retiring Torres.

So refreshing to see a kid come up and throw strikes.
Deep counts are the only “issue” right now

Barring something unforeseen, Marcus Semien is going to get paid this offseason.

I've been all over the Semien signing. Loved it when it happened and I'm happy to see the success.

Looking back at the Jan. 26 thread, it looks as though most Bauxites were very happy with the Semien acquisition.

I assume he's looking good?

Somebody explain these GameDay classifications actually mean in real life:

FB 94 95 96 96 96 97 97 96 95 95 96 96 96 96 95 94 95 95
SK 94 95 ​95 94 94 95 95 94 95
CH 90 89 90 90 89 89 89 91
SL 83 81 83 86 83 84 81 84 81 82 84


Is that actually a slider?

He’s looked like the top pitcher in his draft class to me.

His change up has surprised me with how good it has looked.

Big inning here for Manoah. It’s sometimes said that the first and the fifth innings are the toughest for a SP to get through.

Yeah, changeup looks better than advertised, slider looks maybe worse than advertised? Nothing looks bad though, there's nothing to complain about here.

Yeah I agree, I was thinking he had more of a wipeout slider. His aggressiveness has been awesome.

Is that actually a slider?

It moves like one (oops, he hung that last one) - he doesn't throw it quite as hard as I'd expect. And normally you would want to see a bit more separation in velocity between the fastball and the change. But if you're commanding both pitches - which he's been doing - you can certainly get away with this.

He’s here for good, the command is excellant.

I agree on the changeup - that's been a pleasant surprise, and can move. The slider command has been inconsistent, but the ones he gets to the glove side have been good, 2-plane breakers that remind me a bit of Kluber. How his fastball has played up past its velocity has also been a bit of a surprise, as well.

Basically, while there's still some things to work on, there's a whole lot to love.

I was surprised how much movement he was getting on his pitch. Happy for the kid. Excellent first outing.

Kudos to management too for taking a risk despite the limited minor league experience. If you’re ready, you’re ready.

The fastball command was very, very impressive. He wasn't just throwing strikes, he was throwing strikes on the corners.

Granted, today's ump was The Pitcher's Friend. But still....

Go tell it on the mountain. The kid is good.

Relief pitchers? Toronto relief pitchers?

Hold me.

christ montoyo let the kid finish.

Game Score of 73, second best all-time for a Blue Jay making his MLB debut (Gozzo in 1989 was 77.)

I've seen too many false starts to say he's here for good, but I think today earned him at least two to three more starts, even if they are all disasters.

I've seen too many false starts

I hear ya. I was in the house for Brandon Lyon's MLB debut and I thought I was watching the next Greg Maddux. (Brandon had a nice career, but...)

Yup it’s early to get too excited. Still…if the kid keeps dealing and Stripling's changes hold this could be a very solid rotation which would also ease the pressure on the BP. And have Pearson ready in a while, hopefully, to step in if and where needed.

Wilmer interviewed Stripling on the changes he made. Starts at minute 17 in the link below. This was a guy that consistently had an ERA under 4 for years and isn’t that old. So fingers crossed.

https://www.thestar.com/podcasts/deepleftfield/2021/05/27/conversations-with-ross-stripling-dan-shulman-on-alek-manoah-and-chris-leroux-and-scott-richmond-of-team-canada.html

That was pretty impressive from Manoah, although I'd like to see what he does against a good hitting team. He definitely has poise and a certain mound presence.

Manoah looked excellent. Excited to see how he does for the rest of the season. If only Pearson can right himself now.

Nice at bats by Jansen and Semien to keep that inning going long enough for Bo to cash them in.

Manoah making Judge look foolish was the most fun sight I've seen from a rookie pitcher since Mark Eichhorn did that to the heart of the Red Sox in 1986 (Jim Rice did swings like that vs Eich). Making the other teams best hitter look like he has no idea is always a good thing.

So Manoah has 4 starts this season, all 6 innings, just 1 run over the 4 combined (AAA/majors). I was worried when he walked the first batter but just 1 more walk vs 7 K's. In his 3 minor league starts the game scores were 80-73-69 and now a 73 in the majors. Sweet.

Third time tonight the leadoff man has reached and then instantly erased on a DP. Sigh.

Damned Rivera! No, wait...

Luis Rivera >>>Yankees 3rd base coach

I mean, Sanchez was out by so much I couldn't find anything glib to say about him - the thing was funny in and of itself.

Manoah was fighting it with the nerves with the first couple of hitters but recovered nicely.
He didn't have his good slider today, but the change up was much better than advertised.
The 2-seamer--It's hard to call it a sinker since the movement is not downward at all--has tons of movement.
But the impressive part for me was that he could paint with the four seamer.

I wouldn't have pitched to Judge with the lead. No reason to.
With Davis on first, Jansen should have been working the count. Maybe fake a bunt.
Instead he hits into a double play on the first pitch against a pitcher who was running out of bullets.
Terrible.
Runner on second, one out. Not the best time to call for sliders in the dirt.
One passed ball/wild pitch and a flyball scores a run.

Oh, well. It's a series win. One the road. Against a rival.
I'll take that.

Robbie Ray's error in the 5th was the first by a Jays pitcher this year. Only the Nats and Rangers now without one. White Sox pitchers have committed 7.

That might have been scored a hit too, frankly.
How many of the other pitcher errors are not throwing errors?

He brought his glove to the ball without realizing that his foot was in front of his glove.
The right play would have been to jump out of the way, but it's pretty hard to fight your reflexes there.

"Runner on second, one out. Not the best time to call for sliders in the dirt."

Reminds me I meant to post this. Despite Buck's statements to the contrary, seems pitchers don't much stop bouncing pitches, even in close games.


https://blogs.fangraphs.com/forget-some-of-what-you-know-about-runners-on-third/

How many of the other pitcher errors are not throwing errors?

28

Last 7 days.
Hernandez  OPS 1.027
Gurriel 1.000
Grichuk .917
Tellez  .917

I guess we can wait on Springer a bit longer.

3B:
Espinal .343
Panik .200

C:
Jansen .322
McGuire: .000

In AAA, for the year:
Urena .807
Valera .915
Smith .843
Adams .795

In AA,
Martin .709
Lopez .905
Groshans .728
Moreno 1.096

Need Panik to start hitting quickly.

I think Manoah (& McGuire) took advantage of and benefited from a generous strike zone yesterday. I counted seven borderline pitches that all went Manoah's way but might be balls with different umpires.

1st Inning: Strike 1 to Odor
2nd: Strike 3 to Ford
3rd: Strike 1 to DJ
4th: Strike 1 to Torres + Strike 2 to Ford.
5th: Strike 2 to Higashioka
6th: Strike 1 to DJ

I think the umpire (Barber) was consistent with both teams, though we'll see what Umpire Scorecards says later today. However, it's something to watch in future starts because he really didn't get squeezed at all yesterday.

Nothing approaching that 3rd strike on Grichuk.
His 2-seamer moved a lot. Most of those pitches started over the middle of the plate.

The French coverage on CBC was amazing.
They said that Manoah was pitching for the Detroit Blue jays, got seven outs and even touched 97 km/hr.

I had a quick look at the statcast data, Manoah showed great spin on his fastball but interestingly nothing impressive on his slider. Contrary his fastball showed pretty average break, but his slider showed great horinzontal movement. The hardest hit ball against him was 100.7 mph, which is very impressive. There was very little quality contact against him.

I had a quick look at the statcast data, Manoah showed great spin on his fastball but interestingly nothing impressive on his slider. Contrary his fastball showed pretty average break, but his slider showed great horinzontal movement. The hardest hit ball against him was 100.7 mph, which is very impressive. There was very little quality contact against him.

Not sure about statcast, but Manoah's 2-seamer had a screwball look at times, veering glove side then ending up outside of the strike zone on the other side.