Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Manoah Gives Up A Run, Hershiser's Record Is Safe

Manoah Gives Up A Run, Hershiser's Record Is Safe

The Blue Jays affiliates won three of four Wednesday. #WeAreBlueJays

Buffalo 4 Worcester 1

The big story in this one was Juan Graterol as his two-run home run in the second inning gave the Herd a lead it would never relinquish. El Grate needs to be called up now by the Blue Jays as he is hitting .480 and has a hit in all seven games this season. He had two hits and a walk. RBI singles by Christian Colon and Riley Adams provided the insurance runs.

Like those old Justin Trudeau ads, Alek Manoah is just not ready and clearly needs to stay in the minors for the rest of the year. Why? He failed to deliver six shutout innings because he gave up a home run to Chris Hermann who is no Juan Graterol by the way. Hermann is only hitting .235, proving Manoah is not quite ready yet for prime time. Despite striking out 10, walking one and giving up four hits over six innings. that Hermann homer was just too much. You didn't see Curtis Taylor, Kirby Snead and Hobie Harris give up any home runs, did you? They proved they're ready for the bigs with a shutout inning apiece. Chris Hermann, please!!

Portland 3 New Hampshire 2

Look! Kyle Johnston did not pull a Manoah and give up a run. He pitched 5-1/3 shutout innings! I'm not even going to point out he needed Brody Rodning to strand two runners for him because he is Kyle Freakin' Johnson and facts are for fools! Johnston totally dominated by striking out three guys, only giving up four hits and walking two. Unfortunately, Rodning would give up two runs in the seventh to take the loss. Andrew McInvale pitched the final 2-2/3 innings, giving up a run but striking out four.

Kevin Vicuña had the only two-hit game for New Hampshire and drove in the first run of the game. Chris Bec singled home an L.J. Talley double in the ninth. Chavez Young and Otto Lopez had the other base raps.

Vancouver 6 Hillsboro 1

The Hillsboro Hops may want to serve an eviction notice to the Vancouver Canadians to leave Ron Tonkin Field immediately. The C's are the roommate the Hops do not want right now as they handed the Barley Boys their second straight loss in as many nights. Tanner Kirwer launched the second pitch of the game for a home run. Kirwer would score on a Philip Clarke double in the fifth before Cameron Eden went deep to score Clarke. He also stole his 12th base of the year. D.J. Neal singled home the final run in the sixth and had the only two-hit night for Vancouver.

Troy Miller walked five in five innings but limited Hillsboro to a run on two hits while whiffing four. Lazardo Estrada and Justin Maese finished up with two scoreless frames apiece. Estrada struck out two and Maese rung up three.

Dunedin 5 Clearwater 1

Jol Concepion drained the swamp against Clearwater with six shutout innings, retiring 11 of 12 at one point. The Threshers featured "Sweet Swingin" Matt Joyce on rehab assignment who doubled off Concepcion before striking out. According to his bio page, Joyce's nickname is "Sweet Swingin'". I'm not making this up. Anyways, Concepcion scattered three hits and a walk and struck out three for the win. He also produced 10 groundouts and one flyout. Thomas Ruwe put up a zero in the seventh. Jiorgeny Casmiri coughed up the only run on one hit and three walks. Gabriel Ponce stranded the bases load and recorded the final four outs for the save, getting one strikeout.

P.K. Morris doubled home Dunedin's first run and Addison Barger tripled home the second. Morris and Leonardo Jimenez had the two-hit nights for Dunedin. Ryan Sloniger, Jose Rivas and Jhon Solarte brought in the other runs.

*** 3 Stars!!! ***

3. Tanner Kirwer, Vancouver

2. Jol Concepion, Dunedin

1. Alek Manoah, Buffalo

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:42 AM EDT.

Manoah Gives Up A Run, Hershiser's Record Is Safe | 26 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

bpoz - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#398370) #

Manoah may stay down for service time issues.

I keep wondering about the service time for Pearson and Kirk. Pearson was both injured last year and this year and then had poor performance this year resulting in a demotion. Kirk is out due to injury. How is service time affected by these conditions?

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#398372) #

Woah! #2JB throwing some nasty high snark.
Agree on Graterol. He clearly has nothing left to prove in AAA.

Jays hitting prospects have been underwhelming as a whole, other than Lopez and Moreno. Besides the injuries, results have ranged from meh to struggling. Still early

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#398373) #

bpoz, the cutoff for the extra year of service time has already passed for 2021.

As far as Super 2, don't think the philosophy has changed since AA's time. Super 2 is only a big deal if the prospect does really well in the majors, in which case the Jays will be more than happy to pay.

bpoz - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 10:30 AM EDT (#398375) #

Thanks hypobole. Very fast. Buffalo started May 4, so 16 days have past.

Kirk could miss 60+ days this year due to injury. I suspect that will count as ML time.

Teoscar is a good example for when he is eligible for arb. 2016 & 17 were partial years in the ML. 2018,19 and 20 were full seasons. I am mixing arb and super 2 status. Teoscar was not good enough for super 2 I realize that. For arb I think 2021 is his 1st year due to the total of his ML time.

I may be wrong on all of this.

bpoz - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#398377) #

Many positive surprises.

Manoah and Moreno are WOW!!

Allgeyer, Ohashi and a few others are doing well. Mainly in Vancouver. Clarke, Gold, Kloff and Eden. I am very encouraged by Maese and Danner.

92-93 - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#398378) #

Manoah does have nice hair though.

scottt - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 12:09 PM EDT (#398380) #

Players on the 10 dayIL and 60 day IL are accruing service time. Players on the 7-day IL are not.
The only funky thing is about injuries that occur during spring training.
It's mostly straightforward.

John Northey - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#398389) #

Pearson being in the minors is helping pause his clock, but Kirk is on the ML IL so his clock is ticking. Pearson had 169 days service, barely under 1 year. Time down there is basically shifting him closer to missing super-2 status but he'd probably have to be down until July for that to happen. Unlikely the Jays care on that front right now. Manoah they are probably just keeping down now for development - see if he can get deeper into games, how he handles a bad game. His worst game in the minors was 2019 August 20th - 4 IP 5 H 3 R/ER 1 BB 5 SO - ie: a good one for Stripling - he followed that with a 4 IP game 3 H 0 R 1 BB 8 SO. In 2019 his starts were in innings pitched: 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4. In 2021 6/6/6 with 81/76/94 pitches.

Hard to imagine he will be down much longer. A total of 3 times he has given up runs in his pro career - 2 runs the game before he gave up 3 (3 IP 3 H 2 R/ER 0 BB 2 SO). At age 21 between the NCAA and minors he threw 125 1/3 innings so odds are the Jays worked him in summer camp last year to the equivalent of 130+ I'd hope so he'd be ready for 150+ this year. 6 innings per start for 25 stars would be 150 so he should be fine I'd think from arm endurance. Yeah, no more than 1 or 2 more starts unless he gets blown out then he gets his chance.

scottt - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#398393) #

It's unlikely this leads to more service time for Person.
I'm not sure Kirk will have an extended career past 7 years either.
Things could become interesting when Moreno becomes ready in a couple of years.

I heard the target for Manoah is 130 innings this year. From Ben Wagner, maybe?

John Northey - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#398398) #

Kirk is a challenge for the Jays - great bat potential but weak on defense and not tall enough to be decent at 1B especially with Vlad there. I expect him to be traded somewhere as part of a package to get a quality starter or everyday third-baseman (higher end) mid-season. Pearson has had so many injuries already I'd be worried about him getting 7+ years so agreed service time is a non-issue there. More just wanting to point out he isn't accumulating any. 130 innings makes sense as a target for Manoah, but I figure with the 130 he did 2 years ago 160 is possible (I think the old rule of thumb was 30 more than your previous peak). Should be interesting to see how the Jays handle him. But if he can give 5-6 innings a start like he has in the minors (0-3 runs) I'd be very happy as would the Jays I suspect.

John Northey - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#398399) #

Hmm.... what would it take to get Kris Bryant I wonder? He is a free agent post 2021, but has been worth 2.2 fWAR already (308/401/615 line with decent defense). Kyle Seager in Seattle is also a free agent post 2021 (115 wRC+, strong defense too). Given the excess at catcher maybe trading Kirk as part of a package to get a rental is a good idea. Make Biggio a super-utility guy (time at 3B/2B/RF/DH/1B but regular at none) while Tellez gets traded too. Seattle's catchers have OPS+ of 41 and 50 while 1B is 28. Might be a match.

Gerry - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#398401) #

Austin Martin is back in the lineup tonight, playing shortstop. No Groshans in the lineup.

scottt - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#398402) #

There is not enough work for a super utility guy once Springer is back and Grichuk is the 4th outfielder.
Vlad, Semien and Bichette won't miss too many games.

Do they need another starter or will Manoah and Pearson take the 2 spots needed and leave Hatch on the bubble?

92-93 - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#398403) #

Seager is actually a better fit for the Jays than Bryant (better glove, bats left, less name value), but he isn't a pure impending FA - his team option for '22 becomes guaranteed if he's traded. That might actually make him more attractive to the Jays, especially if it means the acquisition cost is significantly lower than a Bryant/frontline SP.

John Northey - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#398404) #

Good catch 92-93. He does make more sense doesn't he? Seattle is going nowhere this year probably, sub 500 5 games out, has obvious holes in the offense which fit nicely with the Jays. Biggio (2B for them is injured Dylan Moore 80 OPS+ but 138 last year, lifetime 99), Kirk, Tellez covers their 3 offensive black holes - LF is also bad but Biggio could go there if needed or 3B. But checking Cot's it says his option for 2022 becomes a player option if traded which the Jays avoid like the plague (for good reason). Still, looks like a really good fit for both clubs. I'd hate to lose Kirk, Biggio, or Tellez but right now all are excess - ie: nice to have but not critical for this team. They all would have more value to someone else.

92-93 - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#398405) #

Right, a player option. Which might drive his trade value down even further, assuming his bat doesn't get abnormally hot this summer. If the Jays were willing to do Semien for 1/18, they might not be scared of Seager in '22 at a similar price, bridging the gap until Groshans and/or Martin arrive.

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#398406) #

Maximo starting for NH. Hatch and Nick Frasso making season debuts for Buffalo and Dunedin tonight. Stay healthy!

greenfrog - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#398410) #

Because I'm in a somewhat mischievous (masochistic?) mood, I will note that Keith Law has been higher than most on Manoah since the 2019 draft. For example, he was #76 on Law's top 100 prospects list in early 2020.

Let the outrage begin...

85bluejay - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 05:07 PM EDT (#398411) #

Jays fans are only outraged when Law rates Jays prospects lower than others, when he likes them better then it's all good.

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#398412) #

This is Law right after the draft:

The Blue Jays benefited from the three teams in front of them going with position players by landing Alek Manoah (1), who I had as the best pitcher in the entire draft class. He's a four-pitch right-hander who attacks hitters in the zone and throws a ton of strikes. That's easily one of my favorite picks of the draft.

Gerry - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 05:48 PM EDT (#398413) #

Ben Nicholson Smith reports that Martin hurt his hand on a slide last week.

uglyone - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#398417) #

Keith law would be even happier to rip the jays for "ruining" one of his draft day picks than he is patting himself on the back for a call that worked out.

greenfrog - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#398418) #

So far this year he’s been right about Biggio.

(Outrage meter goes to 11)

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#398419) #

FWIW, Law was also high on Warmoth. Didn't blame the Jays, blamed himself for not checking the EV numbers.

hypobole - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#398420) #

Was Moreno in the original lineup? Didn't play yesterday, not playing today.

Shoeless Joe - Thursday, May 20 2021 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#398425) #

Nick Frasso made his debut with the Jays tonight.

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