This is the week that will decide if the Jays are playoff bound or not I suspect. Seems insane with just 13 games in the bank but with a 60 game season that means in a week we'll be 1/3rd of the way through the season (54 game mark) which is when you start to decide if it is 'go for it' or 'cut bait' time. Just 2 games out of a locked in playoff slot (top 2 in each division get in), 1 1/2 behind Baltimore (of all teams) for the last playoff slot (wild card).

The dead offense has to start to come to life. Bo, Teoscar, and Gurriel are the only guys on the active roster with a 100+ OPS+. Vlad, Cavan are close in the 90's. The rest need to be told which end of the bat to hold. Alford & Drury are both negative OPS+ guys right now.

Pitching solid, with infinate ERA+ (ie: 0 earned runs allowed) from Bass, Romano, Cole, Waguespack, Borucki. 100+ ERA+'s out of Kay, Peason, Anderson, Dolis, and Hatch (IL Thornton also up there). Shoemaker & Ryu are in the 80's, Roark in the 70's, the rest (Yamaguchi, Font, DL'ed Giles, minors Gaviglio) under 50.

OPS is one thing.

By bWAR, Teoscar comes second (behind Bass) at 0.6, Gurriel is 3rd, also at 0.6.
Then you got Romano at 0.5 and Bichette at 0.5.

The worse players are Dury at -0.4,  Tellez,  Panik and Grichuk at -0.3, Jansen at -0.2  and  Alford, Fisher and  Guerrero at -0.1.

Shaw is at 0.2 because of defensive value.

Since I'm not terribly invested in how many wins the team garners this year, I'm hoping for a poor W-L record (with good progress by the younger players) so that the team can have a high draft pick next year.

I couldn't find the minor league thread :( so I'll post this here. Dave Laurila at FG speaks with Gil Kim on what SWR, Kloff and Kendall Williams are doing.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/blue-jays-farm-director-gil-kim-on-pitching-prospects-and-disparate-development-during-a-pandemic/

Here's something free from ESPN on the Sahlen Field transformation.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/29640183/blue-jays-wowed-upgrades-sahlen-field-new-buffalo-home

Kaitlyn at The Athletic also posted one yesterday.

Thanks for the link to the Laurilia interview, hypobole. I was most interested to read about SWR's developing repertoire.

Not a good Buffalo start.

This home plate umpire is brutal. Just awful.

Very exciting end to that game and a much needed win.

Apparently the two hardest hit balls that entire game were by Vlad...both groundball outs. I don't know if there's a hitter in MLB that would benefit more than he with an increased launch angle.

Exciting finish. Great to see Shaw with the big hit. Outstanding bunt by Danny.

Thanks for the fangraphs link hypobole. Made me do a tiny bit of research...

Sugar Land Skeeters games are sometimes online where you can watch Adam Kloffsenstein pitch. 3rd round pick in 2018 ranked #12 in the Jays system. 6 games, 12 1/3 IP 10 ER 15H 8 BB 11 K. Nice that at least some kids are playing anyways. Go to his page to see which days he pitched, then you can watch. $4 per game or $35 for the season (cheaper than MLB.tv but still costs).

I look forward to seeing what happens next year with these kids. Who did the work this year, who didn't. How the heck they decide where to put everyone in 2021. I expect SWR to be in AA next year, while kids who worked hard skip where they were to be in 2020 and go up an extra level, but ones who didn't work hard are where they'd have been in 2020. Great opportunity for kids in 2021 if they do the work this year.

There was an interesting play in the game last night. For those who didn't see it, Gurriel was on second and an attempted pickoff sailed into centerfield. Guriel had slid back to second and the Marlin rushing to cover slid over the base, but then purposely twisted his body so his legs were on top of Gurriel.
Gurriel had trouble getting up, even tripping as he tried to get away from under the Marlin player, and the second base umpire signaled interference. Gurriel then raced to third without even looking to see where the ball was and by this time the ball had been retrieved and he was easily thrown out.
An argument ensued and, after all 4 umpires conferred, the call was upheld with the decision being that according to the rules, even though Gurriel had been interfered with, it was up to the umpires discretion whether he would have been able to advance if he hadn't been obstructed. To me that is a poor rue in two ways: 1) If a player on the field purposely holds back or gets in the way of a runner, then the runner should automatically be given the next base and 2) I believe no.1 should be the rule because the umpire is guessing what might happen. If Gurriel hadn't been impeded, then the play might have been close and numerous things could have happened like an overthrown ball, ball knocked out of glove, missed tag, etc.
Anyway this may not be interesting to some but baseball can serve up a lot of different and strange plays.

Thanks ISLAND BOY for the Gurriel play.

I was wondering about prospect development. Lansing pitching coach Phil Cunardi is checking Kloff's bullpens and other data via video. K Williams is also sending data to the Jays.Repeating the delivery and finding release points are being worked on and fine tuned. Hope a lot of this has benefits.

Expected to lose prospect status this year:
Pearson, Kay, Alford, Hatch, Romano.

Guys who could still debut this year: Murphy, Merryweather, Adams.

Pretty unlikely for Adams.

Current bench of Panik, Drury, Alford is a tad underwhelming.

In the OP, Gerry mentioned the injured Fisher being 2nd in OPS on the team. His .400 OBP is 1st. Who's 2nd at .342? That would be noted on base machine Randall Grichuk.

Checked FG to see what the heck is going on there. His plate discipline is the best ever and still hitting the ball hard. Except he's turning into Vlad and hitting a ton of ground balls, which is the only thing I can find explaining the zero extra base hits thus far.

Three things with that Gurriel base running play:

Saying the interference was on purpose is a stretch. There was no way to be sure of that. Absolutely interference, but you can't insist intention.

Secondly, I think the umpires got it wrong. He would have been running and whether he could have been thrown out should go his way because he was the one interfered with.

Thirdly, the biggest mistake was on the part of Gurriel. If he thought he was being awarded third, there was no reason to try and run. He should have waited until the play was over and asked the umpire for clarification.

BA now ranks Jays farm system #4 in MLB, behind only Tampa, San Diego and Seattle.

https://www.baseballamerica.com/rankings/2020-mlb-organization-talent-rankings/

The other teams in the division are ranked as follows: Tampa (#1), Baltimore (#12), New York (#18), Boston (#23).

Despite a few missteps (such as trading Donaldson for Merryweather instead of Flaherty), the Jays front office has done a good job of rebuilding the talent base in the organization. I'm hoping that the team selects early in next year's draft to keep the rebuilding trend going. Contention starting in 2021 would be fine with me.

The 2020 Marlins are interesting.

Their best hitter is Brian Anderson.
This is his 4th year, he's 27. He should be worth at least 4 WAR but he's missed a few games last year.

The rest of the position players are mostly solid guys who can be counted on for 2~3 WAR but not good enough to find regular time. Kinda like Kevin Pillar.

Cervelli is 34 and on a 1-year contract. Probably signed with hopes of flipping him at the deadline.
Villar is in a similar spot, but only 30. They traded Easton Lucas to get him. (not a ranked prospect)
Aguilar was grabbed off waivers from Tampa. He's got 2 more years of arbitration.
Berti is a Jays farmhand who managed 1.6 WAR off the bench last year.
Corey Dickerson was signed as a free agent. 2 year contract. Still only 31.
Forsythe was on a minor deal with the Rangers and got released. He's a covid replacement.
Matt Joyce was also on a minor deal but already in house.

Isan Diaz, Monte Harrison and Jordan Yamamoto came over in the Yelich trade.

I'm not sure there's enough difference between drafting 10th, 16th or 22nd to worry about.
If the season ended today, they'd be drafting 12th.

2021 will look similar with someone taking Shoemaker's spot in the rotation.
Maybe the 4th outfielder will be settled. Maybe it doesn't matter.
They have Travis Shaw for another arbitration year, but Drury has to be gone.

It would be nice if Tellez could figure it out.

Teoscar has .872 OPS, but only 2 BB and 18 K. 
The walk leader is Jansen with 7 and he does not play every day.
That's a decent trade off if he can maintain that.
I'd like to see more platoon advantage with the catchers.

Sometimes draft order makes a huge difference. A few years back 2 teams had a player as #2 on their boards. They picked 25th and 29th. Their #1 went #1 overall, but their #2 kept getting passed over. The Yankees at 29 started getting excited. Unfortunately for them, and very fortunately for the rest of the AL East, Angels took Mike Trout 25th.

Would the Mariners have passed on Austin Martin if they picked ahead of us this year? Now maybe Hancock ends up with a better career, but right now, us picking 5th instead of 6th seems huge.

Obviously it's too early to worry about draft position (the team has played only 14 out of 60 games). The Jays could end up drafting very high in the draft, very low, or somewhere in the middle.

My point is that now is not the time for the team to rest on its laurels. More prospect talent will be needed to compete with talent-rich Tampa and the spending behemoths New York and Boston. Hence my desire to see the team end up in prime draft position one more time before the period of contention (hopefully) gets underway.

Prospects added next year won't make any difference for many years. Maybe a cup of coffee in 2024.
This year's results, however, will dictate how much money will go to the payroll next year.

That, however, is starting to look like a puzzle.

Scottt, do you think that Austin Martin will take many years to make the majors?

It’s not clear to me that how many wins the team garners this year will have any impact on next year’s payroll.

That's the whole point. We're not getting Austin Martin next year.
The Jays got him by playing without a rotation.
That's been fixed. They're nowhere near that bad now.
The Astros have a worst record and they were not playing all their games on the road.
Next year they're drafting between Jo Adell and Logan Warmoth--which doesn't mean they can't find another Pearson.

Clearly the 2020 results will dictate the 2021 payroll.
The core is all there. If they need more time, there's no point in spending on a big closer or a DH.
What's not clear is who will want to play in Toronto when Covid could come back and the Jays be exiled again.
What's not clear is what position do they try to upgrade.
They probably need to look into a trade.

You still haven’t said *why* the 2020 W-L record will impact the 2021 payroll (or provided any statements by the FO or Rogers to this effect). Arguably, Rogers’ recent financial challenges will play a much larger role in the size of the payroll going forward.

Most people thought we wouldn’t get Austin Martin this year — but we did. Sometimes an advanced prospect like Martin or Sale is available, sometimes not.

There is a lot of potential variability in how well all teams, the Jays included, will do this year. The Jays are playing a radically shortened season, which increases the role of luck in a team’s W-L record. Also, the Jays have a lot of inexperienced players, plus filler like Drury and Alford and Shaw and Tellez. And other factors like an unfamiliar ballpark and injuries and Covid-19 and players opting out add further uncertainty to the mix.

The draft is a mixed bag. The only guy the Jays ever drafted who went straight to the majors was a 3rd rounder - John Olerud (signability issues). The Jays only drafted HOF'er was a 16th overall pick iirc, and the next closest was a 20th round pick (Jeff Kent) or a 5th rounder (Dave Stieb). Yeah, picking higher is better, but the difference isn't enough to be worth tanking imo.

As to payroll in 2021, if the Jays make the playoffs then there is a big incentive to make sure they get there again next year. TV ratings in the playoffs will dictate a lot for the Jays, as will how MLB acts afterwards. Will we see a 16 team playoff in 2021 and beyond? Who knows right now. I'd bet strongly that MLB will fight hard to make it so.

There's probably never been an inning in MLB history like that. The Marlins scored 5 runs on:
1. A bases-loaded walk
2. A bases-loaded error
3. A bases-loaded passed ball
4. A fielder's choice (but not a steal of home). This one actually broke MLB Gameday which describes it as "Other Advance: Eddy Alvarez scores". In reality, it was just an awful decision by Danny Jansen.
5. An RBI single immediately followed by a 3rd out on the bases.

Such a shame, because they were still in this game until the Vlady error, but this is simply their worst game of the year.

Yeah that was one of the worst innings I've ever seen from the Jays. Is that the low point of the season or does it unravel completely from here? Maybe getting one more high draft pick in this weird quasi-season wouldn't be the worst thing. Also I wonder who the Jays manager is going to be one year from today.

Charlie Montoyo picks an excellent time to bring in Yamaguchi.

Bo and Vlad are trending in totally opposite directions.

Cracka, at great risk to your sanity, can you recount that inning in more detail for those of us lucky enough to have missed it?

Holy crap! Bo and Shaw just tied it!

And Dolis drops it. Sigh. So much fun but just shy of a victory - the story of 2020 for the Jays I suspect. So close, yet so far. Bo & Tellez having great games, solid ones on offense for Vlad, Shaw, Jansen, Grichuk. Hernandez had a HR but just 1 for 6. Everyone swinging for the fences once it was tied cost them. How to tell it is a very young team. Yamaguchi doing well is promising though - if he can pitch like this more often good things will happen. We all knew Pearson would have games like this - heck even Roy Halladay had that 10.64 ERA season - nothing to panic about as it was bound to happen at some point, just a shame it had to be the day the Jays would score 11.

Bunch of stuff from ESPN:

Toronto became the fourth team in major league history to lose while slugging at least seven homers.

Entering Wednesday, teams that hit at least seven homers in a game were 104-3 (.972), according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

The Blue Jays are the first team in MLB history to hit seven homers and lose by three or more runs, and the first to lose with seven homers and at least 18 hits, according to Elias.

It's starting to feel like Buffalo isn't a pitcher paradise.

When they bunt in overtime, the play should still be at first.
The odds of getting the out at third are much lower.
So, Drury going to the bag, that's not a good play.

If they do score 1 run, you also bunt and do the same.

If you pinch run for Vlad, you should steal the base.
Especially with 2 outs.

Vlad varies from looking competent at first to being totally inept. He muffed an easy grounder then dove too late to first to get the out in that horrible 5-run inning, then had a routine throw to first pop out of his glove.

Who is the Blue Jay's baserunning coach? Shaw got caught trying to advance from first to second on a mid-range fly ball last night. Two games ago Tellez took off for second before the pitcher even started his wind-up. Nearly every game one of the Jays makes a mistake on the bases that you would see in Little League.

Bo Bichette can really play baseball. I hope he plays all his career in a Jay's uniform.

Does anyone think that,if this had been a normal year, Nate Pearson would have benefited playing half a season at AAA? He looks like he could use some more work on his secondary pitches. If they're not working, major league hitters are catching up to his fastball which is high velocity but pretty straight. He also seems to lose his composure when something goes wrong and finds it harder to throw strikes.

Does anyone think that,if this had been a normal year, Nate Pearson would have benefited playing half a season at AAA?

Yup. And Vlad too. Get reps at first in the minors and work on a consistent higher launch angle.

There are so many highs & lows from last night's game; but I'm mostly concerned about the amateur mistakes.

First off, I think the 3rd inning might have gone differently with a veteran catcher. Pearson didn't have his command; the first two batters got singles off his slider, but then he struck out Brian Anderson (who had homered earlier) with two swing & mass sliders for out #1. And then he totally lost it: walking Cervelli on 4 pitches (sliders) and Alverez on 5 (fastballs). Pearson was obviously rattled, but he & Jansen keep trying the same pitch over and over, with increasingly worse results. A veteran catcher probably doesn't let this happen: mound visit, new pitch sequence, reminders to trust your stuff & your defense, etc. But Jano did none of this and he and Pearson just keep looking at each other helplessly.

Vlady's 1st error wasn't awful, he kept the ball in front of him and reacted fast enough to get most MLB hitters out (just not Sierra). Jano then got his signs mixed up (I think?), which led to the run-scoring passed ball during a 4-pitch walk. The worst play came next: Villar moved to 2nd base on defensive indifference (he wasn't being held on; middle infielders playing too deep to cover 2B). But Jansen threw to 2nd base anyway -- actually well past it almost to outfield grass -- and the runner at 3rd trotted home without a play. It was a terrible mental mistake and one that a veteran catcher almost certainly wouldn't make.

Both managers made weird pinch-running decisions. Alford ran for Vlady with 2 outs in the 8th inning and didn't try to steal; he was then replaced by Drury defensively. Even weirder was Mattingly pinch-running for Cervelli on a 3-2 pitch, with 2 outs in the 9th inning immediately after Cervelli stole 2nd base!

I don't know what to say about extra innings, but the new rules are not kind to teams that make mental mistakes (like Drury's non-play on the bunt) or baserunning errors. The Jays have consistently been outpitched in extra innings, despite seemingly having a deeper bullpen than their opponents.

Montoyo needs to clean up this act fast if he wants to return next year. It's a young team, and perhaps that's the problem. There's no veteran leadership. Bo Bichette is our alpha dog, and he's played in 58 career MLB games.

Very courageous of you to watch the whole game Cracka. Thanks for the analysis.

The Jays are young and making a lot of youthful errors. Miami probably has very little talent, so we were able to destroy their pitching.

The Jays figuring out how to play properly given time is guaranteed I presume.

Our Hr production can be compared to other teams if we use a formula that accounts for number of games played. We have to be very good there and in other offensive areas because we will eventually settle in as medium defensively.

It was nice to see Yamaguchi reaching 93mph and throwing some good splitters.

This is still just the 3rd week and many hitters take longer than that to get going.

Bo Bichette is a superstar.

Vlad seems like a mechanical adjustment (launch angle) away from turning things around, but it's a little disconcerting that he had excessive GB tendencies in 2019 and it has only gotten worse the following season. I know there wasn't much of a ST before the 3-4 month quarantine, and Summer Camp was basically just practice sessions, but him hitting 70% of his balls in play on the ground (even if they are hard hit) in his 2nd season is not a good look for him or the coaching staff. It's still early, but the season ends in like 6 weeks, so there's not much time to turn things around. This issue should have been identified and worked on last year. Between that, and keeping him at 3B for years before randomly moving him to 1B a week before a season was about to begin (hence the bad defense), it has been a questionable developmental year for Vlad and the team.

The amount of weight Vlad gained between the 2 "spring" trainings was unconscionable.

I had thought that Vlad would reciprocate the Jays trust in leaving him at 3rd base by working on his fitness, but the shape he was in after the hiatus quashed that rather emphatically.

I can't presume to know what kind of inner drive he has, but from the outside looking in, it seems minimal. And if that's the case, the FO that's been around him for years should have seen what's happened as a very real possibility.

Oh well, at least the Jays DH position is set for the next 5 years if weight-related injuries don't start cropping up.

Vladdy's hitting profile seems to be more like Yandy Diaz than Miguel Cabrea.

MLB is trying to facilitate data sharing between the Alternative Training Sites.
That's because it's not possible to scout other teams' prospects right now.
I don't know about that.
After all the cheating we've seen, it's hard to imagine teams trading inside information on their prospects without something shady going on.

Even Eric Hosmer is trying not to be Eric Hosmer this year.

"That's the whole point. We're not getting Austin Martin next year.
The Jays got him by playing without a rotation.
That's been fixed. They're nowhere near that bad now."

2020: .400w%, .393pyth%, 25th place
2019: .414w%, .440pyth%, 26th place

Last year the offense was average (at the end of the year) and the pitching was bad.
Now the offense is still average and the pitching is at least average so they should land close to .500 once they have played Baltimore 10 times.

Here comes the Rays who are struggling. They have 2 starting pitchers on the IL.

Today, we'll see Trevor Richards.
Tomorrow, Yarbrough, maybe with an opener.
Yonny Chirinos and Anthony Banda are possibilities  for Sunday.

Buffalo memories for the Rays include tall pitchers getting lost in the outfield display (which has been fixed) and relief pitchers attracting gulls with sunflower seeds to annoy the outfielders (no seeds allowed this year).

Thanks UO.

At some point we will run out of time this year.Of course it is still a little early to say that we are done this year (nobody is saying that). 60 game schedule, played 15 games. 6 of 40 played against AL east teams. 9 of 20 against other. So a lot of AL east games to go. I like this.

We finish our 10 games with the Rays on Aug 24. The 6th game against the Red Sox is done on Aug 27. Total of 30 games played. Unless postponements.

The trade deadline can be seriously thought about then. Maybe even decisions made.

Does anyone think that,if this had been a normal year, Nate Pearson would have benefited playing half a season at AAA? Yup. And Vlad too. Get reps at first in the minors and work on a consistent higher launch angle.

In a normal season, they both could have used some time in Buffalo to gets some work in.

2020: .400w%, .393pyth%, 25th place 2019: .414w%, .440pyth%, 26th place

It *feels* like we're better at least! It seems we're more competitive that our outcomes suggest, with the main issue being... shooting ourselves in the foot.

The Orioles, with MLB's 7th best position player WAR, are showing how to build an offence. Prospects? Overrated. Big Ticket FA's? Waste of money.

These are their top 9, combining for 4.5 WAR.
1 homegrown (Cisco) 0.6 WAR
1 FA -1 yr/$3 Million (Iglesias) 0.5 WAR
1 Rule 5 (Santander) 0.2 WAR
1 DFA Trade (Smith jr) 0.3 WAR
5 Waiver Claims (Alberto, Severino, Nunez, Ruiz, Valaika) 2.9 WAR

They shot themselves in both feet last game, and maybe even the knees.

They shot themselves in both feet last game, and maybe even the knees.

It's just a flesh wound!

I think I'll be citing small sample size on numerous things (especially the Orioles) right through game 60.

Over 15 games our longest losing streak is 3 games. No 3 game winning streak to date. I am sure this means nothing.

How bad would you feel as a White Sox fan seeing that you gave away Tatis for a 34 YO James Shields when he had a 4.28 ERA in SD and the White Sox finished 16.5 games out of first and in 4th anyway? People here freak out looking at marginal prospects we let go just imagine giving away the best young player in baseball for a crappy 5th starter when you weren't even trying to compete.

Glevin, the memory of Mike Sirotka prevents me from ever feeling sorry for any White Sox disaster. Never forget, never forgive!

Actually, I forget a lot, so I try to double down on never forgiving.

Clevinger and Plesac reinstated by Cleveland. And both then optioned to to their alternate training site.

This way they get paid.

Plesac could possibly lose super 2 status if they keep him down long enough.

I think we're lining up to see LeBlanc, Eshelman and Milone, vs Ryu, Pearson and Roarke.

LeBlanc was a Blue Jays but never pitched here. He's over 6 year of service but it looks like he's never made more than the minimum. He appears to be making most of his money this year from the Mariners buying back his option.

Eshelman was traded by the Phillies for International Bonus Slot money.

Milone was signed as a FA. 100K/ for the short 2020 season, same as LeBlanc.

"This way they get paid."

Just not major league salary.

you gave away Tatis for a 34 YO James Shields when he had a 4.28 ERA in SD and the White Sox finished 16.5 games out of first and in 4th anyway?

And, most mystifying of all, kept your job? Shields went 4-12, 6.77 for those 2016 White Sox, and here's what I'm wondering: could Rick Hahn possibly have incriminating photos of Jerry Reinsdorf? Has the badness of the Chicago Bulls so distracted Reinsdorf that he hasn't noticed that his baseball team hasn't has a winning season since 2012?

That's my one piece of advice to vladdy - keep walking, young man.

They've been throwing you junk since day one. Just stop swinging. Use your great eye and wait until they start pitching to youm

Clevinger gets his 4M salary even in the minors.

Our offence seems to be getting on track. Bo and Teoscar have been awesome. Cavan, Rowdy, Shaw, Grichuk all with a wRC+ 100 or better. Vlad gets his OBP over .300. Gurriel is the only regular scuffling now.

Wasn't enthused about Font coming in, but that double play ball was huge at the time. Borucki still looking really good.

And maybe one of the biggest highlights of the night was watching Aaron Loup plunk another LHB in a crucial situation without having the urge to throw anything at the TV screen (Side note - I have never actually thrown anything at my TV screen).

Yes, Clevinger has a major league deal. I was wrong on him. I may be wrong on Plesac also, but I don't think so.

Loup has pitched in 389 games, faced ~1425 batters and has now hit 35 of them. Including the two dingers tonight, he has only given up career 27 HRs. I can't find any other recent pitcher who has done this (more HBP than HR) over their career (Charlie Morton is next closest at 119:121).

Found this at ESPN:

Blue Jays: All three players on the IL are nearing a return, though Montoyo did not have a timetable for any of them. Closer Ken Giles had a clear MRI for his strained forearm and played catch Friday, pitcher Trent Thornton had a bullpen session, and outfielder Derek Fisher ran bases yesterday. All three were described to be "feeling good."

I imagine Panik is on the bubble when Fisher comes back.
Waguespack is obviously the next guy to go down, since he was just sent down.
Cole has been too good to drop, I guess Font is the one that goes if everyone is healthy.

Loup has pitched in 389 games, faced ~1425 batters and has now hit 35 of them

To add to this, if you are a LHB facing Loup... DUCK! He has faced 599 LHB and has hit 25 of them, a pace of 24 PA per HBP. Ron Hunt, holder of the modern day single-season record for HBP, was hit at a pace of 25 PA per HBP in his career. So when Loup sees a LHB, that batter is effectively Ron Hunt.

Instead of intentionally walking batters by holding up 4 fingers, I wonder if Loup could just intentionally hit them by holding up 1 finger.

" All three were said to be 'feeling good'. "

There is no imminent return for any of them, though. An injury report at the end of an article at Sportsnet said there was no timetable for Thornton and Giles to return to action. Even when he is fully recovered Fisher will have to go to the Jay's alternate training site and get some at bats first.

Speaking of the alternate training site, what goes on there? Do they just work out and have simulated games? I am interested in how Groshans, Martin, Kirk and the rest of the top prospects are doing.

2 off days left for the season 10th and 14th of Sept. The pitchers will get a good test probably. Some of the young ones may get stretched out. The stretching out will depend on injuries, illness and veterans Shoemaker, Roark and Anderson being able to hold on to their rotation spot. Shoemaker is solidifying his spot in the rotation.

Alternate training sites seem to have become Area 5!'s. Almost no info comes out and then only what teams allow to come out.
What's up with Manoah and Elvis? They were on the IL. Are they healthy now?

Gabriel Moreno has been added to 60 man player pool. I too would appreciate an update on Manoah and Luciano if anyone has one.

There are no journalists at the alternate sites.
At most someone could get to ask some question to a minor league coach, but they are not going to say anything negative.

I laughed when I heard the Cards had rented 41 cars and everybody was driving the 4 hours to Chicago.
They start with a doubleheader today.

Thanks Peter G about Gabe M. I honestly did not think that was allowed mid season. Guess I was wrong.

There's an on going discussion about extending the players pool by 15 extra players.
Not everybody is on board.

Guys who could be exposed to the rule 5 draft this fall:

Ty Tice, (no idea where he's at)
Ryley Adams, (should be added to the reserve list)
Kevin Smith, (probably not going to be taken)
Gabriel Moreno, (already?)
Logan Warmoth (nah)
Samad Taylor (probably not)
Cullen Large
Yhon Perez
Otto Lopez
Chavez Young
Brod Lundquist
Steward Berroa
Justin Dillon
Graham Spraker
Maximo Castillo
Josh Winckowski
Edisson Gonzalez
Roither Hernandez
Naswell Paulino
Emanual Vazcaino
Connor Law

and there's a huge list of guys who were elible this year
Dany Jimenez
Kirby Snead
Jackson McClelland
Corey Coping
Jon Harris
Andrew Sopko
Reggie Pruitt
Demi Orimoloye
Brian Baker
Forest Wall
etc...

Honestly if SRF and Hector Perez haven't shown enough to crack the majors this season then I'm not sure they warrant a 40 man roster slot this offseason.

Bo Bichette is 6th in the league in xwOBA.

The Jays-Rays game picks up in the bottom of the 4th at 1 PM. A 30 minute break then a 7 inning game is supposed to be played. Teams can add a player, so someone may do the 120 km drive from Rochester. Unfortunately, scattered thunderstorms are forecast starting around 3 and continuing throughout the rest of the day.

Regarding SRF and H Perez both burned 1 option in 2019. Don't know how 2020 works regarding options. Also no mention about the juiced ball for this year. Some pitchers had trouble with the ball. A Sanchez was one.

Romano is a hard throwing failed starter with only 2 good pitches. SRF and H Perez may be the same.

Bo scheduled for an MRI on his right knee. The reason is discomfort which applies to my feelings as well.

I thought Perez and SRF were good bullpen candidates, but if they aren't going to try it this year I don't think it bodes well for them. Others on the 40 man like Hatch and Kay are getting serious burn on the major league team.

Also no mention about the juiced ball for this year.

At first blush, this year's ball looks to be the same as last year's.

2019 MLB: 4.83 R/G; PA/HR 27.5; PA/K 4.4; 252/323/435
2020 MLB: 4.67 R/G; PA/HR 28.7; PA/K 4.3; 240/318/413

This season's slash line is starting to go up and the HR and K rates are already in line with last year's.

Some caveats/arguments when comparing the numbers:

• 2020 offensive numbers are hurt (but improving) because pitchers seemed to be ahead of the hitters, and the hitters are only now catching up.
• 2020 offensive numbers are helped by the absence of spring baseball in cool weather, which inhibits offense.
• 2020 offensive numbers are helped because NL pitchers do not have to bat.

So you've got forces working both for and against the 2020 numbers. It will be interesting to check in a couple of weeks to see how the 2020 numbers look.

HR/FB is the 1st juiced ball stat I would look at.

2020 - 14.9%
2019 - 15.3%
2018 - 12.7%
2017 - 13.7%
2016 - 12.8%

With the factors Chuck mentioned, seems this year's balls are similar to last year's.

Right knee sprain for Bo. On the 10 day IL. Espinal recalled.

Gaviglio the 29th man for game 2.

With the way Bo is hitting, even a two week stint might sink any chance of a winning record this season.

Also who is this Randall Grichuk? Every other season he was a high power, low discipline guy and this year he is a disciplined low power guy?

Carapazzo showed a lot of restraint there. Shoemaker could have been tossed earlier.

Everyone has a limit.

True, but understandable why he was mad. Ump had been calling that pitch a strike all afternoon.

Seemed to fire up Guerrero. Looked PO’d while he circled the bases.

I've barely watched but I can't stand this team. Wtf was that hernandez? Forget about the runner? Maybe the Jays should just forfeit rays games...

Montoyo better be all over Hernandez. That was appalling for little league.

At a certain point, isn't this on the manager and the coaching staff? The Blue Jays might drop another series to the Rays when with a few better managerial decisions, they could have won.

Why is Anthony Alford pulled for defence and Gurriel isn't? Why does this team make mental mistake after mental mistake? This is on the manager and the coaching staff.

Sorry, my question is why is Alford not moved to right field and Gurriel to left?

I don’t care about this season too, too much... but man the stupid Tampa Bay Rays annoy the f### out of me. I guess that’s business as usual heh.

Why is Anthony Alford pulled for defence and Gurriel isn't?

I assume you mean Hernandez, and the answer is... no one knows. It's a mystery.

I love the Jays but, man, this team is really terrible.

Yeah I think I’m done watching this year. Enough things to get depressed about these days without watching the Leafs and the Jays.

Not a basketball fan, but what the heck. Go Raptors. They seem to care.

By my count, that's 8 of the 11 losses have come in the last inning of games. Two games they've lost when they were one out away from winning. They're playing terribly and yet they're so close to winning so many of these games. It's going to cost them a playoff spot.

I agree with Petey Baseball that the Manager and coaching staff are playing a big role in all of this. Charlie is in way over his head imo. Nice guy but we all know what Leo Durocher said about nice guys.

Nice guy but we all know what Leo Durocher said about nice guys.

It's fairly well known, I think, that Durocher was talking about a specific nice guy: Mel Ott, who was managing the New York Giants in 1946. I had always believed that the correct version of the quote was "Nice guy, finishes last." However, the New York Journal American actually quotes Durocher as saying "The nice guys are over there, in seventh place" (which was where the Giants were that day.)

It's all part of the service here at Magpie's Weird and Trivial Baseball Stuff.

Well, if the Jays wanted an excuse to fire the manager after the season so they could bring in the guy to push them over the top I think we've seen enough reasons. Of course that is assuming the 'real' manager made the call on outfield defense and not the bench coach. What moron would pull Alford for defense when his whole game is speed and defense? While leaving Hernandez in who is known for offense and poor defense? Just bizarre.

As to the ump, it is lucky I don't play as I'd have been calling him 'AAA' after that call and ejecting a pitcher from the dugout. That is pure minor league - you don't eject a starting pitcher from the dugout except in extreme situations. Especially in a doubleheader. Leave him in or get the call and the Jays win this game I bet as the pen would've been more relaxed if Shoemaker got to do the 5th and probably 6th inning. Instead every ball-strike call has to be put under a microscope (Kay also was going to leave the field after what he thought was a 3rd strike that was called a ball). Robo umps can't come soon enough. Bottom line though is that was a super-winnable game and the Jays should've had a bigger lead before the umpires 3 runs and Hernandez shouldn't have been in the field in the 7th to allow that tying run to score.

Intentionally losing for years to collect a handful of good prospects always magically produces a winning team.

I forgot the date: 7 July 1946!

Thank goodness for Batter's Box we're losing. This site is almost dead when we play well.

Vic Carapazza was (in)famously the plate umpire for the 19-inning game on Canada Day, 2016. Encarnacion was ejected in the first and Martin was ejected in the 13th. He was also the plate umpire for game 2 of the 2015 ALDS. Both games left Jays fans questioning his competency as an umpire.

“Intentionally losing for years”

It worked for the Rays.

Robo umps can't come soon enough.

I do agree, but in this instance, the robot would have called a ball -- like the flesh umpire did -- on the pitch that so aggravated Shoemaker.

I'm just saying its hard to fathom the Jays being this abysmal, repeatedly, under a more experienced manager. Yes, we criticized Gibbons relentlessly for the Jays record in one run games. But I can't recall such a long period of time where a Blue Jays team was this sloppy.

But I can't recall such a long period of time where a Blue Jays team was this sloppy.

Nor I, but the Jays have also never fielded a team this young and this inexperienced. In the midst of a global pandemic, after an unscheduled three month layoff. Some of this is just what young players do. Some of this is what happens when you don't have a proper spring training to get everyone working on their fundamentals, the blessed fundamentals.

And it may also be true that brain cramps, like hitting and infectious diseases, are similarly contagious.

Growing pains. Teams like the White Sox took years to get their players sorted out.
There's a lot of positive. We seem to have outhit and outpitched the Rays.

The bad news is that Bichette could be out for 3-weeks to a month.
I don't want to see Drury playing short.

I haven't watched any games but the results are what my expectations were - it's a young inexperienced team combined with the chaos of the season including the nomadic travel and I'm not surprised - next year hopefully will return to some normality and a better assessment of the team and management.This year is a wasteland and a cheap year of service lost.

"It worked for the Rays."

Took them a full 10yrs of suckage. And they never had a choice but to suck to start off.

Of course, they sucked always under bad management, and turned it around and started winning almost instantly under good management.

What Magpie said.

I haven't watched more than a few innings of non-Jays games this year, so I can't speak to how well other teams are playing, but FG has 23 teams having played worse defence than the Jays thus far. The short pre-season training seems to be having a league-wide effect.

It's frustrating because we're not bad like last year. A lot of close games amplify each blunder.

Maybe replacing stroman/sanchez/buchholz with ryu/roark/anderson and Smoak/Sogard/Galvis with Shaw/Panik wasn't actually much of an upgrade?

Atkins is always preaching depth.

Groshans and A Martin give us fantastic depth for 2b,3b and ss. This helps with an injury. They always seem to happen.

Groshans was on his way to showing flashes of a Bichette type of season. Bichette was great in 2017 at Lansing and Dunedin. Groshans seemed to have a better bb/k ratio.

We are not going to get any 2020 numbers to compare the 2 of them. Opinions given will always be positive because that is how the FO wants it IMO. I have Groshans above Martin on my prospect list because he has earned his ranking. Martin has the higher draft and bonus ranking. O Martinez and M Hiraldo also show good upside to increase our depth.

If this rebuild produces a long window of contending I am really happy to see it from the beginning. We had a lot of pain (Joey Mac) before it all clicked.

Depending on how playoffs are determined during our window we could be playoff bound quite often. Playoff revenue!!

T Hernandez's defense is a work in progress (being kind). The FO or manager is allowing him to learn by facing all situations. They have hope I suppose that he can get good enough. Last year he was sent to Buffalo for 3 weeks to work on a few things.

Stroman has opted out without a pitch. Sanchez is on the DL, will probably miss the whole year.
Buchholz is a free agent. I think he's done.

Smoak is having a bad starts. -0.4 bWAR. Sogard is with Milwaukee. Nobody's hitting there right now.
Galvis is with the Reds and looking OK, but  his replacement was Bo Bichette, not Panik or Shaw.

I'm not sold on Jansen yet. He's still struggling to hit .200.
The one positive thing I can say for sure is that he block the plate well.
I'm not sure about his game calling.
It seems Buck has better scouting on the hitters than Jansen does.

I think it will help when they play everyday and they move closer to a platoon.

The Tigers had a surprising start but fell back to earth.
So they just called up Casey Mize, Tarik Skubal and Isaac Paredes.

Should prove interesting.

next year hopefully will return to some normality and a better assessment of the team and management

This probably belongs in the COVID thread, but what's to say that next year will be any different than this year? Assuming a vaccine is successfully created by the end of 2020, to manufacture it, distribute it and vaccinate "everyone" (i.e., those willing) will take a good chunk of 2021.

I know the professional leagues are just sorting out how to get through 2020, earn some scratch and keep their sports in the public consciousness, but they've got another year of misery ahead of them. I don't see how it can be any other way.

And what of minor leaguers who are not playing? How will their development be impacted by being largely idle? And who will make up next year's draft pool? A bunch of idle kids?

Stroman has opted out without a pitch. Sanchez is on the DL, will probably miss the whole year.
Buchholz is a free agent.

Those 3 have given up exactly ZERO earned runs this year. Way better than the 3 pickups our FO got. :)

If a vaccine is found (still an if, but promising results that have been released) then you can bet pro sports leagues will do everything they can to inoculate their players and their families quickly. Thus making 2021 a full season even if it is without fans or half fans or 1/4 full. All of those are easy to imagine as the vaccine rolls out. I could see spring/April as 1/4 crowd maximum, then 1/2 through July and full stadiums for September/October/playoffs. Lets hope.

What those players do this year, of course, has nothing to do with what they did for us last year.