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The Jays close out their road schedule this weekend against the division champs.


The Yankees clinched the division last night, but there probably aren't too many hangovers going into today's action.  As manager Aaron Boone said "we've got bigger fish to fry" and first would be trying to finish ahead of Houston and secure home field advantage if the AL comes down to a Yankees-Astros showdown. In the meantime, the hits keep coming. Starting pitcher Domingo German, their top winner (18-4) has been placed on administrative leave while MLB investigates domestic abuse allegations. With the 2019 Yankees there's always a next man to step up - in this case it's Luis Severino who made his season debut this week after being shelved all year with shoulder and lat issues. Severino had made three rehab appearances, working just 7.2 innings - he was still able to go four scoreless innings against the Angels (who are without Trout and Ohtani.) We should see him this weekend. We did see Dellin Betances finally make his season debut for the Yankees last weekend, after being out all season with a shoulder issue. And we know what happened - Betances struck out the two batters he faced, hopped off the mound, and hurt his Achilles tendon. His season is effectively over, as while he may be able to avoid surgery he will be in a walking boot for the next four weeks.

Do we feel sorry for them? I do not think we do. They're still the Yankees. They still remain the focus of evil in the modern world.

Aaron Judge sat last night, nursing a shoulder he banged up diving in the outfield, and it remains to be seen if he'll play tonight. If not - hey, Giancarlo Stanton is back in the lineup after two stints on the IL that took him out of the lineup for 68 and 74 games. Old friend J.A. Happ has been cleared to pitch tonight - Happ has been troubled by biceps tendinitis, which he says has bothered him for his last five starts. During which he has, mysteriously enough, pitched quite a bit better. 

Matchups! Both managers have made use of The Opener this season, so let's regard these guys as the Featured Pitcher. As of Friday morning.

Fri 20 Sep. Waguespack (4-5, 4.70) vs Happ (12-8, 5.07)
Sat 21 Sep. Zeuch (1-0, 4.61) vs Paxton (14-6, 3.88)
Sun 22 Sep. Thornton (5-9, 4.93) vs Severino (0-0, 0.00)

Magic Number: 1 - (any combination of Jays victories and Games Rained Out will ensure the team does not lose 100 games.)
Jays at Yankees, 20-22 September | 126 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
ayjackson - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#381636) #
Waguespack sounds like a British insult.
Mike Green - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#381638) #
They still remain the focus of evil in the modern world.

Amending a Willie Nelson quote:  "it's not the guys in white hats or black hats you've got to worry about, it's the ones in pinstripes".

For me, the club's magic number is 8.  Not likely, but if they do that, they'll end the second half of the season with a winning record. 
rpriske - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#381639) #
"As manager Aaron Boone said "we've got bigger fish to fry" and first would be trying to finish ahead of Houston and secure home field advantage if the AL comes down to a Yankees-Astros showdown."

I remember how much it pissed me off when the Jays clinched a Play-off spot and then mailed it in for the next three games even though home field advantage was on the line.

Boone has it right.

"Never stop fighting till the fight is done." - Elliot Ness
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#381640) #
100 losses is just a number (plus the word losses), even if 3 digit losses in a season are considered worse than 2.

Draft position is what's really important now. Been predicting for some time we draft 5th, because it seemed assured. I like to make predictions that are guaranteed to happen, as John pointed out in the last thread. Seattle isn't dropping, but the Pirates seem in shell-shocked disarray. They must be able to win a few more games this season, or maybe not.

Oceanbound - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#381647) #
Waguespack sounds like a British insult.

I guess you could call him a Scally Wag.
ISLAND BOY - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#381649) #
You took the words out of my mouth, rpriske. It's okay to spray some champagne around but save the real celebrating for when the team wins the World Series!
John Northey - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 01:59 PM EDT (#381655) #
Regardless of draft position (really draft dollars is the biggest thing imo) I want the Jays to pound the Yankees into dust this weekend. Well, OK, to win all 3 games.

In 2004 (the year from hell) the Jays lost 94, in 1980 they lost 95 which was actually their best result to that point. 3 times they lost 100 (1977/1978/1979). No other season has seen a Jay team lose 90+. 1981 was on pace for 105 but the first big strike, and 1995 should've been a 90+ loss season instead of 88 (again, strike) as they were on pace for 99 losses and in truth looked worse.

So if these Jays end with 'just' 91 losses thanks to a killer finish I'm good. I'd love a 5th draft pick, but I enjoy watching them win more.
Magpie - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#381656) #
the Pirates seem in shell-shocked disarray.

Just because they gave up a run this week by throwing the ball away on an appeal play? Happens all the time.
vw_fan17 - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#381657) #
Thanks for mentioning that, Magpie - I had no idea (only been spending a few minutes catching up each day - have to watch the "condensed games" because work is busy) - that's just hard to believe..
Magpie - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#381658) #
So right now the Jays are picking 5th. It's theoretically possible they could pick 9th. What difference does it make? Who knows. But here are the players chosen 5th overall since 2010, followed by the guys taken immediately after them (6,7,8,9).

2010 - Drew Pomeranz (Barret Loux, Matt Harvey, Delino DeShields, Karsten Whitson). Chris Sale went 13th, Christian Yelich went 23rd.

2011 - Bubba Starling (Anthony Rendon, Archie Bradley, Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez).

2012 - Kyle Zimmer (Albert Almora, Max Fried, Mark Appel, Andrew Heaney). Corey Seager went 18th.

2013 - Clint Frazier (Colin Moran, Trey Ball, Hunter Dozier, Austin Meadows). Aaron Judge went 32nd.

2014 - Nick Gordon (Alex Jackson, Aaron Nola, Kyle Freeland, Jeff Hoffman). Matt Chapman went 25th.

2015 - Kyle Tucker (Tyler Jay, Andrew Benintendi, Carson Fulmer, Ian Happ). Walker Buehler went 24th, Mike Soroka went 28th.

Win every remaining game! It's good for you, and it's not going to hurt.
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#381659) #
Thanks for the heads up on that Pirates appeal play, Magpie. Watching it also answered something I was wondering a few days ago - what ever happened to Brian Butterfield? Yeah, I don't watch any Cubs games.
Magpie - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#381660) #
Hat tip to Jayson Stark at the Athletic. He's also got the tale of how Bryan Reynolds scored from first on a walk against the Cubs, and how the Dodgers scored two runs on a strikeout.
Mike Green - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#381662) #
Since 1965, the 20+WAR players for each pick-
5th- Posey, Braun, Drew, Jack McDowell, Gooden, Dale Murphy
6th- Rendon, Greinke, Jeter, Sheffield, Barry Bonds, McReynolds, Van Slyke, Kennedy, Mayberry (wow!)
7th- Nola, Kershaw, Tulo, Markakis, Prince Fielder, Trot Nixon, Frank Thomas (not too shabby either)
8th- Lindor, Helton, Abbott, Jay Bell
9th- Danks, Zito, Kotsay, Geoff Jenkins, Appier, Darling

There's a lot of fluke in it, obviously (that the #6 and #7 picks have been better than the #5s).  But the differences between 5 and 8 or 9 are probably fairly modest.  The differences between 2 (say) and 5 are huge though.  There are 16 #2 picks who have amassed 20 WAR including Bregman, Bryant, Verlander, Will Clark and Reggie.  For the 1-1 picks, it's 23 players who have 20+ WAR. 
Mike Green - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#381663) #
Did I mention that BBRef has a wonderful draft search feature?
dan gordon - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#381664) #
I'm not concerned about picking 5th, 6th or 7th in the draft. A few days ago, I posted a look at all of the draft choices in those spots that turned out to be premium players in the entire history of the draft, and the 6th and 7th overall picks are actually a little better than the 5th overall picks. At 8th, they started to decline somewhat.
Gerry - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#381666) #
Ryan Dull we hardly knew ya. Dull has been DFA's in favour of Breyvic Valera, claimed from the Yankees. He just has to walk across to the other dressing room.
dan gordon - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#381667) #
I'd probably rather have Dull. Valera is in his 10th year of pro ball. He hits for average, didn't really show much power until he got some help from the AAA ball this year, is a terrible base stealer, walks a bit, will be 28 before the start of next year. Had a good season in AAA this year. Career .562 OPS in the big leagues, .758 in the minors. I guess he competes with Urena and Espinal for the backup infield position next year. He's mainly played 2B, some SS, 3B and OF.
Gerry - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#381668) #
Bichette will not play this weekend so Dull had to go to get a backup shortstop. With Bo out, Alford gets a start.
grjas - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#381670) #
Regardless of draft position (really draft dollars is the biggest thing imo) I want the Jays to pound the Yankees into dust this weekend. Well, OK, to win all 3 games

I prefer the pound option.
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#381671) #
the 6th and 7th overall picks are actually a little better than the 5th overall picks.

I'm guessing that poorly run teams tend to finish lower in the standings. And if they're poorly run, why should their drafting decisions be any different in most occasions. Cheap teams also picked lower upside guys back in the day (Houston picking Nevin over Jeter because of money).
PeterG - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 05:21 PM EDT (#381673) #
Valera was only claimed to fill in this season as Bichette likely won't play again this year. He won't be kept on the 40 man roster in the off season.
Mike Green - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#381674) #
Needless to say, the Bichette injury is concerning.  You can get an MTBI without any actual blow to the head from a rapid shaking, as in an acceleration-deceleration injury.

vw_fan17 - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#381675) #
Seem's like Ryan Dull's tenure here was quite uneventful.
Gerry - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 05:42 PM EDT (#381676) #
Luis Quinones, who put up great numbers in Vancouver this year, has been busted for steroids. He will serve an 80 game suspension next season.
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#381677) #
Quinones is the only Blue Jays prospect drug suspension this year. Marc a few months back thought Addison Barger was as well, but apparently not. Barger, the 6th rounder last year, has been on the restricted list since mid-July.
John Northey - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#381678) #
Well, better a 34th round pick gets caught who is having a killer season than a 1st round pick or something.
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#381679) #
than a 1st round pick or something.

Unless it was Warmoth.
Mike Green - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#381680) #
Didn't Billy Joel rhyme Waguespack with Hackensack in one of his songs? If he didn't, he should have!
scottt - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#381681) #
You can't look at the draft order before the  2012 CBA, because back then teams could pick the best prospects anywhere just by promising more money. For example, in 2007, Porcello was picked 27th by Detroit who paid him 6 million over slot.

Even in the 2012-2016 years, you can't look at the first pick in isolation. For example, Hunter Dozier was a huge overdraft by the Royals who used the money to sign Sean Manaea.

You have to look at the entire draft, because you don't just pick earlier in the first round, you pick earlier in every single round and you get a bigger pool of money to sign players. Also, you don't just pick whoever is ranked here and there. You scout players that you like more and keep in touch with them and figure out where you can sign them.

This year, with the 5th pick, they could have gotten Lodolo who is graded 55 instead of Manoah who is graded 50.

Just looking at the Astros, Bergman was drafted 2nd, Verlander 2nd, Cole 1st, Correa 1st, etc...

scottt - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#381682) #
Marc figured that Barger was too young to retire. He's a tall skinny guy who doesn't look like David Ortiz.
Could be mental issues like Danny Duffy. Could be anything.

hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#381683) #
That was a great MLB tag by Biggio. Knee on the base and shoved his glove into the sliding Maybin instead of just holding it in place like in the minors.
ayjackson - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#381684) #

"Didn't Billy Joel rhyme Waguespack with Hackensack in one of his songs?"

Anthony Kay might know the answer.
hypobole - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:21 PM EDT (#381685) #
And Giles with a "Screw you" to Cashman for backing out of that deadline deal.
scottt - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:22 PM EDT (#381686) #
What a game. Didi got a pass on a 3rd strike but Gardner paid back for it. Love it.
scottt - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#381687) #
Great game from Jansen. Love the catching tandem.
scottt - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#381688) #
On the draft watch, Seattle lost in Baltimore and the Pirates are well on their way to another loss.

2 teams only 2 games ahead with 8 to go.

dan gordon - Friday, September 20 2019 @ 10:51 PM EDT (#381690) #
Nice to see Waguespack bounce back after a few rough appearances. He almost got though 5 with 1 run allowed against the Yankees. Jansen's HR gets the catcher position to 20. Two more spots to go. Biggio needs 1 and Vlad needs 3. Ken Giles is awesome.

scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 12:19 AM EDT (#381692) #
German's season is over.
Torres felt weak in his lower legs and will be evaluated tomorrow.

hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 12:39 AM EDT (#381694) #
Bo could/should be back this season.

"It could be a few days, three days, a week," Montoyo said.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 09:51 AM EDT (#381697) #
It's a concussion. You can predict nothing. You just have to wait for the symptoms to go away.

If he's back for spring training, that's great.
If he's able to train normally over the winter, that's even better.
It doesn't matter if he plays another game this year.
Let's just have a look at Urena.

Winning on a Smoak homerun is bittersweet as they'll have to replace his offense somehow next year.

hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 09:56 AM EDT (#381698) #
I'm no concussion expert, but I would think long-lasting symptoms are usually more alarming than symptoms that clear up quickly.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:05 AM EDT (#381700) #
What's alarming are repeat concussions. Or a second one the when the symptoms haven't cleared.

There's Rowan's Law in Ontario. It covers Athletes under 26 years of age.
The text is ready available and mandatory reads for parents now.
It's not short.

BlueJayWay - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:08 AM EDT (#381701) #
Winning on a Smoak homerun is bittersweet as they'll have to replace his offense somehow next year.

Given what Smoak's done this year that shouldn't be particularly difficult for the 1B position.
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#381702) #
You seem to be saying if you have one concussion and symptoms persist for a long time it's not alarming.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:32 AM EDT (#381704) #
I'm not sure.

First of all, lots of 1B struggle for year to year. Kinda like relievers.
The Rays have Choi, but Meadows is their primary DH, he's an outfielder.
The Yankees have  used LeMahieu a lot at 1B and haven't really had a regular DH.
Boston has an outfielder DHing.
Cleveland tried Hanley Ramirez in the DH spot. Bobby Bradley. Eric Haase. They're currently using Franmil Reyes, an outfielder.
The Twins have C. J. Cron at 1B (1.5 WAR) and Nelson Cruz at DH.
The A's have Matt Olson and Kris Davis.
The Astros have a young Yordan Alvarez, an outfielder at DH. Gurriel is at 1B and the backup is Tyler White.

The good teams have  good young players in those spots or established all-stars.

We still need to see what Tellez/Fisher/Hernandez can do before making a move.
Tellez should play 1B, maybe Drury, Mckinney, or Guerrero have some starts there.
Maybe Hernandez/Fisher are the top DH guys with most everybody else taking a start there for load management purpose.

scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#381705) #
I look at it like a sprain. The healing time depends on the severity.
What's important is to fully heal before resuming activity.
The severity itself does not fully determine the long time outcome.
Don't try to show it's mild by playing hurt.

Magpie - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#381706) #
Holy cow! A Luke Maile sighting!
bpoz - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#381707) #
Great catch by J Davis in the 9th to get B Gardner. He also saved Zeuch's No Hitter in Buffalo with a great catch.

He may make the team next year as the 26th player.
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 11:55 AM EDT (#381708) #
Already with 8 wins against the Yankees. 2 more and we win the season series. Make them hang their heads in shame.
Chuck - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#381709) #
Make them hang their heads in shame.

They are a 100-win team cruising into the playoffs, worrying about getting players rest and keeping them healthy. Probably not a lot of time for shame over some meaningless losses.

Chuck - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#381710) #
Today's ump has blown, what, about 50% of his calls so far? Maybe more? Just brutal.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#381711) #
They're making Zeuch looks like a strike out pitcher by taking everything.

The game plan must have been to make him bring the ball up.

Magpie - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#381712) #
Learning that young Vlad has never lifted a weight and never gone to a gym is encouraging, strangely enough.
uglyone - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#381713) #
Arash Madani @ArashMadani
11m
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. admitted to me: “I’ve never worked out at the gym before, I’ve never lifted weights before.” That, he says, will change this off-season, where he insists “my priority is definitely playing third.” Here's the full story, as we just shared on the broadcast --


man that's kinda crazy, and pretty dissappointing. though I guess it gives hope for serious improvement on the fitness side.
sam - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#381714) #
First time watching in a while. Have the Jays been this bad all year? Most of these guys are playing themselves off a big league roster. Had to turn it off.
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:40 PM EDT (#381715) #
They are a 100-win team cruising into the playoffs, worrying about getting players rest and keeping them healthy. Probably not a lot of time for shame over some meaningless losses.

Chuck those losses are far from meaningless. Yanks are in a battle with Houston for the extra home playoff game and the Dodgers if the both make the WS. And the only players getting rest seem to be the injured guys.

mathesond - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#381716) #
Have the Jays been this bad all year?

Well, their record is 63-91 coming into today...
mathesond - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#381717) #
And the only players getting rest seem to be the injured guys.

They have players who aren't injured?
uglyone - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#381718) #
How does an org allow it's top prospect to get through without spending any time in a gym?
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#381719) #
Agree uo. I've been saying for some time moving him to 1st so soon would take away his incentive for keeping his weight in check, though, wow, I didn't realize it was that bad. I thought it was mostly due to overeating.
rpriske - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#381720) #
Teoscar is a disaster out there today.
Chuck - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#381721) #
This Jeremie Rehak dude is new to me. He is a young umpire following in the footsteps of Angel Salazar, CB Bucknor and Joe West. Those are not good footsteps. He'd be better off flipping a coin back there than exercising his judgement.
Chuck - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#381722) #
Yanks are in a battle with Houston for the extra home playoff game

Yeah, I know, but it seems that teams, at the end of the year, don't prioritize that pursuit over resting their players and getting them ready for the post-season.

Magpie - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#381723) #
Teoscar is a disaster out there today.

It must be one of those days that ends in a "y".

That said, left field in Yankee Stadium has always been notoriously difficult, especially in the fall. The sun is right there in your face, and the new park is exactly the same as the old park. It's like 150 metres away, and it's got the same east-west orientation. "It gets late early out there" said the great Yogi.
Nigel - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#381725) #
We need more sophisticated defensive metrics for OFs. The current metrics don’t really capture how poor defensively that the Hernandez/ Fisher tree of OFs (excellent athlete but poor in baseball defensive skills) really is.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#381726) #
Some days, Hernandez can't see the ball at all.

Day game after a night game and 2 lefties in a row, so they give Maile a start.
That's fine, but no more please.

Boone is at his best when he gets ejected.
Early in the game, the strike zone was bad for both teams.

Magpie - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#381727) #
I think Andy Green is the first manager to walk the plank this season. Well, whoever San Diego gets to replace him has got to have the stones to sit Manny Machado down when he loafs on a groundball. He's the guy everyone's watching, the guy everyone takes their cues from.

I suppose the Pirates and Royals could be thinking it's time to move on from Clint Hurdle and Ned Yost, just because... it's time for a change. The Cubs seemed to have tuned out Joe Maddon. Don Mattingly and Brandon Hyde seem to be safe. I expect Rich Renteria and David Bell get at least another year. I'm a little surprised that Mickey Callaway made it to the end of the season, but he may have actually saved his job. It was a disaster in Colorado, but I don't think they're going to blame Bud Black because Kyle Freeland turned into a pumpkin.

So.. San Francisco and San Diego for sure need a new guy. Probably the Cubs.
Nigel - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#381728) #
To me, Hurdle and Yost are the most interesting calls. Pittsburg has had clubhouse problems for most of the year. I think they also have more talent than their record shows. I can't see Hurdle surviving. I suspect that Yost is safe for some time yet. He's had zero to work with all year.
John Northey - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 06:18 PM EDT (#381729) #
Some poor calls, but better than yesterday according to pitchFX on Brooks Baseball.

Yesterday West was idiotic with his zone - 2 painfully obvious strikes called balls, and 2 equally obvious balls called strikes (LH hitters) with 2 more balls called strikes that were in the gray zone (could be called either way based on what umps normally call). He wasn't as obviously bad vs RHH but 7 balls were called strikes that were close. Plus 2 pitches just above the strike zone in the exact same spot were given different calls (once a ball, once a strike).

Today's game saw LHH get 3 obvious balls called strikes (all low) with 2 more that were very close called strikes that were actually balls. RHH saw one obvious ball (high out of strike zone) called a strike with 4 other balls called strikes that were reasonably close. 2 clear strikes called balls, and 2 more on the edge called balls that should've been strikes.

Basically 2 games showing us umps who really make the case for robo umps behind the plate.
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#381730) #
The Pittsburg perspective is the only reason Hurdle (and GM Huntington) keep their jobs beyond this year is that they are both under contract through 2021 and cheapskate owner Bob Nutting hates paying people to not do their jobs.
scottt - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#381732) #
It's hard to compare bad calls.
A strike on a ball 5 inch outside has the same result as one on a pitch 1 inch outside.
Is it worse when it's the final ball or strike or when it's early and leads to a walk/strikeout/homerun?
Is it worse on a key hitter or on the 9th hitter?

It does affect the game and it's hard to put numbers on that.

Paul D - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#381733) #
Yost has already announced that he's not returning after this year. (Of interest to those of us who play fantasy baseball, because there are a lot of questions regarding how much a new manager will let the team steal).
hypobole - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 08:38 PM EDT (#381734) #
Paul, do you have any link to the Yost announcement, because I can't find anything on google.
Paul D - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#381735) #
You know what, I don't, and all i can find is that he just signed a one-year contract for this year. Must be an assumption, not an announcement - apologies for the confusion.
John Northey - Saturday, September 21 2019 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#381736) #
Scottt good points, but making a mistake on the edge of the zone we can all understand I think, making one on a pitch 5 inches off the plate is just plain incompetence.
scottt - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#381737) #
The Royals are still early in their rebuild.
Gordon might retire or come back for one year. He's not having too much fun and does not want to play anywhere else.
Merrifield would be a great player for a contender to acquire, but he's on a 4 year team friendly deal.
Duffy has 2 years left at 15M. It's not clear that they can get much for him.

85bluejay - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#381738) #
Would not surprise me if the Jays claimed Kean Wong
scottt - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#381739) #
King Wong?

The Jays claimed a backup SS in case Urena gets hurts.
I don't know if they could clam another one without losing coverage for a day.

No Guerrero today. Maybe so they don't rest him in Toronto against Baltimore.
This is a return to the April lineup.

Seattle won yesterday but the Pirates fell 9-1 to Miami.
Wade Miley has been horrible in September. Houston is ahead by only half a game.

hypobole - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#381740) #
Drury can back up Urena for a day.
Magpie - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 01:15 PM EDT (#381741) #
Hey, Atkins got himself some new spectacles!
scottt - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#381742) #
Painful start.
Chuck - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#381743) #
Yanks up to 298 HR. Could they reach 300 by the end of the day?
rpriske - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#381744) #
I have to say it, but I think they got the call right. His foot was off the base.
Chuck - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#381745) #
Jays now have 13 players with 10+ HR. Yankees have been at 13 for a while. Maybin has a chance to become #14.
scottt - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#381746) #
Mariners lost again and the Pirates are down by 4.

Jays, Mariners and Pirates will all play their last 6 games at home.

I expect the Mariners to lose all 6 (Houston and A's).
The Pirates should be able to win at least one (Cubs and Reds)

John Northey - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#381747) #
13 in double digits, 6 are rookies (Tellez, Jansen, Bo, Vlad, Biggio, McKinney). Crazy. Next closest are 5 each for Fisher and McGuire. Doubt either will get 5 more.
Mike Green - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#381748) #
Tangotiger has a look on Twitter at Biggio's pattern of swinging in the Heart, Shadow, Chase and Waste portions of the strike zone. Tango's verdict: "what a brilliant hitter".

Here is the Biggio chart from Baseball Savant:
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/visuals/swing-take?playerId=624415&playerSet=hitters&year=2019


scottt - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#381749) #
Reminds me of Buck's claim that a pitcher need to command his fastball in all 9 quadrants.
8 quadrants, maybe? But 9?

uglyone - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#381750) #
Poor Keith Law.
bpoz - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#381751) #
Agreed UO. K Law if wrong, needs to be roasted. Of course he may like that. Good publicity.
cascando - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#381752) #
Law recently doubled down on his "Biggio is not worth a roster spot" take, saying "don't let a cycle fool you" in response to a Ben Nicholson-Smith Tweet. The BNS tweet in question: "After last night's cycle Cavan Biggio has a .786 OPS on the season. 14 HR in 89 games. 13/13 SB. Four defensive positions. 2.6 WAR. Under-the-radar strong rookie season."

When someone pointed out that the tweet was about more than a cycle, including mentioning 2.6 WAR, law said "I stand by my statement" [that Biggio isn't worth a roster spot.]

Some people have an incredibly hard time admitting when they're wrong. It's not a good look at any time, but I don't know why Law goes around chasing this kind of attention.
dan gordon - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 11:15 PM EDT (#381753) #
That Biggio chart is interesting. He certainly swings a lot less than other hitters. He takes a higher % of pitches that are in the heart of the strike zone than league average. He takes a much higher % of what they are calling shadow pitches, which are pitches that are strikes, but not in the heart of the plate, plus pitches just outside the zone. I'm still unconvinced that he shouldn't be swinging the bat just a little bit more. Great that he almost never swings at pitches they are calling "chase" or "waste".

I don't know how you can say that a 24 year old middle infielder who has a .790 OPS and 2.5 WAR in only 93 games isn't even worthy of a roster spot. That's just being obstinate in the face of contrary evidence. Biggio's even a young 24 - he will still be 24 on opening day next year. With a couple more years of development, he could very well be a 30 HR, .875 OPS, 20 SB, decent fielding 2nd baseman, and even if he doesn't get quite that far, he's still a very good regular. Since June 13th, 79 games, roughly half a season, he's at .247/.364/.460/.825 with 11 SB's and 14 HR's, with 56 runs scored, a stat he could lead the league in at some point.
John Northey - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 11:44 PM EDT (#381754) #
Interesting charts....
Biggio: -7 swing, +22 take
Vlad -19 swing, +28 take
Bo: -4 swing, +9 take
Gurriel: -5 swing, +16 take

Waste: 7% Vlad, 3% Biggio, 13% Bo, 8% Gurriel
Chase: 24% Vlad, 8% Biggio, 33% Bo, 37% Gurriel
Shadow: 52% Vlad, 36% Biggio, 61% Bo, 59% Gurriel
Heart: 80% Vlad, 71% Biggio, 78% Bo, 71% Gurriel

Bit of a surprise to see Gurriel and Biggio are the same for swinging at the heart of the plate. Clearly we have an exceptional young core here vs the past. I'd hate to see how ugly these would be for the 1984 crew of kids - Bell, Garcia, Fernandez, all known for swinging (and getting hits) off of pitches in the dirt. I think I read somewhere that the big 3 of Vlad/Biggio/Bo are competing on strike zone judgement (swinging at the really bad ones) which seems like Biggio will win easily but I like the idea of Vlad and Bo seeing that it is important to learn the zone.
hypobole - Sunday, September 22 2019 @ 11:55 PM EDT (#381755) #
So today's loss officially doomed Mike's BGs bet. Even winning out would put the Jays 1 game under in the 2nd half.

That said, I took a look at wins since the AS break. Jays are at 30, just behind the Red Sox and Phillies 32. Teams with fewer than 30 wins since the break? 11 of them.

Tigers 18, Marlins/Pirates 21,Rockies 23, Orioles 24, Padres/Angels 25, Royals/Mariners/White Sox/Rangers 27.

Just waiting for people to mock the FO for not even being able to tank properly.
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#381756) #
Whoops, Jays with 29 wins since the break, not 30.
John Northey - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 07:23 AM EDT (#381757) #
Interesting to see the Jays record by month.

March 2-2 500 (2011 Jays)
April 12-13 480 (1982 Jays)
May: 7-21 250 (1962 Mets pace)
June: 10-17 370 (1978 Jays)
July: 12-14 462 (2009 Jays)
August: 12-15 444 (2012 Jays)
September: 8-11 421 (2004 Jays)

So only March was 500 but just 4 games. May/June killed the team. I put the pace each month was on vs Jays teams, although the 250 mark is dead on the infamous 120 loss Mets team.

After 81 games the Jays were 29-52 (366 - 23 games back). Since then they are 34-41 (446 - 15 1/2 back, 13 behind the wild card). So they still have ground to make up but are trending better.

Lots of improvement needed - mostly pitching, but also need to figure out CF/1B/DH. I'd say LF/RF/3B/SS/2B/CA are locked in stone for 2020.
Mike Green - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 08:39 AM EDT (#381758) #
So today's loss officially doomed Mike's BGs bet.

Yep.  It would have been nice to go down with more BGs than Biggio and Breyvic.

I am interested in the reasons for an opinion that Cavan Biggio is not worth a roster spot.  I understand why some people may have felt that way after 2018, but I don't get it after 2019. 
scottt - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 08:40 AM EDT (#381759) #
The Year has been a wandering through the desert in searches of answers.

Gurriel had an OPS .525 in April March.

Guerrero came up at the end of April for 4 games OPS 639.
He had an OPS of .802 in May.  Drury to Guerrero is the biggest improvement the team has made.
Yet they had a terrible May.
Gurriel came back up for 7 games at the end of May. OPS 1.378
Biggio came up at the end of May for 6 games with an OPS of .760.

In June Guerrero had an OPS of .696,  Biggio .820 and Gurriel 1.063.

July, Guerrero .825, Biggio .638, Gurriel .775.
Bichette came up for 3 games with an OPS of 1.269.

August, Guerrero .977, Biggo .743, Bichette .974,  Gurriel only 7 games for .555

September, Guerrero .618 Biggio 1.029, Bichette .778, Gurriel only 5 games for .723

The April success where mostly due to strong pitching.

Stroman went 6-11 with an ERA of 2.96.
Sanchez went 3-14 with an ERA of 6.07.
Richard went 1-5 with an ERA of 5.96.
Jackson went 1-5 with an ERA of 11.12. (Argh)
Waguespack is 4-5 with an ERA of 4.75.
Pannone is 3-5 with an ERA of 5.99.
SRF is 2-4 with an ERA of 4.26.
Shoemaker is 3-0 with an ERA of 1.57.
Zeuch is 1-1 with an ERA of 4.58.
Kay is 1-0 with an ERA of 5.79.
Borucki is 0-1 with an ERA of 10.80.

If the pitching gets good enough, Davis in center field might be sufficient.
If Connine keeps hitting (it will be interesting to see what happens when he gets to hit juiced balls) he'll end up in right field, but not next year. He's a left bat.
I think Alford gets a last shot, but they seem to like having extra left bats and McKinney showed up why yesterday.
Although, he did it against lefties.
Urena is holding his own so far.



85bluejay - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 09:17 AM EDT (#381760) #
I disagree with keith Law's opinion that Cavan Biggio is not worth a roster spot but I have no problems with him not changing his opinion after a productive half season by Biggio - he didn't change his opinion of Tellez after Tellez's excellent September last year - now if Biggio has a productive 2020 season then he may want to re-evaluate his opinion - Law did recently write a piece about prospects he was wrong about.
greenfrog - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 09:32 AM EDT (#381761) #
Two reasons why Biggio’s 2019 hitting performance is more impressive than Tellez’s Sept. 2018 performance: BABIP and walk rate (even with the questionable umpiring).
uglyone - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 09:41 AM EDT (#381762) #
and position.
Mike Green - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 09:42 AM EDT (#381763) #
Biggio has played the entire season in 2019.  He dominated triple A, and increased his line drive rate significantly.  He continued that, and improved that even further, in the big leagues in 2019.  As of this moment, there seem to be four features to his offensive game- elite strike zone judgment, medium range power, ability to hit line drives and not pop-up.  And his game, of course, has a lot more to it than batting. 

One of the problems with twitter is that it does not encourage a thoughtful discussion.  I'm not intending to disparage Keith Law.  He may have good reasons for his opinion, but I'd like to see them.  The situation for Biggio at the end of 2019 is not the same as it was at the end of 2018.  For one thing, he hadn't put up a 13-0 SB/CS rate in the major leagues.  Maybe it's Biggio's age, or his poor performance before 2018.  Or maybe, it's something about his swing that Law feels pitchers will learn to exploit.  I sure haven't seen anything.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#381764) #
Is K Law equally hard on every teams prospects?
uglyone - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 10:12 AM EDT (#381765) #
keith law is particularly bad when it comes to jays prospects, which started with his sour experience with the jays and then flourished due to the overwhelming presence of jays fans on the internet, and i find it funny that people still are actually in denial about this.

always remember, keith law is not a baseball player, not a scout, not anything but a guy who could crunch numbers back in college.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 10:34 AM EDT (#381766) #
Thanks UO.

I am thinking along the same lines as he is. Getting hits on his blog. We know that 80% of prospects don't make it, so IMO being negative about that 80% is a winning strategy.

If a Vlad or Bo show up as Jay's prospects he needs to be careful about being too negative. ie don't like a Jay being #1, Vlad, then put him in at #2-5 and harp on his defense.
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 10:35 AM EDT (#381767) #
Actually he was a scout, but not a good scout. And he doesn't hate everything Jays. He loved the Logan Warmoth pick back in 2017.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 11:02 AM EDT (#381768) #
Really hypobole!! Now I have to put Warmoth into my top 30. #25 will do.
uglyone - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#381769) #
when was he a scout?
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#381770) #
He learned scouting when he was with the Jays. His big "find" was Ryan Roberts.

Wikipedia:

"During his time with the Blue Jays, he acted as a major league and minor league scout, contract negotiator, and provided assistance to the team's marketing and sales staffs"
James W - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#381771) #
ie don't like a Jay being #1, Vlad, then put him in at #2-5 and harp on his defense.

Having Vladimir Guerrero Jr. at #2 on his prospects list was not because he didn't want a Blue Jay at #1. He thought Fernando Tatis Jr. was a better prospect, and so far, he certainly is.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#381772) #
Thanks James W. Tatis is a good choice.

I was thinking that he may like to give lower ranking to Jays prospects as an emotional preference.

Time will tell who are the great ones based on injury and performance. The test would be over a few years. I do not expect anyone to evaluate 100% correctly.

I think Bo will beat many prospects ahead of him if healthy. I also think nobody will remember or care.
uglyone - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#381773) #
eh, "scouting" was sort of in his mix of duties, but he was never an actual scout.

here's how he described his duties himself, in 2004:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100826083517/http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/mbapremium/aug2004/bs20040824_9157_PG2_bs046.htm
Glevin - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#381774) #
Big differ nice between Biggio and Tellez. Tellez was clearly going to regress after 73 PAs with not great underlying numbers and only a pretty good year in AAA. Biggio has played pretty much a full season with numbers that are supported by what he did as a prospect. I like Law sometimes. He’s smart and calls bs on somethings but he’s also spectacularly stubborn for no reason at times.
Paul D - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 12:27 PM EDT (#381775) #
It's now official, Yost stepping down after the year
rpriske - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 01:36 PM EDT (#381776) #
Law putting Tatis first is defensible, but I will say that he got REALLY mad when I disagreed with him on twitter at the time.

It was kind of odd. I mean, who am I? Why does he care so much that I disagreed with him?

bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#381777) #
I got to listen to J Blair and K Barker a little.

I love Barker and his understanding of the game. Over several shows he has praised A Kay for high velocity and pitching inside to both LH and RH batters. For Bo's hitting he mentioned elite bat speed as the major factor. Bo has it because of his youth.

Somebody, I cannot remember who said Vlad has good bat speed as well and that he should wait longer before committing because right now he can catch up to anything. Of course that is maybe V hard to do.
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#381778) #
I like Joe Siddal best. I once pointed out something I liked in a post, and later Joe came on air and pointed out the same thing. My favourite people are those who agree with me.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#381779) #
I like people, especially on da Box who explain to me what is going on!!

Only this morning I figured out BGs. Bichette, Biggio ... Guerrero and Gurriel.
bpoz - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#381780) #
Next year, 2020 I will start the season with high hopes and then expect mid 80s in wins.

The pen will be something that I will concentrate on. In our last 2 games Stewart and Font gave up 4 Earned Runs in 1 inning. That basically lost the game for us. Our radio announcers gave praise for Gaviglio as being a valuable reliever. I agreed but checked his game by game results and then changed my mind. Of course maybe he came in and pitched 3 innings in a close game and was v good so that the team (2nd half) could come back and win.
Mike Green - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#381781) #
One more thing about Biggio.  Durability for a second baseman is a big deal, and  Biggio has played constantly since being drafted.  Obviously some of that is pure luck, but his attention to detail and focused approach help him stay out of some situations that could be dangerous. 
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 04:00 PM EDT (#381782) #
Just checked in on the uninspiring Jays AFL crew. Kevin Smith maybe the only noteworthy player, just not in a good way. His 10 K's (in 16 AB's!) leads the entire league. And he hasn't walked once.
Mike Green - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#381783) #
VGJ has clarified that he has lifted weights before- just not last off-season when he did other workouts in the DR such as flipping tires.  He says that he is a little tired now, after 800 innings in 94 games at third base over the season and 22 starts at DH. 
dan gordon - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#381784) #
There are 55 players in mlb who have hit at least 30 HR's so far this season. Of those, the name of the player with the best HR to AB ratio was quite a surprise to me. The player who is most likely to hit a HR in an AB is not Trout, Alonso, Bellinger, Yelich, Cruz, Arenado, Acuna, or any of the big names. It's a guy who didn't even have a full time starting job at the start of the season. Mitch Garver. He's averaging fewer than 10 AB's per HR. Actually, you can go all the way down to guys with 10 HR's for the season, and still not find a player who hits HR's as frequently as Garver, who was a 26 year old rookie in 2017 and got 46 AB's, and hit .196 with no home runs.
Nigel - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#381786) #
Biggio's 2.2 fWAR is 95th among all position players in all of MLB (min 400 PAs). There are only 65 3 WAR position players in all of baseball. To say that he isn't deserving of a roster spot is pretty ridiculous. It wouldn't require much improvement from him in 2020 to make the discussion about whether he's an All Star or not.
uglyone - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#381787) #
I welcome Keith exposing himself as the troll he's always been.
hypobole - Monday, September 23 2019 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#381788) #
KLaw is the Donald Trump of prospect analysts.
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