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Features Boston at Toronto, 10-12 Sep.
Well, at least it's not a first place team. It's just the defending champs.


The title defense hasn't gone too well, and team president Dave Dombrowski has just walked the plank after three first place finishes and a World Series title. That's a high bar, indeed, although I still think the gold standard would be the Yankees firing their manager after losing the seventh game of the World Series. Twice, in five years.

The Red Sox are leaking all kinds of stories about how the Dombrowski regime had become thoroughly dysfunctional. I think they were just afraid he was going to give Mookie Betts $500 million dollars next week. He had to be stopped!

Let's talk about power. The AL slugging percentage, at this very moment, is .439 - which is pretty high. It's not the highest ever. It doesn't match 1996 or 2000; it doesn't match the NL slugging percentage of .448 back in 1930.

However - the Isolated Power put up by the AL this year is indeed the highest in league history. (Isolated Power is extra bases per at bat, and if you don't like doing that kind of fancy division, just subtract the batting average from the slugging percentage.) The AL Isolated Power this season is .186, which is considerably higher than the previous high of .173, which we saw all the way back in 2017.

So, knowing what the league average is - what kind of power do this year's Jays have, relative to the league average?

It's Data Table Time!

Name                     G    PA    AB    R    H    2B  3B   HR  RBI  SB  CS   BB    SO  BAVG   OBP  SLG    OPS  OPS+  TB   GDP  HBP SH  SF  IBB  ISO
                                                                                                    
Bo Bichette             37   170   161   25    50   15   0   10   17   3   4    9    41  .311  .347  .590  .937  144    95    1   0   0   0   0  .279
Lourdes Gurriel Jr.     79   321   294   50    82   18   2   19   47   6   4   20    79  .279  .331  .548  .879  130   161    4   4   1   2   0  .269
Reese McGuire           19    64    62    8    19    3   0    4    7   0   0    1    12  .306  .317  .548  .866  126    34    1   0   0   0   0  .242
Derek Fisher            28    81    71   12    12    2   0    5    9   1   0   10    31  .169  .272  .408  .680   79    29    2   0   0   0   0  .239
Teoscar Hernandez      111   406   366   51    79   16   1   21   53   4   3   38   136  .216  .291  .437  .728   92   160    6   1   0   1   1  .221
Randal Grichuk         134   557   517   64   119   24   4   25   64   2   1   34   146  .230  .282  .437  .719   89   226   17   4   0   2   0  .207
Rowdy Tellez            96   349   319   39    70   15   0   17   45   1   1   22   100  .219  .281  .426  .707   86   136    9   6   0   2   3  .207
Justin Smoak           111   460   378   51    80   14   0   20   55   0   0   76    96  .212  .350  .407  .757  103   154   10   5   0   1   1  .195
Billy McKinney          71   241   221   30    47   14   1    9   23   0   2   14    63  .213  .264  .407  .671   76    90    0   2   2   2   0  .194
AL AVERAGE             144  5525  4950  703  1254  258  23  206  670  68  26  468  1261  .253  .323  .439  .762  100  2173  103  55  15  36  16  .186
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.  109   450   402   49   111   24   2   15   61   0   1   45    77  .276  .351  .458  .809  115   184   15   2   0   1   0  .182
Freddy Galvis          115   473   450   55   120   24   1   18   54   4   1   21   112  .267  .299  .444  .743   96   200   11   0   1   1   1  .177
Eric Sogard             73   323   287   45    86   17   2   10   30   6   0   29    47  .300  .363  .477  .840  123   137    2   1   3   3   0  .177
Cavan Biggio            83   352   290   48    60   13   0   12   35  10   0   59   102  .207  .342  .376  .718   94   109    0   1   0   1   0  .169
Brandon Drury          110   406   381   37    84   18   1   14   40   0   0   21   103  .220  .261  .383  .644   70   146    6   1   0   3   0  .163
Danny Jansen           101   358   323   36    66   12   1   12   42   0   0   29    72  .204  .277  .359  .636   69   116    7   4   1   1   0  .155
Luke Maile              41   120   111    9    17    2   1    2    9   1   0    7    29  .153  .203  .243  .447   20    27    1   0   2   0   0  .090
Jonathan Davis          21    63    61    3    10    1   0    1    3   2   1    2    15  .164  .190  .230  .420   12    14    1   0   0   0   0  .066


So there.

Matchups? Well, the Red Sox are starting Nathan Eovaldi tonight, and they'll worry about tomorrow... tomorrow.
Posted by Magpie on Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 03:30 PM EDT.
Boston at Toronto, 10-12 Sep. | 160 comments | Create New Account
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Mike Green - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#381166) #
Love those Data Tables.  It's funny to see VGJ below league average in IsoP, but not worrying. Indeed, the Blue Jays below the league average in IsoP probably contributed more to the club than those above the league average.  That would be unusual.

I liked the Eovaldi signing by the Sox.  So far, it looks like another red checkmark in my L column.


[ Reply to This ]
scottt - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#381168) #
Guerrero is a ground ball/linedrive hitter.

That will probably not change. He'll probably get better, maybe just by anticipating pitches.

Some of the other hitters chase too much or don't hunt for fastballs early in the count like they should.
I think a guy like Tellez can improve but a guy like Drury probably won't.

It's important to remember that guys like Tauchman and Urshella figured it out, so I guess anyone can. not
Defense can improve too, with practice, but the prospects had years to work on this in the minors.
The difference now it that they're shifting a lot more, which does not impact outfielders much.

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bpoz - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 07:03 PM EDT (#381170) #
I cannot figure the numbers out.

So we are good?
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Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#381171) #
In regards to the outfielders, I think the Jays are targeting players with power and they are trying to work on the discipline after. It is the formula that worked with the Smoak breakout, but who knows if it can happen again. I put together some discipline numbers today:

(140+ PA, 396 total batters)

O-Swing%
#01 Biggio 15.0%
#20 Derek Fisher 22.2%
#27 Smoak 22.9%
#157 Jansen 29.8%
#178 Vladdy 30.5%
#183 Teoscar 30.7%
#190 McKinney 30.9%

SwStr%:
#73 Biggio 8.3%
#106 Jansen 9.0%
#112 Smoak 9.1%
#169 Vladdy 10.4%
#214 McKinney 11.3%
#260 Fisher 12.1%
#351 Teoscar 15.0%

Biggio is simply on another level, but Fisher's ability to lay off pitches outside the zone is an interesting building block as him as a hitter.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 07:46 PM EDT (#381172) #
Article on the scouting and signing of Bichette:

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/simmons-the-fight-to-bring-bo-bichette-to-the-blue-jays
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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 08:11 PM EDT (#381173) #
Someone on the Twitter noted that young Vlad had already made 16 errors at 3b. In his time as a Blue Jay, Edwin Encarnacion - known as E5 during his days at the corner - never made more than 18.

Which is true, so I had to go scrolling through the record to see what it all meant.

Edwin really picked up that nickname in Cincinnati, where he had seasons making 25 and 23 errors at 3b, something no Jays third baseman has ever done. He made 18 errors at 3b in 2010 and needed just 95 games to do it. The following season he made 8 errors in 36 games (fielding percentage - .892!) and never played 3b again.

Anyway, I now know the team record for errors at each position, and naturally I have to share:

 c - 13 Cerone 1979, Borders 1993
1b - 21 Upshaw 1983
2b - 16 Garcia 1980
3b - 22 Howell 1978, Gruber 1990, Hinske 2003
ss - 37 Griffin 1980 (Alfredo had 36 in 1979 and an amazing 31 in 1981. Which was the strike year.)
lf - 15 Bell 1988
cf - 13 Bosetti 1979
rf - 12 Carter 1991
 p - 8 Jefferson 1977

Nolan Ryan, possibly the worst fielding pitcher of the 20th century, matched Jefferson's total twice.
[ Reply to This ]
Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#381174) #
Fun fact: three times the Jays went through an entire season with 0 errors at a position. Vernon Wells accounts for two of those seasons - Jays CF made no errors in 2005 and 2010. The other one... no one will ever, ever guess.
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Gerry - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#381175) #
It will be tough to have TJ Zeuch pitching for the Jays with Vlad at third and Biggio at second. He needs a premium infield.
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Shoeless Joe - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 08:47 PM EDT (#381176) #
Zeuch's control is a bigger issue, and boy does he give up hard contact. He had 11 balls with an exit velocity greater than 95 mph.
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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#381177) #
And now each of the Three Sons has made an outstanding play in the field. Go figure.
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Chuck - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#381178) #
And now each of the Three Sons has made an outstanding play in the field.

Not these three sons?

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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#381179) #
Hell no!

Devers has 50 doubles? Yikes.
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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 09:24 PM EDT (#381180) #
OK, either Devers or Bogaerts will lead the AL in doubles this year. And whichever one does will become the 16th Red Sox player to do so. I detect a Ballpark Effect, folks.

Just three Yankees have led the league in doubles. That could also be a Ballpark Effect, or they may just feel that hitting doubles is beneath them.
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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#381181) #
That's 16 different Red Sox players, several of whom led the league more than once (Yaz three times, Speaker, Teddy, Reggie Smith, Boggs twice.) The others were Earl Webb (67 - all time record), Cronin, Jimmie Piersall (really?), Lynn, Valentin (really??), Jody Reed (really???), Nomar, Rat-Boy, Beltre, Ortiz (at age 40).

The three Yankees were Gehrig (twice), Red Rolfe, and Mattingly.
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hypobole - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#381182) #
Did Dan Shulman just say Biagini is the 1st Astro reliever ever to give up 6 runs without recording an out?
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Magpie - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#381183) #
Biagini's inning, Astros trailing 11-2:

Profar walk
Murphy home run, 13-2
Grossman double
Semien home run, 15-2
Chapman single
Olson home run, 17-2

Man. That'll goose the old ERA.
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Gerry - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 10:36 PM EDT (#381184) #
Incredibly quick release by McGuire on the steal attempt in the ninth.
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SK in NJ - Tuesday, September 10 2019 @ 10:50 PM EDT (#381185) #
Zeuch has a very tough road ahead of him to become a big league SP, especially in the AL East.
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dan gordon - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 12:33 AM EDT (#381186) #
That's an interesting Sun article by Steve Simmons about scouting/drafting Bichette. Atkins instructing the scouts that they didn't want high school position players, and the scouts arguing for Bichette. The scouts liked Bichette way better than Woodman, who was taken by the Jays before Bichette, and who is now out of baseball. This is priceless: "Two months after Bo Bichette was drafted, scouting director Brian Parker, who fought for the selection, was fired".

I liked Zeuch's slow curve - he should throw that more. His stuff seems kind of mediocre, although he threw a few sliders that looked pretty good - I think he needs to sharpen up his command to be really effective.

Shafer looked good, I thought. Fastball at 95 with some movement, decent 2nd pitch. Sure hope they don't drop him from the 40 man in favour of a guy like Drury.

Oh how I hate that bunt in the 6th inning. Guy at 2nd base, nobody out, and in this case a pitcher on the mound with a 6.42 ERA and a 1.90 WHIP, and you're bunting? Even on a 2-0 and 3-1 count? I know Davis isn't a good hitter at all, but is he THAT bad?

Terrible news for the Brewers. Yelich fouled a ball off his leg and broke his kneecap, out for the season. Yikes.
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hypobole - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 01:08 AM EDT (#381187) #
Whose idea was it it to take Woodman over another college guy i.e. Brian Reynolds?
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Glevin - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 02:53 AM EDT (#381188) #
"That's an interesting Sun article by Steve Simmons about scouting/drafting Bichette. Atkins instructing the scouts that they didn't want high school position players, and the scouts arguing for Bichette. The scouts liked Bichette way better than Woodman, who was taken by the Jays before Bichette, and who is now out of baseball. This is priceless: "Two months after Bo Bichette was drafted, scouting director Brian Parker, who fought for the selection, was fired"."

Of all the criticisms of the front office, this is officially the dumbest (so no surprise that Simmons is spewing it).

1) This front office drafted Bichette. Maybe they liked other people more but they listened to their scouts and in the end, they drafted the right guy. Trying to take credit away from drafting him because they weren't high on him originally is absurd.
2) Parker's drafts were not good even with the Bichette pick. His drafts from 2013 until 2016 were mostly bad. The 2013 draft was OK because it "hit" on a lot of later picks (Tellez, Jansen, Davis). The 2014 draft was terrible. 3 top-50 picks and not getting anything out of it. 2015 draft was dreadful. I don't think there's a single major leaguer they got from it (Maese, Bergen, and McClelland are best). 2016 draft was better because Bichette himself makes a draft class, Biggio looks like he could be something, and there are a few prospects still there like Chavez Young and Zeuch. It's not like Parker did some incredible job that made firing him some massive offense.

And the Simmons article makes it seem like Atkins made them draft Woodman rather than just preferring college players in general. There were five college position players taken between Woodman and Bichette. Sheldon Neuse, a 40+ FV prospect with Oakland, Ronnie Dawson a 40+ FV prospect with Houston, and Nick Solak who is a 50 FV prospects in the majors off to a great start with the Rangers. Oh, also Brian Reynolds and Pete Alonso who have combined for 7 WAR this season as rookies. So the scouts were not responsible for picking the worst college player which is on Atkins but then totally responsible for picking Bichette even though Atkins had the final say. It's such a stupid narrative. The front office has to own the players it drafts so it made a bad pick with Woodman and a great pick with Bichette. That's it.
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scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 06:47 AM EDT (#381189) #
It's a really weird article. It's very critical of success.

Where are the articles critical of the truly awful draft choices made in other years?
It says Woodman is out of baseball instead of saying he was traded for Diaz/Thorton.
It's critical of signing college players but doesn't say that Biggio was drafted 2 rounds after Bichette.

Maybe they were focused on college players because they were in a rush to restock the depleted farm system?
The next year they got Pearson and the college catcher Adams looks better than the HS pitcher Danner.
Yes, they replaced the scouts and draft director, but they signed Groshans and Kloff, 2 high schooler, as soon as they got a better draft position.
Maybe Atkins wasn't big on Bichette, but the other 29 GM passed on him multiple times as well.

In 2015 Toronto drafted John Harris, Brady Singer, Justin Maese, Carl Wise, Espeda, Cardenas. Travis Bergen is the only big leaguer so far.
In 2014, they got Hoffman, Pentecost, SRF, ... Justin Shafer in the 8th round. Romano in the 10th.

The Drafting under Shapiro/Atkins has been very solid. 

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scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 06:51 AM EDT (#381190) #
It was a close game. They didn't want to replace Davis and weaken the defense. They were right in thinking it they needed just one more run. What I didn't like about it is not being able to cash the runner at 3rd.
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scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 06:54 AM EDT (#381191) #
Biagini is a non-tender candidate, but he could have a ring by then.
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scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 07:02 AM EDT (#381192) #
Zeuch missed high on a lot of pitches and got away with it most of the time.
He called it a "subpar" game. Almost good enough for the win.

He's not going to strike out a lot but he does get the ball on the ground and should be able to suppress the long ball.
Considering Boston is a team that gets on base and steals a lot, it wasn't too bad. A C maybe?
Let's see what he does against the Yankees who are good sinker hitters.

McGuire as been so good.
He's obviously not going to hit like this, but the defense, the framing, the game calling are all real.
He's so much better than Maile.

[ Reply to This ]
scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 07:07 AM EDT (#381193) #
Tellez is the Smoak comparable. He said he should be able to hit 30 HRs a year, with a  linedrive swing and that he hopes to improves his discipline as he plays more regularly. Will see if the Jays buy into that.
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ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:00 AM EDT (#381194) #
It was mentioned on the broadcast last night how high the percentage of runs the Jays scored this year was produced via home runs. I don't remember if it was a team record or MLB in general high, but at the start of the season you wouldn't have expected the Jays to still be a bombs-away type of team.
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Jevant - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:17 AM EDT (#381195) #
LF in the Catalanotto/Menechino era?
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Jevant - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#381196) #
It's a stupid narrative and a poorly written article, misleading and typical Simmons drivel.
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Gerry - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:05 AM EDT (#381197) #
While watching the game last night I was thinking that Guerrero should be moved off third before next season. Why wait? He is never going to be a good third baseman and by continuing to play him there the team is costing itself runs and wins. Don't re-sign Smoak, move Vlad over and figure out a replacement at third base who can play the position.

The only reason to wait is if you think Vlad can be better, I don't think he can be much better than he is now.
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uglyone - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#381198) #
i have always felt it was a waste of time, gerry.

the best case scenario has always been that he improves to maybe passable for a year or two before his body forces a move again - best case - and i just don't see how that's something worth hoping for.

and while he's not ideal for 1B at least his lack of range would be much less of an issue there.

[ Reply to This ]
uglyone - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:13 AM EDT (#381199) #
island boy - imo power was always going to be the one good thing about this lineup, i think. hits and Ks were always going to be weaknesses.
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Chuck - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:15 AM EDT (#381200) #
you wouldn't have expected the Jays to still be a bombs-away type of team

This is now officially a bombs away type of league. Heading into the season, the team record for HR was 267 in the AL and 249 in the NL.

Three teams have, or are on pace, to break the AL record: Yankees, Twins, Astros.

Four teams have, or are on pace, to break the NL record: Dodgers, Braves, Cubs, Brewers.

The MLB league-wide record, set in 2017, is 6105. This year's pace is 6806, an 11% increase.

[ Reply to This ]
Jonny German - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#381201) #
Shi Davidi reports on Twitter that the Jays are sending Graham Spraker, Mike Ellenbest, and Maverick Buffo to the AFL. What's up with that? Are there really no prospects that could use some work?
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Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#381202) #
LF in the Catalanotto/Menechino era?

Very close. Right position, wrong year.
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Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:39 AM EDT (#381203) #
I was thinking that Guerrero should be moved off third before next season. Why wait?

Agreed. Presumably they're just waiting for Groshans, but I think I'd rather see Vlad at 1b and Drury at 3b until then.
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SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#381204) #
Agreed Gerry. Vlad at third always seemed like a short-term position for him, but if in that time he's hemorrhaging negative value on the defensive end, then how much sense does it really make even short-term? Seems more logical to move him to 1B now (meaning 2020) let him develop there defensively, and then find a short-term solution at third until a prospect is up. Moustakas signed a 1/11 deal this past winter. Even on a 2 year deal with similar AAV he'd have value on the Jays, just as an example. Drury looks like an above average 3B but he can't seem to hit. There will be 3B options out there until Groshans or Martinez or whoever is available from the system. Instead we are likely going to see Vlad at third and Tellez at first, and I just don't see much upside there (Vlad on D and Tellez at the plate).
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whiterasta80 - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#381205) #
Fully agree its time to move Vlad off of 3B. Shuffle him between 1B and DH next year.

That said, there's not much in Free agency beyond Rendon and Donaldson. As much as I'd love either of those options we need to spend on pitching.
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Mike Green - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:59 AM EDT (#381206) #
I agree that VGJ should be moved, whether to first base or DH.  However, Groshans has played only six weeks in A ball.  At this point, his ETA is probably 2022. 

Drury now has 1500 PAs in his career and he is precisely at replacement value (that takes a fair bit of work).  So, if you sign someone like Rendon, he's worth probably 8-10 WAR to you over 2020-21.  If you can't sign Rendon, then you definitely need an everyday third baseman.  Josh Donaldson is a free agent, but probably wouldn't return here.  Even someone like Asdrubal Cabrera would be better than Drury on a one-year deal. 
[ Reply to This ]
Chuck - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#381207) #
While watching the game last night I was thinking that Guerrero should be moved off third before next season.

I haven't followed as closely as in years past, but has anyone in the media or the organization even hinted at this? As little as I value the opinions of Buck and Pat, I sense that they sometimes serve as Rogers shills. Have they ever opined that Guerrero may not be a major league third baseman?

[ Reply to This ]
Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#381208) #
Not that I've heard.
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Marc Hulet - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#381209) #
For pitchers in the AFL, most teams prefer to tinker with and get extra innings from their stronger prospects in the fall instructional league, rather than the AFL where teams have less control over their players.

For Vladdy, they likely wont decide anything until next spring at the earliest. This is really the first time he's faced adversity so they probably want him to go home and show what type of player/person he really is... is he happy to coast on his natural ability, or have the struggles convinced him to spend the off-season shedding pounds and getting into better baseball shape like his friend Bo?
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Gerry - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#381210) #
The media consensus seems to be leave him at third for one more year, maybe two.
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electric carrot - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#381211) #
I agree with the media consensus. Give him a chance to improve. It's year one. He's 20.
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hypobole - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:54 AM EDT (#381212) #
"is he happy to coast on his natural ability, or have the struggles convinced him to spend the off-season shedding pounds and getting into better baseball shape like his friend Bo?"

Wholeheartedly agree this is the critical component. The "he's 20" argument cuts both ways. If he were in optimal shape, leaving him at 3rd would be a no-brainer in my opinion. But a 20 year old in such poor shape for an athlete is troublesome at least and doesn't bode well for his ability to avoid injury, his ability to play the position and especially his commitment in general.
[ Reply to This ]
Mike Green - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#381213) #
VGJ had 877 innings at third base at age 18, 824 innings at age 19 and 803 so far at age 20.  It's not a good pattern.  He has three issues- fielding ability at the position, fitness and injury. 

The organization, of course, favours the half-assed approach to him- playing him just over half-time at third base because of injury/DH time.  If they really believe that he's going to be a third baseman, challenge him to be in shape at the outset of the year and give him 1300 innings in the field, with occasional days off and DH time.  It's time for commitment, one way or the other. 
[ Reply to This ]
John Northey - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#381214) #
Might be time for a reality check again...
sOPS+ by position (OPS+ vs league OPS+ at that position, based on how they hit while playing there) Listing everyone with over 5 games at a position.

100+ (above average)
SS 103 - Bo at 136, Galvis 84.
That's it for positions above average. Ick.

90's (eyeshot of average)
2B 98 - Sogard at 120, Biggio 98, Drury 72
LF 96 - Gurriel 125, McKinney 95, Drury 92, Fisher 82, Hernanez 48.
CF 91 - Hernandez 117 (820 OPS...guess he likes it in CF), Grichuk 97, Davis 31 (ugh)

80's (some hope)
DH 89 - Smoak 145, Sogard 125, Grichuk 77, Vlad 70, Tellez 64 (15 guys used there so far)
3B 85 - Vlad 112, Drury 35. Wow does Drury drag that down.
1B 83 - Drury 201 (guess he likes 1B), Tellez 87, Smoak 76, McKinney 28

70's (ugh)
CA 77 - McGuire 159, Jansen 80, Maile 24 - yeah, Maile should be left in AAA or sent elsewhere.

50's (maybe I should go play)
RF 58 - Biggio 154 (4 HR in 30 PA), Grichuk 75, Drury 51, McKinney 49, Brito -63 (1 for 28)

In RF Brito & Hansen combined to go 2 for 40 with 19 K's - wow. How do guys in the majors do that?

I'd say looking at these stats it is clear the biggest need is better backups than Drury, Brito, Hansen, Maile. The old 'guys play better when not pushed defensively' seems true for Drury (look at 1B), or to put them where they want to play (Hernandez in CF, Vlad at 3B vs DH). Bottom line is this team sucked everywhere but SS in the overall picture but with Bo/Biggio/Gurriel/Vlad, McGuire over Maile, for a full season each we should see a much better result in 2020.
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pooks137 - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#381215) #
LF in the Catalanotto/Menechino era?

Very close. Right position, wrong year.

I just randomly guessed the Mencherson year and it turns out I was right.

Manning LF in 2008 for your Toronto Blue Jay's without an error

  • Adam Lind - 71 starts
  • Shannon Stewart - 40 games, 36 starts
  • Brad Wilkerson - 29 games, 13 starts
  • Kevin Mench - 21 games, 14 starts
  • Travis Snider - 13 games, 11 starts
  • Joe Inglett - 22 games, 5 starts
  • Matt Stairs - 9 games, 8 starts
  • Marco Scutaro, 3 starts
  • Buck Coats, 7 games, 1 start

    • What a motley crew that gave the Jays their only perfect year in left field.

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    ISLAND BOY - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#381216) #
    I remember all of these players except for the immortal Buck Coats !
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    Chuck - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 12:58 PM EDT (#381217) #
    their only perfect year in left field.

    Error-free I'll accept, sure. But not perfect. These roving brutes were hardly out there stealing hits from the opposition or turning doubles into singles.

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    Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#381218) #
    The fact that Adam Lind was involved simply boggles my mind.
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    GabrielSyme - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#381219) #
    Sure-handed is a reasonable descriptor for Lind - 1 error in over 2000 innings in LF.

    I don't really remember his routes, but when you put a guy like Lind in left, all you really can ask is that he catch what he can get to, and he did that.
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    hypobole - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#381220) #
    The ship with the Jolly Roger is sinking. Lots of internal issues, culminating with Kyle Crick tearing a tendon in a fistfight with teammate Felipe Vasquez.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnperrotto/2019/09/11/pittsburgh-pirates-kyle-crick-felipe-vazquez-keone-kela-bullpen-discord/#3135a78a4cdf

    "While all pitchers are required to shag fly balls in the outfield during batting practice, Vazquez will occasional skip the duties and stay in the clubhouse to take a pre-game nap. All players are also expected to wear warm-up jerseys during batting practice, but Vazquez is often spotted wearing a T-shirt.

    Crick, according to multiple team sources, has been particularly upset about Vazquez being allowed to skirt team rules. He and Rojas got into a physical altercation over the matter in late July, leading to Rojas’ suspension."

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    dan gordon - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#381221) #
    "They were right in thinking it they needed just one more run"

    Not in the 6th inning, they weren't. At that point, you have no idea how many runs you will need. The runner is already in scoring position at 2B. You have 3 chances to score him from there. The batter also had the platoon advantage against a terrible pitcher. Bunting there is bad baseball.
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    Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 02:09 PM EDT (#381222) #
    Sure-handed is a reasonable descriptor for Lind
    Br> Granted. Still a klutz!
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    GabrielSyme - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 02:53 PM EDT (#381223) #
    Taking a deeper look at Biggio's numbers, I think we should be very optimistic about him. His batted-ball distribution is near-ideal, but he has a below-average BABIP, and his xWOBA suggests he's being a little unlucky. More significantly, he's running a ~29 K% despite having an above-average contact rate in the strike zone and a well-below-average swinging strike rate. His approach might make him a little more vulnerable with two strikes, but even so I expect his strikeout rate to decline even if nothing else changes. The one negative aspect of Biggio's profile is that he doesn't have a very high maximum exit velocity - while he hits the ball hard pretty often, he never hits it extremely hard. If the league de-juices the baseball, his power may decline significantly.
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    Gerry - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#381224) #
    Still no Alford in the lineup today. Davis is back in there, the skipper really likes him.
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    Cracka - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#381225) #
    Or.... Davis has two options remaining, and will likely be part of the organization next season, probably making a bunch of trips between Buffalo & Toronto. While Alford has no options remaining and needs to clear waivers to be outrighted to Buffalo next season. Davis is simply more valuable than Alford at this point. I think they have mostly given up on Alford... I could see him being removed from the 40-man roster before the Rule V draft.
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    Mike Green - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#381226) #
    Here are the Blue Jays 2018-19 wOBA and xwOBA with PAs.  It does seem that they tend to converge with time, except for a few players who are very slow and susceptible to shifting (like Smoak and Kendrys).


    Player PA wOBA xwOBA
    McGuire 101 .387 .332
    Bichette 187 .379 .343
    Gurriel Jr. 584 .344 .337
    Guerrero Jr. 454 .341 .341
    Biggio 357 .321 .344
    Grichuk 1023 .318 .318
    Hernandez 931 .318 .321
    Tellez 426 .315 .325
    McKinney 369 .301 .302
    Fisher 83 .290 .315
    Jansen 453 .288 .317
    Urena 155 .287 .251
    Maile 351 .271 .279
    Davis 94 .199 .292

    The chart may provide some clue why they want to give Davis a longer look. 
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    PeterG - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 04:53 PM EDT (#381227) #
    There is another way of looking at it and that is with 26 man roster next season and likely 5 OF's, they know they are keeping Alford for next season to give him a full opportunity. The reason Davis and Hernandez getting more play is because one of them at least may be gone and not on 40 man off season roster. This seems just as likely, if not more, than giving up on Alford which would be stupid imo. He had an excellent 2nd half in AAA.
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    uglyone - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#381228) #
    Maybe we could try to go out and get a good player instead.

    Hell, Kevin Pillar is only 3yrs older than Davis and is on track for another ~2war season.
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    BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#381229) #
    I have a feeling the Jays might want to give Vlad another look at 3B for next year. They don't have anyone knocking on the door for that position (Groshans is probably, what, at least two years away from starting to get into the mix) and since Vlad chose to play there, they probably don't want to kick him off there quite yet. If that goes badly then they might look at a move. He does seem to have a pretty good arm, but the footwork and range and hands are not great. The problem is, as uglyone pointed out, even if he gets to passable (probably his defensive ceiling) then not too long after that he's probably moving to 1B anyway.

    While we're on the subject of baby Vlad, I'd like to see him decrease his groundball rate.
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    Mike Green - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#381230) #
    Pillar will turn 31 in January. Pillar's wOBA the last 4 years- .295, .302, .302, .304.  I think I know what you're getting from him offensively. 

    His defence in centerfield the last 3 years DRS: 15, -2, -4.  And UZR: 5.4, 2.3, -0.3.  His expected (actual) catch percentages in 2017, 2018, 2019 were: 87(87), 87(87) and 86(86).  These are not good numbers for a centerfielder who is on the other side of 30. 

    If you believe that Davis wOBA reflects what he will do, then Pillar is an upgrade.  If you believe that his xwOBA and minor league record is a better indicator, than Davis would probably be better than Pillar next year (with Davis being a 1.5-2 WAR player and Pillar being a 1 WAR player).  Personally, I'd prefer to have Davis in a platoon and some other player with him. 
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    Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:37 PM EDT (#381231) #
    Davis and Fisher are both a little different from this vast crop of more or less interchangeable outfielders, all with very similar skill sets.

    Davis can really play the outfield and he can really run. But he'll be 28 in May and he certainly hasn't shown me that he can hit MLB pitching.

    Fisher really knows the strike zone and the ball just jumps off his bat, with power. It's just that his bat so seldom meets the ball. Plus, he's a klutz in the field.
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    BlueJayWay - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:52 PM EDT (#381232) #
    More significantly, he's running a ~29 K% despite having an above-average contact rate in the strike zone and a well-below-average swinging strike rate. His approach might make him a little more vulnerable with two strikes, but even so I expect his strikeout rate to decline even if nothing else changes.

    That's interesting about Biggio. That combination of low swing rate, and above average contact on pitches in the zone should result in a much lower K rate than that.

    It seems he strikes out looking a lot (on pitches that probably aren't strikes)
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    uglyone - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 05:56 PM EDT (#381233) #
    Mike I think 1.5-2.0 war for a 28yr old rookie Davis is wildly, wildly optimistic.

    If he can hold steady at replacement level we count our blessings.
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    hypobole - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#381234) #
    Mike I think 1.5-2.0 war for a 28yr old rookie Davis is wildly, wildly optimistic.

    Looks like Chuck and I aren't the only ones Mike's going to outlive. :)
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    scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#381235) #
    Bref  has Drury worth  OWAR on defense and Vladdy at -0.2.

    Fangraphs has different metrics on their WAR components.
    Drury has -16.6 on offense and -4 on defense for an overall -0.6 WAR
    Vladdy has 1.9 on offense and -11 on defense for an overal +0.7 WAR.

    Vladdy has not played first base. Catching the ball, is the part he's not good at.
    It would make sense to give him the occasional start at first next year, to see how he handles it, but a 21 year old DH is far from ideal and that's his best position.

    Decent 1B are easy to find. Decent 3B are not.
    Groshans could reach sometimes in 2022.
    It makes no sense to spend resources to stock that position.

    Hardly anyone was complaining when Bautista was playing an horrible RF.

    Finally, a rotation that strikes out a lot of batters and does not produce a lot of ground balls could mitigate the issue, as soon as 2021.

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    GabrielSyme - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#381237) #
    Resubmitted to make it readable- I hit post when I should have hit preview.

    That's interesting about Biggio. That combination of low swing rate, and above average contact on pitches in the zone should result in a much lower K rate than that. It seems he strikes out looking a lot (on pitches that probably aren't strikes)

    I wasn't sure where to find strikeout-looking data, so I didn't include it in my original post. But I've dug around a little, and here's what I found: For the league as a whole, just short of 23% of all strikeouts are looking, a proportion that has been in a slow decline.

    Biggio has 103 Ks, so you'd expect about 24 to be looking if he were at the league average. Instead, 38 have been looking. I was curious about your suggestion that a bunch of them were on pitches outside the zone, so I checked Brooks Baseball, and Biggio only has 14 non-swings on strikes inside the zone with 2 strikes.

    That plainly seemed ridiculous (you'd expect some bad calls, but not nearly 2/3rds of called strikeouts), so I worried that Brooks has a narrow zone.

    I checked a couple comparables: Daniel Vogelback and Logan Forsythe, who both have excellent plate discipline and high strikeouts. Vogelbach has 35 Ks looking, and 22 non-swings on 2-strike strikes; Forsythe has 44 Ks looking, with 37 non-swings. I also took a look at the three top strikeout guys this year: Acuna, Eugenio Suarez and Harper. Acuna has 54 Ks looking, 42 non-swings; Suarez has 45 Ks looking, 27 non-swings; Harper 21 Ks looking, 13 non-swings. Brooks zone might be narrow, but clearly other players don't see the same degree of disagreement between their strikeouts looking and their non-swings.

    While there's a pretty wide variation, taking the average suggests that Biggio should only have 20 Ks looking. I'd say he's getting hosed.
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    Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#381238) #
    Did the official scorer look at Biggio's BAVG and think "the kid needs a break?"
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    bpoz - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:46 PM EDT (#381239) #
    Tellez is looking like a good player.
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    scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 08:49 PM EDT (#381240) #
    Loved the Biggio stolen base.

    Boston's AAA pitching isn't that great.
    They finished 59-81.


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    scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:32 PM EDT (#381241) #
    So the Jays are 104 defensive runs saved better than last year?
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    scottt - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#381242) #
    Hernandez was -11 in LF and -5 in RF
    Diaz -9
    Gurriel -9 at SS and -3 at 2B
    Travis -6
    Gaviglio -5 (really?)
    Pearce -5
    Solarte -5 at 2B and -3 at 3B and -2 at SS
    Borucki, Happ, Biagini -4
    Granderson, Urshela, Mckinney -3
    Davis -2 in LF
    Smith Jr -3 in LF and -2 in RF


    Now
    Jansen at +11
    Bichette at +4
    Hernandez at +1 in LF
    Biggio at 0

    The worst are
    Grichuk -8 in RF
    Hernandez -4 in CF
    Sogard -4 in 2B
    Drury -4 in RF
    Guerrero -3 in 3B
    Galvis -3 at SS
    Gaviglio -2 (still?)
    MckInney, Gurriel and Fisher all -2 in LF



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    Magpie - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#381243) #
    Apparently Buchholz showed Thornton a new curveball grip the other day. Seems to have helped. That thing he was throwing tonight was positively vicious.
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    hypobole - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#381244) #
    Brought up during the telecast, but worth mention:

    Red Sox failed to get an extra-base hit, ending a 159-game streak that was as the fourth longest in baseball history.
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    SK in NJ - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 11:11 PM EDT (#381245) #
    I am rooting for Davis, but I see no reason why he would be above Alford on the team's depth chart. Alford was a top 60 prospect in baseball two years ago and has fallen off largely due to injury and contact issues in AAA. It is possible he has turned into a non-prospect, but there is at least some upside there. In many ways he is in the same boat as Fisher, who the Jays coveted enough to trade for rather than wait until the Astros likely removed him off their 40 man roster in the winter.

    I'm not sure what the Jays plan to do for 2020. If it's another tank year, which I hope not, then keeping Alford is a no brainer. Even if he's not good, give him a chance to see what he has in a lost season. If they want to be semi-competitive/take a step forward, then they might lean towards upgrading the OF situation from outside the org and prioritize players with options remaining. Either way, I would think they'd want to play Alford a bit more to see what they have with him, but if they have given up on him, then this might just be a cup of coffee before he's moved out.
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    dan gordon - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 11:20 PM EDT (#381246) #
    Yes, breaking the Red Sox extra base hit streak was interesting, as were a couple of other things mentioned on the broadcast - the Jays are on pace to set the all time mlb record for % of their runs scored via the HR, breaking their own record set in 2010, I believe it was. They're at about 53% at the moment. The other thing is that there was a new all time record set tonight for total HR's by all teams in a season.

    Thornton looked really good. If Buchholz can have that kind of effect on a pitcher after one conversation, bring him back for another year. Get him to talk with Reid-Foley. Maybe he has a future as a pitching coach, too.

    Jonathan Davis has played 42 mlb games, and has -0.9 WAR, roughly a -3.5 WAR pace. But a lot of those games are partial games after pinch running or being a defensive replacement. He has only 94 PA's. At a full season pace, that would bring him to about -5.4 WAR. It would take a major leap ahead for him just to get to zero, let alone +1.5 or +2.0. At his age, if anything, he's going to start declining, not improving. Indeed, it looks like his speed is already declining. In 2016, he had 8 triples, in 2019, just 3. In 2016, he had 33 SB's vs only 6 CS, in 2019, 15 SB's vs 5 CS. He didn't really start playing CF in the minors until 2017, and his range factor in both 2017 and 2018 was significantly higher than it was this year. Since the vast majority of his value is in his speed, and that is already declining, how is he going to improve enough to be a useful mlb player. He's not remotely close to a 2.0 WAR player.
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    Mike Green - Wednesday, September 11 2019 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#381248) #
    I didn't say that I thought Davis was a 1.5 to 2 WAR player. He's a much better fielder than Pillar right now,. How much worse he is as a hitter isn't clear because of sample size and exceedingly bad luck. I was opposing the idea of bringing back Pillar, not suggesting that Davis was a good bet as an everyday player

    As I said, I would get a platoon partner for him. I anticipate that if you gave Reese McGuire and Davis 200 PAs next year, they'd move to within 60 points of wOBA of each other.
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    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 01:35 AM EDT (#381249) #
    The Jays breaking the record for highest % of runs scored via the HR is hardly surprising given the lineup. It’s a function of the 28th best team OBP of .303 and the FO’s fetish for Grichuk, Hernandez, Fisher etc types. The team needs an injection of OBP into the lineup and badly needs it in the OF.
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    scottt - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 06:44 AM EDT (#381250) #
    Fisher is actually a not a bad OBP guy. Same with Davis. Neither are hitting right now but Fisher has 11 walk vs 33 Ks.
    That's a much better ratio than Grichuk 34/148 or Hernandez 33/137.

    Thornton can be very good. His curve has always been amazing. For some reason he throws a lot more sliders than curve. Also, locating the fastball makes a huge difference. If he's ahead in the count, they have to be ready to hit the fastball and swing at those 71-79 curves. I don't think he should throw a cutter.

    Zeuch is mostly sinker/slider/change, but they had him throw 5 high heaters in his game (They all missed. He just started working on that pitch.)  along with a few curve balls that looked pretty good.



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    scottt - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 06:46 AM EDT (#381251) #
    Luciano should be activated today and someone should be DFAed.

    I think Gurriel will wait until next week.

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    grjas - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 08:07 AM EDT (#381252) #
    The Jays breaking the record for highest % of runs scored via the HR is hardly surprising given the lineup. It’s a function of the 28th best team OBP of .303 and the FO’s fetish for Grichuk, Hernandez, Fisher etc types. The team needs an injection of OBP into the lineup and badly needs it in the OF.

    That’s my take as well, and it’s a bit worrisome for the future. I suspect Biggio and Guerrero’s OBP will improve even further, but large parts of this lineup look like all or nothing types which will lend itself to streaky output...as happened this year. I’ve lost count of the number of times the team has a runner at third with one or nobody out and can’t bring him home.
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    rpriske - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#381253) #
    Davis should be higher than Alford on a Blue Jays depth chart because Davis could still turn into a real player.

    Alford is a failed prospect. He is at best a 4th OF, and shouldn't be clogging up the 40-man on a team that has more than enough of those.

    Davis has options. He still has a chance to prove himself and should definitely get the playing time right now.

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    Spifficus - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:16 AM EDT (#381254) #

    the FO’s fetish for Grichuk, Hernandez, Fisher etc types.

    Is it a fetish, or is that what you find in the bargain bin? The biggest asset a rebuilding club has is ABs, and it makes sense for them to churn through those types to see if one gets enough plate discipline to tap into their potential and maybe become an above average player. That looked like it was happening for Grichuk last year, but unfortunately he's regressed back this year.

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    bpoz - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:21 AM EDT (#381255) #
    So far in Sept Davis is getting more playing time than Alford. I doubt it means much.

    I don't see a 40 man crunch for this years rule 5 draft. I expect that no position player will be added to the 40 man roster in Nov. Smoak probably leaves as a FA. Travis probably non tendered. Maile may be gone from the organization, not sure how it will happen. All our top position players need ABs next year for further development. That will be sorted out in the off season and ST.

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    hypobole - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:29 AM EDT (#381256) #
    Is it a fetish, or is that what you find in the bargain bin?

    Or maybe both. Grichuk, Teoscar, Fisher were all bargain bin acquisitions. I argued in the offseason the Jays should trade Diaz and Grichuk. They did Diaz, but extended Grichuk instead.
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    Jevant - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#381257) #
    Bingo. This is literally how Bautista and EE developed. Not saying any of these guys will reach that level, but this is what you are hoping for.

    Grichuk could be hurt. I'm surprised he's struggled as much as he has this year.

    Bottom line, I think you need to find a real CF (better than Davis or Teoscar). I'd keep Alford around to see if he can figure things out, and I'd probably keep Fisher too since I like the profile. You can rotate one guy through the DH spot, and with a 26 man roster next year should be able to have a 5 man bench.
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    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#381258) #
    I’m not sure Grichuk or Fisher would quite be bargain bin but, regardless, not even all bargain bin players have the same profiles. I think it’s clear the FO likes this type of profile. I acknowledge my bias, I don’t share the same belief as the FO that 30% K types are good risk reward prospects. Anyway, the key issue to me is how does this lineup get more OBP into it if they are simply bringing the band back again next year for another tour?
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    Chuck - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#381259) #
    This is literally how Bautista and EE developed.

    I don't agree. Encarnacion was already an above average hitter in his early 20s. He made the transition to top shelf hitter entering his 30s.

    Bautista showed he could draw a walk in his 20s before Cito tweaked his swing, turning him into Babe Ruth in as an unlikely a career arc as you could hope for.

    As Magpie always (wisely) counsels, youneverknow, so I would never categorically assert that none of the current crew won't follow the unlikely career paths of EE and JB, but "hope for magic as they hit 30" would seem a desperate development strategy.

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    Vulg - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#381260) #
    Is it a fetish, or is that what you find in the bargain bin? The biggest asset a rebuilding club has is ABs, and it makes sense for them to churn through those types to see if one gets enough plate discipline to tap into their potential and maybe become an above average player. That looked like it was happening for Grichuk last year, but unfortunately he's regressed back this year.

    I alluded to this a bit earlier, but I think it's a byproduct of the FO gambling on the wrong market inefficiency (I hate using Moneyball terms but I think it fits in this case). They clearly like high exit-velocity and hard contact. When they've secured it, they don't seem shy about investing in it (i.e. Grichuk's contract). It just means less in a juiced ball era where dudes who might have ~5mph less exit oomph on batted balls still consistently hit them out.

    Grichuk's K/BB rates have been pretty consistent over ~2K ABs. I'm not exactly sure what they saw to lead them to believe his understanding of the zone was trending up (at least to the extent that it gave them confidence in that financial commitment). "Hits the ball far" seems to be the common thread.
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    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#381262) #
    You know, it's possible that Grichuk's just having One of Those Years. His game is off a little - he's mysteriously not hitting for as much power as he has before - a few things have been going wrong - what's with all the GDPs this year - and, as always, it's a very fine line. He was a good player a year ago, .301 OBP and all. This year not so much. Sometimes it just happens.
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    Oceanbound - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#381263) #
    I’m not sure Grichuk or Fisher would quite be bargain bin but, regardless, not even all bargain bin players have the same profiles. I think it’s clear the FO likes this type of profile

    As others have pointed out, Fisher has way better plate discipline than Grichuk, so it's a big stretch to say they have the same profile.
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    Mike Green - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#381264) #
    On a positive note, the FO did draft Cavan Biggio (and others) who don't fit this mold.  I love Biggio- the keen eye at the plate, 11-0 stealing bases despite only somewhat above average speed.    VGJ, Bichette, Biggio, Gurriel, Jansen, McGuire all are of a different type, and have a decent chance to have the W/K under control (or better) in the medium term. 

    Rowdy Tellez' development on this score has been disappointing- he's 24 and chasing 40% of pitches outside the zone.  That was not his pattern throughout the minor leagues.  He is well aware of the problem, and did have a good attitude when he was sent down.  Sometimes it's physical- he may wish to talk to Danny Jansen's ophthamologist. 
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    Vulg - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:46 AM EDT (#381265) #
    As others have pointed out, Fisher has way better plate discipline than Grichuk, so it's a big stretch to say they have the same profile.

    In the minor leagues, perhaps. Across all of his major league ABs, he's walked 40 times and struck out 142 (eg. Grichuk is at 34 and 148 this year).

    So I would say he has the potential to have better plate discipline than Grichuk as a major leaguer, but so far has shown very similar tendencies.
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    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#381266) #
    Magpie - I actually think that Grichuk is just having one of those years and is likely to be better next year, but that's the thing with guys who k 25-30% of the time. Their margin for error is negligible - any drop in ISO or BABIP and they're dead meat. It's just such a narrow path to success. It's definitely a path to success and, as others have said, its possible that they may find a diamond out of this group but, in my view, they are pretty long odds. A LH CF with good defence and OBP skills would fix quite a few ills with this line-up.
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    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#381267) #
    Across all of his major league ABs, he's walked 40 times and struck out 142 (eg. Grichuk is at 34 and 148 this year).

    It's not really similar. Fisher has 40 walks in 395 PApps. Grichuk has 34 walks in 565 PApps. Fishers walks - and strikes out - far more frequently.

    You know if Smoak and Maile aren't back next year - which doesn't exactly seem impossible - Grichuk becomes the team's grizzled veteran, their oldest position player. The guy who'll be telling the kids where to eat in Kansas City and stuff like that.

    Would you like to hear about a Blue Jay leading the league in something? Anything? Besides Sam Gaviglio in relief innings? Of course you would. The AL hitter least likely to hit into a DP is Cavan Biggio, natch. The guy almost never hits the ball on the ground, he's left-handed, he runs well enough. Biggio's had 361 PApps and he's still hasn't hit into a twin killing, which is a ratio of Reverse Infinity or something. In the other league, Eric Thames somehow has more than 400 PApps without hitting into a DP, which seems to be nothing more than a Fluke.
    [ Reply to This ]
    tercet - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:06 AM EDT (#381268) #
    Nigel - Good point, I've been something similar in regards to the no walk, high k guys, and pitchers eventually figure them all out. Grichucks up/down is just the variance of how pitchers can pitch him over a season.
    Also re this topic for nearly over a year too, Im in the Gurriel is trash category as well, he is playing over his head right now, eventually at some point, he will regress to the sub 300obp that is his true talent.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#381269) #
    Nigel. I agree completely.

    Is that weird?
    [ Reply to This ]
    bpoz - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#381270) #
    No doubt there are players with issues in the OF. Gurriel Jr seems fine as a player. Hope we can agree.

    How would DSJ compare on this list? We traded him for Int'l cap room. He had options left. We probably do that with our surplus OFs. All second grade. Wall and Palacios seem similar. So we are not running out of this type of OF.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Mike Green - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#381271) #
    A LH CF with good defence and OBP skills would fix quite a few ills with this line-up.

    Cal Stevenson has continued his hot hitting for Fayetteville in the playoffs.  He's batting second and playing centerfield everyday for them.  In game 1 of the Carolina League finals, he was 1-2 with a walk (and 2 sacrifices).  In game 2, he was 2-3 with a walk. 

    It is funny that the FO traded the one player in the organization with the particular skill set that they really do need.  Obviously, he's a long way from the big leagues, but still. 
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:23 AM EDT (#381272) #
    Grichuk has struck out less as a Blue Jay (26.2%) than he did as a Cardinal (29.9%) and apparently in mid-season this year he started to really focus on reducing his strikeouts. It's worked, sort of. Since 1 July, he's cut his Ks to 22.3% of PApps. But in the process, he's also cut his walks drawn in half.
    [ Reply to This ]
    uglyone - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#381274) #
    fangraphs' combined depth charts Rest of Season projections, used as a proxy for next year's projections:

    3B Vladdy 121wrc+
    RF Grichuk 100wrc+
    SS Bichette 97wrc+
    LF Gurriel 95wrc+
    1B Tellez 93wrc+
    CF Teoscar 91wrc+
    2B Biggio 90wrc+
    C Jansen 90wrc+
    DH Fisher 89wrc+

    UT McKinney 85wrc+
    OF Davis 68wrc+ --- Alford 60wrc+
    IF Drury 78wrc+ --- Urena 56wrc+
    C McGuire 79wrc+ -- Maile 52wrc+
    [ Reply to This ]
    bpoz - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 12:40 PM EDT (#381275) #
    In the off season does fangraphs do a report card on their projections? I don't expect 100% accuracy because of injuries and other factors.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 01:12 PM EDT (#381276) #
    Shi Davidi has a nice end of season update on the minor league system.
    [ Reply to This ]
    85bluejay - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#381277) #
    Glad to see the mention about SRF's poor physical conditioning - probably will derail his potential.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#381278) #
    At my age, it always seems weird when someone agrees with me:)
    [ Reply to This ]
    PeterG - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#381279) #
    Clayton Richard has been released.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Mike Green - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#381280) #
    ROS projections have a wide error bar as a proxy for next year projections for 20 and 21 year olds.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Chuck - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#381281) #
    Clayton Richard has been released.

    Hopefully they've got other people to throw BP.

    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#381282) #
    Still no Alford in the lineup. Billy McKinney is back in there though, so there's that!
    [ Reply to This ]
    hypobole - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#381283) #
    Hopefully they've got other people to throw BP.

    Yeah, our opponents have other people to throw BP.
    [ Reply to This ]
    scottt - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#381284) #
    Guerrero should improve, for sure.
    Bichette has been so good that he's probably not going to match that over all of next year, but I'm not expecting him to be average either.
    Biggio has an OPS+ of 100 while hitting just .213. I see no reason to expect him to be below average.
    Gurriel is hard to forecast, but I don't think he'll  be worse than last year at 106,.

    The rest are actually encouraging. Just need to dump Drury.

    [ Reply to This ]
    PeterG - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#381285) #
    Dan Shulman speaking on PTS says that there will be more experimentation next year. Adds that 2020 will be last year of current phase, not 1st year of next phase. Says it has been a good 1st year of rebuild as many players have improved. He also believes that club has soured on Alford and that Santiago Espinal will be on the team next year.
    [ Reply to This ]
    dan gordon - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#381286) #
    In the case of Gurriel, the rest of season projection is a very small number of AB's after missing over a month. His wRC+ for the year is 127, after 103 last year. He's a young guy in the early stages of his career and could very well be even better next year. Bichette is at 136 for this year, and it's only 40 games, so maybe a bit of regression is likely there, as he's on a 40 HR pace, but I would think 120 or better is certainly reasonable for Guerrero, Gurriel and Bichette next year. Biggio's at 102 for the year, and a bit of an improvement in his contact rate should get him to 110 or better. Speaking of Biggio, I have noticed that when he swings, the bat is coming through the zone at quite an angle vs the ground - the head of the bat is a lot lower than the handle, more so than for other players. I recently heard on one of the game broadcasts that the Blue Jays are going to try to work with Biggio on changing that.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Shoeless Joe - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 07:23 PM EDT (#381287) #
    Lourdes Gurriel Jr increased his xwOBA against breaking balls from 0.223 in 2018 to 0.330 in 2019. I think that really bodes well for him as a hitter long term.

    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#381288) #
    Not expecting to see tonight's outfield play in an instructional video.
    [ Reply to This ]
    uglyone - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#381289) #
    @DrewGROF
    One way to clear up the Jays outfield logjam is load them onto a rocket and shoot them directly into the sun.
    [ Reply to This ]
    lexomatic - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#381290) #
    Eric Thames somehow has more than 400 PApps without hitting into a DP, which seems to be nothing more than a Fluke.

    Not that weird, Magpie. Walks, strikeouts, ball in the air (20 HR, 45 % FB vs 33 % GB). Average + speed score above average baserunning (fangraphs stats).
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:29 PM EDT (#381291) #
    What is going on?
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#381292) #
    Romano hasn't pitched well since he has come back up in September.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:33 PM EDT (#381293) #
    Yeah, but it's no different from his past performance, when he didn't hit into amany but he wasn't completely immune. His Ks are actually down this year, and he does hit more balls on the ground than Biggio. (A low bar, I admit.)
    [ Reply to This ]
    Cynicalguy - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#381294) #
    2020 off season plan and 2020 plan should look like this

    Non-Tender Maile, Drury, and Travis. Trade Giles.

    That brings the salary to about $50 million. Use the payroll flexibility and be opportunistic to sign 2 starting pitchers and 2 good relievers and a utility bench player (like Sogard).

    One of Tellez or Mckinney should be the 1B, give them each half a season, with the other in Buffalo see if either one turns into anything.

    Rotate 4 outfielders through DH. Give Alford and Fisher a chance to show if either of them turns into anything, half a season each. Same with Hernandez.

    Trade candidates on July 31: Shoemaker, Tepera, the 2 free agent starters and the 2 free agent relievers.


    Roster

    SP Shoemaker
    SP Borucki
    SP Free agent SP1
    SP Free agent SP2
    RP Kay

    RP Tepera
    RP Mayza
    RP Free agent RP1
    RP Free agent RP2
    RP Waguespack
    RP Thornton
    RP Law
    RP Zeuch

    Lineup
    DH Hernandez
    C Jansen
    1B Tellez/Mckinney - One is in Buffalo
    2B Biggio
    SS Bichette
    3B Guerrero
    LF Gurriel
    RF Fisher
    CF Grichuk

    Bench
    C McGuire
    IF Free agent UT1
    IF Urena
    OF Alford

    Ideally 2021 the team is competitive.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#381295) #
    OK, I was responding to lexomatic about Thames there, before Gerry got distracted by the wonder of the Jays play in the field!
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#381296) #
    At times like these I think about how much the front office loves Derek Fisher.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#381297) #
    Poor Grichuk has logged an awful lot of miles tonight running after other guys mistakes.
    [ Reply to This ]
    hypobole - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:31 PM EDT (#381298) #
    Atkins should only be allowed to trade for pitchers or International Bonus Pool space.
    [ Reply to This ]
    uglyone - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#381299) #
    @DrewGROF
    One way to clear up the Jays outfield logjam is load them onto a rocket and shoot them directly into the sun.



    Sorry. Reflex.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#381300) #
    There are some things you need to get zen about. This FO either being unable to properly evaluate or, far more likely, not giving a crap about OF defence is one of them. This issue didn’t just start this year, it’s been going on for years.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Nigel - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:45 PM EDT (#381301) #
    Worksafe should really be requiring Fisher to wear a helmet in the OF.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:46 PM EDT (#381302) #
    Imagine if Teoscar had been in centre with those guys.

    The pitchers would be organizing an intervention right now.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Cynicalguy - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#381303) #
    Fisher looks like a lost cause already.
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    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#381304) #
    McGuire made an error where the ball slipped, Alford got his body in the wrong position. But Fisher just looks like he is a bad defender. He is either lacking confidence, has no experience in left field, or is a bad defender.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:57 PM EDT (#381305) #
    John Sickels in 2017 wrote this about Fisher:

    "defense is mediocre despite his physical tools".

    That seems accurate to me.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Gerry - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 10:59 PM EDT (#381306) #
    MLB.com in 2017 about Fisher:

    "In the outfield, Fisher is a fringy defender who gets inconsistent jumps and reads, but has experience at all three outfield positions. He's spent much of his career in either center or left field due to his speed and due to the fact his below-average arm strength is not an ideal fit in right."

    If Gurriel is our left fielder, and Grichuk in right, where does Fisher play?
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:19 PM EDT (#381307) #
    If Gurriel is our left fielder, and Grichuk in right, where does Fisher play?

    Buffalo.
    [ Reply to This ]
    ayjackson - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#381308) #
    or Baltimore
    [ Reply to This ]
    SK in NJ - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:29 PM EDT (#381309) #
    I think Fisher has intriguing offensive skills (draws walks, legit power potential, good exit velocity, speed), but it doesn't appear he has any defensive value at all. I'm not sure how that translates into a long-term role on this team, especially since that's essentially Teoscar's issue as well. With Vlad being a ticking time bomb at 3B, with a move to 1B being closer to inevitable than debatable, the team needs to keep 1B/DH flexible as well. So where do Fisher and Hernandez fit in? It is certainly not in CF or RF.

    If next season is the final season of "phase 1", and not the first season of "phase 2" (as Shulman speculates), then I hope they hold on to Alford and live with whatever bad offense he provides until a better option becomes available.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#381310) #
    After tonight, I'm all "put Davis in centre, I don't care if he hits like a pitcher, I can't take any more of this... Who's with me?"

    (The pitchers all raise their hands.)
    [ Reply to This ]
    John Northey - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:39 PM EDT (#381311) #
    For 2020 I suspect Fisher will be DH'ing a lot with Hernandez. In the field to give the others a break.

    In CF who knows? OPS in brackets with age, guys who played 10+ games
    AAA: Fields (645-28), Davis (831-27), Alford (754-24)
    AA: Wall (772-23), Palacios (787-23), Espinal (725-24)
    A+: Young (669-21), Stevenson (780-22), Pruitt (648-22)
    A: Pruitt (717-22), Steinmetz (616-22), Kirwer (679-23)

    That is all the full-season teams. Short seasons won't help until 2022 at the earliest unless a super-star is down there. Alford by age is still about as good as we've got. Wall I'd rank next followed by Stevenson. If Davis' bat in AAA was for real I'd be excited but he hasn't shown any signs of that in the majors although his career minor league numbers are decent at 258/359/415. I could see him as the 5th OF next year and moving to regular in CF due to defense with the shaky defense in RF/LF.

    Free agent options suck this winter in CF. Jarrod Dyson is probably the best, but his lifetime OPS+ is 79 (68 this year) and is all defense and turns 35 next year. Ugh.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Thursday, September 12 2019 @ 11:59 PM EDT (#381312) #
    McKinney apparently tried to apologize to Buchholz for the misplay. Buchholz said forget it, that he should have made a better pitch.
    [ Reply to This ]
    dan gordon - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 12:51 AM EDT (#381313) #
    The more I see Fisher play, the more upset I get that they traded Stevenson to get him. Said at the time that I wouldn't have traded Stevenson even up for Fisher, and I feel even more strongly about that now. I don't know how they could have decided that Fisher was any kind of answer in the OF. I can't remember the last time I saw an OF look so afraid of the ball being hit to him. He looked like he wanted to be any place else, and I wish he was.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Shoeless Joe - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 05:26 AM EDT (#381314) #
    I watched the game and Fisher had a bad night in the field, but through 878.2 inning in the outfield he has a +5 DRS and 5.9 UZR/150.
    [ Reply to This ]
    ISLAND BOY - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#381315) #
    Last night wasn't his first rough night though. He seems genuinely afraid of running into any walls and in one game recently he misplayed a ball in foul territory by being tentative even though he was at least six feet from the stands. Of course there was the pop-up he caught with his face,too. I can see why he couldn't crack the Astro's outfield.
    [ Reply to This ]
    rpriske - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 08:44 AM EDT (#381316) #
    It is interesting to me how hard people are on Fisher in here, when it seems that the Jays clearly 'won' that trade.

    Sanchez has continued to be dead weight and Biagini will like get non-tendered, while Fisher is an adequate 4th OF. The real issue is that the Jays need a new 3rd OF.

    [ Reply to This ]
    scottt - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 08:48 AM EDT (#381317) #
    Fisher seem to have the reflex of taking his eyes off the ball to confirm where he is.
    Once when he lost the ball in the air, he just covered his face.
    I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that outside of little leagues.
    Of course, that ball he took in the eye might not have helped.

    Still, in the current situation, you want guys who play hard and if they get injured you call one of the guys in AAA.

    McKinney is as much a lost cause I think.
    He doesn't have the reflexes and the agility to make the last adjustments.
    Hernandez just takes too long to head in the right direction.

    Davis looks fine defensively.
    I think they need to use a late inning defensive replacement next year.
    Right now, you just want to see what guys can do.
    I'd still give Alford a chance to win the job in spring training.
    Then you go from there. I don't see any trade value.

    The next guy in line is Chavez Young who could reach in 2021, but still needs to have a breakout season.

    [ Reply to This ]
    scottt - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 08:58 AM EDT (#381318) #
    Fisher could be the 4th outfielder who plays anywhere. He's a left bat who can take a walk and steal a base.
    It's too bad he's got reverse splits.

    He's not the starting center field. No.

    Guys will get injured, and that's when he'll play more, like in August.

    Can they send him to instructional league?

    [ Reply to This ]
    Magpie - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 09:02 AM EDT (#381319) #
    it seems that the Jays clearly 'won' that trade.

    Just a little premature, surely. Right now, everyone has lost the trade. But Cal Stevenson could become a genuine major leaguer. The Astros might fix Sanchez. The Blue Jays might unlock Fisher's ability.

    None of those things have happened yet, but none of them are off the table.
    [ Reply to This ]
    85bluejay - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 09:45 AM EDT (#381320) #
    I am going to put off my assessment of Derek Fisher until next year as I think that ball in the face and maybe trying too hard to impress his new team has had a negative effect on his confidence - I don't have high hopes but I'm willing to wait until next season.
    [ Reply to This ]
    hypobole - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#381321) #
    I wonder how badly the DBacks want to compete next year. $17 million next year. 2 of their 4 most used OF's are back next year. They have the 5th best farm per FG. They owe Yasmany Thomas $17 on the last year of his deal.

    Sending an OF to Zona for Thomas and a prospect(s) seems a match made in heaven for the Jays.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Shoeless Joe - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#381323) #
    Fisher has power, speed and doesn't chase pitches outside of the zone. I still think there is a lot to work with there.

    The biggest problem affecting him is being lefty bat who hits a lot of grounders. He has a 0.344 wOBA with no shift and a 0.249 wOBA against the shift in 2019, and he needs to either hit the ball the other way or elevate the ball.
    [ Reply to This ]
    SK in NJ - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#381326) #
    I don't mind giving Fisher a shot, as I said the offensive skills are there, but he needs to be at least playable in one of the OF spots. For his sake I hope it is just nerves and something correctable next season. As far as the trade, it seems like a meaningless trade for all sides. I could see both Sanchez and Biagini being non-tendered after this season, and Fisher is out of options so in an organization that wanted to win he'd be a DFA candidate (on this team though he might be given more chances). Stevenson is really the wild card, and he'll need to show something other than a high BB% before he becomes a real prospect.

    I didn't like the deal for the Jays at the time and still don't (Fisher could have been had for free or damn close to it in the winter) but unless Stevenson really becomes a good player it probably won't hurt much.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Nigel - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#381327) #
    Fisher's defence reminds me of Ezequiel Cabrera. The defensive metrics for Cabrera (up to his last year with the Jays) suggested that he was an average to slightly below average defender. But he wasn't. He was prone to some pretty large mishaps (bad routes, misjudging balls, wrong cutoff man) that didn't always show up in fielding % or in the traditional range metrics. From what I've seen so far, Fisher is that guy.
    [ Reply to This ]
    uglyone - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#381328) #
    How pissed off do you think our FO is that after spending all these years collecting all this junk waiting for one to POP, that they only gave Gio Urshela 46pa in MLB and 91pa in AAA before cutting him loose?
    [ Reply to This ]
    tercet - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#381329) #
    Or Jon Berti who has put in 1.5 fWAR with the Marlins in 225~ PA
    [ Reply to This ]
    bpoz - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 01:31 PM EDT (#381330) #
    I listened to Baseball central, 1st half, on the fan today. No J Blair. K Barker and S McArthur I think. I love Barker.

    The ball is juiced so anyone can hit Hrs to all fields. Barker asked Shapiro in an earlier interview how you can evaluate a hitter with this kind of ball. Shapiro probably answered but the answer was not given.

    Barker discussed the Jays defense in detail. Bottom line it has to improve. Barker asked which non catcher of the Jays regulars was the best defensive player. Bichette who should get better and Grichuk who is not bad. Boston has 5 good defenders. Bogaerts, Moreland and the 3 OFs. I guess Betts, Benintendi and Bradley Jr.

    TB has V good defense so maybe that is 1 reason why they win.

    You have to get 27 outs in a game. Mistakes and plays not made could make it 31 outs. Pitchers that need their defense would suffer. I think the shift protects the IFs but not the OFs.

    I lost interest when the topic of butter tarts came up. Maybe the 2nd half explained more details about the Jays.
    [ Reply to This ]
    bpoz - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#381332) #
    The positive going forward is probably that certain things can be taught to young players.

    Another pitch. Better control and command.

    How to improve OF and IF defense.

    Gurriel's IF defense was too terrible to correct so he was sent down for example. Others were sent down to improve on recognizing pitch location and what type of pitch it is.

    Extended ST is used a lot by the Jays, maybe to teach. SWR did not get any Extended ST with the Mets but Kloff and G Moreno got a lot.

    This makes some sense for the Jays rebuild plan.
    [ Reply to This ]
    Vulg - Friday, September 13 2019 @ 06:12 PM EDT (#381342) #
    I don't mind giving Fisher a shot, as I said the offensive skills are there, but he needs to be at least playable in one of the OF spots.

    Fisher's defensive issues aside, I guess I'm in the minority with respect to trusting what he's shown offensively. Magpie challenged my assertion that he has the same 'offensive profile' as Grichuk, and there was definite merit to the fact that Fisher both walks and strikes out more. However the net result is a very similar OBP (Grichuk is actually 13 points higher) across their respective MLB ABs; Fisher's slugging is significantly lower.

    Maybe the Jays will 'only' give Fisher a 5 year, $40M deal accordingly :)
    [ Reply to This ]
    BlueJayWay - Saturday, September 14 2019 @ 07:46 AM EDT (#381358) #
    Fisher could be the 4th outfielder who plays anywhere. He's a left bat who can take a walk and steal a base.
    It's too bad he's got reverse splits.

    I wouldn't worry about the reverse splits. Given a large enough sample size hitters always end up with a split in the normal direction.
    [ Reply to This ]
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