Great at bat, Freddy. Great at bat.

Blue Jays win....Blue Jays win

The-e-e-e-e Blue Jays WIN!

Apart from some bad umpiring, a very good game.

Would be nice to win this series, but the match ups are getting increasingly more difficult.

I'd rest the the lefties against Paxton and bring Tellez back against Happ.

Feels great to beat the NYY.

Teoscar is back, Davis to Buffalo.

60 games in and the team's slash line is 219/285/377 for a 78 OPS+.

I haven't watched a whole lot this year. When I have, that's exactly what it has looked like.

Eno Sarris at The Athletic yesterday asked which was the unluckiest team in MLB. By wOBA vs xwOBA, only the Marlins hitters have been "unluckier" than the Jays hitters.

We're really bad, just not quite as really bad as the results so far.

Smoak I think is mostly explained by the extreme shiftability. 2nd highest pull% and 2nd lowest oppo% on the team. Pretty high fly ball% too.

Maile and Davis I would attribute to weak contact. The only guys over 30% soft contact and they're way over.

Vladdy and Jansen look unlucky. Both are making good contact, not pulling the ball, and avoiding too many football.

Atkins met with the media before tonights game. According to Wilner, Teoscar is now the primary centre fielder. He played there a lot in Buffalo.

That's.....crazy?

You never know, it might be easier than playing left. Its a more athletic position and Teoscar does have some speed. Whether he can make the plays against the wall or dive plays coming in is an unknown.

With Teoscar Hernandez in center field, it's clear the tank is on! Only KC and Baltimore stand in the way of the number one overall pick. They've caught Miami for third worst record overall.

Teoscar played centerfield in 2016 and 2017.  He didn't look out of place there- frankly, he looked better than he did in left field especially with the lights in Toronto.  I'm not suggesting that it's a good idea though.  I would have given Davis a longer look. 

Rob Longley
✔
@longleysunsport
“We didn’t expect this. We thought we’d be in a better spot.” #Bluejays GM Ross Atkins in the team’s struggles.

24
4:56 PM - Jun 5, 2019

Thanks UO. It has been a very stressful year for Atkins and the Jay's coaching staff.

Terrible injuries. Under performances as well.

I thought the team would be better - didn't think all of Borucki, Shoemaker and Buchholz would be injured at the same time. Thought like most Vlad would hit the ground running once he got called up and not every other young player would seemingly take a step backward.

Teoscar in CF? Ummm, ok. That's why I bet the under in Vegas before the season started. I thought that the team would be this bad and I didn't think that Borucki and Shoemaker would be injured. My pessimism was based on the idea that, other than Stroman, I wasn't confident that there was another 2 WAR or better player on the team. I was definitely hopeful that Jansen and Vladdy could be 2 WAR players but I wasn't confident that they would be so in 2019.

Teoscar played centerfield in 2016 and 2017.

As well as most of his minor league career, roughly two-thirds of which was spent playing CF and the rest playing RF.

Tbh, Sogard, gurriel, Thornton, Giles, and Shoemaker's excellence when healthy are all performances well above my expectations.

Biggio just really looks like a ballplayer to me.

Last night the Jays got a benefit from a bad strike call on Grichuk before he homered. Tonight Thornton struck out Frazier but strike three was called a ball. He walked and that runner scored.

Kimbrel signs with the Cubs, which takes them likely out of the running for Giles. I was really starting to get behind a trade for Brennan Davis + a pitcher. I would say with Kimbrel off the Baird the market for Giles should heat up now.

Biggio just really looks like a ballplayer to me.

Like how Zach Stewart looked like a ballplayer?

;)

A fun win for the home team.

And Teoscar looked good in centre.

Consecutive wins for the first time since April. Baby steps.

Very hard to figure out the Jays.

". I was really starting to get behind a trade for Brennan Davis + a pitcher. I would say with Kimbrel off the Baird the market for Giles should heat up now."

And Stroman once Keuchel signs. For Giles, I see almost every team in on him. (Everyone needs more relievers). Pretty much every team except Yankees and Astros need help. Braves have biggest need and most prospects including a lot of pitchers which should be an interest for the Jays but they don't seem to be interested in giving up prospects yet but you have to figure that will change at some point. Cubs had a pretty weak system so not a lot of wiggle room for trades. I'm trying to see what I think the value for Giles should be but there are not a lot of comparisons. Doolittle maybe most similar but he had a much better contract situation when he was traded (3.5 years on cheap contract as opposed to 1.5). Mostly, you have rentals. Doolittle was traded with Ryan Madson as well but the return of Treinen, Neuse, and Luzardo was great. Rangers traded Kela who is not quite as good as Giles but had a better contract and got a 50 and a 45 FV prospect for him. I do think teams have become extremely reluctant to trade real prospects in the past couple of years which makes it even harder to gauge the market.

Maybe the problem was that they were not playing the Yankees early on.

I really don't like Derek Law. Which is OK, since he's not going to be on the team for very long.

They hit well against one the best Yankees starter and their entire bullpen.

Boone lost his challenge and was fuming on every close play that didn't go his way.
Really fun to watch.

That's 2 for 5 for Hernandez with a stolen base and 2 RBI. Welcome back. We'll take that from centerfield.

Biggio has 6 walks and 5 Ks in his last 5 games. You can hit .200 when you're doing that.

With Didi likely beating Tulo back to the Yankees lineup, it looks like the "Great Leader" will take his ball and go home perhaps calling it a career - really enjoyed the Tulo "revenge tour", especially that spring training homer he hit in his 1st AB against the evil Jays who had the temerity to release the great man.

People are calling Tulo to retire.

Unless I am mistaken, which is possible, if he retires he stops getting paid.

He isn't going to retire, but neither is he going to play again.

so this is apparently the first homer ever off a Zach Britton slider below the zone: https://www.mlb.com/video/statcast-vlad-jr-s-434-ft-hr

I am very impressed with coming back and crushing the NYY 11-7 after being behind 7-4 in the 6th inning.

https://www.mlb.com/video/statcast-vlad-jr-s-434-ft-hr

That is one heck of a shot from below the knees.

I hope Teoscar really has figured it out as it would take some pressure off the rest of the offence. He’s worth a shot in centre as he has the speed, and most of his challenges to date seem to be bad reads. Must admit I had challenges switching from centre to the corners so it could be his major issue. He’ll never be a gold glove but acceptable defence with last year’s bat would certainly play.

This is a good year to determine the value of good offense/bad defense VS good defense/ bad offense.

I am quite sure that sacrificing defense is the preferred choice. I believe that teams will accept the bad defense.

However good defense is superior at catcher and CF.

Ross Atkins just interviewed on PTS...when talking about starting pitching and possible moves said that they would not be hesitant to move up either Murphy or Diaz to bigs from AA this year. Pearson would not be a candidate for promotion due to innings issues. He also said that Zeuch and Merryweather are about to become active and could also be in the mix later in season.

FG chat today:

count123: The market for closers is heating up .It seems inevitable that Jays trade Giles – do you agree? If the Jays were to trade Giles for a single prospect what FV IYO would that prospect likely need to have. 45 ? – 50 ? – more – less ????

Craig Edwards: I think a 45 sounds about right.

For context, our 45's at the start of the season were SRF, Smith, Kloff, Pardinho and Thornton.

MLB pipeline has Pardinho at 55, SRF and Kloff at 50 and Zeuch at 45.

Besides just the number, you have to consider upside vs risk.
I wasn't a fan of the Happ trade, but I don't know what was on the table.
What other top relievers are available?

Pipeline has scouting grades, which are a bit different than the FV FG uses.

Thanks Peter G for that info. Murphy and Diaz being possible promotion to the Majors makes sense.

I expect SRF to be up as well. I would be very disappointed if his struggles continue so that a promotion could be harmful.

I suspected Atkins had a plan. Brito and Hanson were decent gambles that failed. All the pitchers were more desperate. Borucki, SRF and Zeuch were not available. Their "just in case" Shoemaker, Buchholz and Richardson have spent time on the DL. E Jackson is probably ok at best.

Atkins contract extended

Is it possible that Edwin Jackson's Best By date has come and gone?

Checking...

A good half season in Oakland last year...
Bad in 2017
Bad in 2016
Pitched relief, well, in 2015
Bad in 2014
Bad in 2013

He looks like he can still pitch. Just can't get people out.

Jackson should try becoming a long reliever. I think he can succeed in the pen.

Atlanta signs Keuchel. 1 yr $13 million.

Giles is one of the best closers in the game. I'd much rather extend him than trade him. If all they can get is guy like Zeuch, I think that would be a big mistake. When the team is a contender in a year or two, they'll have to trade for a closer, probably get a guy who isn't as good as Giles, and quite possibly give up more than what they got for Giles. He's only 28, and his numbers are eye popping. In 25 IP, he's got 42 K's and only 7 BB's. I'd only be interested in trading him if he doesn't want to sign an extension, or if somebody made a huge offer.

I believe they can much more for Giles than Edwards suggested.

Congratulations to Atkins.

Atkins contract extended
Not exactly one of the extensions I was hoping for...

"With Didi likely beating Tulo back to the Yankees lineup, it looks like the "Great Leader" will take his ball and go home perhaps calling it a career - really enjoyed the Tulo "revenge tour", especially that spring training homer he hit in his 1st AB against the evil Jays who had the temerity to release the great man."

I hope you enjoyed it more than his career which dwarfs any blue jays hitter career since I don't know...Delgado?

Your comment might be less foolish if you weren't " enjoying" a Blue Jays team led by the wily veteran duo of Luke Maile and Freddy Galvis with an injured/hobbling Justin Smoak as the headline. Emphasis on "might," since the only temerity around here is your hating of an MLB player more successful than any Blue Jays hitter since Delgado.

But keep your posts about Tulo coming, it gives me something entertaining to follow this season, a little.

He didn’t call his career a failure. He called his current season with Yankees a failure, which it has been. Still lots of time left, but at this point it really looks like the FO made the right call by letting him go

dalimon, you prompted the comment. Instead of just posting somthing like "I'm glad for him to be in a position to do well on a good team", you mocked the FO for their call on multiple occasions and proclaimed the "revenge tour".

Teoscar is back!

(I don't why, but I just like him.)

It looks like Tulo's career is over, and it was a great one. Too bad about the injuries that took their toll. He is wrapping up at the same time as Dustin Pedroia. In certain ways, they reminded me of one another. (Honestly, it could just be because I have both of them in my strat keeper league...)

Dwight Smith ran into the wall yesterday and the wall won. His manager said he could be out for a while. He is being evaluated for concussion, a shoulder injury and a jaw injury.

One of the most dissappointing things about the last few years is how they've caused so many Toronto fans to turn against and hate on all the stars that gave us the only good team we've had in 25yrs.

"Hate on all the stars" sounds pretty extreme. Can you give examples?

Mike Green, you are right that Stroman and Giles are the Jays best pitchers presently but will that still be true in 2021/22 which is when I hope the Jays will be contenders - I don't think so which is why I'm for aggressively marketing them now - I know you are more optimistic about how quickly the Jays will be contending again and from that point of view I can see the argument for keeping them - I hope Atkins goes for more upside rather than his seeming obsession with players close to the majors that marked last year deadline trades.

"dalimon, you prompted the comment. Instead of just posting somthing like "I'm glad for him to be in a position to do well on a good team", you mocked the FO for their call on multiple occasions and proclaimed the "revenge tour".

Only thing I will admit to is the proclamation of the revenge tour. I've never mocked the front office, rather defended Tulo against the waves of haters in this forum whose main excuse for hate was his contract until it became his health and now for one poster it has become the proclamation of another poster. Go through the archives if you like and look at all the comments i've made on Tulo and you will see you're simply incorrect - as I have been, so far, on Tulo's season.

Mathesond -

Tulo, price, Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin

As a long-time infrequent poster (15 years? Most of us have been around forever it seems), I'll take issue with two thinks UO said. First, the Jays have had lots of good teams in the past 25 years aside from the playoff teams. Since winning in 1993, the Jays have had a winning record 12 times, and were consistently good (2004 aside) from 1998-2011. "Good" has been a frustratingly accurate description of the Jays a lot of years, but no where near as demoralizing as rooting for a truly awful team. Kansas City may have won a WS, but I'd rather cheer for the JAys 1994-2018 than them. 5 winning years, 15 years with 90+ losses (I'm calling this year early for them) compared to just 1 year with more than 90 losses for the Jays. I don't buy the "championships or bust" fandom mode that has become more prevalent over the years, but your mileage may vary.

I also don't see how Jays fans turned on any of the listed stars (Tulo, price, Bautista, Donaldson, Edwin), although I am thankfully removed from sports radio, so maybe it's bad elsewhere? Price is "hated" because he signed with a hated rival, and Tulo did the same while talking himself up and crapping a bit on the Jays as he went out the door. His injury problems this year are unfortunate, and the least surprising injured player in MLB. But aside from the Jays not signing them (which made sense at the time, and still does in retrospect), I'm still rooting for the other guys. I hope Edwin gets to 500 HRs (103 to go!), and Donaldson gets some MVP-form back. I wish Bautista could have found another job this year.

I'll apologise dalimon. Not going to go through all the archives, but at the time of the release, it wasn't you who mocked the FO, it was our official FO mocker who did.

I am happy that Atkins has been extended. This means that ownership is pleased with his performance. I like Shapiro too. To be clear I am not criticizing any previous employees with the above statement.

Shaoiro: He wanted to start the rebuild 2 years ago. So after 2016? But he kindly did not and instead tried to compete in 2017 and 2018. I have not heard his future goals about winning. Maybe he will take 85-90 wins and would be happy to hit on 87 often.

If in contention in early July he would likely bolster the team with small moves to cash in on the revenue for being in a pennant race.

If contending for the division title and the team looks like it is strong enough to win the WS then he may make bolder moves.

He has a nice personality and has been very honest in saying that developing SPs is the biggest goal because they are the most valuable type of player as well as good closers. So the Biagini experiment backs up what he says. He will also have many failures. Biagini again.

You'll have to refresh my memory. When did the fans start hating Bautista & Encarnacion? As for Price, he was a long time Jays killer who played with the team for less than 3 months before taking $31M/year to go to another division rival. And do fans really hate Donaldson now? I haven't listened to sport radio since, oh, 2001, so you are likely more in touch with the pulse of Jays fans than I am.

Honestly i feel like only getting a 1yr extension is kind of weird. Not exactly a vote of confidence in the rebuild.

Atkins: My opinion.

1) Injuries and non performance hurt badly in 2017 and 2018. Goins for Tulo/Travis. And Grilli could no longer do it. Quite a few more examples.
Atkins came up with the strategy of having a lot of depth. A Diaz was quality depth.

2) Answering questions is very hard. He handled the Vlad delayed promotion very well. He spoke some words!!! Everyone knew what was happening and the reason why except MAYBE some/many fans. Because of da Box I knew what was happening. The radio staff spent a lot of time talking and guessing when Vlad would be back. That was probably very interesting to the fans who did not figure it out.

3) Hardly any prospects were traded and many were added. Atkins knew a rebuild was going to happen.

4) I feel that he did not give any false information. He did say that the team would contend in 2021. So not 2019 and 2020.
I thought otherwise as did a few other optimistic Bauxites. My optimistic reasoning was that the pitching could be good if healthy. Borucki and numerous vets could not stay healthy. The offense could be better. Unfortunately the youth have let us down except Tellez who is doing fairy well as he learns the Majors.

5) He started accumulating players at the 2018 trading deadline and is still adding players. E Jackson is the most recent addition and he is an established name. Who was the best of the established names?? Shoemaker, Richard, Buchholz etc... Jackson is as good to me until he started to pitch.

Atkins did not say anything about the Happ trade which was the only trade that had anything of value to deal. McKinney and Drury were ML ready or close. McKinney not making the 2018 NYY is not a shame. Drury was injured goods and so it is possible that Cashman fleeced Atkins. I don't think Cashman would do that because his job is to acquire mainly good players. Many will not trade with him if he habitually acquires good players while giving up mediocre players unless it is a salary dump by the other team.

I keep wondering why Oakland did not get Happ. They needed SPs badly. Also did Atkins prefer close to ready ML players VS pure prospects.

Looking at Oakland's and NYY's current top 10 prospects as targets that Atkins turned down. Please note the I AM SPECULATING!!!

Oakland: #1 J Luzardo, #10 J Eierman. Or the other 8 guys.

NYY: #1 E Florial, #10 R Contreras. Or the other 8 guys. Of course the prospects should actually be from the July 2018 list.

The length of Atkins contract extension hasn't been disclosed to my knowledge (I may stand to be corrected) - the reporter only noted that it's at least through 2020.

I won't be surprised if the extension is only for one year. I think the heat on the front office from Rogers is going to go up quite quickly. It's entirely possible (I think quite likely) that at the end of the 2020 season the Jays will be coming off back to back 90+ loss seasons and drawing flies at all home dates other than weekend series with the NYY and Boston. I would expect a FO review to take place at that time. It will have been five and half years with this FO group. I'm not prognosticating what the decision will be or suggesting what it should be (I really have no clue) but public companies take revenue losses pretty darn seriously.

drawing flies at all home dates other than weekend series with the NYY and Boston

Let's hope Canada does not build a wall. Most of those attendees will be Mercans.

Edwin Jackson is obviously done.

He has milked a long career by looking like he should be a good pitcher. $80M for 9 WAR over 13 years. Enough already MLB. Send him home.

He should learn a knuckleball, then start a fresh tour of duty across both leagues as a journeyman SP.

I have a hunch Shapiro's leash is longer than Atkins'. If the decision to not sell at the 2017 deadline and go for it last year came from Shapiro, then yeah, both he and Atkins are on thin ice. If Rogers was behind the call, Shapiro will almost certainly be given the opportunity to see the rebuild through.

As for Atkins, he's done very little to make himself or his boss look good. The easy part, tearing it down, is pretty well finished. Atkins is going to have to show some real progress in building it back up.

Oh, and a :) for greenfrog.

We will know the job security of Atkins and Shapiro in 2021 and beyond as it unfolds. If 90+ losses causes revenue to plunge then someone has been very short sighted. I mean Atkins and Shapiro did not see the writing on the wall.

Atlanta lost 90 games in 2017 and won 90 games in 2018. If people in baseball want to give AA credit for 2018, that is ok with me. But he inherited a good farm and possibly a good core.

In Toronto We lost 86 games in 2017 and 89 games in 2018. Both seasons with a high payroll. 2019 looks like a 90+ loss season but with a low payroll. Payroll should be the same or lower in 2020. The losses may be high or not. We are a part of the V tough ALE.

If TB can win in the ALE with a V low payroll then the Jays should be able to do the same.

The following math should be correct. 54 wins 46 losses for the rest of the season gives us an 85 loss season.

I would hope the priorities for the rest of the year are to continue to allow the kids to get experience by playing them. Trade Smoak to free up ABs. Continue with promotions if any other prospects look deserving.

If you are going to lose your job after 2020 because you had a terrible team then don't trade Stroman, Sanchez and Giles. They will still be cheap in 2020. May as well keep Smoak for the rest of the year. Should not have given IF ABs to Hanson when Urena was outplaying him.

TB would have traded all of Sanchez, Giles, Stroman and Smoak by now.
They finished 5th in 2016 and they haven't made the playoffs since 2013.

And they have no attendance.

Nah. I think everything is going according to the script.
Except for the pitching injuries, the hitters not hitting and sitting Guerrero on Victoria Day.

If some of the hitters eventually figure it out, as they should, the bad results will just lead to a better draft next year.
It would take some epic performance going forward to climb back to a 10th overall pick.

Next year, they need to be back to .500.
The roster will change quite a bit before we get there.

Not sure if the crowd will come back if they start playing better, but tonight most of the fans should be watching the Raptors.

It's been confirmed to be only one year.
It's hard to know what falls strictly under Atkins' control and what is driven by Shapiro.
PR, certainly.

375227) #
Nah. I think everything is going according to the script.
Except for the pitching injuries, the hitters not hitting and sitting Guerrero on Victoria Day.

That's like writing a comedy script ant getting a horrow story. Hitter's not hitting is like a big problem.