Already said a while back I'd look to trade Diaz if the return was right. Too many infielders coming off down years need playing time to hopefully regain some value. Plus 3rd base will be taken for the foreseeable future.

Diaz actually has value, but unless he gets playing time, he's just an asset being wasted.

After a slow start with his new team, something that's not unusual, Diaz slashed .282/.320/.474/.794 from Apr 30 to the end of the year. He was battling some injuries in 2017, but in 2016 he was at .300/.369/.510/.879. In both 2016 and 2018 he hit HR's at about a 25 per full season pace. He's a better hitter than people give him credit for. Defensively, he's not great at SS, but I thought he looked good at 3B. Given that 3B is spoken for here, maybe he should be tried at 2B. I think he has a fair bit of value - he's not a free agent until 2023, and isn't even arb eligible this year. I think they can put up with his defense at SS next year if they don't think they can contend for a playoff spot. If he's having a good season, you could probably trade him for something fairly significant. If they trade him this offseason, it probably means they are going with Gurriel at SS, and I'd rather see Gurriel tried in the OF. As in any evaluation of possibly trading a player, it depends on what you can get for him. I'd want a pretty significant prospect for Diaz.

dan you forgetting Tulo? Plus we we have Drury. But yeah, Diaz should have value.

Nope, not forgetting Tulo. I said at the start of this season that I thought he was likely finished, and I believe that even stronger now. At his age, coming off 3 major surgeries (1 ankle and 1 on each foot), not having played for almost 2 years as of next spring, a long history of major injuries, I think the chance that he's ever a decent major league player again is very small.

I don't think Drury is going to be an effective player. If you account for the extreme hitters' park he played in for 2016 and 2017, his numbers are very unexciting. Probably has a few seasons as a decent backup infielder. He has some pretty good defensive numbers at 2B, some pretty bad defensive numbers at 3B, and he's certainly no SS. His career road slash numbers are .236/.281/.365/.646, and I figure that's about what he is - maybe he improves a little, as he's 26 and could have a little more in the tank. Frankly, if I was running the team he'd be a non-tender candidate, as he's arb eligible for 2019 and is likely just to take away AB's from somebody who could actually develop into a productive player.

On the shortstop front, Gregorius is out for 8 to 12 months. He's arbitration eligible for about 12M and on his last year, which makes him an obvious non-tender candidate. The Yankees could go after Machado who will command a huge contract or go with in house options which would seem to set them up for a third consecutive wild card.

Travis is also mentioned as a trade candidate for second base. I'm not expecting much in return.

And it didn't take long for Sonny Gray to be put on the blocks.
I'm still not sure if that trade was worst for Oakland or New York.

After a slow start with his new team, something that's not unusual

Is that really true? Or is it just an excuse to select preferred end points? I don't pretend to know but I just feel like this kind of thing is narrative-driven and not necessarily based on empirical evidence.

Solarte was a counterpoint. He started strong and finished poorly. Of course narratives to explain his arc are plentiful. He was over-exposed, he was not used to playing so much, the league figured him out, etc. (While the league was figuring out Solarte, Diaz and Grichuk were figuring out the league.)

I guess my caution is that using narratives to drive end points is a less than sober way to make objective assessments.

If the team wants Gurriel to play short regardless of defensive ability, then the best lineup the Jays can field internally is Diaz at third, Gurriel at short, and Drury at second. Like others I don't expect Tulo to play for the Jays again, and while Travis is cheap enough to bring back (especially since has options left) it is debatable whether he will ever be a starting 2B again given his injuries/decline in performance.

As far as trading Diaz, trading anyone for the right price should be considered. He has four years of control left and is still cheap, so he should have value. On the flip side, with four years remaining, he'll have value to the early Vlad years as well (assuming he can remain a league average or better bat that can cover all infield positions). If someone offers a great deal, then do it. If not, no issues holding on to him, at least until more of the IF prospects start to filter up (Bichette, Biggio, etc).

Grichuk had some mechanical issues that he sorted out when hurt.
Diaz is a great fastball hitter who swings at the first pitch.
I'm hoping they'll both have good Aprils but I'd have more confidence in that if there were no changes in the coaching staff.

Drury's AAA numbers although small sample size last year, give me hope. He was much better than he was in AAA a few years before with similar luck. Especially as he apparently had blurry vision before. Anyway, he is probably a 1-1.5 WAR player with versatility even if he doesn't improve projected to make around $1.4M. Not even close to a non-tender candidate.

There was an article prior to the 2018 season mentioning how Drury wanted to increase his launch angle to hit more home runs and worked with Robert Van Scoyoc that off-season to help with that (apparently the one who helped JD Martinez last season). It's a very small sample size, but Drury's launch angle in 2018 was 13.4, which was significantly higher than in previous years. We won't know if that would have manifested into something since he got hurt, then demoted, then traded, then hurt again.

I don't think the Jays acquired him to be what he was in the past, but rather they think he will be better with adjustments and maybe tap into his power potential. At age 26, with 3-4 years of control left (he was demoted so don't know he has three full seasons or is a Super 2), it wouldn't be unreasonable to see him improve, especially if it's related to changing his swing path or other similar adjustments.

New York Yankees acquired Brandon Drury to be their Starting 3B so the Star Rookie didn't have to be rushed. Between not mentioning blurred vision and migraines that he's had for years and an elbow injury in Spring Training, it wasn't long before he hit the D.L. to stay. The Star Rookie turned out to be a Stud, even better than projected and Brandon Drury's career as a Yankee was basically over. More fool them.

Brandon Drury 2B/LF/RF/3B is under contract through 2022.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/drurybr01.shtml
I don't think he goes anywhere with that much control remaining.

Aledmys Diaz SS/3B is under contract through 2023.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/d/diazal02.shtml
You don't need great, just good Players. That's what he is.

Lourdes Gurriel Jr. SS/2B is under contract through 2023.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=gourri000lou
He had a breakout year in 2018 offensively and might have an improvement defensively with regular playing time.

The SS/2B/3B situation for 2019/2020 will be an interesting one to watch this winter and into the spring.

Injured and near impossible to trade: Tulo
Limited to 2B: Travis
"Plays" SS: Gurriel, Diaz, Urena, Drury, Martin
In minors SS: Bo Bichette
In minors 3B: Vlad (well, until mid-April)
In minors 2B: Biggio, more likely 1B/RF/3B but we'll see - he did play once at SS too.
Likely gone: Solarte, Berti
Actually did play at 3B: Morales (1 inning on July 2nd, Smoak in for Diaz and goes to 1B, Travis in for Solarte no plays or any near him)

Santiago Espinal played in AA for the Jays last year (286/354/395) after coming from Boston where he didn't get higher than A+ and is 24 next season and was acquired in the Steve Pearce deal...hmm, that might work out if he is decent defensively (no idea offhand).

So I see Travis/Tulo/Gurriel to start, with Diaz mixed in somewhere everyday (maybe Gurriel moving around) until Vlad arrives, then all heck breaks loose. Or we see trades, trades, trades. I'm betting on lots of trades then tons of debate all spring about what to do with Tulo. In the end an IF of Gurriel/Diaz/Vlad with Drury and Martin the backups (ugly on defense, but should be solid on offense) by mid-summer, and 2020 will see Gurriel/Bo/Vlad and some other kids for backup, maybe Drury, or we could see Vlad or Gurriel or both move to the OF and Diaz kept. One thing is for sure - it'll be fun to watch with tons of debates and hopefully no more Morales at 3B.

The main focus next spring is whether Tulo can come back to play nearly every day, or even at all. Many have speculated he won't be able to after nearly two years away and I,too, am sceptical. A lot of the jockeying on the infield will depend on his status.

Nobody truly knows what Tulo will be. Victor Martinez missed his entire age 33 season, then came back to have seasons of 113 and 172 OPS+ at ages 34 and 35.

There were 2 differences though. The Martinez injury was sudden rather than both sudden and chronic. And Martinez had a 131 OPS+ prior to his injury, as opposed to Tulo's 80. How much of Tulo's issues were related to his heel(s)? None of us can know.

Per Atkins' comments, it seems Tulo will get first crack at the starter job, but there will be a leash. How long that leash will be is again something none of us know.

Right now, the Tulo situation is akin to Churchill's Russia comment - "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma".

The Russian mystery was that Stalin was allied with Hitler until he turned on him.

The Tulo situation is less nefarious. It's just that nobody knows how much he's aged and how healthy he'll be.
Bird, incidentally, hasn't recovered well.

If Tulo cannot play up to the lowest FO expectations, they will have to make a calculation.
1) How much of the $38 mil left are they prepared to basically write off? By limiting his role. How will that affect the clubhouse atmosphere negatively?
2) By playing him do they slow the rebuild? How much?

Because the quicker they start to win the sooner the revenues start pouring in.

It's quite simple in my opinion. If Tulo comes back as Tulo then he's your starting shortstop for all of 2019. Healthy Tulo means you are getting a clubhouse leader and a player that is 1.5-2WAR as a floor. It's a no brainer.

If Tulo comes back and is just a clubhouse guy who can't field SS or hit like he has in the past or if his last 2 years of playing stats were NOT affected by injury but age decline instead (which he has said is due to playing injured) - then there's no question you cut bait and move on.

I understand the posters wanting to see which Tulo comes back. I don't understand the ones that want to dismiss him before his trial even begins. If he's junk upon return then you find an alternative then. It's like anything. If Vlad can't lay off pitches and struggles with major league pitching, baserunning and defence then you deal with it then.

"understand the posters wanting to see which Tulo comes back. I don't understand the ones that want to dismiss him before his trial even begins."

A whole bunch of reasons
1) Good Tulo of three years ago is still worse than Diaz. You need the Tulo of five years ago to be an upgrade. That's not going to happen.
2) There is no chance Tulo is around when the Jays are competitive.
3) Giving Tulo a shot means not giving it to someone else. Can Gurriel be a SS? I don't know but I'd rather find that out then find out if Tulo is a 0 WAR or a 1 WAR player.
4) the chance of 34 yo with tons of injuries being as good as he was at 31 is extremely remote.
5) there is no shot Tulo will ever have trade value. He's getting paid like a star and has an extensive injury history. Best case scenario, Jays only have to pay down some of his salary?
6) When does this end? Tulo gets off to a bad start and it's " he has been off for two years, he needs to get back in the groove", he gets hurt and it's "we have to wait to see what he's like when he's healthy". Hes been useless for two years, he hasn't been a very good player ever in Toronto. He's 34 years old. What's the point?

can we put you down in the get rid of Tulo camp?

Glevin wrote:

"A whole bunch of reasons
1) Good Tulo of three years ago is still worse than Diaz. You need the Tulo of five years ago to be an upgrade. That's not going to happen."
----> 2 Years ago... Tulo 2016 - 3.4 WAR 3 Years ago...Tulo 2015 2.8 WAR 5 Years ago... Tulo 2014 5.5 WAR
--------------> Diaz 2016 WAR 3.4 WAR (his best to date in STL) Diaz 2018 WAR 1.4 WAR

Conclusion...You're blowing a whole bunch of smoke in the wrong direction. Tulo's last full season was worth roughly twice the WAR of Diaz' 2018.

"2) There is no chance Tulo is around when the Jays are competitive."
- By that logic you should be throwing Stroman, Sanchez, Travis and Pillar into the same category as Tulo. Actually, why field a team at all for 2019 or 2020? Wait...Vlad isn't what he's cracked up to be? That's okay...let's not field a team until 2025 when he hits his peak and there's zero wasted value anywhere else on the diamond. Yeah...that'll work real good!

"3) Giving Tulo a shot means not giving it to someone else. Can Gurriel be a SS? I don't know but I'd rather find that out then find out if Tulo is a 0 WAR or a 1 WAR player."
----> Let me get this straight, you would rather take Tulo's worst injury shortened season, take his last full season which is clearly calculated as being worth more than Gurriel, Diaz or any other SS option...and you want to see if somebody else can be a SS? You "don't know" if they could be but you want to find out if you can turn a non SS into a quality SS than play Tulo. What happens if you find out that Gurriel or Diaz can't play shortstop. Then what? Oops...you forgot to consider the other part of your fantasy videogame rationale...you know...the real part where we don't have a SS until farm prospects develop.

"4) the chance of 34 yo with tons of injuries being as good as he was at 31 is extremely remote."
--->Agreed but he doesn't have to be that good, and the likelihood of a Cuban OF or back up infielder becoming a more valuable SS is even less likely.

"5) there is no shot Tulo will ever have trade value. He's getting paid like a star and has an extensive injury history. Best case scenario, Jays only have to pay down some of his salary?"
---> Wake up...players with trade value are under 25, paid minimum or way below fair value and here's a newsflash...they're not being traded. Why on earth would we need to get trade value for any 30+ veteran on our team? Go back to your videogame mentality where you want to compare Tulo to a 97 rating in videogameland.

"6) When does this end? Tulo gets off to a bad start and it's " he has been off for two years, he needs to get back in the groove", he gets hurt and it's "we have to wait to see what he's like when he's healthy". Hes been useless for two years, he hasn't been a very good player ever in Toronto. He's 34 years old. What's the point?"
----> It ends when you have a short stop that can play SS with above average defense, 20+ home run power, doesn't make errors and when you aren't already paying someone else to do the exact same job. It ends when you realize it's okay to have a SS that isn't a 5.5 WAR player anymore but a team leader with a 0-2 WAR floor that's a perfect bridge and probably a manager in waiting.

You want to run every player out of town that has been injured, lost trade value or if there's a possible cheaper alternative or that's how your post comes across. I'm actually in the camp of clearing out veterans and bringing in youth, but I don't want 25 25 year olds on the baseball club. Sometimes it's good to have grown ups to straighten out the kids, both on the field and in some online forums. There's a much better punching bag at first base you can direct your vitriol towards...wait he was one of our best players in 2018?

Glevin makes sense to me.
So do many others. Tulo will show what he can do. Then decisions will be made.

Tulo being done is the opposite of video game baseball. It’s looking at five year trends where his numbers, almost all his numbers have gotten worse. Hard ball rate, ground ball rate, etc...Dave Cameron was writing about his declining statistics in 2016. He is now A 34 year old who has been declininig for five years, has missed the last year and a half due to injury, and is two years older than any starting shortstop in baseball. He’s at an age where even if he weren’t hurt all the time, he’d probably have to move off SS. I have no idea where this optimism cok s from. It’s certainly not based on any statistical or historical analysis (the phrase wishful thinking comes to mind). And Diaz has been better than Tulowitzki every year. Tulo’s 2014 is about as relevant as Ty Cobb’s 1909. Tulo had 0 WAR this year and 0.1 WAR last year. You can’t remove them because they were injured years. I have no personal animosity to any player in baseball (except those that do abhorrent things in their personal lives). Like many I was super excited when Tulo arrived and have been greatly disappointed that we never got to see th elite player he was for so many years, I am a firm believer that rebuilding teams shouldn’t be blocking young players who are already demonstrably better with mediocre veterans.

Diaz to Yankees for Sonny Gray ?

https://jaysjournal.com/2018/10/14/blue-jays-sonny-gray-aledmys-diaz/

Zero interest in that trade - Gray has one year of control left and is going to cost over $6 million, Diaz 4 or 5 years and isn't yet to arbitration.

Acquiring Troy Tulowitzki in 2015 got the Jays to the Postseason, with flawless Defense throughout remainder of that Season and enough Offense to win some games outright. His great years were well behind, but he still was above average. His Offense and Defense in 2016 (still above average) helped get the Jays back into the Post Season. Until he went on the D.L. to stay in 2017 his Offense and Defense was still good. What is he now? I don't know, nor does anyone else.

If trading a Roster Player in the Offseason, whether in a package or not, a significant piece should/must be coming back. The Jays' biggest need going forward is a Front-Of-The-Rotation Starter or two. Certainly can't have enough of that. Sonny Gray is not and never was quite that.

Sonny Gray makes zero sense. He needs to pitch in another division.

Would I trade Diaz for a decent prospect?

As long as that prospect was at least 'decent', in a heartbeat.

Right now I would have Diaz playing short and Gurriel playing 2nd, bit there ARE other options so if they can get value for him, do it.

A little something on Astros' bench coach Espada, who seems to be on the Jays (among others) managerial list.

https://canoe.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/astros-bench-coach-espada-a-potential-fit-as-blue-jays-manager/wcm/4ed6ff8c-cf44-470c-be41-255b4306c25c

I don't have a favourite for the Jays next manager but I hope that Giants bench coach (previously their hitting coach) Hensley Meulens who's multilingual (Spanish/Japanese/Dutch) and was a finalist for the Yankees job last year and Astros bench coach Joe Espada who was previously the Yankees 3rd base coach both get at least sit down interviews.

Stubby Clapp, who has gotten a lot of pub for the Jays job may make a fine manager but I found it curious that the organisation that should know him best, the Cardinals,chose not to promote him when they fired Mike Matheny and moved rather quickly to remove the intern tag from Mike Shildt when Clapp was available.

According to all known sources, Espada is being interviewed while Meulens is not.

Clapp and John Schneider are great candidates because of their winning pedigree. But neither has spent much time ever on or around a major league roster. That's concerning to me because there's a certain gravitas that is required/expected from an MLB manager and you really don't know if they've got it. You could hire an experienced bench coach (Eric Wedge?) to help mentor a young manager... but I think it makes more sense for Schneider (definitely) and Clapp (possibly) to be a major league coach for a season or two before trying to be a MLB manager.

I think the biggest risk is taking someone with no actual game managing experience like Farrell.
Isn't Eric Wedge older than Gibbons?
With a young team, you need to get everyone to hustle on the field and keep doing practices all year round while making sure everyone is having fun. Some vets like Smoak, Pillar, Martin, even Morales seem like the kind of guys who don't mind going through that--maybe not the hustle part. Nobody has asked to be traded.

Btw, the 2 games in Montreal this year will be against the Brewers.
Very tempting if that's closer to you than Toronto.

In an Yankeecentric view, Gray needs to be traded and they need a middle infielder, ergo trade of Gray against the Jays's best middle infielder.

I'd consider Diaz for one of their top pitching prospect though.

Stroman and Grichuk for Shane Bieber. Thoughts?

Lets see what happens with S Gray. If NYY wants to get rid of him they will IMO. Their return may not matter much to them. They consider themselves an elite org and operate/spend accordingly. They have been willing to eat contracts. S Gray in the pen as a long man may interest them.
The Jays plans have not been announced yet. I don't think that they will be announced.
R Atkins has announced that the young players will play the most. I think almost all of us were not surprised by this. The details of who, where and how much are not clear. He has not said anything about Vlad I believe. I think he is playing that by ear.

His comments about Tulo surprised me. His Martin comments did not surprise me. I am unaware what he has said about any other veterans.
IMO he knows his plans and goals for this off season. I don't think he will tell us.

Jays with 3 top 20 prospects in the Gulf Coast League according to BA...#'s 5, 15 and 19. I think this article is available without subsciption:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/rankings/gulf-coast-league-top-20-prospects/

wondering how the manager search is going. One name that came up this time is Mike Matheney who did a terrible job and seemed to be generally hated in St. Louis. Hard pass. I obviously don’t know who the best fit is but I like Sandy Alomar in the face of things. Experience, Spanish speaker and also comes from a baseball family like a lot of the Jays coming up do. He could also bring Robbie with him as bench coach or something.

What is the history of TB trading with their division rivals? Everyone knows that TB trades stars for prospects. D Price and A Cobb ended up playing for their AL East rivals anyway. So trading with them for their best prospects only changes the time frame.
The positive is that the TB stars will become FAs soon in 2-3 years. So the AL rivals lose the stars potentially and definitely the top prospects. This could be an overall weakening of their AL rivals. TB will find a way to win on their budget and if they do lose nobody gets upset.

Sandy Alomar interviewed for and was described as one of the favourites for the Jays job when John Farrell was hired - I can't think of another name in the last decade that has been linked to more managerial openings and had numerous interviews without actually getting the job than Sandy Alomar - I have formed the opinion that he doesn't interview well and that time may have past him by.

PeterG - thanks for the link, no locks as I don't have a subscription. Here are the 3 and a condensed notes on each (focusing on stuff we don't see in stats)

#5: Jordan Groshans - SS/3B
12th overall pick. He has an above-average arm and showed solid defensive actions, but he’s still cleaning up his defense and might ultimately lack the first-step quickness to stick at shortstop. He squares up good pitching with quick bat speed and plus raw power. Other notes on him too but those caught my eye the most.

#15: Gabriel Moreno - CA
One of the sleepers they found in 2016 was Moreno, a Venezuelan catcher they signed for just $25,000. Signed post-Vlad so no cash left. He rarely strikes out because his hand-eye coordination and barrel control is outstanding. Moreno is an athletic catcher with an average arm and a quick release, though he has to improve his blocking and receiving.

#19: Leonardo Jimenez - SS
The top bonus for a Panamanian player in 2017 went to Jimenez, who signed with the Blue Jays for $825,000. Has played international ball since 12 years old. A smart, instinctive player, fringe-average runner, Jimenez's defensive range is a question mark.

Sandy Alomar has been a candidate for years, for many jobs, not just the Jays. He has continuously been passed over, I wonder why? Does he not interview well?

I am hoping that someone will rescue that poor teenage girl whose car broke down by the side of the road. Rogers insists on telling me her story during every commercial break. Sometimes twice in the same break. Perhaps Rogers can extend their advertising budget and commission a brand new commercial, one we haven't all seen eight million times.

Chuck, I've starting yelling "Don't open the door!" every time my kid goes to open a door.

Hahaha. Thanks I needed that. Chuck, hypobole.

Since Rogers apparently just decided to not accept ads for Faith Goldy's mayoral campaign, they may be short on money.

Well, they retired the ad about the black father/son who sits in the bleachers, probably because the Jays are done. Wasn't there a third ad in that set?

Here is an interesting article on Vlad by Shi Davidi. Among other things, he says that Vlad is not concerned about being held back for 3 weeks next season. Apparently, Vlad said as much in another interview that he did for Stephen Brunt.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/vladimir-guerrero-jr-says-hes-ready-play-blue-jays/

Yup..”I’ve waited 19 years to play in the big-leagues, what’s another three weeks?”. Kid’s only 19 and already showing more maturity than many major leaguers...and fans.

Love him.

"Love him."

Does this mean:

a) I love him.
b) Let's all love him.
c) Other.

Vlad Jr has a millionaire HOF as a father and knows he's going to be a free agent in his mid-20's, so he's probably not sweating the extra couple of weeks in the minors. Of course, that's what makes him much harder to sign to an extension, but either way the Jays have seven years of his prime regardless.

It's going to be a joy to watch him. Hopefully the team around him is good enough by 2020-21 to get 4-5 years of serious contention.

Does this mean:

All of the above

I don't know if others saw this, but apparently the Angles are giving manager candidates a 2 hour written test as part of the application process: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2800949-mlb-rumors-angels-giving-manager-candidates-2-hour-written-test

The extra year doesn't have a huge impact on Guerrero's earning potential.
It's just a 7th year at a high value instead of a year of free agency.
The super two cut off however...That would just be bad for everyone involved.

Angels Evaluator 1: Okay, what did you think of the candidates?

Angels Evaluator 2: Well, Candidate A completed the test in one hour and 57 minutes, answered each question thoughtfully and in detail, and apparently has an aversion to spitting tobacco and sunflower seeds.

Angels Evaluator 1: Yes, but he misspelled several words. How do you misspell Trout?

Angels Evaluator 2: True. It would be hard for him to fill out a lineup card.

Angels Evaluator 1: What happened to Candidate B? He only filled out half of the test!

Angels Evaluator 2: He fell asleep after an hour. I told you he was too old.

Angels Evaluator 1: Yep, you were right. Definitely wouldn't be suitable for extra-inning games.

Angels Evaluator 2: Ah, but look at Candidate C! Excellent cursive writing, correct punctuation, and he even included detailed diagrams of what he hopes to achieve next year.

Angels Evaluator 1: But that was just a picture of what foods he wants in the post-game clubhouse spread.

Angels Evaluator 2: So? It shows he's interested in every facet of the team and cares about the players welfare.

Angels Evaluator 1: Or that he's a glutton. Look, he's got no managerial experience above Little League! Every other candidate is more qualified.

Angels Evaluator 2: Pfft, experience is over-rated. You don't always need experience at a position to be successful. Look at President Trump.

Angels Evaluator 1: Uh, yeah, how about we consider Candidate A again. Spelling isn't everything!

"Angels Evaluator 1: Okay, what did you think of the candidates?

Angels Evaluator 2: Well, Candidate A completed the test in one hour and 57 minutes, answered each question thoughtfully and in detail, and apparently has an aversion to spitting tobacco and sunflower seeds.

Angels Evaluator 1: Yes, but he misspelled several words. How do you misspell Trout?

Angels Evaluator 2: True. It would be hard for him to fill out a lineup card.

Angels Evaluator 1: What happened to Candidate B? He only filled out half of the test!

Angels Evaluator 2: He fell asleep after an hour. I told you he was too old.

Angels Evaluator 1: Yep, you were right. Definitely wouldn't be suitable for extra-inning games.

Angels Evaluator 2: Ah, but look at Candidate C! Excellent cursive writing, correct punctuation, and he even included detailed diagrams of what he hopes to achieve next year.

Angels Evaluator 1: But that was just a picture of what foods he wants in the post-game clubhouse spread.

Angels Evaluator 2: So? It shows he's interested in every facet of the team and cares about the players welfare.

Angels Evaluator 1: Or that he's a glutton. Look, he's got no managerial experience above Little League! Every other candidate is more qualified.

Angels Evaluator 2: Pfft, experience is over-rated. You don't always need experience at a position to be successful. Look at President Trump.

Angels Evaluator 1: Uh, yeah, how about we consider Candidate A again. Spelling isn't everything!"

Well done ISLAND BOY. you made my day.

Enjoyed reading this. Thanks.

Apparently Cubs bench coach Brandon Hyde has been added to the random speculation of possible Blue Jay managers list.

Shi Davidi is reporting the Jays are down to five candidates.

The list is rumoured to include Espada, Hyde, Baldelli and David Bell.

If those names are all correct, that leaves the identity of one finalist unknown.

Rosenthal tweets that Sam Fuld has made a strong impression, so he may be the 5th on the apparent short list.

As long as it isn't Jekyll, they should be all right.

Whoops....despite his strong showing, it is now being reported that Fuld has withdrawn his name from contention.

Fuld is an interesting guy, but without any managerial experience.  He has one year as an information co-ordinator for the Phillies under Gabe Kapler. 

Woodward is no longer in the running per report.

Stubby Clap also going on record to say he hasn't had contact with Jays.

Baldelli is VERY interesting.

Baldelli is the second most likely imo. I see David Bell as the most likely hire.

I'm not sure why the Jays wouldn't have had at least an initial interview with Clapp.

Espada is my guy. If I were GM, I would automatically eliminate Baldelli and Bell from contention due to my 10 WAR rule.

My ideal manager had zero to negative career WAR in their playing days. Really have to impress; head and shoulders above impress; if between 0 to 10 career WAR.

Over 10 WAR? Good luck to the team that does hire the guy. They'll need it.

Needless to say this is one more reason I am not an MLB GM.

There have been some good managers. I am no expert but Felipe Alou was good. I thought that he won more games based on the personnel he had. Gaston certainly won. Joe Maddon.

Mike Scioscia was pretty good,also.

Alou 42 WAR, 14 seasons managing, 1 Postseason win, 0 WS.

Cito -0.9 WAR, 13 seasons, 18 Postseason wins, 2 WS, 2 WS wins.

Maddon 0 WAR, 15 seasons, 32 Postseason wins, 2 WS, 1 WS win.

Kinda proves my point no?

What managerial experience do any of them have? Baldelli and Espada have been coaches, what about the others?

I don't agree with the concept of evaluating managers based on the team getting to the post season or winning in the post season. Are the Red Sox and Astros battling for the AL championship now because of their managers? I kind of think it's because of people named Sale, Betts, Martinez, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Correa, Bregman, Altuve, Springer, Cole, Verlander, Keuchel, etc. I look at a manager's use of player personnel, development of young players, in game strategy, bullpen usage, etc. You know, things the manager actually controls. A good manager isn't going to be on a winning team if the players AREN'T good enough, and a bad manager can win if the players ARE good enough.

Being able to understand very well and speak very well, English, Spanish and Analytics should be the main considerations for a Manager.

Espada has never managed in the minor leagues. He's managed in winter ball. Baldelli's never managed, either.

Hyde has four years experience managing in the minor leagues. Bell managed for four years in the minors, as well (and has also served as a major league bench coach).

All four candidates have both coaching experience (even if it's not managerial experience) and experience in a front office role.

We just need to figure out which of the other rumoured names has experience in the front office and coaching to deduce who the likely other finalist is.

Hyde also has experience as a major league coach and a bench coach. I just specified Bell had served in that role as it's not his current position.

Baldelli's the only one of the four without any managerial experience.

However, continuing from my other post, it seems Atkins and Shapiro have prioritized someone who has 1) major league coaching experience and 2) experience in a front office role.

Three of the four candidates have some form of managerial experience.

Three of the four candidates come from an organization that incorporates analytics heavily: Espada (Yankees/Astros), Baldelli (Rays) and Hyde (Cubs). Bell's most recent experience is with the Giants and Cardinals, but I imagine he is well-versed in analytics or else he may not have made it this far.

Baldelli had one of the best reputations in the game when it came down to character and work ethic and being a teammate. They also called him Mr. Glass.

He also apparently had/has off the charts IQ and baseball acumen.

My sources are TV telecasts from his playing days.

My ideal choice would be a player that's smart and recently retired who had to show character to get playing time or possessed elite skills. IMHO JMac and Baldelli both fit that mold which is the exact same mold as Kevin Cash the best manager in pro sports IMHO. Elite here obviously refers to an element of their game that's league best. JMac and Cash were defence, for example.

Thanks Thomas.

Boston has received outstanding value in the Pearce-Espinal trade.

Following the trade, Pearce hit .279/.394/.507 (143 wRC+ and 1.2 fWAR) in 165 regular-season PA. In the postseason, he has hit .318/.400/.500 and his stretch helped close out the series against the Yankees.

Whether it's attributable to bad luck or poor management, I think it's safe to say that in the aggregate the Jays did not receive good value for its prime rebuilding trade pieces (Osuna, Donaldson, Happ, Pearce, Granderson, Oh). And, of course, they did not obtain anything for Estrada, Tepera, or Pillar when those players had more value than they do now.

...I think it's safe to say that in the aggregate the Jays did not receive good value for its prime rebuilding trade pieces (Osuna, Donaldson, Happ, Pearce, Granderson, Oh)...

1) Roberto Osuna was never returning to the Jays after his "issue". Without that stupidity occurring he was more of a candidate for an extension than he was for a trade. You keep Pitchers who regularly throw in the upper 90s.
2) Contrary to some people's desires the Jays weren't going for a rebuild in 2018, they were trying for a win, right or wrong. Nobody was getting traded without a quality asset(s) coming back in return.

It just goes to show that Pearce was a great signing. It's the Bautista, Donaldson, Sanchez, etc that have disappointed.

It's worth mentioning that Pearce grew up a Red Sox fan/Yankees hater.

Never thought I'd enjoy an Osuna blow up so much.

I think they got great value for Osuna. Giles looks better and they got the 2 hard throwers.
Donaldson wasn't worth much.
They should have gotten more for Happ, but the guy is undervalued. That's how he ended up in Toronto.
I'm amazed they got anything for Granderson.
I do agree they did not get enough for Oh.
Tepera was never a trade target. I'm not aware of any team asking for Pillar.
Estrada was just  not good.
It's Garcia they should have moved to the pen earlier and traded as a reliever.

Vlad 3 for 4 today, including his 5th double. Also had a BB and a SF. Also stole a base. Also made his 1st AFL error.

Rough outing for Zach Jackson, 3 ER in 0.2 IP.

What did the Jays get at the Trade Deadlines?
On the Team:
1. Ken Giles (28), Closer, Throws high 90s. 2nd Arb.
2. Billy McKinney (24), LF/RF, Bats Left, Pre-arb.
3. Brandon Drury (26), 2B/OF/3B, Bats Right, 1st Arb.
4. David Paulino (24), RHP, Reliever/Spot Starter, Pre-arb.
2019 Callup:
5. Corey Copping (24), RHP, Reliever, Pre-arb.
6. Jacob Waguespack, (24), RHP, Starter, Pre-arb.
7. Julian Merryweather, (27), RHP, Starter, Pre-arb.
Talented:
8. Santiago Espinal, SS, (23), Bats Right, AA.
9. Chad Spandenberg, 1B/RF, (22), Bats Left, A+.
10. Forrest Wall, 2B, (22), Bats Left, AA.
11. Bryan Baker, RHP, (23), Reliever, A+.
12. Hector Perez, RHP, (22), Starter/Reliever, AA.
13. Demi Orimoloye, OF, (21) Bats Right, A+.

I would love to see a list of prospects/players the team could have acquired had they began executing moves last year or last off-season. We know that the Jays turned down Flaherty plus a prospect for Donaldson. We don’t know much else, including what they might have been able to obtain for Osuna and Happ and others.

I don’t see that Giles has a lot of value to the Jays in 2019-2020, except as a potential trade chip. The team needs more 19-year-olds and fewer players in their late 20s with limited years of control like Giles.

I’m not saying the team did a poor job of executing a salvage operation with what they had at the 2018 trade deadline. It’s just unfortunate that it was a salvage operation in the first place, instead of dealing from a position of strength.

The trades of this season will be rehashed for awhile. Bottom line was they were all guys who were going to be gone after 2018 so might as well dump them for anything you can get. If any of them become solid regulars in the majors (ie: get over 10 WAR as a Jay) I'll be extremely happy.

For Oh I think the Jays did great - here is a guy who is a middle man, not a closer, who the Jays got for $1 mil less than he made the year before. 3 prospects for that is damn good imo. Chad Spanberger has power and is just in his 2nd pro year. Forrest Wall is an OF who has hit fairly well so far in the minors (over 800 OPS in 3 of his 5 seasons).
Bryan Baker is a live arm with wildness issues this year but not his first 2 years (lifetime 3.6 BB/9 vs 9.7 K/9).

Any of those 3 would've been acceptable, but all 3 works out nicely imo.

The Red Sox are using Pearce properly (at 1B) and he's healthy. He has always been a good player. He is just injury prone, and the Jays were shooting themselves in the foot by playing him in the outfield.

Either way, I don't think the Jays could have gotten much more than Espinal for Pearce even if they waited a bit longer. First basemen are not valued in this market. Pearce fit a need for the Red Sox and the Jays covered enough money to get a better prospect than they would have without it.

Hypo: Good to see Vlad running up the stats. Jackson was bad but did you notice Connor Green’s line? 2/3 inning, 5 hits, 6 er, 3 w, 0 so, 1 hr.

Jays got something for Pearce. Bourn and Adams got nothing. First basemen just aren’t going to bring much in a trade (Rays might even non tender Cron who was best hitting 1bman in the AL).. The only two players the Jays would have got better returns for a few months earlier were Donaldson and Osuna. Osuna, nobody could have predicted. Donaldson looked like he would have been selling low because he looked like vintage Donaldson when he came back from months off. They should have pulled the trigger but it’s not like it didn’t make some sense to wait. That’s it. The issue the Jays have had is that their better players simply don’t have great value. When the White Sox started to rebuild, they had Sale, Eaton, and Quintana who were all good to great, youngish, and with great contracts. So the White Sox could tear down and get value. Which veteran player on the Jays right now, has good trade value? Nobody, but even a year ago, they only had three players with trade value.

Agreed Glevin. Greenfrog - I'm more disappointed in the performance of the players than I am the returns for them. A lot of people are talking about the next core and window but the plan could have been to contend again this year and have Vlad come up after the deadline. That would have been ideal and then to try to compete again in 2019 with kids arriving everywhere.

Here's my summary of what actually happened:

The Bad
-Donaldson got hurt
-Sanchez hurt
-Osuna charged
-Stroman hurt
-Pearce hurt
-Estrada hurt
-Tulo hurt (was supposed to be back June)
-backups played as starters (Gaviglio, Solarte)
-Martin/Smoak performance suffered with weak line up
-AL performed better (2015/16 Jays wouldn't have been good enough to qualify for playoffs)
- none of the above was a surprise/shock to the front office except Donaldson/Osuna
-Pompey and Alford look toast/finished...two can't miss athletes from AA

The Good
- backups played as starters (Diaz)
- prospects got regular playing time a year (or two) early - Gurriel, Hernandez, Borucki
- prospects made their debuts to get a head start on 2019 - Reid Foley
- Sanchez finally corrected blister issue albeit at season's end
- Tulo situation will resolve itself (either he's back and productive or on bench/gone
- new manager on horizon (nothing against Gibby) but this signals the next chapter
- front office stocked the farm/roster with interesting players like McKinney
- Nate Pearson returned at end of season, Vlad, Biggio, Bichette, Groshans, Smith all had outstanding years

Overall a disappointing year but IMHO we have saved what would have been 2 years of transition into what will likely now be one year...fully expect a contending team in '20 with Smith/Groshans on the bus for call up

Every time the Jays' Starters were stretched beyond the 5 inning or 6 inning limit, it became an adventure. Some times it was a success, some times the Bullpen was good enough, more often the Jays lost the game. All the Teams in the Postseason have multiple Relievers that throw in the upper 90s. The Jays have one (97.3 avg) and short-sighted people wonder what he brings back in trade. I would give him a 3-4 year contract. Acquiring Pitchers, Starters or Relievers who can throw in the upper 90s should be a priority.

What managerial experience do any of them have?

In theory, I'd like someone who has managed in the majors before, but that's never been the Blue Jay way. So then I think - well, someone who has at least managed in the minors (so he's actually done some managing) and has either played or coached in the majors (so he knows what major leaguers are like. )

But they never listen to me.

I would add Tellez, Jansen and McGuire to the list of prospects who got a head start on 2019, dalimon. They all performed well and while only Jansen may start next year with the big club, it bodes well for the future.

Gurriel is not really a prospect and being on an MLB contract, was going to get playing time no matter what.
Think about it, Gurriel is making more money than the pre-arb players and his years of control are counting down regardless of where he plays.

Ben N-S at Sportsnet with his offseason wish-list.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-off-season-roadmap-acquire-cut-loose/

Don't agree 100%, and a number of his moves are very hopeful, but it is a decent plan.

Lourdes Gurriel is under contract until he is 29 years old. In the last year of his contract he will make about $5.8 million.

His total contract is 7 years $22 million.

Given where is he right now in terms of development, I think that's a very team friendly contract.

Scott and Island Boy - agree with you both I missed those key prospects and Gurriel isn't a prospect and likely would have seen a ton of time regardless maybe over all of the diamond instead of SS.

Gurriel went through a lot to get to North America. His hardships continued by having an injury plagued 2017. All while adjusting to a new culture and country.
After 2017 and before the 2018 season, some spoke of him being ranked higher than Urena. I did not see anything to convince me of that.

I have changed my mind about Gurriel due to his very good ML 2018 results. For 2019 he has confidence and proof that he is a capable ML player. He may be even better, I think he will be better.


I still like Urena.

All of what Ben N-S put would be great... if they could find takers for Martin and Morales, which I doubt.

He wants the Jays to corner the market on pitcher names Gray!

1) Sonny Gray pitched much better "Away" than he did "At Home", almost twice as good. At best he's a good #4 Starter.
2) If trading a Roster Player for a Starter, I'd like to see a better caliber of Starter returning.
3) Still, make the deals you can make.

Dodgers have a 3-2 lead in their Series and return to Milwaukee, not an easy task.

Some of BNS ideas make sense, some don't. Trading Diaz for Gray makes zero sense. The issue with trading Diaz is that what happens when Tulo gets hurt again or can't play SS? Your SS depth is Gurriel and Urena? One might not be a SS defensively and one can't hit at all and also isn't a good fielder. If you trade him for interesting prospects, fine, it's worth short-term pain, but for a one year pitcher you are hoping to flip? DFA Pompey is insignificant as a move with zero impact on the major league team. Trading Martin makes sense to me but as I said earlier, I think the Jays can do it for someone like Teheran who can help the team, not be a long-term liability, and not be a straight buyout.

I'm fine with getting rid of Morales but I don't see the rush right now. If Tellez starts in AAA which he should and is mashing after a month or two, you need to bring him up and that means letting go of Morales. In the meantime, the OF/DH is Morales, McKinney, Hernandez, Pillar, and Grichuk. There is enough playing time to go around even with Morales. The crunch with two many players is in the IF. I didn't realize that Travis still had options remaining which is good. It gives the Jays a chance to play him in the minors and see if he can get back to something useful. I'm skeptical but I'd rather give a longer leash in the minors than cut someone outright.

There's no point in having Travis in the minors unless it's off the 40 roster.

The league has adjusted to Travis and it doesn't look like he can adjust back.
He has great coverage of outside fastballs which he can turn into opposite field line drives.
He's able to turn on inside breaking balls and that's where he has the most power.
They're attacking him hard in and soft away and he can't do much unless they miss with a pitch.

Maybe Gray can bounce back, but even if he does, nobody will believe he is this unshakable playoff pitcher on demand at the deadline. The return would still be modest. Diaz should be worth more than that now.

John Lott has a fine article over at the Athletic on the club's strategy for developing defensive capability (for infielders, with one illuminating Pentecost note).  Check it out.

Is there anyone besides Mike that pays to read The Athletic? Every time he posts about it I think that maybe they removed the pay wall. Nope.

"Is there anyone besides Mike that pays to read The Athletic? Every time he posts about it I think that maybe they removed the pay wall. Nope."

I do, it's great, some Jays stuff you're not going to read anywhere else. Lott in particular has been given freedom to cover whatever he wants with the Jays it seems.

Yeah, I too am a big fan of the Athletic. Great for specific team coverage (in my case, Blue Jays & Eagles), as well as some strong national writers (Rosenthal, Stark, Sarris). Of course, they also have Jim Bowden...

I also subscribe to The Athletic. Just a lot of good stuff.

I've subscribed to The Athletic for a couple of years now, and I only did it for the baseball (and even that, primarly Jays) coverage. Always impressed with the quality of coverage and writing.

It would be an even better deal for anyone interested in other sports. For me, John Lott alone almost makes it worth paying for.

I tweeted this link out as well, but another take on the Jays top 30 from Prospects Live:

https://www.prospectslive.com/lists/2018/10/13/toronto-blue-jays-top-30-prospects

Some seemingly odd additions/omissions.

No Chavez/Kloff/Yennsy/Reese.

Espinal(20?), McLelland and Lundquist make it.

And Patrick Murphy - why exactly is he missing on so many prospect lists?

Agreed hypobole, I think Espinal was an out there inclusion, I'm really curious to see BA's when the release their handbook.

And don't forget Da Box's top 30, coming in November. I can pretty much guarantee that Patrick Murphy will be in the top 30.

No Guerrero in lineup today. Pearson pitching and Biggio at first.

I too read the Athletic. It is worth the subscription.

A question for anyone on admin here:

The museum I run is doing a baseball night on the 24th as part of our sports exhibit and the featured guest is one of our uni alums, Mark Riggins, the pitching coach for the Dunedin Blue Jays. We're going to live stream the event on Facebook (I'll post the link day of) and I'll happily take good questions for him from Bauxites. In this part of western KY it's 90% Cards fans, 9.9% Cubs fans, and then me as the lone Jays guy, so I can't go too deep into the weeds on our players, but I will slip a few questions about people Mark has worked with (Borucki, Zeuch, and Pearson especially). Would it be cheeky to ask for a separate thread for this?

Thanks!

I subscribe to the Athletic. Absolutely worth my money.

Johnny was - just submit any details and we can set up another thread. It is the dead season with no Jays in the playoffs and too early for prospect lists and trades so anything to get a thread going.

Hey John N, here’s some prospect news. Nate Pearson went 1+ inning today while getting smashed. He gave up 5hits, 4 walks and 8 runs. Command was very poor. Biggio made 1 error while playing first. He whiffed on an easy ground ball to his left. He also swung and missed quite a bit today. On the bright side teammate and Canadian Charles LeBlanc broke up a no hitter in the 7th with a single. The Saguaros lost 18-2.

Isn't this more like Spring Training for Nate Pearson? He's hardly pitched very much so control will not be 100%.

Ed Sprague interviewed for the Jays' Manager position. Two World Series rings with the Jays. Hit the 1992 W.S. Game Two winning HR in the 9th off the Bench. Sportsnet Site has more details:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-ed-sprague-interviewed-blue-jays-manager-position/

If Sprague were the kind if manager that is equivalent to the kind of player he was I would run far far away.

Richard: Last outing Pearson was very good. Maybe today was an example of the inconsistency we come to expect from young pitchers.

You misread what I said.
His total number of innings (including that teaching thingy in September) don't exceed what's normally thrown in Spring Training. I said nothing about his results.

IN SPRING TRAINING HOWEVER, even Stud Pitchers like he is has an off day. He's 6'6" 245 and throws in the upper nineties or higher. He's in Toronto in 2020.

"If Sprague were the kind if manager that is equivalent to the kind of player he was I would run far far away."

He's not. His name came up in this FG item about a month ago. And yeah, remembering Sprague it surprised me as well.

Oakland’s assistant GM Dan Kantrovitz: "I also work closely with our player-development coordinators, and they drive a lot of innovation. Guys like Ed Sprague. They’re super analytical, but also strong from a coaching perspective.”

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/a-conversation-with-oakland-assistant-gm-dan-kantrovitz/#more-294577

I expect the hot candidates, Joe Espada & David Bell to select their teams and be named before the WS starts.

Espada is available to be interviewed now.

Espada was available to be interviewed before - candidates can be interviewed while their team is still playing - last year Alex Cora was interviewed and named Red Sox manager before the WS started and Houston played in the WS - I think it's just that MLB doesn't like any announcements made during the WS.

I'm hoping for Baldelli. What happened to John MacDonald?

David Price came through last night for Boston.
Houston still have a great core of young players. Their farm system is still good. D Keuchel and C Morton are FAs. Both will be in demand in the off season.

There are probably 7 good FA starters available.

What happened to John MacDonald?

They removed his statue.

^ That's funny... but it took me a minute to get it.

Johnny Mac has significantly less experience (both in breadth and quantity) than the other known finalists (Bell, Baldelli, Hyde, Espada).

Atkins is said to be looking for "someone to fill an expanded vision for the manager role, which will include co-ordinating with multiple facets of the organization rather than focusing solely on the 25-man big-league roster.". It's likely not a coincidence that all of the candidates except Hyde have front office experience in addition to multiple coaching/managerial assignments.

I like the idea of having a young manager (like John Schneider), but I think the next manager's job description will quite different than Gibby's and requires someone with demonstrated success working with front office, major leaguers, and minor leaguers.

David Bell is probably the most qualified, but Joe Espada is probably my favorite at this point, with a slight edge for having AL East experience and being bilingual.

Chalk me up as another Athletic subscriber.

Do the Jays sign their Manager before the World Series, during the World Series or after the World Series?

Speaking Spanish and English would be a big asset IMO for any ML manager. Do we know if any candidates are bilingual like that? If I was someone who wanted to be a ML manager or coach I'd be working on my Spanish and Japanese - at least enough to know the basics for baseball (ie: able to discuss a hitter or pitcher but not enough to order dinner or ask someone out).

Regardless, it would be run to have Sprague back as a manager. Odds are he learned a lot from Gaston and his last ML manager was Lou Pinella the year Seattle won 116 but didn't get to the World Series.

Bob Elliot reports Ed Sprague interviewed for the Jays' Managerial position on Thursday. https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/report-ed-sprague-interviewed-blue-jays-manager-position/
Yet on Tuesday we learn of four of the five finalists. I suggest we know all five now.

Bobby Cox, Cito Gaston and John Gibbons qualify as our greatest managers.
A lot of their success was due to having good players. Cox took a bad/decent team and made them win. Gaston on two occasions took teams with very bad records and turned them into very strong teams. Gibbons did well in 2015 and 2016.


I don't know how all this happened. Were the other 4 or 5 manager decent/ok/good or were they bad? The new guy can probably do badly in 2019 and 2020 because expectations are low. The 2021 team under him most likely has to win/be decent.

I don't know if the Jays ever had a good team that lost because of a bad manager. Except Gaston's predecessors?

I've subscribed to The Athletic for a couple of years now, and I only did it for the baseball (and even that, primarly Jays) coverage. Always impressed with the quality of coverage and writing.

It would be an even better deal for anyone interested in other sports. For me, John Lott alone almost makes it worth paying for.

I'm a pretty avid fan of the Jays, Raps, Leafs, the NFL (I can't bring myself to back the Bills) and the EPL (Gunners!). The value I get makes my subscription a no-brainer.

Agree with others regarding Lott. Also really enjoy Stoeten.

Maybe I should have asked if I'm the only one without a subscription.

Hypobole with the Smart ass comment of the day. Did make me chuckle.

"I don't know if the Jays ever had a good team that lost because of a bad manager. Except Gaston's predecessors?"

It is entirely possible that the Jays would have had another WS (or two) if they hadn't hired Jimy "one-m" Williams.

Yeah, Jimy's name sprung to mind when I read that question.

Jimy Williams vs Cito.

Different personalities: Respect for players, communication. Convincing the players to do it a certain way.

Strategies: Pinch hitting or not. Small ball. Bull Pen management. The running game. I don't know the overall effectiveness of these strategies given that the team is the same from month to month and series to series.

Then there could be coaching staff meetings before a new series. What are the different strengths/weaknesses of the NYY vs KC teams. Also how do key players on each team play and the opposing manager manage.

Seeing eye to eye with the GM.

Cito could have been one of the best at understanding hitting. IMO Gary Denbo did not get the men on base to score. Cito was better.

I won't subscribe to the Athletic. I can get Chapman's Ice Cream instead of the cheapest, with that money. It's always about priorities now.

IMO the biggest thing with Cito was a willingness to learn - in 1989 and 1991 he lost in part because he used the same strategy as he did all season - trust your players to do the job as they always did in the season. In 1992/93 he started pinch hitting, switching things up, saying 'screw it' to egos and doing whatever was needed to win that day. If that ended up putting someone like Alfredo Griffin in the lineup late due to various moves so be it (he was next to hit after Joe Carter in 1993 iirc). Number 1 is to find a way to get every run and avoid giving up runs.

That was a lesson HOF'er Bobby Cox had serious trouble learning as he kept platoons in place in the playoffs and that killed him in 1985. Then in the 90's he kept getting to the playoffs but only got the one title despite over 10 times getting to the playoffs, which is worse than random odds.

Examples...
1992: 6 stolen bases, Morris pulled at just 98 pitches, 6 IP game 1, David Cone pulled after 94 pitches in the 4th inning, multiple pinch hitting (even Ed Sprague for John Olerud...seems nuts but it worked as Sprague of all people took a walk), pulling Jimmy Key even though he was still effective in game 4 (worked out), using rookies in key roles during playoffs (Sprague, Derek Bell, etc.) or near rookies (Timlin) and even guys he didn't like at all (David Wells).

Jimy Williams was more like Cox - he had plans and stuck with them even when they were clearly not working. He did take risks, but dumb ones - Cecil Fielder at 3B/2B for example. He kept playing guys well past their limits - such as Garth Iorg, Willie Upshaw - the two combined easily cost the Jays the 2 games needed to win the AL East in 1987 and Upshaw there was no excuse for playing non-stop when you have Cecil Fielder and Fred McGriff on the bench (used as platoon DH's all the time). Of course, Cox would figure out a guy wasn't working a lot quicker than Jimy ever did.

Ken Giles, 28, RHP, 6'2"205, (MLB) reaches 100+ fairly often and regularly pitches in the high nineties (97-99).
Nate Pearson, 22, RHP, 6'6"245, (A+) reaches 100+ fairly often and regularly pitches in the high nineties (97-98).
Eric Pardinho 17, RHP, 5'10"175, (RK+/A-) reaches 97 fairly often and regularly pitches in the mid-nineties (93-95). He should get better.

Hector Perez, 22, RHP, 6'3"190, (AA/AAA) regularly pitches 93-99 depending on which of his fastballs he is using at the time.
David Paulino, 24, RHP, 6'7"222, (MLB/AAA) reaches 98 fairly often and regularly pitches in the low-mid-nineties (91-95).
Sean Reid-Foley, 23, RHP, 6'3"220, (MLB/AAA) reaches 97 upon occasion and regularly pitches in the mid-nineties (92-95).

Adam Kloffenstein 18, RHP, 6'5"243, (RK/?) reaches 96 fairly often and regularly pitches in the low nineties (92-94).
T.J. Zeuch, 23, RHP, 6'7"225, (AA/AAA) regular throws 91-94 or 96-97 depending on what he uses. Doesn't strike out many.
Sean Wymer, 21, RHP, 6'1"190, (A-/A) regularly throws90-92 or 95-96 depending on which fastball he's using.

There are more. Whether these Pitchers are Starters or take the uptick in Relief, the Jays have good Pitching Talent in the Minors and near-ready MLB-ready. Needs and ability determine how fast they will move. Keeping that Talent and acquiring more for the MLB-level is a difficult task the jays are facing. Who might be available from them?

Thanks Richard SS for the list of power pitchers. They throw high heat. All on your list probably also have other pitches because they are starters. Maybe works on progress.

Possibly also P Murphy and Y Diaz. Maybe not A Perdomo, J Romano and J Winckowski.

And here I come short on my no Houston, no Dodgers prediction.
It was close, but I'm still scratching my head at Milwaukee's poor rotation.

With the launch angles and the uppercut swings, I don't understand why all the sinker pitcher don't add a top of the zone 4 seamer as a strike out pitch. It should take no time at all to learn to throw a 4 seamer.
That goes for Sanchez and Zeuch.

Let's just twist the knife a bit here.

The Brewers traded Villar plus shortstop prospect Jean Carmona and pitching prospect Luis Ortiz for Schoop who was dreadful. Schoop carried and OPS of .577 with Milwalkee and went 0 for 8 in the playoffs.

If they don't find an ace somewhere, this core might not have another go at the post season.

Brewers have Jimmy Nelson back next year. He was one of the better pitchers in baseball in 2017. Brewers should be right back in the mix of things next year.

The 1st managerial domino has fallen. Cincy hires David Bell.

Local guy takes over a Reds team that hasn't won 80 games in 5 years.

Since it is the off season, sort off, we can evaluate some trades that did not involve the Jays.
The J Schoop trade? The Brewers wanted a bigger bat, so they succeeded at that. Baltimore's success depends on the development of the 2 prospects. They look like good gambles.

Schoop was benched for most of the playoffs and went 0 for 8.
How is that a success? Villar has been one the best players in Baltimore.
They traded Villar because they were not happy with his .693 OPS and Schoop gave them .577.
That's bad even if the two prospects were D level and never amount to anything.

Schoop has one year of control left. Villar has 2.
Schoop was worth 1.4 WAR on the year and Villar 2..7

scottt, your point is accurate.
How is that a success? I figured that based on Schoop's and Villar's ML records that Schoop was the better player. If so then the Brewers became stronger, for the playoffs. I know that the results were bad. Schoop has more Hrs. Villar more SBs.

I think Schoop has a better chance of being more productive in 2019 than Villar. But that is another season and Schoop was brought in for good results now.

Brad Ausmus is the new LAA manager. I guess announcements are being made on playoff off days.

World Series starts Tuesday, so the Jays still have time for an announcement. Most of the People being considered for Jays' Managerial Position are/were being considered for other Managerial Positions, except Ed Sprague. He also checks a lot of the boxes. I'd just hate to get in a bidding war for the Jays' choice.

I also subscribe to The Athletic.

Ditto. I especially appreciate the outstanding hockey coverage, seeing as how it's been at least 30 years since anyone doing the TV broadcasts ever explained what the players and coaches are trying to accomplish.

But my ESPN Insider went and renewed itself without asking me if I wanted to. (I hadn't decided.)

Espada had interviewed with the Reds and Angels as well as the Rangers.
Baldelli has interviewed with 5 teams.
Not sure about Hyde. Fuld is reported to have interviewed with the Jays but withdrew his name.

"But my ESPN Insider went and renewed itself"

Thanks for reminding me, Magpie. I have been using 3 sports pay sites, ESPN Insider, milb TV, and Cleaning the Glass for basketball (which is maybe the best sports site available).

Just cancelled my Insider and thanks to all the positive reviews here, purchased a subscription to The Athletic.

I'd like Espada, Sprague or Hyde as Manager (in that order of preference).
I'd be OK with the Jays acquiring RHP Sonny Gray from NYY. His away splits are very acceptable.
I'd be OK with the Jays acquiring LHP Adam Conley from Miami. He'd be a very good Reliever/possible Spot Starter as well.

Looks like the choice is down to Espada and Baldelli. I'd take the candidate with front office experience and major league experience relevant to today's style (same HR totals as SB) as well as knowing the inner workings of your division rival.

Thanks for reminding me, Magpie. I have been using 3 sports pay sites, ESPN Insider, milb TV, and Cleaning the Glass for basketball (which is maybe the best sports site available).

Just cancelled my Insider and thanks to all the positive reviews here, purchased a subscription to The Athletic.

@Hyperbole - I need to check out Cleaning the Glass.

By the looks of just what's freely available, it looks great. I'm guessing you'll like Blake Murphy's coverage of the Raptors given he likes to dive into the details and explain why certain things are happening on the floor (the Celts vs. Raps commentary was really good).

Is there a report saying that the Jays have eliminated the other two of the final five (Bell is eliminated, obviously)? I hadn't read anything to say the Jays had announced it'd be Baldelli or Espada.

The Raptors coverage on the Athletic is so good its actually made me a bigger (and better) fan of the team and basketball in general.

The Athletic's NHL coverage of my local team (the Canucks) isn't great (reflective of the team), but the writers for the Oilers are really strong.

I'm an Oiler's Fan since their WHA days. I'm a Blue Jays' Fanatic since the Expos were stolen. I kind of pay a bit of attention to the Raptors.

Well, Richard qualifies in a number of categories, Mike. I’m hopeful he’ll eventually scrap “verses” for “versus”; then we can maybe move along to some apostrophes. Maybe. (He pays less attention to me than Williams did to reporters.)

One of my peeves is that "versus" has become "verse". I presume it's because people who are paid very well to speak on television or radio do not know what "vs." stands for.

's and s' can have the same meaning. If s' should be 's then using s' might change the meaning. Are you sure what I meant?
To avoid severe mental strain with verses and versus I will use -vs- instead. If I remember or not.

Espada is in Toronto.
Baldelli is in Minnesota.
I haven't heard anything about Hyde.
Maybe the 5th guy was Fuld. Maybe it was Sprague. Maybe it was Jekyll.

No, Jekyll was a doctor, not a baseball guy.

On Bluebird Bantering there are some quoted comments from Keith Law on Blue Jays in the AFL. He says Vlad Jr. is just having fun, swinging earlier in the count than he normally would and trying for home runs to please the crowd. Law also labels Cavan Biggio a marginal pro prospect with no real position, too passive at the plate and no outstanding skill.

I mentioned that it didn't make sense to me that the Jays had not interviewed Clapp for their managerial vacancy at all, as had been reported somewhere.

Now Bob Elliott's reporting that they did interview Clapp. It's not clear if he is the mystery fifth finalist or if he was interviewed earlier by phone, but did not make the final cut.

One of my peeves is that "versus" has become "verse".

And this had led to the verb versing. "Batman is versing Superman".