Skaggs scratched with a tight hanmmy. Lamb starts tonight.

Gibbons said that Gaviglio may start Sunday's game with Garcia moving to the pen. Moves coming.

man I love gibbons.i'm gonna miss him. I'd rather see gaviglio than Garcia too.

on a related note, I think gibbons is still annoyed they took his good reliever biagini away from him and tried to make him a starter. that's probably why gibbons keeps going to him in relief now. he wants to fix him back to what he was.

Seems like Pearce has been activated but who got sent down?

Darn. They have a better DH than us.

Pearce will be activated tomorrow.

Since Gurriel is up, I would think Pearce will knock Urshela out.

Biagini warming up. Sanchez may be hurt.

And Biagini may not be any better than a hurt Sanchez.. :-(

Sanchez hurt? Baseball gods?

Grichuk at 19 wRC+ when he came off the DL less than a month ago. He's at an even 100 wRC+ now.

Looks like another blister issue for Aaron Sanchez.

At this point, is it worth looking at Sanchez being the future closer to mitigate this chronic issue? At least this way they can get value out of him. It's clesr his struggles this year stem from not using the curve...wluldn't need it that much as a reliever.

they're calling it a contusion...which sounds like BS...but they actually got it xrayed.

Maybe he banged it before the game? At any rate, maybe he misses one start, maybe none.

I went to bed when I saw Axford ready to come out.

Mariners are slumping now, but they are still 6 games ahead of the Angels.
Too bad their farm system is pretty bare. They could use Happ, or not. They already traded for him once.

What's happened to the daily demand to rid the team of Kendry Morales? I miss the vitriol.

I dunno, but there's too many DH on this team now. with Pearce being activated today..

B-Ref has the pitching at 4.5 WAR, the hitting at 8.8 and the defense at -1.9.

Might have to trade Pearce for cash or a PTBNL.

Btw, can anyone figure out what the Jays got from the Mariners for Wade Leblanc?

Btw, can anyone figure out what the Jays got from the Mariners for Wade Leblanc?
Weird, I checked B-R transactions and they don't update PTBNL or cash with the actual player traded.  Seems to follow up with PTBNL, which seems weird.
Would need to probably check a bunch of Jays transactions of 2016/17 to see if there's any loose Jays-Mariners transaction.

I imagine all we got for Leblanc was cash. Someone would have noticed if a new player entered our minor league system.

Looks like it was cash.
The B-R team transaction page shows a later trade being completed with a player in the same transaction line.
Looks like the Jays almost ALWAYS took the cash the last few years. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2016-transactions.shtml

"Mariners are slumping now, but they are still 6 games ahead of the Angels."

Wouldn't say the Mariners are slumping. They've just played 7 vs the Red Sox/Yankees (with 3 more this weekend in Boston).

They had the easiest schedule in the league prior and took advantage. Next week they have the O's and Royals. If they struggle against those 2, then, yeah, they're slumping.

I don't get the gloating tone re: Morales.

it's nice that he finally had a hot streak, but he's still not even as good as last year, and last year he was terrible.

and now when Donaldson is back we're going to be forced to demote a kid like Gurriel Nd have a roster with 3 DHs and no backup SS.

and despite the hot streak, Morales is still the worst bet at the plate of the 3 DHs.

I'll say it again, John - I sure hope the Jays are willing to eat full contracts in order to maximize returns.

It's not like we are in desperate need of payroll space anytime soon.

No one is going to be "tricked" into picking up Morales, especially if they have to pay him real money. Hanley is sitting out there available for minimum wage and no one's picked him up.

The FO is probably close to realizing that our playoff chances are practically zero. They would have the revenue information as it comes in for analysis to determine what and how to proceed. Revenue would be a factor somehow. A win streak would help revenue. We will be better when/if Stroman and Donaldson return in good health. But we are still probably not making the playoffs.


So our moves are probably going to be based on maximizing wins and revenue. Some kids can replace some veterans without lowering our chances to win.
These vets would be Granderson, Pearce, a few bullpen arms and Garcia in the rotation. A rotating DH would make trading Morales ok. I doubt the FO wants a kid as full time DH.

I gotta say - I get dissappointed in all the takes that just accept as permanent reality that rogers can never be expected to go all in in either direction - contending or rebuilding.

If/when the Jays trade Granderson, Pearce, and Donaldson, then I really don't care if Morales plays everyday at DH. This season is a lost cause, and 2019 will likely be a transition year as well. The issue is playing him over better internal options. Now that Grichuk and Hernandez have established themselves in the OF, Gibbons will have to be a little more creative with how he uses his four 1B/DH's (Granderson, Smoak, Pearce, Morales). Maybe more days off for Smoak, or days off for Pillar. Once the logjam is eliminated by trades, it will become less of an issue. I expect Morales to start at DH in 2019 regardless.

Interesting note on Morales is that statcast has him 7th in baseball in average exit velocity and 21st in barrels per PA. He's actually hitting the ball harder now than he ever has (SSS) and has reduced his GB rate back to normal. It's actually a bit frustrating that he hasn't been a better hitter in Toronto.

I gotta say - I get dissappointed in all the takes that just accept as permanent reality that rogers can never be expected to go all in in either direction - contending or rebuilding.

Even if they use language to suggest otherwise, a rebuild is certainly in the offing now, no? Attendance is down. The team is not performing. Nothing holding them back. Bring in their own manager in the off-season. Cut loose some veterans (those not yet cut loose this season).

I think any vitriol seemingly aimed at Morales is not really being aimed at him personally, just as it wasn't aimed at Joe Carter personally back in the day, when his over-ratedness angered so many and he served as a touchpoint between the old and new schools of player evaluation.

The vitriol is really aimed at management (both in the office and in the dugout) that decides that this is a good way to spend money and this is a good way to deploy resources. I don't know that anyone around here has ever made a disparaging remark about Kendrys Morales the man. I agree that he's probably trying his best and is very likely a good egg. And some subset of the young Latin players may well find him a stabilizing influence.

Sorry Mike, but your post is simply too level headed, with a seemingly total lack of anger, sarcasm or wilful misrepresentation.

Rob Longley
✔
@longleysunsport
Sanchez injury last night was not baseball related. He jammed his finger away from the stadium, had it iced when he arrived for game and couldn't properly grip the ball. #Bluejays

Rob Longley
✔
@longleysunsport
Sanchez knows he probably shouldn't have started the game but Barstow, Calif. native had dozens of friends and family at the game. Figured he could play through it. #Bluejays

The contending/rebuild issue has a degree of severity. The FO knows how high the luxury limit will be for the next few years. They also know that you cannot win by only using homegrown talent.
They probably have a goal and plan that is already formed. Our speculations will be successful on most of the plan.


This year and last year we would have been fine if the injuries were not so severe. They said that they would try to compete and proved it by signing Bautista and not trading
Donaldson among other moves to contend.

I expect they will make moves that tell us a lot about the direction the team is going. Lower payroll seems a given.

Also a youth movement. Right now some youth are challenging the veterans.

And if I didn't know about what happened, I would be really pissed at my pitcher.

Now there's some vitriol!

Very hypothetical vitriol is the best kind.  Could be the start of a Neko Case song!

Sadly, injured Sanchez wasn't worse than healthy Axford.

Pillar coulda shoulda caught Calhoun's HR, seemed he misjudged it a bit.

As opposed to the Card's Ozuna, who misjudged it a lot.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/marcell-ozuna-climbs-wall-chasing-fly-ball-but-it-falls-well-short/c-282315820

"With Sanchez' history and this not being a Schilling/World Series kind of situation, there is no way that I would let him pitch if I were the manager and I knew that. :

hey, doesn't the High Performance Department have a say in this?

Pillar down to an 85wrc+ now, with mediocre D.

How far are we from seeing a Grandy-Grichuk-Teoscar outfield?

If Sanchez hadn't told Gibby about his injury, in his next start, Gibby could give him a Pearce-Morales-Grandy OF.

That would send a message. Actually more than 1.

I don't see any vitriol around Morales either.  many comments about his mentoring ability, his leadership, the fact that he is often the first player to show up on gameday.  The sport just passed the guy by.  but chuck is for sure correct when he notes that if there is vitriol, it is directed at management - or perhaps ownership, if there is an unwillingness to admit to a sunk cost.
But 85bluejay, you are clearly sensitive to the Morales issue, since you banged the drum to sign Morales so loudly.  I do admit, I find it frustrating that you complain about the Morales critiques so often, perhaps even exaggerate them (vitriol?), without acknowledging that you championed his signing.  to me, you wanted the guy, you got the guy, you wear the performance a bit. 

Not to pick a fight - I've been super wrong a bunch of times here, and actually prefer a FO that is willing to make mistakes.  and FWIW, you and a few other posters actually convinced me that there was a quality logic behind his signing. 

Morales in center field ought to be worth at least a half a dozen messages. Also might be worth paying to see, if one is into re-living those little league years. :)

hey, doesn't the High Performance Department have a say in this? No, they don't. Nice try though.

You do realize it was sarcasm at is finest or not?

Dept of Super Performance doesn't get a say in when injured player's play?

hmm. weird.

I see that humour & Sarcasm is lost on this crowd - maybe I should confine myself to dry boring stuff.

Jerjapan - I'm not sensitive to the Morales critiques at all, in fact I have agreed that Morales is not a good fit for this team & have no problems seeing him let go - I just found the incessant whining about Morales comical & unproductive when there are so many problems with the team.Please provide some evidence that I "banged the drum to sign Morales so loudly" - I said I was good with signing Morales for 1 year and when Morales was signed, I give it a thumbs down citing too many years and too much money - I've mostly advocated the Jays having no DH and using the spot for resting older & often injured players. I have not made a single post this year defending Morales or critiquing his detractors before the above post (which was meant as sarcasm) .I would suggest that before attacking a posting,you at least marshall some evidence that support your attack or please stop posting nonsense on a wavelength of ignorance.

High Performance Department's focus is ensuring all clubhouses are supplied with Brain & Nerve tonic, players are staying hydrated with their recently purchased supply of Hot Dog Water, things like that.

Injured players are now the responsibility of the Low Performance Department.

MLB to issue decision on Osuna suspension tonight, per MLBTR.

I'm guessing that the Jays want the suspension to start now so they can stop paying his salary (5M for the year) and are possibly in a position to trade him over the winter.

Speaking of suspensions, Pannone pitching for Dunedin tonight.

Mike Mordecai is the Quality Control Coach.
Maybe stuff like that falls under him?

85, most of the 'whining' I read is 'whining' about this non-existent whining around Morales.  Multiple posts, from you, about how everyone should drop the 'vitriol', 'whining' etc.  change the topic if you like, but telling people what to talk about, while mis-characterizing what is actually being talked about, has struck me as pretty rich coming from you given how you were the first poster i was aware of to lobby for Morales.  I bit my tongue the first few times, but eventually got tired of your whining about our whining. 

Here's one of your posts on the subject ... took about 5 seconds to find.  perhaps 'banging the drum' was too strong, but you were a fan of the move. 

85bluejay - Friday, November 11 2016 @ 04:18 PM EST (#335249) #Morales power should uptick at RC - I had guessed 2/26, so 3/33 isn't bad - I like that he's a SH - goodbye EE and thanks for the memories. FO seems to have similar strategy to last season - strike early. Now, I expect Reddick for RF, though I would love if the Jays can swing a deal for Yelich.

You did lobby for two years, but not the one that you claim above, nor did you give the signing the thumbs down.  your retroactively rewriting the narrative is easy to spot since this is the internet and all. 

Props to you for lobbying for Reddick, Yelich etc, but again, I just get tired of this meme that Jays fans are unintelligent whiners. 

75 games for Osuna. Retroactive suspension May 18 to August 4th.

Pillar's defense isn't bad, but Grichuk can play center too.
Pillar always starts fast and slows down.

The only time he got significant rest last year was during his suspension and during the all-star break.
He was hitting well before his suspension, kept hitting well for another week after he returned and then started his slump, then he slumped even worst after the break than before, until he got a second wind in August.

Oh, well.

" Day-to-day, the single easiest thing to do to improve this roster right now is to release Morales. I know that if he gets released, I will feel happy, so I guess I'm looking forward to that."

From the Nats-Jays thread

I would guess the doctor(s) determination is whether he can play without aggravating the injury or causing further injury. Then Gibbons decides whether or not to pencil the player into the lineup.

Again, please give example of these "multiple post" where I said everyone should drop the vitriol, whining etc.

and in the quote you cited, I merely said that I taught the jays could have had him for 2/26 and that I liked he's a SH .

And as per Shi Davidi:

"Roberto Osuna and the players association agreed not to contest the discipline."

" Day-to-day, the single easiest thing to do to improve this roster right now is to release Morales. I know that if he gets released, I will feel happy, so I guess I'm looking forward to that."

From the Nats-Jays thread
So?  are you characterizing that as whining?  i don't get your point.  I've been quite public about my desire to release Morales, as have a bunch of us.  my quote above was in response to yet another poster being dismissive of the conversation around Morales, calling it 'obsessive' and 'funny'.  I'm consistent here, and I continue to object to the term 'whining' and other pejoratives.  It's too Drunk Jays Fan for me, Stoeten's whole demeaning shtick.   'whining' is obviously pejorative, and this whole site has been a heck of lot more enjoyable since the pejorative language stopped. 

No, I wouldn't call it whining. And all this is over that one word "whining"? Try to be happy, even with Morales still on the team.

thought osuna would get more tbh.

I don't want to not take his situation seriously...but some team is go8ng to give him a 2nd chance so I hope it's us.

About releasing players,
Johnny Giavotella and Michael Saunders the Condor were recently released. In 2016 or 2017, some posters here wanted Giavotella. If Jon Berti at New Hamsphire is an organization filler, would Giavotella and Saunders be better than D. Sweeney guy? Urena in Buffalo who is hitting .622 OPS can take Berti's spot and Giavotella and Saunders take spots from Urena and Sweeney guy, respectively?

Morales' hot streak means Pearce in LF...and yeah.

The 2/3 extra rest for Martin has clearly affected his swing, but not his batting eye. I think it was a bad idea for Travis as well. It's a shame because if Martin had a typical half season, he might have trade value. I think the Jays overthought this situation as well.

"but some team is go8ng to give him a 2nd chance so I hope it's us."

Some team IS going to give him a second chance and I really hope it ISN'T us.

Martin is a 35 yr old catcher. Maybe that's affected his swing? Are you saying he should be getting fewer days off?

And Travis has been hitting well and has remained healthy so far.

With Osuna I hope someone else sees that bonus year of control and gives the Jays a decent couple of prospects for him to help the Jays in the 2020-2025 window.

I dunno.

I think the doctor would have asked for an X-ray before the game, not during the 3rd period.

I thought Osuna would get more as well.

There might be other factors involved anyway. I'm not sure what a conviction would mean for Osuna's work visa.
Is he allowed to travel? When will this get to court? American courts are a lot faster, for affluent accused anyway.
Will he need to serve time, be paroled or do community service?

As I understand it, 15 of those 75 unpaid days can be spent in the minors.
If the judge allows it anyway.

"Some team IS going to give him a second chance and I really hope it ISN'T us."

that's fair.

Roberto Osuna is paying the penalty as given by the MLB offices. He also is going to be paying the legal penalty as his case is processed by the legal proceedings and the courts decide what his penalty is.

He also will have to pay the price every time he pitches and is booed for his actions.

As long as there is remorse and admission of guilt, everyone deserves a second chance.

finally a voice of reason.

He also will have to pay the price every time he pitches and is booed for his actions.

Will there really be booing? Do fans, especially home fans, actually boo those who commit acts of domestic violence? I ask in all seriousness because I can't remember seeing such.

"As long as there is remorse and admission of guilt, everyone deserves a second chance."

No they don't.

Domestic violence is a sensitive issue. As is child abuse. China's policy of 1 child per family, I read about this. Child labour, I read about this also, very long work hrs.


Innocent people are getting hurt all the time. I personally am choosing not to get involved in this discussion.

I am not sure he 'deserves' a second chance, but he will get one.

But I honestly think, in every situation like this, it is better for the player to move on. As long as he is playing here he is the guy who gut busted for beating up his girlfriend (at least). If he moves on to... I don't know, Philadelphia or Arizona or something... he is the guy who had a troubled history that is trying to move forward.

I am not saying I think that way. I would be perfectly okay of he never pitches in the majors again. I just think that is the practical effect.

Except for the most heinous crimes, I generally believe in 2nd/3rd chances - in this case, it's probably best for both Osuna & the jays that they part company - the jays will probably use Aug/Sept. to rebuild some value and then try to move Osuna this winter - I suspect that ownership and not the FO will make the call on Osuna's Blue jays future.

I listen to the argument that he doesn't deserve a second chance period. I understand that position.

But rpiske I really don't see this argument at all:

"As long as he is playing here he is the guy who gut busted for beating up his girlfriend (at least). If he moves on to... I don't know, Philadelphia or Arizona or something... he is the guy who had a troubled history that is trying to move forward."

If you are ok with him getting a 2nd chance somewhere, then it would be just plain wasteful of us to not be the team giving him that chance, imo.

Just to make myself clear, I wouldn't have a problem if Osuna remained a Jay (although yeah, Rogers might). I certainly couldn't cheer for him any time soon.

We don't know what he did exactly, but judging by the suspension length, it was considered not as bad as Chapman/Torres, but worse than Reyes and all the others disciplined.

As for my 2nd chances response, what an offender is getting a 2nd chance at makes a difference. A contrite ex-teacher with a child porn conviction can get a 2nd chance in society, but who thinks it's fair or right to give them a 2nd chance at teaching young children?

Some of the comments lately remind of the old west lynching mob. Why bother with a trial, just hang im.

Not sure how much comparing to other cases is worth. suspension length may very well be increasing over time?

On a much more positive note, Marco in June:

4 GP, 25.2 IP, 1.75 ERA, 9.12 K/9, 1.75 BB/9, 2.67 FIP.

Another month of pitching closer to his June than overall line, and he definitely will have some real trade value.

That's a real positive after his slow start. :)

Well, there has been a quasi-trial in the investigation leading to the suspension that Osuna has accepted.

And you don't seem to understand the fact there are very varied opinions about spousal abuse. Some don't seem to think it that big a deal, some think it's a huge deal.

officially toast.

#burnttoast

"Some don't seem to think it that big a deal, some think it's a huge deal."
I think it's a big deal once we know the whole story. Selfishly, I'd like to build up his value b4 we trade him but it depends on the court case AFAIC.

The Brewers have optioned Domingo Santana. Much like Grichuk, this definitely seems like a Ross Atkins trade target. Hits the ball hard, legit power, years of control left, and likely at his lowest value.

You can only have so many right fielders.

He could probably also cover 1B and DH!

Sanchez and Garcia DL'ed. Stroman activated Mayza recalled.

I think the Garcia DL stints are a good example of phantom DLing.

I dunno, it's not like we have a replacement for him.

72 outfielders have played 400 innings this year. Of those 72 OF's, Cole Calhoun of the Angels has the 2nd best UZR/650.

Anyone know who's been the only OF better than Calhoun?

Randal Grichuk?

welcome back, stro.

I'd like to take this opportunity to say how much I've backed Pearce on this site ever since he was a Jay. I continue to believe he's underrated.

Gibby tried to lose it with another ill-timed hit-and-run, but Pearce ruined Gibby's strategy.

UZR/150 has Kyle Schwarber of the Cubs as MLB's best outfielder, +24.4
Grichuk hasn't played 400 innings yet, but he's +12.1.

The good news - Happ/Stroman/Estrada/Tepera/Pearce are increasing their trade value as July beckons - now please come back healthy & productive Josh.

Bautista is warming up - wonder if the Red Sox would acquire him to play 1B.

if kendrys has to stay in the lineup due to his hot streak, then gibbons should consider sitting the ice cold smoak and let Pearce play 1b.

What's old is a new again. 2017/2018 OPS+.

Grichuk 95/89
Diaz 78/79
Travis 89/83
Pillar 84/89
Morales 96/95
Hernandez 131/128

Kendrys this month: .313/.365/.522 (wRC+ 141).

Another month of this and he might even have a bit of trade value.

Another month of this and he might even have a bit of trade value.

Sure, if any GMs see a single month's performance as more indicative of skill level than the past season and a half in aggregate.

Bautista is warming up - wonder if the Red Sox would acquire him to play 1B.

Why would the Sox replace a guy who's both hitting and is one of the best defensive 1B in baseball with a 37 yr old on a bit of a hot streak who has played 4 innings there in 4 years?

Chuck, if Morales performs like this for another month, he will have posted roughly a 140 wRC+ for two consecutive months. That might be enough for a contender in need of a pinch-hitter / sometime DH (sort of a Cliff Johnson circa 1985 role) to take him if the Jays eat (say) half his salary.

Probably it wouldn’t happen (the consecutive hot month or the trade interest), but stranger things have occurred (Vernon Wells, for example).

but stranger things have occurred (Vernon Wells, for example)

I hear you, but I think we need to recalibrate our opinions of modern day front offices. Every one of them has numbers guys (though who's to know how much leverage these guys have?). Would that there were still a Tony Reagins out there vulnerable for the fleecing. But his ilk is yesterday's news. And rightfully so.

Another factor working against Morales is the short modern day bench. When you have 3 or 4 players on your bench, it's really difficult to carry a Terry Crowley-type player.

But I do concede that anything is possible. Morales could stay hot. Someone important on a contender could get hurt, requiring a replacement. Teams might squint hard enough to see Morales as that replacement. Lots of dots to connect for all this to happen, but it is theoretically possible (just as it is that Charlize Theron will start returning my calls).

greenfrog, if YOU were the GM of (name a team), would you trade for Morales and half his salary?

Chuck: a modern-day front office traded six years of Teoscar’s least expensive years for a couple of months of Liriano out of the bullpen, so the post-Reagins era is not completely bereft of head-scratching trades.

Hypobole: ask me in a month.

imo kendrys is the same guy in his hot streak as he was in his cold streak - expected to be generally around a league average bat going forward, with no other attributes

It seems that the Jays will be sellers. How many trades are people expecting at the deadline? I think 2-4 trades. I also believe that a youth movement should continue during the rest of the year. So roster space has to be freed up for August. In Sept rosters expand and many prospects can be added but too much sitting of healthy vets is insulting to the vets I believe.

Borucki skipping his Buffalo start today, will be starting for the Jays on tuesday.

sweet.

Thanks UO. That is sweet.

Starting against Astros in Houston? Yikes.

Borucki vs Morton on Tuesday.

Astros 115 wRC+ is the best in MLB. Yikes, indeed.

Laurila with his usual fun and interesting Sunday tidbits, including some SABR 48 stuff. Here's a sample (complete with an oops I thought would have been caught in the comments section, but hasn't yet), courtesy of author and historian Dan Levitt on the evolution of baseball innovation.

“In the late 1970s, Eppy Guerrero was looking for about a $9,000 to establish what we now think of as a proto Dominican academy,” said Levitt. “The Blue Jays funded that, and their teams of the ‘80s, and their World Series teams in 1982 and 1983, were very dependent on international players. Clearly, Pat Gillick, who had been looking for another way to get players, was an original thinker.

“Phil Wrigley hired Coleman Griffith as sort of a statistician/psychologist in the 1930s. Phil Wrigley was kind of a goofy guy. He had hired a guy to put an evil eye on other teams. He was looking for original ideas, and obviously some made more sense than others. But the Cubs, in the late’30s, tracked… where each pitch went, where it was hit, what type of pitch it was. The Cubs were very much at the forefront of this.”

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-snapshots-from-sabr-48-in-pittsburgh/

These Jays can be so depressing to watch

Pillar and Maile looked clueless at the plate. Does Maile have an option?

Somebody could claim Maile and I'd be fine with it. Lets ewe Jansen.

The truly sad part is that Teoscar is the only position player ahead of Pillar and Maile by fWAR this season.

Yikes! Hurts my teeth to think those two were that valuable earlier in the season. That’s a mean regression.

Pujols has all the mobility of a cement mixer.

These Jays make the mediocre Angels look like contenders.

Is there anything this edition of the Jays is good at? besides losing?

Last 30 games:
AB BA OBP SLG
Pillar: 115 .165 .186 .296
Maile. 90 .167 .262 .311

Is there anything this edition of the Jays is good at? besides losing?

Nope. 9 teams better than the Jays at that.

sad comments for a fun win?

Actually the jays are 5th in MLB in doubles and 6th in HR's.

That why chicks still dig the Jays even if we don't.

What shows that a Team is really a Winning Team? Winning the games where they are not good in or just bad. Of course, to be a Winning Team, they should win most of the others. The Jays right now are .500 in the last two series, after sweeping Washington. Not quite there yet.

Trades where one Team retains the salary of the traded player increases the return. When acquiring players, accepting the salary of the acquired player decreases the return. This is where the Jays have good success.

Well, that was an epic blown save except it's not really a blown save in the 8th.
It does not look like any of the runs were actually earned, although I would have thought the walk by Loup would count.

Oh, well, another win for Tepera. Kinda weird to pinch hit for Diaz when he has 2 hits including a homer.

I still think the replay umpires are drunk. It would be nice to see what the replay umpires are doing instead of looking at the umps with their oversize headsets on. Come on! Let's go full reality TV with this.

What shows that a Team is really a Winning Team?

Upper case letters?

That's it, I'm fed up - that Morales guy is costing the Jays valuable draft position & pool money - I demand that the team let him go immediately.

The triplets. Can you tell them apart?

Pillar 276/410
Diaz 277/406
Travis 283/401

All the Jays have to do is win enough games for management to think we somehow have a chance at a wildcard spot and we won't have to worry about trading our old guys.
#goldenyears

thought that playing both teoscar and grandy in the OF would be the chance to sit pillar.

Last 15 games:
Travis: 298/327/558
Diaz: 291/297/400
Pillar: 190/190/349

"Chuck: a modern-day front office traded six years of Teoscar’s least expensive years for a couple of months of Liriano out of the bullpen, so the post-Reagins era is not completely bereft of head-scratching trades."


This was also the result of the Astros having way too many OFers. They got rid of Teoscar, lost Deshields to Rule V, and released Tucker for nothing in a 2 year period. That's 3 major league OFers given away for no return. Chuck's point is valid I think. A decade ago, you had front offices that had no idea what they were doing. Rich teams didn't care about money so tried to win via free agency. There is general agreement across baseball about how best to run a team and almost all teams value most players pretty similarly.

A 7-6 win only happened because the Angels have too many starters on the DL.
In 2016, the Jays reached the playoffs mostly because all of their starters were healthy.
Gaviglio has been pretty good, but I don't know where the ceiling is for him.

Boston has lost Pomeranz, but Wright has been better anyway.

The Yankees have lost Montgomery for the year, Tanaka and CC won't be making 30 starts.
I don't think they can win the division without trading for another top starter.

It's a starter endurance contest.

the teoscar/Liriano trade only shows that the Astros didn't think he was a prospect anymore - and tbh nothing in his hitting performance indicated he was a legit prospect either.

Plus what can only be gathered by actually watching him play are his very poor defensive instincts. As you've pointed out before, his best position is DH.

yeah, we really do have 4 DHs on the roster right now.

maybe even 5 depending on what you think of Solarte's defense.

though I do think Pearce is a good defensive 1B actually.

it's damn annoying because this should have been a good defensive team this year with only really LF a defensive weak spot.

Are we losing many games because of our weak defense? I am not challenging anyone.


5 DHs. Are they Morales, Smoak, Hernandez, Granderson and Solarte?

the numbers say our defense has been maybe the worst in baseball so far.

and I meant Pearce as one of the 5, not Smoak - though both play a solid 1B.

What numbers say our defence is worst?

Both DRS (-70 vs -22) and UZR/150 (-9.1 vs -3.4) agree the Orioles are far worse.

Also, the only Jay anywhere close to being an elite defender for his position is the guy half this board seems to want to get rid of. Yeah, that's Maile.

fair enough, baltimore is clearly worse.

Liam Hendriks just got DFA'd by the A's.

I remember the ire when we traded him and his years of control, although the return in the trade kinda merited the ire I guess.

I don't quite know why, but his past 6 years in the majors his ERA is a run worse than his FIP. Ricky Nolasco is the guy I always thought to be the poster boy for this effect.

I dunno if the numbers back it up, but to the eye test I think Grichuk is very above average in RF.

Or maybe my perception is skewed by the gloveless schmoes we were running out there before him (sorry Joey Bats).

We've had 4 or 5 DHs on this roster for the past two years. It has been my single largest objection to how this front office has managed the roster over that time period. The impact on run prevention has been significant.

Well it’s not surprising that the defence is weak as three quarters of the infield has generally been injured. Throw in a declining Pillar and Martin and that’s most of the defenders.

In terms of Morales, frustrating as he is, there’s others that frustrate me as much, namely a 20mm SS that doesn’t play and a 20mm catcher that’s now barely adequate as a backup. So I think we’re overdoing the criticism for just one of the three.

Anyway as I said earlier most of the 2015 playoff teams are in the sewer so we’re hardly the only ones. But hopefully we’re competing again in a few years, rather than waiting 15 or 20 like last time.

The many teams with starter issues reminds me of why I thought AA had the right idea going for as many quality arms as possible each draft.  Pitchers can always be traded - they are non-stop in demand and if they can't make it as a starter there is always a high demand for relievers.  Yes, a high end hitter can be far more valuable than a high end starter and far, far more valuable than 2 or 3 top relievers.  However, the draft is such a crapshoot that getting tons of live arms can create a good problem where you end up trading a Thor for immediate help and while it hurts it doesn't kill you.  Other teams will always want your pitching and if you can be patient you can get pretty much anything for it.  Plus of course teams need  20 arms a year due to injuries/ineffectiveness/etc. 

complain about the SS if you'd like, but there's no question we'd be better if he was healthy.

we would literally be better with Morales off the roster, though.

What do people want for the bench? C, 4th OF and 2 IFs. None can be paid more than $3 mil.

Or maybe my perception is skewed by the gloveless schmoes we were running out there before him (sorry Joey Bats).

More like legless. Bautista could usually snag anything he could get to, but he looked like he was running in quicksand in RF.

I agree about Grichuk's defense. He sure passes the eye test, anyway.

The last couple years of Bautista's tenure with the Jays constantly reminded me of that exchange in Major League: Back to the Minors.

"He got a bad jump on that one."

"Not only that, he ran too long in the same spot."

Some of the 1B/DH players will have their contracts expire at the end of the year. Hopefully we don't find similar replacements. In which case we will have less 1B/DHs on the team next year.

The 1B/DH overcrowding could still be our biggest roster weakness. How far below that do you think our next 2 weaknesses are. I really think our next 2 weaknesses are Closer (without Osuna) and 2 set up men. The lefty in the pen is also a weakness but not as bad as the 1st 3 weaknesses IMO.

Since May 1st:

.277/.331/.489 Morales (154 PA)
.224/.323/.388 Granderson (133 PA)
.222/.365/.410 Smoak (178 PA)

Over the last month, he's been the team's best hitter. Complain if you'd like, but there's no question that Morales makes this team better. Gio Urshela does not.

Did the season start on May 1st?

No, it started on March 29th, and since then there has not been a single day where it would have made sense to cut Morales.

May was a terrible month. 9 wins and 19 losses.
April was V good. June will be about 500.

If Clippard had not had a few bad games we may be contending.

Morales had a 34wrc+ in April.

Morales had an 84wrc+ in May.

As a DH with as little defensive and baserunning value as any player in baseball.

It made sense to cut him every single one of those days, and it makes sense to cut him now, even with his one hot month.

"I dunno if the numbers back it up, but to the eye test I think Grichuk is very above average in RF."

DRS and Statcast have Grichuk above average, UZR has Grichuk very above average.

"Not only that, he ran too long in the same spot."

LOL hadn't heard that one before, Parker

Current Blue Jays have 185 PAs against Justin Verlander and are hitting .262/.330/.488.  The leaders are Justin Smoak and Kendrys Morales, but all of them have contributed something.   For comparison, current Yankees are hitting .193/.261/.323 and current Red Sox are hitting .198/.264/.297.  Good pitching may stop good hitting, but who knew that mediocre hitting stops good pitching?

As others have mentioned, tonight’s start is an important one in terms of Happ’s trade value. If he can demonstrate continued effectiveness against Houston’s lineup, he will be that much more desirable as trade talks heat up.

Granderson has also hit Verlander well, so you get Grichuk in CF with Pillar getting the day off. He's been brutal over his last 150 PA, so he could probably use the night off. Hopefully that tricky corner in LF won't cause any issues for the defense.

Verlander was excellent in Detroit, other than a couple of seasons where he was dealing with back issues, IIRC. But since joining the Astros he's been absolutely dominant.

Detroit 2009-2016: 3.25 ERA, 3.18 FIP
Detroit 2017: 3.82 ERA, 4.07 FIP
Houston 2017-2018: 1.47 ERA. 2.55 FIP

But I do concede that anything is possible. Morales could stay hot. Someone important on a contender could get hurt, requiring a replacement. Teams might squint hard enough to see Morales as that replacement. Lots of dots to connect for all this to happen, but it is theoretically possible (just as it is that Charlize Theron will start returning my calls).

Chuck, plz txt ph#. Thx.