I don't have a good feeling about this set.

It's a little known fact, but the Spanish word for "An impending feeling of dread or doom" is "kendrys".

Buck thinks Seattle is ahead Houston because of bunting....ugh.

Well, that went to hell in a hurry.

Oh, no.

Tough to watch this team. I fear one must be a glutton for punishment to bother.

Biagini's season from hell continues.  Did we break him?  Was he never all that good?

Sorry I shall post this thread about on this Jays vs Yankees match.

[I]ts one thing to play someone like JD Martinez in the OF even though he really should be DH'ing. His bat still makes him valuable in that role. Its another to put players like Granderson and Pearce in the OF and wipe out most, if not all, of their actual value by doing so. They have turned interesting to good value signings into worthless signings by doing so. It's beyond me why the front office cannot see this. (Nigel Tuesday, June 05 2018 @ 12:57 PM EDT)
If management by front offices of different organization can be compared, the Rays traded the 1.1 WAR, 34 years old corner OF Denard Span and 0.3, 30 relief pitcher Alex Colome for a second round draftee, 24 years old SP Andrew Moore and an unknown 15 rounder, 20 years old. Can the Jays trade Granderson, a 30 year old relief pitcher, for example, Petricka, and a 10 plus rounder pitcher for a higher end prospect that is blocked in organization. Then Janssen, Smith Jr. or Pompey can be promoted. Martin and Solarte share duties at 3B and 2B respectively. Maile and Janssen start catching while Martin is the wild card in late inning at C or 3B.This season is the last on Pearce's contract.

I'd have Travis batting leadoff, Solarte second, Hernandez batting third and Smoak hitting fourth. Pillar would hit fifth and Martin sixth. (Mike Green Tuesday, June 05 2018 @ 04:48 PM EDT)

Travis' hitting average is .194 tonight....

The Jays really need to just bite the bullet and let Kendrys Morales go for nothing (ie: release him). As all he does now is eat a roster spot.  Before tonight's 0-4 with 2 K's he had an OPS+ of 59 ... or identical to the lifetime figure for all glove no bat John McDonald.  When you are a DH only and hitting worse than John McDonald it is past time to say 'goodbye'. (John Northey - Tuesday, June 05 2018 @ 11:53 PM EDT)

If Morales is put on waiver and no MLB team pick him up, does his second year of his contract still need to be accounted for? Numerous MLB hitters play in the Mexican League and the independent league Atlantic League . Could a guy like Morales be let go and play at league minimum of those leagues?

Holding on to Morales and giving him so many PA's is almost self-sabotage. The Twins DFA'd Phil Hughes, who was owed more than Morales. The Red Sox recently released Hanley. Teams are willing to eat up bad money. For some reason the Jays are not one of those teams. At this point the season is lost anyway so it's not hurting as much as it would have had they been in the race, but the DH spot can be used a lot more effectively.

Big market teams like Boston and Minnesota can afford to cut bait sooner than a team like Toronto...

Or maybe they just love the Veteran Presents(TM) that Morales brings to the team.

/s

Ironically, it's easier and makes more sense to keep Morales if you're selling off or not in contention since he is untradeable and you still need to fill the line up every night.

If Morales is put on waiver and no MLB team pick him up, does his second year of his contract still need to be accounted for?

Not sure what "accounted for" means. If Morales is released, the Blue Jays are responsible for the balance of his 2018 salary and all his 2019 salary. If another MLB team claims him, they will pay Morales the league minimum (pro-rated for 2018) with the Blue Jays paying the rest.

I assume Hanley Ramirez will land somewhere at the league minimum, but it's not a slam dunk that he will. I can't believe any team would take Morales at league minimum. But you never know.

When you stack your roster every year with 4 or 5 DHs, cutting one during the year is the least of your problems.

Oops - what Mike said - only better than I did.

Last Calendar year:

1.LF Granderson 485pa, 121wrc+, 3.0war650
2.3B Donaldson 586pa, 136wrc+, 5.4war650
3.1B Smoak 669pa, 131wrc+, 3.1war650
4.RF Hernandez 285pa, 123wrc+, 2.7war650
5.DH Pearce 330pa, 114wrc+, 1.0war650
6.2B Solarte 527pa, 106wrc+, 1.6war650
7.C Martin 390pa, 83wrc+, 1.3war650
8.CF Pillar 630pa, 83wrc+, 1.8war650
9.SS Tulowitzki 168pa, 79wrc+, 0.0war650

B.UT Morales 544pa, 78wrc+, -2.0war650
B.OF Grichuk 350pa, 89wrc+, 2.0war650
B.IF Diaz 207pa, 76wrc+, 0.3war650
B.C Maile 167pa, 76wrc+, 3.1war650

B.OF Smith 58pa, 143wrc+, +2.2war650
B.IF Urena 94pa, 61wrc+, -1.4war650
B.IF Travis 106pa, 51wrc+, -1.8war650
B.IF Gurriel 70pa, 42wrc+, -3.7war650

Keith Law retweeted that Vlad Jr. will be in AAA by the end of the month.

While I don't think the Jays should be calling him up, I DO think he should be in Buffalo.

I think we're all kind of tired about talking about moving on from Morales. Let's talk about moving on from Devon Travis.

Why?  Travis is an average defender at second base who is 27 years old, and has 100 bad PAs in 2018.  Gurriel Jr. was even worse and Biggio looks like he might be ready next year.  Solarte is a disaster at second base. 

Honestly I'm encouraged that Travis has been pretty much 100% healthy this year, and his workload is increasing.

I doubt he's lost his hitting talent completely.

Anyways, that milb stint did give us an extra year of control over him, so that's nice.

Travis might be the only current position player on the roster who projects to be an above average player at his position next year. You could also make arguments for Hernandez and Maile (as the backup) too, depending on your views of their defensive and offensive progressions (respectively).

Thanks Chuck. What you typed was what I meant.[...] I can't believe any team would take Morales at league minimum. But you never know. (Chuck, Wednesday, June 06 2018 @ 12:00 PM EDT)
As I typed previously, the Mexican League whose play has been classified as Triple-A and the independent league the Atlantic League take numerous former MLBers. At times, some MLB organizations sign batters and pitchers from those two leagues. The following names in the Mexican League and the Atlantic League may right a bell: in the Mexican League, the Cubans Alexei Ramirez, and Yuniesky Betancourt, Daric Barton, Kyle Drabek, Desmond Jennings, Jorge Cantu, Sergio Mitre, Horacio Ramirez, Jean Machi, Edgar Gonzalez and last but not least the Canadian Michael Crouse, in the Atlantic League Endy Chavez, Julio Borbon, Derek Norris, Jair Jurrjens, Josh Thole, Reid Brignac, Gustavo Pierre, Travis Snider, Emilio Bonifacio, K-Rod, Zach Stewart -- one of the other guy who came with Stewart to Toronto was Edwin Encarnacion -- and again last but not least the Canadian Dustin Molleken.

So the Mexican League can sign Morales if the Jays releases him...

No disrespect cyber, but I strongly feel very few of us care or will care what happens to Morales if he gets released.

I think the vast majority of us just want him released, the sooner, the better.

I think we're all kind of tired about talking about moving on from Morales.

Agreed. It’s like complaining about the colour of drapes on the Titanic.

So the Mexican League can sign Morales if the Jays releases him...

I think players who end up in the Mexican League or an independent league are doing so to earn a little money, not players simultaneously drawing a major league salary. I can't see Morales ending up there.

No offense to christaylor.... I was adding hyperlinks while you posted.

On one hand, let Travis adjust his hitter in buffalo. If Pillar, Hernandez and Grichuk are the three outfield starters and Granderson the bench guy, why not put the two young middle infielders Diaz and Urshela as starters. Solarte and Martin plays 3B. So a younger Granderson-esque veteran who can start more than Granderson does is need because at this moment the outfield trio performs better than the middle infielders. Looking at Triple-A level and independent league baseball, Donovan Solano seems to hit well in the hitter friendly Pacific Coast League but a previous first round draftee Nick Franklin is injured. If batters in the independent league the Atlantic League is considered, Jordany Valdespin had played in the MLB and won that league’s Player of the Month award for April/May of 2018.
On the other hand, if Travis' hitting is considering ready at this moment, then let him start at 2B. Are Lebliebijian and Lopes considered ready to play in the MLB? Last season guys Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney are performing and not performing in accordance to expectations: on the bench or a free agent.
Andy Burns is playing for his first season in South Korea; former Jays and currently Brewers Eric Thames played three seasons in South Korea before signing for two seasons of 13.5M contract. It will be beyond this season if Burns is returning to North America.

Thanks to hypobole. Regarding Morales, much has been said already so let us turn to Travis and others.
Regarding the middle infielders situation, I was just trying to look for help in possible ways using the internet...

The question with releasing players is who will replace them and what does it say to the rest of the team? At the moment there are few players who are lighting it up in AAA who you would say would make the team appreciably better. If you assume this year is lost, then it is probably better to wait until some of the prospects have more time to either get hot or get ready before making a replacement move.

Also, Morales has been a team mate for several years, the players might not appreciate his being released unless (1) he will be replaced by a better player, or (2) all hope for a playoff spot is gone and its time to look at 2019.

I am not sure if we are in either of those places yet. With the draft ending, GM's attention turns to the field. I think the Jays will wait until the end of this month before declaring they are thinking of 2019. That assumes the team does not start winning.

and what does it say to the rest of the team?

That is certainly a consideration, I guess. But once the injured bodies return, how will the math be made to work? When Donaldson and Pearce return, who is to be chased off this roster? Urshela, for sure. Who else? The 8th reliever?

And if/when Tulowitzki comes back, who then? Diaz would seem likely, but then you have no other "shortstops" other than Martin and Solarte.

One reason to move Morales is to simply clear the logjam.

Gerry - I think that those are currently good pragmatic reasons to avoid the outright release. However, Morales should be relegated to, at most, the RH half of a platoon with Granderson in the DH (with Grichuk, Pillar and Hernanadez essentially playing everyday in the OF). He should get cut when Pearce is ready to play.

And, what does it say to the team that an unproductive player keeps getting playing time?

Good question, Matheson.

And, what does it say to the team that an unproductive player keeps getting playing time?

Hi, we're shatkins!

My comment came out of my opinion that this season has no hope for a playoff spot. That means you make long term decisions for your roster. You promote prospects when they are ready and I don't think they are ready yet. I wasn't commenting on playing time, just roster spots.

I think there will be a lot of juggling come Auust 1, but until then its going to be mostly what you see now.

Every player goes through hot and cold spells and optimism is in the DNA of baseball players. Many of the roster likely hope that Morales can get hot soon. Very few of them can claim to be leading the team, they all have their own problems to think about.

And in Management's defense, I think they've had a really solid draft, pending signings of course.

ML club seems a bit like a ship adrift in the ocean though.

And, what does it say to the team that an unproductive player keeps getting playing time?

Which one are you talking about?. The last lineup had 5 players at or below the Mendoza line.

I still think that if the team goes the Nuclear option Tulo can be flipped to the Diamondbacks for Yasmany Thomas and a prospect. That would save the Jays 5.5 million and Tulo would fill a big need on the Diamondbacks roster.

During the Jays rebuild there could be the chance for Thomas to play more at 1B or DH and try and rebuild some value. I'd want a top 10 prospect, and Taylor Widener is having a great season.

Happ could be one of the best pitcher available at the trade deadline.
As a 1B, Smoak has limited trade value.
Relievers are always in demand, but it's not clear when they'll be able to trade Osuna.
Pillar is probably the guy with the most trade value.

If the season ended now, the Jays would  be drafting 7th.
I'm happy with Morales still playing. I'm not sure they'll be a roster crunch before they can trade anyone.

MG -- why? Just picked his name in order to change the conversation and Travis seemed a more controversial choice than Martin. Main point: Morales' future is too obvious and has been beaten to death, whereas other players on the roster deserve a discussion...

A day without Morales complaints is like a day without sunshine.

Lot of flaccid bats again tonight.

Does Solarte ever run hard down the line?

Morales is a constant complaint because at this point he's pretty much management giving us the finger, while smiling.

Wrong again.

Are you sure that finger isn't for you personally?

Good game spoiled by biased Yankees strike calling. Classical.

Classical.

Are you suggesting that the strike zone is baroque?

Nah, that's your finger pointed at me personally, hypo.

Actually, it more like Morales giving Atkins the finger, while laughing at him.

At least the defence looks good tonight...for a change.

This is the first time the Yankees and Jays have been scoreless through nine innings.

Ever?

Ever.

Based on a tweet from the Sportsnet Stats account.

Hey they're actually giving some effort on defense.

That was predictable.

So, why is Biagini on the roster again?  Ugh.

No defense for that.

So, why is Biagini on the roster again?

A fair question, and one that's been much on my mind.

On the bullpen depth chart, I would think Biagini is behind Morales by now.

Biagini and Barnes are both on slippery ground right now.

My hopes of a top 5 pick and no doubts about what to do in July are alive!

The fan in me can't help but root for the Jays to win while watching, but my pragmatist side is also rooting for the Rangers, Padres and all the other teams around and below our level.

Yep, back to the draft being the only interesting part of the year.

Just like old times.

This is going to be a long, boring season. Not only is the team out of it, but no young talent to keep an eye on in the bigs. I doubt anyone significant will be called up until May 2019 (Vlad, Bo, Jansen, Biggio, etc). A productive trade deadline that adds depth to the farm system would be good. Have to root for the impending free agents to turn it on over the next month and change.

Yes, if I'm watching I'm rooting for the Jays to win - which is why I've not been watching for most of the season - don't think I've watched a complete game this year.

Took a look at the top of the overall MLB standings for the first time in a while. Red Sox/Yankees still top 2, but I did a bit of a double take at #3 (no it's not the Jays).

Seattle Mariners, the team people were saying would soon fall out of the wild race, are 15 games over .500.

Did we find another Starter for the Jays in 2019? Pitching 7.0 scoreless inning always helps.

I tend not to blame pitching for shutout losses.

I think Biagini is there because Gibby chose him over McGuire as long man option.

I'm starting to remember Gaviglio's name. Is that a sign of something?

Yeah, Richard, thinking the same thing last night. Sure would be great if Gaviglio could grab one of those 3 (in all likelihood) open rotation spots next year.

It's weird to not have a single guy on the team right now that I check the boxscore for. No one threatening a great year, or just hitting for a high average, or even pitching that well. As mentioned above, not really even young guys who might be building their careers to something. Boring is a good description of the roster if you want to avoid directly insulting it.

A thread or two ago someone mentioned the kind of funny idea that the Jays have to send an all-star rep. I assume is must be Happ at this point, but if he implodes for a few starts (or even one, his ERA isn't exactly shiny), I guess Smoak? What slightly above average reliever would you pick out from this group?

Weirdly you can make a non-crazy argument that Smoak is a top-two AL first baseman (just like last year). Of course, the AL has somehow managed to gather the saddest collection of hitters I can recall at 1B for an entire league (using fangraphs positional assignments, which can be a bit fidgety this time of year). Moreland leads in hitting this year, but that isn't going to last (based on the prior 7 years of not being this good and being 32 years old). Abreu is the best hitter of the bunch, and then Smoak might be next. The NL has at least half a dozen guys as good or better than the best AL 1B, that's a strong imbalance.

I too am wondering how to make the baseball experience for the rest of the year more enjoyable.

The minor leagues are doing quite well. I am enjoying that.

The major league team is now in a transition/building process because the possibility of the 2nd WC is remote. I expect that this building process will be in phases. Currently I am pleased by the health of A Sanchez and the production of Y Solarte.

At some point this season the FO will let the prospects fill in the many holes in the lineup. I fully expect some to rise to the challenge.

Young players have to play every day not sit on the bench. I don't believe that we will see any C Colabello types. We soon will not be in a position to try to win. IMO development will be a higher priority.

I'd be more than happy to see Tulo and Martin help mentor all new fresh faces around the diamond along with Sanchez.

Everybody else (including Teoscar, Travis, Stroman, Osuna, Smoak) you trade away.

Tepera is the only guy I would circle with Sanchez, Tulo and Martin. Even if you can give away Martin fine, then just keep Tulo until the next crop. We could have a strong team in 2019 IF the Jays promote their prospects for some MLB time in September and IF they spend 50 million on pitching and hitting studs.

2018 -2019 Free Agents of interest

Puig, Harper, Eovaldi...everybody else is too old or in a position we don't need...like Machado.

AWeb - you're right. You made me look at the leaderboards (which I don't seem to do this year very often anymore) and Smoak does seem to be our most deserving candidate. He's legit top-2 at his position, while Happ is maybe top-15 at his.

dalimon5, that certainly is a plan. I don't expect it to happen.

Probably too expensive and the Jays would lose multiple draft picks. Possibly round 3 and 5 or something. What ever the rules are as applied to the Jay's market.

I agree that Smoak is most likely to go, but I would argue Happ is probably more deserving.

dalimon - agreed, Tulo and Martin seem like ideal mentor types for a young team.

bpoz - IMO to make it more enjoyable I think it's just a matter of jettisoning all of the older guys who are clearly not a part of the future. And the only real question mark there is whether Donaldson is part of our future or not. And maybe an interesting question is Pillar,too.


But otherwise clean house - Happ, Estrada, Garcia, Oh, Axford, Clippard, Granderson, Pearce, Smoak, Solarte, Morales all go, and we keep only the controllable guys.


CF Pillar
RF Grichuk
LF Pompey
3B Diaz
SS Tulowitzki
2B Travis
1B Martin
C Maile
DH whichever of the following bench guys you feel like:

UT Lopes - Tellez
OF Smith - Alford
IF Gurriel - Urena
C Jansen - McGuire


SP Sanchez
SP Stroman
SP Borucki
SP SRF
SP Gaviglio/whoever

I think mentoring is highly overrated. I'm not saying it doesn't mean anything, but where has having these mentors gotten us?

Or maybe you guys are right, which would explain some of the seemingly pointless callups of kids this tear.

Wow UO. I can actually see all of the 11 guys you mention not being on the team next year.

I also feel strongly, as you do, that no FAs will be added in the off season except for depth pieces. Mainly in the pen. Veterans that can handle being bad. Clippard, Oh.

Martin at 1B or all over seems intriguing.

The team will have good speed and defense.

hypo - I agree with you that mentoring is overrated. That being said, it's not completely irrelevant and if you're going to have vets around for that you can't do much better than elite pros like Martin and Tulo, imo. Especially that given their defensive ability they will continue to be useful players.

And maybe that's why they're keeping Morales around, to mentor the Spanish speaking kids.

the difference is that Morales is a severe liability on the roster.

I'm doubtful that Tulo is able to do much mentoring from Parts Unkown, where he is off rehabbing his latest injury.

Morales is only a severe liability because Gibby keeps playing him, although just about every batter on our team is a severe liability. The season is pooched anyway, so all he's costing is a roster spot (and further embarrassment to Atkins).

It does not seem to me that Morales is killing this team all by himself.

Last year the rotation was much better. Stroman was a #1. Happ was ok but only 145 IP. Estrada was a good #5 but not a good #3. The pen is letting us down both this year and last year.

The defense seems better this year but the offense is worse.

It is early still but so far this team may be worse. This team has the advantage of a great April. Even with that we are barely clinging to hope for the 2nd WC.

Non-baseball related, but former Toronto Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo is reported to have lost one the plum jobs in the league in a bizarre blend of sports and modern technology.

Gaviglio hung in there

Is he on an inevitable path to pumpkindom, given his gopheric history? Or he could be that flukey something from nothing that occasionally occurs at the major league level?

I'm pulling for him -- and he's third on the team in bWAR -- but his story could go sideways in a heartbeat and not surprise me at all.

"in a bizarre blend of sports and modern technology..." ...and marriage.

[Smoak]'s legit top-2 at his position, while Happ is maybe top-15 at his.

Given that there are 5 SP slots per team, top-15 at SP is equivalent to top-3 for a position player.

but how many slots for SP are there on the all-star team, chuck?

Mike Fiers is in his 8th big league season. Is his stuff any better than Gaviglio's?

8 AL SP/6 NL SP on the teams last year.

but how many slots for SP are there on the all-star team, chuck?

Ah, I see you your context now. Yes, there are fewer and fewer SP on the team every year.

Two 37 year old outfielders:

LH batter: .213/.347/.369
RH batter: .209/.349/.388

Time, waiting for no one I suppose.

But Magpie, the Mets seem to wait for those time doesn't wait for.

Good point Mike.  Grichuk has potential and is under team control for a few more years.  Whereas Granderson is only here this year then is a free agent so he'd be high on my trade list. (John Northey Wednesday, June 06 2018 @ 05:44 PM EDT) SP Gaviglio/whoeverdalimon - agreed, Tulo and Martin seem like ideal mentor types for a young team. [...] But otherwise clean house... (uglyone -- Thursday, June 07 2018 @ 10:06 AM EDT)
Can the Jays starts with trading away Granderson and 26 years old Urshela for a matured but young enough IF who is blocked by better teammates. An example is IF Marwin Gonzalez with the Astros. His middle infield teammates are Allstars but he starts at LF. Granderson fits that LF like a glove. Urshela just reprises Marwin's utility role when Marwin got 300plus PA at age 25 to 26; maybe Urshela can perform better but the Jays cannot wait. Marwin is a swtich hitter. Marwin was coming from a 23HR .907 OPS 2017 season to a downturn 2018 season but this season of 5.125 Million contract is his last before becoming a free agent at the end of this season. The hidden gem of this trade is the Jays can pick between Diaz and Gonzalez while giving up Urshela. By the same token, the choice could be Urshela and Gonzalez while giving up Diaz.

LHB LF/RF Granderson, RHB IF Urshela for SHB IF Marwin Gonzalzez

hypo - I agree with you that mentoring is overrated. That being said, it's not completely irrelevant and if you're going to have vets around for that you can't do much better than elite pros like Martin and Tulo, imo. Especially that given their defensive ability they will continue to be useful players.And maybe that's why they're keeping Morales around, to mentor the Spanish speaking kids.

If my trade idea could have gone through, could Granderson provide postseason experience and hence mentoring to the current champion Houston Astros? For [the Astros] who has [postseason experience] will be given more, and [Granderson] will have more than enough. But [the Astros' infield] who does not have, even what [the Astros] has -- [Marwin] -- will be taken.— Matthew 25:24–30

I'm going to bet the RH batter will have the better slash line at the end of the year.

It's polite in here....too polite.

There's a fascinating article (unlocked) over at the Athletic on the thicker laces on the 2016-17 baseballs with connection to both home run rates and blister incidence. 

This Wknd. series is a great opportunity for the Orioles to cut into the Jays lead - hope they take full advantage.

I don't care much for superstition (save for the Stevie Wonder song), but I believe that no good comes from hoping that your team loses.  Especially to an inferior team.  Bad luck is one reason, and you never want to hope for bad luck, which comes often enough on its own. 

It's a must see.

The 24th ranked Oriole/25th ranked Jays pitching staffs vs the 29th ranked Jays/30th ranked Oriole batters.

The Oriole hitters have the amusing distinction of combining for negative 0.7 WAR, despite Manny Machado alone accumulating plus 2.9 WAR. They've accomplished this feat by having 12 different position players with negative WAR, helped along by the most brutal defensive play in baseball.

no good comes from hoping that your team loses.

What happens if equal numbers of Orioles and Jays fans are hoping their team loses. It's a mind-boggling question.

I'm of the firm conviction that if you're not good, then be really bad.

Hey, I also worked at a firm when I was convicted. It was really bad for me, too.

Poor hitting and poor pitching don't trouble me nearly as much as poor fielding and poor baserunning. This weekend features two awful teams on both those issues. I really have to pass on most of this weekend's games. I have been a really active follower of the Jays since their very first game. I honestly am having trouble remembering a Jays team in the past forty odd years that I disliked as much as this one (even though this team isn't close to the worst Jays team). I'm sure there were one or two but they don't leap to mind.

I'm of the firm conviction that if you're not good, then be really bad.

No wonder the middle class is disappearing :)

Speaking of bad and good, Fernando Abad was suspended for 80 games for testing positive for Stanazolol. 

It's amazing, a big star like Julian Edelman gets suspended for PED and it's no big deal, the NFL just keeps marching on, while in MLB there's a lot of angst and pontification.
One change I'd like to see is that if a player is suspended for PED use, the team would have the right to immediately terminate the contract.

Players would have to agree to that in new CBA. They will have to give up something in exchange for the 154 game schedule that seems likely to happen.

Martin wants to become a coach once he retires and is probably a fine mentor.
I've no idea if he talks to Maile at all. Certainly not about hitting.
Incidentally, Martin is a converted middle infield and is listed at 5'10". Not a first baseman.

I'm sure I've seen something about Tulo wanting to play every day and not being interesting in mentoring anybody.

Does anybody still thinks Donaldson is part of the Jays future?
I say he's done with playing on turf as soon as he gets traded somewhere.

Stroman and Sanchez could be traded if they were not having terrible years.
Pillar should be traded as they have enough young outfielders who can play in center.

Happ, Estrada, Garcia, Oh, Axford, Clippard, Granderson and Pearce should all be available if there's any takers.

They need a guy like Smoak at first base to catch all the bad throws and he's still cheap.
They could open next year with Solarte at 3rd so the season doesn't seem lost by the time Guerrero is up.
Maile is interesting. He's only got 1 year of service time, but they have 2 catchers at AAA and Pentecost is 25 at AA.
Maile is already 27. They should realistically trade 1 catcher or they might just lose Pentecost.

Travis seems to be in the same situation as Grichuk.
The league has figured how how to pitch to him and he needs to make an adjustment.

Morales ...

I love Donaldson as a player but his body seems to be breaking down on a regular basis now - not worth an expensive contract.

I wouldn't trade Sanchez or Stroman even if they were having good years. It's clear that the Jays will eventually have a younger team sometime in the near future, and they have a chance to be part of that.

Morales ...

I liked the 2010 team. They had some young players. I don't know if it was a rebuild or what it was.

But the rotation IMO was quite impressive for being young and inexperienced. S Marcum was returning from TJ. 2nd full season for R Romero. 1st full season as ML starters for B Morrow and B Cecil. Zep got injured in ST or it would have been his 1st full season in the rotation.

The 2019 rotation could be young. A Sanchez and M Stroman would be considered veterans. Possible 1st full season as ML starters for Borucki, SRF, Romano. SRF would have AAA experience. Romano also if promoted to AAA. Soon I hope. Gaviglio and Biagini are in the mix. Zeuch could be ready at some point in 2019.

The 2010 pen was thrilling with K Gregg as closer. S Downs and J Fraser.

The 2019 pen has a big ? at closer.

So just a few of my thoughts on the 2019 rebuild.

I sure hope that we're further ahead in a rebuild in year 4 of shapkins than we were in year of anthopolous.

I hope we don't make a futile attempt to "go for it" in year 4 of Shapkins like we did in year 4 of AA.

I would be shocked if Shapiro and Co were as quick to rebuild as AA.
AA put the final pieces to a contender by 2013.

Shapiro and Co is/will be slower. They seems to be very deliberate in promoting their prospects to the Majors. They are filling in with Ngoepe and Urshela type of players. But to be fair that is just for the bench. T Hernandez is not considered a prospect. I suppose he should count.

don't worry, Hypo, we won't.

not in year 4. or 5. or 6. or 7. or....you get it.

AA put the final pieces to a contender by 2013.

Disagree strongly, bpoz. He thought he did, but it turned into a disaster, not as disastrous as Atkins first season, but a disaster nonetheless.

It wasn't until after AA's fantastic Donaldson trade and Osuna promotion in 2014 and the Tulo/Price trades in 2015 that the final pieces were in place.

Right, in year 6 the attempt won't be futile, just as it wasn't in year 6 of AA.

in cleveland 15yrs went by with no going for it.

hypobole, I know that you are talking about the bad losing record of 2013 as the disaster. No dispute there.

I remember Peter Bavasi saying something about selling the sizzle if you don't have steak. That is to make money I believe. First time Toronto had Major League baseball. A lot of sizzle.

The big trade additions for 2013 was great PR. That probably generated a lot of revenue. Boston only won 69 games in 2012. Their PR and expectations were probably dismal for 2013. They took our manager and were willing to pay dearly for him. We were not going to settle for prospects.

We were very/more competitive in payroll in 2013. We needed that because of NYY and Boston being in our division.

Shapiro will have to do something when the team starts losing revenue.

Increasing payroll has already been done. I expect a PR move. A youth movement. Slashing payroll helps the bottom line but I don't know if that will happen.

How is he going to sell a long rebuild?