yeah hernandez is a nice get. good job shapkins.

hernandez should immediately be starting for us.

Very good move. Better to spend salary on a good prospect than on another mediocre veteran. Hernandez should be in the OF very shortly.

What does the outfield depth look like for next year? Pillar, Alford, Hernandez, Pompey?

If both Hernandez and Aoki are placed on the 25 man roster tomorrow, who will be removed?

Good move. I hope that Aoki doesn't interfere with auditions for Alford and Hernandez, but he's a "system depth" type player and still could be flipped in August.

Hernandez is the real get and he looks deserving of a chance in the bigs. Ideally we'd move a 1B/DH type, shift Joey into that slot, and give him RF until October.

Hernandez has played mostly CF and LF for the Astros.
Bautista is clearly available.

Rosenthal has Joe Smith going to Cleveland. No return reported yet.

Tim Brown reports Toronto is getting two low-level minor leaguers.

I'm cross-posting this from the other thread:

Before we get too excited about today's trades, or the two prospects acquired in last year's Liriano trade, it's worth noting that only 18% of prospects in July trades will end up with productive MLB careers. That's according to a study of every July trade from 2003 to 2012, by Baseball America. It defines "productive MLB career" as a positive career WAR and two or more seasons on a major-league roster. Here's the study:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/prospects-in-deadline-trades-face-long-odds/#5Y3Z52vli4R4D48a.97

The prospects in the Smith trade are LHP Pannone and SS Samad Taylor.  Excellent.

Samad Taylor is young, just 19, and in his first full season. He could head to Bluefield as he was in the New York Penn League. Taylor is a 2B and was hitting .300.

Tom Pannone is a lefty who has a 2.62 ERA in 14 starts for Akron in AA. He will probably flip over to New Hampshire although their rotation is full. Pannone has 81 K's in 82 innings with a nice 1.07 WHIP.

Neither are top 30 guys, although Taylor was given a C grade by John Sickels.

LHP pannone looks like a borucki type prospect with a chance to be a decent rp.

2B taylor has no tools but has put up very nice numbers for his age and level so far.

Yankees got Gray without giving up their top prospects. Pretty good for them for a pitcher under control through 2019.

Pannone was a C+ prospect before this year according to Sickels.  He would be better than that now. 

Fangraphs opinion on Hernandez.

While Hernandez’s game power is limited a bit by his newfound approach, he’s an above-average runner capable of playing all three outfield spots (I have him projected in the corners because I can’t see him supplanting Springer in center) and has an above-average arm. Even if the hit/power combination isn’t sexy in a corner spot, it’s nevertheless viable, and Hernandez projects as a second-division regular. With Houston’s glut of outfielders at the upper levels, he might be relegated to luxurious fourth-outfielder duty as long as he’s in the org.
Hernandez put up a 93 wRC+ mark in 41 games as a rookie last year with the Astros and has slashed .279/.369/.485 in Triple-A this season. This is not a future star, but he could be solid reserve outfielder, which is perhaps more than would typically be expected in a return or one of the least effective starting pitchers in baseball.

imo hernandez has every chance to be an average hitter with plus speed and defense, which would make him a solid starter.

Hernandez is a better return than I would have expected.

The rest are meh. (meh is a reasonable return at this point.)

http://scout.com/mlb/indians/Article/2016-Cleveland-Indians-10th-Round-Pick-SS-Samad-Taylor-105505322

You never know with lefties. Pannone doesn't throw hard but he attacks hitters and executes.

Taylor was drafted in the 10th round as a shortstop but has played every games at 2B.

Smith's mother lives near Cleveland and has Huntingtons. I think the two organizations probably made a strong effort for this deal to go down for more than prospect reasons.

So the Jays didn't trade Pearce, Bautista, Estrada or Happ.   To be honest, I never really thought they would.

Here's David Laurilia on Pannone.   I like him better than Hernandez, and in this case, it's not a slight of Hernandez in the least.

The front office would have been familiar with Pannone whom they drafted.
He could start the year at AAA in the spring.

Few sellers ever deal all of their marketable assets at the deadline.

Besides, Bautista can easily be dealt in August and Pearce will still have value in the offseason (possibly more than now).

Personally I'd consider today something of a win for the FO. Maybe not a .969 WPA, but something in the 0.1-0.2 range.

I'm a little puzzled by the fact that Pannone wasn't officially considered a top-30 prospect for Cleveland, since his numbers would seem to warrant it.  But it certainly seems that he has drastically improved his ranking in the course of this season.  Jordan Bastian, who covers Cleveland for MLB.com these days, tweeted that some rival executives considered Pannone to be a top-10 Cleveland prospect by now.

Re: Pannone

Thanks for the article- reading that he's a former outfielder turned LHP. I'd love for a manager to have the balls to try him as a LOOGY then stash him in the OF in between LHB.

Sadly Gibby is not that manager.

He hasn't been a hitter for over 4~5 years.

The Jays have officially announced the Liriano deal.  They are trading "Liriano with cash" for Aoki and Hernandez.   The "with cash" phrase would suggest that the Jays are eating his salary, plus Aoki's salary.  So they're using their financial muscle to get Hernandez, who was surplus to Houston's needs. A better deal than I had expected for Liriano.

Of course you'd have to rename it the Lefty, one out, then switch to lf, then back to lefty one out guy (or LOOTSTLFTBTLOOGY for short).

He was drafted low. I don't think the front office is concerned about that.

Scottt, I don't need him to hit- just to snag a fly ball in the event that it is hit near him while someone else faces the 1 RHB in between two lefties (see terminology above).

gibby's the guy who puts Martin at 2B, puts sluggers at leadoff, uses price out of the bullpen. if anyone would try something like that it might just be the gibber.

So, Liriano and Smith off the 25 roster but Aoki makes it a smaller pen?
They'll probably just keep trying to deal other guys threw the waivers.

It's interesting that Pannone was described initially as a lower level prospect.  I was thinking that we were talking about someone in the Midwest League.  Pannone has already had 14 successful Eastern League starts.  He could easily be contributing to a big-league club in June or July after a triple A apprenticeship.  You might even start him in the long-relief role in the major league pen to keep his yearly innings under control. 

What a difference two years makes -- that said good work by the FO. I don't want anybody who has played in the OF this year to be a regular in the OF for the Jays in two years, or, even better, one year from now.

Yeah, he could be a depth starter next year.

So did we or did we not actually have assets to trade? 

Sickels on the Smith trade prospects. 

Nice trades. I especially like Pannone. Great BB/K ratios. He had a very good 2016 season, and has been great this year. Hernandez has a good combination of speed and power, and when you look at his AAA numbers, remember that Fresno is a strong pitchers' park, not one of the hitters' havens that are common in the PCL. Taylor has hit for a high average in each of his 2 seasons, is starting to show some power, and just turned 19 this month. Presumably Aoki is non-tendered for next year.

If I were to characterize the trades, it would be retooling for 2018 and beyond- rather than writing off 2018.

Pretty much everyone traded today was pitchers across the board. They seem to be the only ones getting any return looking at things like the Cabrera/Martinez trades. The Jays predictably were able to trade their two most promising FA pitchers. I'm guessing Estrada just didn't get enough of an offer to be better than hoping for a bounce back. Than again he does have a 9era lately.

Dodgers only had to trade one top ten prospect (4 for them) for Darvish. Indeed today was a buyers market.

Darvish cost the Dodgers their 4th prospect. The Yankees got Sonny Gray until 2019 without losing any top prospects.
I think the Jays did alright.

I have been dealing with depression for years.  I feel too much hostility right  now.  I'm trying to express myself in a fair way, and I feel like I have learned how to contribute fair value to this thread.  If I really have a 'hate on' I will choose to stop participating.

Nori Aoki starts for the Jays as soon as he gets here. The Jays need to decide on whether there's a reason to keep him next year. I expect if Pillar or Bautista are traded, Teoscar Hernandez gets the call ahead of Anthony Alford. If not, both should be up in September and playing a lot.

Tom Pannone should finish the year in AA with around 130-140 IP for the Year, maybe a bit less. In 2018 he might start the season in AAA, but if not, he'll be there soon. He will be a consideration to Start in the Rotation in 2019, unless he's needed earlier. I just don't know if he's a September callup in 2018.
The Jays have done well with this Deadline. It will be interesting to see who moves in the waiver-clearing Trade Period. Not everyone got what the needed/wanted so there might be early action.

I guess I don't have much to offer.  I choose to bow out.  I'm sorry that I am so annoying. 

Thumbs up for the articulate posts jerjapan. We don't have to agree on anything except mutual respect.

It really hasn't been a great season with that 1-9 start. I was planning to go see a game in July and I decided not to bother.
Here's to a more exciting lineup soon.

jerjapan, you offer a lot to me and you are not annoying. Please keep contributing, because my life would be even more empty without your posts.

I have no computer skills. Also I don't understand what the stats mean.

Most of my posts are ignored ie... not commented on.

I feel compelled to make a comment about my posts. They are bland. They are neither smart enough nor stupid enough to deserve a response, it seems to me. I ask da box to comment if they want to. My skin and skull are thick. So thank you in advance for what ever you say.

But being recently retired is great.

I have a beer. Cheers.

Just relax Jer and takes things easy. You have a lot to offer to the board. Remember life always comes before this board.

Jer, you do have lots to offer and are not annoying IMHO. I enjoy reading all the posts and differing viewpoints that are posted and as long as we all try to be respectful of each other da box will always be da place.

I like both trades. The Liriano deal was creative in the sense that the Jays are essentially paying for a prospect by taking on Aoki's remaining money to get Hernandez. The Jays are leading the league in attendance and are in good financial shape. As a quasi-seller, these are the types of deals they should be able to do with no issues. If a team was willing to take Liriano for salary relief, it would have done nothing for the Jays. Paying Liriano to go away, and paying for Aoki's salary gets them a potentially decent MLB outfielder with some upside. Nice move.

The Smith deal was also good in that they got a pitcher who might be useful as early as next season, and a lottery ticket in the lower minors. About what you would expect for a good expiring reliever at the deadline.

Hopefully the Jays can clear the OF logjam soon so that Hernandez could start in RF as soon as possible. Gives me some reason to watch the last two months, at least.

The guy has some amazing numbers as a starter this year and is in AA. And if he doesn't stick as starter that 91 FB likely jumps to 94-95 and we likely get a pretty awesome reliever.

Also good to add another MI to compete with Bo, Warmoth and Biggio. On the OF side I hope one of Hernandez or Alford breaks out in September or next year.

Who picks up Liriano's salary in whole or part? Don't think that's been answered.

So long as they have no plans to use Aoki then what SK said (better than I would have). Two thumbs up.

No, I don't think that is clear yet. Have to imagine that we are. Otherwise we made out like bandits.

Jer, I enjoy your opinion and welcome it. The box is strong because of the variety of opinions. As long as we are civil then I welcome discussion.

I thought I read it was Liriano and cash for Aoki and Hernandez, which seemed like the Jays may have been paying for both Liriano and Aoki's contracts, but that's just an assumption on my part. I don't think there's been any official word on that.

Kasi, your ‘anxiety’ expresses itself as antagonism all too often.  Jerjapan is one of the most fair-minded posters on the box.  You’re not.  I don’t find “disdain and contempt” in jerjapan’s postings.  (And I share his skepticism about our current FO.  When have you said anything positive about AA, btw?)  As I remember it, you left because you couldn’t keep out of insistent quarrels with other posters, something you said had happened in other forums -- which didn’t surprise me.  Respect is something that is earned.  And you haven’t earned much at da box I’m afraid.

“The hate goggles term is entirely earned.”  No, it is not.  But your conviction that it *is* reflects your own problems.  Your habit of vehemently overstating your views is a deep source of discord.  When you re-appeared recently, I said to myself ‘There goes the civility and fair-dealing’ on da box for a while.  I wish I hadn’t thought it; and I wish even more that I hadn’t been right.  Take your own advice to jerjapan, if you can.  Good luck.

SK is right that it has been reported as Liriano and cash but the amount hasn't been reported (to my knowledge).

Oh I must have imagined them being called Vader, automonations and a librarian than. My wife is a librarian, I don't particularly like that comment. Are those appropriate or fair minded things to say? Or is it okay around here to compare our FO to being evil?

And yes Dewey I did take those things to mind, if you look at the few posts I've made here recently the only contentious thing I said was hate goggles. If that is that offensive than I fully apologize. But I've seen china for example constantly defend Gibbons against posters. Heck he was defending reporters last week. Why is it wrong to step up to defend the FO personal. They're not evil, they're not stupid, they're not out to destroy the jays. They've made bad moves this season that deserve criticism but have made a lot of good ones too.

MLB.com already has Hernandez at #5, Pannone at #21 on the Jays top 30 prospect list.

MLB.com has Hernandez as a first division regular and KATOH also has Hernandez as a top 100 prospect in baseball

I really like that the Jays now have a prospect past A ball that has a right fielders profile in Hernandez. I feel more confident in adding one more younger guy to the outfield corner mix.

Guys, I just checked this now and I haven't read the posts closely, but thank you.  I was having a tough day, so this is much appreciated. 

Also, Kasi, FWIW I love librarians - I meant no disrespect.  I'm a teacher, and a few of my friends are librarians.  I would work in the library if the admin asked me to, and I'd be happy to do it.  Librarians rule.  They just aren't super risk-takers. 

bpoz, I'm glad you're enjoying your retirement. Keep posting. And if you ever have questions about stats, feel free to ask and you will get responses.

And for computer skills, I'm not the greatest either. I've been asked if I'm Amish.

I'm sorry too once again. I think some hasty words were said but I think everything actually came out fine. Sometimes conflict does work out. In fact considering some warm words I just read I feel positively happy inside. if I'm ever in your neck of the woods or if you ever come to do Austin I'll buy you a drink. :)

And on librarians that is having to change. There are less and less physical library jobs and more and more about how to manage information in all forms. It's some sort of weird hybrid between computer scientist, analyst and IT specialist. There just isn't enough brick and mortar jobs around.

Only poster that deserves to be called out here is Dewey, who is defending Jer by...doing the same thing to Kasi that was done to Jer? Ok Dewey... way to contribute to the conversation.

Word of advice to posters...dont expose your opinions on the Internet if you're vulnerable to criticism. It should be a safe and fun place but it isn't always. Not only is it difficult to know true meaning of someone else's posts, it's also unpredictable knowing how your own posts will be construed by others. Jer, I agree with Kasi in some of his / her points about your posts, but that is directed at jer, the anonymous user, not the person. I've got no idea who you are and I do think anyone has anything against any poster, except apparently Dewey. You shouldn't care what other people think of your posts..this is not a place where you get points for likes. Final note: BB is a better place with better posters, you're a better poster, therefore BB is a better place with your posts.

Thank you dalimon5, I just get down some times, but the Box is indeed a source of fun, and I learn a bunch as well, and like I told Kasi, I can do a better job about being chill about my point. and thank you Dewey as well.  For sure my students know you are my friend online, I love the call outs bro.  You make me a better English teacher!

is following the jays really the best cure for depression, jermo?

just want to say i'm happy all 3 prospects are statsguys prospects.

Personally I have no problem with any of the posters on here. I'm like bpoz and only post infrequently ( rather blandly,also ) but I read this site every day and appreciate the knowledge and insight everybody contributes. I enjoy the great coverage of the minor leagues that some posters provide,sharing the highs and lows of the last two playoff years, and as for this year, well, misery loves company. I guess the only problem I've had was enduring the constant sniping between uglyone and parker. I don't mind the odd disagreement between posters, but when it gets personal on every thread then I start to feel uncomfortable. No offense, uglyone, because I'm glad you stayed and I enjoy your posts. Da Box is a lot better when civility reigns.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ranking-the-prospects-traded-during-deadline-season/

Not bad, getting the 10th ranked prospect traded during deadline season despite Liriano being a lot worse than Quintana/Darvish/Gray/etc. I wonder just how much money the Jays took on.

And Patrick Murphy is back in Lansing and starting. Justin Maese should be close behind. Travis Bergen has also been starting in the GCL, he could be assigned to Lansing soon to, but likely in a bullpen role.

There's some pretty nice grafs on Pannone and Taylor over at Baseball America. In brief, Pannone has been throwing a little harder, sitting 90-91, but BA describes his curve as "slurvy"; and Taylor is credited with taking smart ABs and having "burgeoning" power.

I guess the only problem I've had was enduring the constant sniping between uglyone and parker.

I haven't participated in any sniping for three months, ISLAND BOY.

Is there any way you could focus on finding a way to make contributions to the forum without trolling?

I miss the days we saved all our bile for for Rogers Communications. :(

So do I.

I suppose I find it offensive for anyone who has not proven themselves qualified to manage a Major-League Baseball team, to ever at any point, refer to the current front office in such ugly, offensive terms as "Shatkins / Shapkins / ShatCom", at any point in time. I would like to think those people (at least the ones who aren't buying season tickets every year) would at least suspend their judgment until the current front office has had a chance to fail to win the World Series for six years. Like the J.P. Ricciardi Blue Jays did. Like the Alex Anthopoulos Blue Jays did.

I also find it offensive that anyone would post bullying statements against someone who, three months earlier, chose to stay quiet in order to PREVENT further bullying commentary.

I certainly have long thought that you were the bully of the box, Parker, and I believe that to have been the consensus.  However, you have totally been not doing that for a while now, which is great. 

If you really want to move past that era, awesome, I will never mention it again.   you are clearly bright and have some good insight.  But you can't claim that you were the bullied party based on many, many antagonistic things you said publicly.  I don't think you get to call people out for trolling.  And you even managed to toss some judgement in your latest post, again, about those of us who don't spend enough money on season's tickets to be real fans. 

FWIW, nobody here refers to the FO as 'Shaktins' in a crude sense.  that term floated for a while and I fully didn't get the concern - to me, and I assume many / all of the people that used it, it was a simple contraction.  the moment people commented that they found it offensive, I, and I believe everyone else round here, stopped using the term.  The term 'Shatcom' has been used exactly twice on the box - by you and me just now. 

I guess I just don't think about the past participle in this case. 

I know that I have ignited this conversation, and I am sorry to the community for re-opening sensitive topics, but I feel compelled to call out bullying. 

Sorry, Parker, to have inflamed you but I did say the problem I had WAS referring to the past, and I used it in the context that I had no problem with people having disagreements over baseball topics. Some of the best discussions on here evolve from posters providing different, and sometime opposing viewpoints on a certain subjects. However, when the discussions start to involve personal insults to each other then that is creating discord on an internet blog, which is the very definition of trolling.

There is a well-known journalist in a hot place rent by ethnic and religious conflict who is giving out popsicles to all.  Anyone got a good popsicle emoji to distribute virtually?

Speaking of hot-bloodedness, Marcus Stroman seems to have veered from hyper-enthusiasm to something a little less pleasant as the summer has rolled on.  I think Russell Martin needs to have a little talk with him about channelling his energies (and he can leave Annie Savoy out of the discussion!).

Good idea. This thread has become a hot place rent by conflict.

Rent By Conflict would be a good band name.

Thanks, Mike.

I just got to write them one post at a time. I'm just happy to be here, hope I can help da box.I just want to give it my best shot, and the good lord willing, things will work out.

Marcus Stroman seems to have veered from hyper-enthusiasm to something a little less pleasant

I was thinking the same thing. A likely not-yet-mature brain overly regulated by his amygdala and a cockiness born from being a small man in a big man's game seemed to have formed a combustible combination.

Sorry, Parker, to have inflamed you

Apology accepted, on the condition that you stop doing it.

Okay. but I did say the problem I had WAS referring to the past, and I used it in the context that I had no problem with people having disagreements over baseball topics. Some of the best discussions on here evolve from posters providing different, and sometime opposing viewpoints on a certain subjects.

Yeah. I get that. You couldn't have done that without making bullying statements against me? You chose to drag up something from the past. Maybe don't do that?

I get that you're referring to the past. That's obvious. Why are you doing that? The Blue Jays aren't the same team from three months ago. Are they?

Time out please. I have deleted a couple of posts that were not in keeping with how we conduct ourselves here.

a combustible combination

Smoak on the Water with alliteration!

Smoak on the Water

Fiers in the sky. We all came out to Montero.

I'll stop now.

Ezequiel to pinch-run?

Lots of Smoak in the air here in BC..

Ezequiel to pinch-run?

Is this another Deep Purple lyric or game commentary?

Thank you, Gerry for deleting my post. It was intended to be good-natured, but probably a longshot to succeed.

You're all good people. Except a couple of you...who shall go nameless...who are great.