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I got nothing up here. This song's an instrumental anyway.



This is possibly the very last game for the 2016 Blue Jays, so I want to share something similar to what I was fully intending to write around October 3rd, the day after the conclusion of the regular season.

Honestly, it looks like the 2016 team was going to be one historically looked upon with frustration, perhaps even disdain. This was a squad with so many unexpected pleasant surprises going its way, such as Michael Saunders' explosive first half, J.A. Happ's emergence as a top lefthander in the entire game (J.A. Happ fer crissakes!), Marco Estrada proving he's not a one season wonder, and a Rule 5 pick coming out of nowhere against any expectation to become both a key bullpen piece and a damn lovable dude.

They had all this going for them, the strongest starting pitching by ERA in the whole American League (imagine how many Toronto teams in the past 15 years would've killed for that?), and yet they couldn't make it work. Though their overall numbers were strong, the teams offense was truly a mirage of that performance. There were just so many long spells where these legitimately great hitters scuffled at the exact same time, resulting in tough loss after tough loss in painfully winnable games.

These guys didn't have the magic of the 2015 team. And well frankly, who does? That team went on such an insane late season run that the playoffs didn't become a dream, it became an inevitability. Maybe the 2016 version had that in their heads the whole time, an overconfidence if you will. Overconfidence is fantastic when you're a pitcher, it means you're not afraid to throw a strike and make a mistake. It can and will backfire but the majority of the time, that's a mighty fine thing to have on the mound. In the batters box? Yeah that can be a great thing also, you want a batter who isn't afraid of failure (because so much of hitting is precisely that very thing). But these 2016 Blue Jays hitters for the most part took overconfidence to a whole other level. They swung out of their shoes at so many pitches not in their zone because they surely believed they were capable of hitting that particular one a mile. That approach can work, and will get you big cheers when you're hot, but when you're not you just look the fool trying to pull a curveball six inches off the plate. Frankly, it was insanely infuriating to watch game after game and I was indeed negotiating with myself how harsh this end-of-the-season article was going to be on this underachieving team, squandering the golden opportunity before them considering their pair of surely departing free agent sluggers.

Then the Wildcard game happened. And the parrot took a walk-off walk around the bases.

Then the ALDS happened. And nemesis Texas took their sad dreams and their sad little punch into another offseason wondering what just happened.

And this is what will make 2016 such a strange year in Blue Jays history. A team at a crossroads, good but not great, with two franchise icons halfway out the door, until an honest to goodness playoff run happened. The problems they're having against the Clevelands are the problems they've had all year: these bats are up and down and there's really no in-between for them. 2015 was like asking the girl or boy of your dreams out on a date and they kiss you to say yes -- 2016 has been like that except some nights they're busy, other nights it's an obvious lie to be polite to you, but then once in a while you two go out and have a magnificent time. And then you wonder: "why can't it be like this every single time?"

Why not indeed. It's Kluber (18-9, 3.14)  v. Sanchez (15-2, 3.00), 4:07 ET first pitch.
ALCS Game IV: Capture The Flag | 96 comments | Create New Account
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Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 01:50 PM EDT (#334182) #
Well put, eephus. 
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#334184) #
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#334185) #
"so I want to share something similar to what I was fully intending to write around October 3rd, the day after the conclusion of the regular season."

All due respect, eephus, but your eagerness and planning to write this at the end of the regular season, and now actually posting it before they've even been eliminated, kind of taints the whole post, unfortunately.

I couldn't imagine a worse idea for a game thread write up going into an elimination game if I tried.

We are an easily spoiled fanbase, it seems.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#334188) #
This series, Andrew Miller has faced 17 Blue Jays and struck out 13 of them. Crazy.
rpriske - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:12 PM EDT (#334189) #
I was thinking aloud about this on a different site, and I think that the reason Francona might be using Kluber is a bit of fear.

I honestly believe that the Jays are a better team than Cleveland. I think Francona knows that too (especially with their rotation collapsing in on itself.)

The normal wisdom would be to trot Merritt or Clevenger out there tonight knowing that if they lose they still have Kluber on full rest for Game 5.

But what happens if the Jays batter Merritt around a bit? What happens if the Blue Jays hitters taste blood in the water?

The Toronto offense can be scary good. If they start grooving, winning tonight might just be the beginning. Francona needs to end them before they wake up.

Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#334190) #
I didn't take the article as a eulogy for a season, but an expression of yearning and hope. 

It isn't over yet.  I have things to say once the season is over, but I am hoping still that that time is about 2 weeks away. 

AWeb - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:13 PM EDT (#334191) #
I have had similar thoughts to those all year, thanks eephus! Still cheering for them, but such a grind of a team to follow. So many blown leads that have really come down to an offense not adding on another run or two in the last 4 innings (the Jays bullpen ain't good, playoffs excepted, but a few more 3-2 leads turning into 7-4 wins instead of 4-3 losses would have been nice).

Cleveland is making the bold choice with Kluber tonight, I assume due to the nonsense last night using the pen up. I see it paradoxically giving the Jays their worst (best?) chance of a sweep, but best chance of a comeback in the series. Kluber's never gone on short rest, ever. I'm hoping a few guys run into one tonight, or god forbid they even get more than two hits in an inning. Hell, just two hits in an inning would be nice.

How about scoring first tonight? Or at least being in the lead at some point?
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:15 PM EDT (#334192) #
rpriske - tito has a healthy respect for this team, so he's not going to take his foot of the gas even a little bit. his guys will get all the rest they need if they end it today.

tito said today the logic in using Allen ahead of Miller yesterday was that he thought it was a good idea to give the big bats in our lineup a different look, after having seen Miller a couple times already. He knows that even Miller can be gotten to, eventually.
rpriske - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#334193) #
Yep. He's a smart guy.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#334194) #
I think that the reason Francona might be using Kluber is a bit of fear.

Agreed. Pitching Kluber in game 4 means he can bring him back on short rest again for game 7. Neither is ideal, but it means "just" two Charlie Wholestaff games rather than three.

johnny was - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#334195) #
The baseball gods are against you when the opponent continues to win after losing 2 of its 3 top starters to late season injuries and a fill-in disables himself playing with a toy.  Once I've swallowed my bitterness, I might take some solace from eliminating the Orioles and outlasting the Red Sox, but I'm not there yet.  If it's just a wee bit too early for the eulogy, I see no problem in drafting it now.

On the brighter side, it really wouldn't take all that much to reestablish this club as one of the best in the AL over the off-season.  With all the cash coming in, it should be possibly to, say, resign EE and then go trade for Joey Votto.  Let Bautista walk and replace him by signing Cespedes or trading for Puig.  If some of these avenues are blocked, go instead after a big bullpen arm like Jansen or Chapman.  It's big money admittedly, but I still think the want/need list is shorter for the Jays than any club in their division. 

Alex Obal - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#334196) #
It's funny. I never saw overconfidence in their blindfolded overswings. I thought it was resignation, as in, "well I'm overdue for a fastball down the middle so clearly this is going to be the one!" The Gregg Zaun Attack. If he throws you a tough breaking ball in a fastball count, tip your cap. Again. And again. And again and again and again until the combined force of your whiffs and cap tips can be used as a source of wind power. It's seemed as though a lot of the Blue Jays' hitters have been more selective when behind, which would be insane. But this is just anecdotal so perhaps I am crazy? Definitely going to look into this in two weeks when the season is over.

I've never seen as many crying faces streaming out of the Dome as there were last night. Here's hoping we never see that again.
Alex Obal - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#334197) #
As in, "I'm not good, but at least I can get lucky." And there has been less of that in the playoffs, at least until they fall behind on the scoreboard.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#334198) #
I never saw overconfidence in their blindfolded overswings.

What strikes me is that everyone on the team is trying to hit like Encarnacion or Bautista. Everyone has the same approach. It's worked for those guys, it should work for me too. It's an attack of the clones, nine hitters trying to do the exact same thing. So if you get a pitcher who has trouble with that sort of thing on a given day - the good times roll. But if you know how to get one of them out, you can get 'em all.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 03:18 PM EDT (#334199) #
Pitching Kluber in game 4 means he can bring him back on short rest again for game 7

Precisely what Francona said - if it turned out that Bauer couldn't go, Cleveland wouldn't have anyone for Game 7, which is a time when you would really like to have someone. Hence Kluber today.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#334201) #
If the Jays don't take a few pitches early and score at least 3 runs by the 5th I suspect the season is over. Lets hope and enjoy this.

Feels a lot like 1991 did - like the Jays aren't going any further but lets enjoy as long as it lasts. 1985/1989 both were like 2015 - tons of fun and dreams but coming up short didn't feel like the end. It hurt but not horribly. 1991 and this series so far land under 'crap, but were the Jays really good enough to go all the way'. 1992/93 were both 'this is the year' and it felt that way from August on, if not from spring training on.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#334202) #
Eephus cited an instrumental - by a Canadian band, true, but still - an instrumental. And I like to sing along. So...

I told you once and I told you twice
But you never listen to my advice
You don't try very hard to please me
With what you know it should be easy


Oh, NO!
Dave Till - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:01 PM EDT (#334203) #
My takeaway from this season is this: older players get worse, always. Mind you, they get worse in different ways. Some are as good as ever when they are healthy, but can't stay healthy. Others have just consistently lost a little bit here and there. Even Josh Donaldson has proven to be less than indestructible.

For me, the emblem of the 2016 season will be Bautista's almost-catch of Napoli's ball. He tried his hardest, and he almost got there, but he fell just short, and was frustrated. So close!

Watching this team has never been easy, but I have a great deal of respect for it. They've tried their very hardest to overcome injuries, yawning bullpen gaps, and an entire league that has decided never to throw any more fastballs ever. The fact that they got this far is very impressive. (And is also thanks to Buck Showalter's brain cramp - Britton will be nice and rested for 2017 now.) And the fans have proven that, if you build it, they will come: Toronto led the league in attendance, and the fans were even more supportive and focused than they were in the Glory Days Gone By. On the whole, it's been a good year - I have a few new best-of memories for my Jays lifetime album.

Which will make the next couple of years tough. The Jays don't have much in the farm system - they never did, except for a surplus of pitching, which they sold off for their 2015 run. Unless they can somehow swing a trade for Joey Votto, or empty the Rogers corporate coffers to resign Bautista and Encarnacion and somehow restore their lost youth, 2017 and probably 2018 will be rebuilding years. All the fans will go back to waiting for hockey and basketball season to start again.
pubster - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#334204) #
I wish the Indian's used Miller the way the Oriole's used Britton!
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:20 PM EDT (#334205) #
Which will make the next couple of years tough.

Maybe. But this starting rotation sort of makes the team a contender in spite of anything else, and there's all kinds of reasons to think that group could be even better next year. Everything expected and still expects Stroman to be more than an R.A.Dickey type inning-eater. Replacing Dickey himself with Liriano should also be an upgrade.

The lineup needs some changes - I think they need a whole new outfield - but in particular, I think they need, not some new stars, so much as some different kinds of players. A little variety, rather than a bunch of RH batters swinging for the downs all the time.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#334206) #
tulo, happ, estrada are all examples of older players who got better this year, not worse.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#334207) #
and of course the jays were only 4 wins worse this year than last, and are again in the alcs.
John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#334208) #
A reminder - only 3 other teams are still playing. All other AL East teams are golfing now as are all AL West teams and all but one AL Central team. 26 other teams would LOVE to be where the Jays are right now.

Lets try to enjoy this. Remember, Sanchez is here for years to come as are Stroman, Happ, with one more year for Estrada & Liriano depending on what the Jays decide to do with them once their contracts run out. Our very young ace closer is here for 4 more years at least. That is a situation most teams would drool over.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#334209) #
Russell Martin looks like his early season self. Pretty close to an automatic out.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#334211) #
The lineup needs some changes - I think they need a whole new outfield

As little as I enjoy watching Pillar bat, he's an very inexpensive 3-4 win player likely to deliver similar value next year. I see no need to replace him in CF.

None of us know what fate has in store for the 3 would-be DHs (Encarnacion, Bautista, Saunders), but let's assume that one is re-signed and becomes the primary DH. That would mean that absent any acquisitions, Upton and Carrera would be the starting LF and RF and Smoak the starting 1B. Obviously, that would be less than inspiring.

Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#334213) #
Is TBS serious with this? Interviewing Tomlin trumps the game itself?
sam - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#334214) #
Chuck, see Toronto at-bats, yes.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:05 PM EDT (#334215) #
Finally, a mistake pitch.
sam - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#334216) #
Chuck, I take back everything I ever said, ever.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:06 PM EDT (#334217) #
JD jumps on a hanger. I wonder what Tomlin thinks about that.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#334218) #
1st time cleveland has trailed in the playoffs. that's nuts.
AWeb - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:10 PM EDT (#334219) #
Finally a lead after only 30 innings!
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#334220) #
heh yeah that tomlin interview was infuriating.

"actuallly here's ONE MORE question for ya...."
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#334222) #
Why is Ripken proposing a H&R? Tulo is slow and Martin swings and misses a ton.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#334223) #
Yup. I wouldn't even consider bunting with Tulo on first.
sam - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#334224) #
Ugh, Saunders. DO YOUR JOB!
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#334225) #
He may be slow, but that was great base-running by Tulowitzki. Perfect read.
sam - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#334226) #
I'm sorry, but three pitch strikeouts in these situations is ridiculous.
sam - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:30 PM EDT (#334227) #
are*
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#334228) #
up at 76 pitches and the top of the order coming up i imagine that's it for kluber. 2r/4ip probably wasn't what tito envisioned as a reward for the risk of overworking him.

hopefully we don't squander this.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#334229) #
damn they brought him back out. love tito.

Sanchez now at 95 pitches. dominating. just got though the tough part of the order. not scheduled to pitch until the world series....bring him out for another, no?
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#334230) #
3 inches too low. damn.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#334231) #
Squandering baserunners. I've seen this before.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#334232) #
Saunders looks a lot better.  That last single up the middle was on a pretty decent pitch.  He looks much more like the first-half hitter.  Very good news.
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#334233) #
really felt like a bad squander there.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#334234) #
That kind of squander doesn't bother me.  Zeke hit the ball very hard but a little bit of bad luck and some fine defence turned it into an out.  There's been a lot of that happening on both sides.
Four Seamer - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#334235) #
Not really going to miss the Kevin Pillar Era too much when it's over.
Kasi - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#334236) #
Well bases loaded no out. This is the time to put them away and make them pay for bad defense.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#334237) #
Ryan Goins, rally starter.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#334238) #
"Encarnacion, who very rarely hits the ball on the ground" yet somehow grounded into 22 double plays this season.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:47 PM EDT (#334239) #
The TBS crew wasn't supposed to actually prepare, were they?
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#334240) #
"Carrera and Bautista both have fantastic outfield arms"
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:05 PM EDT (#334241) #
BJ in RF?
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:07 PM EDT (#334242) #
Cleveland announce a SP for game 5?
James W - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#334243) #
No, he never plays RF. He takes Bautista's spot, but Carrera moves to RF and Upton plays LF.
James W - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:09 PM EDT (#334244) #
Yes, Ryan Merritt.
Bid - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#334245) #

Maybe the ALDS sweep was an aberration and the Jays otherwise only win elimination games.
Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#334246) #
Ball game tomorrow. Good. I actually finished a draft of the Report Card, and now I have time to polish. Excellent!

Need quite a bit more time, fellas. If you would be so kind...
uglyone - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:16 PM EDT (#334247) #
i don't care what tomlin did to us last game - Estrada/Happ v Merritt/Tomlin means there's no excuse not to get this to game 7.

and then it's Kluber on 2nd consecutive short rest.
Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:17 PM EDT (#334248) #
Yes, Ryan Merritt.

A lefty with 11 career major league innings. The bullpen will be on standby from the get go, I imagine.

Barney will sub in for Goins. Who will Upton replace? Saunders? Carerra? Neither? My guess is Saunders, whom Gibbons turned into a platoon player in the second half.

BlueJayWay - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#334249) #
Looks like a Charlie Wholestaff game tomorrow for Cleveland. Imperative they do better than last night and get a lead before Miller/Allen show up.
Mike Green - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:19 PM EDT (#334250) #
I hope they let Saunders face the lefty.
eudaimon - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#334251) #
The run differential for this series is +1 for Cleveland. Certainly far from dominance.
China fan - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#334252) #
Carrera now has 2 triples in this series, plus an OPS of .857, plus a warning-track line-drive that nearly went for extra bases.  He's flashing power and speed, and he finds ways to get on base.   I realize it's all fueled by a high BABIP and it's unsustainable and all the rest of it, but he's sure an interesting story to watch.
SK in NJ - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#334254) #
Good to see the Jays put up a fight. All they can do is take it one game at a time. It's a huge long shot, but just play your hearts out and let the chips fall where they may.
jerjapan - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 07:58 PM EDT (#334255) #
The TBS guys are pretty mediocre, but I did like their description (forgot who specifically) of Carerra as 'the swiss army knife' of the Jays.  He's not a great bench player, but he's certainly a solid one.

Especially since I keep hearing about his 'great' arm.... 

Where the heck did that idea come from?

Personally, I would have left Osuna on the shelf today but other than that, a great win, and I like our chances tomorrow. Game 6 is the key?

John Northey - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#334256) #
Right now game #5 is the key. Every game will be key now until the World Series. I liked how the Jays looked for the most part but still missed a lot of chances to make it a blowout.

Jays have a big advantage in having a solid 4 man starting staff vs Cleveland having a deep very good pen. Ideally Miller isn't seen again. Osuna only throwing 10 pitches (9 strikes) was nice. Grilli was at 12, Cecil 11. Good to have all 3 ready for tomorrow if needed. If Cecil was only healthy last post-season we might be talking about the Jays trying to defend a World Series. Sigh.
scottt - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#334257) #
Back to Estrada. They have to be careful here of hitters sitting on change ups.

Merrit has 5 Ks, O BB and 6 hits in 11 innings.

88mph fastball, 85mph slider, 80mph changeup and 72mph curve.

It's the type of guy the Jays should be obliterating but usually can't square.

Chuck - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 08:16 PM EDT (#334258) #
Ideally Miller isn't seen again.

Do you know something we don't know? Got a couple of thugs casing his hotel room?

Magpie - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#334259) #
In case you haven't seen it, Bill James on who should be this year's Gold Glove centre fielder:

You have to understand: (A) I love Jackie Bradley Jr., and (B) I absolutely adore Kevin Kiermaier. Kiermaier is my favorite player in baseball to watch, if not my favorite player EVER to watch. I've never seen anything like him; he is just hypnotic--so strong, so graceful, so fast. I always think that this must be what watching DiMaggio was like....

So for me to vote for Kevin Pillar ahead of Bradley AND Kiermaier, he has REALLY got to be impressive. And he was really, really impressive. The Blue Jays beat us 10 out of 19 this year, and it was Pillar who beat us; it wasn't Sanchez or Encarnacion or Estrada, it was Pillar. You just can't keep an inning going with him in center field; he runs everything down, deep or shallow; you hit the ball in the gap, he catches it, you hit a little dunker over second base, he catches it. The only way you can keep a rally going against Toronto is to hit the lines.

He rips the heart out of the offense. You feel like there is nothing you can do, that no matter how hard you hit the ball, no matter where you hit it, he's going to catch it.
jerjapan - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 09:49 PM EDT (#334260) #
fantastic quote Magpie.  When people complain about Pillar's bat, I wonder just how often they watch him in the field ... the most exciting Jays defender since ... Devo / Alomar? 
scottt - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 10:15 PM EDT (#334261) #
Carrera now has 2 triples in this series

And only 1 in the last 2 regular seasons. He might be playing harder.
scottt - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 10:25 PM EDT (#334262) #
I hope they let Saunders face the lefty.

He's been really good against righties, but that doesn't mean anything either way.

When was the last time Saunders faced a lefty? Wasn't that like a month ago?
scottt - Tuesday, October 18 2016 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#334263) #
Let's see.

Saunders against lefties this year.

123 PA, 10 BB, 8 HR, avg .275, OPS .927
136 PA, 13 BB, 9 HR, avg .275, OPS .874 for Upton.

That looks like a wash to me. I'd rather have Upton on the bases, but it really doesn't matter.

Glevin - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 02:48 AM EDT (#334264) #
"The TBS guys are pretty mediocre, but I did like their description (forgot who specifically) of Carerra as 'the swiss army knife' of the Jays. He's not a great bench player, but he's certainly a solid one."

I saw that too but it doesn't make any sense to me. A"Swiss army knife" player to me is someone like Tony Phillips who you could slot in different positions and different places in the order. Carerra is just a light hitting backup Ofer who should be hitting at the bottom of any order when he plays. There's no more versatility there then any other similar player.


China fan - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 06:17 AM EDT (#334265) #
I don't even listen to TBS any more.   It's too annoying.  They know nothing about the Jays, and they have zero insights.  I only turn up the volume to catch the crowd reaction in the dome when the Jays do something good.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 07:43 AM EDT (#334266) #
I don't even listen to TBS any more.

"Hello, America. We don't know any more about the Blue Jays than you, so let's learn together. For now, we'll assume the outfielders all have strong arms and we'll make other assorted generalizations about their players to fit our preferred narrative. Advance prep? Oh yeah, we've done lots of that. What about the Indians do you need to know?"

In game 3, the camera panned to the Jays' bullpen. Ernie Johnson: "A lefthander and a righthander are warming up". What Ernie didn't say was that he had no idea who they were.

I don't pine for Buck and Pat -- in fact, their brief and pointless visits trigger instantaneous muting -- but I'd enjoy just a little professionalism from TBS. And I'd like to see even the smallest amount of evidence that the grammar torturing Darling actually went to Yale (of course, so did W, so maybe I'm giving the Ivies too much credit).

AWeb - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 07:51 AM EDT (#334267) #
The TBS broadcast has struck me as Ernie Johnson, capable play-by-play guy, in a booth with complete amateurs, like I would hear in a locally broadcast high school game. Weird pauses, awkward silences, then too much talking. Not great voices either. The colour guys (Ripken, Darling?) are actively detracting from the broadcast for me.

Last night was perfect for the Jays, as I noted earlier in the thread, it was a best-case (series) and worst-case (single game) setup for them, and they won. Phew! How about actually crushing a soft-tossing lefty tonight before the bullpen of doom is summoned. A quick 4 runs would be nice...

Even if the Jays lose, can we send Cleveland a starter or two for the World Series and get a few player rings that way? This is a ridiculously terrible/inexperienced starting staff they have left, aside from Kluber.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 08:33 AM EDT (#334268) #
The TBS broadcast has struck me as Ernie Johnson, capable play-by-play guy

He may well be capable, I just haven't seen evidence. He seems (a) entirely uninterested and (b) put out, as if he's being forced to slum in some baseball backwater.

And on the rare occasion he does show interest, usually on an Indians' defensive play, he's off the mark. Crisp makes a nice, but not terribly demanding, catch off Donaldson, and he's raving like Willie Mays is in the house. Guyer makes a nice (it was nice!) catch off Pillar but loses focus, raving about the catch and not acknowledging that Pillar had achieved his goal of driving in the run (after Guyer had misplayed a double into a triple in the first place).

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#334269) #
Maybe I am getting soft in my dotage, but I don't mind the TBS crew.  I'll grant all of their deficiencies, and add one of my own.  Sometimes they don't tell us what they see.  Cal Ripken remained silent about the outfield arms even after seeing Carrera and Bautista throw.  He knows an outstanding arm when he sees one.  He's Cal Freaking Ripken.  Jim Palmer would have said "Bautista's relay to Goins took two bounces" or "Bautista's arm looked weak on that throw to Goins" or some such thing.  They seem hellbent on avoiding conflict.  On the other hand, I do get some insights into thought processes from Ripken and Darling.  I'll take the good with the bad.

Here's John Sickels' scouting report on Ryan Merritt. 




John Northey - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 09:10 AM EDT (#334270) #
I've been watching mostly on my computer as I have a 2 year old who is a BabyTV addict. Luckily that means I can turn on the radio for audio in sync with the TV picture. I tried listening to the TBS crew but found I was listening to a 1980's broadcast when batting average (did you know Travis was the only guy to hit 300 for the Jays? Did anyone here care?) RBI, and clutchiness are all that matter. Funny how suddenly our home town announcers sound so much better than they did in the regular season given that. Even Buck & Pat.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#334272) #
Maybe I am getting soft in my dotage

The broadcasters that I chase off my lawn, I'll send them to yours.

jerjapan - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#334273) #
"someone like Tony Phillips who you could slot in different positions and different places in the order"

Glevin, I love my some Tony Phillips, but I think they were referring more to Zeke's ability to bunt, pinch run, steal a base etc, rather than play the IF.

He's nothing special, but he's really emerged as a quality 5th OF IMO.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#334274) #
No lawn.  Too much work to keep it watered, cut and weeded.  Perennials now, cacti and succulents soon.  Maybe you want to place one or two broadcasters on a barrel cactus...

On a somewhat related note, here's Mark Kingwell on Trump, baseball and accepting the possibility of defeat.   It should be noted that Trump was tweeting about rigged elections in 2012 when he had no personal skin in the game. It's often hard to tell with him what is personal (assertion of dominance and infallibility) and what is very calculated (stirring up feelings of grievance- we wuz robbed- for long-term political gain).  Anyways, it is true what Kingwell says about baseball.
uglyone - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:24 AM EDT (#334275) #
I agree with glevin - Swiss-army knife makes sense when you look at a super utility guy, not so much with your typical speedy backup OF.
Dave Till - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#334276) #

Maybe I am getting soft in my dotage, but I don't mind the TBS crew.

I just realized that what I don't like about the TBS lead announcer is that he has one of those Serious Baritone voices, and seems to take himself quite seriously. He's a man doing his job, rather than somebody enjoying watching a game of baseball.

Compare this with Dan Shulman, who is just as professional but actually seems to be enjoying himself while doing his job. And Vin Scully was at the top of the heap for both professionalism and enjoyment.

I think it was Willie Stargell who once said that they say "Play ball!", not "Work ball!"

Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#334277) #
Swiss-army knife

Carerra is like a dollar store Swiss army knife. Not as many functions or as high quality as you'd hoped. But cheap, and does a few things just well enough to be halfway useful.

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#334278) #
Compare this with Dan Shulman, who is just as professional but actually seems to be enjoying himself while doing his job. And Vin Scully was at the top of the heap for both professionalism and enjoyment.

I agree.  There is no comparison. 

Returning to Magpie's Bill James quote, it is pretty obvious that Pillar and Kiermaier are the two best defensive centerfielders in the American League and have been so for several years.  I don't know that James' observations of 19 games for each (well, fewer for Kiermaier) helps in deciding who was better.  If you look at the numbers, it's pretty clear that Pillar has been great while Kiermaier has been better- with about the same range and a better arm.  The difference in 2016 is that Kiermaier played much less. I don't think you can go wrong giving the GG to either of them.  Well, actually, they are easily the two best defensive outfielders in the league and it is (I think) a bit silly to break GGs down by OF position given that OFs do move around a fair bit. 
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#334279) #
Today is Jose Bautista's birthday. A special hat trick - home runs to right, center and left- would be a nice present to himself and us.
Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#334280) #
It's weird actually.  These two clubs have four players with birthdays today- Bautista, Happ, Tomlin and Rajai Davis.  There have been 60 players in MLB history with this birthday. 
uglyone - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 12:37 PM EDT (#334281) #
it's true that pillar and kiermaier are far and away the best defensive CF in the game, but don't be surprised if that red sox bias gives the award to Bradley.

As for Carrera - i'd call him just a plain old pocket knife. Limited use and not all that great a weapon, but easy to carry and effective in the right situation.
uglyone - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#334282) #
Upton in for Saunders at DH.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#334283) #
Upton in for Saunders at DH.

Interesting that he's not in the field in lieu of Bautista. Gibbons must really hate Saunders' defense, ensuring he only comes into the game as a DH (presumably the moment Upton sees a RHP).

Mike Green - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#334284) #
Jonah Keri @jonahkeri

Melvin Upton DHing, Jose Bautista in RF, because purple monkey dishwasher

Jonah has a point.  If you're going to play Upton, he is a better defender than Bautista.  No snickers please.


Magpie - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#334285) #
actually seems to be enjoying himself while doing his job.

That goes a long way with me, too - it's one of the reasons I didn't even mind Joe Carter all that much when he was working the games. By any objective measure Joe was roughly the worst analyst in human history. (Which you might expect from a guy whose approach to hitting was "see ball, hit ball" and whose approach to defense was "just point me where you want me to go.") But Joe seemed to take enormous pleasure in watching a ball game and talking about it. He thought it was fun. And he was right.
Chuck - Wednesday, October 19 2016 @ 04:42 PM EDT (#334303) #
New team approach: swing at nothing.
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