The last thread (San Diego series) is up to 410 posts now.  Good work guys!  Lots of keen interest in the Jays again this year -- and the team is leading the league in attendance too.

Cooking with gaus.

Would like to see Smoak's K rate get under 75%

Marvelous play by Barney there. He's really been an unexpectedly unsung hero for this squad.

I credit Gibbons on playing Barney over Travis. Not based on some small sample but based on defence considering offence.

That was a pretty miserable play by Martin, compounding his mental error in not covering third off contact with a physical error on the catch. At least as far as the eye test is concerned, his defensive play has been underwhelming this year.

All is forgiven, Russell. Nice RBI.

This isn't looking like it's going to be a long start for Estrada. Good to see the bats showed up.

Some weird mental mistakes tonight (Martin, Pillar). Wonder if the boys are a bit tense considering the stakes. It's still July, but this series seems bigger than it probably should be.

Enough Estrada. Let's see the Magic Bullpen Show.

This has not been an umpiring clinic tonight. Both teams have had reason to gripe.

Tabler thinks Brach is in line for a hold... even though his team is losing.

Bautista replaced for defense. Has this ever happened before?

Victory.

Half a game back.

Benoit in the 7th was a ballsy move by Gibbons. His stuff looked good but he needs to iron out the control that has failed him this season.

Nice win.

Good start.  Vance Worley lived dangerously there for quite a while. 

Benoit looks better than Storen at the least. I can't imagine why Seattle did that deal.

Great win. 1 run game at that.

Benoit does look better than Storen.   The decision to leave him to face Kim after the 4 pitch walk to Jones was not an easy one.  Credit to Gibbons for that.  I imagine that he would have brought in Cecil had it been a one-run game. 

I can't imagine why Seattle did that deal.

He's ten years younger, and he was a good pitcher until this year. They're thinking maybe they can fix him, maybe he just needs a change of scene.

Fair enough. Since Seattle is not in our division I'll wish them the best of luck. I think they'll need it.

Benoit's only given up runs in one of his last nine appearances, though he did get clunked in that one game. Could well be a nice pick up.

I think that Benoit deal represented Seattle returning the favour for Leblanc. I remember Atkins saying at the time of the Leblanc deal that Seattle owed us one.

I think that Benoit deal represented Seattle returning the favour for Leblanc.

Good point, PeterG. And if that is indeed relevant, then I think I would have to say: well played Atkins.

I'd rather barney plays for smoak instead of travis.

travis came back from injury witbout much rehab time, and was about a 0wrc+ for his first 50pa or so (aka useless). But in the 150pa since he's posted a ridiculous 150wrc+ or so. And of course he was one of our best last year too.

If he's being rested for health reasons fine (though with the day off that's unlikely) but he's one of our impact hitters and shouldn't be considered less than that by gibby anymore imo.

Yeah, the losing hold got me as well.

Benoit looked good to me. Nice fastball. He throws his slider for strikes and the splitter while mostly in the dirt is nearly unhittable. Nothing seems to faze him even if he kicks the bag here and then.

With Storens we probably see Cecil here instead and we all know how that has worked out.

We're probably not going to see Barney play for Smoak because Upton will be the one playing for Smoak so that Saunders or Bautista can DH.

Goins has not been able to hit and he's in Buffalo. Barney has been huge while Travis was on the DL and he will keep getting enough starts to stay sharp.

I can't believe a fan actually touched Trumbo after a play. That could have been costly.

Was nice to see Bautista bag one.

I was impressed by how Showalter was able to keep his catcher from getting ejected.
That's some skills.

The Jays have had a hard time with mediocre teams throwing a lot of junk at them.
They had no problem with Gausman's junk and the guy has a 97mph fastball.

yeah, same here. Pretty neat.... Held that loss real well.

Great win!

During the game I had the impression that Baltimore was the smarter team but Toronto was the better team.  Anyone else get that impression?

I understood what Tabler was saying as "Brach's job is to hold the score right there". It wasn't a great insight- sometimes it is better to say nothing.

Three Blue Jays have really struggled against Gallardo-Barney, Bautista and Smoak. Smoak is 0-8 with 6 strikeouts. Might be a good time for a day off.

That was a pretty miserable play by Martin, compounding his mental error in not covering third off contact with a physical error on the catch.

That would not have mattered had Estrada covered home plate. Estrada missed spring training with a sore back and wasn't sure what he's supposed to be doing defensively on the shift with runners on base. Just one more reason not to shift all the time.

It was also nice of Kim to demonstrate the stupidity of shifting against a leadoff hitter with no power. I'll just take first base. Thank you very much.

Estrada missed spring training with a sore back

Yeah, but he hasn't missed other spring trainings.

Today's lineup has Upton in RF and Bautista at DH, with Travis back at 2B.

This looks like the best lineup the Jays can put on the field based on their current roster.

This looks like the best lineup the Jays can put on the field based on their current roster.

You may well be right, but I guess it comes down to weighing the pro-Smoak and pro-Upton arguments (vs RHP).

When Smoak plays:

• good: better offense than Upton
• good: better defense than Encarnacion
• bad: Bautista's defense worse than Upton's

When Upton plays:

• good: better defense than Bautista
• bad: worse offense than Smoak
• bad: Encarnacion's defense work than Smoak's

I know his stock has dropped a bit, but I'm hoping the Jays will be able to acquire Rich Hill. He seems like the best fit for the Jays (short-term contract, costly in terms of prospects but hopefully not too costly, above-average starter for the stretch run and playoffs).

That is, unless the team can work out a trade for a higher-end controllable starter -- Quintana would be my preferred choice in that category.

I'm undecided about Hellickson. He could be a useful addition, but probably wouldn't move the needle much, especially in the playoffs.

"When Smoak plays:

good: better offense than Upton
good: better defense than Encarnacion"

but i'm not sure either of those are true.

I'd rather barney plays for smoak instead of travis.

Barney has been a terrific bench player. He has hit better than at any time in his career. And he has proven me wrong by playing admirably at his off-positions, SS and 3B. I had once thought that because of his glove, Goins could not be replaced by anyone currently in the organization. Barney has done just that.

Still, over the past two months he has started hitting more in keeping with his career norms. Whether this signals a return to form, or is just a glitch for a player who has truly improved offensively, I don't pretend to know.

I do worry that Gibbons has grown overly fond of Barney when I see Travis getting squeezed out of playing time. I believe that the previous Lake/Smoak platoon, that sometimes morphed into a Barney/Smoak platoon will now be an Upton/Smoak platoon, so this will cause Barney to lose at-bats.

I am hoping that Barney's role will return to be spelling the starters at 3B/SS/2B. I don't think his bat needs to be wedged into the lineup.

I do think that using a glove like Barney's at 1B could be a nice bit of revolutionary thinking, though, if he can stay near this level offensively.

but i'm not sure either of those are true.

I believe they are both true, but not drastically so. Upton's speed helps cut into the OPS points he concedes to Smoak (vs RHP). Defensively, the numbers favour Smoak over EE, and this accords with my subjective opinion as well. But I don't see Smoak as a defensive whiz. I think EE sometimes surprises with defensive plays that we don't expect him to make, but that shouldn't translate into him being deemed good.

Upton's improvement defensively over Bautista may well be enough to tip the scales in his favour. I certainly accept that as a possibility.

It will be interesting to see how Gibbons assesses this moving forward. I do know that Smoak is not making a bold statement that he deserves to be a starter. I think there will be mixing and matching for the balance of the season, with Smoak/Upton in a job share vs RHP.

I do think that using a glove like Barney's at 1B could be a nice bit of revolutionary thinking, though, if he can stay near this level offensively

One skill that can't be argued is Smoak's ability to be tall. He's got to have a good half-foot on Barney with the correspondingly longer reach that such a height difference confers.

And what is Barney's offensive level? His career 641? His 714 for this season? The 775 from the first 2 months of the season? The 650 from the most recent 2 months?

the numbers favour Smoak over EE

Not the numbers at FG this year. Smoak is worse by both DRS and UZR. Even last year, DRS favoured Smoak, but not UZR.

Not the numbers at FG this year.

Yes, you're right! I hadn't noticed how dramatically EE's UZR has improved over the years.

So a further strike against Smoak (and me, for missing that).

So does management see the recently extended Smoak and the newly acquired Upton as holding much of their value in their plan B'ness, to serve as low cost replacements should some or all of Saunders, Bautista and Encarnacion leave?

The difference in defensive value between Upton and Bautista/Saunders is much greater than any difference (if one even exists) between Smoak and Edwin. I think Smoak has a reputation of being a good defensive 1B, but other than 2015, he's never rated particularly well defensively. Edwin's not great, but probably better than his reputation there.

To me, the only reason to avoid Edwin at 1B full-time is if it affects his health. Otherwise, the best lineup has Upton in the OF, one of Bautista/Saunders at DH, and Smoak on the bench.

Worth noting that Edwin has a pronounced history of hitting much better when he's a DH.

I guess Bautista at 1b is the under-explored option.

I'd like to explore Travis batting higher in the order.

"One skill that can't be argued is Smoak's ability to be tall. He's got to have a good half-foot on Barney with the correspondingly longer reach that such a height difference confers.
And what is Barney's offensive level? His career 641? His 714 for this season? The 775 from the first 2 months of the season? The 650 from the most recent 2 months?"

yeah you're right. i always forget about the height thing at 1b at it's probably crucial.

and yeah barney would have to keep up at this year's level which is probably unrealistic.

Buck and Pat (and Zaun) still haven't quite come to terms with the fact that Travis has legit pop in his bat. They all still think he's a slap hitter. Maybe gibby thinks that too.

But the really impressive part of that at bat was taking two nasty nasty strikeout pitches for balls 2 and 3 with 2 strikes. That set up the grooveball for the HR.

It's hard to remind yourself that he's just a kid.....the guy does everything like a seasoned vet.

Travis has basically played at All-Star level in 2015-16. He's actually the second best player on the club right now. 

Upton's swing is still as long and loopy as ever.

Happ is pretty much the steal of the offseason. I'm wrong all the time but i'm not sure i've ever been wronger.

It's hard to remind yourself that he's just a kid.....the guy does everything like a seasoned vet.

Fouling off eight pitches in a row in extra innings is a remarkable at bat even for a veteran.

The Jays have struggled at second for a long time, now they have two good ones plus a defensive specialist. Funny how things come in runs at times.

but i'm not sure i've ever been wronger

The day is young. Don't give up!

Speaking of wrong, how do you think the Orioles feel about their commitment to Chris Davis (23M per year for 7 years, starting with 2016). He has had two excellent seasons in his career (6.8 and 5.4 WAR, averaging BR and FG), but the rest of the time he's been merely okayish. His OBP/SLG this year are 336/457; the AL average is 322/424. He is being out-OPS'd on his own team by a second baseman and by the LF they tried to send to the minors.

Speaking of their second baseman, Tabler -- yes, I'm picking on him again -- praised Schoop for his control of the strike zone, not dissuaded by an 83/13 K/BB ratio.

Happ is pretty much the steal of the offseason. I'm wrong all the time but i'm not sure i've ever been wronger.

You're not the only one. And Bruce - who the FO tried to trade for- is leading the NL in RBIs. These guys do seem to know what they're doing, but the Sanchez decision will be interesting to watch, especially if they do get a starter at the deadline.

yeah that was always the thing about Davis - he only had 2 impressive years, and they weren't consecutive. That being said I don't think $23m is a killer and he actually does provide great 1B defense which makes him worth the contract even now when his hitting is just good and not great. And I'm sure he has a few great years with the bat left in him.

"Worth noting that Edwin has a pronounced history of hitting much better when he's a DH"

Starting in 2012, when he no longer played any significant time at 3B, Encarnacion has actually hit better when playing 1B than when DH'ing. The BA and OBP are very close, but he has hit a lot more HR's when playing 1B. From 2012 to 2016, he has hit 85 HR's in 1,222 AB's as a DH, and 128 HR's in 1,176 AB's when playing 1B.

Worth noting that Edwin has a pronounced history of hitting much better when he's a DH.

Except in even-numbered years! This year, as in 2014, he's hit better when playing first base.

Ah, crushing one's enemies. I hear the lamentations of their women.

Intrigued me enough to look....

EE's Jays' career:

1B 1460pa, 146wrc+, 4.1fwar/650
DH 1736pa, 143wrc+, 3.9fwar/650

So surprisingly identical offense, and good enough defense at 1B to be slightly more valuable than as a DH.

"Don't worry about [Cecil's] numbers, that was before he went on the Disabled List"

Before he went on the DL: 0-5, 5.23
Since coming back: 0-1, 7.04

Buck must be back from holiday's... hmmmmm or maybe he's mostly still on holiday's.

So surprisingly identical offense, and good enough defense at 1B to be slightly more valuable than as a DH.

Whoops -- I was referring to the old data with EE on third and I think his first time around switching to first.  I guess he got over it.  Thanks for the update/correction.

I'd like to explore Travis batting higher in the order.

They're too comfortable with the current lineup to tinkle that much. By hitting 9th, Travis is getting ready to replace Bautista at the top next year.

We're in first place! Keep your feet on the gas, boys!

Happ is pretty much the steal of the offseason. I'm wrong all the time but i'm not sure i've ever been wronger.

Same here. The numbers suggested to me that Happ's improvements were just the benefits of facing weaker teams.

Starting with his stint in Pittsburgh, the "new" Happ has now had a season's worth of starts.

32 GS, 2.73 ERA, 21-5, 194 IP, 164 H, 18 HR, 53 BB, 180 SO.

For what it's worth, it should be noted that his FIP this year is not far off his career average. I'll let others rage over the significance of that.

They're too comfortable with the current lineup to tinkle that much.

Whether or not they decide to tinkle or tinker, I'd like to see Travis slot in after Tulowitzki.

Yeah, as if going to the Disabled List improves performance.
I think Benoit put it best, it's always nice to start fresh with a clean slate.

In the current setup, Cecil's role is limited to facing tough lefties.

We are seeing 'Pittsburgh Happ' the last few weeks. The K's are way up (more 4-seamers?) while maintaining solid command. Great to see.

I wasn't sure if it was my imagination or if more and more players are truly profiling the same way these days, with low OBPs and medium/high SLGs. Most of the Oriole offense feels like Adam Jones to me, 315/450. And well they should, since the team is 325/450.

Where are the guys whose primary skills are OBP? Are there fewer of these guys than there used to be? Or am I mistaken, taking guys like Schoop and Odor to be more typical of the modern middle infielder than they really are?

I looked at the average AL offense over the 10 years prior to 2016 and compared that to 2016. It's more similar than I would have thought.

2006-2015: 261/327/414, 4.57 R/G
2016: 258/322/424, 4.54 R/G

So run scoring this year is the same as the average over the prior 10 seasons. The hitting profile has changed slightly, with hitters ceding some on-base for some power. And that got me looking into SLG minus OBP on an annual basis.

2006-2015: SLG-OBP = 87 points
2016: SLG-OBP = 102 points

The 102 point gap in 2016 is the highest of the 11 years I examined. In fact, the gaps from the last 3 years have gone 74, 94, 102. Not sure how much to read into these numbers, but this feels like the game that I am watching. More and more hitters swinging hard, less desirous to get on-base than to mash.

I arbitrarily looked at some SLG-OBP differences from my youth, a more genteel time. In the AL, from 1974 to 1978, the gaps were: 48, 51, 41, 75, 59. None of this should be a surprise to anyone old enough to have lived through the evolution of the game and its players.

In retrospect, I should have gone all Magpie here with data tables and a full analysis of all of MLB, not just the AL, and for the past 40 or 50 years. Even so, I think I'd just end up proving what we already know.

Tip of the cap to the Pirates - a very nice return for 2 months of Mark Melancon - a really well run operation - a pity they don't have a larger payroll. Neftali Feliz is having a nice year in Pittsburgh - I was hoping the Jays would sign him last winter.

Not surprised the Padres are desperately trying to move Matt Kemp - If you can get a Melvin Upton type acquisition cost, I would be very tempted - let's say the Jays pay 5m a year for the next 3 years - there's your DH for the next 3 years.

Buck and Pat (and Zaun) still haven't quite come to terms with the fact that Travis has legit pop in his bat. They all still think he's a slap hitter. Maybe gibby thinks that too.

SLG% 2016

Bautista .441
Tulo .452
Travis .466

I hope that Rich Hill's blister problem allows the Jays to snag him - Jays can afford to wait a couple of weeks on him - maybe DL him for the blister to heal.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Rich Hill. He's pitched like an ace since 2015 (3.6 WAR in 18 starts/95 innings), but he's 36, has virtually no track record, is a free agent at the end of the season, and is now injured (albeit a non serious injury). If the Jays acquired him, it would definitely put them over the top as long as he's healthy, but what will it cost to acquire him? I still don't see this FO trading top prospects, and certainly not for rentals. Beane has been off his rocker with trades over the last few years, so I'm curious to see what he does here.

Absolutely would not touch Rich Hill. Sometimes, blister problems do not go away.

Travis' homer felt like a huge load off everybody's back. After two or three innings I would've bet anything on a 1-0 loss with Happ going the distance. Very nice to break the Gallardo hex before the October, if only as a precautionary measure.

He's a Cardinals kinda hitter, ya know? Uses the whole field, doesn't strike out too much, medium-range power to all fields, happy to adapt to whatever the pitcher's plan is, no glaring weaknesses. It's nice to have another one of those in Toronto. We tend to be longer on Blue Jays kinda hitters. I bet he'll be great in the playoffs.

What was with Baltimore playing the Jays' righty power hitters straight up first time through the lineup, but shifting like crazy in the middle innings with the 1-0 lead? There must be some kind of theory behind it... also, how come Wieters didn't just steal home off Cecil in the 8th when his lead had him 60% of the way home. That would've been pretty amusing. It's not like they were going to come back and win, were they? Sliced bread just passed him for good.

Hopefully the hitting coaches can work with Upton to cut it down some. With his speed, he should sacrifice some power for more contact.

 I guess [Encarnacion] got over it.

Probably, but his work in 2015 was enough to make me believe it all over again. And say so.

As always, he was a much more dangerous hitter as the DH (.301/.397/.595) than when he had to play the field (.239/.329/.486).

Where are the guys whose primary skills are OBP?

In the other league, mostly. I just loaded everyone with 200 ABs into a spreadsheet and sacrificed OBP from Slugging. Five players actually returned a negative number (meaning their OBP was higher than their slugging percentage, just like a guy from 1907.)

Francisco Cervelli, Pgh .361/.295
Ramon Flores, Mil.      .293/.257
Ichiro Suzuki, Mia.     .401/.385
Erick Aybar, Atl.       .283/.272
Kolten Wong, StL.       .329/.321

The top guys in the AL are Cameron Maybin (.397/.401) and Brett Gardner (.347/.353).

You'll notice that most of these guys are below average offensive players. Only Suzuki and Maybin have an OPS better than league average.

In a bit of a coincidence with the O's in town, ex-Orioles pitcher/Jays outfielder Adam Loewen is back in the majors. Dbacks have just added him to their 25 man.

Happ is a dark horse candidate to win the Cy Young this year. His component stats aren't at the top of the heap, but he's tied for the league lead in wins (and now has a powerhouse offense to support him the rest of the way), his overall performance has been very solid, and the recent trend is positive. He has been sensational in July.

It's probably not going to happen, but the fact that it could underscores just how good a signing he has been for the front office.

Gotta love that ESPN MLB's headlines make no mention of the fact that the Jays just bumped the O's out of first place. Instead, they currently focus on breaking news such as "Trout's first car to be sold at collector's auction" and "Giants activate OF Pence from disabled list."

Hopefully the hitting coaches can work with Upton to cut it down some.

As he has gotten older, he has walked less and struck out more. That could well be a sign of ageing since he may be cheating to catch up to fastballs.

His ilk will always be frustrating. He has survived, seemingly, on athleticism alone. Where is the superstar his age 22 and 23 seasons augured?

Upton has actually had a pretty good career (25.2 fWAR so far), and he has done a good job of rebounding from his disastrous 2013 and 2014 with the Braves. And we still don't know how the rest of his career is going to play out. I would argue that we don't yet know what his "ilk" is.

I would argue that we don't yet know what his "ilk" is.

The "ilk" of which I speak is the type of player who seemed like he could have been great, but was merely good. He looked like he could be a true superstar with speed, power, the ability to draw walks and to play a mean center field. I'm disappointed that he didn't turn into that superstar.

I am disappointed from a selfish fan's perspective. Upton has nothing to be ashamed about. He's had a fine career and has made lots of loot.

Here is how Upton's age 22 BBRef comps did over their careers.

Uh-Oh, (The O's) Come to Town

When you got love, you got nothing.

In the schadenfreude department.

Pomeranz charged with 5 ER, BoSox lose to the Angels putting them 2 full games back of us. Fun fact - even with Porcello having a very good year (14-2, 3.47 ERA) and David Price, they have won all of 2 games this year when they've scored less than 4 runs.

ARod - 4 PA's - 4 K's, now has a wRC+ of 60. Of 244 players with 220 PA's that puts him around 229th. And he's not even the worst Yankee; Texiera has a 59 wRC+, but the worst Yankee and 243 of 244 is Aaron Hicks 43 wRC+.

And 244 0f 244? Yan Gomes 30 wRC+ gave Cleveland 262 PA's of Thole level production before he mercifully separated his shoulder.

Pomeranz has to make the hard adjustment to the AL. Goes to show you might as well go broke and trade for Sale.

Arod and Texiera are old. There must be some sort of story behind Gomes and his numbers.

At any rate, Cleveland is rumoured to be getting Lucroy for a pack of prospects, so that's probably it for Gomes this year.

Ah, the ubiquitous BRef comps. I remember when they were being used on this site to predict that Lawrie was about to have a 9 WAR season and that Sanchez had a 5% chance of becoming a frontline starter. If only individuals would stop being so obstinate and start complying with their statistical destinies.

Obi-Wan Kenobi - " Luke, you have a 100% chance to be a successful Jedi knight. It is your statistical destiny."

Ah, the ubiquitous scouting reports. I remember when they were being used on this site to predict that Snider was about to be an elite hitter and that Syndergaard was destined to be a reliever. If only individuals would stop being so obstinate and start complying with their scouting destinies.

In the schadenfreude department.

Also, let's not forget the Mets seemed hopeful to unload d'Arnaud+ for Lucroy. d'Arnaud is mired in a negative WAR season. 

I did notice that Dustin McGowan on the other hand seems to be pulling his weight as a reliever with Miami. Nothing spectucular but good to see him back on the horse.

Cashman is playing this trade deadline perfectly. And good for the Indians for going for it in 2016-17 (assuming both the NYY and Milwaukee trades go through).

Arod and Texiera are old.

Old and bad, which is the real problem. David Ortiz is old. Carlos Beltran is old. You don't mind so much with those guys.

There must be some sort of story behind Gomes and his numbers.

I think a good deal of it is just random BABiP luck. In his two good years, Gomes posted BABiPs of .342 and .326, which seems extremely flukey to me - the guy is a RH hitting catcher, after all. And this year his BABiP is .190, which is luck of the other kind.

I agree, Cashman has come up aces - I like the Yankees haul for Miller better than what the Jays got for Halladay and the Jays also sent 6M to the Phillies - Sad.

Good for Cleveland - I guess that the ownership/FO do not want to see shapkins standing there with the world series trophy held aloft.

Is Shapiro gonna call Chernoff and start scolding him?

Cashman is having quite a trade deadline. Miller and Chapman are both elite out of the pen, but the Yankees got a great haul for two relievers. They will have a lot of money coming off their books this season and next season, right in time for the big off-season of 2018 (Harper, Donaldson, Machado, Fernandez, and a whole bunch of others as free agents), and in the mean time they are stocking up prospects in the system by trading superfluous vets (for them) that are at the peak of their value. Given the age of their roster and their outlook in 2016 and 2017, this was the best route for them to take.

Apparently the Lucroy trade isn't official and this Miller trade might indicate that it has fallen apart. Adding Miller alone is still an upgrade, but Lucroy+Miller is the real difference maker. Regardless, the Indians roster looks very good right now. Lindor, Kipnis, Naquin, Ramirez, Santana, and Brantley in their lineup, their starting rotation (no explanation needed), Allen/Miller in the pen. They'll be tough even without Lucroy (if that deals falls apart).

"Is Shapiro gonna call Chernoff and start scolding him?

Well played sir.

Miller and Halladay are completely different scenarios.
1 player the league knows wants to go and will only consider a few teams vs an inflated reliever market with one of the top 3-4 in the position.

ESPN has now an article entitled "How the Blue Jays got to the top of the AL East" but lines like "The 2-3-4 hitters which are normally Encarnation, Michael Saunders and Tulowitzki" have me scratching my head.

It also says that Estrada and Pillar are free agents in the off-season.

The Yankees signed Miller and Chapman as free agents. It's the Marlins formula. Give long (backloaded) contracts to free agents and trade them after a year or two.

This makes moving Osuna to the rotation even more difficult.

Wow - Lucroy has vetoed the Mil-Cle trade.

phew.

must have been demanding the club option not be picked up.

yanks traded for chapman.

Lucroy has vetoed the Mil-Cle trade.

Which doesn't mean it's completely dead, as Miracle Max might say. Just mostly dead. Lucroy needs to get paid. He's 30 years old, seriously underpaid in terms of what he brings to the table, and his contract has a team option for next year. All he's got to work with is the no-trade clause that he negotiated - and those clauses are regularly negotiated in exchange for taking less money. He's not going to waive it for nothing. Why would he? Why would anyone? Being traded, especially in mid-season, is an enormous pain in the ass. He's got to get something out of it.

Cleveland, in a seven-game series, is now a favorite against everyone else in the majors. Hot take?

I understand the Yankees' desire to amass prospect capital for 2019, but I feel for the poor Knicks fans who have to sit through the next two years. I figured they could compete with pitching and defense instead of ceding the division to Boston. Is there a fire sale forthcoming? Sure it looks like a great free agent class after 2018, but if everyone's timing their success cycle at once it may well turn out to be a seller's market nonetheless. Who'll be the Amar'e Stoudemire in that group?

I wonder whether Dombrowski will swoop in and pick up Lucroy. I had actually been wondering whether the Jays might make a play for him. If we didn't have so many DHs already, it could almost make sense. We would have productive and healthy catching 162 games a year (and through the playoffs) this year and next, with the overflow going to DH ABs. I know it would never happen in the real world...

Jeff Passan tweeted that Lucroy wanted the Indians to rip up his 2017 team option in order for him to agree to waive his NTC, while Nightengale is saying that he rejected the deal because he did not want to risk losing playing time in 2017. Considering the 2017 option is for $5.2M, and the Indians may have DH'ed him a bit in 2017 with Gomes also on the roster, I'm guessing his reasoning for rejecting the deal is probably a combination of both.

Which doesn't mean it's completely dead

10:35am: Brewers GM David Stearns tells reporters that Lucroy talks with the Indians are “totally dead” (Twitter link via MLB.com’s Adam McCalvy), while Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer tweets that the Indians are no longer negotiating with Lucroy.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/07/jonathan-luroy-no-trade-indians-brewers.html

"ceding the division to Boston"

to Toronto, you mean?

"Jeff Passan tweeted that Lucroy wanted the Indians to rip up his 2017 team option in order for him to agree to waive his NTC"

yep.

According to Rosenthal and Susan Slusser, the Jays are showing serious interest in both Rich Hill and Josh Reddick, with Slusser saying the Jays have had scouts watching them at every A's series for a month.

Hill would make sense with Sanchez's role in question and Estrada's back not being 100%. I wouldn't give up much for him though given some of the red flags I mentioned earlier (age, lack of track record, impending FA).

This makes moving Osuna to the rotation even more difficult.


No sense moving him to rotation if he does not want it.

I think the whole 2018 free agent class thing is overblown. Cashman is simply stockpiling young talent (a lot of it) in order to rebuild. Down the road, there will be various ways to add veteran talent to augment the roster (for example, look at how the Jays have acquired their stars). I doubt the Yankees' GM is counting on reeling in Machado or Harper a few years from now.

Agree with scottt about Osuna. But this FO has been very good at most of their moves.
Thanks Magpie for explaining the thinking behind Lucroy's veto, it makes sense.
Does anyone think that it is obvious ..... that for Mil to get a good haul of prospects for Lucroy, his new team has to sign him to a nice big contract. As a FA 2017 traded in mid season he is not even worth a draft pick.
As scottt said about the Marlin's formula, it also applies to the Martin and Tulo contracts.

Trade deadlines and off seasons sure can be exciting.

The Reddick thing is interesting.  Is it a rumor that predated the Upton trade, or are the Jays still interested in him?   If they are, I suppose they could use Upton as the 4th outfielder (or platoon vs LHP), drop Carrera from the roster, and have Saunders and Bautista rotating through the DH slot, with Edwin at 1B and Smoak relegated to the bench. Reddick reportedly wants a $60m 4-year extension, which is obviously a lot more affordable than Bautista, so it would probably be a long-term move too.

As for Hill:  he'd be a great acquisition if his blister heals quickly.  But what would be the cost in prospects?  I don't think Atkins and Shapiro are necessarily unwilling to use some of their prospect capital if the right deal comes along.

wouldn't the price of SP make it even more urgent to start Osuna?

If the Yankees have given up on the season, Carlos Beltran could be an interesting rental.  Similar to the scenario that I outlined above:  Upton becomes the 4th outfielder, Carrera is dropped, Edwin becomes 1B, Smoak goes to the bench, and the DH/RF/LF would be a rotating cast of Saunders, Bautista and Beltran.

The second wild card has allowed more teams to be in the race which means fewer sellers which has driven up the price on everything. IMO, The worst thing mediocre teams do is nothing. i.e. teams like the the White Sox who have very little chance of making the playoffs and don't have a good long-term outlook could rebuild their entire squad/farm system with a couple of trades. Instead, they'll probably do what they always do and stay mediocre. Yankees are over .500 but realize that they don't have a great chance at the playoffs and would rather load up on prospects. They made their long-term future a lot better.

A tweet from LaTroy Hawkins, who would certainly know:

The Trade Rumors an Deadline is so much more Enjoyable whn your name isn't in it #RetiredBigLeaguer @MLBonTuneIn @MLBNetwork #LH32 #NoStress

No, the price of starting pitching makes it much smarter to develop your own and not trade them prematurely.

develop your own like Osuna?

greenfrog when you say "just look at how the Jays acquired their stars". I am not arguing but I see at least 5 ways.

1) Draft...Sanchez, Osuna.
2) Sign or trade for low valued players like Bautista and EE. Both blossomed wit the Jays. Not Y Escobar and C Rasmus.
3) Donaldson was a heist.
4) Tulo, RA, Buehrle and D Price all have done well to very well and of course there was a cost in prospects.
5) FAs Martin, Estrada and Happ have all worked out quite well IMO. I like our young pitchers breaking in with Martin.

Hill has been "David Price 2015 2nd half" good since last season. Even for two months he could realistically add a win or more as long as he's healthy. In the end it will come down to how much they are willing to spend on a rental. I'm guessing not that much, but the window is huge right now. The division is there for the taking and you won't have this roster next season. Maybe they might make an exception.

"This roster next season" meaning Jose and Edwin on cheap contracts.

it's a fun idea to look into - how did we get our "stars"?

If we do it in order of just productivity this year:

1. Donaldson - prospects for stud trade
2. Travis - prospect for prospect trade
3. Sanchez - drafted
4. Estrada - meh for meh trade / re-sign as FA
5. Happ - FA signing
6. Saunders - meh for meh trade
7. Pillar - draft
8. Encarnacion - meh for meh trade
9. Tulowitzki - prospects for stud trade
10. Osuna - draft

Peter G & UO. We all know or at least hope that Osuna is not going anywhere.

So we have a nice collection of SPs on our team for 2017 plus Hutch. Also on the farm SRF and Greene who may be ready in 2017. If healthy and if he does well enough then Greene HAS to or more likely gets promoted anyway in Sept. As a 2013 draft pick he has to be protected after 2017 so getting his feet wet in Sept only costs us a 40 man roster spot.

With the prices for Chapman and Miller, the cost of replacing Osuna (a young, elite closer) in the bullpen might be just as high as dealing for an above average starter.

8. Encarnacion - meh for meh trade

I agree with the rest of your list uglyone, but I have a quibble with the Encarnacion acquisition.

Rolen was a great player as a Jay and had a great year in 2010 for Cincy after. bWAR has Rolen listed at 5.2 WAR in only 128 games in 2009 when Rolen asked for a trade. Hardly meh

The Jays are actually really lucky that Encarnacion eventually developed into a superstar because he was basically an unwanted salary dump in the Rolen trade. The Jays almost got left empty in the musical chairs of trades going from Hudson-Glaus-Rolen-Encarnacion. And Zach Stewart and Josh Roenicke that came from Cincy were definitely a meh prospect return

yeah to be honest I was ad libbing there as I always get a bit confused as to the order of that 3rd base meery go round with koskie glaus rolen EE. But i don't think any of the trades there involved guys being traded at top value. All were iffy assets at the time iirc.

I am taken with how much Buck Showalter resembles Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

Strictly speaking, Oakland claimed Encarnacion on waivers from Toronto. The Jays later signed him as a free agent.

Please don't go back and look at the thread, it's mostly me saying that Alex Gordon will never amount to anything...

6. Saunders - meh for meh trade

Or two studs that were about to have breakthrough seasons.
Toronto looks pretty good on that one.

Encarnation is looking good enough at first to warrant offers from the NL in the off season.
He can always get traded away later if his fielding is not up to par.

I don't see Glaus as an iffy asset. He had 2 bad years with the Angels than rebounded in Arizona and Batista + Hudson was a fair price.

Countdown to O'Day vs. Bautista.

Looking like a one-run game may be likely.

Atkins has done a pretty good job cheaply patching up the cracks in our bullpen.

To add to the earlier ESPN comments, had a chuckle as the Tigers just swept the Astros, shortly after a piece entitled "How the Astros have recovered to become the best team in the AL"

Second lefty may be a crack yet to patch.

So not another one-run loss then.

At least not another one-run loss. Time to DFA Chavez?

And of course as soon as I make the bullpen comment.

kinda nice for chavez and morales to remind the FO that trade deadline inaction isn't a good idea.

Chavez isn't proving to be much of a RP, and he really never has in his career. If he's not going to be used as a SP, where he has at least been decent in 2014-15, then he's not much value to this team outside of a bad situation where 2 rotation options get hurt/miss time and they need an emergency fill-in.

If the Jays acquire a SP in the next 24 hours, then Chavez is not required to be on this team.

Bringing up Barnes could also be considered. Loup is a better option than Morales.

given the SP trade market maybe there's a team that might like chavez as an SP possibility.

Chavez's big weakness is the longball. At the very least, you could bring him in with the bases empty. I have no doubt that he's a major-league pitcher, used properly. Maybe even as a starter.

tulo fractured finger

tulo fractured finger

He's like a ticking Bob Horner time bomb.

quote "small little chip fracture", may or may not need DL.

Quick search says 2-6 weeks. Maybe he got lucky but it seems this will require wearing a splint. Bound to mess up your swing.

Just by the way it looked I'd be surprised if Tulo is not put on the DL.

http://livehealthy.chron.com/finger-bone-chip-fracture-after-hyperextension-1213.html

Unless he got really lucky I don't see how he avoids a 15 day DL trip for the initial splinting, I guess the Jays did well last year when he was injured, but this doesn't seem like a back in two days thing. Hope I'm wrong though.

It would be extremely annoying if the Orioles were to win the division because one of their pitchers hit Tulowitzki. There obviously was no intent, but argh.

Apparently, the thumb swelled up significantly. I expect he'll need a DL stint. At least Goins has started hitting better - he's hitting .458 over his last 7 games. Barnes can help this team right now, if they want to bite the bullet and drop somebody. He had yet another 1-2-3 inning today. They need a 40-man roster spot as well as the 25-man spot for him. Barnes is getting ridiculous - last 9 innings - 1 hit, no walks, 13 strikeouts.

I forgot it was thumb, that might make things a bit better.

My link was for a slightly different chip injury. Seems like it could be significantly shorter recovery period. Maybe just a week or two tops I hope.

given the SP trade market maybe there's a team that might like chavez as an SP possibility.

Best that can be said about childishness is it never grows old.

I'm being serious. There are teams with serious holes in their rotation that might take a chance at getting oakland chavez, especially those in pitcher parks.

I guess teams have to think ahead to the future. Whenever that is. This FO values depth IMO. With Barney and Goins our IF is covered for 2017 if we can resign Barney.

China is right in that Chavez is being used in wrong role. The problem so to speak is the position he was brought in for (6th starter) the Jays have been lucky enough not to need. So he's being used as a long man (which he's alright at) and general reliever (which he's awful at). He's certainly a better option than some guys the Jays have used in recent years like Doubront/etc. But right now he's just not needed.

I would say replacing Morales with a competent lefty is much more a priority than replacing Chavez. And Loup being better than Morales is not saying much.

take a chance at getting Oakland Chavez

Especially if you could actually have him pitch in Oakland's ballpark, where he's got a 3.39 ERA in 175.1 IP. In the rest of the world, he's put up a 5.07 ERA.

Or maybe it's just being a Blue Jay. He's now given up - gulp - 15 HRs in 62.1 as a Jay. That 2.17 HRs per 9 IP. Which is beyond bad. Working for other teams, he's allowed 65 HRs in 516.1 IP or 1.13 per 9.

If Tulowitzki can't play through this, what do you do? All the position players on the active roster are out of options, except Thole. And you kind of need need to keep a second catcher around.

So all you can do is hope that Carrera clears waivers.

China is right in that Chavez is being used in wrong role.

It may be true that Chavez is generally being poorly used, but today Gibbons was hamstrung by having lost his DH. He was trying to make it through to his last pinch hit opportunity with Morales, before going long with Chavez. Today, losing the DH position and being restricted in options was not a matter of choice.

the anger in the voices of the red sox commentators at the team and at Farrell is palpable.

One could argue that Shapiro and Atkins have been very astute in acquiring relievers for the set-up roles (Grilli, Benoit, Floyd before his injury, even Biagini in some games) but they haven't been as good in settling the 6th and 7th slots in the bullpen.   Of course, to be fair, those are often the unsettled spots in any bullpen, often filled by a rotating cast. But arguably the front-office can be criticized for going 4 months into the season and still having nobody better than Morales and Chavez for the 6th and 7th positions.  It doesn't matter in mop-up situations, but it matters in extra-inning games, and in other occasions when those two are pressed into service in high-leverage situations.  Especially if Chavez was mainly intended as rotation insurance, which is probably not needed now.  If he is rotation insurance, he shouldn't end up in key high-leverage positions, yet he does.  And he has allowed 48.3 per cent of his inherited runners to score -- an appalling number.  Yet as long as he remains in the bullpen, he will still sometimes end up in high-leverage situations.

As for the Morales position in the bullpen, the Jays have tried everyone:  Loup, Tepera, Girodo, Venditte.  Yet none of them has been good enough to secure the position. Similarly for the final RHP position there is Bo Schultz who has good numbers and seems to have good stuff, yet still needs to develop his secondary pitches.  So it's really been a mess in the 6th and 7th positions. Not all of this can be blamed on the trickle-down effect from the Floyd injury and Storen implosion.

they're much happier now. :(

"....China is right in that Chavez is being used in wrong role...."

To be accurate I believe it was SK who initially made this point in this thread.

Huston Street? More like Easy Street.

Unless he's near 100% tomorrow, Tulo almost certainly goes to the DL, with Goins taking his spot... as much as it hurts to lose him for 15 days, we have a competent replacements (Barney & Goins) whose value will be similar (or maybe better) than Tulo playing with in injured hand. It sucks - but with our depth it's not a catastrophe...

Barry Davis is reporting that Franklin Morales is off the roster and will not be with the team in Houston. DFA is the most likely outcome. Will he be replaced by a trade or a promotion?

Barry Davis is reporting that Franklin Morales is off the roster and will not be with the team in Houston. DFA is the most likely outcome. Will he be replaced by a trade or a promotion?

Sounds like a trade. Is there a reason with a game tomorrow to hide a promotion?

Someone can explain why Zaun was ranting about clubhouse fees?

I do not listen to a word that Zaun says but I'm assuming he's talking about this story.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/texas-rangers/rangers/2016/07/30/seattles-new-policy-concerning-clubhouse-dues-irked-rangers-teams

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/white-sox-players-recently-protested-mariners-clubhouse-dues-policy-2-072416

@Joelsherman1
Oft-repeated sentiment today: #bluejays will add P to protect for Sanchez move to pen. Said to be motivated to find an arm.

"....Sounds like a trade. Is there a reason with a game tomorrow to hide a promotion?...."

Actually the Morales DFA may have just been an urgent way to get Ryan Goins onto the roster to replace Tulowitzki tonight.  Goins has joined the team in Houston already, according to tweets that I'm seeing.  The Jays were probably going to drop Morales within a day or two anyway, but they needed to get a shortstop onto the roster immediately, so why wait?

If the Jays trade for a pitcher later today, or promote a reliever, they can put Tulo on the DL at that point, but the swift DFA of Morales last night allowed them to bring up Goins right away.  They didn't want to wait for a trade or DL decision when they obviously needed Goins immediately.

Just to finish the thought about Goins:  he might not be the starting SS tonight, since Barney can step in, but the Jays definitely needed a back-up infielder on the roster.  Otherwise they have no back-up option if there's an injury or a pinch-hitting situation.

Goins is not officially activated yet, but I would anticipate it, unless Tulo has made a miraculous recovery.  Even if the injury was less serious than expected, and if he avoids the DL, the Jays still need a back-up infielder until Tulo is fully ready.

Upton would be the emergency shortstop, I guess.

It would have to be a pretty dire emergency.  Upton hasn't played an inning at SS since 2004.  Even if we include the somewhat easier roles of 2B or 3B, he hasn't played a game in the infield since 2007.

Complete list of righthanded arms on the 24-man roster: Martin, Thole, Donaldson, Travis, Encarnacion, Bautista, Pillar, Upton, Benoit, Biagini, Chavez, Dickey, Estrada, Grilli, Osuna, Sanchez, Stroman. I guess you could kick Travis to short and have one of the others play second...

The Dodgers have reportedly landed Hill and Reddick from Oakland.  So if the Jays want a starting pitcher, they'll have to look elsewhere.  A reliever should be a lot easier to acquire.  Three hours remaining to the trade deadline.

Dang. I thought Hill would have been a perfect fit for the Jays. I guess the price was too high, or it made more sense to deal Hill/Reddick as a package to the Dodgers.

I'm less enthused about some of the other names being batted about (Santana, Hellickson).

What's the cost of Puig for the Jays? Nice replacement for Bautista next year. Connor Greene maybe? Plus Drew Hutchison?

I wonder if Anthopoulos was involved in the negotiations that brought Hill and Reddick to the Dodgers today.  He has some experience at trade-deadline wheeling and dealing.....  Especially when a team is trading prospects for veterans....

Actually the Morales DFA may have just been an urgent way to get Ryan Goins onto the roster to replace Tulowitzki tonight. Goins has joined the team in Houston already, according to tweets that I'm seeing.

Sounds like you're right on that.

It's going to be real interesting to see what Shapkins does now that Hill is off the market. They've made some shrewd moves, securing decent value for minimal in return, but are obviously very reluctant to go where the Dodgers, Mets (Bruce), Marlins (Cashner) et. all have taken the market. There are some really nice prospects being exchanged for these players - doesn't seem to jive with the new Jay way.

Personally, I would rather pitch Sanchez every 10 days and keep him in the rotation and primed for a playoff series rather than punt him to the bullpen. Wilner likes to say there's a "preponderance of evidence" suggesting a large jump in IP from one season to the next can lead to injury, but there is still nothing definitive on the subject and I believe every situation and player is different.

Sending Sanchez to the BP is already a middle-road, I'd rather they come up with something else creative that keeps him a starter.

What are the chances the Jays don't acquire a Starting Pitcher - 75%? The more familiar refrain of we didn't like the cost - 100%?

some rumblings about hutch involved in santana talks. which i actually don't mind.

someone mentioned Harris too - and i'll say it again imo harris i a good sell high candidate.

I would keep Sanchez in the rotation but limit him to 5 innings per start

Reds balking at medicals of 1 of the prospects in Jay Bruce deal - Deja vu with the 3 way Saunders/Bruce deal - are the Reds the new Orioles with medicals or do they just get cold feet.

Marlins apparently returning injured Colin Rea to Padres - I wonder if Gord Ash knows you can do that.

Twitter says Santana to the Jays is done, pending medicals. No word on what's going through other way.

And others are saying that the source of the Santana Rumour isn't very reliable. Sorry...

What would be really great though would be if "Shapkins" keeps continuing to do in real life what Anthopoulos spent his entire job interview talking about, while failing to actually accomplish, for close to half his tenure in the only MLB GM position for which he'll ever be hired.

And others are saying that the source of the Santana Rumour isn't very reliable. Sorry...

At least you weren't deceived by fake twitter accounts like I was on the Chris Sale 'trade' to the Red Sox, before I reproduced their nonsense here.

Beltran is reportedly en route to Texas, a team in need of a DH. Seems like an obvious fit.

If Tate has that kind of value than Harris must have some too.

and let the yankees be proof that signing big money free agent contracts only helps rebuilds.

For those who know about farm systems, how much did the Rangers give up? Could we have given something equivalent without too much trouble?

To me, Bautista DH, EE at 1st, Beltran in the outfield, and 2 of Saunders/Pillar/Upton platooning/trading off would be insane.. Plus good insurance in case Bautista's toe isn't great yet. Forget about more pitching - add another couple of killer bats and bludgeon the opposition into submission.. But, with Tulo hurt, I guess we can't easily carry another position player..

Uglyone, that's sometimes true, but other times the player simply becomes an albatross (BJ Ryan, for example).

Dillon Tate, pre-2016 ranked 69th by Baseball America, ranked 36th by MLB, ranked 59th by Baseball Prospectus.

Jon Harris, pre-2016 ranked... nowhere in anyone's top-100.

That seems like a fair comparison?

Tate was drafted 4th overall last year but has been bad ever since, and his stuff isn't what was promised.

We could quite easily have matched that.

Didn't say that he had as much value as Tate, just that he should have (quote) "some value", as Tate seems to have maintained most of his his despite sucking since the draft.

By "we", you're talking about being part of the group of professionals who earn a living evaluating baseball prospects?

Oh great now I'm gonna be lectured about the proper pronoun to use to refer to my sports teams.

Actually it was more of a comment on how I don't get how someone as smart at baseball analysis has so much free time to make these kinds of crazy statements.

But also, yes. Do you work in the Jays' front office? If not, they're not "your" team. They're the professional sports team you follow that you are not in any way affiliated with. Do you even buy tickets to games?

what crazy statement? the one where you failed to read the words I posted?

The one where Prospect X is ranked in the top-100 by professional evaluators, but Prospect Y who isn't in anyone's top-100 also has (quote) "some value".

Do you actually read what YOU post? You're like the Peter Griffin of baseball analysis - hilarious in a way that makes everyone feel they're not as dumb as you, but not providing any actual value.

I believe lifelong fans who pay the money have much more right to use the pronoun "we" to refer to their sports team than temporary mercenary employees. It's our team. Without the fans, there is no team. Employees are replaceable.

Hey, all I was asking was how much you actually contribute to "your" team.

So we have a 10% chance of Santana being acquired; a 10% chance of Hellickson; a 10% chance of someone not mentioned (Tampa?); or, a 70% chance of an excuse for not meeting the price.

Finally, someone whose posts make uglyone look like he know what he's talking about.

Knows, I mean. My apologies.

Jon Harris was a well respected prospect deservedly drafted in the first round last year. Most observers thought he fell too far. He has been ranked alongside the likes of greene and reid-foley in every team prospect ranking since, and both of them have made top 100 lists. He has not been a top 100 ranked prospect, but has not been far off. He has been a dissappointment since being drafted.

Dillon Tate was an even more well respected prospect who was drafted 4th overall last year, but was considered a bit of an overdraft by most. A better prospect than Harris, ranked in the back end of most top 100s. He has been even more disappointing than Harris since the draft. In fact he is the same age, at the same level, and doing legit awful, while Harris has actually been quite good albeit much too old for the level.

Nevertheless, Tate had enough value still to be traded one-up for one of the best bat rentals at the deadline.

For me, this is encouraging, as it means a guy like Harris, while not being able to command that kind of return alone, might still have some real trade value.

Good ol' Dunning-Kruger.

I understand you're quite upset that that our kids have been as good as I said they would be, Parker, and much better than you were told. As long as lashing out makes you feel better about it, have at it. I can take it.

scott feldman

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/08/astros-trade-scott-feldman-blue-jays.html

Jays get Feldman from Astros, trade Chavez to Dodgers

The Jays have acquired Scott Feldman, and traded Chavez to the Dodgers for Mike Bolsinger, per Twitter.

ooh I like feldman. please be cheap.

ugly, you used to compare Stroman favorably to the best pitchers in all of baseball. You don't do that any more. Why not?

and I wouldn't be surprised if the dodgers are hoping chavez might start for them. at least as insurance.

Feldman seems like a big upgrade over Chavez in the bullpen, and can be rotation insurance in an emergency.

The Jays really needed to do something about Chavez.  Replacing him with Feldman is a good move.

Parker, even in this "down" year, Stro still ranks 17th in the AL in fwar. His xfip is even more impressive. I have no doubt the kid is still a stud.

But yes, he's not having as good a year as the top guys this year, much like price and gray and archer.

Looks like they're clearing out all the Chavez's, Guadalupe goes for Feldman.

Guadalupe Chavez going to Astros in the Feldman deal. Apparently it's a real name.

Feldman was reportedly obtained for Guadalupe Chavez.   A reasonable price. Seems to rank around 15 to 20 on some Jays prospect lists.

My question:  why did Houston trade him away, in the midst of a wild-card race?  Do they really have such a surplus of pitchers?   Or have they given up on the wild card, which seems unlikely?

I like the Chavez trade. Bolsinger can start or pitch out of the pen, and has five (?) of control after this season. Solid peripherals, too. It's basically trading two months of Chavez for a younger, cheaper, and potentially better version of Chavez.

Will have to wait on the return for Feldman.

Can't complain about that price. I liked guadelupe a tick more than hansel, though.

Feldman (33) Last 2yrs

As SP: 23gs, 5.8ip/gs, 95era-, 107fip-, 105xfip-, 2.0war/32
As RP: 21gs, 37.0ip, 57era-, 89fip-, 85xfip-, 1.0war/65

Obviously I like him much better as an RP.

Which gives me hope that they'll stick with Sanchez in the rotation.


But I can't help but be dissappointed this deadline. Just depth value moves while our competition made impact moves.

So the organization is now motivated to save on air fare by trading for players in the opposite dugout?

Feldman is walking across to the Jays clubhouse now.  So far, it looks like the Jays can add Feldman and Goins to the roster tonight, in place of Chavez and Morales.   But if they do that, they'll be shorthanded in the bullpen.  Feldman threw 2 innings (and 38 pitches) yesterday, so he'll be unavailable tonight.  So really only 5 pitchers in the bullpen tonight, unless they're hiding someone else who can be added to the roster at the last minute.

Still, this move really strengthens the bullpen.  Feldman has had lots of high-leverage experience this season, and has generally thrived.  And he's capable of going 3 or 4 innings if necessary too.

So the organization is now motivated to save on air fare by trading for players in the opposite dugout?

It's the new market inefficiency :-)

I'm not being snarky, but genuinely asking -- what is the basis for your belief that you have the right to use "we"?

For example, it would sound insane if a life-long fan who pays money for their products said, "We at Apple have a great new phone in the works." about Apple.

I don't really care because I'm so acclimated to people saying it (especially here in Boston) but I forced myself to purge it from my vocabulary because the argument against using it seems so persuasive.

The teams certainly want you to use the term 'we'

Chavez is a fly ball pitcher, not ideal in the RC. Feldman is more neutral, might play better in the RC.

Bolsinger has used his three options, with 2016 being the last one. So while he does have control left, he can't be moved up and down.

Shi Davidi suggested Jesse Chavez was traded to avoid a DFA. In that case any return is beneficial.

Can Feldman start if Sanchez goes to the pen? He would be an option.

ugly spends a minimum of 14 hours a day watching the Jays on cable TV that his mom pays for, and surfing for "facts" on the internet his mom pays for. Based on that, I think he's earned the right to use the pronoun. Assuming his mom work for the Jays, anyhoo.

Also, ugh, Feldman? He's going to get lit up in Skydome.

At least Gibbons won't get to continue misusing Chavez, though.

"Based on that, I think he's earned the right to use the pronoun"

why thank you.

Bolsinger has used his three options, with 2016 being the last one. So while he does have control left, he can't be moved up and down.

Does an option only apply for one team? I.e. if he's used his 3rd option in 2016, can't we still send him down this year? Or would a player traded mid-season use up two options in one year if both teams send him down? Your next point about Chavez/DFA makes it sound like we would have had to DFA Chavez to find a spot for Feldman, but now, instead, we got Bolsinger and can send him down for the rest of this year, and figure it out with him next year..

If you're keeping track, Parker has taken swipes at Gibbons, Anthopoulos, Feldman, Chavez and Uglyone within the past couple hours.  The rest of us might want to duck -- we're next!

Naw dude, you're cool. :)

Davidi just said on sportsnet that he's hearing that the Jays may have one more deal to announce. Wasn't sure and had no details though.

"...if he's used his 3rd option in 2016, can't we still send him down this year?...."

Yes, the Jays can send him down this year.  And they certainly will.  I think he's a project for 2017.

"For example, it would sound insane if a life-long fan who pays money for their products said, "We at Apple have a great new phone in the works." about Apple."

Actually I've met plenty of Apple users who feel very much a part of the Apple community. More than some Apple sales manager or product rep. Even though the product/customer relationship in tech products is a much clearer distinction than the sports fan/franchise relationship which imo is inseperably intertwined.

I get that some fans are uncomfortable with acknowledging that their fandom is much more than just a question of purchasing an entertainment product, but I'm not.

Parker, please stop being so nasty in your comments.  It's depressing. 

To amend my point about Bolsinger:  he's definitely going to Buffalo (that's already been confirmed), but I guess he has a chance to return to the majors in September, or even earlier if he looks good in the Buffalo rotation.  So if the Jays bite the bullet on Sanchez and put him in the bullpen, they would have at least 3 options to replace him in the rotation:  Hutchison, Feldman and Bolsinger.  Probably in that order of likelihood, with Bolsinger being the least likely, but still conceivable if he pitches well in Buffalo.

Ah leave parker alone. I don't mind the attacks.

There's sure a lot of snark in the comments today. It's like reading the comments section on the Toronto Sun site. ( Which I refuse to do any more.)

It's like reading the comments section on the Toronto Sun site.

I don't know if ad hominem attacks are meant to be funny or clever, but they're really quite tedious.

Hey, at least we're not Jays Talk.

I have mixed views on the deadline deals. If Sanchez stays in the rotation then I'm fine with the moves. Given the ongoing BP challenges- more BP losses than any other team - another good arm and one less Chavez is attractive.

On the other hand, if they move Sanchez out of the rotation, none of the replacement options are particularly appealing vs our number 1 starter. It will be interesting to see if the inability to land some more of the better starters on the market impacts the Sanchez decision.

More BP help with Liriano coming to TO for Hutch. Surely Sanchez stays in the rotation now...?

They needed another lefty but seems expensive given his challenges this year

Professional idiot Gregg Zaun managed to find a way to sound like he honestly blames Jonathan Lucroy for nixing the deal to Cleveland based on refusing to waive his $5.25M 2017 option. I mean, how does one of the top five (arguably top three) catchers in all of baseball actually have the audacity to think he's worth $5.25M next year?

What a relief it is that Rogers hires such consummate professionals for their broadcast crew.

This moronic busher finds a way to come off so incredibly stupid and ignorant that he actually makes Matt "Great Job Today by John Gibson's Team" Devlin look like he knows something about baseball.

(you can add Zaun to today's list, CF) ;)

Also, for the record, I don't have any problem with Chavez. If he's deployed correctly he's an asset.

He was NOT deployed correctly, though.

"...He was NOT deployed correctly, though...."

I think that was mostly because Storen and Cecil were so terrible this year.  Biagini was supposed to be the 7th reliever, and Sanchez was in the rotation.  That basically left only Chavez and Floyd as the set-up guys.  Chavez shouldn't have been in that role, but that's not Gibby's fault.  He had to stop using Storen and Cecil in high-leverage situations, and he was stuck with Floyd and Chavez, who were originally supposed to be middle-innings long men.  Gibby was forced to use Floyd and Chavez in late-inning situations.  Floyd did okay, but Chavez did not.  Gibbons didn't have much choice, regardless of how Chavez did, because Storen and Cecil were unavailable for their intended high-leverage roles.

Since I'm already on a rant, I hope you'll allow me to take this opportunity to express my absolute and abject contempt for the entire Blue Jays broadcast team other than Dan Shulman. This is the fourth-biggest market in Major League baseball, but the quality of broadcasting should be considered a disgusting embarrassment to any secondary school with a respectable baseball program.

My hope is that the new regime will be willing to eat whatever dollars remain on the contracts of Tabler, Zaun, Devlin, and Martinez, as well as whatever Commerce BA dropout is responsible for production direction, along with whoever he/she has hired. Give Dan Shulman whatever he asks for to be the full-time PbP guy, and hire someone like Paul Molitor (once the Twins fire him) to be the color guy.

Wow Parker, that was very Aerys Targaryan.

Burn them all!

Burn them all!

I don't think that's fair. I'm not advocating for nuking the entire GTA. I just really wish we, as baseball fans, didn't have to tolerate the calibre of broadcasting ineptitude that makes one prefer to attend independent instructional league ball. Whether it's broadcast "personalities" or a production team, the fourth-biggest market in all of MLB should really aspire for better.

It's possible I'm too hard on the private sector.

Cute reference, though! Nicely done.

Parker, do you frequently watch and listen to other broadcasts? The quality of the broadcast has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the market, and everything to do with that individual fan's preferences.

Parker I actually agree with you - I usually mute Buck and Pat when watching.

I also don't listen to "Jays Talk". I have in the past and often hear it referenced here, though never in a positive light. It's rather obvious the broadcast team is geared toward the Jays Talk types (I'm guessing at least 95% of the viewing audience), rather than Batters Box types, (the 5 percenters).

Just be thankful we're actually getting some decent content when Schulman makes his occasional appearance.