Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Blue Jays @ Orioles

The Blue Jays visit the Broad Street Bullies 2.0 in Baltimore for a weekend set.

The Blue Jays will have to deal with Manny 'Pacquiao' Machado this weekend as the appeal hearing for his four-game suspension is scheduled for Tuesday.

Series Schedule / Probable Starters

Friday at 7:05 pm ET - Aaron Sanchez (6-1, 3.38) vs. Mike Wright (3-3, 5.31)
Saturday at 4:05 pm ET - R.A. Dickey (4-7, 4.16) vs. Yovani Gallardo (1-1, 7.00)
Sunday at 1:05 pm ET - Marcus Stroman (6-2, 4.76) vs. TBA

The Orioles bounced back from losing three of four in Toronto by taking two of three at home against Boston. Their 38-27 record puts them one game ahead of the Red Sox and two ahead of the Blue Jays in the American League East. The walking wounded for the O's include reliever Darren O'Day, catcher Caleb Joseph and shortstop J.J. Hardy though Hardy may be back this weekend.

The Blue Jays improved to 38-31 on the season after taking three of four from the Phillies in their home and home set as well as winning three of four from the Orioles last weekend at the Dome. However, the Jays will be without Jose Bautista for the next little while. He was put on the 15-day disabled list with a toe injury suffering during the series finale last night in Philadelphia. Darrell Ceciliani has been summoned from Triple-A Buffalo.

On the positive side, the Jays have signed first-round pick T.J. Zeuch and 23 other players taken in the 2016 draft. There is also a chance Troy Tulowitzki may rejoin the club at some point this weekend after a quadriceps injury. The Jays will also have a couple of days off next week, Monday and Thursday but Baltimore has to travel to Texas to play the Rangers for a make-up game Monday before coming back home to play San Diego.

With Father's Day on Sunday, BlueJays.com has a story on a Blue Jays father and son combo. Happy Father's Day to my pop and all the awesome dads out there.

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Friday, June 17 2016 @ 05:32 PM EDT.

Blue Jays @ Orioles - June 17-19 | 114 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Four Seamer - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#324987) #

Nice timing for the O's that Machado will get to take at least a couple of his days off against the 27-41 San Diego Padres.

Hodgie - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#324988) #

That was sure sporting of MLB to allow Machado the opportunity to play 10 games against the two teams Baltimore is currently battling for the division lead before listening to his appeal.

scottt - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 06:43 PM EDT (#324991) #

That's fine. He wasn't playing the AL East when he got thrown out either.

Mike Green - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#324994) #

The O's have a promotion tomorrow- first 10,000 male fans (dads or otherwise) get an Orioles barbeque spatula. I wonder what promotion they have on the day before Mother's Day- Orioles bath oils for the first 10,000 female fans? In any event, as the man said, this is 2016.

greenfrog - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#324995) #

Sanchez showing maturity both in the first (pitching his way out of a bases loaded, none out jam) and in the second (efficient shutdown inning). He's becoming a pitcher, not just a thrower.

jerjapan - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:05 PM EDT (#324996) #

The O's have a promotion tomorrow- first 10,000 male fans (dads or otherwise) get an Orioles barbeque spatula.

Is it wrong that I laughed after reading this?

and no way do I go near my BBQ with a free Orioles spatula.

greenfrog - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#324997) #

Saunders is en fuego. He could have three home runs already tonight. Literally.

scottt - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#324999) #

Showalter is reluctant to burn through his bullpen unless the Jays let the Os back in it.
I like Dickey's chances if he can get that kind of run support. Or just half of it.

hypobole - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#325000) #

Gibby's going to let Sanchez go 5 innings I'm guessing.

If the score remains lopsided, no way he should pitch in the 6th.

Magpie - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 08:48 PM EDT (#325001) #

Nothing like three-run homers in Baltimore. Earl would be so proud.

mathesond - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#325002) #

Jumpin' jiminy, this Saunders kid can hit!

hypobole - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:14 PM EDT (#325003) #

So innings-limited Sanchez is still pitching in a 13-2 game.

Magpie - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#325004) #

this Saunders kid can hit!

Go figure. Coming into this season, this was a 29 year old outfielder with almost 2000 MLB plate appearances. With a slash line of .230/.301/.381. He was averaging 15 HRs per 162 games.

This is probably even more unexpected and inexplicable than the Bautista story.

pubster - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#325005) #

I don't think Gibbons wants the bullpen to throw 4 innings today. Why burn an extra arm if you don't need to?

dan gordon - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:35 PM EDT (#325006) #

Saunders was called up to the majors very young, and was terrible in his first 3 seasons, at ages 22-24. He started to look like a big league hitter at age 25, when he put up an OPS of .738. despite playing half his games in a very poor hitters' park. In 2014, at age 27 he had an OPS of .791, again playing in Seattle, and I had very high hopes for him last year, getting the chance to finally play in a decent hitters' park. Thought he might OPS around .850. He's about 150 points above that after tonight's fireworks.

JB21 - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#325007) #

I'd watch a movie about Joey's story, not too sure I'd watch one on Saunder's 2016 first half though.

snider - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#325008) #

Stat of the day: Mark Teixeira's OBP > SLG

Yikes!

ComebyDeanChance - Friday, June 17 2016 @ 11:03 PM EDT (#325009) #

I wonder if Manny Machado ahd Chris Davis will have Ubaldo pitch to them in the Home Run Derby.

dan gordon - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 12:13 AM EDT (#325010) #

Jays are 20-8 in their last 28 games, with 161 runs scored and 113 runs allowed over that span. That's 5.750 runs scored per game, and 4.036 runs per game allowed. Both are better than the team averaged last year, when they were at 5.50 and 4.136 per game. The question is whether this 28 game stretch is indicative of what the team can do the rest of the way.

katman - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 12:19 AM EDT (#325011) #

Well, that escalated quickly.

"The O's have a promotion tomorrow- first 10,000 male fans (dads or otherwise) get an Orioles barbeque spatula."

The advance grilling from the Blue Jays is free!

"I wonder what promotion they have on the day before Mother's Day- Orioles bath oils for the first 10,000 female fans?"

I bet that would be really popular. They should do it.

One tip from the Jays' experience, though - handing out bats as a promotion, even scaled-down baseball bats, is a really bad idea. Unless you're celebrating Young Offenders Day or something.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:20 AM EDT (#325012) #

It's all about the pitch count ending around 100.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:22 AM EDT (#325013) #

Unlikely, Ubaldo lacks control.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:24 AM EDT (#325014) #

Are those spatulas made of metal?

John Northey - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 08:10 AM EDT (#325015) #

Games like this remind me of why signing free agents is a crapshoot. A few years ago many here (myself included) thought signing Ubaldo Jimenez would be a good idea. He got 4 years, $50 mil and so far has given the O's an 83 ERA+ over 374 1/3 IP. They owe him $13.5 mil next year too. The guy the Jays almost had was Ervin Santana (various Jays offered to cut their salary for the year to help pay for him) he instead went to Atlanta for a year and then signed a 4 year $55 mil deal with Minny. Over the 3 years so far he has a 92 ERA+ (90 his year with Atlanta) over 369 IP I suspect Minny would be very happy if someone else owed him $13.5 mil a year for 2017/18 and the $1 mil buyout for 2019.

Meanwhile in 2014 who would either of these replaced? Hutchison 85 ERA+ or Happ 90. Maybe kept Stroman down longer.

greenfrog - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 09:15 AM EDT (#325016) #

As I mentioned earlier this year, I wonder if the Jays will offer Saunders an extension during the season. He's still only 29, he's Canadian, he seems to love playing for the Jays, and he's on pace for a 6 WAR season.

Maybe see whether he would agree to a three-year extension, maybe for around $20m (or higher) per year? He might end up being better value than Bautista or EE over the next few years.

AA gambled on Bautista's 2010 season being the real deal, and ended up negotiating a very team-friendly deal with Jose that off-season. Will Shapiro do the same with Saunders, or will he play it conservatively (perhaps being scared off by Saunders' injury history) and effectively let Saunders walk after this season? One thing is clear - if Saunders keeps this up, he's going to receive some very robust offers this off-season.

Mike Green - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#325017) #

Yes,metal spatulas or flippers as they are sometimes called.

Speaking of lack of focus, Manny Machado gave another textbook example last night.

Cracka - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#325018) #

Maybe the question was... "Are they really handing out 10,000 long METAL objects (but only to men) during a game against a hated division rival, at a time when both teams have had recent on-field issues, in a city that last year had a play a home game WITHOUT FANS due to civil unrest?"

But maybe it was just a question about a spatula. :)

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 10:42 AM EDT (#325019) #

An extension to Saunders wouldn't serve any purpose. That would just put the team on the hook in case of a major injury and create tension with all the other future free agents.

You give them all a QO. See if any accepts and then negotiate from there. If anybody is disgruntled and leaves on a sour note, at least he's not on the team in the middle of a playoff drive.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 10:43 AM EDT (#325020) #

That's what I was trying to figure out. I guess there's no metal detectors on the way out.

Chuck - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 11:00 AM EDT (#325021) #

But maybe it was just a question about a spatula.

Didn't Freud say something like that?

jerjapan - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#325022) #

Sure nice to be beating people's brains in again, especially with Jose and Tulo out.

Not much standout action on the farm last night, but nice to see Vancouver back in action. Lots of interesting youth on that team, and Justin Maese looked strong in his first start of the year.

spud77 - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#325024) #

No probs; we can beat them with or without Machado in their lineup. The teams they'll be playing next week now have a better chance of topping them... so we pull ahead in the standings and don't look back.

SK in NJ - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#325026) #

I know Osuna hadn't pitched in 6 days prior to last night, but saving him for today's game would have made much more sense. That way if today and tomorrow's games are close, he could have pitched in both. Now if today and tomorrow's game are close, maybe he only pitches in one to avoid going 3 days in a row. I guess Grilli is the back up plan in that case.

Tulo has been activated, per Twitter, and Burns sent down. He's in the lineup today. Maybe the Baseball God's will finally allow Tulo and Travis to play at the same time.

greenfrog - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 01:20 PM EDT (#325027) #

Scott, I'm assuming you're happy with the extension Anthopoulos negotiated with Encarnacion in his age-29 season in July of 2012? The one that netted the Jays 12.1 WAR (actual value: $92.9m) from 2013-15 for $29m, and also included a $10m option for 2016? I don't seem to recall that deal creating any clubhouse tension or ill effects.

Besides, a team shouldn't be held hostage by the opinions of a couple of players who, based on their pre-season contractual demands, are likely to depart after the season. You build the best roster you can, not the roster that pleases one or two players on your roster (or the fan base, for that matter).

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#325028) #

Edwin was offered 7M, 8M, 9M, 10M. A QO will gave Saunders around 14M.
Edwin was healthy, but a poor defender. Saunders is a good defender with only one good leg.

I don't know if there's a precedent for extending a free agent while refusing to discuss with others.
I don't see a vet like Shapiro doing something like that.

With regard to being held hostage by the opinions of a player, just look at the 2 year extension given to Donaldson, basically just to keep the peace.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#325029) #

Tulo only played one game in Dunedin? 1 hit and 2 strikeouts in 4 AB.

I would have like him to play a series in Buffalo. I hope that doesn't mean more Goins in the outfield.

Spifficus - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#325030) #

The Donaldson extension wasn't about keeping the peace. That was about maintaining the team's stance as a File and Trial arb team.

PeterG - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#325031) #

I thought I heard last night that Franklin Morales was out on minor league rehab and would soon be with Jays. Anyone else hear this or is it just my imagination. Would make sense as he has been throwing bullpens for more than 2 weeks.

CeeBee - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#325032) #

The sooner I don't have to watch Dickey pitch, the sooner I'll be happy. Then maybe we can get a real backup catcher too.

PeterG - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:13 PM EDT (#325033) #

I agree Ceebee. I can't believe that there are some that think Dickey will get a QO. Zero chance of that happening imo. Jiminez will be the back up catcher next year.

King Ryan - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 05:40 PM EDT (#325034) #

Thole is really having some year. A .348 OPS entering today; Bartolo Colon's is higher.

Magpie - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 06:01 PM EDT (#325035) #

Thole is really having some year. A .348 OPS entering today

And he's a .195 hitter since joining the Jays in 2013. R.A. Dickey - who had exactly one at bat in his first ten years as a pro - has hit .175 in 206 major league ABs, with a .384 OPS. Unfortunately, you can only DH for the pitcher.

greenfrog - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#325036) #

Is Tulo hitting better than Thole this year? I haven't checked.

Mike D - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 06:35 PM EDT (#325037) #

Yes. Vastly better. Awful, but still vastly better.

Mike D - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#325038) #

Very frustrating afternoon. Inexcusable passed ball by Thole, terrible base running error by Travis, awful at-bat by Smoak with one out and the bases loaded, and a number of gift called strikeouts.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 06:45 PM EDT (#325039) #

Happ might be a better hitter than Tulo right now.

Well. That was a close one.

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 07:22 PM EDT (#325040) #

Sure nice to be beating people's brains in again, especially with Jose and Tulo out.

Jays with Tulowitzki in the lineup 22-25 .468
Jays without Tulowitzki in lineup 17-7 .708

jerjapan - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#325042) #

That's just a fluke,CBDC. The contract debate aside, this team is definitively better with Tulo than without.

Count me as someone who thinks Dickey could easily get a QO. A healthy 200+ innings guy who can keep teams in games has a lot of value on a one year deal. Admittedly, Thole lessens his value - I always wish we'd picked up a AAA knuckler so a Jiminez could get reps catching him. A better backup catcher for Dickey makes him significantly more palatable - as frustrating as he can be to watch at times.

pubster - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 07:35 PM EDT (#325043) #

Bullpen was clutch in preventing another one run loss today.

pubster - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 07:39 PM EDT (#325044) #

Tulo might be worse than Romero.

scottt - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#325045) #

I don't get that Tulo doesn't need to rehab because he feels good.
How can you feel good striking out on A ball pitching?

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 09:55 PM EDT (#325046) #

That's just a fluke,CBDC.

I can accept that there are factors other than Tulowitzki's presence in the lineup that may cause the team to play worse, but to claim that the correlation is entirely spurious requires more than simply claiming it is. It's easy to see why the team would play worse with Tulowitzki. He's hitting a buck 99 with an OPS of .658. And Gibbons continues to play him up in the order.

Spifficus - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 10:40 PM EDT (#325047) #

2015:
Jays with Tulowitzki in the lineup 31-10 .756
Jays without Tulowitzki in lineup 62-59 .512 (12-8 .600 after the trade)

Given the conflicting message the records send, I would think a quick, offhand dismissal is appropriate until you provide a whole lot more, CBDC.

hypobole - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 11:17 PM EDT (#325049) #

"The contract debate aside, this team is definitively better with Tulo than without."

Definitively? Based on what exactly?

Barney has hit better than Tulo this year and has played better at SS.

Will that continue? Probably not, but there is nothing definitive.

Now, if the argument is that he's an upgrade over Andy Burns, I'll concede your point.

hypobole - Saturday, June 18 2016 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#325050) #

Machado's 4 game suspension will begin with our series finale tomorrow.

Took Hutch 105 pitches to get through 6 innings, but otherwise an excellent start - 4 hits, no runs, 1 walk, 10 strikeouts, 4/2 GO/FO.

Dave Till - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 08:07 AM EDT (#325051) #

My $.02 on Tulo: when I watch him at the plate, I get the impression of someone who is trying too hard. He's trying to hit the ball out of the park every time up in order to help his new team win, and that never works.

He also spent all of his career before last year in the friendly confines of Coors Field, where baseballs tend to travel a long way. He's now in the AL East, in a still hitter-friendly but lower-altitude ballpark, and he's still making adjustments. Plus he has probably lost something to age.

He's still an outstanding defender, though, so I'd rather have him in there than Barney or Goins. His arm is so strong that he does not need to set himself before throwing - he can fling the ball from any angle he wants.

I think he'll eventually turn it around, though he won't ever achieve his Colorado numbers again. A few weeks ago, we were giving up on Russell Martin, and he's gotten it together. Tulo has a tremendous work ethic; if he can make it happen, it will.

SK in NJ - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#325052) #

Thole has a WAR of -1.1 since 2013, which is amazing since that has come in a grand total of 405 plate appearances. He's been very, very awful.

If Dickey were putting up 2012 numbers for the Jays, then I could live with Thole every 5 games, but if Dickey is just going to be a league average innings eater, then while that's valuable to have around, it's not worth keeping a back-up who is going to cost you close to a win every year if given back-up equivalent plate appearances.

Thole would be out of baseball if it wasn't for Dickey. He can't even hit minor league pitching, and doesn't have any defensive value. The Jays really should have allowed AJ Jimenez to catch Dickey in Spring Training and go with that option.

dalimon5 - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#325053) #

Real life is not like fantasy baseball. Players go through ups and downs. Tulo's career numbers speak for themselves, both at and away from Coors Field. He's helped guys like Arenado learn how to hit better, he's hit the most home runs off of Kershaw, I think he's still the best fielding shortstop in the history of baseball, ever, based on his fielding percentage. He's still in his early 30s. To look at his past half year to full year, with three injuries (one in Colorado, two in Toronto) as well as his slow adjustment to the ridiculous AL East pitching (Odorizzi, Smyly, Price, Miller, Betances, Orioles bullpen etc), to ignore that and talk about "correlations" is utter nonsense.

In the worst start of his career (which surely wouldn't last) he was on pace for 80+ RBI and 30+ HR with a top half team OPS, but that doesn't matter because we lose with him in the line up and he's terrible.

dumb dumbs running amuck.

johnny was - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#325054) #

My recollection of the mid-2000s has apparently betrayed me because Doug Mirabelli actually wasn't too bad with the stick as Tim Wakefield's personal catcher lo those many years ago. So far this year the Bosox have used 3 catchers with Steven Wright (Swihart, Hanigan, and Vazquez). He's pitching great, but Hanigan and his .604 OPS are on the DL (he has been the go to guy for Wright when healthy) and Vazquez is OPSing a robust .571. That only looks good compared to Josh Thole. Sweethart only caught him the one time.

Someone with a love of data tables and windy prose should sit down and do long piece on the historical performance of career knuckleballer caddies. My question is to what extent the advantages of using a knuckler are offset but the disadvantages of putting their caddies in the lineup. The more you know.

hypobole - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#325055) #

Tulo is not terrible, but Darwin Barney has been better this year, both at the plate and in the field.

AL ERA - 4.20

TB 4.03
Bal 4.20
NY 4.22
Bos 4.23

Ridiculous?

Yes he's been great in the past. This the present. He may rebound, he may not.

greenfrog - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#325056) #

One further thought about Saunders. In his short tenure to date, Shapiro has shown himself to be somewhat conservative in making moves. This has served him well so far, as he has made a number of savvy, low-cost acquisitions that do not entail much in the way of contractual obligations.

In my view, the challenge for Shapiro is going to be when prime opportunities come up to acquire or extend top-tier talent (as Anthopoulos did with Encarnacion, Bautista, and Donaldson). Whether or not you think Saunders currently represents one of those opportunities, it will be interesting to see whether Shapiro has it in him to make those kinds of bold moves -- which, of course, tend to require more money and prospects, and therefore run the risk of being more prominent failures.

If Saunders does become a free agent, I think he'll be in high demand, with the Yankees one likely suitor (note that Beltran's contract expires this year).

jerjapan - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 01:47 PM EDT (#325057) #

Interesting question Greenfrog - AA was bold to a fault, and Shapiro was forced to play conservatively with the budget he had in Cleveland. He definitely has the resources to swing and miss a couple of times with Rogers' budget behind him - hopefully he isn't too risk-averse. Not that you have to swing for the fences every time up, but taking the right risks is an advantage. this is in part why I assume that we will retain at least one of our big bats this offseason, and at a surprisingly (to some) reasonable price - I can't see a scenario where Shapiro runs the Jays like small market Cleveland.

I'm surprised that people disagree with my comments on Tulo, I honestly thought that saying the team is better off with him on the roster than the DL was something we should all be able to agree on. FWIW, Darwin Barney will turn 31 before Tulo turns 32. And he is, you know, Darwin Barney.

On the farm, Hutch struck out 10 in 6 IPs, Harris ran his record to 6-1, and Danny Barnes, wtih 10x more Ks than walks in AA, needs a promotion.

pubster - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#325058) #

Stroman to AAA or to the bullpen?

greenfrog - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:07 PM EDT (#325059) #

Tulo answers his critics in the best way possible.

Mike Green - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#325060) #

The ball is flying. Travis' home run to center looked like it would be a routine fly off the bat.

greenfrog - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#325061) #

Gameday says injury delay...what's happening?

PeterG - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#325062) #

I would send Stroman to AAA and give Leblanc his well deserved shot in the show.

pubster - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#325063) #

I wouldn't mind seeing Frenchy pitch in the majors.

cybercavalier - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#325064) #

To PeterG, give LeBlanc his chance could increase his trade value too; LeBlanc's time to shine is now. in time, Sroman can still develop.

Also, is Carrera an in-house solution as a LHB leadoff. If so, Carrera and Travis combo could solve the leadoff solution.

cybercavalier - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#325065) #

(#325057)

In addition to my last post, Barney and LeBlanc could be useful to some teams which need a starting 2B and SP. In return we can get some young players -- Ceciliani or Biagani types -- to restock farm teams: the Twins ? the Braves ? Then Harris, Pedromo and Barnes could be promoted.

CeeBee - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#325066) #

Home plate ump got hit with a foul ball.

CeeBee - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#325067) #

Some pitchers pitch to contact. Stroman is pitching to AAA.

Four Seamer - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#325068) #

Bisons fans should think about getting their Stroman jerseys now, ahead of the rush.

John Northey - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#325069) #

I know his infamous decision to pitch to contact is a terrible one (I remember in the mid-80's the Mets pitching coach pushing Dwight Gooden to do that after he had a sub 2 ERA in a Cy Young year). There is an old rule - if it ain't broke don't fix it. Sadly Stroman decided to fix something that wasn't broken. I wonder if there is another issue we don't know about, actually I kind of hope there is a physical issue we don't know about as that would make a ton more sense.

Richard S.S. - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#325070) #

The Jays need to carefully review all of Marcus Stroman's pitches because something has changed. Whether they can or can't find out what's wrong, he needs to go down for a minimum of three starts to try to find his mojo again. Drew Hutchison's starts are close enough he can be called up to fill that spot. Solving Marcus could be very easy or very hard, but it can't easily get done up here. The sooner he's fixed, the better.

cybercavalier - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 04:04 PM EDT (#325071) #

Did Diamond's DFA create a spot on 40-men roster ? If so, shall LeBlanc get the call to see him how he can be a starter of 1 game: say against San Diego when he spent seasons with. Then Hutchison comes up.

pubster - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#325072) #

I know it's small sample size but stroman seems to pitch better when he starts spring training with a knee injury.

=)

grjas - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#325073) #

Stroman is having his troubles with boston and baltimore. Last 4 games- 18 IP, 38 hits and 24 earned runs. And 13 hits to Tampa Bay. These are the teams that have seen him the most.

I hope it's just a slump and that they haven't " figured him out. "

scottt - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#325074) #

Stroman is inconstant. 2 wild pitches, missing low for balls, missing high and giving up hits.

Dickey just need more run support.

It seems to me that pitching outside while putting on the shift is not a good combination.

BlueJayWay - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 06:06 PM EDT (#325075) #

Okay the recent surge has the Jays in a pretty good spot: in a wildcard currently, just 3 out of the division lead, and now embark on more than a month straight against non-AL East opponents. They spend virtually the entire month of July at home.

On the plus side today, Devon Travis is really looking like the hitter he was last year.

jerjapan - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 06:33 PM EDT (#325076) #

I know it's small sample size but stroman seems to pitch better when he starts spring training with a knee injury.

=)

Stupid emoji or not, you should stop being a dick.

Paul D - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 06:49 PM EDT (#325077) #

I thought pubster 's comment was funny.

Even if he deserved it,, I have a hard time seeing the club demote Stroman.

ISLAND BOY - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#325078) #

I would agree about not sending Stroman down. I think they will work on things between starts a while before doing that. Also, while I like Tulowitzki, it seems like Travis,Barney and Goins can handle the two middle infield positions adequately. If Tulo and his massive salary could be traded, which might not be so easy , wouldn't that leave the club in a better position going forward?

SK in NJ - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#325079) #

Stroman is giving up way more hard contact this season to go along with a mediocre K%. This does not appear to be a fluke or bout of unluckiness. He needs to change something in his repertoire. In the games that I've seen, there's been a lot of 2-seamer emphasis, as well as pitching to contact (which is something I believe he wants to do, IIRC), and that's simply not going to work. Good offensive teams are going to carve him up until he makes the adjustments.

I have more faith when Dickey starts now than when Stroman does, and that's not good.

Richard S.S. - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#325080) #

Tulowitzki was traded to the Blue Jays which activated a No-Trade Clause in his Contract. He stays as long as he wants, no one else's opinion will matter. Troy plays his position exceptionally which everyone will agree is better than adequately. Devon Travis and Troy Tulowitzki are the Jay's middle infield as long as they want to be. All Darwin Barney and Ryan Goins will ever be is talented Bench Players. Most teams do better too.

If they can't figure out what's different about Marcus Stroman, they must send him down. Keeping him up here to work things out doesn't win games. Right now they need to win as many games as possible as they've already thrown away over at least a dozen wins thus far.

pubster - Sunday, June 19 2016 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#325081) #

Jer u telling me to stop being a dick is a dick move.

You should lead by example.

Or maybe get a better sense of humour like Paul D. Great guy, great poster, that Paul D is. I've always liked him.

jerjapan - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 02:13 AM EDT (#325082) #

Rogers dumps Strombo. Now that's a dick move.

Parker - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 08:53 AM EDT (#325083) #

I think the dick move was firing legendary hockey broadcaster Ron MacLean and replacing him with a MuchMusic veejay. What they're doing now is more like "correcting a stupid, stupid mistake."

Mike Green - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 08:55 AM EDT (#325084) #

The top 4 in the order went 0-16 and the club still scored 6 runs. There's your silver lining.

Stroman is throwing almost 50% two-seamers according to Pitch fx on fangraphs, but is has been more effective so far than his four seamer, which he has thrown much less frequently. It seems to me that he's had a lot of trouble commanding the four-seamer in the zone and therefore he uses it less (and this doesn't help his command). It's a bit of a vicious cycle.

Chuck - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 09:58 AM EDT (#325088) #

I think the dick move was firing legendary hockey broadcaster Ron MacLean

I don't watch much hockey but couldn't agree more. Many organizations only embarrass themselves when trying to appeal to a younger demographic. Ron Maclean is a sincere and genuine fan of the sport. Yes, he's a nerdy middle-aged man, but so what? It's all part of the charm. There's no pretense with him at all. Strombo, on the other hand, is a hipster dufus (who is actually just 10 years younger than Maclean, despite his youthful affectations to pretend otherwise).

I grew up a passionate fan of the Canadiens, listening to Danny Gallivan and Dick Irvine. At no point do I recall thinking that it would be so much better if they were younger.

Mike Green - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 10:02 AM EDT (#325089) #

I grew up a passionate fan of the Canadiens, listening to Danny Gallivan and Dick Irvin

Fixed it for you. You can call it an enormous save if you want to go a little overboard!

jerjapan - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#325090) #

Hey, firing Maclean was a dick move too ... this is just the most recent one ...

Why is Strombo a doofus? Personable, passionate, articulate - I always liked the guy. That said, I only watch hockey when the Leafs are good, so it's clearly been a long time ....

grjas - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#325094) #

Interesting strike zone plot of Stromans last start on BP Toronto. He Is clearly leaving a lot of pitches up in the zone which franky makes me feel better as the issue should be correctable. If he was hitting his spots and still getting shellacked I'd be a lot more worried.

I do actually agree with them that Stroman should go down for a few weeks to work on his control as the division is too tight to have a pitcher stumble this badly for too long. Plus Hutchison deserves a shot at starting a few games, which also allows management to see how mucah his game as progressed before they likely sub him in for Sanchez. Stroman's a smart guy. He'd use a demotion to work on his game rather than sulking.

Mike Green - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#325095) #

The replay of the injury to Dale Scott was hard to watch in slo-mo, with him spread-eagled behind the catcher as the ball was incoming. After they showed it on MASN, I waited for Jim Palmer to pipe up. In his trademark dry style, he simply said, "it hit him in the groin", and continued on about how serious that kind of injury can be. I will confess that George Carlin's line about two way words echoed in my head- you'll never hear Joe Garagiola say "that one got him in the balls, Curt.". Anyways, I wish him a speedy recovery.

It took Bob Davdson an awfully long time to get ready to get behind the plate (Palmer joked that maybe he was getting his uniform pressed). Stroman was fidgeting out there while he waited. It was the last thing he needed.

jerjapan - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#325096) #

grjas, a short demotion might be a good move for Stro - the Cards gave Kolten Wong a week in the PCL, and just demoted another of their young stars in Randal Grichuk.

I'm sure it's as simple as the discounting principle in action, but I can't help to wonder about the psychology of a demotion when a player struggles upon returning to the minors. Stro does strike me as resilient enough to handle it well.

92-93 - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#325097) #

"I have more faith when Dickey starts now than when Stroman does, and that's not good."

Since May started Dickey has a 2.97era over 10 starts. Blame the unearned runs on him and it's still 3.68. In at least 2 of those starts Gibby tried to squeeze a clean 7th out of him because he had zero bullpen to work with, and Dickey gave up runs. I understand the concern about Stroman, but do we really need to slag Dickey and drag him into the discussion? Next thing you know he'll be declared "toast".

uglyone - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#325101) #

Tough series loss, and Stroman still has no semblance of command in the zone. Weird considering it's been a huge strength for him before this year. It just seems that every time Martin targets the ball on the bottom corner the ball just floats up to top middle.

Ah well, the good news is that Travis is back on track, Martin continues to hit, and Tulo is back, which should fill all the holes in the lineup nicely going forward.

Magpie - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 06:15 PM EDT (#325106) #

I don't watch much hockey

Neither do I, and I'm beginning to think it's because I no longer understand what I'm watching. Game done changed since the days when I actually played it. Nowadays, it's all about defensive systems and breakout patterns. Which is probably fine but there's no one around on the TV who's willing to explain it to me. I actually have a better idea of what the teams are trying to accomplish when I watch basketball, a game I never played in my life. (Granted, basketball is easy to watch because it's much, much slower than hockey or baseball. Without being as slow as soccer, which to me has always just seemed like hockey on downers.)

scottt - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 06:22 PM EDT (#325107) #

It didn't look to me like Stroman was pitching to contact. He just wasn't commanding his fastball.

For example, against a left handed batter with the shift on, an elevated pitch outside is hit on the right side.
If you're pitching to contact, you pitch inside so the ball goes where the defenders are.

Dave Till - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 06:28 PM EDT (#325108) #

Stroman is leading the American League in batters faced, with 410. Perhaps he just needs some rest.

Chuck - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 07:53 PM EDT (#325109) #

Fixed it for you. You can call it an enormous save if you want to go a little overboard!

Cheers. I hereby perform a Savardian spinorama on your behalf.

hypobole - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#325110) #

3 things.

1. I'm glad Tulo is trying to prove me wrong. Please continue to do so.

2. jerjapan, if pubster is not addressing you, ignore him.

3. pubster, very much ditto.

Thank you, pubster, jerjapan and Tulo.

hypobole - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#325111) #

For example, against a left handed batter with the shift on, an elevated pitch outside is hit on the right side.
If you're pitching to contact, you pitch inside so the ball goes where the defenders are.

Was watching a Yankee game last year. RH hitter, Yankees shifting, pitch just grazed the bottom outside corner, batter poked it into right field.

Al Lieter starts a diatribe on the stupidity of shifting because the pitcher had thrown a great pitch that would have been a sure out if they were playing straight up.

Are there any analysts who actually understand the modern game?

scottt - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#325112) #

I really meant left side there, but the argument stands. If you want to pitch to contact you don't help the hitter find the holes in the defense. You throw low sinkers to induce ground balls and high 4 seamers to induce pop ups. It's like throwing sliders against opposite hitters. Most pitchers can't do that effectively.

If the count is 0 and 2 and you throw a breaking ball outside to set up the 4th pitch inside, it's not supposed to get hammered.

scottt - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#325113) #

Batters faced isn't the best measure of workload.

Chuck - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#325115) #

Number of pitches.

Stroman is 17th in MLB. Sanchez is 31st. Estrada is 44th.

Magpie - Monday, June 20 2016 @ 11:36 PM EDT (#325116) #

Leiter starts a diatribe on the stupidity of shifting

There's something there, though. If you put on a shift like that against a RH batter, you're a) telling the hitter he probably doesn't need to worry about the outside half of the plate, which certainly simplifies the batter's task, and b) trusting that your pitcher can actually hit the inside half of the plate with some regularity.

Which is why it would probably have been a bad idea to use a shift when someone like - well, like Al Leiter himself was pitching.

Michael - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 02:44 AM EDT (#325117) #

On the Jays pitcher workload, the Jays also lead the league with the most games played (tied with Arizona), many teams are 3 games back, some as much as 5. And the Jays have had good health/effectiveness with all but 1 start from their top 5 starting pitchers.

I certainly don't oppose resting or demoting Stroman if folks think that's what it takes for him to be good again, but from a workload POV the Jays are in a generally ok place.

SK in NJ - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 07:30 AM EDT (#325118) #

"Since May started Dickey has a 2.97era over 10 starts. Blame the unearned runs on him and it's still 3.68. In at least 2 of those starts Gibby tried to squeeze a clean 7th out of him because he had zero bullpen to work with, and Dickey gave up runs. I understand the concern about Stroman, but do we really need to slag Dickey and drag him into the discussion?"

It wasn't a shot at Dickey. At this rate, he (should be) the 5th best starter on the team; the innings eater who keeps you in games. The fact that Stroman, who many considered to be the ace of the staff prior to the season (me included), is less trustworthy at the moment than him is an issue. Not a knock on Dickey by any means, but moreso a knock on Stroman.

scottt - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 08:38 AM EDT (#325119) #

At least they are taking it easy on Happ and Dickey.

John Northey - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#325121) #

Who would have predicted the Jays would be just 2 1/2 out of the AL East lead with Stroman having an 80 ERA+, Cecil out and ineffective when he was here, Storen having an 80 ERA+, Pillar & Tulo both being in the 80's for OPS+, Bautista is only at 119 and DL'ed, Martin climbing back to 70, Goins at 41 which would've been a poor year for John McDonald. Not to mention good ol' backup Thole at 0 for OPS+. Yes, Zero.

Of course, there are good points too. Saunders with a 160 OPS+, Carrera 123 (who saw that coming?), Estrada has a 163 ERA+ (2 fewer starts than Stroman), Sanchez & Happ both in the 120's, Biagini has a 146 (remember that reliever ERA's are notorious for being misleading).

Some good and some bad or very bad yet right there in contention.

uglyone - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#325122) #

Don't look now, but the Jays' elite offense seems to have returned, and without any help from the gods of babip:

JUNE: 132wrc+ (#1), 112rn (#2), .280babip
Last 30dys: 122wrc+ (#1), 154rn (#1), .282babip

meanwhile, the gods have stopped gifting the red sox, finally:

APR/MAY: .341babip, 128wrc+ (#1), 308rn (#1)
JUNE: .305babip, 104wrc+ (#12), 83rn (#13)

CeeBee - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#325123) #

The lord giveth and the lord taketh...... nice to see the taketh being done to the Red Sox. :)

Mike Green - Tuesday, June 21 2016 @ 04:09 PM EDT (#325124) #

Facing the lefty Corbin with large platoon splits, the Jays have Travis DHing and batting second and Barney playing second and batting ninth. Good decisions by Gibbons. The D'Backs send out another lefty tomorrow.

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