And just like fashion, it's a passion for the with it and hip. If you're in the race they'll come and watch it just to stay in the clique. So don't delay. Act now...

(Wrong thread? The HR Derby was great.)

I thoroughly enjoyed the Derby. The Frazier/Cincy, Great American Small Park, and young phenoms parts didn't hurt. It's going to be tough to top next year in PETCO.

The ASG makes me feel like a kid again, the player intros might be the best part.

the player intros might be the best part.

That's my favourite part too! Just now I loved how the Cincinnati fans mercilessly booed every Cardinal player who was introduced, and all of them (except Rosenthal seemingly) just took it with a big grin. Yadier Molina clearly was basking in it. Awesome stuff.

Poor Stieb shafted on the jays "franchise four". I don't think Carter should have made that list.

I'd never seen deGrom pitch before. Nice arm.

Poor Stieb shafted on the jays "franchise four". I don't think Carter should have made that list.

Seasons of 2+ WAR with Toronto:

Carter: 4.6, 2.9, 2.0
Stieb: 5.7, 5.1, 4.8, 4.6, 4.3, 4.1, 3.3, 2.9, 2.6, 2.6

Career WAR with Toronto:

Carter: 7.8
Stieb: 33.9

close call

Typo. Stieb's career WAR with Toronto is 43.9.

Baseball Reference has Stieb's Toronto WAR at 57.4, Halladay 48.5, and the rest of the top 10 at http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/leaders_pitch.shtml .

For position players, they have Tony Fernandez first if you include defense, Delgado first if you just count offense, as per http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/leaders_bat.shtml .

Just found a link to the top-50: Carter is 34th in Blue Jays career position player WAR according to http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/leaders_bat_50.shtml .

The celebration of Pete Rose in Cincinnati got me thinking again about Shoeless Joe Jackson, whose birthday is tomorrow.  Jackson had 62 WAR through age 32 when he was banned for life.  Players in the 60-70 range through age 32 included Duke Snider, Reggie Jackson, Ron Santo, Gary Carter, Yaz, Al Simmons, Robin Yount, Clemente, Trammell and (interestingly) Jeff Bagwell.  Bagwell was probably not quite the force at his peak that Jackson was, but it would be close.

It's now been almost 100 years since the Black Sox scandal.  The Hall of Fame is a house of history, and maybe it's a time for a Room of Nuance, where flawed ballplayers are given their due.  Screen Eight Men Out and let us look at photocopies of transcripts/judgments as well as honouring what Jackson accomplished before 1919.  I guess I am getting soft in my dotage.

Thanks StephenT - looks like Bautista will own most of those offensive categories in a year or two if he stays (here and healthy).

Those career WAR lists are fun to read.

Is Mark Eichorn's 1986 season the most insane year ever by a Blue Jay?  14-6 in 69 games as a reliever, with 157 IP, 166Ks and a WAR of 7.1??  How could he possibly lose ROY to Canseco?  Actually, check that, I know the answer, we were all a bit less savvy back then. 

Anything top that season for sheer improbability? 

That year was a lot of fun with Eichhorn.  Jimy Williams was an idiot on the last day - Eich said he didn't want to prevent Clemens from getting the triple crown of pitching but Clemens already lost the K portion by then all he had to do was get an extra 5 IP for Eich to win the ERA crown that year and it would've been easy with a double header.  Sigh.  Which was the worst hire by the Jays Gord Ash as GM or Jimy as manager?  Both 'Peter Principle' hires - promoted until they failed.

Eich was amazing vs a Red Sox team that was powerful - watching him K Rice and the rest was pure entertainment as it looked like the pitches were a foot outside but they swung anyways.

John, I didn't start following the Jays closely till 87 so I missed Eichorn's peak - even though his 87 season was still impressive.  He really could make hitters look bad.  

You just don't see relievers used the way he was anymore, but I can't help but wonder if all those innings hurt his career, like I do with Dave Steib. 

Nice that he was brought back for the WS years, although I was sad to see Rob Ducey go in that deal - one of my first fave prospects.  He did manage to carve out a 15 year MLB career for himself - pretty good for a guy who never got more than 250 PAs in a season. 

Jimy Williams was an idiot on the last day - all he had to do was get an extra 5 IP for Eich to win the ERA crown that year

I may be wrong, but I recall that Williams offered to give Eichhorn a start on the last day of the year, but Eichhorn turned it down.

You just don't see relievers used the way he was anymore, but I can't help but wonder if all those innings hurt his career, like I do with Dave Stieb.

Was it overuse, or did hitters just adjust to him? Again, my recollection may be faulty, but I recall that hitters realized that Eichhorn's sinker dropped out of the strike zone, so they learned to lay off it. That forced him to bring the ball up, then wham.

That forced him to bring the ball up, then wham.

To Dave's point, Eichhorn's L/R split in his big year was 779/351. For his career, it was 752/596.

He was always hittable by LHB. It was just a case of the RHB, as Dave said, becoming a little more patient. Eichhorn still had ROOGY value, but at a more pedestrian level.

Yeah Eich said he didn't want to steal the triple crown from Clemens (pre internet so he might not have known Clemens lost the K lead) but Williams should've checked and told him 'no you cant take what he doesn't have and this is a once in a generation shot for a reliever to win the ERA title and got it for him.  Just seemed dumb at the time how it went down.  And yes, the voters were that dumb back then...remember, they voted Bell and Dawson MVP's the next year for failing to lead their teams with all their RBI's over superior shortstops.  Sigh.

Eich said he didn't want to steal the triple crown from Clemens

My memory says it was just about the ERA title, not the Triple Crown. I don't remember even thinking of a pitching Triple Crown until Clemens came to Toronto. But Eichhorn would have needed 10.2 IP on the final day to reach 163 IP and qualify for the ERA title (yes, the Jays played 163 games in 1986.) The Jays finished with a DH on the final day and Eichhorn worked in both games, a total of 4.2 IP.

Clemens missed on the K title mostly because he pitched just 1.2 IP in a post-season tuneup for his final start.