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Game Threads Blue Jays vs Angels - May 18-21
Another awful road trip finds the Blue Jays needing a big homestand here to get back into the AL East race. They dropped two of three in Baltimore before pulling a no-show in Houston in a four-game set to drop their record to 17-22, dead last in the division but only five games back of the division-leading Yankees. The Angels lost in Baltimore Sunday but still took two out of three from the Orioles to stay above .500 at 19-18, 5-1/2 games behind the Astros for first place in the AL West.


The Jays have called up Todd Redmond from Triple-A Buffalo to start in the series opener and have designated lefty Jeff Francis for assignment. This move pushes everyone back a day in the rotation. Redmond made one start among his four appearances with the Bisons, posting a 1-1 record with a 4.50 earned run average. He struck out 13 batters, walked two batters and hit two others in 14 innings. The 30 year-old righty, whose birthday was yesterday, earned his first victory of the year with a one-run, five inning performance in relief in Buffalo against Durham one week ago. As for Francis, he lost two of three decisions with a 6.75 ERA with Toronto and was tagged with the loss in Saturday's game in Houston. The 34 year-old Vancouver native may be at the end of the line as he has not posted an ERA below 5.00 in the majors since 2011 with Kansas City.


Series Schedule / Probable Starters

Monday at 1:07 pm ET — C.J. Wilson (2-2, 2.63) vs. Todd Redmond (0-0, 16.62)
Tuesday at 7:07 pm ET — Hector Santiago (2-2, 2.41) vs. Aaron Sanchez (3-3, 4.26)
Wednesday at 7:07 pm ET — Jered Weaver (2-4, 4.44) vs. Drew Hutchison (3-0, 6.17)
Thursday at 7:07 pm ET — Matt Shoemaker (3-3, 5.63) vs R.A. Dickey (1-5, 5.76)


Extra Innings
  • Mark Buehrle sums up the Jays situation right here.
  • Josh Donaldson had to endure the dumbest interview of his career Sunday after making these comments Saturday.
  • In the what could have been department, Noah Syndergaard got his first major league win and James Paxton shut down Boston Sunday.
  • Marlins GM Dan Jennings takes over for former Jays minor league skipper Mike Redmond as the new manager in Miami.
Posted by #2JBrumfield on Monday, May 18 2015 @ 12:02 PM EDT.
Blue Jays vs Angels - May 18-21 | 180 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Chuck - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#300890) #
Josh Donaldson had to endure the dumbest interview

Even Barry Davis's softball interviews, like with the players' parents, are awkward and forced. Put him in a situation where some grit is called for and all you get is inane prattling.

Rogers has probably decided that Zahn can continue to do his Don Cherry, man of the people, thing -- it plays well with a large segment of the fanbase -- as long as everyone else remains a corporate shill and sycophant.

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Chuck - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#300891) #
This move pushes everyone back a day in the rotation.

Makes sense. I'm sure fatigue has set in with some starters having been asked to go more than 5 innings lately.

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uglyone - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#300892) #
think sanchez should get the demotion but its probably gonna be estrada. I'd worry about starting redmond but he can't be any worse than the others.
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Chuck - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#300893) #
I'd worry about starting redmond but he can't be any worse than the others.

At least he'll be facing the league's worst offense.

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finch - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#300894) #
I started to wonder whether the Blue Jays would go ahead and fire Gibbons. If AA does fire Gibby, this will be his very last chance to get it right. If the next manager doesn't work out, AA will be gone. I like AA and I like what he's done in the drafts, building the system. His major league trades haven't really worked out as well as we all hoped. I believe this team needs to a natural managerial leader. I have a gut feeling that the leadership on this team is quite poor. I have no data to back this up, but they need a manager with a proven track record and will hold these guys accountable. The worst trade that AA made was the one trading Doc. The haul of prospects was nice at the time, turns out it was rather terrible, but that leadership void was, in my opinion, never filled. Doc was a no non-sense type of guy, that was a jerk to some, if you didn't pull your weight or weren't professional. I was Bautista was that guy but he isn't. Great talent, just a cry baby when strikes/ump calls don't go his way.
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greenfrog - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#300895) #
Ken Rosenthal thinks Gibbons is on the hot seat (although many of the team's problems aren't his fault):

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/next-manager-fired-blue-jays-john-gibbons-mets-terry-collins-padres-bud-black-051815

The next step likely depends on ownership, and Rogers Communications is generally more absentee than assertive. If Gibbons goes, Anthopoulos likely will not be far behind, even though he has done a terrific job assembling young talent.
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finch - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#300896) #
Well this Ken Rosenthal you speak of is a smart fellow *insert appropriate emjoi
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uglyone - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#300897) #
the funny thing is gibbons has done a great job cobbling together the best offense in baseball from an injury riddled lineup (including some pretty awesome baserunning calling), and passable relief work from an overworked bullpen whose two best relievers have imploded.

manager can't do much about his starting pitching being this disastrous, though.
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scottt - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#300899) #
I never understood why AA picked Gibbons in the first place. In hindsight I think he expected the teams he put together to do well regardless of who was and the helm and didn't want to share the credit with a star manager. By selecting someone known for his failures, someone who had no prospects of major leagues employment, he stood to look good if Gibbons only looked average.

Alas...

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CeeBee - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 02:58 PM EDT (#300900) #
Or no other more qualified manager was interested in coming to a foreign country.
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finch - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#300902) #
There's only 30 managerial jobs in the MLB and MLB Managers have x-amount of shelf life. Shouldn't be TOO difficult to find one with a substancial resume, especially since Toronto is a huge market, with a huge following when they're winning; are within the top 10 of MLB payroll; have a top 10 farm system; and are in win-right-now mode.Seems like a very appealing job!
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CeeBee - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#300903) #
"Seems like a very appealing job!"
For a Canadian.... somewhat less for many Americans. Thats my opinion, nobody has to agree with me.
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CeeBee - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 03:37 PM EDT (#300904) #
By the way, nice bounce back inning for the Jays. Need a bee under their bonnet more often it seems.
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uglyone - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#300905) #
blaming the manager for this disaster starting rotation is...not smart.
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greenfrog - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 04:10 PM EDT (#300906) #
I hope the Jays get their pitching sorted out, because it would be a shame to waste these prime seasons by Donaldson, Martin, Bautista and EE.

It was interesting to read the quotes from Norris in John Lott's latest piece:

http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/mlb/toronto-blue-jays-rookie-pitcher-daniel-norris-on-a-journey-to-rediscover-himself-and-his-fastball-in-buffalo

It makes you realize that there are consequences to aggressively promoting young players like Norris and Pompey and then demoting them after a brief stint in the majors. They can take the demotion hard. I note that Pompey is hitting 207/292/224 (wRC+ 51) in Buffalo. The rapid promotion / yo-yo approach to prospect development is not always ideal. It doesn't seem to have been ideal in Pompey's case.
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jerjapan - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#300907) #
sure there are consequences, just as there are consequences for not challenging  a highly motivated young athlete who is finding the sport easy - or any other number of simple analyses.  armchair psychology is just waaaaay to hard to discuss meaningfully in the abstract - it's about relationships between individuals and is utterly non-quantifiable.  I'm a high school teacher and work with young people who i try to motivate on a regular basis - every relationship is different and the various trends towards making these relationships objective (standardized testing, etc) are hugely problematic. 

we just don't know what makes Dalton Pompey tick. 

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finch - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#300908) #

"It makes you realize that there are consequences to aggressively promoting young players like Norris and Pompey and then demoting them after a brief stint in the majors. They can take the demotion hard. I note that Pompey is hitting 207/292/224 (wRC+ 51) in Buffalo. The rapid promotion / yo-yo approach to prospect development is not always ideal. It doesn't seem to have been ideal in Pompey's case."

 

If you look at Stroman last season, he had the right attitude and had the results based on his 2nd promotion to the club. Maybe the Blue Jays feels that giving a prospect a taste in the big leagues, then sending them down to work out a couple kinks, and them bringing them back up, is the right way to handle prospects. Stroman had the right attitude, the right mindset where he's gonna go down, use it as motivation. If a prospect is like, "oh wow, I failed and I've got to work some things out," that's the attitude and mindset that I don't want on the team.

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cybercavalier - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#300911) #
If AA does fire Gibby, this will be his very last chance to get it right. If the next manager doesn't work out, AA will be gone. I like AA and I like what he's done in the drafts, building the system. His major league trades haven't really worked out as well as we all hoped. I believe this team needs to a natural managerial leader. I have a gut feeling that the leadership on this team is quite poor. I have no data to back this up, but they need a manager with a proven track record and will hold these guys accountable. The worst trade that AA made was the one trading Doc. The haul of prospects was nice at the time, turns out it was rather terrible, but that leadership void was, in my opinion, never filled. Doc was a no non-sense type of guy, that was a jerk to some, if you didn't pull your weight or weren't professional.

If AA only has another chance after Gibby to get it right, would Bobby Valentine a good candidate ? Would his grudge against Boston media help Jays ? If so, Bobby V probably manages few seasons; after the Jays get very close to world series or winning it, both Bobby V and AA will be relieved and would then usher in a new era of Jays baseball ?


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John Northey - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 08:23 PM EDT (#300915) #
The problem with old managers is they have very obvious issues.  Bobby V is an ego maniac for example.

Given the pitching has been the nightmare it might be past time to replace the pitching coach. Leo Mazzone is available and many thought he was one of the best ever.  So why not go get him instead of watching yet another year go south due to pitching issues?

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Gerry - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#300917) #
Scott Copeland has been recalled. Another move will be made tomorrow. I assume either Ryan Tepera or Todd Redmond will be dispatched.
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scottt - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#300918) #
Hitters go through slumps. It's difficult for a hitter to work on specific things, it's not like the opposite pitcher is there to help him.  As long as Carrera is doing alright I don't see an issue. I don't think sending a guy done during a slump is worse than sending him down at the beginning of the season for service reason.

Hiring Leo Mazzone does  not sound like the type of things AA would do.
Actually, Randy St-Claire seems to be doing something right in Buffalo. In 2014, the Herd posted a league-best 3.52 team ERA and walked the second-fewest batters (438) in the circuit.

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greenfrog - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#300919) #
The thing is, because of the Jays' finances and the way AA has constructed the team's roster (i.e., with no payroll remaining and numerous prospects already traded), the team had an incentive to push their remaining prospects (Norris, Sanchez, Pompey, Castro, Osuna) to the majors before they may have been ready. I suspect the Jays were aware that Pompey might not have been quite ready, but hoped they could get cheap production out of him (if only as a defense-first center fielder) while he continued to develop. Unfortunately, that plan backfired, as Pompey who began struggling (mentally, if not physically) in the majors and ended up needing some more time in the minors.

Stroman was a different type of prospect: a polished college player with stuff and control/command whom many observers expected to make the majors quickly. He's also two years older than Norris and a year and seven months older than Pompey.
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Magpie - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 09:15 PM EDT (#300920) #
I've said this before, but when the time comes to replace Anthopoulos and Gibbons (this winter, I expect, until a playoff appearance intervenes) just once I'd like to see the team hire some people who had actually succeeded somewhere in the major leagues. Give it a try! In what's now almost 40 years, the franchise has never done that - not with the GM, not with the manager (with the single exception of hiring Jim Fregosi in spring 1999, which was an emergency move in the wake of the Tim Johnson affair. And Fregosi's record wasn't very impressive - while he had taken two different teams to the post-season, those two teams were the only ones he'd had in 13 seasons as a manager that managed to play .500 ball.)

The Jays have always hired people with no track record of success whatsoever in the position they're being asked to fill. They got very, very lucky with Gillick, Cox, and Gaston. Maybe that's created a belief that it can always be done again. But it looks like that winning streak ran out a long time ago. This isn't working. Time to try something else.
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Magpie - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 09:25 PM EDT (#300921) #
Leo Mazzone is available and many thought he was one of the best ever.

Personally, I always was a little skeptical about the Mazzone effect. I think Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz (not to mention Bobby Cox) could make me look like a pretty fair pitching coach. Whatever Mazzone had, he didn't take it with him to Baltimore.
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cybercavalier - Monday, May 18 2015 @ 11:02 PM EDT (#300923) #
Scott Copeland has been recalled. Another move will be made tomorrow. I assume either Ryan Tepera or Todd Redmond will be dispatched.
the team had an incentive to push their remaining prospects (Norris, Sanchez, Pompey, Castro, Osuna) to the majors before they may have been ready.
Actually, Randy St-Claire seems to be doing something right in Buffalo. In 2014, the Herd posted a league-best 3.52 team ERA and walked the second-fewest batters (438) in the circuit. The Jays have always hired people with no track record of success whatsoever in the position they're being asked to fill. They got very, very lucky with Gillick, Cox, and Gaston. Maybe that's created a belief that it can always be done again. But it looks like that winning streak ran out a long time ago. This isn't working. Time to try something else.

Don't know if DeMarlo Hale is a good one ?
For the corresponding move for Copeland, how about sending down Sanchez ?
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ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#300924) #
Today's game lent truth to the old adage 'Bad pitching beats bat hitting'.
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christaylor - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#300927) #
I don't believe that Rome is burning, but it strikes me that talking about changing coaches and managers is fiddling while Rome burns.

AA is probably safe, even JP got 7 years, and will be so until a new president is in place.

To paraphrase a coach in a different sport from a different time, "The Jays are what we thought they were and we should let them off the hook." -- a .500-ish team that had an outside shot of the playoffs if and only if Pythagoras smiled upon them.

I'm enjoying Donaldson and Martin. I have some sympathy with those who advocate trading Bautista and/or EE, provided the players coming back are useful ML players within the next couple of years.

Norris and Pompey will, at the very least, look very good by September. Stroman will return next year. There ought to be some cash to improve the team going into the 2016 season. Is that really so bad? Besides, last year the Royals were 26-30 on June 1st, this team has more time and more talent than that group. Aside from the nonsense about payroll parameters the Jays appear to have a good process in place. Let it be.
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hypobole - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 11:31 AM EDT (#300928) #
I'm an Edwin fan. Even when he was struggling a few years back and he was being booed by the home crowd, I stood and cheered loudly for him (and looking around the RC, I may have been the only one).

That said, AA has painted himself into a corner with his roster, and has to trade him. He's one of the best sluggers in league, controllable this year and next at a very reasonable $10 million per. He has value.

This team has far too many 1B/DH types already, even without factoring in the need for the DH spot to be used for rest/playing time purposes for guys like Reyes and Navarro(although AA should be working the phones to get rid of them as soon as they are healthy).

Meanwhile, the Angels DH's have slashed 194/222/262. And their top 2 prospects, Heaney and Newcombe, are pitchers. Maybe the Angels aren't desperate enough yet, but there would surely be other suitors as well.

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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#300929) #
Donaldson/bautista/ee/martin is the best foursome the jays have ever had, are the best foursome in baseball, and are extremely affordable. trading any of them would be criminal.

and what is this "glut" of 1B/Dh types? we have exactly one established quality 1b/dh type, and that’s EE.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#300930) #
Our lineup has scored by far the most runs in baseball this year despite being forced to play a full 2nd string outfield most of the year, and missing their SS. Why on earth would we break it up?

Last 2yrs, minimum 600pa, MLB rank:

6. Bautista 156
14. Martin 145
16. Encarnacion 141
22. Donaldson 134

and that comes with a whole bunch of defensive value. breaking them up would be criminal.

only one other team has more than 2 in the top 25, the tigers with 3. except Vmart and miggy and jmart all have hugely negative defensive value.

Donaldson, Bautista, and Martin are all top 10 in war the past 2yrs. No other team has 3 guys even in the top 30.


just go get some pitching. we've got $30m in SP money coming off the books in 4 months. we have lots of prospects. especially pitching prospects. go get some pitching.
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hypobole - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#300931) #
Edwin (and Jose and Martin and Donaldson and Reyes) aren't getting younger or better. Keeping the pitching status quo this year and adding pitching next year wastes a year of value for all the great hitters we have
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#300932) #
add it now.

hamels. kazmir. cueto. go get it.
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cybercavalier - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#300933) #
just go get some pitching. we've got $30m in SP money coming off the books in 4 months. we have lots of prospects. especially pitching prospects. go get some pitching.
Edwin (and Jose and Martin and Donaldson and Reyes) aren't getting younger or better. Keeping the pitching status quo this year and adding pitching next year wastes a year of value for all the great hitters we have

Do you mean, "go get some pitching NOW !!!!" ? Jeff Francis, Johan Santana, Randy Wolf, Felix Doubront, Joel Pineiro, Andrew Albers, Wilton Lopez are Jays. Jeff Francis has been DFA'ed, is now Wolf's turn for a shot in Toronto ?

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Dave Till - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 01:04 PM EDT (#300934) #
Two thoughts:
- The Jays' pitching is suffering from the absence of Marcus Stroman and there being no replacement for Casey Janssen.
- The Canadian dollar took a beating this year, so Rogers' expenses on the Jays went up even without signing ballplayers other than Martin. The cupboard is probably bare, alas.
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BlueJayWay - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#300935) #
Edwin (and Jose and Martin and Donaldson and Reyes) aren't getting younger or better. Keeping the pitching status quo this year and adding pitching next year wastes a year of value for all the great hitters we have

That's my worry. If they keep the status quo they could have a great rotation by about 2017 or 2018 with Stroman, Osuna, Norris, Hoffman, etc. But by then that group you mention (except maybe Donaldson) would probably not be that good, and in any case would take a lot of money to keep both Bautista and Edwin. The pitching and the hitting isn't really timing up.
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finch - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#300936) #
The only way I would trade either Joey Bats or EE is if I get 2 top prospects plus a MLB ready arm back.

Something like Cory Seager, Julio Urais, plus a SP from the Dodgers. Or Lucas Giolito, Gio Gonzalez, and Michael Taylor. And perhaps an arm or two for the bullpen.
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Jevant - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#300937) #
Unless you honestly believe that Hutch, Dickey and Buerhle have all of a sudden gotten close to 2 ER per 9 worse over the offseason, positive regression is coming for those 3.  Maybe not to "ace" numbers, but to "capable, startable SP" numbers which when coupled with an elite offence will be enough to win more than you lose.

The Jays starting OF for the last 3 weeks has been some combination of Carrera, Pillar, Colabello and Valencia.  Their SS has been Ryan Goins.  And they still scored the most runs in baseball.

I agree that an extra SP would be nice, but let's not go crazy and think that the pitching won't improve somewhat without doing anything, and the bats are eventually going to be upgraded internally with a healthy Reyes, Saunders and Navarro.

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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 01:54 PM EDT (#300938) #
the pitching will almost definitely improve internally (though i wouldn't be shocked if Dickey was toast)....and imo that is a key reason why we should go trade for a couple good arms.

if i thought all of our SP would continue sucking THIS badly, then i wouldn't believe adding a couple of arms would make us good enough to contend anyways.

You add a #1 like Hamels or Cueto, and another mid rotation arm, and then get a bounceback from hutch and buehrle, and we're rolling.
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Jevant - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#300939) #
I'd be all for adding starters, but I guess I'm finding this talk of trading EE or Bautista or anything from our active roster to essentially be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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eudaimon - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#300940) #
I'm not worried at all about Dickey. I remember 2013 when he also started pretty poorly, before finishing well in the last four months. If anything, he looks better now than he did then. Hutchison should get better (actually has nice peripherals, and a FIPx of 4), and Buehrle's already looking better. If those guys can start stringing together good starts we could go on a nice little run.
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cybercavalier - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#300941) #
I'd be all for adding starters, but I guess I'm finding this talk of trading EE or Bautista or anything from our active roster to essentially be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Carlos Ruiz is not getting younger ? How about a trade based on Navarro and Redmond plus more asset for Hamels ?
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China fan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#300942) #
"....Our lineup has scored by far the most runs in baseball this year despite being forced to play a full 2nd string outfield most of the year, and missing their SS. Why on earth would we break it up?....."

I wouldn't rule out any trade options at this point, including Encarnacion if he nets the right return.  As pointed out above, the Jays could actually improve their offense when Reyes and Saunders are back, so the offense is a position of strength that will only get stronger.  Why wouldn't the Jays trade from a position of strength, in order to bolster a position of weakness (pitching)?  The value of filling one major hole on the roster (the rotation) is probably a lot greater than the cost of a downgrade in one position in the lineup. You have to look at the size of the upgrade in one position, versus the size of the downgrade in another position, and the Jays could have a chance to improve the overall roster if they do it right.

The argument about not "breaking up" a great lineup is illogical for two reasons:  1) Trading one player doesn't "break up" a great offense.  It just reduces its strength slightly.   2) The Jays already "broke up" a great lineup by trading their excellent DH in the off-season, and the offense hasn't suffered at all.

If the Jays are going to trade anyone, Encarnacion might be the easiest to replace.  I'm not necessarily advocating it.  I'm just saying that it shouldn't be ruled out.
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China fan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#300944) #
"....Encarnacion might be the easiest to replace...."

I don't mean this in the sense of replacing his offensive value from 2013-14.  I mean this in the sense of his defensive value (not very high) and the fact that DH/1B types are generally easier to acquire.  Maybe even someone like Colabello can be an adequate DH.  And of course we still have no idea when Bautista might be able to return to the outfield.
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Paul D - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#300945) #
Carlos Ruiz is not getting younger ? How about a trade based on Navarro and Redmond plus more asset for Hamels ?

Redmond and Navarro are the 'plus' in a trade for Hamels, not the meat. They (certainly Redmond and probably Navarro) have 0 value to the Phillies. The Phillies are terrible, so getting an older catcher in Navarro, who's a free agent after this year, doesn't help them at all.

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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#300946) #
the guys we want to be targeting are going to be dealt for kids, not vets.

and with stroman, hutch, norris, hoffman, sanchez, osuna, castro IMO we 'd be dumb not to use a couple of those guys for a legit front of the rotation guy like hamels or cueto.

the problem is that if we wait until the deadline it might be too late. this division is a dogfight.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#300947) #
£'d try something like:

Hamels for Sanchez + Pentacost + Castro + Nay

and then try to get Kazmir without giving up a prime young piece.
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China fan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#300949) #
Chris Colabello, incidentally, is up to 53 plate appearances and still has a OPS of .994.  When you combine it with his almost identically good numbers at Buffalo this year, he has 148 plate appearances with an OPS of nearly 1.000 this season, and his performance begins to look less like a mirage.

Prefer to toss out the Buffalo numbers?  Okay, let's look exclusively at his major-league numbers since the beginning of last season:  273 plate appearances with an OPS of .726.  And you really have to factor in the injury that he (erroneously) tried to play through last year.  He played half the season while still hampered by a thumb injury, so his hitting numbers since the beginning of 2014 should probably be adjusted upwards.  In that case, he's probably adequate as a DH, even if he can't maintain his hot start this year.  Not necessarily an easy replacement for Encarnacion, but the downgrade might not be as much as we fear.





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85bluejay - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:25 PM EDT (#300950) #
The AL East is so weak, I don't think any of the teams will feel any pressure to do anything drastic - good news for John Gibbons.
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hypobole - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:30 PM EDT (#300951) #
uglyone - sounds great and would make sense if Ilitch or Steinbrenner cut the cheques.
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jerjapan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#300952) #
Colabello's a great story thus far, and I always pull for the underdog minor league vet, but I'm still wary of another Juan Francisco / Randy Ruiz scenario. No reason to not keep giving him chances though.

That's a steep price for Hamels Ugly, given that he's earning 22.5 million a year for the next 3 with a 6 million buyout in 2019 but he truly is an elite arm, durable and consistent.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#300953) #
that's why i want to make a trade so bad....that does look like a pretty big package...but then again, to me, those are all secondary young pieces. we can afford that.

ans hypbole - $30m in SP money is coming off the books next year, with cheap kids ready to fill the gap. hamels wouldn't boost payroll much at all.
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cybercavalier - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#300954) #
How about guys like Jenkins and Rasmussen? Both are around the age of Goins; all three have developed in the minors. Losing them eventually due to lack of roster space like the White Sox claim on Drabek is probably a waste of previous effort to get them.
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eungar - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#300955) #
"$30m in SP money is coming off the books next year, with cheap kids ready to fill the gap. hamels wouldn't boost payroll much at all."

while this statement is true, if you trade that package then there wont be any young and cheap kids to then plug into the lineup.
sanchez is exactly the type of pitcher that cannot be traded if we intend to lower payroll.
pentecost is the type of prospect that may be able to come up even as early as next year for really cheap.
and castro will be back for cheap.
this trade just doesnt make any sense on any level at all.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#300956) #
See, for me I already slot stroman hutch norris hoffman osuna ahead of sanchez in terms of our young starters. that's a full rotation of young guys i'd have ahead of him, and then hamels would be ahead of those 5.

and Pentacost may be good but Martin is our catcher for the next 5yrs. and I like this Jansen kid down in lansing for ths future anyways. and Pentacost is not that young and has 5o be a couple years away at least.

This is why, imo, we can affore to give up a strong package like this.

We would still have this rotation for the next 4yrs even without Sanchez:

Hamels
Stroman
Hutchison
Norris
Hoffman/Osuna

and Sanchez is just the guy I am low on there - if you are lower on another guy maybe you try to trade him instead. Either way we can afford to trade a really good young SP prospect to get a legit front rotation guy imo.
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jerjapan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#300957) #
I could swallow that deal without Sanchez - maybe a Smoral type? Pentacost, Nay and Castro don't fit our current window but certainly would for the Phillies, but we need Sanchez with so few short-term pitching prospects ready for the Show.

Cybercavalier, I admire you for trying to find value, but those arms are fungible. Drabeck didn't represent a lost asset to me at all - he wasn't an asset, and Jenkins and Rasmussen derive most of their asset status from having options. For Jenkins that ends this year and both project as middle relievers anyway - not much value there.
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eungar - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#300958) #
the way I see it is that every time I turn on the Mets game (I live in NY and therefore watch more often then I'd like to admit) I see or hear about syndergaard and think "what a terrible trade, what could've been".

I'd Reay like to not have to do that with Sanchez also.
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grjas - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#300959) #
I could swallow that deal without Sanchez - maybe a Smoral type?

No I don't think that would get the deal done. The deal uglyone proposes I think is a really good one both for this year and at least next- much as I like all the players- but the major challenge I suspect is getting Rogers to front the 2015 portion of the money.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#300960) #
The Syndergaard hype is a bit much. The liveblogging live updating highlights debut is something usually reserved for generational prospects, not guys who aren't even top 10 prospects.

and i say this as a guy who loved syndergaard much more than sanchez.

The kid wasn't good in his first start, and the numbers say he was a bit lucky against mlb's worst offense in his 2nd start.

beware the NY hype machine.they did the same for joba and hughes.
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scottt - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#300961) #
Not sure if AA is allowed to to empty the farm before the new president sits in.

Incidentally, Beeston turns 70 next month.

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jerjapan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 05:19 PM EDT (#300962) #
Allowed by who? Rogers needs to sign off on salary, but not prospects??
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China fan - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#300963) #
".....the way AA has constructed the team's roster (i.e., with no payroll remaining and numerous prospects already traded)....."

For what it's worth, Ken Rosenthal has the exact opposite interpretation of AA's roster construction.  He wrote this today: "....the Jays at some point will need veteran help. They’re deep in prospects and under budget, putting them in good position to swing deals."
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Maldoff - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#300964) #
Sanchez is starting to remind me of Drabek circa 2011-12, and not in a good way.....
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finch - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 06:14 PM EDT (#300965) #

Sanchez reminds me of Doc during his first stint with the Jays...in a good way.

He's got some kinks to iron out but the stuff is there and the stuff is filthy.

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raptorsaddict - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 06:44 PM EDT (#300967) #
If you have to include Sanchez, I'd be inclined to do something more like Sanchez/Castro/Nay.

Without Sanchez, I'd do Castro/Pentecost/Nay/Lugo or Urena.

As far as Sanchez goes, the only thing we know for certain is that his career is going to fall somewhere in between that of Kyle Drabek and Roy Halladay. That's one hell of a variance. And people making an argument predicting either outcome both have lots of arguments in their favor.

I look forward to adding one more data point in either direction in about a half hour. If I had to guess, I'd handicap Sanchez's potential career outcomes like this:

Drabek (Kyle, not Doug) - 20%
AJ Burnett/Ubaldo Jimenez - 70%
Roy Halladay - 10% (the pure stuff is unquestionably there - sometimes)

Regardless of this though, one thing I feel strongly about as a fan is that they need to decide which of the pitching prospect chips to cash in, and bring in legit big league talent right now.

The window is open for only so long on our elite sluggers, so it's time to mortgage a bit of the future for the here and now. As always in baseball, the total value of the mortgage at the time of purchase is only vaguely known, and it could end up costing you a ton or costing you nothing. Time to roll the dice again AA.


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Alex Obal - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#300968) #
You do not want to fall behind in the count against Aaron Sanchez. Not that you have much choice in the matter, not that Sanchez necessarily does either, but...
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raptorsaddict - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#300969) #
OK, after watching those two strikouts, I take it back. Do not trade Sanchez. Too much upside.

Still, I'd be ok with trading pretty much anyone in the minors other than Pompey, Norris, Hoffman and Alford.

So, that means any big offer would include some combination of Castro, Pentecost, Smith, Reid-Foley, Nay, Boyd. I could live with losing most if not all if it brought back a legit front end guy who'll be around for a few years (which basically means Hamels or bust).

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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#300970) #
Sanchez is dealing. Let's see if he can keep it up.
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raptorsaddict - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:13 PM EDT (#300971) #
Sanchez is the greatest pitcher ever, I wouldn't trade him for Kershaw and Koufax in his prime. I hereby recant all previous heretical comments to the contrary.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:24 PM EDT (#300972) #
ok maybe don't trade him. :)
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Gerry - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:27 PM EDT (#300973) #
I don't see why you would send Martin from second with Colabello up. The DP took away a chance for a run or two.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:33 PM EDT (#300974) #
Two cheap hits off Sanchez. Stay focused, kid.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:37 PM EDT (#300975) #
*Great* composure by Sanchez. Best start by a Jays starter this year?
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Alex Obal - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#300976) #
Gerry, would that decision have come from the dugout? I didn't catch whether the runner on first was moving as well.

I kind of recoiled in horror when Martin started Calhoun (the blind squirrel who'd homered by running into a first-pitch fastball up and away) with a changeup. And then another changeup. With predictable results.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:00 PM EDT (#300977) #
but of course the leadoff walk in the 7th, the first walk of the day, comes in to tie ut. poor kid.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#300978) #
The leadoff walk was unfortunate, but Sanchez did a nice job of battling and not letting the Angels take the lead. Very good start for Sanchez. Decent control and phenomenal stuff.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#300979) #
I'm not sure running Sanchez out for the eighth is a good idea.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#300980) #
oh boy. gibby playing with fire.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#300981) #
that was bad managing. clearly losing control in the 7th, top of the order up in the 8th. ach.

hopefully osuna can put out this fire.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:18 PM EDT (#300982) #
I'm sure Gibbons will have a folksy explanation for why Sanchez was left in to start the eighth.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#300983) #
damn that is upsetting. no excuse for that.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:21 PM EDT (#300984) #
oh look, Santiago isn't coming out for the 8th on 100 pitches with the top of the order up.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#300985) #
Sanchez gave Gibbons an absolutely stellar seven innings, better than almost every other Jays' start this year. It's too bad Gibbons couldn't just accept this gift and focus on the battle of the bullpens, which is where this one should have been decided.
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ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#300986) #
I'm one of Gibbons' biggest critics on the board and I thought leaving Sanchez in was the right move. Cito Gaston built confidence in his pitchers exactly with moves like leaving him in. If Donaldson goes to first I doubt you'd be posting that.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:37 PM EDT (#300987) #
Actually, I questioned leaving Sanchez in before the eighth began. Meaning I actually took a position before Gibbons' decision - not after.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:39 PM EDT (#300988) #
infuriating loss.

gibbons is killing me this year.
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JB21 - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#300989) #
4 hits, 2 runs, Gibby's fault.
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Alex Obal - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#300990) #
What CBDC said. Sanchez was on 96 pitches in his best start of the year, with a switch-hitter and two righties due up. Pulling him against his hometown team under those circumstances would have been a bit... proactive.
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ComebyDeanChance - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#300991) #
Fair enough. My point wasn't that you were exercising hindsight, but that Donaldson's choice to get the lead runner had a big effect on the outcome and that leaving Sanchez in was the right move. Indeed I would have been happy to see him left in another couple of batters to see if he could pitch out of it. Tough loss but some good pitching.
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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#300992) #
I disagree that Sanchez had to be left in to build his confidence. Tonight's start was already a significant step forward for him. He was starting to falter in the seventh. You have to weigh the potential upside of building his confidence (through a successful eighth) versus the downside of detracting from his confidence by letting him flounder and lose the game.

In any event, the Jays are in win-now mode this year. The primary goal is arguably to win ballgames, not helping Sanchez gain experience in late-inning situations (which he will eventually gain either way).
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#300993) #
At 96 pitches.

Just scraped out of the 7th inning against the bottom of the order with some defensive help after giving up a hit and his first 2 walks of the game, clearly tiring and losing the strikezone.

Top of the order coming up in the 8th for the 4th time.

You pull him. No question.

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greenfrog - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#300994) #
Also, pitch count isn't all that relevant in that situation. Sanchez is a special case. He has been brilliant at times and wild at times (with a very high walk total for the season). Tonight his control was quite solid, but there were red flags in the seventh. I think Gibbons has to be sensitive to Sanchez's particular strengths and weaknesses and manage him accordingly. Seven excellent innings of 96-pitch, two-walk baseball would have been significant progress for Sanchez and a notable accomplishment in itself. He didn't need the eighth for the night to be a confidence-building and potentially breakthrough start for Sanchez.
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uglyone - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#300995) #
As far as i'm concerned Gibby did the good Citoesque confidence building thing....in the 7th inning.

Letting Sanchez finish off the 7th against the bottom of the order and pitch himself out of trouble was a great confidence builder and a smart risk.

bringing him out to face the top of the order in the 8th, though, was just asking for trouble.

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scottt - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 10:01 PM EDT (#300996) #
I don't think see how you build confidence when the pitch count is over 100.

Gibbon doesn't trust anyone to pitch a scoreless 7th right now.


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scottt - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#300997) #
Or an 8th.
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BlueJayWay - Tuesday, May 19 2015 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#300998) #
So right now we're 4-11 in games decided by one or two runs, and 14-12 in games decided by 3+
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Petey Baseball - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 05:14 AM EDT (#300999) #
Another frustrating loss, but we all have to be encouraged by Sanchez. He is definitely showing signs that he's this year's edition of Stroman, and could be even better. The way things are trending, it appears that the Jays were correct that his ability was being wasted in the bullpen.
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Petey Baseball - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 05:21 AM EDT (#301000) #
I am pleased Gibbons let Sanchez pitch the 8th. If Donaldson makes the routine play, he's likely out of the inning. He made great pitches that inning, and all night.

If anything, I'm critical of Gibby for his penchant for hit and runs. Don't have the numbers out front, but gosh it seems like he calls for it a lot, and I can't remember once it ever leading to a hit (that wouldn't have otherwise been one), or it leading to a double play being avoided. The fact that Colabello probably swung at ball four made that very irritating to handle. Martin doesn't even run that well. Makes no sense to me at all
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Jevant - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:54 AM EDT (#301001) #
If Donaldson goes to first, the Angels don't score.  Donaldson accepted responsibility for the mistake.

Trying to pin the loss on Gibbons is silly, in this case.

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Jevant - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#301002) #
"I knew it was going to be a tough play," Donaldson said. "Obviously I thought there was going to be a play with Aybar there. I was wrong and it ended up costing us."

That's from the Sportsnet game recap.  That's your ballgame right there.

Tough loss, but maybe let's focus on the excellent Sanchez start, and go get 'em tonight.  Way more positives than negatives from last night.
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electric carrot - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:46 AM EDT (#301004) #
I think I'm more optimistic than most on this site about the Blue Jay's chances of winning the East. The things I notice is that there offense is genuinely fantastic. They're top of the entire league offensively and there's room for improvement.  Their defense is good too.  The pitching just needs to be average.  At the moment it's terrible/godawful/despicable/groan-inducing bad. I don't think it's that hard for it to get better and be near average. I'm creating an artificial deadline of June 15th to check in again with my optimism.  Until then ... I choose to be positive for the moment.


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85bluejay - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#301006) #
Fans keep whining about the Stroman & other injuries - Look at the injuries that teams like the Rays(not to mention all the players traded away)/Nationals/Cardinals/Giants have endured, yet they are still playing winning baseball - the jays are lucky to be playing in such a putrid division.
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BlueJayWay - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#301007) #
the jays are lucky to be playing in such a putrid division.

After all those years where the AL East was the toughest division in sports, I think we've earned a little break.
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bpoz - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#301008) #
I am OK with the whining, I feel the same.

I think most of us will agree on some of the following.
1) All starting pitchers have been inconsistent, this year. Good, bad and OK. Sanchez has the lowest ERA. Last year Buehrle had a fantastic start, that helped a lot. We got wins and the pen got a chance to rest.

2) I do not know how to rate our defense. So what ever anyone says is fine with me.

3) People say that our offense is fantastic. I believe that fantastic has to be defined. A team that scores a lot of runs and is leading everyone else in runs scored and by a wide margin is not necessarily fantastic IMO. The high scoring games have to be compared to the low scoring games IMO.
Please allow me to explain my point of view.
We lost 4 games 7-10, 5-6, 7-8 & 5-6. The offense scored enough to win. Definitely a strong offense.
We won 7 games by scoring 10-13 runs. Definitely a fantastic offense.

4) We lost 16 games when we scored 1-3 runs in total. But we did win one game 3-1 against the NYY on May 4th. So 1-16. The offense did not do it's job in those 17 games.
Looking at the 4 high scoring losses VS the 1 low scoring win may tell us something. OK, I do not know what to say other than our record should be 4 wins and 1 loss, in all fairness in those 5 games.

Someone has carried the high scoring by this team, but not Bautista and EE. I expect Bautista & EE to do more in the future. But then will Donaldson & Colabello do less?
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 11:40 AM EDT (#301010) #
i'm still angry. this was the most upsetting loss of the season for me. this game was ours.
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92-93 - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 11:46 AM EDT (#301011) #
They scored two freaking runs. The game was never theirs.

It's really damn cold outside today, they need to fire John Gibbons already.
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#301012) #
Divisional Standings

ALC: .537 (+26 Rdiff, -7 BRdiff)
NLW: .503 (+4 Rdiff, -4 BRdiff)
NLC: .503 (-8 Rdiff, +5 BRdiff)
ALE: .500 (+19 Rdiff, +9 BRdiff)
NLE: .487 (-23 Rdiff, -34 BRdiff)
ALW: .472 (-18 Rdiff, +14 BRdiff)

don't kid yourself that this division is weak. it's not. at the very worst it's mediocre, but component numbers say there's a good chance that it's the best division in baseball again, like it was last year.
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#301013) #
as hard as it is to believe, teams win games in which they score 2 runs and are tied heading into the 8th all the time.
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85bluejay - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#301015) #
"they need to fire John Gibbons already."

And have AA admit what he termed at the time (paraphrasing), his best and most confident decision as GM, be an abject failure - very unlikely - It will have to come from higher up & that's likely not to be until it's too late to salvage the season in what's a very winnable division.
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92-93 - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#301016) #
And since it apparently wasn't abundantly clear, that was a joke.

The only failures involved with this team land directly on AA's doorstop and his decision to not only not augment the pitching staff, but to use a piece of it to acquire an injury-prone OF with one knee. Even an arm as mediocre as JA Happ's would provide much needed depth to this rotation and strengthen the bullpen.
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92-93 - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#301018) #
Edwin Encarnacion is a very valuable commodity, so I'd hesitate to rule out any trade without first seeing what we are getting back. The Mets are a good example of a team that is in contention and yet has pitching to spare, at least in terms of how badly they need a power bat in the middle of their lineup. They have a 2015 rotation of Harvey-deGrom-Colon-Niese-Gee with Wheeler hurt and Syndergaard and Matz practically MLB-ready.
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Hodgie - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:24 PM EDT (#301019) #
"It's too bad Gibbons couldn't just accept this gift and focus on the battle of the bullpens, which is where this one should have been decided."

Yes, because that stratagem has worked out so well for Gibbons this season.

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Dave Till - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:41 PM EDT (#301021) #
I would be very surprised to see AA fire Gibbons. The two go way back, and Gibbons is very much the GM's man.

I expect that everybody will get fired this off-season. I only hope that Rogers doesn't trade away actual ballplayers to land the baseball executive of their dreams.

As for trading EE or whatever: that just fills one hole to open another. And do you really want to see EE walking the parrot for somebody else?

I'm not as troubled by the Happ for Saunders trade as some are. The Jays needed an outfielder - still do - and it isn't AA's fault that Saunders hurt his knee. Besides, I don't really see J.A. Happ as being the missing piece that drives this team to a championship.
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Jevant - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#301022) #
In the event the team doesn't make the playoffs, yeah, everyone gets canned.

Completely agree on the not-trading EE and the Happ/Saunders deal.  Just because that hasn't worked out in the first 7 weeks doesn't mean it was the wrong idea at the time.

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Dave Till - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#301023) #

The Mets are a good example of a team that is in contention and yet has pitching to spare, at least in terms of how badly they need a power bat in the middle of their lineup. They have a 2015 rotation of Harvey-deGrom-Colon-Niese-Gee with Wheeler hurt and Syndergaard and Matz practically MLB-ready.

I saw Syndergaard pitch in New York on Sunday. He sure looked MLB ready to me, and Mets fans are already into him - they dress up like Vikings with giant hammers and such. He threw a high fastball right by Adam Lind, which was fascinating to watch.

The league hasn't caught up to him yet, and I'm sure they will, but right now he looks like a rotation mainstay. If he goes on to have a dominant season, and Dickey continues to struggle, AA will be fired for sure. (Not saying he deserves to be, but that he will be.)

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85bluejay - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#301025) #
So, Rogers can afford to way overpay for NHL rights, help pay millions for an injured hockey player just to give the Leafs a chance to spend more money, help pay a huge record for a coach for the hockey team - But, when it comes to their baseball team - sorry, no money at the trade deadline last year, no money this year - We know where there priorities lie.
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Dave Till - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 02:36 PM EDT (#301026) #

So, Rogers can afford to way overpay for NHL rights, help pay millions for an injured hockey player just to give the Leafs a chance to spend more money, help pay a huge record for a coach for the hockey team - But, when it comes to their baseball team - sorry, no money at the trade deadline last year, no money this year - We know where there priorities lie.

Rogers overpaid for the NHL rights, but the Leafs aren't all Rogers - they're owned by MLSE, which is now Rogers, Bell, and Larry Tanenbaum. I'm not sure what the decision tree is here, but I think it's separate buckets.

My belief is that the exchange rate is what has done the Jays in - the dollar fell from 90-something cents US to 80 cents in a year. It's gone up lately, so maybe the Jays can afford to trade for an expensive pitcher now.

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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#301027) #
to be fair, they spend way more salary on the jays than the leafs, and get far less profit on return.
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Beyonder - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#301028) #
I expect Rogers protects itself against exchange rate risk. They are not in the business of speculating on currency fluctuations, and you can't run a business when your purchasing power decreases by 20% as it has over the last couple of years.
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92-93 - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 05:33 PM EDT (#301029) #
Ahh, the old Canadian dollar excuse. In 2008 the Jays payroll was around 98m, and prior to the next season (2009) the dollar plummeted to the lowest it's been the last 10 years and lower than it is today - around $0.775 USD. The 2009 payroll took a hit and was reduced to around 80m. By the time the next season (2010) started the CDN dollar had rebounded around 30% to be essentially on par with the US dollar, and by the start of the 2011 season the CDN dollar was worth MORE than the US dollar. Guess what? The Blue Jays spent LESS in those years with a strong Canadian dollar than they did in the year in which the Canadian dollar was at its lowest in 10 years. It was only after 4 years of running a paltry payroll (only one of which could be attributed to the CDN dollar) that the Jays decided to spend some money.

It's way too convenient to blame all of this on the rise and fall of the Canadian dollar, which a corporation the size of Rogers should be hedging against (or actively making the financial decision not to) anyway.
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greenfrog - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#301030) #
Presumably the reason Rogers wanted Duquette is that he has a track record of producing more (or comparably) competitive teams on a lower payroll than the Jays have been spending of late. Can't fault Rogers for wanting better results for the money spent.

The thing is, the Jays have acquired a lot of elite talent under AA. It's just that he has (arguably) traded away too much of it for too little in return. My concern is that by jettisoning AA, the organization may end up downgrading its ability to amass talent. I don't want to go back to the Ricciardi era when we were drafting first rounders like Adams, Ahrens and Arencibia.
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greenfrog - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 07:10 PM EDT (#301031) #
As a Bauxite (can't remember who) mentioned recently, it could be argued that the most significant problem for the Jays in 2015 has been player health, not lack of pitching. With the injuries to Stroman, Saunders, Reyes, Navarro, Bautista, Cecil (early on) and now Travis, the Jays have lost a lot of production and flexibility. Some injuries are always expected, but the Jays have been hit particularly hard in the early going this year.
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scottt - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 07:56 PM EDT (#301032) #
In the Ricciardi ERA, the Blue Jays drafted players willing to sign for the slot recommendation--or less.
It's not like AA did so well with first picks Deck McGuire, Tyler Beede and D. J. Davis.

That's not an issue anymore. I bet I could do fine at the draft just by picking the highest ranked player available.



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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:01 PM EDT (#301033) #
nah. the injuries probably tell us that our offense is legit going forward, but they're not really an excuse for the horrific pitching.

TOR: SP Stroman, RF Bautista, Reyes, LF Saunders, C Navarro, IF Izturis, (2B Travis)

TBR: SP Cobb, SP Smyly, SP Moore, RP McGee, RP Beliveau, RP Yates, RP Reifenhauser, C Jaso, 1B Loney, LF Jennings

NYY: SP Tanaka, SP Nova, SP Capuano, SP Whitley, CF Ellsbury, IF Pirela, IF Ryan, IF Petit

BAL: SP Norris, RP Gausman, RP Wright, RP Garcia, C Wieters, SS Hardy, 2B Schoop, OF Lough, IF Cabrera, IF Paredes, IF Flaherty

the only team in the division that's been healthy is the red sox:

BOS: C Hanigan, C Vazquez, Rf Victorino
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scottt - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#301034) #
With the injuries to Stroman, Saunders, Reyes, Navarro, Bautista, Cecil (early on) and now Travis, the Jays have lost a lot of production and flexibility.

Cecil is fine. Travis doesn't count; he's not on the DL. Navarro is as useful on the DL as on the bench. Reyes and Saunders would probably have not ended here have they been iron-men.

So, yes, the injuries to Stroman and Bautista were unexpected, but that's why there is a depth chart.
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jerjapan - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#301035) #
I dunno Scottt, questioning AA's drafting by cherry picking a couple of questionable picks seems a bit weak to me.  sure, deck mcguire in 2010 was a bust, but let's not forget that AA drafted Sanchez, Syndergaard, Asher Woj, Nicolino, Dyson, Sean Nolin and Dalton pompey that year.  that's crazy talent. 

Beede didn't sign in 2011, leaving money for us to get Norris in the second round - a clear steal - and matt dean in the 13th.  musgrove and comer in that draft may not pan out, but AA was able to package them, along with Asher Woj, for Happ, and that deal created value for us.  Desclafani and Dave Rollins went to Miami in the big deal, and Smith Jr. looks to be rising fast.  2011 is a good draft. 

beede not signing also netted us a comp pick in 2012- marcus stroman.  another clear steal with the 22nd pick.  sure, DJ Davis was picked ahead of him and hasn't panned out yet, and while he's better this season than previously, and still only 20, he might never amount to much given his results thus far.  Smoral, Nay and DeJong also came later in that draft, one of the years AA managed to stockpile draft picks with shrewd FA / trade acquisitions who netted draft picks.  not to mention clear steal Anthony Alford in the 3rd round.  This was the year the Jays punted their 4th through 10th picks to get extra money to sign your Alfords, etc.  later round picks Ryan Borucki and Shane Dawson also look good from that draft.  this is potentially a great draft.

2013 could be his weakness, but longshot Kendall Graveman helps offset the fact that most promising players from that group are Boyd, Tellez, Jansen and some injured pitchers. 

Hoffman alone could make 2014 a great draft. 

no offense, but I bet you'd have trouble outdrafting JP, much less AA.







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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:29 PM EDT (#301036) #
first time all year i feel we are getting asignificantly more generous strikezone from the home plate ump.
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greenfrog - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:43 PM EDT (#301037) #
Also, don't forget about AA's successful inroads into Latin America: Osuna, Urena, Castro, Barreto and (reportedly) Vlad Jr., to name a few.

It's not all about the North American draft. Yes, I've been critical of the Jays of passing on all the stellar IFAs in recent years, but I get what AA is doing - investing in premium (but much less expensive) Latino prospects, thereby allowing the organization to pile up more prospects (and trade chips).
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#301038) #
i let hutch face trout here.
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Spifficus - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 08:59 PM EDT (#301039) #
Also, it's not like McGuire was a nobody drafted to cheap-out; he was projected to go around that area in mock drafts. He wasn't a Hayden Simpson unknown. He was probably the best player available at that point, or certainly in the argument for it (*cough* Chris Sale).
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:01 PM EDT (#301040) #
i'd actually let hutch face krauss here too. don't really trust delabar here. if osuna was available, different story.

don't walk him, delabar.
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uglyone - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:03 PM EDT (#301041) #
let me manage already.
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electric carrot - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#301042) #
how do you spell "not getting it done": b-l-u-e j-a-y  p-i-t-c-h-i-n-g
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BlueJayWay - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#301043) #
Was getting a little worried they wouldn't find a way to lose that one. But in the end they pulled through!
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Gerry - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:54 PM EDT (#301044) #
I think Gibby is jinxed. Today he brings in Delabar to face the lefty and he gives up a double. Should he have brought in Loup? Loup last week couldn't get an out with the Jays in prime position. Hendricks gave up two home runs in a close game last week. It seems like the Jays will cough up the lead in a close game unless your name is Osuna or Cecil.
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greenfrog - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#301045) #
I kind of hope the Jays' season is an unmitigated disaster, just to mix things up a bit. Mediocrity is so 1994-2014.
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John Northey - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 10:02 PM EDT (#301046) #
I'm wondering how often a quality start became a non-quality one in Gibbons reign.  That is a sure sign of a manager not knowing when to pull a starter or bringing in the wrong reliever. 
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Mike Green - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 10:29 PM EDT (#301047) #
A club running out an outfield of Valencia,Carrera and Colabello and a middle infield of Goins and Tolleson against a right-handed pitcher isn't exactly putting its best foot forward.
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Mike Green - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 10:30 PM EDT (#301048) #
A club running out an outfield of Valencia,Carrera and Colabello and a middle infield of Goins and Tolleson against a right-handed pitcher isn't exactly putting its best foot forward.
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Doom Service - Wednesday, May 20 2015 @ 11:33 PM EDT (#301049) #
Now 2-8 in one-run games.
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TangledUpInBlue - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 06:43 AM EDT (#301050) #
I bet I could do fine at the draft just by picking the highest ranked player available.

This could very well be true, actually.
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Jevant - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 07:16 AM EDT (#301051) #
Considering Pillar has played in every single game to date, I'm not sure what a better foot would be, with the injuries in the OF presently.
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Chuck - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 07:47 AM EDT (#301052) #
I was at the game last night. Showing off to those I was with, I said Gibbons comes out to get Hutchison here. He did. And he'll be tapping his left arm. He... wasn't. Hmmmm. Is something wrong with Loup? And Delabar is now among the trusted? What the what?
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greenfrog - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 08:00 AM EDT (#301053) #
What I want to know is, what would Mike Babcock have done in that situation?
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Jonny German - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 08:08 AM EDT (#301054) #
I thought Delabar was a strange choice too, until I saw this tweet from Shi Davidi:

"Prior to decisive Marc Krauss AB, lefties had been 0-for-8 with 3 BB in majors and 1-for-21 with 4 BBs in minors versus Steve Delabar."

Delabar has faced a very high ratio of LHH for his career (311 PA vs 380 PA) and has done very well against them (.607 OPS against LHH vs .764 OPS against RHH).
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Jonny German - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 08:11 AM EDT (#301055) #
Your 2015 Toronto Blue Jays page at BB-Ref has the following:

LF Danny Valencia
RF Ezequiel Carrera

Ouch. Hurry back, Dalton Pompey.
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Parker - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 09:20 AM EDT (#301056) #
Do the Jays just kinda figure that any player should be able to effectively man any position to their left on the defensive spectrum? I don't think I can ever remember having so many "WTF is doing at ?!?" moments as a Jays fan before this year, and that includes the "...starting in LF, Dave Berg!" days.

Valencia had never played an inning in the outfield in the majors before he came to Toronto. Then again, his small-sample fielding numbers are outstanding, while "proven" outfielder Colabello continues to impress with his remarkably awful results and makes me wonder if that's how John Olerud would've looked as a corner outfielder.
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uglyone - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#301057) #
"I think Gibby is jinxed."

I truly think these were 2 plain bad decisions.

imo the easy correct call was to leave both SP in to pitch out of a jam in the 7th against bench-quality bats, then bring a RP in to start the 8th inning fresh and clean.

imo gibber overthought it both times, resulting in forcing RP to come in with multiple runners on and in scoring position. the RP actually didn't pitch badly, but they needed to be perfect.

there's no guarantee it would have worked out better, and it could have easily worked out for him, but i'm pretty sure gibby stacked the odds against himself both times.
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uglyone - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#301058) #
"Prior to decisive Marc Krauss AB, lefties had been 0-for-8 with 3 BB in majors and 1-for-21 with 4 BBs in minors versus Steve Delabar."

that's a crapload of walks.
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uglyone - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#301059) #
IMO Valencia looks just fine in the OF. Looks better there than he did at 3b imo.

and as long as carrera is hot no problem with him in there. in fact i might argue he should be the strongside of a CF platoon until pompey is ready.

Colabello is pretty painful to watch out there though.
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Ryan Day - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#301060) #
that's a crapload of walks.

That's just the Steve Delabar Effect: No one can hit him, but you can often wait him out. In that sense, bringing him in with runners on - but not with the bases loaded - makes sense: You want to prevent a hit, which would drive in a run. A walk would be bad, but not terminal.

I dunno. It seems like Gibbons gets burned no matter what he does - neither Loup nor Cecil have been effective vs LHP, so even the "correct" decision has turned out wrong on a regular basis.
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Spifficus - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#301064) #
I agree that Valencia has looked at least passable in the OF. It's a nice bit of versatility that he's added. Given that he can play an adequate 3B and decent 1B, he certainly has a home as a lefty masher on the bench. I just wish there was a LH equivalent on the team. Someone with David DeJesus's profile if he could also play an above average 1B.
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Oceanbound - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 12:15 PM EDT (#301066) #
Interesting new banner. Is EE reacting to how the season has gone so far?
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jerjapan - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 01:13 PM EDT (#301068) #
Agreed, the banner looks good! Thanks to whoever did the work replacing Romero - although his presence did kind of signify how the season has gone so far ...
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jerjapan - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 01:35 PM EDT (#301069) #
Loups been pretty awful this year, and his K/BB ratios have gotten worse every season in the bigs. He has options and I'm starting to wonder if he might get the surprise Delabar demotion. Rob Rassmussen is looking pretty good in AAA and is already on the 40 man.

Who's the next OF up if we need another? Melky Mesa? it's slim pickins with Pompey still struggling in AAA.
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cybercavalier - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#301070) #
Colabello is pretty painful to watch out there though.
Valencia has looked at least passable in the OF.
Who's the next OF up if we need another? Melky Mesa? it's slim pickins with Pompey still struggling in AAA.

How about a LF Valencia, CF Pillar, RF Carrera outfield against RHSP and RF Valencia, CF Pillar against LSHP
How about 2B Colabello against RHSP; Tolleson as defensive sub ?
Next OF up ? Chris Dickerson ?
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TangledUpInBlue - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 06:07 PM EDT (#301072) #
neither Loup nor Cecil have been effective vs LHP, so even the "correct" decision has turned out wrong

It was really a choice of a RHP vs LHB, or a LHP vs. RHB, as the Angels would've pinch-hit against Loup or Cecil. So Gibbons decided to go with Delabar, given his splits.
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Parker - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#301073) #
That new banner does look good!

Hey, um... there isn't any sort of banner curse, is there? I can't remember who else has been up there other than Romero and Doc. Doc was a lousy test case - his superhuman force of will gave him easy immunity to all curses (possibly excepting those involving blood sacrifices.) Being a Batter's Box poster boy sure hasn't worked out so hot for Ricky Ro, though.

When one of my cats pushed my HoF Roberto Alomar and mini Adam Lind bobbleheads off a high ledge, the Jays went on a huge run. Maybe I need to make another sacrifice - the Jays could sure use some good mojo to get a big run started.
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Chuck - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#301074) #
How about 2B Colabello against RHSP

That I would pay money to see.

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Parker - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#301075) #
Hrm. There are a bunch of J.P. Arencibia bobbleheads for sale cheap on eBay. I'd get a huge rush out of destroying a J.P. Arencibia bobblehead though, so I don't think it would qualify as a sacrifice from a technical standpoint.

Seriously though. It's a mark of a good team to have a great record in blowouts, and close game losses are usually regarded as mostly unlucky. Is it possible the Jays have had extraordinarily poor luck in close games so far? I mean, there have been questionable management decisions in some cases, the kind where a "better" decision theoretically could have swung the outcome, but there are also cases of a pitcher not getting the job done in a situation where he normally excels.

Delabar might have walked 4 out of 12 lefties he faced in the minors, but the other 8 made outs - they didn't all hit bases-clearing doubles. If we're even seriously considering a tiny sample of minor league stats to assess Delabar's chances against a lefty, it'd be one thing if he came in and walked in two runs on sixteen pitches - at least then you could point to the brutal walk rate vs. lefties and say I told you so.

The run-scoring has to even out somewhat and give the Jays a little more offensive help in those hateful come-from-ahead losses. Hopefully Gibbons figures out quickly who should be used for what in the pen before it gets too late in the season. Hopefully the Jays even HAVE a pen with enough useful parts to not be a big liability.

I'm still hopeful. I'm following a team that's only one single piddling 12-game winning streak away from being the talk of MLB. Go Jays.
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electric carrot - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#301076) #
and this whole time all we had needed to do was change the banner and our pitching would be decent again ... too bad it took so long ... but thank goodness we figured this out.  Now let's get on with mopping up this division and all prepped for the playoffs. sheeesh!
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scottt - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 09:48 PM EDT (#301077) #
That's just the Steve Delabar Effect: No one can hit him, but you can often wait him out. In that sense, bringing him in with runners on - but not with the bases loaded - makes sense: You want to prevent a hit, which would drive in a run. A walk would be bad, but not terminal.

Opponents OPS against Delabar with bases loaded: .607
Opponents OPS against Delabar with runners on second and third: 1.362

There are things that can't be explained.
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scottt - Thursday, May 21 2015 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#301078) #
Sometimes there's a guy in the pen who excels at stranding runners and who can warm up quickly.
Generally, though, it can't be easy coming up with a runner in scoring position.

I still think it's better to start Thole with Dickey.

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jerjapan - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 06:59 AM EDT (#301079) #
Travis to the DL with shoulder inflammation, Mune up till Reyes comes off the DL Monday.  I do enjoy having Kawasaki around the team due to his energy, but he's hitting a mighty .222 in AAA.
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92-93 - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 07:40 AM EDT (#301080) #
I really like the new banner, though it could have been even better with EE in his chicken-wing stance. The problem is that both players are only under team control for one more season, and if the Jays aren't serious contenders by then it's very likely they are gone.

John Gibbons managed an incredible game last night. He put together a lineup that scored 8 runs, he made his defensive substitutions at an opportune time, and he got 9 solid innings out of his pitching staff. The team looked confident and collected all game, clearly a tribute to their stoic manager.
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Jevant - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 08:25 AM EDT (#301081) #
At least Travis is backdated.  Here's hoping that he can come back quickly.
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James W - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 08:57 AM EDT (#301082) #
I'm not detecting quite enough snark, 92-93. Could we get a little more, please?

In seriousness, your point is absolutely correct. Aaron Rodgers said it best: "R-E-L-A-X"
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Jevant - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#301084) #
Worked for Steve Pearce!
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TangledUpInBlue - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#301086) #
John Gibbons managed an incredible game last night.

Let's not forget Pete Walker. He had the knuckleball dancing last night, and picked up his first complete game victory of the year.
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cybercavalier - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#301087) #
Who's the next OF up if we need another? Melky Mesa? it's slim pickins with Pompey still struggling in AAA.
Mune up till Reyes comes off the DL Monday.  I do enjoy having Kawasaki around the team due to his energy, but he's hitting a mighty .222 in AAA.

Chris Dickerson to Toronto is probably a better idea than Muni. The Jays can then experiment Colabello at 2B until Reyes coming off the DL on Monday.
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Jevant - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#301089) #
Why wouldn't they just go with Goins/Tolleson (with Valencia as backup) rather than Colabello at 2B? 

I assume they want Muni to bat against the RHP this weekend, since Tolleson struggles against them.  Otherwise, I think Dickerson up isn't a bad idea...could platoon him in LF with Valencia (or Colabello, I suppose).

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uglyone - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#301090) #
a series we should have won.
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cybercavalier - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 12:18 PM EDT (#301092) #
Colabello is pretty painful to watch out there though.
Valencia has looked at least passable in the OF.

Re: Jevant,
Dickerson is an LHB OFer and has been hitting better than Muni in Buffalo. Against RHSP, Carrera at RF, Dickerson at LF, Colabello at 2B, Goins at SS. Tolleson as defensive sub. Against LHSP, LF Valencia, SS Tolleson, 2B Colabello, RF Dickerson, Goins as defensive sub. In these ways, Jays can stay Valencia at LF and experiment Colabello at 3B or 2B; eventually Saunders will return and the player who play less defensive position would be sent. Right now, that candidate would be Colabello.

 
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christaylor - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#301093) #
I really hope Gibbons doesn't start Thole with Dickey in inter league play. Dickey would likely out hit Thole.

Is the Muni callup officially announced? I guess the top and bottom of the lineup are already night and day what's one more light hitter?

Pythagoras is really not going to like this team again. What are people's guesses? 5 wins? More? Poor Gibby did his ancestors leak the secret of irrational numbers or something?
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Jevant - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 12:32 PM EDT (#301094) #
I guess I'm not sure sure why we'd think that Colabello could play a passable 2B.  Interesting idea though.  Although Valencia in LF, Tolleson-Colabello MI...wow.  That would be basically punting defence for the hope of offence.
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Thomas - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#301095) #
Chris Colabello has never played an inning at 2B in professional baseball.

I'd like a subscription to your "Chris Colabello is actually a second baseman" newsletter.
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Chuck - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 02:39 PM EDT (#301099) #
experiment Colabello at 3B or 2B

Why? Why? Really, why? I guess my question is this: why?

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hypobole - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#301100) #
In keeping with the outside the box thinking on Colabello, maybe Gibby, with only Osuna as a reliable high leverage arm in his pen, should just grab someone from the opponent's pen if Osuna is unavailable. ;)
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electric carrot - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 03:58 PM EDT (#301101) #
"Yo Alex, it's Gibby, can you make a quick trade for bullpen guy from the Mariners?  Just need him for about an inning and a third -- then trade him right back. I got nobody back here ..."
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uglyone - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#301103) #
Our starting lineup vs. King Felix tonight features all six of

Valencia
Colabello
Pillar
Carrera
Goins
Kawasaki

i might take back what i said about injuries not being a factor.
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scottt - Friday, May 22 2015 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#301104) #
Seattle has 3 hitters below the Mendoza line in their lineup.
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