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Can the futility in the big apple end?  RA Dickey takes on Adam Warren.

Maicer Izturis has abadly swollen ankle, he could be headed to the DL unless it gets a lot better by tomorrow.  This season is starting to resemble last year.  The DL for the Jays includes Bautista, Rasmus, Melky, Johnson, Morrow and a bunch of relievers.  One third of the lineup (45% if Izturis goes on it) and 40% of the rotation are on the DL, the team isn't playing well, and the losses are beginning to mount up. 



Moises Sierra has been recalled but is not in the lineup.  Gose, Pillar and Davis are the outfield. 

The Buffalo Bisons have a shot at the playoffs but now a lot of their players are filling in for the Jays.

As Ryan Day noted in the minor league thread there is a stroy out of Boston about the Sox and John Farrell is quoted in there:

Sox manager John Farrell took questions from an audience at a seminar this week, including one about the difference between the Blue Jays and Red Sox: specifically, whether Farrell had noticed a difference in how the organizations develop pitchers.

............

"We can have a seminar on this question — not just because it's Toronto and Boston," Farrell said. "There are very distinct differences and it starts, I think it starts, at the top. And the reason I say that: I found Toronto to be a scouting-based organization, which to me is on one plane, one-dimensional. You're looking at tools. Here, it's a player-development based system. It's the paths of the individuals that are running the organization. And that's not to be critical.

"We all know that there's three different veins in this game that people advance (through): baseball operations, scouting, player development. Well, in the player-development vein, you're going to look at things in three dimensions: mentally, physically, fundamentally to address and develop people, or develop an organization. I think as a scouting base, you go out and you evaluate the physical tools. And that's kind of where it ends, or that's the look at that time. That was my experience, that was my opinion."

 

That's a typical John Farrell comment, it sounds good, the words fit together, but try and decipher what it means.  It seems to say that Toronto is focused on tools in development while the Sox focus on more than that.  But what the more is I don't understand.

What pitchers have the Red Sox developed recently?  Felix Doubront?  Since Clay Buchholz came to the majors the Sawx have signed Ryan Dempster and John Lackey (because they didn't develop their own) and also picked up Allen Webster in a trade.  Is there any evidence to show that the Red Sox have been better than Toronto in developing pitchers recently?  I don't see it based on a quick review.

Game thread - 8/21 in New York | 31 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
smcs - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 05:39 PM EDT (#278280) #
In just 2013, the Red Sox have 9.4 bWAR from homegrown pitchers (either drafted or signed as an amateur free agent), led by Lester, Doubront and Buchholz (all starters). The Jays have 3.7 bWAR, led by Cecil, Loup and Janssen (all relievers). Looking at just starters, the Red Sox have roughly 7.6 bWAR, the Jays have -0.4.
ayjackson - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#278285) #
Don't look for the substance with Farrell. It's not there.
SK in NJ - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 06:13 PM EDT (#278286) #
Farrell is right on the money, IMO.

This is a manager that had to deal with the likes of JPA, Lawrie, Escobar, Rasmus, etc, in their developmental stages (or shortly after) and had to watch pitchers promoted from Double-A to the Majors without any regard for whether they were ready. Not exactly the epitome of strong character guys and polished pitchers. Even if Farrell wanted JPA, Lawrie, etc, to change and make adjustments, would they listen? Even if Farrell felt Alvarez was rushed to the big leagues and didn't have an out pitch, would it have prevented it from happening?

There is definitely a player development issue in Toronto with Alex A. at the helm. I don't care who says it. Could be Farrell or anyone else. Acknowledging the problem and fixing it are more important.
BlueJayWay - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#278287) #
Agreed.  What Farrell said here shouldn't be surprising.
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 06:57 PM EDT (#278288) #
Wasn't Farrell the one who wanted Lawrie to make the team out of spring training in 2011? He didn't seem too concerned about refining Lawrie's development then.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 07:43 PM EDT (#278291) #
Farell has a big mouth. His team's at .500 over its last 40gms, and have already been caught by one team. He should worry about his own overachieving team.
Wildrose - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 07:44 PM EDT (#278292) #
Sportsnet had an article today about Farrell and the differences he has seen between the Jays and Red Sox.

“We can have a seminar on this question — not just because it’s Toronto and Boston,” said Farrell, the Blue Jays manager from 2011-12. “There are very distinct differences and it starts, I think it starts, at the top. And the reason I say that: I found Toronto to be a scouting-based organization, which to me is on one plane, one-dimensional. You’re looking at tools. Here, it’s a player-development based system. It’s the paths of the individuals that are running the organization. And that’s not to be critical.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/farrell-jays-approach-one-dimensional/



Jdog - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#278293) #
A team overachieving is usually looked at as the managers doing. Somehow I don't think you planned on complimenting Farrell on a job well done.
uglyone - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 08:06 PM EDT (#278294) #
a team overachieving is usually due to luck.

uglyone - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#278295) #
Yankees Announcer:

"Jays are 56-59 in games not against the Yankess, Yankees are 55-58 in games not against the Jays.....that's remarkable, really"
Gerry - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#278296) #
Hey Wildrose, I am guessing you didn't read the game thread.
Ryan Day - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 08:58 PM EDT (#278298) #
I don't know how much Pillar will hit, but by golly it's nice to have a mobile left fielder for a while.
Magpie - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 09:47 PM EDT (#278299) #
Whoa. That just broke the Stupid Meter.
Thomas - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 09:52 PM EDT (#278300) #
Of all of the boneheaded plays I've seen this team make....
greenfrog - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#278301) #
What happened?
Gerry - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 09:57 PM EDT (#278302) #
Davis was picked off at second base with the Jays down 4-2. His run was not important so it was stupid to get picked there.
smcs - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#278303) #
5 thoughts.

1. He was safe
2. That doesn't really matter. His run was utterly meaningless. He should have been 2 feet off of 2nd base.
3. Mo balked. His front knee moved first.
4. See point 2.
5. That's the 1st time Mo has picked someone off at 2nd base. His other 5 were at 1st base.

Wildrose - Wednesday, August 21 2013 @ 11:49 PM EDT (#278304) #
Sorry Gerry, I didn't see the bit about Farrell. I do think he is right about the Jays being a team primarily interested in scouting for tools , although he does a poor job of explaining what the Red Sox do differently.
King Ryan - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 12:31 AM EDT (#278305) #
With that loss, the Blue Jays now have a worse win% than they did last year.

Just, you know, for perspective.
Thomas - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 12:47 AM EDT (#278306) #
In all likelihood another Blue Jays draftee will make his major league debut this month.

Shi Davidi is reporting Ryan Goins will be called up for tomorrow's game to replace Izturis, who is going on the DL.
smcs - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 01:16 AM EDT (#278307) #
At this point, the September call-ups will just be guys returning from the DL.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 05:02 AM EDT (#278308) #
Picking out who we should keep has gotten easier as Season continues. Players who are big time MLB talent are:
Edwin Encarnacion, Jose Reyes, Brett Lawrie.
Colby Rasmus, Jose Bautista. (trade asset).
No other hitter makes the grade and as such should be traded or replaced.
R.A. Dickey, Mark Buehrle.
Maybe:
Brett Cecil, Steve Delabar.
No other pitcher makes the grade and as such should be traded or replaced.
Magpie - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 05:54 AM EDT (#278309) #
Aaron Loup is the youngest pitcher to do regular duty in the bullpen this season. He's also pitched more than any other reliever on the team, and he's pitched better than any other reliever on the team.

Still, I don't think Gibbons has used Loup in the most optimal fashion. He's had four LHP in his pen: Oliver, Perez, Loup, and Cecil. Two of those guys (Oliver and Perez) have not had big platoon splits in the past (Oliver has had essentially no platoon split at all over his career.) Cecil and Loup, on the other hand, have both had extreme platoon splits, and those same splits have carried on into this season. Which wasn't hard to figure out - I seem to remember telling people in the spring that Loup's natural platoon split would surely assert himself in time. It always does for pitchers who comes at hitters from an extreme angle. Everyone knows that, and surely John Gibbons knows it too.

Cecil has been protected from RHB, who have faced him in just 50.8 of the Plate Appearances against him. Perez and Oliver have faced RHB in 61% of the Plate Appearances (Perez had no platoon split this year, Oliver has of course had a huge reverse split.) And Loup, the exact same type of pitcher as Cecil with a huge platoon split, has faced RHB in 64.1% of his Plate Appearances. They've roughed him up, just as they have Cecil, but overall he's been the team's best reliever anyway.
92-93 - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 09:05 AM EDT (#278310) #
"3. Mo balked. His front knee moved first."

So? I was always taught that unless your front knee breaks the invisible plane of your back one, you're in the clear. I didn't see a balk.
Moe - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#278316) #
"No other [hitter/pitcher] makes the grade and as such should be traded or replaced."

And the Jays will get a lot of assets for them and have assets/money to upgrade at all these positions? Take Morrow for example. The Jays won't get a ton for him so they should hold on to him and hope for a bounce-back. There are also no FA pitchers available that are much better than Morrow, especially not for the 2/18 which they owe Morrow.
Magpie - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 01:21 PM EDT (#278327) #
Mo balked

The relevant portion of the rule reads:

From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without alteration or interruption.

You would have to interpret that last sentence very broadly to call a balk on Rivera. Rivera's natural motion to the plate - with runners on base - involves a decisive leg lift. The natural bending of his front leg as he steps off the rubber and whirls to throw to the base is something else.
JB21 - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 05:53 PM EDT (#278339) #
Of all the moves that AA has made during his tenure the one move that makes me think "Does he know what he's doing?" is moving Lawrie from 3B. Maybe it's just me but to me he looks like the best defensive third baseman in the league.
BlueJayWay - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 06:08 PM EDT (#278340) #
For me, that move was trading Napoli for Francisco.  Couldn't believe it when I heard it.
Thomas - Thursday, August 22 2013 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#278341) #

Both Adrian Beltre and Manny Machado would like a word, but there is no denying he's clearly well above average there.

 

On another note, Wang was scratched from his scheduled start for Buffalo today and Bisons manager Marty Brown said it wasn't his decision. Speculation appears to be that he's headed to Toronto.

James W - Friday, August 23 2013 @ 09:38 AM EDT (#278353) #
They need somebody to start Saturday's game, because of the Tuesday doubleheader.
92-93 - Friday, August 23 2013 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#278355) #
"For me, that move was trading Napoli for Francisco. Couldn't believe it when I heard it."

You couldn't believe AA wanted to open up the C position to see what he had in Arencibia, and in the process pick up a potential Type A reliever for a guy the Angels had just dumped for nothing? I continue to not understand the problem people had with that trade.
Game thread - 8/21 in New York | 31 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.