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Lefty Derek Holland (5-3, 3.11) is on the hill for the Rangers. Toronto starts Chien-Ming Wang (0-0, 6.14), who hopes to rediscover the groove from his Yankees days. Wang goes today instead of Josh Johnson. He will hopefully pitch against Colorado tomorrow and be sufficiently recovered from his blister. You have not been smoking a doozie or a spliff is you thought Johnson was supposed to pitch yesterday or today.

@BlueJays: Today's @BlueJays lineup: Cabrera-LF Bautista-DH Encarnacion-3B Lind-1B DeRosa-2B Davis-RF Rasmus-CF Arencibia-C Izturis-SS
Game Thread — 6/16 @ Texas | 59 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
John Northey - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 12:46 PM EDT (#274248) #
Should be interesting to see if Wang is good today.  He had just one bad inning last time, but still got 7+ IP.  B-R game preview is funny, Wang's last 7 starts goes back to 2011, his last 5 vs Texas goes from 2006 to 2009. 

So who is available in the pen?
2+ days of rest: Delabar, Janssen, Perez
1 day of rest: Loup (12 pitches), Oliver (8 pitches)
0 days of rest: Cecil (12 pitches), McGowan (15 pitches), Wagner (14 pitches)

The 3 from last night will only be used if extra innings I suspect, as the other 5 have been fairly reliable and odds are Delabar and Janssen will be guys Gibbons wants to get into the game today.  1 inning each for the guys with 2+ days and you just need 6 out of Wang.  Lets hope for the best eh?

Magpie - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#274249) #
Today, of course, is a day of Weighty Cultural Significance at my house. It's Bloomsday, of course - James Joyce set an enormous novel on June 16 1904, in fond remembrance of the first time he went out walking (quaint phrase of the day) with his future wife. On this day in 1965, Bob Dylan recorded "Like a Rolling Stone" - I did a post about that once upon a time. But that's nothing - Greil Marcus wrote an entire book about the session.

And on this day in 1971, Tupac Shakur was born. It's hard to imagine a 42 year old Pac, isn't it?
92-93 - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#274250) #
I like what Gibbons is doing with the lineup today. Many will complain about the infield defense with Wang on the mound, but Lind-DeRosa-Izturis-Encarnacion really isn't that much worse than Encarnacion-Bonifacio-Izturis-DeRosa, and the defensive trade off is well worth keeping Lind, Rasmus, and Bautista in the lineup on a day where Jose needs some rest from the field and you've already taken the first 3 games in Texas.

It's just silly that Henry Blanco hits a grand slam in his first game for Seattle. The baseball gods really must hate Toronto.
greenfrog - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#274251) #
The baseball gods help those who help themselves (for example, hitters who swing at strikes and pitchers who throw them). I don't think they pay attention to billy goats, nor do I think Steve Bartman was some sort of deus ex machina.
Hodgie - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 01:55 PM EDT (#274253) #
The Jays have hired Jamie Evans. It may not be biomechanics, but considering they have actually seen tangible results from his program I think this is a very smart and progressive move of their part. It will be interesting to see its effect on the staff over the next couple of seasons.
CeeBee - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#274255) #
Who's Jamie Evans?
smcs - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#274256) #
He designed the heavyball program used by Steve Delabar and Brett Cecil.
Eephus - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#274261) #
What a play by Encarnacion.
CeeBee - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#274262) #
Thanks smcs. And YEAH!!!! what a play by Edwin!
finch - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#274263) #
When Reyes and Lawrie get back what does the batting order look like? I'd go:

Cabrera
Bautista
Encarnacion
Lind
Reyes
Lawrie
Arencibia
Rasmus
Izturis
China fan - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#274264) #
Reyes will certainly be the leadoff hitter when he returns. Question is whether Cabrera hits 2nd or 5th.
Mike Forbes - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 05:04 PM EDT (#274265) #
I'd bat Colby 6th against righties.

Reyes
Bautista
Edwin
Lind
Cabrera
Rasmus
Lawrie
Arencibia
Izturis/Boni
jayBlue - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 05:14 PM EDT (#274267) #
As crazy as it sounds it may make sense to have:
Reyes
Bautista
Lind
Encarnacion
Cabrera
Lawrie
Rasmus
Arencibia
Bonifacio/Izturis
Gives us a more traditional righty/lefty lineup.
CeeBee - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#274268) #
Whoever stole Adam Lind, you can keep him. I quite like his replacement.
China fan - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 05:25 PM EDT (#274269) #
Seven shutout innings for Wang today. I'm hoping that he haunts the Yankees this season, even worse than Overbay and Wells seemed to be haunting the Jays. (Although I notice that Overbay and Wells have returned to career norms now.)
China fan - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:09 PM EDT (#274270) #
Jays now within 5.5 games of the wildcard.
JB21 - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:25 PM EDT (#274271) #
Teams who are 8-2 in their last 10. The Jays, the Padres, and the Royals.

6.5 games back with just 95 left to play.
scottt - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#274272) #
I`d take Wang at career norm.
JB21 - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#274273) #
Oops, that should obviously read 5.5 games back. Yahoo hadn't updated their WC Standings.
BlueJayWay - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:48 PM EDT (#274276) #
Yankees almost blow their game.  Leading 6-0 into the ninth, it was 6-5 and came down to Rivera v Pujols with the bases loaded....and a strike out.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 06:52 PM EDT (#274277) #
On a recent Fan 590 appearance, John Gibbons said, "Reyes bats first followed by Bautista and Encarnacion...". Further talking had Cabrera following Lind to maximize Switch-hitting possibilities.

By the way, how we'll is Colorado playing at this time?
92-93 - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#274278) #
My lineup when healthy would be similar to those of Mike Forbes & jayblue.

Reyes
Bautista
Lind
Encarnacion
Cabrera
Rasmus
Lawrie
C
2B

I like the idea of Lind hitting 3rd because I trust Edwin the most with ducks on the pond, and I'd want separation between my two primary lefties (Lind & Rasmus) so the other team can't just bring in their killy lefty without conceding an AB vs. him to Encarnacion and Melky from his stronger side.

It's unlikely Gibbons breaks up what's been working, though, so Reyes-Bautista-Encarnacion-Lind-Cabrera-Rasmus is what we'll see out of the gate. It'll be interesting to see if Gibbons moves Encarnacion to 3B vs. LHP so he can keep Lind & Rasmus in the lineup while working Rajai Davis in at the same time.
uglyone - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#274279) #
Keepin' it rollin'. nice to see. Getting Reyes, Johnson, and Morrow back soon could really carry us right back into contention, if thinks go right.

My healthy lineup:

1. Reyes
2. Lind
3. Bautista
4. Encarnacion
5. Rasmus
6. Cabrera
7. Lawrie
8. Arencibia
9. random 2B
Mike Green - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#274280) #
Very nice weekend.  Rogers and Wang step up, and the offence led by Rasmus and Lind chugs along. It wasn't just 4 wins- it was 3 lopsided wins and 1 close game.  The Jays have now scored 310 and given up 325.  They've got a chance to hit .500 by the mid-point of the year; they'll have to go 9-5 to do it. 

I doubt that Rogers and Wang will keep performing at this level, but I am more than happy that they are getting the ball rather than some of the pitchers who the club tried in April and May. 



Petey Baseball - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 10:00 PM EDT (#274281) #
No reason to keep Jose Reyes in the minors long. The doubles and the stolen bases show that the agility is back, and a  one has to figure that a high octane player (also a veteran) is not going to need much time to adjust to the speed of the game at the big league level. I hope they activate him by Wednesday, or Friday at the latest.

Here's hoping the defensive maladies that inflicted the National League clubs on the turf this season continue.  
Richard S.S. - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 10:42 PM EDT (#274283) #
The Team needs good Pitching, but it doesn't need very good or great Pitching (which is nice when it happens). Keep your team in games and you'll win a lot of them. The Team needs good Hitting, but it doesn't need very good or great Hitting (that's always acceptable). Hitting well enough wins many games.

Pitchers need to avoid the big inning, those are very hard to recover from. Too many times has back-to-back Batters reached base and nothing happens. That must change.

Right now the Team is pitching as well as or better than their opponents, sometimes just more effectively. That might be who this Team is. Right now this Team is hitting as good as or better than their opponents, sometimes just more effectively. That might be who this Team is. As long as they keep doing this, they will be hard to beat consistently. 13 games remain in June. As hot as this team is, do they reach and/or exceed .500 this month?
Richard S.S. - Sunday, June 16 2013 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#274285) #
One more matter:
Every week for the first five weeks (ending 5 May),Toronto was outscored 117-164, and was 11-21 during that time.
From that time forward (starting 6 May - week 6 on), Toronto has not been outscored in any week, 183-161, going 21-15.

No one really played well in April. Since that time things have gotten better. How this will finish is anyone's guess, but one thing I can tell you is it will be interesting.
uglyone - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 12:17 AM EDT (#274286) #
APR

3.85 runsscored/gm (13th AL)
6.07 runsagainst/gm (13th AL)
.370 win percentage (13th AL)

Everything sucked real bad in April.


MAY

5.00 runsscored/gm (4th AL)
5.32 runsagainst/gm (14th AL)
.464 win percentage (11th AL)

Offense woke up in May, pitching still sucked something fierce. Better team in May but still not very good.


JUN

5.08 runsscored/gm (2nd AL)
3.00 runsagainst/gm (4th AL)
.692 win percentage (2nd AL)

The pitching has woken up in June, while the hitting has stayed awake. Not surprisingly, the Jays have been one of the best teams in baseball as a result.

The question is which level of hitting and pitching we should expect going forward.

They're nowhere near a guarantee to do it, but I'd suggest that this team has the talent to be top-5 offensively and defensively for much of the year, as they have been this month.
China fan - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 08:04 AM EDT (#274287) #
Encarnacion has now played 7 games at 3B this season. Anyone think he should be getting more time at 3B until Lawrie's return? Not every day, but more often than not? It would allow the Jays to make greater use of Davis or DeRosa (at DH or elsewhere) with Lind at 1B. It's not the ideal defensive arrangement, obviously, but it reduces the need for Izturis/Kawasaki/Bonifacio in the lineup. The hitting production gap between Davis/DeRosa versus Izturis/Bonifacio is 180 points of OPS, and it would be smart to look for ways of getting a 180-point boost in OPS in one lineup slot every day.
greenfrog - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#274288) #
No reason to keep Jose Reyes in the minors long.

Brett Lawrie hit 429/500/714 during his two-game rehab before being promoted to the majors, where he hit 209/268/374 in 37 games. I wouldn't rush Reyes.
Mike Green - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 09:09 AM EDT (#274289) #
With lefties going today and Tuesday for Colorado, and Buehrle facing a righty on Wednesday, Gibbons will have an interesting catching call on Wednesday.  If Arencibia continues to hit a bit, I imagine that he'll get the start on Wednesday.  Not that I think that is a good idea...Jimenez' hot hitting is a very positive development, and gives the club a good option in the event of injury.

There is no need to rush Reyes.  His injury was quite serious and you want him to be completely recovered before returning.  Kawasaki has been just fine in a replacement role.

Richard S.S. - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 09:30 AM EDT (#274290) #
People always want players on the DL to return as soon as possible. Let's see how well they play 9 innings over each of 3 days in a row. Then see if they are consistently hitting very well thru 50 ABs.
John Northey - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#274291) #
Well said Richard.  They give guys a 30 day window for rehab games for a reason - it takes more than 1 or 2 games for them to be back.  I could see having a guy play one game, take a day off, then move to 2 games followed by a day off, then 3 games/day off, etc. until it seems like there is no pain and he can move back into the everyday lineup.  Not sure what the idea method would be, but 2 games then back to the majors would not be it.
ayjackson - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:10 AM EDT (#274292) #
Jose Reyes is not Brett Lawrie.
92-93 - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#274293) #
I'd start EE at 3B vs. the majority of LHP until Lawrie returns. Lind has shown he deserves the ABs, and this way you can have both Rajai & Melky in the lineup without removing Rasmus' stable defense from CF. Against righties there isn't much of a reason for EE at 3B unless you're starting both Thole & Arencibia.
Ryan Day - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:16 AM EDT (#274294) #
Gregor Chisolm has a story on the Jays site about Jamie Evans joining the org. Some expected testimonials from Cecil & Delabar, but it also notes that Casey Janssen is starting the weighted ball program as well - not full-tilt at the moment, because he started late, but will focus on it in the offseason. One hopes it might be beneficial to his durability, and just imagine if he manages to increase his velocity a bit.
greenfrog - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#274296) #
Jose Reyes is not Brett Lawrie

You mean, apart from the fact that they've both had significant injury issues, including significant ankle injuries this year on awkward slides into second base?
Mike Green - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:38 AM EDT (#274297) #
I wouldn't have Encarnacion at third base.  I would be worried about both the overall effect of the poorer defence on the pitching and the effect of defensive struggles on Encarnacion's hitting.  As we know, Encarnacion's bat came alive when he was relieved of the burden of playing third base.

Rajai Davis has a role on this team anyway.  Pinch-runner for Lind and the catchers, and caddy for Cabrera/occasional sub for Rasmus. 

92-93 - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:52 AM EDT (#274299) #
I'm not convinced the team is any worse defensively with Encarnacion at 3B, and I'm even less convinced that the occasional poor play defensively will screw with Edwin's head at the plate. What we saw in 2010 from Encarnacion is very different than the player he is today, and I think he's more than confident enough at the plate to shake off a couple of missteps when he's helping out the team at 3B. There's a swagger in Eddie's game now.

And what are we talking about anyway here, 10-12 games vs. a LHP before the All-Star break, after which Lawrie should be able to return? Gibbons will probably mix and match his way there, and I just don't think keeping Rajai on the bench vs. a LHP makes any sense at this point.
eudaimon - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#274301) #
Reyes is a veteran who has proven he can hit and Lawrie is not and has not. I don't think we should rush them but there is a difference between the two players.

It's hard to know the truth of the Encarnacion getting off 3b helping him learn to hit story. I tend to think that while that may have been a factor in his development of a new hitting approach, it might not be important to keep him off 3b now as that approach is now (relatively) set.

92-93 - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 10:55 AM EDT (#274302) #
It's not unreasonable to suggest the team needs to be very cautious bringing back Reyes. It seems like it's the type of injury that can be easily aggravated if you aren't fully recovered, and the last thing the Jays want is to have him coming in and out of the lineup because they didn't have the patience to get him back to 100% before activating him. I don't want to see Hanley's situation with the Dodgers happen to Reyes here.
TangledUpInBlue - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#274303) #
Kawasaki has been just fine in a replacement role.

Yeah, Baseball Reference has him at 1.0 WAR so far this year. (FanGraphs has him at 0.6 -- I thought the two sites had created a common measurement, no?) That's over a little more than a third of a season, so it works out to about 2-3 WAR for a full season. Not bad at all from a true replacement.
greenfrog - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:02 AM EDT (#274304) #
The comp with Lawrie is not to suggest that he and Reyes are the same player. The point is that coming back too early can have detrimental effects. This may have happened with Lawrie last year as well.
John Northey - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:07 AM EDT (#274305) #
I suspect EE's issues at third would be a cumulative effect - if he keeps having issues then eventually it would play with his head and affect other areas.  However, there is no plan to leave him there (anymore than there was for Bautista earlier). 

His splits this year show no real issue...
1B: 263/353/475 sOPS+ 114 (184 PA)
3B: 308/400/654 sOPS+ 184 (30 PA)
DH: 263/326/550 sOPS+ 131 (80 PA)

In his career the figures are...
1B: 270/364/520
3B: 256/334/450
DH: 289/367/528

In 2011 (2012 he had just 1 game at 3B, 2011 all 3 had 89+ PA)...
1B: 305/337/463 sOPS+ 100
3B: 213/287/385 sOPS+ 89
DH: 296/361/494 sOPS+ 123

Clearly best at 1B/DH but most of that has occurred the past 2 seasons.  What is the cause that leads to the effect of good hitting?  I think we are all putting too much weight on 2011 and how his move came when his offense jumped.  I suspect 10-15 games at third won't hurt anything.  With any luck that is all that will be needed, plus maybe 5 games for Bautista there each year too.  Keeps them both stretched out for the position and helps whenever Lawrie is hurt (often).  Ideally we'd have a solid 3B backup but none seem to exist in the system right now.
John Northey - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#274306) #
After 92-93 mentioned the Dodgers and Hanley I thought 'lets see how much he played' and then I saw Yasiel Puig.  Holy cow.  13 games at 22 years old and hitting 479/500/771 for a OPS+ of 251.  Wow.  I remember when he was a amateur free agent, one of the last, and was really hoping the Jays would get him.  I bet right now AA wishes he had too.  $42 mil for 7 years looks like a heck of a bargain now.
92-93 - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:14 AM EDT (#274307) #
In 12 Dodgers games since returning from the DL Hanley has 22 PA. We don't want that happening with Reyes, just wait till he's fully ready.
ayjackson - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:25 AM EDT (#274310) #
"You mean, apart from the fact that they've both had significant injury issues, including significant ankle injuries this year on awkward slides into second base?"

Yes, aside from that, and the fact that they've both had very brief, very successful rehab stints in Dunedin. Reyes is an established elite hitter in this league and Lawrie couldn't be further from same. So we shouldn't expect that Reyes would have any prolonged difficulties if called up in the next few days, just because Lawrie did. Similarities of injuries and brief rehab should not weigh heavily on our expectations.
Oceanbound - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 11:27 AM EDT (#274311) #
"Keep him down until he's fully ready" is a bit meaningless. It's just synonymous with "keep him down for a really long time" since there's no foolproof way to show that he's actually ready.
Lylemcr - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#274315) #

10 days again, I bought a new Jays baseball cap.  And since then,

So, it is not the fact that we are getting good pitching and timely hitting.  It is 100% because of my new good luck cap....  :)

I am just hoping we are above 500 by the all-star break. 

ayjackson - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#274319) #
What's the Jays' record since Lawrie went down?
greenfrog - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#274321) #
"Keep him down until he's fully ready" is a bit meaningless. It's just synonymous with "keep him down for a really long time" since there's no foolproof way to show that he's actually ready

I imagine that the Jays' (and other teams') approach to rehabilitating players is now a bit more sophisticated than this.
92-93 - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#274322) #
10-7
eudaimon - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#274327) #
The team's still got options, what are the odds that Lawrie gets demotedif the team stays hot? It's not like his ABs were particularly impressive up here.
uglyone - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 02:04 PM EDT (#274330) #
It's too bad, because Lawrie was just starting to get a little bit hot at the plate when he got injured.

His Last 13 Games: 53pa, 2hr, 6rbi, 2/2sb, .271/.321/.500/.821
His Last 5 Games: 20pa, 1hr, 3rbi, 2/2sb, .412/.450/.647/1.097
John Northey - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#274333) #
One would think greenfrog yet the Jays did two very odd ones in Romero & Lawrie earlier.  Both seemed to be desperation moves as the team was in trouble both times and really needed a miracle to get back.  Sadly, it would've been better to wait and get them fully healthy first as we saw.

I suspect the Jays felt that simulation games (minor league complex vs short season players) would do the trick for rehab but have seen that doesn't work as well as real game situations.  Players at the pro level just play harder if there is a crowd I suspect, thus can get re-injured easier and can have panic attacks (or whatever Romero had happening) as well.  IIRC the Jays in the glory years would send a guy down to Dunedin for a few, then up to AAA for a few then they'd be back up.  Could be wrong of course as that is an old memory that might be off (it was 20+ years ago...ugh).

John Northey - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#274335) #
An interesting tidbit - Baseball-Reference has something called SRS (simple rating system) which figures in strength of schedule and other stuff to get a score.  Basically, the higher it is the better the team.  Detroit & St Louis are #1 in MLB at 1.3, Miami is last by a mile at -1.7 (-1.1 is next worst for the Mets & Astros).  The Jays are above 500 in this measure at 0.1, barely behind NYY 0.2.  Sadly, the Red Sox are at 1.1 but that also makes sense given they have done a lot better so far this year.  The entire AL East is above 0 while all but one team (Atlanta) is sub-0 in the NL East.  Oakland, with the same record as the Red Sox, is just at 0.6 suggesting they aren't as good as their record indicates.  The Jays 0.1 suggests they should be better than their record.

Yeah, most of us could guess that, but it is nice to see something confirming it.

FYI: leaderboards show the Jays #1 in WAR is Bautista (#8 in the AL) with Lind's 1.8 the second best Jay (28th in the AL) with Rasmus at the same score.  Pitchers are led by Brett Cecil at 1.3 (27th in the AL). 
JohnL - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#274343) #
a day of Weighty Cultural Significance at my house. It's Bloomsday, of course…

Dylan carries more weight for me than Joyce, but it's my birthday and I had the most delicious birthday cake I've ever had last night in a restaurant in Istanbul overlooking the Golden Horn.

Now back to baseball.
China fan - Monday, June 17 2013 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#274345) #
Not to be too pedantic, but yesterday was Bloomsday, no?

The best way to celebrate Bloomsday is to be in Dublin, visit the Martello Tower and join the crowds on the rest of the pilgrimage around town.

Failing that -- a Blue Jays victory is a good way to celebrate it too, somehow.
JohnL - Tuesday, June 18 2013 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#274399) #
Yeah, yesterday was Bloomsday (well now 2 days ago). I was a day late replying to Magpie and a day late replying to this. Online moments are infrequent travelling.

But I did run into someone with a Blue Jays shirt today in Istanbul.
Game Thread — 6/16 @ Texas | 59 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.