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Jose Bautista has left tonight's game with what The Gregor is characterizing as not a break but a "tendon issue," which I'm not sure what that means. The Yankees broadcasters were apparently speculating that he might have broken a hamate bone, but either way, it's pretty terrifying, and if Bautista misses much time it's hard to see how the Jays, even only 2 games out of the Wild Card (but behind 5 other teams) would realistically contend, missing much of their rotation and now their best hitter.


Tuesday Update: Bautista to the 15-day DL with apparently no structural damage; he's optimistic he comes back in 15. Gose up.





Bautista Leaves Game with "Tendon Issue" | 84 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
sam - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 10:33 PM EDT (#260464) #
Is it me or does "tendon issue" sound worse?
uglyone - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#260466) #
Anthony Gose has just been removed from the 51s game in the 2nd inning.

Welcome to Toronto, kiddo.
greenfrog - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#260468) #
Honestly, I just hope he's fully healthy for spring training 2013. Wrist injuries are nasty (and can linger), and that one looked particularly nasty.
Original Ryan - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 10:52 PM EDT (#260470) #
Anthony Gose has just been removed from the 51s game in the 2nd inning.

Farrell will probably stick him in the bullpen as the 9th reliever.

Hodgie - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#260471) #
I was going to make a comment regarding your contention about Bautista being our best pitcher Anders, but since his ERA for the year would be 0.00 it is hard to argue with that.
Chuck - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#260472) #
I think Bautista's ERA is technically #DIV/0!.
Thomas - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:22 PM EDT (#260473) #
Farrell will probably stick him in the bullpen as the 9th reliever.

This wins the thread.

Alex Obal - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:24 PM EDT (#260474) #
He'll pitch to Granderson, Rodriguez and Cano in a tied 7th inning tomorrow (with an eye to using Loup for a lefty PH later in the inning and Oliver in the 8th)
PeteMoss - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#260475) #
Sources say Gose will come up if Bautista goes on the DL. And if he doesn't? Assuming he can't play the next few days but doesn't going on the DL they will play with a 3 person bench and an 8 man bullpen??
Anders - Monday, July 16 2012 @ 11:40 PM EDT (#260477) #
I was going to make a comment regarding your contention about Bautista being our best pitcher Anders, but since his ERA for the year would be 0.00 it is hard to argue with that.

Fixed!

Also, re: Gose, he improves the outfield defense, but he is still obviously very raw at the plate, and I am not sure that this would be my choice of action (which is why they don't pay me the big bucks). I would have liked to see Gose with a chance to get more AAA at bats, with someone like Snider or Thames coming up instead. C'est la vie, I suppose.

85bluejay - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#260479) #
It may be an opportunity to showcase Gose - he's a great trade chip
Magpie - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:23 AM EDT (#260480) #
I wouldn't rule out the hamate bone just yet - X rays often don't detect it. Anyway, a tendon issue would be far preferable. Nick Markakis had surgery to repair his broken hamate at the end of May, and he just got back into the lineup this past Friday. Eric Hinske was out for a month back in 2003.
Oceanbound - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:58 AM EDT (#260481) #
Time missed is probably the least worrisome thing about a broken hamate. It's the sort of injury that can sap power significantly, and recovering that power can take a long time.
TamRa - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:35 AM EDT (#260482) #
I wish SOMEONE would bother to explain to us what they have against Snider. If they have given up on him then trade him already.

Sano - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 03:46 AM EDT (#260483) #
TamRa: They don't have anything against him. AA explained his reasoning in his latest talk on SN590. Said that Snider hasn't really got hot again since he's been back from the DL and that they would prefer him to call him back up here when he's doing well. In light of all the up/down he's gotten over his career, I'm inclined to agree with that approach.
TamRa - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:10 AM EDT (#260486) #
Well, he explained his reasoning in the context of "our offense has been fine so there's no rush" - which is not the same as what we face now, if Bautista is out for several weeks as seems likely.

And he also told Wilner less than a week ago that Gose would spend not only all of 2012 put probably a lot of 2013 in AAA, so if we take him at his word in both cases you still have to wonder why, in light of changing circumstances, you choose Gose?

I've heard the comparisons about their relative stats, but I'm not sure I buy it. That calculation saddles Snider with a handful of games at the begining of May as the decision maker.

His stats since coming off the DL are better than Gose's stats since April.

If the decision is "who's hot" - Snider's July is slightly better than Gose's

His June is much better than Gose's

And AA is on record saying Snider was rushed, so applying that lesson ought give you pause about promoting the 21 year old instead of the 24 year old.

There has to be something in play that doesn't show on the stat sheet.
Oceanbound - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:19 AM EDT (#260488) #
Makes no sense to me. By doing that you're basically telling Snider he can't succeed in the majors unless he's already "hot", whatever that means. That's a real confidence booster. Seems more likely that the front office simply has no belief in Snider.

Never mind the fact that Gose is supposed to get the call, and he obviously still has much to learn. This is a guy whose stats are worse than Snider across the board, yet is deemed hot enough to be parachuted into the majors. Apparently that rule applies only to Snider?
Sano - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 06:38 AM EDT (#260491) #
You make good points TamRa. I think it's fair to say that because of Snider's history of being sent up/down and his past history of failure at the MLB level, the org treats him a little differently than Gose. Perhaps with Gose there's a little bit more of a "let's see what he can do" type of attitude. Whereas with Snider it's much more cautious, trying to ensure that when he comes back up, it's for good. It's pretty clear to me that decisions about Snider stopped being based purely on stats a long time ago. It's largely mental and mechanical now.
Richard S.S. - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#260495) #
Bautista's injury will not matter if A.A.'s acquisitions are controllable. He will probably get one short term arm anyway because injuries shouldn't be an excuse, just incentive to get better.

Gose's call-up may be aborted if the Team make the unwise decision not to DL Bautista. He is likely to handle it better than Snider. Hose is an exciting hot prospect; Snider is "been there, done that".
Magpie - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 09:23 AM EDT (#260496) #
I suspect - I certainly don't know - that at this point, they think they just need a temporary fill-in, who will be going back to Las Vegas in two weeks. They may not want to do that with Snider. If Bautista were to be gone for four to six weeks, it might be a different story.

But nobody knows anything.
Hodgie - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 09:55 AM EDT (#260498) #
Anthopoulos has stated a couple of times now that when Snider is recalled it will be for good. With this move it would appear that they do not believe that Bautista will out that long and do not want to use Snider as a short term injury replacement. Whether you agree with that approach is another matter, but based on Anthopoulos' prior comments it is not surprising.
MatO - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#260499) #

Gose should be OK against RHP but he'll make even Adam Lind look good, in comparison, against LHP.

I've lost count as to how many times I've just shook my head at the computer as a result of this year's roster manipulations.

timpinder - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#260501) #

It's all speculation until a move is made.  Perhaps Gose was removed because he's just been traded and he's on his way to Arizona for a physical.  But count me as someone who thinks Snider, not Gose, should get the call if that was in fact the reason for Gose's removal from the game.

As for "tendon issues", as someone who has suffered three broken bones, a sprained tendon and who is currently in month 3 of recovery from a severed tendon surgery, I'd take three broken bones over a major tendon issue any day!  The recovery time, in my experience, is much longer and the lingering soreness, stiffness and weakness is much worse after a tendon injury.  If Bautista tore a tendon surgery expect 1.5 months of immobalization, 3 months before he can lift heavy weights or swing a bat, and another month or two after that before he's back to full strength.

ayjackson - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:27 AM EDT (#260502) #
Snider has one extra base in his last ten games.  It seems clear to me that he's still feeling the effects of the wrist injury.  I'm not sure there is a good option right now.
MatO - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:44 AM EDT (#260504) #
Snider has one extra base in his last ten games. It seems clear to me that he's still feeling the effects of the wrist injury. I'm not sure there is a good option right now. Yeah.  A guy with an OBP of .476 over the last 10 games wouldn't mesh well with team pholosophy.
Lylemcr - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:45 AM EDT (#260505) #

Snider has no options left I thought.  If they bring him up and he faulters, what do they do then?  Trade him for a bucket of balls?

In AAA, his shine will be there and his trade value will be up.

I am not sure I agree with Gose though.  I thought it would be Gomes or Sierra.  With Gose, Davis and rasmus, there are not going to be many flyballs hitting the turf.

85bluejay - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#260507) #
I have no complaints about the jays handling of Snider this year - While we get to see the box score, I defer to the organisation talent evaluators - I suspect Snider will be up before September to sink or swim - that's if he doesn't hurt his wrist again.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#260508) #
If they bring him up and he faulters

Be careful.  This might provoke a laugh among one or two Bauxites or it might be the thing that causes a cardiovascular accident. 

The spell-checker is your friend. 
James W - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:53 AM EDT (#260509) #
Options last all year. The Blue Jays are using Snider's final option year this season. They are free to send him down as often as they'd like this season, but have said that when they call him up, they don't intend to send him down again.
Oceanbound - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 11:16 AM EDT (#260511) #
They wouldn't need to send down the replacement player if they didn't insist on hauling around this bloated pen, half of whose members the manager is scared to use.
Thomas - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#260513) #
They wouldn't need to send down the replacement player if they didn't insist on hauling around this bloated pen, half of whose members the manager is scared to use.

You mean the two batters Sam Dyson has pitched to since July 4 haven't rendered him an integral member member of the bullpen yet?

To be fair, I guess the 8th member of the bullpen is being carried around for games like tonight's, where Cecil is facing the Yankees and could be out of the game by the 2nd or 3rd inning. That doesn't justify it in my mind, particualrly given how well Villanueva and Laffey have been pitching.

92-93 - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#260515) #
I can't believe Gose is even being considered for a call-up if Bautista needs to hit the DL. He's got an .800 OPS in Vegas and isn't needed to play CF. How does it make any sense whatsoever to start his service time clock when the team's death warrant is basically signed with Bautista going down? AA really needs to stop plugging holes with rushed prospects. He did it with Alvarez & Hutchison and he's doing it again here, all while mentioning at every opportunity that his predecessor rushed Snider to the big leagues.
scottt - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#260518) #
Snider has no trade value. If Gose plays in the MLB, a lot of scouts will watch.
92-93 - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:05 PM EDT (#260521) #
Teams have way more pro scouts than MLB ones. I don't understand this idea that you can showcase a player by calling him up to the majors, and I think it's entirely a media creation. I can't imagine MLB teams are that dumb that they read very much into minute MLB sample sizes of a kid's first go round in the bigs.
Gerry - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#260522) #

We don't know, and possibly never will know, if there is some other psychological aspect to Gose's promotion.

Could the Jays be rewarding him for something he has done or for the progress he has made?  By all accounts he has worked hard to alter his swing after the Jays acquired him.

Could it be a way of the Jays showing Gose what else he needs to learn to do in AAA in order to succeed in the big leagues?

Could it be that Gose is now cruising, thinking he is major league ready, and the team want's to show him he isn't?

Could it be that the front office is worried that the team might let down over Bautista's injury and Gose might inject some energy, as Lawrie did when he was first called up?

Could it be that the Jays needed to look at Gose anyway before the off-season to see what they can count on, if anything, for 2013?  The extra two weeks or so wight not be a big difference from that.

And of course there are the showcase arguments.

I wonder if they will hold him back from facing CC in his first game.

 

hypobole - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:36 PM EDT (#260526) #
Interesting, Gerry, although you're straying from the "I know better than the Blue Jays organization" narrative.

Per Davidi - Bautista on the DL, Morrow moved to 60 day, Gose up.
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#260529) #
Just a guess, but I imagine the OF will be Davis/Rasmus/Francisco against CC, with Gose likely getting the start tomorrow against Kuroda.
Oceanbound - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#260530) #
This site would be a pretty boring place to visit if everyone just trusted the organization's judgement and agreed that everything they do is right, hypobole. We ought to be able to debate the front office's decisions. Of course they have reasons for everything they do. Doesn't mean that the decisions are necessarily the right ones. Even AA doesn't know for sure.
Magpie - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#260532) #
I don't understand this idea that you can showcase a player by calling him up to the majors

Oh, in-deed! Especially seeing as how there's a decent chance that said player will struggle mightily upon being called up.

[Anthopoulos] mentioning at every opportunity that his predecessor rushed Snider to the big leagues.

I've certainly noticed Anthopoulos speaking about the up-down, stop-start pattern of Snider's career, but did he actually talk specifically about him being rushed? (It's possible that having beaten that drum incessantly and ad neauseum my own self since the Ricciardi days, any similar musings by anyone else simply haven't quite penetrated my Mental Fog.)

Bautista's condition is described as "inflammation," which is interesting. To me anyway. Inflammation isn't an injury. It's the body's response to an injury. Bautista said he heard or felt a pop - one wonders if the wrist tendon was strained or stretched over one of the little bones in the wrist. Maybe not on the swing, but on the recoil after the swing - his bat, by now held only in his left hand, having come right around to the point where it's almost touching the ground behind him, is whipped back up by his left wrist. Which rebelled. Then the tendon instantly slides back into proper alignment, leaving nothing behind but... inflammation! Pain and discomfort.

Like I have even a clue...

Anyway, if the injury truly is short-term - and it does look that way for the moment - I can see the point of leaving Thames and Snider where they are. They're working on stuff. Meanwhile Gose gets to travel on some charter planes, stay in some nice hotels, and look at some major league breaking balls. A little bit of "what you need to do, and why you want to do it."
hypobole - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:30 PM EDT (#260533) #
"This site would be a pretty boring place to visit if everyone just trusted the organization's judgement and agreed that everything they do is right"

True, it would be boring (although I could do without the "see how wrong you were" jabs followed by the inevitable multiple half page replies). However, too often it seems people don't question moves as much as claim the moves are flat out wrong. I may be in the minority, but I find that inflated and tiresome.
Chuck - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#260534) #

Meanwhile Gose gets to travel on some charter planes, stay in some nice hotels, and look at some major league breaking balls.

And the women have long legs and brains.

uglyone - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:33 PM EDT (#260535) #
I think there's little downside to a Gose callup at this point. He's 21 years old, in his first AAA season, and is expected to be sent back down for more AAA seasoning at some point no matter how he performs in his first cup of coffee in the bigs - good or bad.

Calling up a guy like Snider or Thames, though, is a different story. They're getting to the point where their next call up might just be their last chance to stick.....them failing in their next callup might be disastrous, so you better make sure they're swinging the bat well and feeling good at the plate when you do call them up.
ayjackson - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:38 PM EDT (#260537) #
A Snider recall would be more appealing if one felt that Farrell would send an arm back down to the minors when Bautista returns.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#260538) #
Concur.  These decisions (bullpen vs. position player roster makeup and Snider vs. Gose) are inter-related. 
John Northey - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#260541) #
Lots to debate with Gose coming up - doesn't mean we know better than the GM or less, just lots to think about.
  1. Are they showcasing him to let other ML teams know the kid is ready? 
  2. Are they showing Gose what being a ML'er is about?  Sometimes a kid when he first comes up is overwhelmed and if this year is a write off then it is best to get the 'oh my god I'm in the bigs' over with
  3. They feel Gose is ready and it is time
I suspect #2 is the top reason.
MatO - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 02:01 PM EDT (#260542) #
A logical choice to be sent down would be Dyson since Farrell isn't using him and he needs to pitch but if you send him down you burn an option for no good reason.
hypobole - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 02:03 PM EDT (#260543) #
Couple of interesting points in the latest Buster Olney Insider piece, referenced by MLBTR

Teams that have no or little chance of winning their division outright seem to be very hesitant of giving up assets in trades since even if they do grab a wild card spot, it may not even bring them one home game.

The other point is the draft pool money teams have to spend may be more important than the picks themselves. Haven't completely wrapped my head around that, but this year, with no concensus #1, Astro's seemed to go for the cheapest option of similar talents, leaving themselves with a sizable amount of cash to throw at hard to sign talents.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/07/olney-on-marlins-rays-upton.html
Magpie - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#260545) #
Barry Davis just tweeted:

In his last 8 starts vs #bluejays, Sabathia is 7-0 with 2.73 ERA. The current Jays roster is hitting a collective .174 wth 0 hrs vs CC

Call me crazy, but doesn't it sounds like Guaranteed Win Night? The Law of Large Numbers, the Gods of Regression-to-the-Mean, will be with us!
PeteMoss - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#260546) #
It could be very ugly, very quickly tonight with Cecil pitching. If he gets lambasted I wonder if Shawn Hill will be given another shot.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 03:02 PM EDT (#260547) #
Call me crazy, but doesn't it sounds like Guaranteed Win Night? The Law of Large Numbers, the Gods of Regression-to-the-Mean, will be with us!


It could be very ugly, very quickly tonight with Cecil pitching.


Well done, gentlemen.  A nice, unintentional recursive discussion.  My (hypothetical) money is on Cecil +195. 
smcs - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 03:31 PM EDT (#260549) #
Rajai Davis leading off. Oof. I'd rather see Lawrie leading off and Mathis or Arencibia hitting 3rd and just swinging as hard as they can at every fastball.
scottt - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 03:49 PM EDT (#260551) #
The lineup is posted somewhere?

I figure Gose will hit 9th and Davis 8th or 1st to keep the speed concentrated.

Chuck - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 03:56 PM EDT (#260553) #

Call me crazy, but doesn't it sounds like Guaranteed Win Night? The Law of Large Numbers, the Gods of Regression-to-the-Mean, will be with us!

Sure, they're due. Isn't that the exact formula for going broke as a gambler?

smcs - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#260555) #
It's on twitter. Per John Lott: Davis 7 - Rasmus 8 - Lawrie 5 - Encarnacion 3 - Lind 0 - Escobar 6 - Francisco 9 - Johnson 4 - Mathis 2.

Keeping Gose away from Sabathia is probably a good idea; I'd say Lind would be a slightly better option.
Alex Obal - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#260557) #
Teams' official Twitter pages tend to post starting lineups really early. The url for most teams is twitter.com/teamname.

Jayson Nix starts at third for the Yankees tonight and bats eighth. That should be fun.

Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#260558) #
Rajai Davis leading off. Oof. I'd rather see Lawrie leading off and Mathis or Arencibia hitting 3rd and just swinging as hard as they can at every fastball.

I don't mind Davis leading off against a LHP, but I wouldn't want to see Mathis or Arencibia anywhere near the heart of the order.  Lawrie would be my choice for the 3 slot against LHP right now.
Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:15 PM EDT (#260560) #
That isn't a bad lineup, although I would switch Francisco and Lind in the batting order. 
Alex Obal - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#260563) #
You be the manager:

Top of the 7th. Yankees lead 7-4. All 9 Jays starters remain in the game. Yankees have burned Sabathia and reliever D.J. Mitchell. Boone Logan pitching. Bases loaded. Two out. Kelly Johnson rips a two-run ground-rule double to cut the Yankees' lead to 7-6. Runners on second and third, two out, Mathis up, Davis on deck.

Girardi calls for righty sidewinder Cody Eppley. You have to pinch-hit Gose if he's present, right? And if so, do you leave him in?

Mike Green - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 04:54 PM EDT (#260564) #
Love the question, Alex.  Pinch-hit him and let the Yankees issue the intentional walk.  There are worse ways to start a career.  I leave him in the game, playing right-field.
Alex Obal - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 05:20 PM EDT (#260567) #
I wonder whether they'd pinch Gose for Francisco against Rafael Soriano if it came down to that. Soriano might as well be a sidearmer himself. He doesn't throw a change or curve, and he can fall dangerously in love with the get-me-over slider to lefties. Pinch-hitting Gose would almost certainly be the move that puts the team in the best position to win. But I suspect the Jays might effectively have a 2.5-man bench tonight.

I would've just started Gose, to be honest, and one reason would be to dodge these scenarios.

Anders - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 05:34 PM EDT (#260568) #
It's on twitter. Per John Lott: Davis 7 - Rasmus 8 - Lawrie 5 - Encarnacion 3 - Lind 0 - Escobar 6 - Francisco 9 - Johnson 4 - Mathis 2.

Called it, Obal.
Alex Obal - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 05:43 PM EDT (#260569) #
I think everyone saw that coming.
Sano - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#260572) #
Just thought I'd throw this into the mix. Per Farrell via Davidi.

Farrell on Gose over Snider: "it was the clear recommendation of the staff there + the people that have gone through LV for Anthony be here"

Ouch. What does THAT mean?
greenfrog - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 06:56 PM EDT (#260575) #
I like to think of that comment as glass-half-full. In other words, that Gose is doing great and that among the LV outfielders, he's the best bet to excel in the majors (and/or benefit the most from being promoted).

It may well be that Gose has passed Snider and Thames on the OF depth chart. Who knows - by this time next year, Marisnick may have passed them too. But I hope Snider and Thames go on to have productive major-league careers somewhere, if not in Toronto.

John Northey - Tuesday, July 17 2012 @ 10:47 PM EDT (#260577) #
Well, Gose getting a hit tonight does provide a positive element.
92-93 - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 12:14 AM EDT (#260581) #
A good way to start this post is to remind people that I'm the guy who argued that the Blue Jays were a better team coming out of camp with a Rasmus/Gose/Bautista outfield over a Thames/Rasmus/Bautista one once it was announced that the LF job belonged to Thames. So I'm clearly very high on Gose and his abilities, and nothing that happened over the first half suggests to me that I was wrong. However, it was obvious that 2012 was more of a developmental year than one of contention and the best way to set yourself up for future success was to allow Gose to stew in the minors (sorry Dewey).

I was able to accept that, but I started to question the consistentcy of the philosophy when Hutchison, who clearly wasn't ready for the major leagues, got rushed up to fill a hole in the rotation. Now, someone is going to look at his results and say "what do you mean he wasn't ready?". That's silly. Hutchison had made 6 starts above A ball for a grand total of 30 innings. The two go-to prospect guys, Law & Goldstein, both thought the call-up was premature, as Hutchison was essentially still a 2 pitch pitcher relying on command to get hitters out, a formula that requires tremendous precision at the major league level. Young players often have success in their first go round around the league until teams have sufficient video to begin exploiting his weaknesses. I'll go as far as to say that Hutchison's spike in velocity may have been a result of him trying too hard to get MLB hitters out because he was unprepared, and his injury could very well be a result of the higher stress being put on his baby arm. Of course this wasn't the first time AA had fast-tracked an arm to the majors when the team had little hope of contention - he did the same thing last year with Henderson Alvarez, who had no breaking ball to speak of when he came up the majors and was relying heavily on the sink of his fastball and the change of speeds on the changeup to get hitters out.

So let's get back to Gose. AA's offseason (and inseason) activity certainly didn't suggest that he was trying to contend in 2012. If he wasn't fully ready for the major leagues at the beginning of the year, it made sense to have him down in AAA learning how to control the strike zone better. In fact, AA was dropping hints to the writers that Gose may spend parts of 2013 in Vegas as well. Here's Wilner from a few days ago - "I said there was an almost zero chance of Gose coming up because 4 days ago, AA insinuated Gose would be in LV all year and maybe next."

Therefore, when I see Gose being called up to replace Bautista, I'm left scratching my head. With a decimated rotation and possibly the best hitter in the AL out for awhile it seems near impossible for the Jays to be contenders this year. Why bring him up? If it's because he was ready all along and was just waiting for an open spot, why was AA dropping hints that he needs more time? And why wasn't he called up when Rajai Davis has been giving the team next to nothing vs. RHP for over a month now? How does this look like anything but a reactionary move to the Bautista injury as opposed to what's best for Anthony Gose? If you're going to tell me that rushing prospects like Alvarez, Hutchison, and Gose helps the team compete in 2013 and beyond by getting their feet wet and that it's worth the trade off of starting their service time clock early (and potentially burning options), it shouldn't have taken a Bautista injury to get this party started.

I look forward to watching Gose the rest of the season, and will be rooting for nothing but the best from him. I still don't like this move, and it seems obvious to me that it's being made because Bautista got injured, and not because it's the best thing for Gose's development. Furthermore, if Gose isn't being used in CF, it makes even less sense. Prospect hounds seem to agree that Hechavarria has very little bat at this time, but he, as well as Gomes, Snider, Thames, Cooper, and Sierra, are all hitting better than Gose at Vegas. And don't get me wrong, I think it would be even worse to be moving the mentally-fragile Rasmus off CF short-term for a prospect, so I'm left wondering what the heck the impetus was for calling Gose up to play RF when the team could easily have gone with any of the other options.

As for this idea that the front office always has its motives and way more knowledge on hand, come on. We all know that's true. AA isn't making decisions to spite the fans. He's doing whatever he and his management team think is best for the organization. That doesn't mean we can't criticize, and the people reading absolutes from those who criticize really aren't paying close attention to what's being said. It's hard to qualify most of my statements with more "I think", "it appears to me", and "in my opinions"s, and people just read what they want to read at this point. Rany Jazayerli of Baseball Prospectus got into a conversation with Kevin Goldstein tonight on Twitter that I thought highlighted this concept pretty well, as it pertained to the Royals and their handling of Jonathan Sanchez. I suggest checking out his feed @jazayerli, and will leave you with one quote:

"I didn't say they're stupid. I'm saying that all that additional knowledge doesn't prevent teams from making bad decisions."
92-93 - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 01:17 AM EDT (#260583) #
Reading this quote from Farrell via John Lott inspires me even less.

"“It’s not a slight on anyone,” Farrell said. “They were asked [for a] recommendation. They said, ‘This is the guy that’s most ready right now.’ That’s not to say that Snider’s not doing something, or [Eric] Thames is not doing something. That was the recommendation.”"

So now unless we're to assume that Farrell isn't being truthful, you can throw out all the ulterior motives for Gose's call-up and make it pretty simple - the team thought Gose was the best way to improve the MLB club.
greenfrog - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 08:58 AM EDT (#260586) #
I'll go as far as to say that Hutchison's spike in velocity may have been a result of him trying too hard to get MLB hitters out because he was unprepared, and his injury could very well be a result of the higher stress being put on his baby arm.

I wondered about this too. After a series of starts in which he was sitting around 89-91, he started regularly hitting 93-95. It seemed odd to me.
Chuck - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#260587) #

So now unless we're to assume that Farrell isn't being truthful

Why would we ever except GMs and managers to be entirely truthful? When they answer questions for the public, rather than internally within the organization, we should expect spin. To not expect it is to be naive. That doesn't mean they are always lying but that they could be lying.

What if the real reasons for Gose's promotion are: 

"Thames' defense is so poor that we don't think he'll ever be a useful major leaguer for us and because of that we're currently looking to trade him". 

"Snider had been hitting well before his injury but we want to see him start hitting again because the next time we bring him up will be the last time, and we want to be sure. We're thinking of that time being the start of the 2013 season". 

"Gose has played well but could stand a little bit of a reality check. We'll expose to him major league pitchers and he'll probably struggle, and that should motivate him to continue working on areas that need improvement".

Oceanbound - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#260590) #
"Snider had been hitting well before his injury but we want to see him start hitting again because the next time we bring him up will be the last time, and we want to be sure. We're thinking of that time being the start of the 2013 season".

Well, they'd have no option but to keep Snider in the majors at that time, as he'd have no, um, options left. I don't think that they want to be forced into making a decision on whether to keep Snider or ditch him without seeing him in the majors at all before then.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 09:49 AM EDT (#260591) #
Or the reasons could be:

"Freakin' Rogers won't pay for Rasmus now that he has got his mojo back, so I am going to have deal him now while his value is at its highest.  I can't wait to get out of here."

My grandmother used to say that honesty was the best policy, but wasn't above shovelling food onto her children's plates behind their backs in order to put meat on their bones. 



Chuck - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 10:07 AM EDT (#260592) #

Well, they'd have no option but to keep Snider in the majors at that time, as he'd have no, um, options left..

Thanks, um, I know.

Oceanbound - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#260593) #
Sheesh, I wasn't having a dig at you. I'd realized that I had already written "no option" at the start of the sentence. I should stop trying to makes funnies :(
rtcaino - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#260595) #
His option was burned at the start of the season and lasts all season.

They could call him up and send him down - but they have stated they would not like to do so.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 11:05 AM EDT (#260598) #
Why would Snider not be recalled when rosters expand this September?
James W - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 11:44 AM EDT (#260604) #
Oceanbound is referring to the 2013 season, when Snider will be out of options.
hypobole - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#260605) #
I was referring to Chucks comment:

"Snider had been hitting well before his injury but we want to see him start hitting again because the next time we bring him up will be the last time, and we want to be sure. We're thinking of that time being the start of the 2013 season".
hypobole - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#260606) #
The Competitive Balance Lottery takes place today. The ten smallest-market teams and the ten lowest-revenue teams get a chance at 6 extra picks between the 1st and 2nd rounds in next years draft.

Comparing the eligible teams vs the 10 teams with the lowest MLB payrolls, only 2 low spending teams aren't in the lottery - the rebuilding Houston Astros and, you guessed it, the Toronto Blue Jays.
bpoz - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#260609) #
The promotion of Gose is questionable and many have responded that way. Most possibilities have been mentioned.
This promotion also creates questions about the decision making of AA. IMO AA's choices were Snider, Thames, Sierra & Gose as OF call ups in the whole minor league system.

My opinion. None of them were smashing down the door from what I could see. I think 450ABs is enough to be considered a full season. Snider 203AB & Thames 149AB at AAA is too little especially with the injuries to Snider, so 200 more ABs at AAA is OK with me. Sierra 332AB & Gose 377AB at AAA was enough for me to consider them but eliminate Snider & Thames until Sept.

I think it is very hard to say a GM made a mistake ie he was wrong. For example Seattle chose J Clement with the 3rd pick in 2005, was that wrong. IMO since they had multiple good choices to consider, the only error I can see is saying that they discount the lesser tools in favor of the position of catcher when comparing the other choices. I like to have 2 examples but cannot think of another "I cannot say this is definitely wrong" example.

However with 46 days left before Sept 1st, I will definitely think AA made a mistake if he burns one of Gose's options. send him back for 19 days max, and save the option that may be needed in the near future.
Also 2 things that really bugs me to this day is how Brad Mills gets to go up and down for LAA when he seemed to burn an option in 2009 (2 games Vs Phillies), 2010 & 2011. And the 2nd thing is that nobody knows the answer to this.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 03:16 PM EDT (#260630) #
I think it is very hard to say a GM made a mistake ie he was wrong.

True dat. Maybe we could hear from the 23 GMs - that would be twenty-three - who chose some other guy instead of Mike Trout back in June 2009. (I guess we can cut Mike Rizzo some slack. But no one else!)

Well, in all fairness... nobody knows anything.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#260631) #
Magpie, you are way too kind.  What about all those General Managers who passed over Albert Pujols 12 times, and picked players instead who frankly were clearly organizational soldiers?  Albert was already a star in the major leagues less than 2 years after draft day. 
hypobole - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 03:43 PM EDT (#260633) #
I remember 92-93 taking umbrage with someone stating AA convinced Regins to trade for Wells, pointing out it was far more likely Regins asked AA about Wells and they simply worked out a deal.

We give too much credit to GM's on some issues and too much blame on others.

I would guess a number of GM's in the league don't even make their 1st round picks. No GM makes 12 rounds worth; that's why they have scouting directors.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#260635) #
And the hits keep coming - lets hope Lawrie is OK tomorrow and it isn't a major issue.  Sigh.  How long until all of Vegas gets to play in Toronto?
hypobole - Wednesday, July 18 2012 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#260638) #
"How long until all of Vegas gets to play in Toronto?"

By my count, 6 position players and 10 pitchers have played for both the Jays and 51's this year, and I can't recall even 1 being a rehab assignment. Then there's also the direct pitcher pipeline from NH to TO.
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