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Brett Cecil beat Bear Bay and the Tuscon Padres easily last night.  Cecil pitched well by Las Vegas standards, average by major league standards.  Jesse Hernandez of the Lugnuts took a no hitter into the eighth and completed a one hitter but lost the game. New Hampshire lost a close one and Dunedin were badly beaten.  As usual Las Vegas had a number of strong hitting performances including home runs from Travis d'Arnaud, Moises Sierra and Adam Lind.

Tucson 3  Las Vegas 9

Brett Cecil made his first start after his promotion and did well.  He shut out the padres through six innings but faded in the seventh to give up three runs on four hits.   On the positive side Cecil didn't walk anyone and he recorded six K's.  Reportedly his fastball was sitting at 88mph.  Pitchers in Las Vegas do allow a lot of hits so one can look at the eleven hits and say that is a lot, or you could say that is OK for Vegas, it is up to interpretation.  But only two of the hits were doubles, the rest were singles and that is a good sign.  Jesse Chavez is the scheduled starter today for the 51's.  It looks like it could be between he and Cecil for Morrow's spot.   Clint Everts relieved Cecil and did not allow a hit in 2.1 innings.

Travis d'Arnaud had another great night, he was 4-5 with a double and a home run, he picked a runner off second, and he completed an out at home on a throw from Anthony Gose.  Gose had a good night too, 3 hits, a walk, the assist at home, and a double but he did get picked off once on the bases.  Adam Lind chipped in two hits with a home run and added a walk,  Moises Sierra had two hits, a home run and two walks. 

Lind is hitting .419 with an OPS of 1176.  d'Arnaud is hitting .343 and after a slow start his OPS in both May and June is over 1100.

 

New Hampshire 2  Richmond 3

Deck McGuire has another Decky start, he went five innings, gave up eight hits and two walks, a WHIP of 2.0. And that all added to three runs. One of the runs came on a home run and one on a double. Matt Wright was outstanding in relief, 3 IP, 5 K's.

The Fisher Cats scored a run in the third on a Mike McDade double but trailed 3-1 headed to the ninth. Brian Van Kirk walked and Kenan Bailli doubled him home. Tying run on second. But a fly out and a base running mistake by Bailli led to a double play and the threat was gone.

The Fishers had six hits, three hitters had two each, McDade, Bailli, and Ryan Goins.

 

Dunedin 3 Lakeland 11

It was an ugly affair for Dunedin on Tuesday. Casey Lawrence couldn't get out of the third inning. He gave up seven runs, four earned, on eight hits, in 2.2 innings. Shawn Griffith coughed up an ugly three runs in the eighth inning, thanks in part to four walks.

Dunedin's three runs were all unearned. Marcus Knecht tripled and scored in the second inning after having a foul pop dropped. Knecht also doubled in a run in the sixth and scored on a ground out.

Kevin Nolan and Knecht had two hits each. Travis Snider was 1-5.

 

Lansing 0  Fort Wayne 1

Jesse Hernandez held Fort Wayne hitless through seven innings, But the lead off hitter in the eighth reached on an infield single to end the no hitter. Hernandez got the next out and then a double play to complete an eight inning one-hitter. The only run scored in the first inning, the lead-off hitter walked, stole second, went to third on a wild pitch and scored on a sac fly.

Lansing out hit Fort Mayne by a factor of three, 3-1. Chris Hawkins had two hits and Carlos Perez one.

 

 

Three Stars:

3rd star: Brett Cecil

2nd star: Travis d'Arnaud

1st star: Jesse Hernandez

 

Cecil Beats Bear; Hernandez Almost Does It | 50 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:20 AM EDT (#258520) #
I know we cut the LV pitchers some slack because of park effects, but should we also take into account the extent to which the LV defence helps them out? If you're pitching for Vegas, you're likely to have Gose, Hechavarria, Diaz, d'Arnaud and/or Sierra playing behind you. That's gotta help reduce your BABIP and runs allowed.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#258521) #
Do we actually know any of those guys are good defensively outside of Hechavarria? I know Gose & Sierra have nice arms but Bautista can tell you there's a lot more to fielding than that. Diaz, in particular, I've heard from a non-team source is nowhere near as good as he's been made out to be.
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:31 AM EDT (#258522) #
Some recent observations about Gose:

- "He is a 70 runner with an 80 arm who can run everything down in center field....His defense alone makes him a big leaguer[.]" -Keith Law (Feb 2012)

- "has the chance to be the best defense [sic] outfielder in the game (a bold statement)" -Marc Hulet (March 2012)

- "Centerfielder Anthony Gose combines 20 home run power with blinding speed and outstanding defense..." -Kevin Goldstein (March 2012)
mendocino - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:39 AM EDT (#258523) #

Some of the roster for Vancouver

 

Pitcher Eric Brown, a former UBC Thunderbird, heads the Canadian contingent that also includes fellow pitchers Zack Breault and Nick Purdy and outfielder Dalton Pompey. All four are from Ontario.

Brown, Breault and Purdy also return from the 2011 team along with notables like closer Drew Permison, sidearm reliever Philip Brua, infielder Balbino Fuenmayor and out-fielder Nick Baligod. There are 11 returnees in total.



Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Canadians+find+spots+player+roster/6773863/story.html#ixzz1xgUSuG32
Gerry - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#258524) #

Gose is by all reports an excellent outfielder with a strong arm.  The comment I remember most about him came from an opposing manager in one of BA's end of season reports in 2011.  To paraphrase the comment from the manager - I always think he plays too shallow but I have never seen a catchable ball hit over his head.

I also think Diaz is a good defender but I also think a Johnny McDonald comp is his ceiling.  He is short and close to the ground and that might make his range appear better than it is.

Sierra has the rocket arm but otherwise I think he is probably average.  He is fairly blocky in body size and therefore I don't think his speed is great, he probably has average to below average range in right.

Mike Green - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#258526) #
Cecil had a very good game.  He kept the ball down for the most part, struck out 6 and walked none.  He gave up some line drives, but no opposing hitter came close to hitting the long ball.  In the 7th with one out, he gave up a looping single, a ground ball single and a line drive double, then got the second out before being replaced.

The 51s are now 4 games out of first place . 
John Northey - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:51 AM EDT (#258527) #
One wonders how long Gose is going to stay in AAA now.  Snider & Thames have yet to impress, Davis is hardly a long term answer, and now that he is hitting296/372/422 (794) overall largely via his last 2 months after a slow start one has to think that 21 year old is ready for his shot.  He has always spent a full season at each level, but maybe it is time.  He has to be added to the 40 man this winter anyways and unlike Hechavarria he has an obvious spot to play.
85bluejay - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#258528) #

Don't know much about him but 17 Y.O Jesus Tinoco had a nice outing in the DSL - 5 innings/7SO/0B/0H

I know he's a minor league journeyman, but I'm rooting for Jesse Chavez - he's deserves a shot for his performance this year - if he pitches better tonight than Cecil did last night, then I believe he'll get the call - I was impressed with his outing in Texas.

85bluejay - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:03 AM EDT (#258529) #
Whether Gose gets a shot earlier than Sept. I think depends on Snider - If the Jays think Snider's approach at the plate is ready then I think he gets a long look as I think the Jays need to make a decision on him this winter.
92-93 - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#258530) #
Snider has yet to impress? If you mean at the minor league level, he's ripping up the PCL yet again this year. If you mean at the major league level, maybe the team should give him that chance by playing him everyday before making that assertion. And this is coming from the guy who said before the year that the Jays are a better team with an outfield of Rasmus/Gose/Bautista than Thames/Rasmus/Bautista. There's no sense in rushing Gose up when you have a player with a much higher bat ceiling waiting for a real chance to play everyday in LF and the team has an above average CF already.

Mike, can I assume you are watching/listening to these PCL games when you make comments like that? I'd give Cecil Morrow's spot in the rotation and if it doesn't work this time around I'd start the conversion into a reliever. He isn't going to magically find velocity by pitching as a starter in the minors.
Gerry - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:08 AM EDT (#258531) #

Here is the Vancouver roster I received from the Blue Jays.  It has 31 names, the Vancouver newspaper reports say 32 players have arrived.  I am sure there will be lots of changes over the next week or two as newly drafted and signed players arrive.  The Bluefield and GCL rosters will be set on Friday. 

31 players  
R   Avendano, Javier - 21
R   Brown, Eric - 23 
R   Cole, Taylor - 22  
R   White, Ben - 23  
   
L   Turner, Colton
R   Brosnahan, Bobby
     
R   Sikula, Arik -23  
R   Brua, Philip - 23  
L   Delatte, Brad - 22
R   Kadish, Ian -23   
R   Lucas, Jonathan -24  
R   Permison, Drew - 23  
R   Purdy, Nick - 22  
R   Breault, Zack - 23  
R   Donahue, Tucker - 22 
     
       
Hernandez, Leo - 21  
Frawley, Harrison - 23
Klien, Daniel - 22  

Fuenmayor, Balbino - 22  
Arcila, Daniel - 21  
Flores, Jorge - 20  
Sweeney, Kellen - 20  
Johnson, Matt - 24  
       
Leyland, Jordan - 23  
Phillips, Eric - 22  
Chung, Derrick - 24  
      
Pompey, Dalton - 19  
Baligod, Nick - 24  
Melendez, Ron - 22  
Newman, Matthew - 23  
Parmley, Ian - 22  

tstaddon - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:12 AM EDT (#258532) #
We've all been very patient and on-board with the team's philosophy regarding prospect promotions to date. But perhaps the time has at last come, for the first time this season, to utter the great call: Free Travis d'Arnaud!
greenfrog - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:19 AM EDT (#258533) #
Gerry, is Thon Jr. now fully healthy, and where will he be playing this year?
Lugnut Fan - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:21 AM EDT (#258534) #
Aleson Escalante was transferred to the Vancouver roster from Lansing yesterday.  He is probably the 32nd player that arrived.
John Northey - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#258535) #
d'Arnaud will have to get a shot by next year that is for certain.  The big question is JPA - if he is who he seems to be, a guy with a 100-110 OPS+ ceiling - then trading him makes a lot of sense as I doubt the Jays want him or d'Arnaud in a backup role or split between CA/DH (which I think could work nicely - even numbered games play d'Arnaud, odd numbered JPA, other one DH's, have a third catcher on the roster such as Gomes for backup).  One of the greatest teams ever, the Yankees of the 50's/60's, had 2 great catchers who would spend time in LF when not catching, why not try it here?
Gerry - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#258537) #

I am not sure if you can say Thon is healthy.  I know he had reported he has a kidney issue and I don't know, but that could be an ongoing issue he has to manage.  From a baseball perspective he appears to be healthy but his numbers in extended spring were not great.  The Jays will have to decide whether to send him to Bluefield or leave him in the GCL.

This will be an interesting time to watch where some of the 2010 and 2011 high school draftees get assigned.  Vancouver is a college age league and if you look at the roster above, most players are in their 20's.  Kellen Sweeney and Dalton Pompey are two of the younger players on the roster but a 20 year old who has major league potential should be able to handle himself as a 20 year old in the NWL.  That sets him up to be a 20/21 year old in the MWL next season and then a 21/22 year old in the FSL which would be an average path to a major league career.

Thon is now 20.  If he is sent to Bluefield he has a chance to show he deserves that shot at Lansing next year, just like Chris Hawkins did last year.  If Thon stays in the GCL then I think that means the Jays don't see him as being ready for full season ball next year in his age 21 season.

Oceanbound - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#258540) #
Surprised to see Avendano moved down to Vancouver. I guess they are trying to make him a starter.
Super Bluto - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#258541) #
The big question is JPA - if he is who he seems to be, a guy with a 100-110 OPS+ ceiling - then trading him makes a lot of sense as I doubt the Jays want him or d'Arnaud in a backup role or split between CA/DH (which I think could work nicely - even numbered games play d'Arnaud, odd numbered JPA, other one DH's, have a third catcher on the roster such as Gomes for backup)

This makes a whole lot of sense to me, too. I don't see the point of having someone like Mathis on the team. Or McCoy. It's not their most visible problem, but it seems to me that with a few exceptions (Molina), the Jays bench has been super shallow. Is it costing them games? I don't know. But I'd feel a lot more interested in the late innings of games where we're in striking distance having D'Arnaud or Arencibia as potential pinch hitters than the likes of Mathis and McCoy.
China fan - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:53 AM EDT (#258542) #
"....Snider has yet to impress?...."

The issue, of course, is his wrist. The injury seems to keep lingering and lingering. He's only had 96 at-bats in the PCL this year, and most of them were pre-injury, so it's a little hard to generalize from that. His rehab had to be halted and started again. Finally this week he's been able to get 18 at-bats at Dunedin, but he's only managed 5 hits, and only 1 was for extra bases. He's expected to be in Dunedin for the rest of this week, at least, before they consider promoting him to the PCL again. I really don't think we can make any projections or demands for major-league playing time until we see whether he has fully recovered or not.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 12:02 PM EDT (#258543) #
Just look at how long it took Encarnacion to find his power stroke while recovering from wrist issues. Wrist problems seem to sap your power and if power is central to your skillset, it obviously greatly diminishes your value.

With LF his for the taking, Snider's golden opportunity could be frittered away in what could be a wasted summer. And unfortunately for him, the bloom of youth is fading (in a baseball context, of course). If he's not fully recovered until 2013, he'd be trying to win a starting job at age 25, no longer a wunderkind.
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#258544) #
92-93, I wasn't watching Cecil last night, although I saw him in NH.  The details of last night's game I got from Gameday- the away fly outs are short and the doubles were line drives that made it to the wall, and the recap provides the 7th inning summary.

He is going to give up his hits and home runs, but if he gets enough of a downward plane going so that the club can turn some DPs behind him, he'll be all right. 

 
acepinball - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#258546) #
The issue with Snider is not exclusively the wrist. Everybody seems to forget how often he strikes out.

I've been a big Snider fan since they drafted him. I was in the camp pulling for him to get the call to the show as early as possible. However, his quick rise through the system is ultimately his undoing as he wasn't challenged to make any adjustments until he was at the highest level of competition.

Him striking out twice a day in A-ball should be a screaming indication to everyone that he has essentially just broke spring training, and it will be August before you can expect him to hit MLB pitching. Even Brett Lawrie had a few more weeks in AAA post-injury last season.

Snider's big chance will come next season as an out-of-options player. Whether that will be in Toronto or not is TBD.
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#258551) #

Some mle OPS numbers for 4 of the Vegas players based on what they've done so far this season - Hechavarria .661, D'Arnaud .785, Sierra .668 and Gose .621.

I think at this point, especially considering how he's been hitting the last 2 months, D'Arnaud would be a clear improvement over Arencibia at the plate.  Behind the plate, I don't know.  The other guys probably aren't ready yet to hit well at the major league level.  Gose had such a bad start, you could have a look at just the last couple of months and get a somewhat different view, but I'd prefer he stay in Vegas for the year.  Same for Hechavarria.  Sierra doesn't offer the same defensive skills that Gose and Hechavarria do, so the hitting bar is higher for him.  I think he's got quite a bit of work to do yet.

Nigel - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#258552) #
Wow, from a prospect point of view that's a less interesting roster than the one that was fielded for much of the year last season in Vancouver (and I wasn't sure that was possible). It's a roster that will win a ton of games in the NW league so the locals who don't follow prospects much will be happy but as someone who likes to go to the games to watch the prospects, it's pretty disappointing.
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#258553) #

And, FWIW, here are the mle's for the 2 guys who are leading the way for New Hampshire - Goins .654 and McDade .717

I know a lot of people don't think of McDade as much of a prospect, but I like the potential of a guy who's just turned 23 in May with a .717 mle in AA.  Normal progression would be maybe 40-60 points or so a year for another 2-4 years.

China fan - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#258554) #
At a quick glance, Pompey and Sweeney seem like the only interesting prospects on the Vancouver roster (along with possibly Fuenmayor if he isn't considered old for the level by now). Am I missing some?
Hodgie - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#258556) #
In regards to the defensive abilities of the Jays top prospects, I know it is highly subjective but Baseball America publishes their League Best Tools lists each season. It is highly subjective of course, but they have rated D'Arnaud as the best defensive catcher in the FSL(2010) and EAS(2011), Gose the best defensive OF in the SAL(2009), FSL(2010) and EAS(2011) and Hechavarria the best defensive shortstop in the EAS(2011).
Mike Green - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#258559) #
Normal progression sure isn't 40 points a year of OPS from age 23.  It is quite optimistic to look at McDade's MLE from 2012 and then use that to imagine how he might be in the major leagues in a few years, let alone by adding 40 points of OPS for a couple of years.  It's only two months of work, and it represents a significant step forward for him while repeating a level. 

It is true that McDade is a good defender by reputation (he made two nice swipe tags when I was watching and was solid otherwise), and has nicely evened out his W/K.  He's been deadly from the left side this year, and not much from the right. 

sam - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 04:34 PM EDT (#258563) #
Tucker Donahue is apparently of a 95mph+ fastball, although I will believe that when I see it. Yes, a rather underwhelming roster in terms of prospects. I imagine one or two of those guys will put together a good summer and get people excited that we may have a legitimate prospect on our hands, only to realize the following year that Lansing is still a long ways away from Vancouver. I think it's worth pointing out that the team didn't think Daniel Norris was ready for the level the way they felt about Justin Nicolino was last year.

I will be out to a couple of the Vancouver games and will provide reports.

Quickly approaching the mid way point of the Minor League season. Last year was a bit of an anomaly with so many prospects exceeding expectations and improving. This year the organization has come a bit down to earth. The "one-third" rule seems to apply. My rough estimation of prospects playing full season ball.

Improved
Anthony Gose (2)
Travis d'Arnaud (1)
Adeiny Hechavarria (15)
Moises Sierra (18)
Mike McDade
John Stilson*
Sean Nolin
Jesse Hernandez
Justin Nicolino (6)
Aaron Sanchez (7)
Andy Burns

Stayed Same
Joel Carreno
Sam Dyson*
Justin Jackson
John Tolisano
Ryan Goins
Asher Wojciechowski (10)
Anthony Desclafani*
Kevin Pillar
Chris Hawkins (12)
Carlos Perez (8)
Shane Optiz

Regressed
Jonathan Diaz
Chad Jenkins
Deck McGuire (9)
A.J. Jimenez
Brad Glenn
Jake Marisnick (3)
Marcus Knecht
Michael Crouse
Noah Syndergaard (4)
K.C. Hobson
Gus Pierre
Kellen Sweeney (19)

So fairly even across the board and I imagine people will disagree or argue names left off should be on, but a quick glance says most of our better prospects have improved this year. I've used MLB.com's top 20. I don't have the Batter's Box top 30 handy.

92-93 - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#258565) #
Settling for JP Arencibia as your DH (especially vs. a RHP) would never make sense; he's a bad hitter, a guy who jumps on mistakes but is completely helpless on anything thrown away or in the upper part of the strike zone.
hypobole - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:17 PM EDT (#258570) #
"Settling for JP Arencibia as your DH (especially vs. a RHP) would never make sense;"

Disagree. It would make perfect sense for a team planning to tank the season
TheBunk - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#258572) #
Noah Syndergaard regressed? I'd love to hear the rationale on that one. Probably too early to make these lists with so few scouting reports being made available to the public.
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:29 PM EDT (#258573) #
Mike, I think you have to look at what McDade did last year before he was hurt and then after he was hurt.  Before the injury he was hitting much better.  I don't put much weight on how he performed after the injury.  I would be interested to see what stats you are utilizing when you say that mle progression from age 23 sure isn't 40 points a year for 2 years - and actually, McDade put up half of those numbers at age 22.  As far as McDade repeating a year is concerned, again, I think the injury has to be factored in.  As of right now, I expect he would be in LV if not for Lind. 
sam - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:44 PM EDT (#258574) #
I have seen Syndergaard pitch this year as well as the last. Several others on this site have as well. He has a very good fastball and seriously underdeveloped secondary pitches. From what I saw last year he has not improved on either of his off-speed pitches. Developmentally I wouldn't say he's improved and the numbers suggest he has statistically regressed as well.
85bluejay - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 05:58 PM EDT (#258575) #
Interesting article @ Baseball America regarding the Soto family & age manipulation  - Maybe that's why Leance was a bust
TheBunk - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 06:05 PM EDT (#258577) #
The numbers don't suggest regression unless you are implying that a bad month means a player has gone backwards. More than likely, it's part of a fluid adaptation to full season ball as a nineteen year old. I'm not saying Syndergaard has progressed but until the scouting reports start commenting on the deterioration of his secondary stuff or losing mph on his fastball, regression doesn't feel like a proper evaluation to hang on Syndergaard.

That could go for a few of the players you've tagged under regression. The level plays a big role alongside the player's ability. A.J. Jimenez being a good example.
TheBunk - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#258578) #
I apologize for sounding rude in my first reply.
dan gordon - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 06:34 PM EDT (#258581) #
sam, i think Goins should definitely be in the improved category.  His OPS has gone from .745 in high A ball to .780 in AA ball.  His mle for OPS last year was .555.  This year, it's .654, an increase of 99 points, which is significantly more than you would expect.  He's taken a nice step forward at the age of 24.  As I recall, he had a serious problem with lefties last year, but so far this year, his OPS is only 41 points lower vs lefties than vs righties.
jgadfly - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#258584) #

        Also of note ... Gose played LF, Hechavarria played 2ndbase .

greenfrog - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 08:21 PM EDT (#258585) #
Some encouraging words about the Jays farm system:

Otab (Toronto): Hey Jim, Great draft coverage. What did you think of the Jays draft? Where would their system rank if they end up signing Matt Smoral and Marcus Stroman? Thanks

Jim Callis: I loved their draft and how aggressive they were. The extra picks helped, sure, but they were also bold. I think they'll get Stroman and Smoral when all is said and done. We ranked the Jays system No. 5 coming into the season and I could see them ranking No. 1 going into next year.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/chat/2012/2613555.html
Gerry - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 09:56 PM EDT (#258587) #
DeSclafani pitched five shutout innings tonight, the first of the tandem starters to do so. Syndergaard followed with four strong shutout innings of his own.
hypobole - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 10:05 PM EDT (#258588) #
Someone commented that organizations don't send their good pitching prospects to the PCL. That's a bit of a myth. Jarrod Parker, Trevor Bauer, Wily Peralta and Mike Montgomery were all ranked by BA as their orgs top prospects and all pitched in the PCL this year. Other PCL starting pitcher prospects include Martin Perez, Neil Ramirez, Brad Peacock, Garrett Richards and Christian Friedrich.
mendocino - Wednesday, June 13 2012 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#258590) #
Wondering if the reason Daniel Norris didn't make the Vancouver roster is because his hometown of Johnson City,TN is only a couple hours away from Bluefield, WV and can pitch at home vs Card's affiliate. Notice Bluefield newspapers hoping local Wasilewski makes team.
Lugnut Fan - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 07:11 AM EDT (#258594) #

I have seen pretty much all of Syndergaard's starts this season, and I wouldn't say he has regressed per se.  He has a good fastball and I don't think he has lost anything off of that pitch from last year, his change up is okay and isn't a bad pitch.  The problem is with his breaking pitch.  He slows his arm down and has an inconsistent release point with it.  I think he is focusing too much on trying to locate it rather than letting it fly.

Also, if you look at Syndergaards splits between starting and relieving, you will notice that he does much better when he starts.  I think coming out of the pen is a difficult transition for him and takes him out of his routine.  He mentioned to Milb.com a week or two ago that relieving is frustrating for him because he feels that he can't get into a routine.  From Gerry's interview with Dane Johnson, it looks like that is about to change as it appears everyone is going to get their own day and go five, so perhaps the second half is a better evaluation time to base opinions on Syndergaard.

Marc Hulet - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 09:35 AM EDT (#258600) #
You can't really use minor league stats to decide if a player has regressed, unless they're just down right bad or the pitcher is walking six or seven batters per nine innings... Syndergaard is progressing just fine. He's still very young and was a late developer in high school so he's a project. You have to be more patient with him than someone like Nicolino. Sanchez is kind of in between those two in terms of where he was when he started his pro career.
sam - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#258623) #
Fair enough, thank you Lugnut Fan, Marc, and the Bunk for your comments. Your points are well taken on Syndergaard and minor league stats. I have my own opinions on Syndergaard and in talking to baseball people, guys who don't trust the breaking ball or simply have no feel for the pitch (i.e. slowing the arm down) don't develop very good breaking balls. I've written elsewhere on the site about the starting vs. relieving splits. To sum it up, professional ball player, knows he's coming in at a certain time, staff treats it like a start, the onus is on him to be ready as a professional ballplayer. Again if anything this is more of a red-flag than anything.

I understand that the tendency is to apologize for kids his age, size, and fastball. I think that if there is anyone worth coddling/apologizing for in the system it's Syndergaard or guys like him. I agree as well that saying he's regressed is a bit harsh on the kid. The regression "tag" had a lot to do with the phenomenal stats he posted last year. However, I think it's worth facing up to the facts that Syndergaard is three years into a professional career and still doesn't seem to have a clue how to throw a curveball or any sort of breaking ball. He clearly struggles with the professional routine and is still very raw. As fans I think we need to be more critical of these prospects and their shortcomings as we've now experienced several prospects be promoted and struggled at the big league level because the inadequacies of their game have been exploited and which we've all somewhat ignored through their minor league careers.
Marc Hulet - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 05:47 PM EDT (#258645) #

Some people just can't spin a breaking ball. Syndergaard could develop into a very talented high-leverage reliever relying on a fastball-changeup combination. Or perhaps the team will have him try a cutter at a later date if the breaking ball continues to lag behind.

The thing I don't understand is why you think Noah's numbers are so bad? His strikeout rate is higher than last year, his walk rate is almost spot on to what it was last season (and below league average) and his FIP is only 2.67. For a teenager in full-season ball that is pretty darn impressive. Among pitchers with 30+ innings in the league, Syndergaard ranks third in K/9 rate. The two above him are aged 22 and 23. And he is the only player on the Top 20 in that category that is a teenager and only one other pitcher is younger than 21.

Context is huge.

sam - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 06:55 PM EDT (#258648) #
Marc, thank you for your response. I understand you have other commitments so I appreciate your response to this topic. The same goes for other commentators. Thank you.

I don't think his numbers are "so bad," and I apologize if that was the impression I was giving. Syndergaard has been hit this year more frequently than last and has allowed more runs. Granted, as you alluded to, the strikeouts and other numbers have remained impressive. Knowing people who have played in those leagues, the competition and rigours of full-season professional ball are very challenging. To go back to the list there, the overall comparison was to the previous season, which Syndergaard was mightily impressive.

I think you do bring up a good point about Syndergaard and his ability to perhaps work on another offering. I think we all operate under the assumption that Syndergaard is a starting pitching prospect and not a relief prospect. As such, there is some expectation that he develop three very good offerings.

I also think part of the appeal of Syndergaard is the potential or belief that he is your classic overhand power fastball-curveball pitcher from Texas. It's somewhat surprising considering the arm speed that he has some difficulty spinning a breaking ball. But, plenty of pitchers now are excelling without the conventional 12-6 curveball. I do wonder if the organization pulls the cord on the pitch and has him work on a cutter (as you say) or slider. He's going to need something that breaks away from right-handed hitters as he goes forward in my opinion.
scottt - Thursday, June 14 2012 @ 08:09 PM EDT (#258652) #
For an overhand pitcher, the cutter is probably the easiest way to add lateral spin.
Sano - Friday, June 15 2012 @ 03:15 AM EDT (#258662) #

Sam- there's no evidence that Syndergaard is struggling with adapting to the professional routine.  In fact, I know someone who works with the Vancouver Canadians who said that if anything, Syndergaard is a gym-rat and very dedicated to his professional career.  I think we should be careful to connect his complaints about coming into a game in the 5th and his difficulties developing a breaking pitch with a lack of professional dedication.

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