Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
My second-favorite squadron visits the Dome tonight to kick off interleague play, so I figured I'd elbow my way into the scout's chair for the long weekend. The Mets are 21-17, good for third place in the NL East. On the one hand, we're all accustomed to watching the Jays roll over against NL teams. On the other hand, the Jays will dodge the Mets' two best pitchers plus their starting catcher and shortstop. So, perhaps a miracle is imminent.


The Jays are 4-14 all-time against the Amazins, but that's ancient history. We actually haven't seen these two teams go at it since 2006. The last time the Jays faced the Mets, Carlos Delgado was making his big return to Toronto. New York's starting pitchers were Tom Glavine, Orlando Hernandez and Steve Trachsel. For the Jays, it was Casey Janssen, Roy Halladay and Josh Towers. Needless to say, things done changed.

Tonight, it's Jon Niese, a lefty who underwent plastic surgery during the offseason on a dare from Carlos Beltran. Niese was rewarded with a nice five-year deal. Or maybe it was the fact that he's in counterpart Ricky Romero's K% and GB% class that got him all the cash. Either way, he figures to be a mainstay in Flushing. Niese has a lively fastball in the low-mid-90s and pitches off it with a cutter, a big 12-6er and a changeup. As you'd expect for a pitcher with that repertoire, Niese has a small, 27-point OPS split.

Tomorrow, it's el poeta, Miguel Batista, at 41 the Mets' elder statesman. In effect, he's the new Tim Wakefield - a rubber-armed veteran who doesn't mind being used as a swingman. Batista was the seventh man in the bullpen until an elbow injury zapped Mike Pelfrey; now, he'll keep a rotation seat warm, at least until Matt Harvey forces someone out. On the mound, Batista is Roy Halladay minus the wipeout curveball and pinpoint command. His fastball moves very well, and he pitches off it with a cutter and the odd changeup. When he has a good feel for the fastball, he's tough. He threw seven shutout innings in a victory over Milwaukee on Monday.

Sunday's starter is righty Dillon Gee, whose goatee is extending into Reed Johnson territory. Gee is in his third year in the majors, and his K, BB and GB rates have all taken huge steps in the right direction. Unfortunately, he has been absolutely tattooed this year; he's stuck on a 5.65 ERA, his BABIP sits at .346 (last year: .270), and he's looked meatball-prone whenever I've seen him. Stuffwise, he reminds me of David Bush: his fastball is around 90, he has a big slow curveball which he can throw for strikes, a hard slider/cutter, and a changeup. He arguably comes to a full stop when he steps back into the windup. That may look funky, but it evidently hasn't been fooling anyone this year.

The Mets are an unusual team. They're your textbook long-sequence offense - lots of runners on base, not much power. They easily lead the NL in pitches per plate appearance, with 3.99, and they're second in OBP. Strange for an NL team that plays in a pitchers' park, but it's worked. The Mets would make the playoffs if the season ended today even though they allow 4.8 runs per game, third-worst in the NL.

New York's offense is powered by David Wright, who has emerged from a two-year slump to hit .411/.513/.621 in 2012. It's finally his team to lead, now that Carlos Beltran is in St. Louis and Jose Reyes has taken his considerable talents to South Beach, and I wonder if the added responsibility has helped inspire Wright to go HAM. (Advance Scout makes no assertions regarding the truth or falsehood of this conjectured narrative.) Wright has serious all-fields power, and he will stay on pitches down and away and scorch them to right center. In Yankee Stadium he'd be a mortal lock to hit 30 homers every single year. Not that I'm a scout or anything, but I think the way to attack Wright is to pound him up and in. If he gets around on one, oh well. If Alvarez can fire endless fastballs just below the strike zone, hoping to induce Wright to chase, that might work as well. Alternatively, you could just try to pitch around him, but with Duda, Murphy, Davis and Baxter on deck you run the risk of easing yourself into a jam.

Let's jump to the infirmary, since aside from the fact Johan Santana and R.A. Dickey aren't pitching, the best reason to expect the Jays to win this weekend is that Ruben Tejada (hamstring; .305/.362/.400) and Josh Thole (concussion; .284/.356/.370) are out. One of the Mets' big if unheralded advantages heading into the season was having a shortstop and a catcher who could be relied on to easily beat the league-average OBP, keeping the line moving for the big bats. But the Jays' pitchers won't have to deal with those two, and their respective replacements are the immortal Ronny Cedeno and Vancouver native Mike Nickeas. Cedeno is your quintessential AAAA shortstop - a smooth fielder, not a great hitter, though he did hit a three-run bomb off Logan Ondrusek to polish off the Reds yesterday. Nickeas is a standard backup catcher, I guess, and he's had an odd flair for hitting timely bloop doubles. Rob Johnson, the backup backup catcher, runs well. He has 6 career stolen bases and will bunt for a hit if you let him. Summary: If you find yourself saying, "Wow, that lineup sucks," which in all sincerity you probably won't, do keep in mind that two solid, unsung regulars have given way to two replacement players.

Centerfielder Andres Torres, acquired from the Giants for Angel Pagan, is this lineup's lone speed burner. He's a gap hitter - it seems pretty clear to me that his 16-homer outburst two years ago was a fluke. But he's a quick and adept outfielder, very qualified to man centerfield, a huge defensive upgrade from the relatively klutzy Pagan in my view. And like every other regular on this team, he will work the count and draw walks.

Rookie outfielder Kirk Nieuwenhuis got his big chance to break into the majors when Torres suffered a calf injury six innings into the year. He's hitting .291/.364/.402. He's a three-true-outcome machine: he walks, he strikes out, he has some pop, he steals the odd base, and he's a much better fielder than Bay or Duda. (Nieuwenhuis was the everyday CF while Torres was injured.) Opposing pitchers have just started to the enter the "don't give him anything to hit" phase, and we'll see how he handles the adjustment.

Lucas Duda hasn't set the world on fire quite the way I expected him to - he only has 4 homers and 4 doubles - but he's starting to heat up. He's up to .279/.360/.410, and his LD rate is above 26%. Duda hits the ball really damn hard, and in light of that, I remain convinced that the power outburst is inevitable. Duda singled off Aroldis Chapman yesterday and is actually hitting above .300 against lefties (albeit with no walks or power). His biggest weakness, of course, is fielding - he is not fast, and he wasn't born with amazing ball-reading instincts. Fortunately for the Mets, unless someone else is tired or hurt, they'll get to DH him as often as they want.

Second baseman Daniel Murphy has picked up right where he left off last year, hitting .327/.367/.395. He's probably miscast as a second baseman - he plays deep all the time, even against RH batters, probably to give himself extra range. If I were one of the Jays' speedsters I might try to sneak a bunt past the pitcher at some point to take advantage.

Mike Baxter is hitting .364 as the Mets' designated pinch hitter, and he's started to earn some regular playing time in left field. Baxter is a native of Whitestone, NY, less than 5 miles away from Shea. Against righty pitchers, he'll probably take the extra outfield spot when Duda DHs.

First baseman Ike Davis has been dreadful. Call it valley fever, bad hit luck or just general sluggishness, but he's working on a .164/.225/.305 line, and he's made enough uncharacteristic errors that the fielding stats actually have him below average. The Mets will pinch-hit Scott Hairston or Justin Turner for him against a lefty in the late innings. At least Davis' stunt double is taking all this in stride. (Actual Ike.)

Bench: Scott Hairston is a righty platoon hitter who will probably spell one of the lefties tonight. Justin Turner is a pest/utilityman who grinds out extremely long at-bats. His at-bat song is "Call Me Maybe," an excellent choice. Jordany Valdespin is a speedster/utilityman whose first major-league hit was an unforgettable game-winning three-run homer off Jonathan Papelbon.

Manager Terry Collins did well to win 77 games with last year's injury-ravaged squad, and I think he's been a positive factor this year as well. He can be a bit demonstrative, but his team does not quit, ever. Even if they fall behind early, which happens often, the Mets' lineup keeps wearing the pitcher out and usually gets to him by the middle innings. Collins also deftly handled a potential beanball situation earlier this week, in which now-DFA'd D.J. Carrasco hit Ryan Braun after giving up a homer in an 8-0 game. Collins pulled Wright and Daniel Murphy (who's hitting .330) to avoid retaliation, over a loud protest from Wright, who insisted on taking one for the team. Everyone involved said all the right things after the game. In any event, I think Collins was probably right.

Now for the bad news. The Mets' stolen base success rate is barely above 50%, largely due to their insistence on calling for the hit-and-run at unbelievably stupid times. Down 2-0, fourth inning, steady drizzle falling all day creating a slow track, Wright on first, one out, Duda(!) batting, Greinke(!!) pitching, 3-2 count? Hit and run, baby. Result: strike 'em out, throw 'em out, game effectively over. This thinking defeats the point of having a high-P/PA, high-walk rate lineup that wears out the opposing pitcher. Nevertheless, I can practically guarantee that the Mets will graciously and voluntarily give away a baserunner at some inopportune time this weekend. But I think that, despite this minor specific gripe, Collins has done a good job with his team.

Collins does have a short leash with his relievers. He's the kind of guy who sees Ramon Ramirez give up two infield hits, sees a switch hitter on deck, and immediately sends for his LOOGY. And I do mean LOOGY: righties have a .286/.403/.473 career line against Tim Byrdak. (Lefties have it a bit tougher.) Byrdak is listed 5'11" according to what I assume is the Frasor scale, but his killer pitch is a slider, so height doesn't really work against him. Byrdak is also no longer the only lefty in the pen, as the Mets just called up Robert Carson, a middling starter who's flourished in his third shot at AA since being converted to relief. Carson has yet to make his debut, so give him a nice hand if he appears this weekend. He replaces D.J. Carrasco, who was DFA'd this week.

The closer is Frank Francisco. You know him, you love him. His ERA is around 8, but he received a vote of confidence on Monday and hasn't blown any games since. The eighth-inning man is Rauch, who remains the same guy he was last year. The best pitcher in the pen is probably Bobby Parnell, a fireballing righty with a nasty knucklecurve; second-best is probably Ramon Ramirez. It's not exactly an inspiring group. Byrdak, as described above, is death on lefties. Hard-throwing righty Manny Acosta has a decent track record but has been bombed regularly this year. All told, the Mets' bullpen ranks fourth-last in the NL in WPA at -1.94, and you can probably guess who's first in the majors but it's still going to take awhile for the shock to wear off.

Song to Advance Scout to: Jag var åtminstone mindre fel

Possible lineup for Saturday and Sunday (and note that this team leans left):
CF Torres - S
RF Nieuwenhuis - L
3B Wright - R
DH Duda - L
2B Murphy - L
1B Davis - L
LF Baxter - L
SS Cedeno - R
C Nickeas - R
Bench - OF Hairston - R, UT Turner - R, C Johnson - R, UT Valdespin - L

Leverage ladder: Francisco - R, Rauch - R, Byrdak - L, Parnell - R, Ramirez - R, Acosta - R, Carson - L.

Chart: All hail Anders, the craftsman of this fine chart.


Advance Scout: Mets, May 18-20 | 136 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#256578) #
Miles above replacement level Scout, Alex.  It should be noted that despite the mediocre bullpen and a closer with an ERA over 8, the Mets have managed to go 21-17 despite being outscored 161-182. 
Jdog - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#256579) #
Oh your a Mets fan, that explains the trade for Duda during the BBFL offseason. I was rather shocked someone wanted him for one of their keepers.
whiterasta80 - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 11:32 AM EDT (#256581) #

I know we aren't facing him but we really should acknowledge the comeback of Johan Santana who has been a big contributor.  He's put up a WHIP of 1.16, a K/9 of 9.5 and has only allowed 3 HRs all season. All while coming back from an injury many pundits said was going to end his career. He's showing signs of going deeper into games and if the mets fall off he could be an interesting target at the trade deadline.  Huge contract, but its relatively short term.

bpoz - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 12:22 PM EDT (#256583) #
When we next talk about Alvarez...I was wondering if he has any similarities to Kevin Brown & Orel Herschiser. At times I was very impressed by those two. They did not throw as hard as Alvarez but they had some long streaks of dominance.
I see all 3 as cool headed competitors.
Mick Doherty - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#256586) #
The Mets are my second favorite team, too ... in the same way Pete Rose once told Tony Perez he'd finished second in the vote as the Reds' handsomest player. ("Everyone else tied for first.")
binnister - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 12:54 PM EDT (#256587) #

Can help but shake my head when I look at Henderson's K rate (6.8%).  Talk about a fellow who *needs* to rely on the defense behind him!

Safe Prediction:  Omar starts in place of Gomes on Sunday.

Mike Green - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#256589) #
And as for the song of the Scout- it's a little early for gloating, I think.  Nice tune, though. 
uglyone - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 01:23 PM EDT (#256592) #
I am a huge fan of Alvarez, but that K-rate is becoming very, very scary.
whiterasta80 - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#256597) #

Are people watching Alvarez on the mound before raising these concerns, or just looking at baseball reference? Right now there isn't a pitcher on the entire Jays staff I am more confident sending to the hill. I don't need to see the K-rate to be optimistic about his future, Alvarez is pretty much the definition of the next generation of a moneyball player. Thanks to the stats heads the value will now be found in people who defy projection and Alvarez is exhibit A. He's a guy that projections say won't be successful, but who just keeps performing.   

For those who do need to see the K-rate, I wouldn't worry. It won't be long before he will start to get those "Pedro" calls from the umps and his K-rate will rise simply from that. 

On a seperate note, has anyone noticed that Bautista's recovery has coincided PRECISELY with Adam Lind being moved out of the cleanup spot? The combination of a rededication to patience, and adequate protection is doing wonders for his season.

Ryan Day - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#256600) #
The interesting thing about Alvarez is that he's not like most other pitchers who don't strike anyone out. He's not, say, Dana Eveland, who throws junk with a tiny margin for error that eventually disappears; he's pitching in the low-to-mid 90s, he's not walking anyone, and hitters just keep mashing the ball into the ground.

I have no idea if he can keep this up, or if there are any precendents for this kind of performance (maybe Derek Lowe?), but he's a pretty unique case.
Mike Green - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#256603) #
Kevin Brown was like this when he came up.  Brown, however, didn't make it up until he was 24 and didn't quite have the mph on the fastball that Alvarez does.
China fan - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 03:11 PM EDT (#256604) #
Always been puzzled why people think they can project the career K rate of a 22-year-old pitcher. Isn't there a fair chance that he can improve on the numbers that he's posting as a 22-year-old?
Matthew E - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#256605) #
Always been puzzled why people think they can project the career K rate of a 22-year-old pitcher. Isn't there a fair chance that he can improve on the numbers that he's posting as a 22-year-old?

My understanding, from Bill James, is that the normal pattern is for a pitcher's K rate to go up a bit once he learns the league and stuff, and then decline after that. Now, for Alvarez, you can say that because of his youth and stuff, he's more likely than most to make some kind of a breakthrough that sends his K rate way up, and maybe that's true. But I think he needs it to go way up; going up a little bit won't get it done.

Or maybe he'll be the first pitcher in half a century to be able to sustain long-term success as a starter despite a significantly below-average strikeout rate. Quite a brave prediction, though.
92-93 - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:03 PM EDT (#256606) #
I'd be far less concerned with Hendo's K-rate if his BB-rate hadn't doubled since last year's 10 start cameo. When you're walking 1 batter per 9 you can get away with pitching to contact. When you're walking over 2 per 9, not so much.

Sweeping the Yankees with Drabek & Hutchison sets the Jays up beautifully for the Mets. We have our 1-2-3 facing their 3-4-5. Let's take 2 out of 3, at a minimum.
China fan - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:08 PM EDT (#256607) #
....for Alvarez, you can say that because of his youth and stuff, he's more likely than most to make some kind of a breakthrough that sends his K rate way up....

Nicely put, and I think it's very plausible. And not forgetting that he's only had about 12 weeks in the majors -- so it may be too early to generalize about his K rate anyway.
Hodgie - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#256608) #
Seems to me that Tom Glavine, Tommy John and Jamie Moyer did alright for themselves, but your point is still well taken Matthew. Of course, unless it has become fashionable again to panic over small sample sizes I don't see the problem with Alvarez. Last season he posted as 15.4% K rate in his 10 games with the big club. That mark was consistent with his minor league numbers and I believe he was the youngest pitcher in MLB at the time. The 8 games this year are the aberration, not the norm. I might worry if he finishes an entire season with his current rate but certainly not before that.
John Northey - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#256609) #
Kevin Brown wasn't quite Alvarez level though. His lowest ever was a 4.1 K/9 at age 26, 4.9 as a rookie at 24. 3 times in his 30's he has a BB/9 sub-2, but in his 20's the lowest he got was 2.6

Alvarez, on the other hand, had a 1.1 BB/9 last year and 2.1 this year (so far). His K/9 was 5.7 last year (low but acceptable) and is 2.5 this year (crazy low).

The other big trick for Brown was, despite playing in the steroid era, he had a HR/9 sub-1 in all but 3 of his 19 seasons (well, 18 as I don't count his 5 IP campaign). Just one of those 3 was higher than 1.0 and that was a 1.3 at age 37. Alvarez was at 1.1 last year and 1.3 this year - in short he has 2 years with higher HR rates than all but one season in Brown's career.
Mike Green - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:36 PM EDT (#256610) #
Yeah, but Brown started two years older.  It's easy to imagine Alvarez posting comparable W and K rates to Brown (say 4.5 Ks and 2.5 BBs per 9) when he's 24, leaving aside any large developmental change. So far, Alvarez has been giving up quite a few home runs courtesy of a 15.4% HR/FB rate about 1.5 times league average.  There is a decent chance that this number falls too.  This year he leads the team in Hit Tracker "Just Enoughs" with 3 wall-scrapers allowed. 
MatO - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#256611) #
Let's hope he can't sustain his career ratio of 16HR and 21BB's allowed.
ComebyDeanChance - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 04:47 PM EDT (#256612) #
How does Henderson compare to Vern Ruhle?
Alex Obal - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 05:35 PM EDT (#256613) #
that explains the trade for Duda during the BBFL offseason. I was rather shocked someone wanted him for one of their keepers.

Somebody kept Andrew Bailey?

And it's definitely too early for any kind of gloating, but you're always one Wright injury away from being too late.

I'd be curious to see when Alvarez is handing out his walks. If Bengie Molina is on deck, the possibility of a double play gives Alvarez a license to pitch around the current batter, forcing him to earn the walk. If the hitter doesn't chase anything, Alvarez has a decent plan B.
Mike Green - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#256614) #
Alvarez' career splits are (as you might guess) extreme.  With nobody on, he is a routine type of decent pitcher (albeit one who is susceptible to the home run)- 300 PAs, .271/.305/.448  10 Ws, 41 Ks and 12 HRs.  He aint nibblin' at all.  With runners on, and it doesn't matter where they are, he walks many more, strikes out many fewer, gives up fewer home runs, and his BABIP against goes way down.  His GB/FB rate goes way up with runners on base, while his HR/FB rate goes way down.  He looks like two different pitchers, and it seems to me that conserving his energies in the deadball era style is what is driving his approach.

If you look at the career of an extreme ground ball pitcher like Derek Lowe, you don't see these kinds of splits at all. 






robertdudek - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#256615) #
The Kevin Brown that developed into an elite pitcher had the best sinker on the planet. Alvarez is not remotely comparable to him, in that he doesn't have that type of sinker, but has better stuff overall than Brown did when he first came up.
neurolaw - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:30 PM EDT (#256616) #
Alvarez and the reaction of fans and bloggers to him has been a real fascination to me. And from everything that I have read there appears to be no middle ground. Either you think he is going to be a very good to great pitcher or that he sucks and is basically just lucky. He really is a classic example of how thinking has shifted over the last few years. In my opinion the pendulum has really shifted far too much into the direction of sabermetric analysis and not enough of actually watch him pitch. Look he has thrown 116 innings the book's out on him. Teams know that he is not going to trick you, he is going to pound the zone and throw strikes yet all teams can do is hit the ball into the ground. There is skill behind that and denying it means you have not actually watched him pitch.

I like the Kevin Brown comparisons, that's who he reminds me of and by the way KB interestingly started at 4 K/ 9 IP and steadily increased his K rate until he peaked at 9. Now I am not saying that he will have a similar trajectory but I do believe that his K rate will steadily increase as he understands the league better and himself.

Pitchers who throw hard and throw strikes and who have had his kind of success at 21-22 don't grow on trees. I for one am very interested to see how the next few years play out.
BlueJayWay - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:36 PM EDT (#256617) #
Are people watching Alvarez on the mound before raising these concerns, or just looking at baseball reference? Right now there isn't a pitcher on the entire Jays staff I am more confident sending to the hill. I don't need to see the K-rate to be optimistic about his future, Alvarez is pretty much the definition of the next generation of a moneyball player. Thanks to the stats heads the value will now be found in people who defy projection and Alvarez is exhibit A. He's a guy that projections say won't be successful, but who just keeps performing.

See, the problem with this is that there is simply no case, ever, of a starting pitcher in modern baseball history succeeding year after year with a criminally low strikeout rate.  I'm not betting on Alvarez, or anybody, being the cosmic exception that has yet to happen.  He needs to strike out more than 2.5/9.
neurolaw - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:42 PM EDT (#256618) #
But Bluejayway very few posters are denying that. All that is being said is that his stuff is good and will probably not stay at 2.5 given that his K rate (although never great) was never this low either.
BlueJayWay - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 06:46 PM EDT (#256619) #
Seems to me that Tom Glavine, Tommy John and Jamie Moyer did alright for themselves

As Bill James noted in his Historical Baseball Abstract, people always bring up Tommy John in this, but without realizing that for large portions of his career, he had right around a league-average strikeout rate.  Also true for Glavine and Moyer - these guys strikeout rates were not actually that low for the times they pitched and had their best years.  And they were much closer to league average K rate than Alvarez is this year.
greenfrog - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 07:26 PM EDT (#256621) #
Arencibia is *hot*. Whew!
scottt - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#256622) #
Chien-Ming Wang struck out 3.1/9 and won 19. He even got some MVP votes that year and that was playing in front of Jeter.
robertdudek - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 07:55 PM EDT (#256623) #
Chien-Ming Wang struck out 3.1/9 and won 19. He even got some MVP votes that year and that was playing in front of Jeter.'

Where is he now?
greenfrog - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 08:02 PM EDT (#256624) #
Interesting that with the Mets in town, the Jays' SP (Romero) and 3-4-5 hitters (Bautista, EE and Arencibia) in game 1 are all Ricciardi acquisitions. Ricciardi made his share of missteps, but he also added some players who paying significant dividends (at low cost) for the current front office.
greenfrog - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 08:03 PM EDT (#256625) #
Btw: did I mention that Arencibia is hot?
greenfrog - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#256626) #
Food for thought:

Rasmus: 203/272/338 (1:0 SB:CS) in 148 PA
Davis: 273/333/477 (6:2 SB:CS) in 48 PA

Who should start in CF? It's pretty clear that Davis should be the preferred choice against LHPs (against whom he was 289/349/411 before tonight's game). I think Rasmus deserves more rope against RHPs, but he might have a challenger for the starting role before too long.
JB21 - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 09:17 PM EDT (#256628) #
At this point Davis should be in every game versus leftys but depending on what AA does next when Lawrie comes back Davis and Francisco could have three guys to spell versus leftys so it's probably JF's best bet to give two of Thames, Rasmus, and Snider/Cooper/McDade a day off against leftys, assuming of of those three gets called up to replace Lind's spot.

Also assuming Gomes gets out sometime.
JB21 - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 09:31 PM EDT (#256630) #
Verlander almost got one again. He is good.
Matthew E - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#256631) #
Either you think he is going to be a very good to great pitcher or that he sucks and is basically just lucky.

I don't think he sucks. I'm wondering if he's going to turn out to be a guy like, oh, Scott Erickson, or Mike Boddicker, or, yes, Chien-Ming Wang, who had a mix of good years and bad years. There's nothing shameful about that.

One problem I think is Alvarez's philosophy. Hasn't he said stuff in interviews about how he doesn't want to strike guys out? He could be working against his own best interests here.
neurolaw - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 10:08 PM EDT (#256633) #
I was not referring to you specifically Matthew E. I was just pointing the general narrative among the blogging and fan community.

You are right he has said specifically he does not want to strike guys out and the Jays brass have repeatedly said they would rather he put the ball in play. But that is not what the scouts (i.e. Kevin Goldstein) say. They don't believe he has strikeout stuff. To be honest I am not sure which one it is.
Magpie - Friday, May 18 2012 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#256635) #
Chien-Ming Wang struck out 3.1/9 and won 19.

There is no shortage of pitchers who have had seasons like that. The problem is, they generally had just the one season. Anyone remember Jeff Ballard? Dave Fleming? Allan Anderson?

As for Wang himself, he struck out considerably more hitters over the rest of his career, and until he hurt himself he was almost impossible hit a home run against.
TamRa - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 12:21 AM EDT (#256636) #
we had this conversation before - a few times - and the last time I looked I concluded one of the best comps for Henderson is Dennis Martinez.

From his age 23 season through his age 33season he struck out 4.4 per 9

He also had a 3.98 ERA but a WHIP that was a bit high leading to being just a league average pitcher.

The trick for Alvarez is to keep those runners off base while he's not striking hitters out...but that is so defense dependent that you always worry.

Interestingly, Martinez over his first 200-ish IP in the major leagues had a K rate of just under 6.

Anyway, based on absolutely nothing, I think Alvarez WILL increase his K rate to something in the league-average neighborhood over the course of the next 3-5 seasons.

I'm not real worried about it but if it was still very low by the time he hit 25 I would be.
Thomas - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 01:09 AM EDT (#256637) #
The league K rate was much lower in the time of El Presidente. While the absolute numbers have relevance, so does the context. Alvarez is striking nearly nobody out at a time when the MLB K rate is about 2.5-3 batters higher than it was during the decade of Martinez's career you point to.

I haven't really heard much of an attitude here or other places that suggests most fans think Alvarez sucks or is getting incredibly lucky, although I could be wrong. I think most people recognize that he's a very young and talented pitcher who has been somewhat lucky this year. He has the profile of a pitcher who doesn't need a wealth of strikeouts to succeed in the majors and he has plenty of time to improve his K rate. However, many of us think that improvement must come at some point or he'll struggle to come close to replicating his success so far on a consistent basis.
Hodgie - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 01:15 AM EDT (#256638) #
people always bring up Tommy John in this, but without realizing that for large portions of his career, he had right around a league-average strikeout rate...

Perfectly aware of this and that is kind of the point. Some very successful pitchers have had long and successful careers despite having seasons that left them with what would otherwise be a below average strikeout rate for their careers. Alvarez is the third youngest pitcher in MLB and his K rate over these 8 games is the outlier in his professional career to date and yet it seems to be the only performance given any weight at the moment. In other words, there is a lot of hand wringing over the smallest of sample sizes.

92-93 - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 01:32 AM EDT (#256639) #
Tonight was one of the few times I wanted the manager to manage to the save stat. Villanueva had thrown 15 pitches in one appearance since last Friday, and the team had a 14-1 lead. I understand the inclination to get Crawford & Cordero some work too in low pressure situations, but I'd like to see Villanueva stretched out a little more in his appearances, preferably 30-45 pitches. He can handle it. Farrell's usage of Luis Perez is very puzzling and inconsistent to me.

It sure was nice to see the offense thumping and to win a laugher for once.

Omar Vizquel is 10/24 with 6 BBs lifetime vs. former Jay Miguel Batista. I expect he'll be in the lineup tomorrow.
TamRa - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 02:55 AM EDT (#256640) #
" Alvarez is the third youngest pitcher in MLB and his K rate over these 8 games is the outlier in his professional career to date and yet it seems to be the only performance given any weight at the moment. In other words, there is a lot of hand wringing over the smallest of sample sizes."


FTW.
hypobole - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:01 AM EDT (#256641) #
Old Hoss Radbourn only struck out 3.6 /9 and he's in the HOF! I'm sure you think that's a ridiculous comparison because today's game is vastly different from the 1880's when he pitched. But isn't today's game vastly different from the 1980's also? Did Sparky ever have spray charts for all opposing hitters posted in his dugout? I don't ever remember Earl shifting Brooks Robinson into right field.
Walton is a bit akin to Dr. Frankenstein with Alvarez as his creation. Pappy has created a super ground ball machine with runners on base, which dovetails with the the team's aggressive shifts to prevent ground balls becoming hits. Will it work in the long run? I don't know, but I do know saying Alvarez can't succeed with an abnormally low K rate shows a lack of insight into the changes in today's game.
TamRa - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:02 AM EDT (#256642) #
"The league K rate was much lower in the time of El Presidente. While the absolute numbers have relevance, so does the context."

I'll ask what I ask before - why?

I understand why something like a HR rate matters relevant to the league. If the league overall is hitting more homers than a pitcher might give up more homers without being "worse"

if the argument is that batters overall struck out less in those days, okay, I won't make the effort to look it up - I'll assume it for the sake of the point.

if that's true, it nevertheless illustrates that pitchers CAN in point of fact be successful while batters are striking out less. I don't see how the fact that batters in the aggregate struck out less 30 years ago (or whenever) undermines that claim.

I DO concede the point that it hardly ever happens - i just don't see the logical progression which says it CAN'T happen.
in a way it's like Jose Bautista's story. in 2010 the narrative all season long was "every time this happens, it's a one-year fluke. Look at Davey Johnson."

Only it wasn't. All the precedent said "look for X" and yes, "X" WAS the logical thing to look for in terms of expectations. Still, "X" didn't happen. that a thing rarely ever happens is not in itself proof that it won't happen this time.


(and yes, I am aware that if Alvarez was posting these numbers for, say, the White Sox, I'd be much more skeptical he was going to be the exception...but the point remains)
Ryan Day - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 08:32 AM EDT (#256646) #
Where [Chien-Ming Wang] now?

On and off the disabled list ever since he tore a ligament in his foot in 2008. Doesn't have anything to do with his strikeout rate.
bpoz - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 10:48 AM EDT (#256648) #
Well...One thing Alvarez is doing is NOT disappointing us.

Yes he is young, so are the Jays protecting his arm? Probably. That 97 pitch complete game shutout was incredible.

Also lets not forget that he is only using a small variety of pitches. Will he still have success as he moves up to the higher leagues? HA!!!

This guy is great.

JB21 - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 11:15 AM EDT (#256653) #
Omar Vizquel is 10/24 with 6 BBs lifetime vs. former Jay Miguel Batista. I expect he'll be in the lineup tomorrow.

He isn't. Davis is again though, at Rasmus' expense. Also, JPA is DH'ing. Mathis is catching today.
Mike Green - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#256654) #
I thought it was odd on Thursday when Davis got the start in left-field and Francisco DHed,, while Thames sat, against Phil Hughes.  It appears that Farrell may have been intending to get Davis more work on a consistent basis, in light of Rasmus' offensive struggles.    I personally would prefer to see Rasmus in there. 

After 40 games, the Jays are on pace for 89 wins and are 3rd in the league in runs/game and 4th in the league in runs allowed/game.  You'd have to be pretty happy with that.

greenfrog - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#256656) #
Has Davis tweaked his batting stance? He sort of looked like EE at the plate last night.
John Northey - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 12:35 PM EDT (#256657) #
Interesting to note with Rasmus...
Before sitting yesterday and today he was 0 for his last 17 with 2 walks for a 105 OPS (5 games). The 4 games before that streak he had a 1.038 OPS. This guy is either burning hot or freezing cold.

Rasmus has 6 multi-hit games vs 21 no-hit games. Escobar, with virtually the same OPS+, has also been streaky with 11 multi-hit games vs 14 no-hit games. Bautista, on the other hand, has 4 multi-hit games vs 15 no-hit games.

Btw, the SRS (Simple Rating System) which estimates how good a team is factoring in strength of schedule has the Jays #1 in the AL East and #2 in the AL overall (Rangers a mile ahead of everyone).
Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 12:45 PM EDT (#256658) #
Today's Mets' lineup looks like something out of spring training... right down to the starting pitcher.
Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#256660) #
Has Davis tweaked his batting stance? He sort of looked like EE at the plate last night.

Old school, baby. Two hands on the bat on the follow through.
greenfrog - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#256661) #
Yeah, the announcers mentioned that...it also looked to me as though he had more of that upright, relaxed, swaying stance (and shorter stroke) that EE has refined.
Richard S.S. - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#256662) #

In the Game Archive viewing of last night's game, Rajai Davis is following through his hitting stroke, with both hands on the bat, the entire swing.   This is something he discovered he wasn't doing this season.

Through forty games or one-quarter of the season, Adam Lind was found to be lacking and was moved down in the lineup and then to Las Vegas.   The necessity to give Yan Gomes full-time at bats may have him going back to Las Vegas when Lawrie returns.   Colby Rasmus is struggling so Rajai Davis will be getting playing time in Center, Left and Right.   A.A. has said on PTS (Thu) another roster move is likely.   Possibly, a 1B bat?

Beyonder - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#256664) #
Wow. That "tag" by Escobar must have missed by a foot. Nice to have a poor call go in our favour for (what seems like) a change.
Thomas - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:42 PM EDT (#256666) #
I was surprised that Farrell put Thames in the outfield and had Francisco DHing on Friday. He really must not think of Francisco's fielding skills.
Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:44 PM EDT (#256667) #

Some really crappy umpiring in the major leagues this year, and not just the garden variety lousy strike/ball calls. Today's 2nd base ump had one difficult call to make all afternoon, and couldn't even get himself into a decent enough position to make that call. That's absolutely shameful.

For more fun with umpires, check out yesterday's tackle tag in the Cubs-White Sox game. And a play at first in a recent Dogers-Rockies game.

Perhaps umpiring is extremely difficult to do well and this quality of umpiring is as good as humans are capable of. Or perhaps the quality can be higher and a few too many people are in jobs they don't deserve.

Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#256668) #

Arencibia and Davis went a combined 0 for 7 with 6 strikeouts today. Both players seem especially challenged against RHP and Farrell should remain cognizant of this.

I can understand Davis starting against LHP but even as poorly as Rasmus is going, it's not likely that Davis is suddenly going to become a competent hitter against RHP at this point in his career (I imagine Davis' start today was motivated both by Rasmus' slump and Davis' homeruns yesterday). To me, Davis looked today like the Davis that started last season on the heels of having hit a few spring training homeruns, like a player who had elected to cast himself as a slugger. In a Freudian slip, Buck Martinez actually referred to him as Eric Davis. If only.

Arencibia surely deserves to play fulltime, but against RHP I can't see him batting in the heart of the order. He simply does not have the discipline to lay off the breaking pitch low and away.

Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#256669) #

According to ESPN, Brandon Morrow's ERA now sits at 2.63. Having entered the game at 2.22, this seems a tad unusual.

Against the Rays, there was what I thought to be a questionable error charged to Lind that lead to 5 unearned runs. I had been halfway waiting for that call to eventually be reversed (understanding that such a thing can occur even days later), since it seemed more than reasonable to have scored the play a hit. But I also thought that the "price" of changing the call -- 5 earned runs -- might be enough of a deterrant to doing so.

ESPN's math has those 5 unearned runs as 5 earned runs. Has anyone heard of any official scoring change?

Hodgie - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#256670) #
Chuck, I did hear Buck talk about the scoring change early on in the broadcast so I am assuming it must have been an official change.
Chuck - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:23 PM EDT (#256672) #

did hear Buck talk about the scoring change

Thanks. That's only fair. Morrow is pitching exceptionally well this year and his numbers don't require the charity of undeserved unearned runs.

Mike Green - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:29 PM EDT (#256673) #
Nice game from Morrow against a barely recognizeable Mets lineup.  Efficient, but with the Ks to give the defence a breather.

Farrell's theory with regard to Arencibia (one guesses) is that if you put him in "run-producing role", he will be happier and hit better.  I don't buy it. His issue is not lack of motivation, but lack of discipline.  Hopefully, the batting order will get straightened away when Lawrie returns.
greenfrog - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#256674) #
The Jays starting pitching has been great this year, but imagine if they had won the bidding for Darvish. The team would have the #5, 6, 7, 18 and 22 SPs in AL ERA rankings.
Gwyn - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#256675) #
For anyone with mlb.tv or Extra Innings the Rays are doing a special sabermetrics broadcast tomorrow (Sunday) with Sam Fuld in the booth. Fuld interned at Stats during his college career and speands his winters studying for a masters in Statistics at Stanford. The piece he wrote for Grantland was fantastic so this could be really interesting.
robertdudek - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#256678) #
"The league K rate was much lower in the time of El Presidente. While the absolute numbers have relevance, so does the context."

I'll ask what I ask before - why?


It matters because people tend to think that numbers in one era are directly comparable to numbers in other era. They are not - not ever. Everything has to be adjusted for context. If you do not accept this premise, then I have nothing else to say to you on this matter.
92-93 - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#256681) #
That play was an error for me. Sure, it was hit hard, but it was one step to Lind's right and he got full leather on it. I was surprised to hear that Maddon filed an appeal for the scoring of the play, and am really starting to get fed up with Tampa as a whole. This comes after Rodney completely showed up the team after the Lawrie incident and Joe Maddon telling the media he didn't think Lawrie's suspension was long enough.
Thomas - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 08:12 PM EDT (#256682) #
Do you remember Nate Cornejo? I do. (Seriously. I once ran into him on the streets of Toronto a couple of hours after a game when Detroit came to town and vouched that he was actually a MLB ballplayer to the girl he was talking to.)

Anyhow, one writer has noted how comparable Alvarez is, to date, with Nate Cornejo, which isn't a comparison a Jays fan wants to see.

TamRa - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 08:28 PM EDT (#256684) #
" They are not - not ever. Everything has to be adjusted for context. If you do not accept this premise, then I have nothing else to say to you on this matter."

This falls under "everybody knows"?


I said and reiterate that i accept that all numbers are not comparable across eras, but I have not seen it demonstrated that NO numbers are comparable across eras.

That would imply that all statistics are the same in nature and kind and I don't think that's the intended implication.

Take stolen bases for instance. There were more in the days of Vince Coleman and Ricky Henderson, sure - but there were not more because it was inherently easier to steal a base.

it had to do with the style of play and so forth. The bases were not closer together, the fastballs were not slower. there's no reason you can't compare, say, Anthony Gose's ability to steal to, say, Vince Coleman's ability to steal - era or no era.

if this is wrong, someone who is willing to discuss it is invited to draw me a picture.

Magpie - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 09:51 PM EDT (#256691) #
there were not more [stolen bases] because it was inherently easier to steal a base.

Actually, it really might have been easier to steal a base in the 1980s when the game was filled with artificial turf parks.

But it's beyond dispute that it's clearly easier to strike out hitters in the modern game. I believe the reason is because hitters like Brett Butler are now pretty much extinct. And they've been replaced by guys like Mark Reynolds and Austin Jackson. At any rate, the exact same strikeout rate that was once better than the average pitcher is now worse than the average pitcher. Which means that below-average pitcher in that area needs to get an above-average number of outs some other way, that's not required by his contemporaries.

If offensive strategies change, pitching strategies must change as well. I don't think that the approach to pitching used by Robin Roberts, Fergie Jenkins or Catfish Hunter would have been effective over the last 20 years. (It didn't work for Josh Towers, or not for very long anyway.) Roberts and Jenkins were great pitchers, I'm sure would have found another way to win. But it would have been different.
Magpie - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#256692) #
Pitchers can indeed prosper, and have long and outstanding careers with unimpressive strikeout rates. But they can only do so if they make up for it in some pretty specific ways: mainly, they have to avoid the walk and the home run. So what's worrisome about Alvarez at this stage of his career is the combination of the lower than average K rate and the higher than average HR rate. That simply will not play, not in the long term.

On the other hand, he's got a hell of an arm, he throws strikes, and he just turned 22. Very much a work-in-progress at this stage
uglyone - Saturday, May 19 2012 @ 11:51 PM EDT (#256694) #
"I haven't really heard much of an attitude here or other places that suggests most fans think Alvarez sucks or is getting incredibly lucky, although I could be wrong. I think most people recognize that he's a very young and talented pitcher who has been somewhat lucky this year. He has the profile of a pitcher who doesn't need a wealth of strikeouts to succeed in the majors and he has plenty of time to improve his K rate. However, many of us think that improvement must come at some point or he'll struggle to come close to replicating his success so far on a consistent basis."

well said, Thomas.
Nolan - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 12:00 AM EDT (#256695) #
I just noticed on Sportsnet a little blurb saying that Adam Lind has been put on outright waivers. If he's claimed, the Jays are free from his contract, correct?

Who would claim him? The Phillies with Howard still out? Maybe the Dodgers who still have Loney at first would take a chance. Lind has been bad, but still better than Loney over the last couple years I believe. The AL would be better for Lind, but would any team take him....perhaps the Tigers as they stockpile defensively challenged first basemen.
Richard S.S. - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 01:14 AM EDT (#256698) #
robertdudek - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:42 AM EDT (#256700) #
I said and reiterate that i accept that all numbers are not comparable across eras, but I have not seen it demonstrated that NO numbers are comparable across eras.

No numbers are directly comparable across eras. None. This is a sabrmetric first principle. The mere fact that ballparks change such that different eras will feature a very different population of baseball parks, makes it so. Does that count as demonstration enough? Equipment changes, training regimens change, strategies change. Everything changes. The onus is on you to "demonstrate" that something does NOT change.
robertdudek - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:47 AM EDT (#256701) #
Do you remember Nate Cornejo? I do. (Seriously. I once ran into him on the streets of Toronto a couple of hours after a game when Detroit came to town and vouched that he was actually a MLB ballplayer to the girl he was talking to.)

It's amazing that you knew what he looked like. Do you have a talent for facial recognition?
robertdudek - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:50 AM EDT (#256702) #
I just noticed on Sportsnet a little blurb saying that Adam Lind has been put on outright waivers. If he's claimed, the Jays are free from his contract, correct?

Yes, siree!

robertdudek - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 03:53 AM EDT (#256703) #
To sum up my view (and I may be paraphrasing someone):

There is only one absolute, and that is that everything is relative.

TamRa - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:40 AM EDT (#256705) #
"a very different population of baseball parks, makes it so. Does that count as demonstration enough? Equipment changes, training regimens change, strategies change. Everything changes. The onus is on you to "demonstrate" that something does NOT change."

onus on me? i'm not making a positive claim. i'm asking.

To use your answer as an example, how does stadium dimensions, equipment, and so forth affect stolen bases? i acknowledged strategy changes but that doesn't affect ABILITY to steal, only the choice to.

The one thing I see that affects every situation is conditioning and medicine.

But even then, can that account for the ability to pitch effectively with a low K rate? if so, how so?
TamRa - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 04:46 AM EDT (#256706) #
"But it's beyond dispute that it's clearly easier to strike out hitters in the modern game. I believe the reason is because hitters like Brett Butler are now pretty much extinct. And they've been replaced by guys like Mark Reynolds and Austin Jackson. At any rate, the exact same strikeout rate that was once better than the average pitcher is now worse than the average pitcher. Which means that below-average pitcher in that area needs to get an above-average number of outs some other way, that's not required by his contemporaries."



Now see, here's something I can begin to wrap my head around.

YES it is easier to strike out the modern hitter.
YES the Brett Butler types pretty much don't exist.
YEs the same K rate now is below average instead of above average.

All, as you say, beyond dispute.
And not even a subject of debate for me.


what i'm asking is, does the fact that all these things are true demonstrate that a modern pitcher CAN'T succeed with a 4.0 K rate, or just that he would be very unusual if he did?

To wit:

"Which means that below-average pitcher in that area needs to get an above-average number of outs some other way, that's not required by his contemporaries."

This is obvious - but is it obvious that this cannot be done?
Moe - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 06:41 AM EDT (#256707) #
what i'm asking is, does the fact that all these things are true demonstrate that a modern pitcher CAN'T succeed with a 4.0 K rate, or just that he would be very unusual if he did?

Think about this way:
Rank all players who play in the majors at one point in their proneness to being Ked, From Dunn to Ichiro. The 4% guy today is going to be a very different player then the 4% guy back in the 70s and early 80s (or whatever period you want to compare). If you have the skill that it takes to get the 4% guy back in the day to strikeout, today, you would strike more than 4%. Or in the case of Alvarez, if he has the skill to get the 4% guy today, he would not get the 4% guy back then. In that sense the stats are not comparable.  

Note: I'm not saying Alvarez can't figure things out. I'm just trying to explain why you cannot compare K-rate across periods. However, I do agree that if he cannot increase his K rate, he will not survive in the AL East.

scottt - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 09:12 AM EDT (#256709) #
Joe Maddon was very positive about Alvarez.

I don't know if the K rate is that important if the ground ball and double play rates are high. I don't know if the HR rate really matters that much if the homeruns are solo shots.

Strike outs are especially good with runners on base and first base open, but only as long as the manager doesn't call for an IBB.

It's hard for a young pitcher to maintain a sub. 3.0 ERA all season no matter what the peripherals are.

Kerry Wood just retired. He had a great K rate, once threw a 20 K game, but he didn't have a great career in the end.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#256713) #
The AL is running roughshod over the NL so far. Sample size has something to do with it, but there was a very significant talent shift to the AL during the off-season.  Anyways, BBRef has the Jays with the second-best SRS in baseball. 
Chuck - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#256715) #
there was a very significant talent shift to the AL during the off-season

At what point is Sean Foreman going to have to factor into his OPS+ formulation an adjustment for the disparity in league quality? I ask this in all seriousness.

Notwithstanding that the last two World Seriies have been won by NL teams, you can't help but feel that there is such a quality imbalance between the leagues that any player -- pitcher or hitter -- going from the NL to the AL is going to see a decline in his performance, and any player moving in the opposite direction will see an improvement. I'm sure people can cite counter-examples, and I do concede that my opinion is largely subjective.

The NBA has been talent-heavy in the west for a long time. The AL seems even more talent-heavy than that.

Beyonder - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 10:22 AM EDT (#256717) #
Tamra has raised a very interesting question that would be fun to pursue: why is it that El Presidente's low strikeout numbers can't be held up as an example of a great pitching career with low strikeouts (in defense of the Henderson Alvarez model)? Some (not all) of the responses to this question so far retreat into very basic claims about comparisons and relativity. If "context matters" or "everything is relative" were the original claims, I'm sure Tamra would never have asked for an explanation.

For my bit, I will only add that to have this conversation we need to distinguish between two different concepts: 1) comparisons of absolute K/9 rates across eras (i.e., comparing Tommy John's K/9 to Alavarez's -- which I agree is not so helpful); and 2) comparing a pitcher's K/9 rates to the league average within a single era, and noting that there are some great pitchers who manage to get by striking out far fewer than the league average. If that worked for them as a matter of strategy, why would it not work today?

I thought this was interesting on the latter question:
http://www.highheatstats.com/2012/02/normalized-strikeout-rates-of-the-all-time-greats/






Thomas - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#256719) #
It's amazing that you knew what he looked like. Do you have a talent for facial recognition?

Not particularly, I don't think. Cornejo is about 6'6 with a shaved head. (He may have alopecia. I'm not sure.) It's a distinct look, so it wasn't too hard to put to 2 and 2 together when you see a big guy like that hanging around right near a downtown hotel.

Chuck - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 11:01 AM EDT (#256720) #

why is it that El Presidente's low strikeout numbers can't be held up as an example of a great pitching career with low strikeouts (in defense of the Henderson Alvarez model)?

I look at it this way and forgive the generalities employed to make my argument. I'm just talking broad strokes here.

If Dennis Martinez or Tommy John or whoever, back in the day, was striking out just 4 per 9 IP, there were plenty of balls in play. But many of those were not produced by hitters swinging from the heels, as they now do. So the price of "pitching to contact" was less severe.

The culture now is that almost everyone is swinging as hard as they can almost all the time. So K rates are through the roof. If you are not striking these players out -- and they are more than happy to give you the opportunity to strike them out -- you are letting them make contact with their tremendous swings (in Alvarez's case, an extra 4 times per 27 outs). This approach can succeed if you can do like Chien-Ming Wang used to do, limits walks and ridiculously limit homeruns, stranding a high percentage of your baserunners.

Now, Alvarez's success has largely been due to a very high GB/FB ratio (despite which his HR/9 rate is not great), a low LD rate, a low BABIP, a high GIDP rate and a high LOB rate.

And this is where there appear to be, generally speaking, two schools of thought. There are those who argue that he has skills that natually result in a low BABIP, that he has the ability to induce weak contact. And there are those who argue that he doesn't, that contact is contact. The former camp says that we may be looking at a new type of pitcher who succeeds in a different way. The latter camp says that his success -- pitching in this particular way -- is not sustainable.

Above and beyond the aforementioned division of opinions, is the long term view of Alvarez' career. I don't think that too many are arguing that the profile he has thus far exhibited (with respect to his peripherals) will be his profile in perpetuity, and therefore that his demise is imminent (the premise being that this profile has not historically proven to be sutainable). I would think that most see a very young pitcher with a broad range of skills and with the tools required to reshape the profile of his peripherals to one that augurs better for the long term.

Beyonder - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#256723) #
Thanks Chuck. Why is it that you attribute the higher K rates to hitters swinging from their heels, and not to pitchers getting bigger, stronger, and throwing harder than they ever have?

Is it true that the price of pitching to contact has escalated over time? Is there a statistic that captures this? I guess it would be a measure of runs produced per ball put into play?

greenfrog - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#256724) #
Beyonder, good post. One issue (which will play itself out over time) is: what is Alvarez's career K rate going to look like? In the minors, he struck out 6.5/9 IP (he was actually quite consistent in this regard - apart from a very brief stint in Dunedin last year, his rate was 6.2 to 7.0 annually). Last year in the majors, he struck out 5.7 / 9 IP. This year, it's 2.5.

Sometimes K rates can go up a significant amount during a pitcher's first few seasons (this happened to Greinke, for example).

Just for the heck of it, here are the pitchers on fangraphs' WAR leaderboard in recent years with unusually low K rates (say below 4) and at least 1 WAR. Keep in mind that the best SPs in any given year are 5+ WAR, with the best of the best compiling around 6-9 WAR.

...

2011: None

2010: None

2009: None

2008: L. Hernandez (3.35 K / 1.5 WAR)

2007: Silva (3.97 K / 3.3 WAR), Cook (3.31 K / 2.5 WAR)

2006: Wang (3.14 K / 4.7 WAR), Cook (3.89 K / 4.3 WAR)

2005: Silva (3.39 K / 3.0 WAR), Jason Johnson (3.99 K / 2.9 WAR)

2004: Silva (3.37 K / 3.4 WAR), K. Rueter (2.65 K / 1.1 WAR)

2003: B. Anderson (3.96 K / 2.3 WAR), Cornejo (2.13 K / 1.9 WAR)

2002: K. Rueter (3.36 K / 1.5 WAR), Hampton (3.73 K / 1.3 WAR)

Obviously this doesn't really address TamRa's question (comparing success and K rates across eras), but it does show just how rare success is in today's game among SPs with K rates below 4/9 IP.
Chuck - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 12:14 PM EDT (#256726) #

Why is it that you attribute the higher K rates to hitters swinging from their heels, and not to pitchers getting bigger, stronger, and throwing harder than they ever have?

You're right that there are probably two factors at play here: a go-for-broke hitting philosphy AND a likely (more pronounced) bias towards hard-throwing pitchers. And to the latter point, maybe we can blame technology. Pitch speeds are available on TV, at the game, and in databases like never before and are a part of the conversation like never before. When I was growing up, you'd hear the odd gem like "J.R. RIchard was once clocked at a 100 MPH". But there was never a sense of how hard, exactly, pitchers were throwing. A consequence of the digital revolution is arguably an increase in TTO players, who are interesting from an analytical perspective if not always from a game-watching perspective.

I would still argue that the go-for-broke hitting philosophy is the greater contributor to the escalation in K rates. Did we see Michael Bourn/Austin Jackson types in days gone by? Hitters with ridiculous K/HR ratios would not have been culturally acceptable as they are now. Jackson has a higher career K rate than even Dave Kingman.

And one more point on Alvarez: while he profiles as a soft tosser, he is one of the hardest throwers on the team. That alone separates him from the one-and-dones that Magpie recently cited (Dave Fleming and his ilk) and suggests that if a change in pitching style is required, because a 2.4 K/9 turns out to be not terribly sustainable, the raw material is there to make that change. The Dave Flemings of the world had no plan B.

 

greenfrog - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#256730) #
That has to have been one of the most annoying first innings of the year:

- Alvarez nibbling to the leadoff hitter (Torres), ultimately walking him

- Rasmus's giving back his nice catch, letting it pop out of his glove (simple loss of concentration), giving the Mets a freebie third run

- Bautista whiffing on a juicy 2-2 fastball right down broadway with two runners on

- EE striking out by waving on consecutive big breaking balls down and away

- J.P. "I'm a run producer" Arencibia hitting a dribbly cue ball down to first for the final out. Leadoff runners never advance past first and second.

3-0 Mets.
TamRa - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#256731) #
We have seen a talented hard thrower like Brandon Morrow seek (and hopefully find) a sweet spot between K-happy dominance and pitch-to-contact efficiency.

It serves as an illustration of how almost all pitchers go through an evolution of process until they find the spot where they are most effective.

Alvarez is just at the beginning of that curve.
Nolan - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 05:28 PM EDT (#256732) #
...And one of theworst ninth innings of the year.

The first two batters grind out a walk and a tough single on a two strike pitch, and then the next three hitters whiff on masive two strike swings.

Just a horrible approach.
Magpie - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 05:41 PM EDT (#256733) #
If Dennis Martinez or Tommy John or whoever, back in the day, was striking out just 4 per 9 IP

Which is probably the absolute minimum a pitcher can get away with. Martinez and John both struck out more hitters than that anyway, in an era when strikeouts were harder to come by. And they both struck out almost twice as many hitters as they walked, which is crucial.

It's not just the K rate - it's the combination of the lower than average K rate and the higher than average HR rate that creates problems. If you don't strike out as many hitters as the other pitchers, you must - you absolutely must - give up fewer home runs and fewer walks. That's how you get away with giving up more base hits. Otherwise, there will be trouble, as Robo-Cop once said.
hypobole - Sunday, May 20 2012 @ 11:31 PM EDT (#256738) #
More hitters swinging from their heels may well be because teams are both using and encouraging these players more in today's game. Victor Wang did a study a few years back that concluded as run scoring environment decreases, which is now the case, OBP becomes less important and SLG% more important.
bpoz - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 09:14 AM EDT (#256747) #
The explanation for Alvarez's poor outing was location & movement not being good enough.
I listened to the game but there is a lot I cannot remember. Looking at the stats, 9 Gb but 0 Fly outs, 4 of the 9 hits were doubles and 1 triple. But some more location rather than hard hit, I think.

OK, so he did not pitch well, but was he more unlucky than lucky?
I expected FF to blow the save.
Beyonder - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#256749) #
Alvarez was unlucky in the sense that Rasmus had a brain cramp and let go of a ball he had secured. A catch in football, but apparently not in baseball. Also, both Escobar and Johnson failed to turn double plays that they usually make. But make no mistake, Alvarez was hit around pretty good. Instead of pounding the bottom of the zone, he left a good number of pitches up high.

He started off the game really dialing it up. His first pitch was 98. That's a speed he can hit, but not one at which he pitches particularly effectively. I much prefer the guy who sits at 93-94 and relentlessly pounds the bottom fifth of the strike zone.
bpoz - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 10:49 AM EDT (#256750) #
I remember now. 98mph was a ball. 2IP and the pitch count was at 46 or so.
He said that he would learn from this. What ever he does, video, side sessions, I just think he was a bit off and should not worry much. 1 poor start per month is OK with me.
Hodgie - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#256752) #
It was pretty obvious that Alvarez was not getting any close calls yesterday, especially at the bottom of the strike zone. For the first time that I have witnessed he was visibly frustrated on the mound and seemed to start elevating his pitches to compensate for what he perceived as poor calls. As far as learning experiences there have been much worse.
92-93 - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#256761) #
Rasmus did what every fielder does a million times, trying to drop the ball from the top of his glove into the pocket after he had already secured it. It was a ridiculous call, and ridiculous to say that he had a brain camp. There's going to be a lot of hate spewed Rasmus' way over the next few weeks, so let's stay focused on what he's actually doing poorly.
greenfrog - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 01:29 PM EDT (#256766) #
During the SN broadcast both Martinez and Tabler firmly stated it was the right call - i.e., that Rasmus had not established control of the baseball. While I don't always love the anodyne broadcasting style of Buck and Tabby, I respect the views of two former players on the issue. They should know - as should Rasmus.
92-93 - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 02:02 PM EDT (#256768) #
With all due respect to Buck & Tabby (in otherwords, none), they need to read the rules of baseball.

"In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball and that his release of the ball is voluntary and intentional."
Beyonder - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#256769) #
In Rasmus's comments after the game, he said the ump explained to him precisely what Tab said: that you either need to take the ball out of your glove hand with your free hand, or wait for the out to be called. Rasmus accepts that this is the rule. I don't see this as being inconsistent with the quote you have posted 92-93.
Gerry - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#256771) #
I was at the game and I thought it was a catch but when I looked at the replay last night I changed my mind. Rasmus tried to open his glove to get the ball to drop into the pocket while he has still sliding on the turf. That caused the ball to come out. Because it was the third out Rasmus should have either waited for the umpires call or waited to stop sliding before opening his glove.
92-93 - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#256772) #
I see what the ump supposedly told Rasmus as being inconsistent with the rule, which Rasmus satisfied.
Beyonder - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 03:32 PM EDT (#256773) #
Don't take my word for it. Here's what Colby said:

"He explained the rule to me as if I didn't go in and reach to take it out (with my bare hand), then it's not a catch," Rasmus said following the game. "I felt like I caught it and as I was sliding, it kind of worked its way out a little bit and then by the time I stopped, I just went to re-grab it in my glove. But the rule's the rule and he made the call."
vw_fan17 - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#256775) #
I was at the game and I thought it was a catch but when I looked at the replay last night I changed my mind.

I wasn't at the game, but felt the same way. Initially, it looked like a catch, but after replay, it looked like he was still "juggling" the ball on the way down/during the slide, and it never sat still for more than a fraction of a second. I actually believe the ump made the CORRECT call.
JB21 - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#256783) #
After some nice attendance figures over this past homestand the Jays are now up 100k in attendance versus last year, which is the 6 biggest increase year over year in the MLB. They're up 4600+ fans per game so far.

Total attendance is still 20th in the MLB at 25k per game (20k per LY) through 22 home games.
John Northey - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 11:01 PM EDT (#256786) #
For the other side of attendance ...
just 10k at the game in Tampa. For a team that has consistently been in the playoffs and is in playoff position once again. The worst for the Jays is just over 15k.
AWeb - Monday, May 21 2012 @ 11:09 PM EDT (#256787) #
On the subject of Tampa's fans - the annoying Tampa Bay yeller seems to be back. Whether it's the same guy as past years or not, he makes watching Tampa home game broadcasts unpleasant. Crowd noise - good. Being yelled at by some random guy - bad. I guess he's a season ticket holder or something, and he doesn't seem to be profane, but ugh. I just turn off the game. I can't imagine anyone sitting around him is having much fun either.

I have no idea why Sportsnet can't get their act together and block his noise from the live broadcast - that can't be undoable, can it? I'd rather watch on mute, or not at all.

Oh, and nice win for the Jays. Now if they can only get that elusive second win in a Tampa series...

hypobole - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 12:12 AM EDT (#256789) #
Not only does the mute button provide relief from that iron-lunged annoyance, but a pleasant respite from Buck and Pat as well. Win-win.
Chuck - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 06:50 AM EDT (#256796) #

the annoying Tampa Bay yeller seems to be back

He is someone pathologically in need of attention, isn't he? I found him far more pathetic and annoying than funny and clever (imagine owning season tickets beside his!). It was a pleasant several years that he'd been away, presumably fighting his legal battles. Just google "Happy Heckler" to learn this guy's story. He's actually from Toronto.

Chuck - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 07:01 AM EDT (#256797) #

Not only does the mute button provide relief from that iron-lunged annoyance, but a pleasant respite from Buck and Pat as well.

I wish I had thought of the mute button when they started talking about Moneyball. Well, what they thought Moneyball was about. Why bother reading a book when you can just make stuff up?

MatO - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#256801) #

I wish I had thought of the mute button when they started talking about Moneyball. Well, what they thought Moneyball was about. Why bother reading a book when you can just make stuff up?

That's precisely when I turned the volume down to 1.  The Blue Jays are taking first pitch strikes because of Moneyball.

John Northey - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 09:52 AM EDT (#256802) #
More Attendance...
After making the playoffs 3 of the past 4 years and having that thrilling finish last year Tampa has improved by 3230 fans a game, all the way up to 20,519 a game. That puts them 26th in MLB vs last years 30th after 22 home dates.

For reference, the Jays are 20th with 25,395 a game, up 4,643 a game. Baltimore is 25th at 21,218 a game, up 2,006 (guess they don't buy the team is for real yet). Boston is #7 and actually has more tickets sold per game despite ever game being a 'sell out' for years (up 145 a game - probably standing room tickets). NYY are 5th and down 946 a game (41,116 a game).

For MLB you have pathetic (Cleveland at 15,873 a game), poor (9 teams sub 25k a game), so-so (6 at 25-30k a game), solid (8 at 30-40k) and great (5 at 40-45k a game, maxed out at Philly with 44,955 a game).

Biggest climbers are the teams that blew lots in the winter, Miami, Detroit, Texas and Washington (who didn't blow big this winter vs last). The Jays are 8th for biggest gain, and it wouldn't take much to climb to 6th (closer than 9th is). Just 11 teams going down vs 19 climbing, worst drop being the Angels thus proving spending big != increased attendance every time.
John Northey - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 09:54 AM EDT (#256803) #
Missed that - guess the announcers never heard of a guy who used to do that in the 1930/40/50/60's by the name of Ted Williams. He would take the first pitch until he thought pitchers were taking advantage of it then would crack a homer off one just to keep them honest. Guess Teddy Ballgame was the guy who wrote Moneyball :)
ayjackson - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#256809) #

The Jays have started a stretch of their schedule where they could potentially have 31 consecutive games against teams .500 or better at the time they play them.  The only team in that stretch currently under .500 is the Phillies, and they're only a game down. 

Rays-Yankees-Mets-Rays-Rangers-Orioles-Redsox-Whitesox-Braves-Nationals-Phillies.

John Northey - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 12:06 PM EDT (#256812) #
Glurg. Now _this_ is gut check time for the Jays. Didn't notice just how tough a stretch this is.

Rays: playoffs last year, in wild card slot now
Yankees: 97 wins last year, 500 right now
Mets: 77 wins last year, 22-20 right now
Rangers: In WS 2 years running, best team in MLB right now
Orioles: 69 wins last year, 1st in East this year
Red Sox: 90 wins last year, 500 right now
White Sox: 79 wins last year, 500 right now
Atlanta: 89 wins last year, 26-17 right now
Nationals: 80 wins last year, 25-17 right now
Phillies: 102 wins last year, 21-22 right now

The Orioles, Mets, and White Sox should've been the easy ones but it appears the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies are this year. Who'd have thunk?

Of course, when the Yankees have Jay rejects Jayson Nix and Dewayne Wise on the roster plus 8 pitchers on the DL you know it is a tough year for them.
John Northey - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#256813) #
Of note: Boston has 5 outfielders on the DL, 1 infielder, and 6 pitchers. Maybe they should encourage Wakefield to unretire.

Tampa meanwhile has 4 outfielders, 2 infielders, 2 catchers, and 2 pitchers on the DL.

The Jays? 4 pitchers (Litsch, McGowan, Santos, and Farina)
uglyone - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 12:56 PM EDT (#256815) #
considering some of the players on the lists for the Yanks and Sox, I'd probably include Cecil and Snider as jays injuries as well.
uglyone - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 12:59 PM EDT (#256816) #
The rays "injured list" also includes a number of very bad players, who aren't in any way better than the guys currently replacing them on the bench - names like keppinger, fuld, brignac, lobaton, allen, guyer, chirinos who are all "injured" are pretty much interchangeable with the guys who have replaced them in Sutton, Rhymes, Giminez, Vogt. Most of them not really MLB calibre players on either list, and most of whom even the AAAA label is a stretch.

Longoria, Jennings, Niemann, and Farnsworth, though, are all legit injuries.

John Northey - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 01:02 PM EDT (#256820) #
Yeah, quality of injured players is a big factor. Still, the raw number can indicate nightmares for a club as they try to deal with shuffling players between levels who they hoped not to have to thus reducing depth at all levels and leading to bigger issues down the road potentially.

Or it just could be me going 'you gotta be kidding' when I saw Wise & Nix on the Yankees.
Hodgie - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#256822) #
Completely off-topic - going to the Sea vs LAA game on Thursday at Safeco and it will be the first time there for my wife and I. Any "can't miss" experiences to check out while we are at the ballpark? Would have loved to see King Felix but unfortunately the cruise schedule was not very accommodating of such things.
JB21 - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 01:26 PM EDT (#256823) #

Been there once, gorgous park. As far as good goes the park is known for their Garlic Fries so give them a try and I'd also suggest a quick 15 minute google search for any notes or quirks of the park that may peak your interest to check out.

Chuck - Tuesday, May 22 2012 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#256825) #

Longoria, Jennings, Niemann, and Farnsworth, though, are all legit injuries.

Keppinger plays an important role as a platoon player and is missed. His OPS vs LHB this year is 991 and for his career it's 860. On a team with Joyce, Scott and Pena, he's a nice RH counter balance.

MatO - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#256855) #
The Jays could have an issue scoring runs in today's game since their major offensive contibutor over the last 2 games, Sean Rodriguez, is not in the starting lineup this afternoon.
JB21 - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 02:45 PM EDT (#256866) #
Ricky Ro seems to be having control issues this year, He's walking a lot more guys while striking out less. 4.6 walks per 9 and a 1.4 K/BB ratio. This is not counting today's 4 walks in 4 innings (7 K's as well).
Mike Green - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#256867) #
Notwithstanding Romero's control issues, the reason that the score is 4-2 is the uncommonly timely hitting by the Rays.  They have two doubles, and that is it, and both were in key situations- runners on first and second, scoring both runners and runner on first and nobody out, leading to the other two runs.

The Jays have been outperforming their slash lines this year, and today the shoe is on the other foot.

scottt - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#256870) #
If you start every inning by walking a batter, every double is likely to score a run.

92-93 - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#256872) #
Embarrassing effort from Eric Thames on the game winning hit. All spring we were told Eric Thames hasn't done anything to lose the LF job. Well, it's May 23rd and he's hitting .252/.299/.378, while providing well below average defense in an outfield corner. Unacceptable, and yet everyone is focused on Colby Rasmus.

Hechavarria might be on his way to the bigs if KJ needs a DL stint for the hammy. Could be why he started at 2B last night.
Mike Green - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 05:49 PM EDT (#256875) #
Embarrassing effort from Eric Thames on the game winning hit

I didn't see that.  I saw a ball that Thames played just fine, and that no left-fielder in the league would have had a chance at getting Thompson at the plate.  It may be that he was positioned too far toward left-centre with Upton facing a tiring Oliver, but that is probably not his fault.

It sure would have been nice to have Igarashi in the bullpen instead of Evan Crawford.  I'd like to know how he might have done facing Upton in that situation. 
92-93 - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 05:59 PM EDT (#256876) #
We must have watched different plays, because Thames was jogging towards the ball like he knew what you knew - that there was practically no chance of preventing a run there. I still want to see hustle, especially when it's the game winning hit.

Igarashi's career 6 BB/9 would fit right in on this staff. He was good in the minors last year too before proceeding to post a 6.5 BB/9 with a 1.84 WHIP in the NL.
Hodgie - Wednesday, May 23 2012 @ 09:38 PM EDT (#256879) #
I was more disappointed in Thames on Sutton's double in the first. It sure didn't seem like he had a very good break on the ball and the hit seemed to highlight his limited range. He is a complete liability in the field and considering his lack of production at the plate one has to wonder how much more rope he is going to be given.

Oh, and Tampa Bay can go away now. Malum quo communius eo peius I say to this confounding conglomerate of auspicious baseball talent. At the risk of having to endure another 17 years of this, I am beginning to suspect Maddon of making his own Faustian deal everytime I see some replacement level hack impersonate the Babe against the Jays.

hypobole - Thursday, May 24 2012 @ 01:33 AM EDT (#256884) #
"Igarashi's career 6 BB/9 would fit right in on this staff. He was good in the minors last year too before proceeding to post a 6.5 BB/9 with a 1.84 WHIP in the NL."

2011
Player A - 79 ERA+, 6.5 BB/9, 1.84 WHIP, 9.8 K/9, 0.5 HR/9
Player B - 85 ERA+, 7.9 BB/9, 1.69 WHIP, 7.3 K/9, 0.3 HR/9

Player A is Igarashi, B is Fernando Rodney. I'm not saying Igarashi would be as successful as Rodney has been this year, but when pitchers have nasty stuff, sometimes you can catch lightning in a bottle.
Chuck - Thursday, May 24 2012 @ 06:50 AM EDT (#256887) #

I am beginning to suspect Maddon of making his own Faustian deal everytime I see some replacement level hack impersonate the Babe against the Jays

I think Maddon's deals with devil are focused on ensuring bullpen success. How many relievers can this man rescue from the scrap heap? His offense, these days, looks like 9 guys named Mike McCoy rather than anything Babian in nature.

Mike Green - Thursday, May 24 2012 @ 08:59 AM EDT (#256892) #
I do not see what the attraction is with Crawford, either from a stuff or performance perspective.  If one is trying to win now and one believes that a third lefty in the pen would be highly desirable, why not bring back Cecil to put him in a long man role for the time being? 

In the absence of Longoria and Jennings, Tampa listed left heavily. Unfortunately the Jays threw 2 right-handed starters and Romero with his reverse splits, and had Perez and Oliver (and an unreliable Crawford) coming out of the pen.  This could have been handled better.

Advance Scout: Mets, May 18-20 | 136 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.