Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Boras Seeing Red After Madson Becomes A Red

Boras Seeing Red After Madson Becomes A Red

Even though Ryan Madson has found gainful employment for 2012, agent Scott Boras is taking issue with the Philadelphia Phillies after the free-agent closer signed a one-year deal with Cincinnati for $8.5 million. Boras claims the Phillies backed out of a four-year, $44 million deal with his client before signing Jonathan Papelbon away from the Boston Red Sox. Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. says no such offer was made.

Ryan Madson saved 32 games for the Phillies in 2011, posting a 4-2 record with a 2.37 ERA along with 62 strikeouts in 60 2/3 innings

In other news...

The Washington Nationals do not like the price tag of Scott Boras client, Prince Fielder.
Los Angeles Angels first baseman Kendrys Morales avoids a trip to Arby's.
Ballpark Digest says things are not looking up for Ottawa in terms of getting an affiliated franchise for 2013.

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 03:46 PM EST.

Boras Seeing Red After Madson Becomes A Red | 36 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 03:57 PM EST (#250413) #

The Reds appear to be in "Go for it in '12" mode ...

And now what of Francisco Cordero? His '11 included 37 saves and a low-2 ERA ... does he settle for being someone's setup man?

Chuck - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 04:00 PM EST (#250414) #

Boras claims the Phillies backed out of a four-year, $44 million deal with his client before signing Jonathan Papelbon away from the Boston Red Sox. Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. says no such offer was made.

Lying liars lying. GMs. Agents. It's what they do.

Chuck - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 04:06 PM EST (#250415) #

And now what of Francisco Cordero? His '11 included 37 saves and a low-2 ERA

And an unsustainable .214 BABIP (.294 lifetime). He does keep the ball in the yard, which is especially impressive in that park, but his K rate has dropped in each of the past four years. He'll help a bullpen, of that there is no doubt, but little about him screams closer at this point.

greenfrog - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 04:13 PM EST (#250416) #

I wonder what Prince's best standing offer is. The Cubs just traded for Rizzo, and there have been rumblings that Washington and Seattle aren't inclined to bid big on him. I'm sure several teams would pay him a high AAV for 3-5 years, though. Would the Jays bid 3 years/$90M or 5 years/$125M? Would Fielder accept? Either deal would be exciting for Jays fans, but neither seems particularly parameter-friendly. (Is this a bad time to mention that Rogers stock has increased in value 190% over the last ten years, while the team's payroll has actually declined over that stretch?)

I still think he'll get 6-8 years at a high AAV (perhaps from Texas?), but it's interesting to speculate on possible outcomes.

John Northey - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 04:58 PM EST (#250417) #

Given Fielder will cost a draft pick I'd want 3-5 years rather than a 1 year deal (as some have speculated he might go for).

Not sure what will happen, but I'm betting on Washington at this point as they seem to love spending money and need to convince fans they are not just there to avoid having a team in Montreal.

Mike Green - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 04:58 PM EST (#250418) #

The contents of the Boras article do not support a contradiction. Boras says that the player accepted 4 yrs/$44 million, but he did not say that the club had offered it. Amaro says that we did not offer that. There were rumours that they would. The usual rules of offer and acceptance apply.

Chuck - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 05:14 PM EST (#250421) #

I have a standing acceptance for a 4/44 contract. Just waiting on that first offer to come in...

Mike Green - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 05:22 PM EST (#250424) #

Me, too. And I'll promise to donate half to charity.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 05:49 PM EST (#250426) #

Mike, Chuck, I will offer you BOTH four years at forty-four dollars! Do I get to pick the charity?

Glevin - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 05:54 PM EST (#250427) #

"I still think he'll get 6-8 years at a high AAV (perhaps from Texas?), but it's interesting to speculate on possible outcomes."

I agree. There doesn't seem to be a real frontrunner right now. I think Texas gets him if the Darvish deal falls through but I think that's unlikely. The Nationals make sense as they are obviously quite willing to spend on Boras clients. I assume Fielder wants to go to a team that might be able to contend soon so Seattle and Baltimore don't make much sense for him. Outside of Baltimore, Seattle, Washington, Texas, Milwaukee, and Toronto, I don't see anyone else even interested/able to afford in Fielder.

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 05:55 PM EST (#250429) #

Maybe he can DH in Bronx pinstripes! :-)

greenfrog - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 06:58 PM EST (#250430) #

Well, Bronx pinstripes are very slimming:)

Imagine paying a player named "Fielder" $25M or so per year and having him DH full-time. The cognitive dissonance is almost too much to bear.

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 09:26 PM EST (#250436) #

Boras claims... ...Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. says...

If I made an offer of (insert possible offer here) to your client, would he accept it? If makes any claims invalid.

Do you ever trust what Boras says?

Thomas - Wednesday, January 11 2012 @ 11:47 PM EST (#250437) #

On a side note, the Red Sox have acquired Brad Emaus from the Rockies for a PTBNL or cash.

Lylemcr - Thursday, January 12 2012 @ 12:21 PM EST (#250457) #

Boros deserves to lose that. It just shows that having Boros might get you a lot of money or might get you nothing.

China fan - Thursday, January 12 2012 @ 04:48 PM EST (#250476) #

On another subject: does anyone know anything about the mini-camp that's now happening in Dunedin? I notice that d'Arnaud and Magnuson are among the prospects who are there, working out at Florida Auto Exchange Stadium. Does anyone know who else is there? And does it offer any hint of the Jays assessment of the potential of their top prospects?

On a similar subject, Mike McDade's twitter feed seems to suggest that he is currently in Toronto for a mini-camp or rookie development program of some kind. Toronto? Seems a little weird. Is it indoors somewhere? Or is it a instructional session on off-the-field matters such as media relations and financial management? Just guessing, but grateful if anyone can enlighten me on the mini-camps.

Brent S - Thursday, January 12 2012 @ 05:23 PM EST (#250480) #

China fan: Wilner said he will have interviews and coverage up on his blog later tonight.

Ron - Thursday, January 12 2012 @ 08:22 PM EST (#250482) #

Do I need to get my ears checked or did AA on the Fan 590 today say the Jays payroll is in the high 80's?

I thought McCown asked all the right questions.

ayjackson - Thursday, January 12 2012 @ 11:40 PM EST (#250489) #

I guess if you include $2.9m for Int'l signees and about $10m for draftees, the payroll will be in the high 80's. So I guess we're including draftees and int'l signees now.

whiterasta80 - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 11:17 AM EST (#250497) #

The one interesting thing I found with AA on the fan yesterday was when he was (not) talking about what he bid on Yu.

He said something to the effect of: I don't understand why a GM would bid in the 40s, either you exceed Daisuke's bid (which Texas did) or you go way under. If you bid in the 40s you might as well bid over the benchmark and try to make up those dollars in the contract.

I think he was using this as a way of downplaying what we bid (i.e. if we bid at all it was low 30s or less), and I suspect that he is right about that philosophy. I do believe that most GMs bid in the 30s, while Texas exceeded the Daisuke bid.

AA likes to go against conventional wisdom with his moves however, so I think there's a good chance that we did actually bid in the 40s based on that response. Not that it matters since Texas decided to get aggressive.

Ron - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 12:46 PM EST (#250503) #

"I guess if you include $2.9m for Int'l signees and about $10m for draftees, the payroll will be in the high 80's. So I guess we're including draftees and int'l signees now."

I imagine AA is well aware of the fans complaining about Rogers being cheap so he gave out a figure that included international and draft signings. I can't disagree with the number he gave out and although this is the first time I heard a GM or Exec include those signings when giving out a payroll number.

greenfrog - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 01:41 PM EST (#250505) #

As far as I'm aware, no other team or media source (including Cot's) reports team payroll figures this way. Hopefully someone in the media will follow up: "Alex, when you say the payroll will be in the high-80s in 2012, does that include projected spending on the draft and IFAs? If so, what is the total payroll for the 25/40-man roster alone? Thanks."

bpoz - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 02:12 PM EST (#250506) #

Thanks Brent S. The interviews with the kids were all good. Goes has unbridled enthusiasm and Hutchison gives nothing away. If Kevin Gray of NH is right about Hutch throwing complete games in TO one day, I for one will enjoy Hutch's low key interviews.

AA was interesting, he gave the impression that he still has $ left to spend. The $88mil, I heard must have included the Arb estimates.

AA also revealed KJ will play 2B, Rasmus CF and the rotation will be Romero, Morrow, Cecil, McGowan and Alvarez. T d'Arnaud will be in LV for all of 2012, JPA spent 2 years in LV.
After Feb 1st most Gms have their rosters set so very few trades occur.

92-93 - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 02:30 PM EST (#250507) #

International FAs & draftees are not on the payroll; they receive signing bonuses. If AA was trying to be sneaky by including those future players in his "current payroll" I would be pretty disappointed. It would have helped if McCown/Cox actually knew a thing about the Blue Jays and could've pressed AA further.

John Northey - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 02:43 PM EST (#250509) #

Yeah, at this point I figure the team is mostly set. We'll see if Lind/EE can play everyday for a couple months, if Lawrie is for real, if Johnson & Rasmus can bounce back, if Thames or Snider can win LF outright, if Alverez is for real, if McGowan is back all the way, if Morrow can ever get his ERA to match his FIP, if Cecil is a solid #3, etc.

Mid-season, depending on those answers, things will get very interesting. Mid-season in the AA era is always the most interesting time.

China fan - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 03:46 PM EST (#250514) #

If you add together the latest hints from Anthopoulos yesterday -- his talk of a payroll in the high 80s, and his statement that he is "hopeful that something will break in 2 to 3 weeks" -- it sounds like he is alluding to the possible signing of a free agent for $8 to $10 million. Roy Oswalt maybe? In any event, he's definitely trying to acquire someone, and a starting pitcher is the most logical target. And it's difficult to see how AA can envision a payroll in the high 80s without the addition of an extra $10-million for a new player.

TamRa - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 03:59 PM EST (#250515) #

"AA was interesting, he gave the impression that he still has $ left to spend. The $88mil, I heard must have included the Arb estimates."

No, even with Arb-estimates you can't break 80. I've got it at $76.7 for the projected 25 man roster, but i can't conceive of any way those same 25 could cost as much as $80 mil unless there's a long-term signing with an unusually high first year (Morrow perhaps)

My knee-jerk supposition is that he misspoke...possibly he had in mind the budget he had available even though he hasn't found a smart place to spend it.

----

the point I kept thinking about last night was his blatant comment about the horrible outfield defense. CF is fixed now, but he didn't say CF he said outfield.

Makes me think two things-

1. He's only saying Thames it the incumbent in LF to light a fire under Snider and to stroke Eric for doing a really good job on the year. He acknowledged Travis is the better fielder and to me this sets up a situation where if they have similar springs (not just statistically but in the yes of management) at the plate, the (legitimate) justification for starting Snider would be defense, and the justification (beyond roster space) for whatever amount of time Thames spends in Vegas can safely be described as "sure, he's killing the ball but he's there to work on defense"

2. I'm developing more and more of an opinion that when (if) Gose is ready to be promoted and can't legitimately be held back, if Rasmus returns to form the Jays will shift Rasmus to RF and do something else (DH? 1B?) with Bautista.

Beyonder - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 04:17 PM EST (#250516) #

Did anyone else come away from the AA interview with the impression that Toronto did not bid on Darvish at all? I've listened to it three times now, and do not understand AA's comments about the strategy of the posting bid. He said that given that the benchmark was roughly 50 million (the Dice-K bid), it made no sense to bid something in the 40s. Instead, as a matter of strategy, you needed to top 50 million, or bid much lower. I understand why it makes sense to bid 50+ in order to beat the benchmark, but cannot understand why the next best strategy would be to bid below 40. Can anyone help?

greenfrog - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 04:17 PM EST (#250517) #

I would rather see E-Jax than Oswalt, but only if he can sign him for 3 years or fewer. You can always move him in a trade if the rotation gets too crowded. On a one-year deal, I would just as soon as see Kuroda than Oswalt (whose health going forward I wonder about).

My comments above aren't meant to be critical of AA. I think he's doing a great job overall. While in one respect I don't mind him being vague about payroll (ie, for strategic/stealth reasons), I think having some clarity on the numbers might stoke some more fan and media criticism, which in turn might wake ownership up a bit. We Canadians can be overly polite about such things. If Rogers thinks it can go cheap and keep fans happy with a reasonably competitive (but not elite) team, it will.

John Northey - Friday, January 13 2012 @ 04:26 PM EST (#250518) #

My impression is he bid around $30 mil for Darvish as a 'just in case no one goes for it' type thing ala what the Yankees were rumoured to do. $10 mil a year for a starting pitcher (posting = contract over 5/6 years is a general rule) is a good deal if he has the potential to be an ace.

It is possible he didn't bid, but given how strong the rumours of the Jays winning seemed to be I have to think they did bid. Of course, AA might also have set up a couple of staffers (not inner circle) with false information to see who might leak information to the media and to which media. I know if I was in his shoes I sure would do that from time to time especially if I was a 'control the rumour mill' type person like AA is.

Richard S.S. - Saturday, January 14 2012 @ 08:44 PM EST (#250608) #

A.A. said something like spending $60.0 MM over 5 years on Darvish and something like not going to $100.0MM influenced/determined his bid. So let's assume TamRa's salary estimates are closest and the $12.0 MM/ year/Darvish is accurate and the budget we can assume A.A. has is $87-90 MM. to spend this year.

gnor - Tuesday, January 17 2012 @ 12:57 PM EST (#250704) #

$4.4 million works out to a bit over $4,400 per pitch. I offered to go in and throw his intentional walks for him to save his arm, but no reply yet.

gnor - Tuesday, January 17 2012 @ 01:06 PM EST (#250706) #

It was held in Toronto at Rogers Centre, and seven players were invited: pitchers Evan Crawford, Drew Hutchison and Chad Jenkins, first baseman Mike McDade, infielder Jonathan Diaz and outfielders Anthony Gose and Moises Sierra. They did do some baseball stuff, but it was mostly about life in the big leagues,nutrition, business aspects, dealing with media, etc. You can hear some interviews on Mike Wilner's blog Miked Up.

gnor - Tuesday, January 17 2012 @ 01:25 PM EST (#250707) #

I think AA was correct in his risk assessment, and given that the success rate of Japanese pitchers transitioning to the Big Leagues has not been all that stellar. Texas, who wants to go back to The World Series, is also willing to accept more risk than The Blue Jays, who are developing an untried core of young players. I mean, this is a bigger commitment than The Vernon Wells Contract, and we all know how that turned out.
IMO, I'm not a big fan of putting all your eggs in one basket anyway. The Blue Jays won in 92-93 with hitters up and down the lineup, and pitching that kept them in the game every time out. There were no standout bats or Cy Young winners in 92-93.

joeblow - Tuesday, January 17 2012 @ 01:46 PM EST (#250708) #

No standout bats? That lineup was loaded. Second in AL in runs both years. Pitching was average.

joeblow - Tuesday, January 17 2012 @ 01:48 PM EST (#250709) #

Sorry, just noticed your up and down comment. That was true. Although I would still put some the hitters as standout even though there was no standout home run hitter.

Boras Seeing Red After Madson Becomes A Red | 36 comments | Create New Account

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