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The battle for fourth begins.

Before the weekend, the Jays were hanging in the race and could reasonably have been lumped with the big three in the mix for AL East supremacy. Now they're 7.5 games out, just a half game better than Baltimore. I'm not saying this is the end, because 7.5 games in mid-June is not that much, but it is when you consider the state of the team's rotation: Morrow hasn't been great, Drabek has been awful, and Reyes and Villanueva aren't supposed to be part of it. 2012 was the plan all along, anyway.

Anyway, the boys get to take it easy for a few days now. Read: the Orioles are in town.

On paper, the Orioles have a pretty good offense. They've got aging veterans who were once very good (Derrek Lee, Brian Roberts, Vladimir Guerrero), young guys with supposedly bright futures (Adam Jones, Matt Wieters), and solid players in their primes (Mark Reynolds, J.J. Hardy, Nick Markakis). And Luke Scott (I couldn't decide to put him in category 1 or 3, since he's 33, older than I thought).

So why have they only scored 258 runs, only 18 more than the AL-trailing A's? Well, the entirety of category 1 is showing its age (OPS+ of 76, 68, 95, respectively), and Nick Markakis has forgotten how to hit. He's regressed badly from the 24-year-old who posted an .897 OPS in 2008, and has just 10 extra-base hits on the year.

The rest of the offense has been solid, especially Hardy who's having his best-ever season, but they don't have a Bautista-level hitter (who does?) to balance out some of the holes. You've gotta think things will pick up, though - the "old" guys are between 33-35, which isn't that old, and some of the other hitters are capable of more.

Tonight it's Carlos Villanueva vs. Chris Jakubauskas. Jakubauskas is filling in temporarily while Chris Tillman figures some things out, and he isn't very good. This one could be a high-scoring affair.

Wednesday night sees Ricky Romero square off against Jake Arrieta. Arrieta has good hit and walk rates, but he's walking a batter every two innings. The Jays would be prudent to make him throw a lot of pitches, both to get base-runners and to get into the bullpen, which has been, aside from Jim Johnson and Koji Uehara, terrible. Particularly, they would be prudent to get to the 9th inning down by a couple runs so as to face Kevin Gregg. He's got a 3.20 ERA, but that 1.6 WHIP has gotta give. Law of averages!

On Thursday afternoon, Baltimore's "ace" Jeremy Guthrie matches up against Jo-Jo Reyes. Guthrie has been a solid pitcher for a few years, but isn't dominant. Though Baltimore has the edge here, all of these games are winnable.

First pitch, 7:07.
Advance Scout: Baltimore Orioles, June 14-16 | 43 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
smcs - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#236732) #
Let the Zach Stewart era begin! Drabek down to AAA, Stewart up from AA per the Blue Jays official twitter page.
Matthew E - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 02:49 PM EDT (#236733) #
Blue Jays just announced on Twitter that Drabek is down and Zach Stewart is up.

I am doubly shocked. I didn't think either of those things was going to happen.

92-93 - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 02:51 PM EDT (#236734) #
The backtracking from the "keep Drabek up" crowd should be fun. I'd like to know what happened in one start that led to a pitcher who the team had never even considered to demote being sent down. I'd like to think AA stepped in and here and explained to Farrell all the reasons (mainly, one more year of control) why Drabek has to spend a month in the minor leagues. If that's the case, good on the GM.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#236735) #
Drabek was just demoted to Vegas, Jays just purchased Stewart's contract from NH.
smcs - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 02:57 PM EDT (#236736) #
Stewart last started on June 9th, so I'm assuming he would have started today or tomorrow. Drabek's next scheduled start was Saturday in Cincy. If it is a straight switch, then Stewart will be starting against the team that drafted and traded him.
TamRa - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#236737) #
Right. Stewart's normal turn would have been tomorrow but since all the regulars are getting an extra day this turn (because of the off day) he'll have to wait for Drabek's next turn.

Since kyle is down, i presume he'll stay down at least through the ASB., which gives Stewart five turns to impress.

I expect after the break that they will have to sort through Stewart, Drabek, Listch, Cecil, Reyes, and Villianueva to figure out which three will fill out the rotation coming out of the break.

 

dan gordon - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#236738) #

I think the Drabek demotion was overdue.  Good to see them make the move.  Let's see if he can improve his control issues in AAA. 

Strange that they would bring up Stewart rather than Mills, who has been fantastic in AAA.  Stewart is 24, has no mlb experience, has an ERA of 4.39 and a WHIP of 1.42 in a pretty good pitchers' park in AA.  Mills is 26, has a little mlb experience, has an ERA of 2.87 and a WHIP of 1.15 in a hitters' paradise in AAA.  Sometimes this organization does things that seem very strange to me. 

Moe - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#236739) #
Interesting that they went with Steward and not Cecil or Mills...  Wonder what we hear about that one. 



TamRa - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#236740) #
for roster construction watchers, Stewart presumably just filled the spot on the 40 that was to go to Lawrie that implies someone - Mastorianni, or Jeroloman or Richmond, I suppose, unless a major leaguer is DFAed - will have to be removed when Lawrie is ready.


Matthew E - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:09 PM EDT (#236741) #
I would like to see, eventually, assuming everyone really is ready to go, a rotation of Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek, Stewart. I think that's the quintet with the best potential for dominance. All subject to everyone living up to their potential and not getting hurt, of course, but as far as I'm concerned that's the runway the Jays should be taxiing towards.
TamRa - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#236742) #
Seems to me we can safely assume that Mills is not going to get another chance to start in Toronto. I hope we can get value out of him at some point and not just let him wither in the PCL until he leaves as a minor league free agent.


woodman663 - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#236744) #
AA was in NH..I wonder if he was so impressed by Stewart he wanted to call him up?

On the one hand I'm excited for Zach and excited to see what he can do. On the other hand I'm not sure how his unimpressive NH stats will translate. Has he got enough of a changeup to survive in the major league?

Maldoff - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#236745) #

Seeing how Drabek has had issues keeping his cool during games, I wonder how he will react to this. He could very well go into a funk having been sent down.

I think the reason for seeing Stewart, not Mills or Cecil, is that the Jays already have 2 left-handed starters in the rotation (Romero, Reyes). Three lefties would be an overload, and allow right-handed hitters (who are more prevalent) an easier time 60% of the time through the rotation. Just my two cents.

Shane - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:14 PM EDT (#236746) #

Mastorianni, or Jeroloman or Richmond, I suppose, unless a major leaguer is DFAed - will have to be removed when Lawrie is ready.

Jo-Jo Reyes hopefully (assuming Stewart or somene can actually stick, Cecil comes back and Villanueva can go back to the pen).

Moe - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#236747) #
Jo-Jo Reyes hopefully

I hope not.  There are far worse players than him on the roster.  I don't think he will ever become a great option for the AL East but I do think he has a future in an major league rotation.  And that's too valuable to simply DFA. 


uglyone - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:21 PM EDT (#236748) #
I would like to see, eventually, assuming everyone really is ready to go, a rotation of Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek, Stewart. I think that's the quintet with the best potential for dominance.

Agreed. Ideally these are the five SP we finish this season with. (of course, Drabek, Cecil, and Stewart will have to earn it because Litsch/Reyes/Villy have pitched pretty well this year.)

I wouldn't mind seeing those 5 being the starting 5 next season....but with all of McGuire, Alvarez, Jenkins, Carreno barking at their heels, all with at least half a season of AA under their belts already to start next year.
Kelekin - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:22 PM EDT (#236749) #
The Stewart move is shocking, and maybe they're hoping it'll give him some confidence and blow people away in the majors.

But really, I'm quite disappointed with the amount of moves being made.  AA seems to want to burn player options for sport, and he already burned Mills' option, so why would you not bring him up to get another shot?  As much as Villanueva has been solid in the bullpen, he has no business being in a starting rotation (let alone Reyes).

As much as everyone says Mills has fringe-MLB stuff, and there's no denying that it might be true, he has been a top tier pitcher in the PCL for 3 seasons.

Shane - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#236750) #

"I don't think he will ever become a great option for the AL East but I do think he has a future in an major league rotation."

Ick! If he does, it's in a rotation in Kansas City or Houston. If it's in Toronto, things have gone horribly horribly wrong.

krose - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#236751) #
Not sure why there is no love for Mills. He is not a hard thrower but has demonstrated success with the pitches he has. Could he be a latter day Jimmy Key? Could be a wonderful compliment to a rotation full of power pitchers!
Alex Obal - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:35 PM EDT (#236752) #
Wow. I need some time to digest this... My gut reaction is that I would have given Mills the call, as I would've after the Cleveland disaster. But that's just a gut reaction.

I think Villanueva could easily be a nasty short reliever in the Takashi Saito mold. I'm agnostic about his starting ability.
Mike Green - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#236753) #
My own view of the situation was as follows.  I didn't think that Drabek was likely ready at the start of the season, but I saw that as a judgment call.  Once the club went north with Drabek, my preference was that the club allow him to develop at the major league level, barring major jolts to confidence.  He's been pretty bad, but I would probably have stuck with him until mid-July despite his struggles.  I will say that he looked quite frustrated on the mound on Sunday, and that may have led to his demotion, more than the shellacking he took.

The service time issue is completely different for me, with pitchers (and especially ones who have been through TJ) as compared with position players.  I am not at all worried about where Drabek is at age 29.  The key point is to get the best possible 5 years early in his career.  Personally, I am a big believer in the Weaver method of development; 1/2 a season in low leverage long relief and then start the season the next year in the rotation.  That method would have led to an extra year of service time as an added benefit.

I am excited to see what Zach Stewart can do, and will be grateful if he throws more strikes than Drabek did.

TamRa - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:40 PM EDT (#236754) #
Jo-Jo Reyes hopefully

Not a chance - unless he's traded. They didn't stick with him this long to kick him to the curb when he's not stinking it up.Certainly they won't lose him so they can keep someone like Richmond.

that said, when the do think that Cecil/Drabek is ready to return, they may very well trade him to make room (which is to say shop him around in late July, and if they don't make a deal run him through waivers in August and make a deal with whoever claims him)

i could definitely see a team like KC and a few others being interested in him.

TamRa - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:45 PM EDT (#236755) #
If we are talking Ideal - this is my ideal rotation from September going forward:

Romero
McGowan
Morrow
Drabek
Stewart << Until Alvarez arrives.

With Alvarez, that's a rotation with - potentially - no starter worse than a #2 quality guy.

Of course, the thing about an "ideal" is it hardly ever happens.

greenfrog - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:48 PM EDT (#236756) #
This move might also be a way to light a fire under Stewart, who has been languishing in the minors for quite a while. Plus, the Jays may be auditioning players in anticipation of some trade activity next month.

Two of Stewart's last three starts have been very good, although he hasn't been doing all that well otherwise. I seem to remember him heating up around this time last year, so maybe the Jays can catch lightning in a bottle.
Moe - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:50 PM EDT (#236757) #
I don't get the massive love for Mills and the hate for Reyes.  Neither are ace pitchers but Reyes can give you around 150-180 innings at average pitching. That is not great but it has value.  Maybe not for the Jays this year if you think they should be trying out more "pitchers of the future".  I'm not sure I agree but that's a reasonable stand. But either way, it does not mean the Jays should DFA him. 

Should the Jays give Mills another shot?  Yes, I think they should and this would be the perfect opportunity.  But I don't expect him to do any better than Reyes and most likely worse.  The fact that no team was willing to give the Jays something that made them willing to trade him, shows that he is not highly regarded elsewhere either. It's not like the asking price for a player who the Jays have this low on the depth chart is very high.




Matthew E - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#236758) #
If we are talking Ideal - this is my ideal rotation from September going forward:

Romero
McGowan
Morrow
Drabek
Stewart << Until Alvarez arrives.


Ooh, right: I forgot McGowan. Hmm. Okay, then I don't know.
Anders - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#236759) #
If only some Blue Jays related web site had predicted this... Wait! Nailed it!

In a related note, you should check out/follow our twitter. I/we've been right about like 2 of 83942 things so far. Two!
uglyone - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#236760) #
semi-interesting tweet from Dave Gershman: "Zach Stewart told me last week that he thought he'd be called up real soon. Guess he was right".

there was plenty of speculation that Stewart was very frustrated/annoyed to be stuck back in AA this year and that it was effecting his performance, and that speculation was never really outright denied by anyone - and now it seems like Stewart was told last week that he might be getting a callup soon...and of course his last start was by far his best of the year, and fairly dominant. Before I dismissed that speculation as just excuse-making for Stewart's poor performance this year, but now I'm thinking there might be something to it. If being stuck in AA was effecting his performance, and if the Jays telling him last week that he was close played a part in his good showing last time out, maybe the Jays think this is exactly why he wasn't pitching up to par.

All that speculation being said, I think it's a fact that being in Vegas is really impacting our pitching development. If our AAA team played anywhere else, Drabek and Stewart would have been up in AAA halfway through last year, and both likely would have started in AAA again this year. It's annoying that the fear of vegas is killing our ability to bring these young pitchers along a normal progression.
Shane - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 03:55 PM EDT (#236761) #

Snider, Cecil, Lawrie & Drabek all in Triple-A should be 4 permanent Blue Jays at some point. Morrow, Romero, Rzepczynski, Arencebia, Escobar, Lind, Bautista in Toronto make 7. That's 11 guys who should be all here permanently on the 25 man roster in '12. Mix in the a Janssen, Villanueva etc, and get rid of the junk, and things will start looking a little better. And Jo-Jo Reyes 'Your DFA Is Calling' of course.

jester00 - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 04:06 PM EDT (#236763) #

Am I the only one that doesn't get all this Reyes hate?  I'm no huge supporter of Reyes but looking at his starts this season he's been pretty decent since the beginning of May.

 

Since that time he has had 8 starts, only 1 of which could be called a horrible start.  That was May 25th vs. the Yankees.  4 of those 8 have been quality starts, and the other 3 were average at worst.  He's also gone at least 6 innings in 6 of those 8 starts.

We could do way worse than Reyes for our number 5.  Way worse. 

Jonny German - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#236766) #
Drabek was on pace for 119 walks over a 32-start season.

Brett Cecil had a 3.76 ERA through his first 24 starts of 2010 (111 ERA+), and particularly notable is that he handled the big 3 of the east beautifully. Starts #25 and #26 trashed his numbers before he bounced back with 2 reasonably good starts to end the season. Zach Stewart has a lot to show me before I'll believe his future is brighter than Cecil's in the rotation.

Jo-Jo Reyes now sports a reasonable 4.30 ERA, but a less pretty 5.40 RA. He's given up 9 unearned runs in 13 starts. The rest of the starters have also given up 9 unearned runs... in 53 starts.
krose - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 04:28 PM EDT (#236767) #
http://thestar.blogs.com/baseball/

Richard Griffin on the demotion and promotion. For those of us who enjoy an another perspective.

92-93 - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 05:51 PM EDT (#236777) #
Blue Jays have won 14 straight home games vs Orioles. That's the longest current home win streak for any MLB team vs one opponent. - Elias
scottt - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 09:26 PM EDT (#236784) #
I suppose it's a reaction to the complete ineffectiveness of the Jays pitching against Boston.
Incidentally, Shield is shutting the Red Sox out tonight.

Gerry - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 09:53 PM EDT (#236785) #
Zep's WHIP by month, before tonight:

April 0.71
May 1.45
June 1.93
cybercavalier - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:10 PM EDT (#236787) #
A bit off topic from above:

As Rajai Davis is not getting on base enough, would it make sense as Rivera be the late inning replacement for Davis in LF with a switch of Patterson to CF ?
scottt - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:12 PM EDT (#236788) #
Davis provides much better defense in center than Patterson does.
And I'm sure Patterson is superior to Rivera in left field.



cybercavalier - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:16 PM EDT (#236789) #
Re: uglyone,

It seems the 51s will get a new stadium. If it is indoor and closely monitored, the pitching environment there may be good enough for the normal progression of young pitching. But the Jays will probably be affiliated with another AAA team by then.
cybercavalier - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:20 PM EDT (#236790) #
I agree with you, scottt; but Rivera seems to provide better offense than Davis. In late-inning pinch-hitting, Rivera might be a nice chipping-in.
scottt - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:34 PM EDT (#236791) #
Not really. Davis has better career numbers than what he's shown in 2011.
Bid - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:55 PM EDT (#236792) #

So why not Janssen rather than Zep to face the two righty bangers?

Whatever... thank you, Adam LInd.

scottt - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 10:58 PM EDT (#236793) #
Blue Jays have won 15 straight home games vs Orioles. Barely.
ayjackson - Tuesday, June 14 2011 @ 11:45 PM EDT (#236794) #

Great quote:

"That's the thing about this. Everybody wants a quick answer. They want to say I'm doing this for one reason. But I lost two years to my injury in 2003 and the Rule 5 thing in 2004. And then I bounced back and forth, and my at-bats in the majors were still developmental for me. And the swing is totally different. These are all things that should be looked at. A lot of things can add up to someone being a late bloomer.

"It's not always luck."

from a great article on Jose Bautista by Jeff Passan.

Advance Scout: Baltimore Orioles, June 14-16 | 43 comments | Create New Account
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