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Well, it's not official yet, but it seems pretty close - the Blue Jays are going to sign Jose Bautista to a 5 year deal worth $65 million, with a team option for 2016 worth $13 million. There's a press conference at 5 PM.


(Photo courtesty #2JB)


Reaction on the Jays blogosphere seems to be somewhat mixed, between negative and indifferent. I'm puzzled by this, for a variety of reasons relating to both Bautista and the club. The view from the establishment seems slightly more positive, with the caveat that the Jays should have waited til the end of the season to lock Bautista up.

To me, their are two ways to assess this - whether Bautista is going to be "worth" the deal, in the abstract, and whether the deal, right now, makes sense for Toronto Blue Jays.

Looking at the later point first, I have to think that the answer is an unqualified yes. Let's start from a salary perspective. The Jays can definitely afford Bautista. The team was willing (well, contractually obligated) to pay Vernon Wells $86 million over the next four years, and instead will pay him $5m. Clearly this wasn't an either/or decision, but there's money in the budget. Which brings up a second point - is this going to negatively impact what the Jays can do going forward. I mean, what's the point of having all that Wells money if they are just going to blow it on Joey Bats? Well, I suppose this gets a little more tricky, but I would have to think that there won't be a huge change in the Jays' M.O. for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, it's not like the Jays have a huge payroll to begin with. The Jays opening day payroll for 2011 isn't available yet for a variety of reasons, but with Bautista it figures to be in about the $70 million dollar range, including Vernon's going away present and Adeiny's contract (a total of about $8m, which count for accounting but not practical purposes.) Going forward, the Jays have a rather remarkable amount of payroll flexibility. Not counting Adeiny, the team has four players under contract for next year. Four. Obviously a bunch of guys are arbitration eligible, but Bautista, Romero, Lind and Rajai Davis are the only players with guaranteed contracts for next year. Aaron Hill, Jason Frasor, Octavio Dotel, and Edwin Encarnacion all have team options, and Frank Francisco, Shawn Camp and John McDonald are the only guys that are out and out free agents. So, it's not like there are a ton of guys to lock up. I imagine that, based on their performance this season, the team will try to sign several arbitration eligible players to long term deals like they did with Romero. Yunel Escobar and Brandon Morrow have two arbitration years after this one, and Travis Snider and Brett Cecil both will have three, I believe, and everyone else won't be eligible for a while and won't be worth big money. So, I can't really see this move preventing the Jays from locking up their own guys, who probably won't start getting expensive until 2014 and 2015 anyway. (All salary data from Cot's)

Secondly, I don't think this will affect the Jays free agent strategy. The last big money free agent signee the Jays inked was... AJ Burnett and BJ Ryan. The franchise, for better or worse, just doesn't ink big money guys. I tend to think it's for better - the market effiency, if you will, is definitely in signing your own guys. As for next offseason, when Prince Fielder and Albert Pujols are free agents, at least theoretically? Well, I don't really think that this inhibits the Jays here. If they are going to dole out $240 million for Pujols, or $180 million for Fielder, these are decisions for which approval will come above AA's head. I don't think the $13 million average annual value of the Batista contract will have a large impact on that. The complaint that the Jays are in the wrong place in the "success cycle"? Well I think a comparable player is only going to be more expensive, and at this point you have to think the Jays are aiming for 2012-2014, the years Bautista's extension, if you will, kicks in.

Thirdly, Bautista does not look likely to "block" any of the Jays prospects, for two reasons. The first  is that Bautista plays 2 positions, 3B and OF, and can presumably learn to play a passable 1B, or if necessary DH. The second is that the Jays best prospects are almost all catchers and pitchers, positions that Bautista does not play. The Jays only have one corner infield prospect to speak of, Brett Lawrie. The outfield situation is a bit better, with three guys that could be considered prospects (there is a chance Lawrie ends up in the OF as well.) Anthony Gose is the most highly regarded, and he is a couple years out and going to play CF. Eric Thames and Moises Sierra are the other two prospects, though neither makes the Jays top 10 list this year. Sierra should start the year in AA and Thames in AAA, so Bautista's presumed return to RF in 2012 probably affects both Thames and Sierra. Neither projects as stars, but both could be decent players. I tend to take the view that it will work out in the long run, and Bautista's positional flexibility probably means something can be worked out. Let's put it this way - it's a good problem to have.

Aside from fit, the Bautista deal is worth considering on the merits of Bautista himself - is he going to suck, be average, or be, well, Bautistian. This question is decidedly undecided, and I don't think anyone can answer it with much certainty. Bautista is 30, the age at which players begin to decline, and his one year spike is unusual in any context, but especially this one. It is extremely unlikely that he will hit as well in 2011 as he did in 2010, but I don't see any reason why the underlying performance in 2010 should be considered a gigantic fluke. Bautista's average on balls in play was .233, nearly 40 points below his career average. It was, in fact, third worst in the majors amongst qualifying players. I think its obvious that Bautista altered his swing to some degree, and in many ways became an all or nothing swing-for-the-fences guy, so he probably isn't going to hit .300 any time soon, but his BABIP should go up. His FB% did also go way up - from 42% to 55% - and his LD% continued to hover around 15%, not an especially great number, so the jump in BABIP probably won't be huge, but it will happen. He will hit fewer home runs - his HR/FB % was 21%, which is high - 11% is, I believe, around average. With this being said, his dingers traveled an average distance of 402 feet last year (8 ft more than the average homer.) It's 328 to left in Skydome, and he's a dead pull hitter. So, I don't think he's completely screwed. I don't know that the league is going to figure him out especially either. He destroyed fastballs, but got a lot fewer of them to hit than in the past. Team's started throwing him sliders and curveballs, both of which he did just fine against. In fact, he was in the top 10 in the bigs against all three of those pitches. He was just about average against the change and the cutter, and didn't especially struggle against anything. He's proven himself more than willing to lay off pitches and take walks, and will almost certainly lead the team in on base percentage this year again, so even if he isn't hitting a ton he will add value at the plate. Basically, I don't think there's any immediate reason to expect Bautista to suck completely.

So if his 2010 wasn't a fluke, what to expect in 2011? I'm not a betting man (ok, I am), but if I had to guess I would pencil in Bautista for 35 home runs, and a .260/.360/.500 line. I don't know what his defense at third will be like, but slightly below average would be my guess. That player is definitely worth $9 million (which is about what the Jays would have given him either way.) From 2012-2015 he will be making 56 million, say. Will he be worth that? I don't know. I think that there's a decent chance he isn't an above average major league player in 2015, in which case he won't be worth the money then. In 2012, 2013? I'm optimistic. His offensive value is as much tied up in his batting eye as his power. He is a competent defender. He isn't reliant on his speed. As Dave Cameron pointed out, guys like Bautista (Adam Dunn, Paul Konerko, Victor Martinez, none of whom are remotely comparable to Bautista as players) got about the same money as Bautista, despite being older, significantly worse defensively, and with no seasons comparable to Bautista (especially in the last 3 years.) If they want to sign someone like him the future, it's going to cost them just as much.

Lastly, there has been some scuttlebutt about waiting for Bautista to play out 2011 before deciding whether to re-sign him. I can't say that I understand this. If Bautista plays really well, the Jays can't afford him or can't re-sign him. If he plays pretty well, the Jays are probably paying out the same amount of money, maybe a bit more, depending on how salaries go. If he plays poorly, the team cuts him loose or pays him a little. For the reasons discussed above, I think the last option is the least likely. If the Jays are going to want to re-sign him after this year, I just don't think there is any way he gets less money, or fewer years.

Ultimately I think this deal comes down to whether you think Bautista's going to be average to good, bad, or great. If he's bad, the Jays are screwed (on the deal, not overall.) If he's average to good, the team has locked up an asset going forward. If he's good to great, the team has captured a lot of surplus value they would not otherwise be able to afford. I think the later two possibilities are more likely, and I think this deal is going to be a winner going forward.
Bautista a Jay Through 2015 | 60 comments | Create New Account
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John Northey - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:22 PM EST (#230464) #
I suspect the Jays went with 'best case' 'worst case' and figured $65 mil for 5 was in the middle.

If Bautista was not signed and...
Back to how he was, a backup 3B/RF/LF who hits in the high 90's OPS+ range about 1-2 WAR. Could've been resigned post-season fairly cheaply unless someone opened up the vault hoping 2010 was the real thing, odds are $18 for 3 would've been enough.

Repeats 2010 and plays well at third base. If allowed to reach free agency then his cost would be in Werth+ territory - $126 mil over 7 which is $61 million/2 years more than they'll pay Joey Bats.

Given it seems $5 mil per Win Above Replacement is the current standard it won't be hard for Bautista to be worth his deal even at his old level. If he has a 5 WAR year during those 5 years (last year was a 7) then the other 4 just need to average 2 WAR (about his old level) to make it a good deal. So the Jays are paying for 1 more really good year and 4 backup level ones. If they get 2 really good years then AA looks smart, 3 or more like a genius.

I felt a 3 year deal was as far as it should go, but this just might work out for the best. Guess we'll see.
Dave Rutt - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:29 PM EST (#230468) #
This move is in line with AA's stated desire to acquire high-upside players. It's a gamble, yes, but Bautista is pretty much the definition of high-risk, high-reward. He's had one good season - but it was an MVP-calibre season. AA knows this is the type of player the Jays need to compete in the East.
Matthew E - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:30 PM EST (#230469) #
It's not such a bad signing. I can see how it might work out or not work out. But I wouldn't have done it, because I think Bautista's too old to be part of the next great Jays team. So why not either trade him for some good young outfielder somewhere or take him to arbitration, let him leave as a free agent next year, and take the draft pick? But whatever.
Dr. Zarco - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:35 PM EST (#230471) #
I am amazed at how many people dislike this signing.  I was turned into a believer after a month or two of '10, confirming his Sept '09 ability.  He does not appear to have a hole in his swing (except that he swings too hard, if that's even possible).  Lind (vs lefties and hard fastballs) and Hill (chasing breaking stuff) have significant holes and '10's regression was not completely unexpected. 

Personally, I'm thrilled.  13M is not all that risky.  He could, and I think he will, be one of the best players in the league for the next few years.  Seems to have all the intangibles as well.  A happy day in Jay land, well done AA!

Mylegacy - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:38 PM EST (#230472) #
Joey Bats has balls - and a fire in his belly that is infectious. Not to mention I've always admired guys that can grow three inches of beard between the time a game starts and finishes! For Wells money we get: Bautista, a Closer and 10 million cash a year. I'm a happy puppy. I think he's almost the PERFECT leader for a team of young achievers with dreams of winning.

Like John - above - I think the contract has drawn a middle line - so as I've said in earlier threads - most likely either Jose or the Jays could have made a better deal. Me - personally - I'm happy to live with this one. As AA says - when you sign a guy long term you're signing the man - and Jose is Da Man!

Forkball - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:38 PM EST (#230473) #
Nice summation.  Good to see an author tackling this instead of just a few sentences.

MLBTR has the contract at 5 years for $60 million, although maybe that's a typo, or the difference is in a 6th year buyout.

I think I'd like to see the result of this contract be Bautista sticking at 3B, and moving Lawrie to RF now.  Vice versa is also a possibility, but I'm skeptical about how well Lawrie would do at 3b - just move him to RF and let him hit; you know what you have with Bautista at 3b.  I don't think I'd like Bautista at 3b, and then moving him back to the OF if and when Lawrie is ready at 3b.

#2JBrumfield - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:46 PM EST (#230474) #

I think the Jays should put this song on JaysVision and change Tequila to Bautista!

Anyways, The National Post has reaction from Aaron Hill and Ricky Romero.  This is what Hill had to say...

"Last year was a historic season and the way the fans reacted to him was amazing. It's really neat for us to see something get done."

 

ZekeBella - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:47 PM EST (#230475) #

This move is in line with AA's stated desire to acquire high-upside players

I don't get this. How can he have any higher an upside than he already showed last year. I think that it is very un-AA-like, if I can add that phrase to the discussion. The move that represents AA's philosophy to me was A-Gon for Escobar. Buy low, sell high. The only way this signing can be consistent with that philosphy is if Bautista hits 40/100 for the next 5 years in which case it was a bargain buy-low deal. I doubt if anybody is expecting anything close to that  and if he does than AA should go directly to the Hall of Fame.

 

bmac - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:50 PM EST (#230476) #

Unlike the supposedly untradeable Wells' contract, this contract does not keep the Jays from trading him down the road (barring no-trade stipulations in his agreement). If they Jays don't compete this year or next, assuming he drops back to 25-30 HRs and plays decent right field, some contender would still pay a steep price for him in  a leveraged trade deadline scenario. This contract would not inhibit the market place for his bat.

#2JBrumfield - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:52 PM EST (#230477) #
That story I mentioned in the previous post was from the <strong>Canadian Press,</strong> not <strong>The National&nbsp;Post,</strong> and it would help <a href="http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2011/02/17/jays_bautista/">if I linked it</a>!
DJR - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:52 PM EST (#230478) #
Probably a good time to put him on the banner. What kind of facial growth: Batting practice, afternoon game or night game?
Alex Obal - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:54 PM EST (#230479) #
I hear it's going to be night game.
#2JBrumfield - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 02:55 PM EST (#230480) #

Let's try this again!  The story I referred to earlier is from The Canadian Press, not The National Post, and here is the gosh darn link!

Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:01 PM EST (#230481) #
Good call DJR. You're reading our (collective) minds -- the new banner  has been ready for a day or two and just needs to get posted.
DJR - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:07 PM EST (#230482) #
Great! OK, trying this again: Romero with his cap screwed down tight on his head...
Dave Rutt - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:07 PM EST (#230483) #
I don't get this. How can he have any higher an upside than he already showed last year

That's the upside I was referring to. We don't know he's always going to be a 7 WAR player, but we know based on actual results that he's capable of it, something that can't be said about anyone else currently on the Jays (or Vernon, for that matter).
RhyZa - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:18 PM EST (#230485) #

If I were to quibble, the money I can live with but not at 5 years.  I feel either 4 at this money or 5 at a tad less would have been a reasonable middle ground.

There was risk both ways, he could replicate the season and get Jayson Werth money, or bust and not get close to what he is offered now.

That said, if he can sustain his production somewhat, I like his makeup, character and lack of mileage to bode well even at 5 years.

TamRa - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:18 PM EST (#230486) #
Lott reports this interesting quote from Anthopoulos:

Asked about contract flexibility without specific reference to Bautista’s case, Anthopoulos gave an intriguing reply: any contract should be movable in baseball’s marketplace.

“If you feel like you sign a player and that from that point forward no other team in the league would take that player [in a trade] because of the contract that he’s under, then you should probably look at yourself and say maybe it wasn’t the right deal,” he said.


I still say there's a non-zero chance that the contract is a precourser to a trade, but they do sing his praises an awful lot to do that now.

In any case, with the nature of salary inflation, $13 mil isn't a ton now and it's even less five years out (in relative terms). It is a year or two longer than I'd have considered ideal but I'm not busted up about it. We still have plenty of money for Pujols. ;)

By the way, on BP Christina Karhl writes about some newfangled defensive metric that really like Joey Bats at 3B....but not something I'd heard of before. if there's a subscriber here maybe they could provide a bit more info on the metric and what it thinks of JB as a 3B vs as a RF.


I really don't care which he plays but I'd like it more if he was just locked in somewhere, rather than flopping back and forth - it messes up my pontifications!

Thomas - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:20 PM EST (#230487) #
The move that represents AA's philosophy to me was A-Gon for Escobar. Buy low, sell high.

AA's philosophy, as far as we can tell and as far as we can summarize (inadequately) in a sentence, is to build a team that is a perennial contender in the AL East. "Buy low, sell high" isn't a complete philosophy. It's an element of a philosophy. If it was the entire philosophy,the team would scarcely have any high-value players because as soon as they become high-value, that tenet would dictate that they be cashed in for their "value."

It makes sense to sell high on assets that likely won't maintain their high value in the near future or in the medium-term future, when the team aims to contend. Cashing in on A-Gon made sense. However, if AA believes Bautista is likely to produce at a reasonable offensive level for the duration of his contract, then the situation is not analogous to Gonzalez, at all.

Bautista may be a star level player if he can repeat something close to 2010. If he can't, but he can settle down into 30-homer territory while maintaining his plate discipline, he's a very solid contributor on any contender. If AA believes that is Bautista's likely future and that team can compete in 2012/2013, there is no reason to trade him unless there is an offer presented that is clearly superior to keeping Bautista.

Mick Doherty - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:24 PM EST (#230488) #
DJR, I think you're going to like the new banner ...
#2JBrumfield - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:37 PM EST (#230489) #

I think you're going to like the new banner.

It'll be a banner moment for Batter's Box, get it?  Oh boy!  Comedy gold, if not platinum!!

Anyways, Beyond the Box Score outlines the worst case scenario on Bautista's new deal.

Mike Green - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 03:58 PM EST (#230494) #
Actually, it's more extreme than that.  The best-case scenario for Bautista is that he puts in the best age 30-34 seasons by a player ever, as a combination of Dazzy Vance and Cheo Cruz (although I concede that he is unlikely to do as well as Lou Gehrig did...).  The worst-case scenario would be represented by Ben Johnson or Austin McHenry. 
Gerry - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 04:08 PM EST (#230495) #

I think intangibles played a role in the signing, not the major role but a minor one.  Bautista is always willing to talk to the media about anything and I was told he is very good at talking to, and signing things, for the fans.  He has also become a clubhouse leader, an affable guy off the field but very committed on the field.  I think we all know how he barks at umpires from time to time.  Finally he was a link between the Latino and North American players last season.  His English is excellent and he was rumoured to have helped EE and Yunel Escobar.

All of that might amount to $50 and a cup of coffee but I think it is worth more than that, even if Bautista fails to live up to expectations with this deal.

Hodgie - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 04:09 PM EST (#230496) #
I don't understand the Aurilia comparison. Different players with Aurilia deriving more value from his defense. Even then, Aurilia compiled 12 WAR over the 5 seasons after his "fluke" season.
John Northey - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 04:29 PM EST (#230502) #
An interesting one, comparing Bautista to Rich Aurilia. A couple of big differences exist though.

Aurilia pre-age 29: 2125 PA-270/327/419 95 OPS+
Bautista pre-age 29: 2038 PA-238/329/400 91 OPS+

Looks like the same playing time right? Not exactly. Bautista played a peak of 142 games, then 128, then two in the 110's. Aurilia had 152, 141, 122 game seasons. Bautista really has had just this past year as a regular while Aurilia was given full-time play in the two seasons before his breakout (over 500 PA both years vs Bautista getting there once, back in 2007). That is a big factor.

The following 5 years Aurilia hit 272/325/428 for a 96 OPS+ in what looks like old Bautista playing time (114-133 games per year). If Bautista does that it would be a disappointment but not a disaster as he'd basically be back to who he was pre-2010, a guy worth about $5 million a year (Fangraphs had his 2009 at $8 mil, 2008 at $2, 2007 at $5) thus the Jays lose roughly $8 mil a year.

The upside is last year - Fangraphs has it worth $27.8 million. So the Jays are hoping for 1/2 of that every year for 5 years. Assuming their estimates are reasonable of course.

To me the downside risk is $8 mil, upside risk about the same if he repeats. Good ol' down the middle deal at a level the Jays have been able to write off before (BJ Ryan for example)
Forkball - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 04:44 PM EST (#230503) #
AA's philosophy, as far as we can tell and as far as we can summarize (inadequately) in a sentence, is to build a team that is a perennial contender in the AL East. "Buy low, sell high" isn't a complete philosophy. It's an element of a philosophy. If it was the entire philosophy,the team would scarcely have any high-value players because as soon as they become high-value, that tenet would dictate that they be cashed in for their "value."

Yes.  This.

The goal is to win the World Series, not put the best ratio of salary / wins on the field.
Mike D - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 05:08 PM EST (#230504) #

Contract structure per AA:

2011: $8M; 2012-15: $14M; 2016: $14M club option, $1M buyout

subculture - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 05:16 PM EST (#230505) #

Continuing from the previous thread...

Werth had been a 5 WAR player for 4 straight seasons heading into this offseason. Even if Bautista were to post similar slash stats to 2010 it's unlikely he even sniffs Werth's deal in what's shaping up to be a FA market filled with top-end talent. Adrian Beltre is the same age as Bautista will be next offseason, has a much better career track record, and is coming off a more valuable season according to WAR and even he didn't land himself Jayson Werth's contract.

While that may be logical, I don't believe the market works like that.  How much does the market value 4 years of 5 WAR, versus 2 consecutive years of say 6 WAR?  Once the market believes you've established your value (ability), you're paid more on your potential.   I think 2 consecutive great years, or 2 consecutive bad years tends to be valued only slightly less than 3 (which is even slightly less than 4, and so on...).

I think Adrian Beltre proves my point - he hasn't even had 2 consecutive great years, underwhelmed most of his career, and still got a huge contract.  If Beltre's numbers weren't so skewed towards contract years he would have been paid more than Werth. 

Beltre is an interesting comp for JB however, bc it's always so hard to predict how his next year will be.  I'd be interested to know how many GMs today would take Beltre over Bautista straight-up at the same salary.

Dave Till - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 06:15 PM EST (#230506) #
A couple of additional factors that make this a good signing:

- He likes playing here.
- His teammates wanted him to come back.

The former is especially important - too many players think of Toronto as if it was Siberia. That's why the Jays find it tricky to acquire players in trade - the new arrival might hate it here.

As for whether the Jays will earn their money - who can say? No one has ever had career stats like Bautista's before. But 54 home runs is a LOT of home runs: there have been only 25 players to hit that many or more in all of baseball history. (Of these 25, four were Babe Ruth, and at least nine were by players widely accused of being on steroids or other PEDs.) Given his positive influence on the clubhouse and his work ethic, I think it's an acceptable risk.

Craig B - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 06:37 PM EST (#230507) #
I don't think the deal is a great deal, but I'm excited as heck that the Jays have unbelted and ponied up the dough. This signals a significant shift in Rogers' focus and it has to be considered a very promising sign for the team going forward. They are actually trying. It is hugely significant.
Craig B - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 06:39 PM EST (#230508) #
And my feelings are in line with a lot of people here - it's not the ideal guy to sign, but there is positive risk, the guy wanted to come play here, and it is even a bit less than the usual Toronto Premium. It's big progress.
dae88 - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 06:58 PM EST (#230509) #
in terms of market context...

Jason Werth (32, May 26) 7 yrs/$126 million ($18 million per)
Adrian Beltre (32, April 7) 6 yrs/$96 million ($16 million per)
Jose Bautista (31, October 19) 5 yrs/$65 million ($13 million per)

Same risks apply to all three. Yet, Bautista is the youngest, with the fewest committed years, at the lowest dollar value per year. Risk is risk, but Toronto seems to have put the least on the table in the current market. To me, this is a smart thing.

I still think that Toronto should have made more of a push for Beltre. If the current roster is $70 million with this new contract, adding Beltre would have pushed that to around $86-$88 million, maybe $88-$90 million. But kind of sweet, Beltre at 3B, Jose in RF, and still at a reasonable level and well within the financial range of Rogers.

earlweaverfan - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 07:00 PM EST (#230510) #
I don't get this. How can he have any higher an upside than he already showed last year.

Well, there are two broad streams of inference possible here.  In the first, you are right - we'll call this the huge outlier year, or in everyday language, the fluke year.  Everyone's career has variations that include highs one year and lows the next, even as their long-term trends get better up to a certain age, and then start declining on average, thereafter.  Under this explanation, Joey Bats just had the fluke year of all fluke years, the outlier of all outliers.  So, yes, there is no reason to believe that he will not decline right back to what he formerly produced, or at least, a long way down from 2010.

But suppose you prefer scenario B, equally plausible.  Under this explanation, he got great coaching to adjust his swing, and he became a new and different player.  If you are open to this explanation, a few factors will make you even more hopeful.  First, 2010 was his first year of playing a full season, so he could get better before he gets worse, once he gets a few more hundred ABs under his belt, as a full time player.  Second, he started off 2010 hitting leadoff, not his natural position, so there is every reason to believe that he will respond better to the chance to bat 3rd in the order for a full year.  Third, his hitting got a lot stronger as the year unfolded, even after pitchers learned to respect him more.  Fourth, his BABIP was quite a bit lower than his historical numbers.

If you like scenario B, which I do, I see no reason why he couldn't hit 60 HRs, drive in 140 RBIs, collect 110 walks, etc.  For example, in the second half of 2010, he hit fully 33 of his 54 HR.  If he had a full year in 2011 like his second half of2010, he could hit 66 HR.  I am not saying he is going to, of course; some sort of regression is likely from that pace.  But it is not absurd to say that he could repeat all of last year with a stronger start, but a weaker finish.
The_Game - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 07:05 PM EST (#230511) #
This signals a significant shift in Rogers' focus and it has to be considered a very promising sign for the team going forward. They are actually trying. It is hugely significant.

And this is what I like the most about this deal (apart from the fact that it's a reasonable contract with the potential for a huge reward). If the Jays have any hope of becoming a consistent contender, Rogers needs to be committed to spending money like this when necessary.
Ron - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 07:12 PM EST (#230512) #
The former is especially important - too many players think of Toronto as if it was Siberia. That's why the Jays find it tricky to acquire players in trade - the new arrival might hate it here.

Dave, name me one baseball player that thought of Toronto as if it were Siberia. We have seen players complain about the turf (Glaus and Rolen) but I don’t recall a single player that has ripped Toronto the city. When the money has been right, the Jays haven’t had any issue bringing in players through trade, free agency, or signing their own “star” players to long term contracts (Burnett, Glaus, Rolen, Ryan, Halladay, Rios, Bautista, Wells, Overbay, etc…) to play in Toronto. It should also be noted both Rolen and Glaus waived their no trade clauses to join the Jays.

As for the Bautista contract, I hate it. More often than not, teams that give out big money/long term deals to players in their 30’s, come out on the losing end. The risk is even bigger when the player in question only has one productive season on their resume. The better option in my opinion was to see if 2010 wasn’t a fluke and retain Bautista on a 1 year contract. If Bautista had another productive season, the Jays would have had a 15 day exclusive negotiating window to work out a long term contract. Even if the 15 day window expired, the Jays would still be able to bid on his services along with the rest of baseball. Remember Paul Beeston has said the money is there for the right players and the right time. The Jays have the financial muscle to match any financial offer that Bautista would have received from other clubs. I know I’m sticking my neck out by criticizing Baseball Jesus, but this is by far the worst move he has made since he took over as GM and it actually reminds me of a move his former boss would have made.

 
jerjapan - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 07:36 PM EST (#230513) #
So Richard Griffin, of all people, called this contract with his comp of Dan Uggla's deal (5 years, 62 mil) to the sort of deal Bautista would be looking for. 
CaramonLS - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 07:37 PM EST (#230514) #
I was hoping for 3 / 40.
Smithers - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 08:12 PM EST (#230515) #
The former is especially important - too many players think of Toronto as if it was Siberia. That's why the Jays find it tricky to acquire players in trade - the new arrival might hate it here.

Dave, name me one baseball player that thought of Toronto as if it were Siberia. We have seen players complain about the turf (Glaus and Rolen) but I don’t recall a single player that has ripped Toronto the city.


It may not have been from a guy that played for the Jays, but Chipper Jones sure didn't seem to think that much of Toronto when he stopped by for the WBC a couple years ago.  To wit:

"I don't know if you ever stayed in Toronto, but it's not exactly Las Vegas. To say that we were plucking our eyebrows out one at a time would be an understatement."

His comments were probably more so related to downtime-induced boredom during a poorly scheduled tournament, but undoubtedly many players from the southern US or Latin America would paint all of Canada with the same "igloos, polar bears and hockey players" brush.  For sure it would be an immediate non-starter for some percentage of players in choosing their free-agent destinations.
ComebyDeanChance - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 08:37 PM EST (#230517) #
There is no doubt risk associated with Bautista's contract, and it may even be a risk that is more likely to fail than to pan out, but that doesn't mean it's not one the Jays should take.

I get a kick out of the shallow sloganeering that takes place on the internet from online 'risk assessment experts', who bandy about a few catch phrases. The Jays play in the AL East, and they're not going to outspend the New York Yankees or the Boston Red Sox in a division which may be the least competitive division in major sports. In the 16 seasons since the strike, the Jays have never been in the playoffs. The Jays and the Orioles have both missed the playoffs 14 of the 16 seasons. The number of seasons since the strike that both the Yankees and Red Sox have missed the playoffs? Zero. Never happened.

Toronto is not going to build a competitive playoff team without a significant number of gambles. This is one. It's not a 'perfect' contract from the team's perspective - that's the nature of the market. And despite the belief among some younger people that 'clever' guys 'outsmart' the market, it doesn't happen. Witness the bad contracts signed out of desperation this off-season in Oakland.
Mike Green - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 08:58 PM EST (#230518) #

I agree with Craig's comments.  It is pretty much a market value deal, but what is significant is the presence of an organization-wide commitment to winning soon.  Not at some undetermined point in the future.   

TamRa - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 09:34 PM EST (#230519) #
My completely wild gues is that on the overall value of the deal, the most likely outcome is that the Jays lose value, mildly, in terms of pure statistics. That is, to pull a random number out of the air, they are paying $65 mil for about $50 mil in statistical value.

I'm certainly open to the possibility of a less-likely but not impossible better or worse extreme.

However, I think there's something else at work here that's been alluded to but not expresly stated.

Alex has very strong beliefs about team building and not all of them are statistical. Whether he's right or wrong, he clearly believes in things like chemistry and leadership and mentoring. Bautista clearly, in HIS (Alex's) estimation) brings value to the team beyond the stat sheet.

So, in the context of what Alex was shopping for - what HE was in the market for, he did not in fact overpay. Because even if Bautista reverts to (to use a comparison that one commentator invoked) say, Casey McGeehee, those "intangible" qualities  Alex looks for do not go away - it's a "skill set" that doesn't fade with age.

Consider this - the Jays have a talented Latin shortstop who has a reputation for, possibly, not always having his head on straight...and they have a top prospect from Cuba who they quickly learned needed a Latin influance on the coaching staff. how much value, in a dollar figure, is it worth to the Jays if Escobar and Adeiny each preform half a WAR better on average because of JB's influance?

You or I might not place much value in those calculations but I'm betting Alex does.



Alternately, and this is also part of the way Alex seems to think, there's a psychological impact on the other, younger players on the team if the Jays appear unwilling to reward a great season (and I'm betting few players think "bet he can't do it again" the way fans do)

Another alternative, less likely but also consistant with what we know of Alex, he may simply have concluded that in a couple of years, if Bautista DOES maintain a 5 or 6 WAR level of production, he could put him on the trade market say after the 2012 season as a consistant top shelf hitter signed to a sweet deal (assuming the state of the franchise at the time made it a better idea to move him than to keep him) - the risk being that you have a 4-5 mil guy making 14 and you have 9-10 mil a year in sunk costs. As others have pointed out, the team has been wiling to write off such money before.

Ultimately, this is a deal not dissimilar to the Rios deal, and I had then and have now no complaints about the Rios deal. If Williams were to offer him back to us today, I'd be more than happy to drop him into CF and pay the contract.


John Northey - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 10:09 PM EST (#230522) #
AA made a good point on the radio today about how Bautista is a great guy to have as your #1 position $ guy. Here is a player who will play 3B or RF and not complain. A guy who was wanting to be involved in getting guys here this past winter.

That is what you want (outside of talent of course) in a top paid guy. Younger players will listen to him as he hit 54 home runs and is making more than anyone else in the clubhouse. Before it was Vernon Wells, who it was widely felt would not move from CF even if better options existed, who was viewed as someone who was comfortable to a point that was not good - he still tried hard and from all appearances is a good guy, but just wasn't someone who was a leader. Bautista is a guy who was waiting for a chance to lead and now, with 2010 and his new contract can.

I don't put a lot of stock into intangibles, but if you put any stock at all into them then Bautista appears to be a good one for them. He seems a lot like Pedro Guerrero was for LA in the mid-80's - in '85 he OPS+'d 181 (league leading) while playing 44 at 3B, 71 in LF, 12 at 1B, 10 in CF, and 1 full game in RF. He did that type of stuff every year back then despite being a strong hitter who could've demanded a stable position.
Dave Till - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 10:28 PM EST (#230523) #
Yay! Lots of baseball discussion! I like discussing Blue Jays baseball about as much as I like grilled cheese sandwiches - i.e., a lot.

I don't think the deal is a great deal, but I'm excited as heck that the Jays have unbelted and ponied up the dough. This signals a significant shift in Rogers' focus and it has to be considered a very promising sign for the team going forward. They are actually trying. It is hugely significant.

There was one previous sign that they are actually trying: the Hechevarria signing. But, yes, I am excited about this too. Rogers isn't pulling an Interbrew here.

From what I've seen, the approach in the AA/Beeston era is the same as it was in the Gillick/Beeston era:
- Don't sign expensive free agents.
- Concentrate financial and other resources on improving scouting and player development.
- Spend money to keep your players if they have proven to be productive.

Gillick didn't start signing expensive free agents until 1992, and signed Stieb to what was effectively a lifetime contract. And the Gillick Jays were noted for their extensive scouting staff (particularly Epy Guerrero and his Dominican pipeline).

Which leads to one other positive benefit of the Bautista signing: the Jays will now have an increased presence in Latin America.

If he had a full year in 2011 like his second half of 2010, he could hit 66 HR.

Optimism is good :-) One thing about him, though, is that he is a bit streaky - he tends to hit home runs in bunches and then go into dry spells. He had only (only!) 4 home runs in April and June last year. But I didn't realize, until I looked it up, that he was actually better in the second half than in the first.

The better option in my opinion was to see if 2010 wasn’t a fluke and retain Bautista on a 1 year contract. If Bautista had another productive season, the Jays would have had a 15 day exclusive negotiating window to work out a long term contract.

If Bautista has another productive season, it would have been very hard to keep him. At that point, he would probably have been able to command 20 million a year for something like 7 years. And I do not want to see Bautista in a Red Sox or Yankee uniform. Do Not Want.

Alternately, and this is also part of the way Alex seems to think, there's a psychological impact on the other, younger players on the team if the Jays appear unwilling to reward a great season (and I'm betting few players think "bet he can't do it again" the way fans do)

I follow a couple of Jays on Twitter, and they were very happy that this deal got done.

I don’t recall a single player that has ripped Toronto the city.

I believe that David Wells did this in his autobiography.

More often than not, teams that give out big money/long term deals to players in their 30’s, come out on the losing end. The risk is even bigger when the player in question only has one productive season on their resume.

The problem is that there has never been a player who has done what Bautista has done - there's no real way to predict what will happen next. But his 2010 wasn't a fluke. It may not be repeatable - he might get hurt or something - but it wasn't as though he was lucky. Some of those fastballs were launched out of the park at warp speed. If you count "no doubt about it" home runs, I think only McGriff and Delgado come close. (I still remember the time that McGriff hit the ball over the foul pole in Cleveland.)
Smithers - Thursday, February 17 2011 @ 11:15 PM EST (#230526) #
The problem is that there has never been a player who has done what Bautista has done - there's no real way to predict what will happen next. But his 2010 wasn't a fluke. It may not be repeatable - he might get hurt or something - but it wasn't as though he was lucky. Some of those fastballs were launched out of the park at warp speed. If you count "no doubt about it" home runs, I think only McGriff and Delgado come close. (I still remember the time that McGriff hit the ball over the foul pole in Cleveland.)

Indeed Dave.  It was pretty apparent that we were watching history unfold in front of our eyes last year watching Bautista's Herculean effort.  Such a significant achievement undoubtedly deserved it's own montage which is rewarding even after multiple viewings, but sadly, not yet set to music the way a montage is meant to.   For pretty much half of his dingers last year the pitchers didn't even bother turning and watching them sail out.   The grand slam to the upper deck in Minnesota for #53 is one of the hardest hit balls you'll ever see, especially when you consider Joe Mauer didn't hit his first home run at Target Field until late August with one that just squeaked out in left.  And for the denouement, #54 to right field is classic. 

Here's to many more years of watching Bautista hit those bombs, making AA look like a genius and leading the Jays to the promised land once again!
jvictor - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 12:31 AM EST (#230529) #

What I think is most encouraging about this deal is one of the last homers hit by Bautista, the one hit out to right field.  If he has learned to use the outside of the plate it might come in handy against pitchers who want to stay outside or umpires who are calling that strike.  Add in some confusion in the allighment of the defence, more doubles...what if Bautista is not just a dead pull hitter?  Hmmm.

By the by; Dude, love the banner.

Moe - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 12:17 PM EST (#230556) #
On the risk of repeating what I said in the other thread:  I'm not a big simply because of the lack of upside.  The risk at 14m is not terribly high but it really only becomes a steal if Bautista has several 30+ HR seasons left in him.  

It has been said here and elsewhere that if Bautista has another monster season in 2011, he is no longer affordable for the Jays, citing the Werth deal as an example.  That could be true but most people view the Werth deal as a mistake so that really shouldn't be the benchmark.  If someone were to overpay like that after another monster season, so be it. In some sense, that would be great for the Jays since Bautista would have had a great year at 1/10.

Now, if he regresses to a more normal level, the deal is fair.  But why ink a fair deal now? The Jays could have waited; a fair deal is almost always available.  And then there is the low-end scenario in which case he turns back into a 4-6m player and the Jays overpaid by a lot.  This is at least as likely as Bautista having multiple All-Star seasons.  Remember, what matters is not the performance this year but from 2012 onward.  That's a lot of risk with little upside. 
 


China fan - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 12:32 PM EST (#230560) #

....most people view the Werth deal as a mistake so that really shouldn't be the benchmark....

It doesn't matter if most baseball experts see the Werth deal as a mistake.  If Bautista becomes a free agent, it only takes one team (just one out of 30) to offer him a Werth-type deal, and suddenly the Jays have lost their best player.  It's the craziness of the marketplace, and that's why free agency is so attractive to so many players, from Pujols on down.  Free-agent negotiations aren't a matter of statistical benchmarks and careful consideration and prudent weighing of all factors.  It only takes one team, just one GM, to feel the need for a headline-grabbing signing of an easily marketed star player, and suddenly the benchmarks go out the window.  Contracts get inflated by tens of millions of dollars, and the Jays can't possibly compete on those kinds of inflated deals.   That's why it makes perfect sense to sign Bautista now, before the craziness of free agency begins.

....The Jays could have waited; a fair deal is almost always available....

See above. Free-agent negotiations are rarely based on "fair deals" because they spiral out of control as soon as any flush-with-money GM takes out his wallet to impress his fans.  If you want to negotiate a fair deal, it makes sense to do it now, a year before free agency.  That's when you actually can use benchmarks;  you can pick a reasonable parallel (Dan Uggla) and negotiate something that has a degree of rational sense to it.

 I think Anthopolous chose absolutely the best avenue on Bautista.  If he hadn't done this, he would have been gambling on dozens of young prospects who have never proven themselves. Despite the enthusiasms of the prospect addicts, you can't build an entire team on brand-new graduates of AAA.  You need some proven players, if you're going to compete in 2012, and Bautista has more evidence on his side than anyone on those top-100 lists that everyone obsesses over.

Richard S.S. - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 12:32 PM EST (#230561) #
Good deal, I think we got a bargain, but to prove it needs next season.   Prior to this deal, we would be paying either $7.6MM or $10.5MM - we now pay $8.0MM.   Next year, prior to this deal, we might let him walk; we might pay him a few Million$ more; or we might be paying Mega-Million$ - we now pay only $14.0MM.   Definitely a good deal.
CaramonLS - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 06:04 PM EST (#230566) #
Upon further reflection on the deal - I am warming up to it a little more.

This is nothing like the Wells deal at all.  Bautista has a chance (and a pretty good one) to out perform his contract.  Wells never had a chance to out perform his contract as he was getting paid like an MVP every season.

grjas - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 08:18 PM EST (#230570) #
Don't mind the deal. Don't understand the move. Why take a guy that has suddenly found his comfort zone after years of mediocrity and move him to a new position he is less comfortable with? Very odd.

Anyway, if they are going to take a risk on a position move, good they are doing it this year.
92-93 - Friday, February 18 2011 @ 09:28 PM EST (#230573) #
This move is exactly the same as the Wells deal. Wells had every chance to outperform his contract. He put up a 5.7 WAR in 2006, which easily could have been projected to be worth 23m by 2011. Coincidentally, it is. That WAR in 2011 would be worth 28.5m, or 5m in excess value. Vernon Wells finished 22nd in MVP voting in 2006.

One can claim Bautista is more likely to provide excess value in his contract than Vernon was, but it's wrong to pretend Vernon couldn't outperform his contract without winning the MVP.
92-93 - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 01:27 AM EST (#230576) #
A 29 year old Morgan Ensberg hit .283/.388/.557 with 36 HR, and finished 4th in MVP voting. His top 2 BR comparables are Edwin Encarnacion & Jose Bautista. He went on to hit .235/.396/.463 before effectively disappearing off the baseball map. Glean from that info what you wish.
Mylegacy - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 01:44 AM EST (#230577) #
Over at Jays Journal on their latest thread about Jose - they've a link to MLB/tv - that shows an explanation of exactly what Jose changed from 2009 to 2010 and not only explains but shows by a demonstration just how Jose has increased his power. The guy on the tape showing the difference is actually amazed himself as he demonstrates what Jose is doing now verses what he had been doing.

IT'S A MUST SEE _ GO SEE IT!
TamRa - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 02:57 AM EST (#230581) #
wasn't Ensberg incriminated? or am i just letting Camminiti bleed over on him?
Magpie - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 06:38 AM EST (#230582) #
That's a lot of risk with little upside.

Well, if you have a player who hits 35+ homers and draws 90+ walks, you don't really need upside... Which is what I assume they expect to happen.

Morgan Ensberg

Ensberg hurt his shoulder in May 2006 and tried to play through the injury. It didn't work, and he was never - not even remotely - the same again. A weird and random fate. Which can happen to anyone, of course.
Mike Green - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 10:02 PM EST (#230596) #

You can see the effects of Ensberg's injury in his monthly 2006 splits.

Mike Green - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 10:05 PM EST (#230597) #
Did an admin fix the link feature?  I can now link easily using the link icon without cutting and pasting in the url to be linked into the plain old text viewing.
Original Ryan - Saturday, February 19 2011 @ 10:23 PM EST (#230599) #
It still doesn't work for me using Firefox.
The_Game - Sunday, February 20 2011 @ 01:18 PM EST (#230617) #
Ensberg is a comparison that I hadn't seen yet, but it's still one that makes little sense.
bpoz - Sunday, February 20 2011 @ 02:46 PM EST (#230619) #
The subject of AA's philosophy is an interesting one.

IMO we have not seen all of AA's plan, MO or philosophy.

I know the All Star at every position and "opportunistic aspect" of his plan. 2010 was a "building year" as AA called it and asset acquisition was a major theme. Sure it cost a few wins but the team was not going to win 95+ games anyway.

The 2011 season is being called "the Fluid year" by AA. I am not quite sure of many details about it's philosophy. I know that the JB long term deal fulfills being opportunistic. Also the JPA 2011 role is probably close to the center of the Fluid concept. IMO AA thinks 2011 will be more successful than 2010 but will fall short of the 95+ win goal. Proof of that IMO is the improved bullpen and the willingness to spend about $20 mil for this pen.
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