Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Smokin' Jay Frasor Signs & Henke's A Hall Of Famer!

Smokin' Jay Frasor Signs & Henke's A Hall Of Famer!

The Blue Jays and reliever Jason Frasor have avoided arbitration by agreeing to a one year deal worth $3.5 million with a club option for $3.75 million.

Jason Frasor pitches a scoreless inning against Tampa Bay during the Jays 17-11 win at the Dome August 7. He compiled a 3-4 record with a 3.68 earned run average and four saves in 2010. Frasor also struck out 65 batters and had a WHIP of 1.382 in 63 2/3 innings.

The 34 year-old Chicago native began last season as the team's closer but wound up losing the job to Kevin Gregg early in the season. The 5-10, 175 pound righty had a rough April by blowing the save and taking the loss in the season opener in Texas enroute to an 8.38 ERA for the month. Frasor righted himself in May with a 2-0 record and an 0.82 ERA before struggling to a 6.75 ERA in June. However, he finished up strong with an ERA below three for the final three months of the season while earning 14 holds and posting an opponents batting average of .247. His 411 career appearances leave him fourth on the Jays all-time list, trailing Duane Ward (452), Tom Henke (446) and Dave Stieb (439).

Tom Henke shown on JaysVision during World Series Reunion Night at the Dome August 7, 2009.

"You can bring him in now, but he's even better later!"

Speaking of Tom Henke, a much overdue congratulations to "The Terminator" for being elected to the Canadian Hall of Fame recently. It was 26 years ago this week when the Kansas City native was claimed by the Jays from the Texas Rangers as a free agent compensation pick. Even though Joey McLaughlin, Roy Lee Jackson, Dennis Lamp and Bill Caudill tried, Henke was the Jays real first honest to goodness bonafide bullpen ace as he racked up 222 career saves (including five in the postseason) from 1985 to 1992. He was so good that he inspired this musical classic. The 6-foot-5, 215 pound righty split 58 regular season decisions with Toronto but was the winning pitcher in Games 2 and 4 of the 1985 American League Championship Series against the Royals. He struck out 644 batters in 563 innings as a Jay to go along with a sterling WHIP of 1.025. Henke earned his first All-Star selection in 1987 and led the American League with 34 saves and 62 games finished.

Henke rejoined the Texas Rangers for the 1993 and 1994 seasons and saved a career high 40 games in '93. He ended his career with the St. Louis Cardinals in 1995 where he made another All-Star appearance and posted a career low 1.82 ERA, 10 points lower than the 1.92 ERA he had with the Jays in 1989. Who can forget his fist pump after he nailed down the division clincher against Baltimore in the first season at the Dome? Henke capped off his career with the 1995 NL Rolaids Relief award after nailing down 36 saves.

Henke, Baseball America founder Allan Simpson (a publication that has helped me cope with many a cold winter!) and 1880's and 1890's star George "Dandy" Wood will be inducted at the Canadian HOF in St. Marys, Ontario June 18.

Newly acquired Frank Francisco pitches a scoreless eighth inning against the Jays at the Dome May 16, 2010. Toronto beat Texas 5-2.

With lefty Rommie Lewis being designated for assignment after the Vernon Wells deal, it's expected Frank Francisco will wear #50 with the Jays in 2011. The last time the Jays got a reliever from Texas and went on to wear #50, it worked out okay, didn't it? The 30 year-old from Santo Domingo in the Dominican Republic was traded to the Jays for catcher/first baseman Mike Napoli. Francisco entered 2010 as the Rangers closer but that didn't last long thanks to his current team. The 6-foot-2, 250 pound righty got the save on Opening Day against the Jays but blew the save in the series finale as Toronto took two out of three. After blowing two straight save opportunities, he was replaced by AL Rookie of the Year Neftali Feliz as the Texas stopper but Francisco finished with a 6-4 record, a 3.76 ERA, two saves and 15 holds.

Francisco was signed as a free agent by the Boston Red Sox but changed Sox when he was dealt to Chicago in 2002 for reliever Bobby Howry He was then flipped to Texas in 2003 for outfielder Carl Everett. He made his major league debut in May of 2004 when he was called up from...wait for it...Frisco of the Double-A Texas League (you can't make this stuff up! ). Despite winning five of six decisions with an ERA of 3.33 in 45 appearances, his season came to an end after the infamous chair throwing incident in Oakland in which a woman was hit in the face. He was suspended for the rest of the 2004 season and to add injury to insult, he underwent Tommy John surgery on his right elbow causing him to miss 2005. However, Francisco returned to the Texas bullpen and found his form in 2008 and especially 2009 when he earned 25 saves.

According to fangraphs.com, Francisco throws a fastball averaging 93 miles per hour with an 85 MPH splitter and a 79 MPH curveball. He had thrown the occasional slider and changeup around 84 MPH but apparently scrapped those in 2010. Called "2Frank" by Texas fans, Francisco will battle fellow righties Jon Rauch and Octavio Dotel to be the the Jays closer in 2011.

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 05:22 PM EST.

Smokin' Jay Frasor Signs & Henke's A Hall Of Famer! | 42 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

Alex Obal - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 05:45 PM EST (#229802) #

The last time the Jays got a reliever from Texas and went on to wear #50, it worked out okay, didn't it?

And he throws a splitter. Sure sounds like a plausible end to the Curse.

85bluejay - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 05:59 PM EST (#229803) #

ramone - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 06:04 PM EST (#229804) #

The Jays also signed Frank Francisco to a $4 mil/1yr contract. While that's nice, it also underscores that we should take everything the FO says (all FO) with a grain of salt - remember AA saying if they don't sign by the salary exchange deadline then the club will go to arbit. and will not sign 1 yr. contracts Except it wasn't the Blue Jays or AA that exchanged figures with Francisco, it was the Rangers, it wasn't AA's numbers going in so the deadline would not apply not this case. No deadline would have even been given to Francisco since this trade happened after that deadline had passed with current Blue Jay players.

cybercavalier - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 06:16 PM EST (#229805) #

Pardon me for off topic for a while: what does "FO" stand for?

85bluejay - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 06:17 PM EST (#229806) #

Yes Ramone - but it does apply to Frasor

ramone - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 06:29 PM EST (#229807) #

Yes Ramone - but it does apply to Frasor I'd disagree with you there, AA clearly said he would negoitiate multi year deals after his deadline, and Frasor's deal has a club option for 2012, thus AA has kept his word.

prankmunky - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 07:06 PM EST (#229808) #

By its usage I'm guessing FO means "front office".
I'm also going to have to agree with ramone in both cases. Frasor was technically a multi year deal and the Jays never got a chance to set an offer for Francisco.

ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, January 29 2011 @ 11:04 PM EST (#229810) #

Is there no buyout required of the option?

VBF - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 01:44 AM EST (#229812) #

Without checking, I wonder how relief pitchers are currently entering their 8th consecutive (or more) season with the same ballclub? There can't be *that* many.

Rivera....

Thomas - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 02:51 AM EST (#229814) #

The $4 million figure is below the midpoint of figures exchanged, as Francisco requested $4.8 and the Rangers submitted a $3.5 million offer.

In ex-Jays land: Ty Taubenheim signed a minor league deal with the Rangers. He hasn't pitched in the majors since appearing for the Pirates in 2008. Shawn Hill agreed to terms with the Marlins on a minor league deal that will pay him $600,000 if he makes the majors.

Finally, Mike Napoli agreed to a $5.8 million contract with Texas. While saving money was not the main motivation in the Napoli-Francisco swap, it turns out the deal with save the Jays $1.8 million plus the cash that the Rangers included in the trade.

Dave Till - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 07:04 AM EST (#229816) #

I always feel a little happier whenever Tom Henke is honoured for something. The dude totally deserves it.

One advantage of having all the Vernon Wells money to play with is that the Jays can afford to throw a little extra money at Frasor. You have to give him credit for having survived all these years. Not bad for a 33rd round draft pick.

By the way: I'll bet that one of the happiest moments of AA's life would have been the moment that he was able to call his bosses and tell them that he had just saved them 86 million dollars. I hope that Rogers gave him a bonus or something - even a 1% finder's fee would be $860,000. Or, at the very least, the Anthopoulos household should be able to enjoy all the specialty channels that they want, on the house.

Forkball - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 09:03 AM EST (#229817) #

One advantage of having all the Vernon Wells money to play with is that the Jays can afford to throw a little extra money at Frasor.

No need to waste money you don't need to just because you have it.

The Frasor decision seems odd to me. His 2011 salary was essentially the midpoint, but he gave the team an option for $3.75 million. Not that that's bad money, but if the Jays are going to pick that up he'll have to really good year. And if he has a really good year presumably a team would want to sign him for more than $3.75 million, and perhaps over 2-3 years. Unless he thought he was going to lose arbitration this doesn't make sense at all to me for Frasor.

Jdog - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 09:40 AM EST (#229819) #

Well if his agent knows that AA is likely to decline the option and go after the picks again, it nets Frasor another 650,000 dollars in the buyout which is no chump change

Dave Till - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 10:37 AM EST (#229820) #

No need to waste money you don't need to just because you have it.

Something that just occurred to me - if the Jays had gone through arbitration with Frasor, they would have had to hire someone to prepare exhibits, rehearse the club's case, and so on. That would cost money. Money that isn't debited against the team's payroll, but money nonetheless. That might explain the team's willingness to settle: why not give the extra money to the player instead of spending it on paperwork?

Forkball - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 01:30 PM EST (#229821) #

Dave - How much do you think it would cost the team to put an arbitration case together? My guess is that most of the work is done in house (people they're already paying) so the cost is minimal (less than $10k).

Well if his agent knows that AA is likely to decline the option and go after the picks again, it nets Frasor another 650,000 dollars in the buyout which is no chump change

What does that have to do with giving the team an option?

What you're suggesting is that the team declines the option next offseason, offers arbitration, Frasor accepts, is released for 1/6th his salary after the arbitration decision, and then is a free agent in March when no one has money left to spend. I'm not sure how that makes sense (ask Reed Johnson if he came out ahead).

But back to the original point, that could happen without the team being given an option from the player. If Frasor goes out and has a pitches like he did in 2009 (2.50 ERA, with a WHIP near 1) he's going to be giving up money because the Jays would pick the option up (or pick it up and trade him). Is that likely? Probably not, but why limit yourself to avoid arbitration? The only thing is maybe he's worried about getting cut in ST and not having options.... the settlement guarantees him the full amount now. Maybe it's as simple as that and his agent couldn't squeeze out $3.5 million prior to formally exchanging numbers and then got stuck with having to give an option to guarantee 100% now.

From the team's side I think it's great that they're getting team options with many players.

Magpie - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 01:46 PM EST (#229822) #

My guess is that most of the work is done in house

Not necessarily.

Tal Smith Enterprises, a firm which has provided consulting services to 26 of the 30 Major League clubs. The most recognized functions have been in the preparation and presentation of salary arbitration cases (where Tal's firm has handled more than 900 filings and tried more than 150 cases)

Tal's back in the game of course, but his firm is still a going concern.

smcs - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 02:31 PM EST (#229824) #

Without checking, I wonder how relief pitchers are currently entering their 8th consecutive (or more) season with the same ballclub? There can't be *that* many.

I believe the list looks something like Mariano Rivera, Jason Frasor, Joe Nathan and Ryan Madson. Ryan Dempster was a reliever for his first 4 years with the Cubs and is now a starter. Tim Wakefield is doing whatever he wants to in Boston. If Scot Shields re-signs with the Angels, then him as well. Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Pedro Feliciano and Frank Francisco all would have entered their 8th season, but all have switched teams this off-season.

Jdog - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 03:10 PM EST (#229825) #

What does that have to do with giving the team an option?

If Jason Frasor lost his arb case he was set to earn 3.25 million dollars. Even if he won he was only going to make 3.75.

By giving the team an option he will now guarantee himself 4.15 million one year deal or 7.25 two year deal(if option is picked up. So if your Jason Frasor and you like pitching in Toronto why not give the team an option and make yourself a little more money.

ComebyDeanChance - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 04:23 PM EST (#229827) #

Something that just occurred to me - if the Jays had gone through arbitration with Frasor, they would have had to hire someone to prepare exhibits, rehearse the club's case, and so on. That would cost money. Money that isn't debited against the team's payroll, but money nonetheless. That might explain the team's willingness to settle: why not give the extra money to the player instead of spending it on paperwork?

I'm fairly certain that the cost of a hearing is not a consideration at all. Arbitrators on the mlb roster are paid $500 per hearing day (at least they were a few years ago). Most of the teams' research is done by MLB and that arbitration -eligible bargaining co-ordination is what is responsible for the teams now winning 90% of the cases. The only real cost to a team is counsel costs for the day, and it is unlikely those costs including prep. would exceed $10 -20k for a one-day hearing. A small consideragtion compared to the sums at stake.

What the Jays have done with Frasor and Francisco is entirely consistent with what Anthopoulos said he would do. Too often, the bargaining leading up to the date of which arbitration positions are exchanged, is simply posturing. The arbitration figures are exchanged 'blindly', i.e. they are submitted at the same time with neither seeing the other figure until it is submitted, and the figures are fixed and unchangeable once in. There have been a few occasions in the past where teams have submitted higher than players. Often the players' agents will wait until those figures are in, and then make an assessment of whether they will win or lose. The 'bargaining' before that date is positioning rather than negotiating and that is what Anthopoulos is trying to end. He was successful in that regard with many more players than not.

The exchange of arbitration figures is itself fairly strategic. Both sides build a 'penalty' into the figure. Because it is final offer selection, the arbitrator has no jurisdiction but to pick one offer or the other. The team's offer will be lower than what it would settle for, and the player's offer higher that what the player would settle for. The arbitrator looks at the mid-point between the two offers and determines whether that figure is higher or lower than what he would award. So the most important thing in submitting a figure, is to try and predict what figure the other side will submit.

Very often once the figures are submitted, the agent will then begin the bargaining that ought to have occurred before. The Jays of the past, in order to avoid friction, would then often split the difference between the two offers, or pay more than they felt they should just to keep the peace. Each settlement or award for an arbitration-eligible player is a precedent for others, and every 'keep the peace' payment forces others to pay that much more as well.

In Frasor's case, the player was willing to go beyond the one-year deal for which arbitration figures were exchanged, and sign a club-friendly option for a two-year potential deal. Anthopoulos always exempted the situation where a player was willing to go beyond the one arbitration year.

Francisco is a player that the Jays never bargained with, so it's no exception to the rule.

Bautista is a good example. The Jays are positioned at 7.6 and Bautista at 10.5. Obviously he would have taken 10 and the Jays likely would have settled at 8. Bautista's camp has to convince an arbitrator, that 9 million (which falls on the Jay's side of the mid-point) is not enough, and that he would award the player more than 9 million in order to get to Bautista's figure. I think it's a hard sell for Bautista but we'll see. If Bautista's team thinks that it's a hard sell, Anthopoulos says he won't split the difference and do the bargaining now which ought to have resulted in a settlement before arbitration positions were exchanged. Anthopoulos has exempted negotiations about longer term deals, which of course are not part of the arbitration procedure.

Dave Till - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 05:47 PM EST (#229828) #

Thanks for the detailed post about the arbitration process - much appreciated.

Gerry - Sunday, January 30 2011 @ 08:53 PM EST (#229831) #

I heard on baseball prospectus that there are six teams who handle arbitration as the Jays do. I don't know who the others are other than the Braves.

Gerry - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 09:32 AM EST (#229840) #

Here is a great story on ex-Jay Dennis Lamp.

Here's something you probably won't find in any other grocery store outside the Bristol Farms in Newport Beach: a former major league pitcher manning the seafood counter.

And it's no publicity stunt.

Though Dennis Lamp fields the occasional autograph request, most shoppers seem to have no idea that the burly, outgoing man handling their halibut once came within three outs of pitching a no-hitter against the Milwaukee Brewers.

Mike Green - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 09:58 AM EST (#229842) #

Thanks for the link, Gerry. Maybe Dirk Hayhurst will make a trip out to Newport Beach; it sounds like there may be a longer story there somewhere. In the Bill James Baseball Books of the early 90s, there was some fine writing by people like Mike Kopf and Rob Neyer about the people of baseball.

Mike Green - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 10:07 AM EST (#229843) #

The January 31 birthday team features Nolan Ryan, Ernie Banks and Jackie Robinson. You've got decent catching (Pinky Hargrave and Fred Kendall), a good first baseman (George Burns), and some additional pitching (Josh Johnson, Hank Aguirre and Ted Power), but not much of an outfield.

#2JBrumfield - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 11:18 AM EST (#229846) #

Nice find on the Lamp article, Gerry!

Old friend Dave Bush is back in the American League with the Texas Rangers. He'll join forces with temporary Jay Mike Napoli.

Mike Green - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 11:41 AM EST (#229849) #

Making Dave the first Bush to play for the Rangers. Unfortunately, Dave's middle name is Thomas instead of William, so his teammates will have to work a little harder on his nickname.

ComebyDeanChance - Monday, January 31 2011 @ 12:31 PM EST (#229854) #

Actually the Bush family has a long history with the Rangers, though in an off-field capacity. David's contract is actually a minor league/invite one.

Shaker - Tuesday, February 01 2011 @ 11:35 AM EST (#229874) #

Jdog is the only one to mention a $650K buyout. I have found nothing online about a buyout. Can someone confirm or deny the buyout's existence?
Thanks.

If there's no buyout, it does seem like a VERY strange deal for Frasor and his agent to sign.

92-93 - Tuesday, February 01 2011 @ 04:31 PM EST (#229882) #

No buyout has been reported. He likely confuses 1/6th of a cut arb player's salary with a buyout. They could let Frasor walk for free.

Frasor accepts the offer because it earns him a guaranteed 250k more than going to arbitration does, and it also guarantees his contract. All for the price of offering an option to the only team he's ever really known at a price higher than what he sees similar relievers getting on the open market.

ComebyDeanChance - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 12:36 AM EST (#229883) #

Cot's has nothing about a buyout of the option. While Cot's isn't conclusive, it's at least authoritative and it appears the deal is a simple 3.5/3.75. Without checking out other club options, that seems to depart from the norm.

I don't know how much the 'only (almost) team I've ever known' factors into it (he's from Chicago and I suspect feels just as comfortable in most US cities as Toronto), but guaranteeing the deal is certainly worth something to Frasor and that explanation makes sense. It's a pretty good deal for Toronto, particularly compared to Oakland's signing of Balfour.

bpoz - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 11:01 AM EST (#229885) #

The J Fraser contract is interesting.
Let me try to have a go at looking at it from all viewpoints.

1st yr $3.5mil, 2nd yr 3.75mil = $7.25mil total.

If Fraser gets injured this year and never pitches again the team must pay $7.25mil. Note: Similarly if A Hill is hurt before any option decisions are made on his contract then what...Can the Jays still decline any options.

The unconfirmed buyout of $650,000 if exercised gives Fraser more money for 2011 than his $3.75 Arb asking price, clearly a sort of Fraser victory. IMO the Jays must gain something to do this. What could it be.
1) If Fraser qualifies for an A or B pick and you want the pick you don't need the option to get it.
2)So AA must want that 2nd year of control, I am guessing. F Fransisco can walk after 2011, Dotel & Rauch have a club option so the team has control, go, stay or try for draft picks.
3)If 2012 is a year to try to win, especially if there is a 2nd wild card then AA does not have to compete as hard as other teams for experienced relievers.
4) AA can trade them at the dead line (never did that before) or after the season if he has a surplus of relief pitching. The surplus of RPs can come from Mills, Carlson, Richmond, Roenicke or numerous others, except they are inexperienced.

AA has said that he is always thinking 2 moves ahead and he loves depth.

Shaker - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 12:46 PM EST (#229886) #

bpoz,

The 2nd year is a club option. As far as I can tell it's the exact same deal that Dotel and Rauch have, which may go some way to explaining why he signed it.

If Frasor has a bad year or gets injured in 2011, the 2012 option would not be exercised so the cost to the Jays would only be $3.5M.
If Frasor has a medium year, he would be compared to Rauch and Dotel and all other available RP before the Jays decided whether to exercise or not.
If Frasor has a great year, he would be in line for a big raise and likely a multi year contract, yet he has given up that potential as the Jays would exercise his $3.75M option and he would receive only a ~7% raise.

Frasor has signed a reasonable contract for 2011 (for both him and the club), but in doing so he gave up any upside in 2012 salary that he may have received with a great 2011 under his belt. To give up the option of a big payday in 2012 he received no downside protection.

I know why Anthopujols signed this deal, I just don't know why Frasor did.

Richard S.S. - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 01:31 PM EST (#229887) #

Decisions

Ricky Romero, Brandon Morrow, Brett Cecil, and Jesse Litsch are the Starting Rotation. Kyle Drabek and Marc Rzepczynski are the candidates for the 5th Starter. I prefer trying Marc Rzepczynski as 5th Starter. You need to see what he can do, if you need to trade another Starter any time soon. It might do Kyle Drabek some good to pitch at Las Vegas. We will still have trouble determining the values of Brad Mills, Scott Richmond and Robert Ray.

Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch, Octavio Dotel, Carlos Villanueva, David Purcey, Shawn Camp and Jason Frasor will probably be the Bullpen. Josh Roenicke and Jo-Jo Reyes must clear waivers. Decisions must be made, if any of Casey Janssen, Jesse Carlson or a Starter who doesn't make the rotation, are wanted in the Bullpen.

Any futher decisions will be the Bench. A.A. has said he is waiting until Spring Training and the players cut by other teams to fill out the Bench. The cuts (to avoid paying full value)must be made by March 28 with season starting March 31. We need a 4th Outfielder, who can play center, better than Corey Patterson; a Middle Infielder who can play 1B, 2B, SS, 3B, or most of the positions: and maybe a backup catcher better than Jose Molina. So unless something special comes up, A.A. is done until then.

vw_fan17 - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 03:22 PM EST (#229888) #

Frasor has signed a reasonable contract for 2011 (for both him and the club), but in doing so he gave up any upside in 2012 salary that he may have received with a great 2011 under his belt. To give up the option of a big payday in 2012 he received no downside protection.

Shaker - I would say he actually DID get some downside protection: before he signed his contract, he was only guaranteed (at best) $625K if the arbitrator awarded him $3.75M, and the Jays cut him before spring training. If the arbitrator awarded the $3.25M the Jays submitted (IIRC), it was only $541K. And the Jays philosophy is (AA has said it too, IIRC): no one-year contracts after arbitration numbers are submitted.

So, he got another $2.6M guaranteed for this year - that's not bad..

Mike Green - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 05:12 PM EST (#229889) #

Happy birthday to Travis Snider and my mom. In their honour, the Groundhogs of Feb 2:

C-       Walt Kuhn
1B-     Pat Tabler
2B-     Red Schoenienst
SS-     Adam Everett
3B-     Willie Kamm
LF-     Travis Snider
CF-     Don Buford
RF-     Ray Demmitt
DH-    Melvin Mora

C-       Mike Garbark
MidIF-Ronny Cedeno
CorIF-Max Alvis

SP-     Wes Ferrell
SP-     John Tudor
SP-     Orval Overall
SP-     Scott Erickson
SP-     Sheldon Jones

RP-     Dale Murray
RP-     Warren Brusstar
RP-     Manny Sarmiento
RP-     Pat Clements
RP-     Paul Kilgus
RP-     Scott Maine

I love this club although I doubt that they would make the playoffs in the AL in 2011. The bullpen is pretty good (there is no ace), but the names are like a trip down memory lane. The rotation is first-rate. Wes Ferrell and John Tudor is a great 1-2 punch. Overall is a great #3. Erickson is a helluva #4 and Jones/Kilgus are way above average #5s. The lineup has a bunch of guys who get on base pretty well, but not much punch (at least until Snider has a few 35-40 homer seasons under his belt). Having Everett and Schoendienst up the middle behind Tudor is just about perfect.

CeeBee - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 05:19 PM EST (#229890) #

Thats a pretty good team. Pretty much every era is represented and a lot of names do bring back fond memories :)

Shaker - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 06:08 PM EST (#229891) #

You might be right there vw_fan17, I hadn't thought of it that way.

I guess the kiss-off payment is Frasor's downside. Given his talent level though, he would then just sign another mlb contract. The timing of the kiss-off might determine how much he'd get paid. The closer to opening day the less he'd likely receive...

However, if Frasor wins his arb case, AA would probably be able to flip Frasor (and cash?) for an asset. My guess is AA would do that rather than send Frasor packing for $625k while getting nothing in return.

Shaker - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 06:27 PM EST (#229892) #

Richard,

I'd like to see a LHP (Rzep or Mills) in the #5 slot, so that they could work out of the (RHP dominated) pen in the first month, when the 5th starter is skipped.

For the 4th slot, I hope RHP Litsch succeeds in holding back Drabek and Stewart for a couple months. Gives them more seasoning and slows their clocks.

Unlike JP, AA doesn't seem like the type to hoard mediocre talents like Reyes and Roenicke. He'll try to slip them down to AAA, but I doubt he'll lose much sleep if they get plucked away.

re the Bench, I guess Scotty Pods is an upgrade over Patterson, but not by much. In 2008, Milledge played 130 games in CF...I'd rather take a flyer on him.

Still think there's room for LHB Branyan, too.

Decisions indeed.

Original Ryan - Wednesday, February 02 2011 @ 07:23 PM EST (#229893) #

I'm fine with Corey Patterson making the team as a backup outfielder. He has good speed, a good glove and a passable bat. You can't ask for much more than that from a fourth outfielder.

Jose Bautista and Juan Rivera can both play first base, and I imagine Edwin Encarnacion will be getting some work there during spring training. There isn't really a need to have a guy on the bench who can play first.

bpoz - Thursday, February 03 2011 @ 12:11 PM EST (#229896) #

Richard SS, I think Morrow has 1 option left, but not sure.
Carlos V, F Francisco, S Camp and others can be cut in ST @1/6 cost, I believe.

I hope somehow we break camp with the best possible bullpen. IMO Dotel, Rauch, Francisco, Fraser & Camp are all proven & LHP Purcey has a lot of upside (IMO) so maybe he is given a job. I don't know how good Carlos V is.

So will there be any competition? With 1 LHP & 6 RHP looks like a $3mil+ guy will end up in some unimportant situations.
The 6th ranked guy of 6 RHP will get mop up duty & could also get little playing time, which could make him rusty.

I remember it written in general that often the 5th SP in the opening day rotation would be skipped due to days off and then not do so well and ended being demoted to the minors. The new 5th guy would be sharp and ended up claiming that job due to good performance. I don't think that will affect our SPs because IMO we wont be skipping anyone but in the pen we could have a forgotten guy.

Decisions indeed.
If Roenicke pitches real well in ST I would not like to lose him.
Looks like AAA could have some pretty good pitching. It should make for stiff competition. If 1 of our expensive FAs is doing badly & someone is doing real well in AAA then I suppose we could DFA him and if unclaimed he could go down and work on stuff, like EE.

TamRa - Friday, February 04 2011 @ 11:31 PM EST (#229977) #

Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch, Octavio Dotel, Carlos Villanueva, David Purcey, Shawn Camp, Jason Frasor, Josh Roenicke, Jo-Jo Reyes, Brandon Morrow and Jesse Litsch are out of options. Everyone else is more fortunate.

Not so. per Gregor:

The Blue Jays have seven players who are out of options: Davis, John McDonald, Molina, Dotel, Dustin McGowan, Shawn Camp and David Purcey. Those players must be placed on the 25-man active roster -- if healthy -- or the club risks losing them to another team.

Everyone there was already going to make the 25 man roster (f healthy) except McGowan and his injury protects him for now. However, he failed to name Reyes on the list, but then he mentions him as being the one guy subject to being lost in a latter paragraph.

The main difference in your list and his, though, is Vilianueva and Roenicke - I've seen nothing anywhere to indicate either is out of options.

Personally, I think Janssen beats out Villianueva to join the 4 Closers, and Camp and Purcey. Reyes will pass through waivers, i can't guess if he'll get claimed. Everyone else goes to Vegas. (assuming health of course.

The question to me is who loses out among Drabek, Zep, and Litsch.

I do agree with you though, that the bench will likely feature someone not now in the organization.

Magpie - Friday, February 04 2011 @ 11:39 PM EST (#229978) #

The main difference in your list and his, though, is Vilianueva and Roenicke - I've seen nothing anywhere to indicate either is out of options.

I would think Roenicke has one option year left, but I assume the Brewers used Villanueva's three options in 2006, 2007, and 2010.

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