I'm rolling thunder, pouring rain
I'm coming on like a hurricane
My lightning's flashing across the sky
You're only young but you're gonna die
I won't take no prisoners won't spare no lives
Nobody's putting up a fight
I got my bell I'm gonna take you to hell
I respectfully disagree on this point. The current uniforms of the Brewers and Padres actually look quite similar. I thought Hoffman looked right at home in a Brewers uniform.
Now if Hoffman had gone to the Diamondbacks or Phillies, he would have looked strange.
So the big question is: Trevor Hoffman, Hall of Famer?
We surely know enough now to look at #s of saves as unimportant for the merits of a Hall case.
BBRef has a feature story and poll about Hoffman and the HOF:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/9655
Looks like a wide majority see him IN.
FWIW, I
m one of the few so far who has voted, "No, he doesn't deserve it but he'll get enough votes one day anyway."
I'm not saying there should be a ton of closers voted in, because the save is a flawed statistic, but I am saying that Hoffman is one of the few who deserves consideration outside of Rivera, probably Wagner too. Who do you think is better, really? Sure Petco helped hide his decline, but he did do ok in a launch-pad for one year. I can understand your favouring Wagner over Hoffman, due to his numbers seeming more dominant, and if they pitch to the same age Wagner's numbers will likely be better (except for save totals) but Hoffman deserves consideration, and I won't be upset if he gets in.
Henke has his late start and "early " retirement to hold against him. Quisenberry is also hurt by the fact his career is only peak. Not that Franco was a bad pitcher, but I think the comparison is insulting to Hoffman - Hoffman pitched in a higher offense era and had better component stats.
There's a thread on Fangraphs at the moment, that deals with this issue, one poster mentions consistent excellence goes a long way. To get the counting stats that Hoffman accumulated, you have to be good for a very long time. That deserves consideration (doesn't necessarily deserve election, but consideration? yes.)
He was consistently one of the top relievers, and occasionally the best. I think his counting stats are noticeably better than Lee Smith's and Tekulve, other names that get thrown out in comparison.
To recap for the TLDR crew: Hoffman shouldn't necessarily get in, but he deserves legitimate consideration, same with Wagner of the non-Rivera group. Nobody else in my mind is close to those 2 for the sub-Rivera consideration, and that includes "better" pitchers.
1089 IP, 2.87 ERA, 141 ERA+. Would a starting pitcher get consideration with these numbers?
What if it we apply a 1.5 leverage factor to Hoffman's innings given the context of when they were pitched. Would a starting pitcher with 1600 IP get HoF consideration?
Hoffman's counting numbers are superficially dazzling. But they're just saves, basically the baseball equivalent of Pez.
Probably not, although Dizzy Dean's numbers are not superficially much better. But you also have to adjust the ERA+ to reflect the difference between starting and relief innings. Let's put it this way. Billy Wagner has a career ERA+ of 187.
But you also have to adjust the ERA+ to reflect the difference between starting and relief innings.
Good catch. I agree entirely.