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Awards A.L. Gold Gloves '10 Announced ...
Yes, that's right. For the fifth time, Derek Jeter's fielding glove has officially beend deemed "Gold." In fact, three-quarters of the Yankee infield -- Mark Teixeira, Robby Cano and Jeter -- were so recognized this year, so everyone in that infield except Alex Rodriguez ...

The complete list for AL GG'10:

P Marl Buehrle, White Sox
C Joe Mauer, Twins
1B Mark Teixeira, Yankees
2B Robinson Cano, Yankees
SS Derek Jeter, Yankees
3B Evan Longoria, Rays
OF Ichiro Suzuki, Mariners
OF Carl Crawford, Rays
OF Franklin Gutierrez, Mariners

Really, no surprises. Any thoughts, BoxNation? Who got ripped off? Who got erroneously rewarded, and if you answer that, who SHOULD have won that position? And hey, this is the AL  -- no Gold Glove DH?

Posted by Mick Doherty on Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 06:16 PM EST.
A.L. Gold Gloves '10 Announced ... | 43 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
James W - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 07:09 PM EST (#225215) #

No surprises?  ......  Derek Jeter again does not deserve his award.  Alexei Ramirez should have won the award, but you could pick a name out of a hat and given them the gold glove, and not been more wrong than the voters.

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Chuck - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 07:13 PM EST (#225216) #
BB-Ref's take on AL shortstops.
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Mick Doherty - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 07:20 PM EST (#225217) #
I said no surprises. not "nothing that shouln't have happened." And you are SO wrong about Ramirez anyway .... he's very good, but have you seen Elvis Andrus play shortstop???
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ogator - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 08:17 PM EST (#225221) #
  Mick:  I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion but could you replace the racist, "gypped" with "ripped off" or "cheated".  I don't mean to be overly sensitive or politically correct, just helpful.
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Mike Green - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 09:27 PM EST (#225227) #
It's weird.  I grew up with that word and had no idea about the origin until I was quite a bit older.  But then, I always thought it was "juice harp" rather than the derogatory "jew's harp".  Anyways, go for "cheated".

UZR and DRS both like Alexei Ramirez first, with Cliff Pennington close behind.  Ramirez has the best 2 year numbers pretty easily.  At second base, Mark Ellis would probably have been the best choice with Orlando Hudson and Aaron Hill 2nd and 3rd.  Cano would be middle of the pack.   It's funny- the best Yankee defender was almost surely Brett Gardner who probably brought more defensive value than Ichiro. Gutierrez, Crawford and Longoria were very good, if obvious, picks.

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mathesond - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 09:59 PM EST (#225229) #
And hey, this is the AL -- no Gold Glove DH?

Not since Palmeiro retired...
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Dewey - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 10:19 PM EST (#225230) #
Mick:  I'm not sure I'm adding to the discussion but could you replace the racist, "gypped" with "ripped off" or "cheated".  I don't mean to be overly sensitive or politically correct, just helpful.

Well, for bleep's sake, you *are* being Politically Correct.  And as with most political correctness it's fatuous.  Anyway, the "correct" term for these people is now, it seems, "Roma".  Just don't anyone say they've been romaed. 
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Mick Doherty - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 10:22 PM EST (#225231) #
Okay, ogator, no problem. That word actually hasn't appeared in the wide-ranging "do not use" lists of the last three places I've worked, so it never occurred to me ...
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Hodgie - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 10:58 PM EST (#225232) #
Sigh. Not meaning to be pedantic, but while the term may very well be derogatory in nature should we really be concerned about offending carrion birds or 19th century servants at the Universities of Cambridge and Durham England?

"A person who cheats or swindles people. A trickster. A person who is not quite honest. Gyp is the Greek word for vulture. In the 19th century, the Universities of Cambridge and Durham in England provided servants, who attended one or more undergraduates. Students called the servants “gyps” because the gyps found many ways of obtaining ale and tips from them and preyed upon the students like vultures. Gyps made beds, ran errands, helped their young masters over the college walls late at night, and provided other services. Sometimes they ran away with everything they could lay their hands on."

Jordan Almond, Dictionary of Word Origins: A History of the Words, Expressions, and Clichés We Use, Citadel Press, New York, 1985, page 113

Leaving the world of political correctness behind, I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.......

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andrewkw - Tuesday, November 09 2010 @ 11:01 PM EST (#225233) #
I wish I could take credit for this, but I read it earlier in regards to the gold glove awards.  They are as relevant as audio cassettes. 
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Alex Obal - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 12:23 AM EST (#225235) #
Since the Yankees had the greatest defensive infield in history, I think we have to temper our enthusiasm about CC Sabathia's season. Lester for Cy!
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Magpie - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 01:02 AM EST (#225236) #
The word "gypsy" bears roughly the same relation to the people it's applied to as the word "Indian" does to the native peoples of this hemisphere - just as Columbus believed he'd found India, so did most European nations believe the Romani were originally from Egypt.
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China fan - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:24 AM EST (#225238) #
According to a Mohawk friend of mine, most aboriginal people don't mind the term "Indian."   He says he is just glad that Columbus wasn't looking for Turkey.
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scottt - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 07:00 AM EST (#225239) #
I had not  noticed it was that bad until now. Who cast the votes?
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James W - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 07:43 AM EST (#225240) #
I suppose it was naive of me to be surprised that the managers and coaches would vote the worst shortstop to win the gold glove, but I was.  And as noted below, the statistics I prefer to use have Alexei Ramirez firmly at the top of the shortstop list.  Perhaps all those plays that Andrus makes look spectacular, Ramirez makes them look easy?  I saw maybe 20 or so Rangers games, and didn't see anything gold-glove worthy out of the young shortstop. 
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christaylor - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 10:18 AM EST (#225244) #
I am glad someone pointed this out -- I was about to login to the McMaster online OED.

This is one of those classic examples of where impulse to political correctness, which I agree as an attitude and am sympathetic to politically, myself messes with the language.

Another, similar, albeit less common example are those who believe "chicanery" has anything to do with the Chicano people.

Yup nothing to do with baseball, nothing to see here...
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bpoz - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 10:37 AM EST (#225245) #
These offshoot remarks bring a personality or individualism to this site. I so much enjoy that aspect when ever it pops up.
Well done to all the contributers. A special bow to Mylegacy, very often but especially most recently your remarks have been so enjoyable.
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Mike Green - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 11:56 AM EST (#225247) #
The etymology is subject to all kinds of unknowns, most sources indicate that either a benign or malign origin is possible.  The name "Egypt" is actually Greek; apparently the "h" sound originally in the word was difficult to pronounce and so a "g" was inserted. 

More importantly, "gypped" is now commonly understood, and not just by the politically correct, as a slur against the Roma.  "Chicanery" and "Niggardly", on the other hand are well understood to be not insulting.  The worst excesses of political correctness ("excuse me, but I just struck a match") are indeed tiresome, but avoiding  (what is commonly understood to be) slurs against a people currently the subject of discrimination and worse in Europe is not. 

Back to baseball.

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John Northey - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 12:40 PM EST (#225249) #
I've felt for years that the Gold Gloves should be voted on by advance scouts as they are paid to know what everyone on the field is doing and how well. Odds are they'd be a lot better at judging it than coaches who are spending the game paying attention to their own players, which they are not allowed to vote for anyways.
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Dewey - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 01:32 PM EST (#225251) #
Mike, with respect sir, I would wager that the vast majority of people using the word gyp in the sense of cheat have no idea whatsoever that Romany are involved in their use of the word (as you yourself suggested in your earlier post:  “I grew up with that word and had no idea about the origin until I was quite a bit older.”).  They intend no slur against anyone except the person cheating them.  The dictionary [ie., the OED] will confirm that there is no necessary connection between gyp (the action) and Gypsy (the Romany people).  So I disagree entirely with your notion that the matter  is, in fact, “commonly understood”.

Indeed very little of what is said to be commonly understood is such.   Once again, respect the fog.
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Matthew E - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 01:51 PM EST (#225252) #
I say we err on the side of not making racial slurs. (My personal favourite synonym for "cheated" is "rooked", by the way.)
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Magpie - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 02:12 PM EST (#225254) #
My personal favourite synonym for "cheated" is "rooked", by the way.

Hmm. I thought "rooked" was used by people who had trouble remembering how queenside castling worked...
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Dewey - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 02:44 PM EST (#225256) #
I say we err on the side of not making racial slurs.

Whoa.  Begs a lot of questions, doesn’t it Matthew?   To be a “racial slur”, would it not have to be intended as such?  When is a “racial slur” not a racial slur?

(“If a man speaks in the forest, and there is no woman there to hear him; is he still wrong?”) 

O.K., O.K.  I'm finished.

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TimberLee - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:16 PM EST (#225258) #

Two points, neither of which would be worth anyone's attention if there were real ball games being played:

(1)  Why would anyone come up with the idea of having managers vote for the league's best fielders? An opposing team's manager is not necessarily paying much attention to the season-long defensive performances of players at the various positions. I can't imagine that any manager considers such a responsibility to be a significant part of his job.

(2) If a person had a Slavic mother and an Uruguayan father, wouldn't he be a racial Slur?

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MatO - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:24 PM EST (#225259) #

Racial slur?  I didn't even know how the word was spelled until today.

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Gerry - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:32 PM EST (#225260) #

Beyond the box score rates catcher defense.

John Buck fares reasonably well coming in at #22 out of 120.

Jose Molina is at #49.  Molina scores well on caught stealing but loses on the passed balls.

FYI, Miguel Olivo is at #25 and profiles like Molina, good on stealing, bad on passed balls.

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Mike Green - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:35 PM EST (#225261) #
I was 35 years old before I heard someone used the phrase "he jewed me down" .  It occurred when someone was describing a situation and was said without any malice toward me or even awkwardness.  I was puzzled for a moment, and then realized what it meant and how ignorant the speaker was.
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Mike Green - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:38 PM EST (#225262) #
Gerry didn't mention that Arencibia was a net positive on the measurable part of catcher defence last year.
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Matthew E - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 03:58 PM EST (#225263) #
I was 35 years old before I heard someone used the phrase "he jewed me down" .  It occurred when someone was describing a situation and was said without any malice toward me or even awkwardness.  I was puzzled for a moment, and then realized what it meant and how ignorant the speaker was.

I heard a guy say that while he was giving a presentation at work one time years ago. I was the only one in our group to react to it; I am told that my eyes bugged out and my jaw dropped. Funny, there was a woman from (I think) Israel in the group too and she didn't blink. Anyway, the guy later apologized and said that it just slipped out, but I wonder if maybe he faced tougher consequences after that.
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DaveB - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 06:48 PM EST (#225271) #
Gerry, thanks for that link to catcher defense.

Defensive evaluation is such a crapshoot once you get past the obvious two or three standouts at each position. Here's the URL (sorry, I can't get my link thingy to work in posts) to the Fielding Bible voting results for best in the Majors ... http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/complete-votetally.asp ... It was a 10-man panel. Only two players at Catcher, 1B and CF were named in the Top 10 on all 10 ballots; only three players at 3B, LF and SS were in the Top 10 on all 10 ballots.

Jays who finished in the top 10 at their positions were Overbay (eighth), Hill (eighth) and Escobar (fourth). The only other Jay who received a vote was Snider, who finished in a tie for 20th with Pat Burrell.

FYI, Olivo was ranked fifth overall at catcher and was named in the top 10 on seven ballots.

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scottt - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 07:20 PM EST (#225274) #
22. Buck
25. Olivo
32. Arencibia
49. Molina

That suggests that there isn't much Molina can teach JPA, assuming Molina has a better arm. Tiny sample of course.

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John Northey - Wednesday, November 10 2010 @ 10:49 PM EST (#225282) #
I'd take these rankings with serious grains of salt. Many rankings work like this one - stolen bases/caught stealing, wild pitches/passed balls, errors. Not one word about ability to handle a pitching staff, the thing that some view as vital but incredibly hard to measure. I remember for years trying to get people to notice that I-Rod consistently had staffs with sub-par ERA's and that he was well known in the early days for not going to pitcher/catcher meetings as he just focused on his arm strength. Meanwhile Mike Piazza was known for trying to learn everything he could about other teams hitters and his own pitchers and consistently had staffs with ERA's that were among the best in baseball. Yet you'd see tons of reports about Piazza being a poor catcher and I-Rod being great. There is a lot more to catching than being able to throw a ball hard and accurate (although that helps). If a guy (like Molina) consistently has ERA's for his pitchers that are lower than other catchers have for their pitchers on the same staff one has to wonder if something is going on. Same with cases like I-Rod vs Piazza - if a staff is regularly among the best in ERA or is regularly among the worst doesn't one have to wonder if the catcher has anything to do with it?

A good way to study this would be to check what happens with a series of pitchers and pitch selection and location when being caught by different catchers - especially rookies.

Ah well, probably just tilting at windmills here.
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CeeBee - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 07:23 AM EST (#225285) #
Windmills can sure be fascinating though. :)
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bpoz - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 08:40 AM EST (#225286) #
You are definitely on to something John. I remember Pat Boarders. Cito praised him for calling for pitches that might bounce in front of him and the pitcher throwing it with the confidence that Boarders would stop it. Just to be clear they were not supposed to bounce but the risk was high that it could.
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katman - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 02:27 PM EST (#225316) #

Not only did Borders block balls, he blocked the plate. Something else we didn't see enough of in 2010.

Let's hope JP plays the game better.

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Mike Green - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 02:32 PM EST (#225317) #
I remember Pat Boarders

Funny, I remember Gene Tenants.
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Jonny German - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 02:38 PM EST (#225319) #
I remember the Alamo! Great second baseman!
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Mick Doherty - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 03:09 PM EST (#225326) #
Genius, Mike. A double (homonym AND synonym) pun ... can we catch all theses guys living together under one (Phil) Roof?
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MatO - Thursday, November 11 2010 @ 03:38 PM EST (#225329) #
Genius, Mike. A double (homonym AND synonym) pun ... can we catch all theses guys living together under one (Phil) Roof?   That would be one crowded kitschen.
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CaramonLS - Friday, November 12 2010 @ 01:20 AM EST (#225354) #
If Jeter is in fact, the worst SS in the AL in terms of defense and it is the managers and coaches who are the ones that voted for him...

Should these people be managing baseball teams?

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James W - Friday, November 12 2010 @ 08:52 AM EST (#225360) #
Well, as an example, how often does the Cleveland Indians coaching staff compare Jeter's defense to Andrus or Ramirez? I'm going to guess it's not very often. I don't think it's a criticism of them as coaches; it's simply that they shouldn't be voting for the awards if anyone's going to take it seriously.
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bpoz - Friday, November 12 2010 @ 06:36 PM EST (#225414) #
Every once in a while someone mentions a crack or 2 in the NYY. Jeter & Posada's defense, AJ's pitching even when healthy. I wonder if the dam may burst one day soon. A couple of injuries and M Rivera losing it and you never know.
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CeeBee - Friday, November 12 2010 @ 07:09 PM EST (#225416) #
If the dam bursts the Yankees certainly have the money to rebuild it fast.... unless the money goes with the dam.
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A.L. Gold Gloves '10 Announced ... | 43 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.