Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - Arizona Fall League Update 2.0

It's been a bit over a week since we last looked at what's been going on with the Peoria Javelinas, the Jays' shared AFL team.

Monday, October 18 - Peoria 4 Mesa 2

Eric Thames: 0-2, 2 BB, K
Mike McDade: 0-5
Alan Farina: 1 IP, 1 H, 1 K

Tuesday, October 19 - Mesa 6 Peoria 5

Eric Thames: 0-3, 2 BB, R
Mike McDade: 1-3, 2B, BB, R
Matt Daly: 1.1 IP, 0 everything else

Wednesday, October 20 - Peoria 9 Phoenix 5

Adam Loewen: 2-5, BB, R, RBI
Mike McDade: 1-5, HR, BB, 2 R, 3 RBI
Dan Farquhar: 1 IP, 2 BB, 1 K

Thursday, October 21 - Phoenix 4 Peoria 3

Adeiny Hechavarria: 0-2, RBI, CS
Eric Thames: 1-4, RBI, 2 K, SB
Mike McDade: 1-4, R
Alan Farina: 1.1 IP, 1 H

Friday, October 22 - Scottsdale 12 Peoria 4

Adeiny Hechavarria: 0-2, K
Mike McDade: 2-4, R, K
Eric Thames: 1-4, RBI, 2 K, SB
Marc Rzepczynski: 4 IP, 6 H, 2 BB, 2 K, 1R (0ER)
Matt Daly: 1 IP, 2 H, BB, 4 ER

Saturday, October 23 - Peoria Javelinas 7 Peoria Saguaros 2

Adam Loewen: 0-4, K
Eric Thames: 1-2, HR, K
Dan Farquhar: 1 IP, K

Monday, October 25 - Peoria 9 Surprise 9 (11 innings)

Eric Thames: 1-6, 2B, R, RBI, 2 K
Mike McDade: 1-4, R, 2 BB, K
Alan Farina: 1 IP, H, K

Peoria 7 Scottsdale 4

Eric Thames: 0-4, BB, R, 2 K, picked off
Matt Daly: 1 IP, H, BB, K

Mike McDade is batting .297/.395/.459 with 5 walks and 3 strikeouts through 37 at bats. Eric Thames sits at .279/.380/.465 with 6 walks and 13 strikeouts in 42 at bats. Loewen (13) and Hech (4) haven't really had enough at bats to mean anything (not that 37 or 42 mean anything either). As for the pitchers, well, Alan Farina has pitched well... in 4.2 innings.

The more interesting stuff to come out of the AFL are the scouting reports, so let's see what we can dig up.

From Keith Law's twitter:

"Yes, not a fan. "Bad body" is kind. RT @andymc9293: @keithlaw Have you seen Mike McDade play? Any opinion on his future? 24 Oct"

"No, not right now it isn't, nor do I project it to be. RT @DS_I_AM: @keithlaw Hechavarria's defense is better then Iglesias'. "

And from Bryan Smith of Fangraphs via BalzacChieftain in the other thread:

"To return the discussion to where it began — this is what the great writers do, I’m told — seeing Eric Thames (Blue Jays) in Scottsdale is why I believe that writing about batting practices has value. I went to Scottsdale with some subconscious knowledge of his 2010 good season (.288/.370/.526 in the Eastern League), but seeing him in person helps me answer those, “Should I believe or shouldn’t I?” questions that pop up in my chats’ queues. In this case, you should believe: he is really strong, and seems to have a nice understanding and usage of backspin. He also hit the longest home run I saw today, but there I go getting results-based again."

If anyone finds any other scouting reports, feel free to post them here.

Posted by Dave Rutt on Wednesday, October 27 2010 @ 05:25 PM EDT.

Arizona Fall League Update 2.0 | 43 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

tercet - Wednesday, October 27 2010 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#224628) #

Kevin Ahrens is joining a Dominican Team in the next few days according to his facebook page..

katman - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 01:48 AM EDT (#224633) #

McDade may have a bad body, but his bat seems to be working well.... I say let him show his stuff, and let's all see.

PeterG - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#224643) #

I don't care about his body, he hits wherever he goes. If he continues to hit at AA this year, he is a legitimate prospect. I'm sure he will try to streamline the bod somewhat upon realization that Toronto may soon be beckoning. Despite this, he is said to be a good defensive 1b and that may become a position of need.

BalzacChieftain - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#224644) #

It's been awhile, but wasn't there a section in Moneyball about the A's drafting players whose bodies didn't project well but had great statistics at the plate? Not sure how that worked out for them, but I would agree with the above postings. Big deal on the body if the guy can hit.

bpoz - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 09:26 AM EDT (#224650) #

I wonder who is faster McDade or Cooper. Ron Cey & Kirby Puckett did OK with their body type.

Magpie - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 09:50 AM EDT (#224654) #

A remarkable number of outstanding baseball players, going back to Yogi Berra (and before him to Hack Wilson) have had "bad bodies." Bill James commented on this years ago - short and stocky may be an advantage for hitters. Not that McDade is short (at least not as I recognize the term.)

Mike Green - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 10:15 AM EDT (#224656) #

I am not worried too much about McDade's "bad body". The question is whether he can develop better strike zone control. He's off to a nice start in the AFL in that department with a 5/4 W/K rate.

ayjackson - Thursday, October 28 2010 @ 10:07 PM EDT (#224694) #

I'm really hoping to see Mastroianni and Emaus on the Jays bench next year. Emaus has had two good Springs with the big club, I hope he can play his way on to the team. Maestro is tearing up some Latin American league right now.

92-93 - Friday, October 29 2010 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#224714) #

Maestro has done nothing but hit everywhere he's been, and I'm excited to see that type of player in person. Is it crazy to think he can be a Brett Gardner type of player, the kind of guy who is extremely valuable to good baseball teams? As long as his D is solid, why not use him on the MLB club as #4 OF?

Mike Green - Friday, October 29 2010 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#224716) #

Sure. The odds are against him though, because he's a year older than Gardner was. He turned 25 in August during his fine year in the EL. Gardner had a similar year in the EL turning 24 in August of 2007.

The thing is that Gardner is actually a valuable everyday player (and arguably would have been the most valuable everyday centerfielder in the AL had the Yankees given him the job). I believe that Mastroianni would be a valuable 4th outfielder, hopefully getting 70% of his at-bats against LHP.

TamRa - Friday, October 29 2010 @ 09:06 PM EDT (#224726) #

I'm not sure that I agree that a one year age difference means "the odds are against him" being a similar player to Gardner. That might be compensating TOO much for a relatively small age difference.

I'd agree that it's a caveat worth noting, as is there realtive pedigree. but their actual professional performance has enough similarities that i'd venture to say he has a better than 50% chance of being a similar offensive player, albeit perhaps with a shorter run of peak years.

Mike Green - Friday, October 29 2010 @ 09:13 PM EDT (#224727) #

I should clarify. Given where Gardner was at age 24 in the Eastern League, he had a bit of an uphill battle to become a good everyday player, as he has. Being 25 lowers the odds even more.

TamRa - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 01:54 AM EDT (#224732) #

ok, i can buy that - if the context is "Gardner overcame long odds and logically the odds of a replication from Darin are longer"...that's a reasonable conclusion.

Checking B-R though, I have to correct you. Gardner was in AAA at 24. In fact, he played almost half the games in his age 23 season at AAA.

Mastroianni put up half his age 23 season at AA - almost precisely one year slower than Gardner.

Not surprising given Gardner was a 3rd rounder and Mastroianni was a 16th rounder - probably even the organization was slow to appreciate what we might have here.

A year by year comparison is interesting. What follows is not me arguing with you so much as just thinking out loud.

Both played their age 21 (draft) season in the NYPL and DM had a higher OPS than Gardner in a similar amount of work.

At 22, Gardner was skipped to Hi-A and killed it and got a promotion to AA where he was slow to adjust. By contrast, Mastro went to Lo-A and struggled.

THAT year is the one difference in their development curve.

At 23, Gardner consolidated for half a season in AA and then went to AAA where he hit lightly again. DM's age 23 season looked very much like BG's age 22 season.

Gardner in AAA at 24 and Mastroianni in AA at 24 again look very similar.

Maybe it's just simplistic on my part but i don't see why that patter wouldn't hold. Gardner was drafted two years earlier than mastro and gained a year coming through the minors, so he makes the majors for good in 2008 at 24, and if Mastroianni forced a late season promotion this year he'd still be one development year behind. To my simplistic mind, it looks like a valid comparison, except that Mastroianni's time at the top of the curve might be shorter.

I'm sure there's some complex formula that demonstrates that being one development year behind means something more significant than that but I can't see it.

The other thing i may be slow on is this...

Drafted as a JR at age 21, sign, do the normal thing and finish the year in rookie ball - almost every signed draftee does.

Second year, questionable guys are in short season, regular guys are in Lo-A, special guys are in Hi-A (no one is going to mistake a 16th rounded for a special player yet - unless he was a bonus baby steal)

Third year, that regular guy (and anyone who might surprise out of the questionable guys) are at HI-A...and this is there age 23 season...some guys accelerate that, as Gardner did, but you are not really BEHIND are you? The better of these guys will accelerate and Mastroianni did that by pushing into AA for more than half his age 23 season.

At age 24, AA is about where the "non-special" guy should be. The jays chose not to be aggressive with him this year as the Yanks were with Gardner but one wonders if he might not have handled it fine. Maybe he's "behind" more because of the management's choices than his abilities?

To be clear, i don't think either guy will be a star and i think it's reasonable that Gardner will end up being marginally more valuable.

So - in conclusion - while i understand and accept your coment about Mastroianni in relation to your opinion of Gardner's development - in context it makes sense - I still ultimately have to mildly disagree because i DON'T think that a third rounder who graduated to AA in the middle of his age 22 season and to AAA in the middle of his age 23 season was overcoming any long odds. He was right on or maybe a bit ahead of schedule for a mid-level prospect.
so in the context of MY opinion of Gardner to this point, i think Mastroianni has a reasonable chance (say...60%?) barring injuries of being a compareable offensive major leaguer to Gardner. if he gets an opportunity.

bpoz - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 10:00 AM EDT (#224736) #

There are some dates/deadlines coming up. Is it Dec for them. Declare Free Agency, accept Arbitration, Non Tender, Fix 40 man roster.... I know the Option pickup and rejection has already started.
I don't understand why K woods, L Berkman & N Johnson are still on the NYY 40 Man Roster. Their options have been rejected, so why are they still on the 40 man roster?

ayjackson - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#224738) #

Holy freaking sudden spike in plate discipline, Batman. McDade with another three walks last night. His BB:K ratio is 8:4 in roughly 50 PA. His fall line is up to .326/.442/.512. It's a small sample size and may mean nothing, but I wonder if he went there with instructions to take a patient approach. Could be a real breakout player next year.

rtcaino - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 11:04 AM EDT (#224739) #

Could be a real breakout player next year.

Not so fast, KLaw says he has a bad body.

/ sarcasm

TamRa - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 12:12 PM EDT (#224740) #

I don't understand why K woods, L Berkman & N Johnson are still on the NYY 40 Man Roster. Their options have been rejected, so why are they still on the 40 man roster?

Because you are not officially a free agent (i.e. off the roster) until you file, unless the team moves before then to release you.

At least, I'm 90% sure that's how it works.

Flex - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#224741) #

wasn't there a section in Moneyball about the A's drafting players whose bodies didn't project well but had great statistics at the plate? Not sure how that worked out for them

Kevin Youkilis was the poster boy for that approach. Beane said he wasn’t drafting kids for their ability to pose in underwear ads but for their skill at the plate. You could say that worked out all right.

Too bad they didn't draft kids for their ability to not be flaming jerks.

SJE - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 06:27 PM EDT (#224742) #

Has anybody heard why Hechevarria is not playing in the AFL? Still hamstring problems?

DaveB - Saturday, October 30 2010 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#224744) #

At 22, Gardner was skipped to Hi-A and killed it and got a promotion to AA where he was slow to adjust. By contrast, Mastro went to Lo-A and struggled.

THAT year is the one difference in their development curve.

That one year represents a pretty significant difference in the quality of prospect at that point in their pro careers. To go from the NYPL one year to the FSL at age 22 and do so well that you earn a mid-season promotion to AA, is rapid progress that justified Gardner being picked in the third round and marked him as a legitimate ML prospect. It would be similar to Asher Wojciechowski starting next year in the FSL, being a mid-season all-star and then promoted to New Hampshire. It wouldn't matter how he did in half a dozen starts at New Hampshire, everyone would be over the moon with his progress. But to go from the NYPL to the Midwest League, and struggle like Mastroianni did, is kind of what you expect from a 16th round pick from a Division 2 program and marks him as "just a guy" in the organization. Also lost in the hitting stats is the fact Mastroianni was switched from 2B to CF in his second pro year, and nobody really knew how well he would adapt to the new position. It's to his credit that he quickly turned himself into a very good CF and resumed hitting, allowing him to get on a development track that is remarkably similar to Gardner's in almost every respect, and only one year behind. The low draft status and bad second pro year in Lansing has had a lingering effect on the perception of him as a prospect. Most of us and perhaps even the Jays still think of him as a potential fourth or fifth outfielder, while Gardner had future starter written all over him as soon as he had that all-star season in the FSL.

It raises kind of an interesting point for 2011. If the Jays sign a new fourth OF who has Major League experience, can Mastroianni make the team as the fifth OF, a defensive replacement and pinch-runner and maybe the third or fourth choice as pinch-hitter, and starts a very small number of games, or do you send him to Vegas so he can play every day at a higher level than the year before, and be called up in case of injury? In other words, is he still worth "developing" if he can already do the limited number of things that a fifth OF is asked to do, and if no one projects him to be anything more than that? Maybe it's as simple as Mastroianni having a great spring training camp next year. Gardner started the 2008 season in AAA and when he was called up to the Yankees in mid-season, he was immediately thrown into the starting lineup. It is a bit odd that such similarly productive minor leaguers could be considered such different quality prospects. No one seems to project Mastroianni to start for the Jays in the near future despite their need for better outfield defense, and better OBP and speed in the lineup.

Andres Torres (he just a homer!!) had similar numbers to Mastroianni in the Midwest League, FSL and Eastern League, one year younger at each level. He had two stints with the Tigers at 24 and 25 years old, couldn't hit, got a later shot with the Rangers and spent about five years wandering the Minors before he finally showed up with the Giants. You never know how things will turn out for prospects but it would be a shame if Mastroianni turns into that kind of player for someone other than the Jays.

TamRa - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 01:09 AM EDT (#224746) #

That one year represents a pretty significant difference in the quality of prospect at that point in their pro careers. To go from the NYPL one year to the FSL at age 22 and do so well that you earn a mid-season promotion to AA, is rapid progress that justified Gardner being picked in the third round and marked him as a legitimate ML prospect. It would be similar to Asher Wojciechowski starting next year in the FSL, being a mid-season all-star and then promoted to New Hampshire. It wouldn't matter how he did in half a dozen starts at New Hampshire, everyone would be over the moon with his progress. But to go from the NYPL to the Midwest League, and struggle like Mastroianni did, is kind of what you expect from a 16th round pick from a Division 2 program and marks him as "just a guy" in the organization. Also lost in the hitting stats is the fact Mastroianni was switched from 2B to CF in his second pro year, and nobody really knew how well he would adapt to the new position. It's to his credit that he quickly turned himself into a very good CF and resumed hitting, allowing him to get on a development track that is remarkably similar to Gardner's in almost every respect, and only one year behind. The low draft status and bad second pro year in Lansing has had a lingering effect on the perception of him as a prospect. Most of us and perhaps even the Jays still think of him as a potential fourth or fifth outfielder, while Gardner had future starter written all over him as soon as he had that all-star season in the FSL.

I see nothing there I'd disagree with.

It raises kind of an interesting point for 2011. If the Jays sign a new fourth OF who has Major League experience, can Mastroianni make the team as the fifth OF, a defensive replacement and pinch-runner and maybe the third or fourth choice as pinch-hitter, and starts a very small number of games, or do you send him to Vegas so he can play every day at a higher level than the year before, and be called up in case of injury? In other words, is he still worth "developing" if he can already do the limited number of things that a fifth OF is asked to do, and if no one projects him to be anything more than that? Maybe it's as simple as Mastroianni having a great spring training camp next year. Gardner started the 2008 season in AAA and when he was called up to the Yankees in mid-season, he was immediately thrown into the starting lineup. It is a bit odd that such similarly productive minor leaguers could be considered such different quality prospects. No one seems to project Mastroianni to start for the Jays in the near future despite their need for better outfield defense, and better OBP and speed in the lineup.

I'd send him to Vegas and let performance and major league opportunity dictate. He'll do better in the long run. To me the bigger question is, even if we assume Lewis has a short shelf life, with at least two OF spots nominally spoken for, does mastro have what it takes to get past Thames. At present, i think most people assume Thames has the higher ceiling by a considerable stretch and that makes it difficult to project Mastro as a starter.
if there was an obvious unhindered path to the starting lineup, i'd be reasonably optomistic he could start in the majors.

Andres Torres (he just a homer!!) had similar numbers to Mastroianni in the Midwest League, FSL and Eastern League, one year younger at each level. He had two stints with the Tigers at 24 and 25 years old, couldn't hit, got a later shot with the Rangers and spent about five years wandering the Minors before he finally showed up with the Giants. You never know how things will turn out for prospects but it would be a shame if Mastroianni turns into that kind of player for someone other than the Jays.

Hadn't realized Torres had a compaerable minor league history ( to the same point) - interesting. interesting in that that would make Torres and Gardner pretty comparable through age 24/25...and the different outcome for the two illustrates how difficult it is to extrapolate a minor league record to major league performance.

bball12 - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 10:26 AM EDT (#224748) #

Mastro's fate will be determined by the new organization's philosophy.

If they decide to stick with the Cito style Weekend Beer Softball league approach - Mastro will be organizational filler at best.

If they decide its time to build a balanced team - then he has a small chance with the Blue Jays.

What I find most interesting about Mastro's career so far:

1) Most of the accolades - and there have been alot of them - come from other organizations - his opponents and their managers. They do not come from the Blue Jays.
Simply put - the Blue Jays have never really valued him. But his opponents know he is a game changer.

2) Mastro is portrayed as a "light hitting" OF because he doesnt hit many homeruns. Nothing could be further from the truth as he is a pure line drive hitter. Just about everything he hits is hit hard.
He has an uncanny ability to hit the ball on the sweet spot. He is also very patient at the plate - perhaps his biggest improvement as a professional.

3) Mastro has virtually no bunt hits. He isnt your typical fast guy that bunts to help his average.

4) Never mentioned anywhere - Mastro's 2nd year in pro ball - out 5 weeks with a hip flexor - and played the entire year - foolishly - with a right arm that was falling off. About 7 days after the season ended he had complete Tommy John surgery - and was ready for spring training 5 months later. Never mentioned anywhere by the Blue Jays. Only reports you see on his 2nd year is that he stunk.

5) Despite what has been reported in the past - Mastro was an exceptional 2nd basemen - ask anyone that has ever seen him play. He was moved off of that position by the Blue Jays and very quickly became an exceptional CF.

6) On the bases - and he is on them alot - he disrupts pitchers as well as anyone as I ever seen. Best first step I have ever seen.

It will be interesting to see which way the new management team goes - that and that alone will decide Mastro's fate.

IMO - he would be alot better off if he could get himself onto a team that understand the steroid era is over - and that balance wins Championships.

China fan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:20 AM EDT (#224749) #

....he would be alot better off if he could get himself onto a team that understand the steroid era is over.....

Implying that the Jays are riddled with steroid-users and that's the main reason why they hit a lot of home runs? If this is really your contention, it damages the credibility of the rest of your analysis.

bball12 - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:28 AM EDT (#224750) #

Twist words however you like.
I did not say - nor did I imply that. You did.

Again - if the organization decides to go for a more balanced team - then a guy like Mastro has a small chance.

If they decide to pursue a Cito-style Homerun Derby approach - he has no chance.

bpoz - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:29 AM EDT (#224751) #

bball12,

Very informative. Just to sort of recap:- All Star FSL/EL, I read about, OF assists (2 in 1 game) and disruptive on base paths, has speed and good bb/k rate,leads off too.

I have not seen this any where so I don't know what it is called:- total hits less extra base hit= singles. Singles less SBs gives you 3 numbers ( 20-8=12), so 8 of 20 singles become runner in scoring position. Some how you must throw CS in there but IMO "his number" looks good.

I hope we protect him from the Rule 5. If he has charisma I dare say he was a fan favorite every where he played.

ramone - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:33 AM EDT (#224752) #

Whether they are correct or not here is what BA recently said about Mastro in their Eastern League Chat:

I've addressed the other Fisher Cats but will say Mastroianni earned some plaudits for his speed and CF defense. His bat is not that of a championship-quality CF starter but he has a chance to be a nice 4th outfielder if not a second-division regular, and our sources seemed pretty impressed with how he plays, his energy, etc.

bball12 - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:45 AM EDT (#224753) #

I guess the main point I was trying to make was that it comes down to the new managements approach to the game.
Most everyone knows at this point that Mastro can play.

With 'Old managements approach" - Mastro just wouldnt fit in. Not saying he is great - or lousy - just wouldnt fit in.

DaveB - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#224754) #

bball12 ... really good post. Thanks for the first-hand insight about Mastroianni and for reminding me about the TJ surgery. I'd forgotten that.

IMO - he would be alot better off if he could get himself onto a team that understand the steroid era is over - and that balance wins Championships.

I think he's already on that team. AA has pretty much outlined that balanced philosophy in both words and actions in terms of prospect acquisition, but it's a transition that isn't going to happen overnight. Farrell has said and implied that some of the same things are priorities for him, too.

bpoz - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#224755) #

I have always believed that Cito has had pretty good success, so he may as well use a Cito style if he has one.His organization should get him his style of players too IMO. Can Cito adjust? I don't know.
IMO 2 players had their best years to date under Cito. Bautista & Buck. Bautista's BB/K rate was good 100/116 and Buck's not so good 16/111. I don't have examples but there are probably players that don't succeed under Cito's style.

China fan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 12:13 PM EDT (#224756) #

.....Cito-style Homerun Derby approach....

How am I twisting words? You keep repeating the same stuff -- implying that Gaston and the Jays were DELIBERATELY trying to hit home runs at the expense of OBP. It was you who used the "steroid" word -- leaving it there without explanation and lots of insinuations. You're implying that the Jays of 2010 were a bunch of beer-fueled weekend softball players who do nothing but swing for the fences. How about a more accurate summation: the Jays were a team with a lot of mediocre hitters, and they excelled at one thing: hitting home runs. That's a lot better than excelling at nothing.

China fan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#224757) #

......With 'Old managements approach" - Mastro just wouldnt fit in. Not saying he is great - or lousy - just wouldnt fit in.....

This is completely inaccurate. If Mastro has any hope for the majors, he's got to win the 4th outfielder job (at least at the beginning). For the Jays in 2010, the 4th outfielder was DeWayne Wise. He's a speedy guy, good defence, with a slugging average of only .393. How is this different from a Mastro-type player? (In fact, Mastro's slugging average this season was .398, making him very similar to Wise.) Gaston did not show any bias in favor of beer-league home-run hitters for the 4th outfield spot. If Mastro is as good as you say he is, he should be able to beat out DeWayne Wise for the 4th outfielder spot in 2011 or 2012. He didn't suffer any discrimination against his type of hitter in 2010.

China fan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 12:34 PM EDT (#224759) #

One last point to make about the "old management" argument: it was Anthopolous -- the new management -- who was ultimately in charge of the Jays minor-league system in 2010. Cito Gaston has nothing to do with New Hampshire or Las Vegas. It was Anthopolous, not Gaston, who made the ultimate decision to keep Mastro at the AA level for the whole season. Mastro will be turning 26 next season, and it's still unclear if he'll be promoted to AAA, let alone the majors. The odds against him, at this point, are pretty long. But it was the "new management" -- not the old management -- who kept Mastro at the AA level for the full season in 2010. To imply that he is suffering from the prejudices of Cito Gaston (the clear implication of the "old management" crack) is rather absurd.

DaveB - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 12:42 PM EDT (#224760) #

Mastroianni earned some plaudits for his speed and CF defense. His bat is not that of a championship-quality CF starter but he has a chance to be a nice 4th outfielder if not a second-division regular, and our sources seemed pretty impressed with how he plays, his energy, etc.

Funny, the Giants might win a championship with a CF who was not considered even major league sub quality. Being in the AL East just makes things so different. Any other division can produce a playoff team that might not be good enough to finish third in the AL East.

i think most people assume Thames has the higher ceiling by a considerable stretch and that makes it difficult to project Mastro as a starter.
if there was an obvious unhindered path to the starting lineup, i'd be reasonably optomistic he could start in the majors.

I'm not sure the path is that hindered. Wells could easily move to the corner OF if there was a superior defensive CF who could post a .350 OBP and steal 40 bases. I agree that Thames has a higher ceiling as a hitter, maybe much higher. That raises the issue of lineup value. Is a guy who can lead off, get on base, steal bases and excel at a key defensive position less valuable than an average fielding corner OF who can post an .850 OPS in the middle of the batting order?

I view Bautista as the future DH of the Jays, a guy who can also play two or three positions if necessary. He may not hit 50 HRs again, probably not, but I think he has sustainable power/production for 3-5 years. The only reason he would start at RF or 3B or even 1B over the next 3-5 years would be because the Jays don't acquire or develop another OF and corner infielder. I agree with you Will that i would put Mastroianni in Vegas to start 2011, but I don't see much standing in his way if he continues to play well. Maybe all he needs is a chance.

bball12 - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#224761) #

China Fan

1) We just disagree on the beer softball thing. They do show no patience at the plate - are horrible on the base paths and swing for the fences on every pitch.
And its not like I was the first to observe it. Even Dallas Braden - someone who actually plays the game - likened them to a beer softball league. So we disagree on that one.

2) Why do you want to make it personal?. My guess is that Cito didnt even know Mastro's name - no less thought about him playing.
Cito is a bang baller - and bang ballers dont win championships nowadays. Balance wins.

3) AA made the right choice in keeping Mastro in AA. Going to the PCL in the middle of the New Hampshire season would have been a really dumb thing to do. What is your point?
BTW - Mastro will be 26 on August 26th - with most of the next season behind him. Your clever phrasing implies that he will be playing the year as a 26 year old. - Pathetic

Bottom line - I think Mastro will get a chance to do his thing - but I dont think it will be the Blue Jays that give him that chance.

Time will tell I guess.

earlweaverfan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#224762) #

Bottom line - I think Mastro will get a chance to do his thing - but I dont think it will be the Blue Jays that give him that chance.

I would find it very interesting to see the trail of evidence to prove that a) the Jays haven't taken Mastroianni seriously, b) and since he has shown his upside potential more recently, have not taken that growth seriously, and c) even with Farrell having replaced Cito and even with he and AA having stated their goals for more run production so clearly, they still do not value Mastroianni as someone with speed, defense, and on-base percentage to burn.

If the only evidence this year has been keeping him at AA, well, they did do a lot to keep that team intact to give them a shot at a championship. By contrast, they moved Calderone up to the AAA team - should we see that as evidence that they see Calderone as more likely to hit the majors than either Mastroianni or Thames? Seems pretty unlikely.

As for the slugging focus on the Jays under Cito, bball, has it occurred to you that Cito's job these last two years was to make the most of the cards he was dealt? What has happened this last year is that, at a time when most of us thought that the Jays would be re-grouping at best, coping with the loss of Doc, living through the first of a few losing seasons, Cito led the team to an enjoyable winning season, with fans and players alike believing that this team can win and having a great time whenever they turned out. All those home runs made for a very enjoyable team to watch, game in and game out. No one thought we were going to the World Series, so this was a pretty appealing alternative.

As for next year, I think the Jays have too many players who show weak patience at the plate, I agree. I also believe that a team that wants to win the AL East will need to hit plenty of home runs, but with lots more guys on base. They will also need to be much smarter at moving runners along. Jays players will either step up to those priorities, or step out to some other team.

But there is nothing in what happened in 2010 that has set the Jays back, to the contrary. And Mastroianni is now getting close to the stage of his development when he can help them take this next step up.

If he keeps progressing, a role on the Jays will be found for him. He has far more upside than Wise, and that slot, at least, will go to him whenever he steps up to take it. And if he can hit the ball hard a lot of the time, as you say, then major league coaching will teach him how to make the most of it and he could get far more at bats than Dwayne ever did.

TamRa - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#224763) #

a few points:

4) Never mentioned anywhere - Mastro's 2nd year in pro ball - out 5 weeks with a hip flexor - and played the entire year - foolishly - with a right arm that was falling off. About 7 days after the season ended he had complete Tommy John surgery - and was ready for spring training 5 months later. Never mentioned anywhere by the Blue Jays. Only reports you see on his 2nd year is that he stunk.

I didn't know about the surgery (and the bad arm) at all. that and the other injury you mentioned to me is a complete game changer on the Gardner/Mastroianni comparison. It often grinds my gears that such information is so hard to find concerning minor leaguers.

Second - if he really was a good 2B, and if Hill is willing to move to 3B, then why oh why are the jays not moving him back to that position? if there's serious competition for playing time in the OF (Wells, Snider, Bautista, Thames, maybe Loewen) over the next few years, and yet none of them solve the leadoff issue, why not shift him back, and in 2012 (if not before) you can go with him at second and leading off and Hill at third and you don't have to worry about getting a lead-off hitter out of your outfielders.

Third - I have to offer a point of order in Cito's defense. The "Cito likes wall bangers above all else" riff doesn't explain why Wise got to play so much. He thinks about defense too. and the whole veteran thing. it's that last point that might have kept Mastro out of the lineup if Cito was still here, not any lack of HR power.

If Cito liked punch over all else, Wise would have rotted on the end of the bench.

China fan - Sunday, October 31 2010 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#224764) #

.....Cito is a bang baller - and bang ballers dont win championships nowadays. Balance wins.....

This is a very simplistic generalization. You're assuming that Gaston deliberately chose to emphasize home runs at the expense of OBP. The more likely and obvious explanation is that he capitalized on the strengths of the players he had, and their strengths were home-run hitting. Any manager is limited by the personnel that he is given. If the lineup lacked balance, was that his fault? Dallas Braden may have casually compared the Jays to a "beer-league team" but did he say that this was Gaston's fault? Is it possible for any manager to magically create a high-OBP player with the personnel that he is given? To choose a specific example: when Aaron Hill and Adam Lind were hitting homers and little else, was that because of Gaston or was that because of Hill and Lind? Both of those players had good OBPs in 2009 under Gaston. Where is the evidence that Hill and Lind were suddenly transformed into "beer-league bangers" because of Gaston? They did just fine under Gaston in 2009, so it's difficult to believe that they would suddenly decline because of Gaston.

TheBunk - Monday, November 01 2010 @ 04:02 AM EDT (#224772) #

There's no guarantee that Mastro has a future with the Blue Jays but with his ability to play a premium position, good speed on the base paths and on base skills, he's going to make a nice fourth outfielder for some major league team.

bpoz - Monday, November 01 2010 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#224774) #

I have already expressed my appreciation & thanks to bball12 for his detailed write up of Maestro. It very nicely fulfilled my need for Blue Jay info.

Can anyone do one for any other players? Hopefully his ML career will start soon. My opinion on a few players.

B Mills pro career has been outstanding IMO everywhere except LV (IMO PCL effect) & TOronto (IMO he mainly faced tough teams). He is still a rookie/inexperienced and so in comparison each of our big 4 got beat up by tough opponents at that stage so I believe in him. Sorry about not having more details and interesting facts.

M McDade:- All State catcher who switched to 1B due to weight gain. Switch hitter, good power, good defense. I don't mean to be insulting (maybe wrong), but can we reasonably compare his stature to C & P Fielder, R Howard, T Snider. They all seem to be doing well. Suppose he has a good 2011 in AA, being a 2007 draftee he must be protected on the 40 man after the 2011 season so... Sept call up impossible? Also the philosophy, if it exists (I am unclear) of "don't rush the youngsters", so McDade is young IF he starts in AA then what about that philosophy. Our T Pastornicky did well in AA in 2010 (08 draft), IMO he has a chance of being more than a utility IF. Then how about youngsters like Thon Jr moving fast, its possible.

Can anyone say anything about J Tolisano. His 2009 @ FSL was not bad, some numbers were good, repeated 2010 at FSL again not bad but maybe he was injured (only 218ABs).

Hodgie - Monday, November 01 2010 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#224775) #

"Second - if he really was a good 2B, and if Hill is willing to move to 3B, then why oh why are the jays not moving him back to that position?"

Probably because bball's opinion notwithstanding, Mastroianni's defense at second base has never really been described as anything more than adequate. In an interview with the New England Baseball Journal a year ago Mastroianni even describes his play at second as nothing special. I find it hard to believe that the organization would have moved him to the outfield on a whim.

TamRa - Monday, November 01 2010 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#224790) #

that was kind of what i was getting at - that IF he had good D at second it made too much sense to move him back for it not to happen...thus it made me doubt that claim.

bpoz - Monday, November 01 2010 @ 05:09 PM EDT (#224805) #

Zep could finish 2010 with 150+IP. Good work by the player development team.

ayjackson - Wednesday, November 03 2010 @ 05:15 PM EDT (#224883) #

John Tolisano showed up in Arizona today (presumably as a injury replacement for Hechavarria). He's playing 3B and so far today has a double and a walk in three trips.

Rzep dominating the poor minor leaguers on the hill.

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