Most reporters still have a high opinion of Wakamatsu, blaming the front office.  So does Wakamatsu make it onto AA's manager short-list?  Should he?  I don't know enough to say yes or no but some of our west coast bauxites might have an opinion.

My conspiracy theory view is that at the end of the season, provided there is still some momentum (ie the Jays finish 5 games over .500 or so) is that the club gives Cito a 2-year extention. My reading of the situation with him "retiring" after this year was that the team kindof panicked when things fell apart at the end of last year, but didn't feel like they could just give Cito the axe after 200 games on account of his stature in Toronto. I admittedly don't know anything about the clubhouse morale and all that, but it seems at least from the outside that the team is playing well (and overachieving) and that the players are having fun.

It's a well known fact that all fans pretty much hate their managers until they win a lot or reach a status of being beyond reproach even if they do crazy stuff (the La Russa corollary). With that being said, I am pretty happy with the way things have gone with Cito. Once you accept that the team isn't going to pinch hit (only applicable when starters are sitting, otherwise no one to PH... and I guess that is sort of the point of an "off day") and that the bullpen usage is going to be very conventional (slave to the save) albeit with a willingness to deploy good guys in key situations before the ninth, I think he has been pretty good. He limits severely the amounts that Wise and McDonald play, has identified who the best guys are and a reasonable order to bat them in, and rides them heavily, and he has been very reasonable with the starting pitchers. He rarely bunts (although it is occasionally called for) and rarely calls for the IBB (thank goodness) two of my least favourite tactics. The offensive philosophy has worked pretty well to boot, and I give extra credit for Bautista, who know one really believed in.

he'd rather not juggle the rest of the lineup (we saw Joe Maddon doing the same thing with his cleanup hitter this weekend)

For good or for bad, I'd suggest that Maddon is not locked in to a specific lineup. At all. He has players moving every which way. He had Jaso leading off for a while. He's had Upton near the top and near the bottom. Other than Longoria and Pena, I'm not sure who has a specific lineup spot for him. I'd argue that Maddon probably dropped Johnson into the 4-hole entirely by design, not as a simple convenience.

John Gibbons?

;-)

John Gibbons?

;-)

I do think that the Arnsberg-Gaston partnership did not work as well as the Walton-Gaston partnership is working.   I suspect that the stress of the difficult partnership last year did not help Gaston's frame of mind and contributed to some of the unfortunate events. 

Amazing. Even when Clarence is the cause of a near-mutiny in the clubhouse it's somehow not his fault and we have to give him the benefit of the doubt because a pitching coach most thought was a miracle worker may have been causing Clarence stress. Starting Dewayne Wise in LF this weekend while Snider & Lewis rode pine was a clear indication of the problem with Clarence as manager.

and it took him a while to settle on the most productive spots for Bautista and Overbay.

I love the implication that Overbay is being productive because he's hitting 7th, as opposed to him being productive because he has been every single year of his MLB career and just got off to a slow start. Lyle has been the team's 2nd best hitter for 2.5 months now and shouldn't be at the bottom of the order.

You need to be on base to hit into double plays, so Cito's team can avoid them despite the fact he doesn't steal or hit-n-run much. The team's GIDP totals correlated well with their team OBPs under Gibbons - in 2005 & 2006 they hit into a lot of them because they were 4th in OBP too. In 2007 their OBP was terrible so they were at the bottom of the league in GIDP.

I liked Gibbons, and I especially thought he did a good job running a bullpen.

My memory had Gibbons being a good bullpen manager at first but later seasons making it look like the early success was just luck. I just went through his teams on BB-Ref and it appears that my impression at the time was out to lunch. All of his full season teams and his partial season in 2008 had lots of good reliever performances, and often from unlikely sources - Brian Tallet, Jeremy Accardo, Brian Wolfe, Casey Janssen, Jesse Carlson.

I certainly hope the Jays don't open their pocketbooks on Cliff Lee and/or Carl Crawford - I would be disappointed

because the back end of those 6/7 yr. contracts are going to be a drag on the team. I prefer they open their

pocketbooks on the June draft picks and IFA market  and keep doing so for the long haul. Use players for 5/6

yrs and then say goodbye in a trade or draft picks with very few exceptions. I like the Aaron Hill type contracts,

even if his doesn't work out well.

I think this is an interesting point, but I don't think the GM factor explains it entirely. All winter long we heard from every source but the organization itself how bad the rift in the clubhouse was. It seems every time I heard an offseason radio interview with Wilner, he was asked about the managing situation and would outright say - or strongly imply - that the dissension ran much deeper than what became public knowledge over the last week of the 2009 season. Now, it wasn't just Wilner, but he was perhaps most vocal in this opinion.

Now, I do think the GMs played a role in the differing fates of Gaston and Wakamatsu. Gaston was publicly supported and it was made clear he was returning for another season at the helm. While Jack Z didn't stand as firmly behind Wakamatsu, he did say, as of a week ago or so, something to the effect of Wakamatsu is the club's manager and will be going forward. While the GMs did not express the same degree of support for the managers, I don't find that a throughly convincing explanation.

Apparently, the discord was deep, running across different sections of the clubhouse and was unlike anything Wilner's ever seen before. Maybe this discontent with Cito's tactics still exists. Or the players have stifled their feelings either because of the team's performance or because they know Cito will retire at the end of the year. However, I think that if the issue was as severe as has been speculated, it would have boiled over again at some point during the season so far. And, as far as we can tell, it hasn't. Somehow, someway, Cito (perhaps with AA's assistance) has been able to assert some measure of control over the clubhouse and I think that's certainly contributed to the success of the team.

I think the bigger problem is that DHing JP leaves the team with no catcher on the bench. Agree with it or not, Cito is clearly uncomfortable with doing that. The rotation would be a second issue, but I think the primary reason that JP will not DH - until September anyway - is that Cito wouldn't want to be put in a situation where the team may have to lose the DH or catch McDonald.

If Cito comes back next year they need to take his toys away. No more MacDonald (sadly won't really happen since he has an odd 2 year deal), no Tallet, no Millar type players, no "veteran" players with no business being on this team taking away chances from our future players. Our bench people should be young guys, we have enough veterans already in our lineup. So I'd like to see people like Mastriano, Emaus and others be our utility guys if needed.

I think bringing back Tallet was a fine move this season, he just hasn't pitched well. While the team right now has a multitude of options at starter, this year could have turned out very differently. Marcum and Litsch were returning from surgery and Morrow was transitioning from the bullpen to a starting role. Mills was injured last year and Cecil and Rzepczynski came with all the usual question marks about consistency and adjustment for young pitchers. Don't forget, the team began the year with Dana Eveland and Tallet in the rotation. I supported bringing Tallet back and I think having a veteran arm you could use as a long man - which was also a good option given the young starting staff - or a starter, if necessary, was wise. It's just that Tallet has been hurt and not pitched particularly well when healthy. Now, this role may not make sense on next year's team, or it may make more sense to give it to Mills or Richmond or Shawn Hill or someone else, but the idea of bringing Tallet back, regardless of how Cito was inclined to use him, made sense.

Also, I have no idea what your issue with John McDonald is (aside from 2 games in left field). He's spent the entire year on the roster and hasn't accumulated 90 plate appearances. He's exactly what you want (or at least can reasonably expect) in an infield reserve: he can play all 3 non-1B infield positions competently, brings a good glove and accepts his role on the team.

I don't think that's fair.  When you say spend money, at that point in the season you presumably mean trading away prospects for established players?  No?  Because there aren't free agents to spend money on at that point?  So do you think trading Travis Snider, Henderson Alvarez, and probably Brett Cecil or something like that for Cliff Lee would've demonstrated a committment by management and presumably push us over the top?  General Mangers don't build championships in May, by the time June rolled around it was clear the team was not going to challenge.  So what exactly are you saying? 

However their handling of Snider is baffling. Since he's come back he has by far the most games off. EE is getting more regular playing time then he is. In the 9 games since he's come back to the team, he's been sat 4 times. In two of them he came in late in the game, once as a PH and once as a replacement after Wells got hurt. So he's playing barely 50% of the time (5/9). EE has been played 8/9, Fred Lewis 5/9 and Bautista 9/9.

I agree that Snider should be playing almost all the time, he is one of their best hitters and I think on the verge of something big. With that being said, Bautista has been the team's best hitter by a mile (and one of the 10 best in the majors this year) and is red hot, so he isn't going to sit, and the only other third baseman on the roster is Johnny Mac... Bautista has played 3rd twice in the last two months and at this point it seems clear that they aren't going to move him there fulltime, at least for this season.

I think the issue is that the guys that are going to play LF, 1B, DH - Snider, Lewis, Overbay, Lind - are all lefthanded, and they all hit lefties much worse than righties so there is no natural platoon. If it were me I would start Snider against lefties and sit Lewis, and then rotate the 4 through the 3 positions against righties, but this is easier said than done.  

Oh and Dewayne Wise has 61 PA in exactly 2 calendar months with the team - of the 50 odd games he has started 11... it's more than ideal but given that Snider missed a bunch of time and I believe Lewis also missed a few, I really don't have a problem with this.

Money lost on AJ spent elsewhere?  On who?  CC Sabathia?  Mark Texiara?  Frankie Rodriguez?  Do you think any of those would come to Toronto for more money than they received?  If I recall, CC signed with New York before AJ.  I guess you could say the Jays should've then made a run at Derek Lowe or Ryan Dempster, but Dempster didn't want to leave and he's had significant injury issues and I don't see Derek Lowe coming to the Jays once AJ left.  In fact I don't see any of these players coming to the Jays once AJ leaves. 

I doubt many would disagree with not having JPA as catcher on Sunday, especially given the results. But even before that we know Molina is Morrow's personal catcher.

With Morrow pitching Sunday and Monday as an off day, there was no reason Arencibia couldn't have caught Friday night and Saturday afternoon. There's nothing in the rule books against a catcher playing the day game after a night game, especially with 2 days of rest right after.

I think it's fair to say Rogers have made a "committment to winning."  Vernon was signed to a monster contract, AJ, BJ, Halladay re-upped. Nobody in their right mind expects them to spend like the Yankees or Red Sox and for them to have done that at any point in the last three or four years would have been foolish.

Those things all happened in 2006, and we're at least 3.5+ seasons from each of them. I'd like to think I'm in my right mind and I definitely expect them to spend like the Red Sox because there's no reason why they can't. The GTA is significantly larger than the GBA, and the Red Sox have been getting what they pay for in terms of success. The Blue Jays can't sit back and twiddle their thumbs claiming poor attendance is the reason for slashed payrolls - you need to spend first and win and then the crowds come, not the other way around. There's no excuse for the Blue Jays cutting their on-field opening day payroll nearly 40% over the last 2 years - when you consider inflation and the exchange rate Rogers is spending CONSIDERABLY less this year on the team than they did in 2006.

I don't have the numbers to back this up, but to compare our financial and geographic situation with the Red Sox seems absurd.  The Red Sox sell out every game at pretty expensive ticket prices, the Jays don't come close to their attendance.  The Red Sox are a New England brand so forget about Greater Boston, they're a staple in American society. 

I agree with cutting payroll, the team was not competing, nor were they close to competing and there was no reason to have players making the money they on that team.  Then again, in a couple years if the team is getting close then it's time to open the bank. 

"The point comes down to though is that Cito doesn't like young guys. He prefers to not play them given the chance. His interviews say this, his lineups say this, the way he handles relievers/players say this. Maybe it is a holdover from his playing days experiences, but I'm 100% certain that Cito will never let a rookie get a full time job if given any other choice."

And another horse is beaten to death with CDS.....

Tallet       W  L    ERA    GS   IP     H   R  ER  HR  BB IBB  SO  HBP  WP  BF   WHIP   SO/9   SO/BB
as Starter   1  2    5.60    5   27.1  27  19  17   7  10   0  19    1   0  122  1.354   6.3   1.90

Eveland      W  L    ERA    GS   IP     H   R  ER  HR  BB IBB  SO  HBP  WP  BF   WHIP    SO/9  SO/BB
as Starter   3  5    6.34   10   49.2  63  38  35   4  29   1  21    3   4  235  1.852   3.8    0.7

At the risk of feeding the beast even more, I think it's important that we draw a distinction between moves that the GM has control over and the Manager has control over. I'm sure there is significant discussion and overlap, but for the most part the GM sets the roster and the Manager uses it. I don't get complaints about McDonald or Tallet playing; they are on the roster, they have to play occasionally. I personally make my assessment of the Manager over how well he utilizes his available resources, and on that count I am generally happy with Cito. I think that basically Cito makes a decision (like batting lineup) goes with it for a reasonable period of time, and then makes a change if he doesn't think its working. I would rather this reasoned approach than changing the lineup every 4 days, which would be nonsensical. As for pitchers like Tallet, if you are going to be upset about this kind of stuff then I basically don't see how you can ever be satisfied watching baseball. In terms of Leverage Index the team's relievers go like this: Gregg (2.01), Downs (1.50), Frasor (1.24), Camp (1.12), Tallet (0.65), Purcey (0.46), Janssen (0.45). He basically plays in non-close situations only, and this difference between him and Purcey is not large given they have 15 and 22 appearances respectively, a combined total fewer than any of those front 4 guys.  

Lastly, I don't know where all this Cito screwing over young guys talk is coming from. The only particularly young/non-established players that have come up under Cito have been Snider and Lind, sort of. Lind struggled at various times and Cito stuck with him and made him the DH and number 5 hitter. Snider has admittedly bounced around a bit, but has also struggled and been injured at various times. He hasn't been benched or sent down. I don't really have a problem with young players breaking into the lineup hitting 8th or 9th, given the reasonable strength of our lineup and presumably lesser pressure that comes with hitting later.

If you are pining for Dana Eveland then, well, I don't even know what to say.