I didn't think Morrow pitched that bad. That is a great Yankee's lineup and to hold them under 5 runs is decent. I would have liked to see him get out of the 6th but it worked out in the end. He can definatly do better though.

Im curious to know what the conversation between Morrow and Cito was. Morrow didn't even look at Cito while he was talking too him on the bench.

Dustin Moseley? I thought the Yanks had an incredible rotation. Advantage: Toronto.

Mr. Rutt, don't you know NUTHIN 'bout jinxing a guy? I hereby foresee a six-hit shutout complete game for young Moseley, who some confused teevee or radio guy will undoubtedly call "Lloyd."

is a great Yankee's lineup and to hold them under 5 runs is decent.

The Yankees score 5.4 runs per game. Allowing them to score 5 runs in 5.1 innings is not going to earn anyone a merit badge.

Screw Shawn Green. He's the only one of all our homegrown "stars" to really beg out of the city. AJ was just a merc in the first place so there's no hard feelings there.

Green screwed us, and I was never happier to see a player's career peter out so quickly, a couple of great years after he left but mostly remembered as an albatross contract and likely 'roid baby. 

And I am especially glad I had the chance to tell him that face to face at the LAX airport.

I have to agree with you uglyone, regarding Shawn Green  and he shamelessly used his religion to get out of TO.

What was his reaction to your rant?

His reaction? He tried to give me the puppy dog eyes and tell me how much he loved Toronto...but I just shook my head in disgust.

I personally take credit for Green's first-year struggles in LA now, every time I tell the story. I think I rattled him good.

• During the 7-run inning, the pained looks on the Yanks out on the field was priceless... I could imagine thought bubbles over their heads indicating many censorable words.
• As bad (and good) as Brandon Morrow has been, only once did I get really frustrated watching him pitch this season, and it was early on.  Burnett on the other hand was always a 50-50 proposition.  Morrow has already shown more ability to learn, improve and execute this season, than Burnett has in several years.  I'd take Morrow over Burnett even money.  Burnett always gave me the impression he was being insincere in some way...
• Both Morrow and Burnett were squeezed and affected by a really inconsistent strike zone.  Possibly the worst called game I've seen in a while.  Cito might have been talking to Morrow about how he has to manage that better... but it's tough to hear when you KNOW you've been robbed.  Purcey really benefited from a ball called strike (on Kearns I believe), otherwise that inning could have turned ugly.  Seemed like the ump would call breaking balls and low fastballs for strikes, but was blind to belt-high pitches right on the edges.
• I wonder how many Yanks fans were wondering why they couldn't get Bautista instead of Kearns or Bagwell (though I think Bagwell is going to be big for them this year - imagine if Bagwell hits the walk-off dinger to knock the Red Sox out of the wild-card battle)
• Bagwell, Kearns, and Wood added at the trade deadline, really?  As pinch-hitters, platoon at best, and as a set-up man?  For many teams, this would be a HUGE winter of free agent signings, adding a #4 and #5 hitter, and an experienced closer!  Something is really wrong when this happens and nobody blinks an eye.
• I think Cito is going to do a good job of mixing in rookie at-bats with the veterans... his future is already assured and his legacy isn't going to change with a few more games won / lost this season.  My concern is that we haven't had a good history with the last few coaches in-between Cito teams... what are the candidates that we'd be interested in?
• Snyder seemed to adjust well to his 9th-inning Cleveland disappointment (fanned on 3 hard fastballs) by taking those the opposite way for doubles.  I hope he continues to make those adjustments, bc that will be the difference between average player and star.
• Man is our lineup potent now!  Lewis, Escobar, Buck have been great additions.
• Finally - what if, just what if the Jays had hung on to Halladay this season, and he was say 11-5 now (conservative with the run support this year).  Would we be having very different discussions these days?

If the front office counts, enemy number one would be Gord Ash (of course, not personally). That guy took over back to back World Series winners. Then think about what JP took over when he came in.

Perhaps I am the only one without a personal hate on for Burnett other than that he plays for NY or Bos. I feel more like that to Rios. I really hated Delgado for about 3 seasons or so until he started breaking down. Really hated Carpenter. The first Alex Gonzalez,  Kelvin Escobar, BJ Ryan.

I was more annoyed with Shawn Green.

Shawn Green... What an ugly remark.

I certainly disagree - As I remember, Shawn Green let it be known through the press that he wanted to go to

LA because he was interested in getting more deeply involved in his Jewish roots - Well, Toronto has a fine

Jewish community and he could have explored it here (he may also have mentioned his family). So, I don't

apologise for making that remark and I have absolutely no respect for Shawn Green. 

I am late catching up to the trade deadline analysis but here are some perspectives on the deadline, a couple of which I haven't seen discussed.

One: This is AA's first trade deadline and there might have been some "let's test the rookie" going on.  Trades are a game of chicken in many ways and the other GM's might have expected AA to cave with the Jays out of contention and the expectations set by AA that the Jays were going to rebuild the farm system.  By not caving now AA is developing a reputation that should help him set expectations for future deals.

Two: As we have analysed here, the Jays have close to a league average player at each position and have minor league options at every position, with the possible exception of third base.  The Jays don't need another mid-level AAA or AA prospect, they need impact players.  It is easier for a team to get to league average than it is to add marginal wins to an average team.  The Jays are trying to add marginal wins and to do that they need above average players.  If all you are offered is average prospects then why do the deal?  I think this is what AA has been trying to say.

Third: In one of his radio interviews AA mentioned that they have major league performance by position detailed in their offices.  Each player has to be evaluated in the context of position.  He mentioned that the average for a 1B was about 26 home runs and an 800 OPS.  The centre field averages were much lower.  Although he didn't come out and say it he implied that Wallace would be hard pushed to be league average while Gose had a chance to be above average.

China Fan:

You could be right, we are all reading into it the way we see it.

ps I am waiting for Magpie to give us some more Yankee fan comments

Many contending teams were desperate for pitching.  With that surplus, and that large number of desperate buyers, I think Anthopolous should have been able to do something -- and I mean something more than the equivalent of a sandwich pick in the draft -- especially since those draft picks are far from guaranteed.  There are many scenarios in which the Jays will get less than a sandwich pick for Downs, Frasor, Gregg etc.

It's hard to know what's out there, so I personally don't try to speculate, but the going rate for bullpen help was pretty mixed. Kerry Wood was acquired for cash and a PTBNL, Qualls went for a PTBNL, Will Ohman for Rick Vanden Hurk, the Dodgers sent out James McDonald and a minor leaguer for Octavio Dotel, and the Giants got a couple of guys for flotsam. To be fair, the Nats got Wilson Ramos for Matt Capps, who I would have traded any of our relievers for straight up (Ramos, not Capps), but the organization is pretty strong in catching prospects.

It seems like Brett Wallace may have been the best prospect traded, so I can't beat up on AA too much for holding on to his guys, though I am skeptical that arbitration will be offered and declined successfully for all the guys that are free agents to be.

I don't get this....who would sit for Lowell?? as per www.rotoworld.com

I would have taken James MacDonald for our relievers too but, like Capps, Dotel is probably more valuable than any of our guys.  I'm content with standing pat given what was being thrown around.    The non-waiver could still be interesting, but if not then we'll have to wait till the offseason to see how this plays out. 

I have posted a couple of things, but for all intents and purposes I'm a rook. (and reviewing this post, apparently long winded).

I suppose that the fantastic performance that the team has put on the last  two nights has gotten me dreaming, and although the other side of my brain is groaning, I like Mike Green's comment from a bit back - 10.5 games out on August 3rd - doable.  Furthermore, it seems clear to most here that Cito and company are intent on winning as many games as possible instead of treating the final 7-8 weeks as a sort of 2011 try-out camp (an approach that as a fan I completely endorse - if giving some kids a bit of MLB playing time means that I enjoy even one fewer game like last nights, then I say they can stay in the desert).

However - one piece of the MLB team right now gives me pause and stands in the way of my 10 game winning streak dreams:  Jesse Litsch.   I'll admit that I've never really been a Jesse Litsch fan, but it seems to me that I haven't seen a good outing from him in his current stint with the big team (one game score since the beginning of July greater than 50, and only three overall this year).  Cito definitely doesn't seem impressed with him, but given the youth and inning limits for this staff, is there any way that they could send him down?

More importantly, if the miracle Jays were to pull off a stretch run (let me dream) or any sort of competative streak through to the end of the season - heck, regardless of how they play - what is their rotation going to look like?  How will they manage their starters now that the inning limits are not just numbers in the distance, but dead ends quickly approaching?

My attempt at answering this goes as follows: 

Entering todays matinee the Jays have 55 games remaining (not including playoffs... but.. um, we won't worry about that). How many of these 55 can the four Jays starters other than Litsch handle? (Please help me here if I make any errors, as I couldn't find the early season discussion that outlined specific inning limit projections)

Marcum: 2009 - 0 IP,  2008 - 151 IP    -    I'm assuming that Marcum can go somewher like 160 - 170 but that the Jays won't risk too much on his arm this year.  Lets say 160.  Since he sits at 125 now, that leaves him 35 more, so 5 starts.

Romero: 2009 - 178 IP - I am assuming here that he can go to the end of the season which would take him to around 220 - 11 starts.

Morrow: 2009 - 69.2 (MLB) + 55 (AAA) - 124.2 IP -  If he can go to 160 (currently 118) that gives him another 42 innings - 6 starts.

Cecil: 2009 - 93.1 (MLB) + 49 (AAA) - 142.1 IP - If he can go to 170 (currently 112.1) that gives him another 57 innings - 8 starts.

That gives us 30 starts from the starters that we're all comfortable trotting out there every fifth day.  Where to the other 25 come from? Personally I would rather have Zep or Mills up here to Litsch. 

Zep: 2009 - 149 IP (MLB + AAA) - Currently he's at 73 IP combined between MLB and AAA, so he's pretty much good to go the rest of the way.  So, if he came up now... 11 starts.

Mills: 2009 - 92 IP (MLB + AAA)  - Currently he's at 103.1 IP, and could maybe go to 140 (? Help here!), so perhaps another 5 starts.

Litsch: ugh.  As many as we can stomach.

That still leaves 9 starts unaccounted for, so maybe Litsch has to take the mound a few more times for us.  The only other options that I see involve another AAA starter (Broadway?  Ray? Perez?  I think that I'd probably take Litsch over any of these guys), a callup from one of the AA kids (not likely - they're coming up to their limits), or a few starts for mutton chops.  None of these are desireable options.

Another question that I have is how would we make this scenario work?  I mean, the idea that Mills and Morrow would be our #3 Starter for the rest of the season relies on one of them not pitching until the other has completed their half of the remaining season, which obviously won't happen.  So I guess we have to take a guy like Mills out of the equation.  That means that in September, if all of my guess work is right, we'll have a rotation of Romero, Zep, Litsch, and Cecil (for a bit).  What happens then?

In another thread John Northey posted: "Makes one wonder if it would be worthwhile to go to a 6 man rotation and have guys go deeper into games. If more rest = more effective then it could be a big asset for the team going forward."

This would help us a bit to work Mills into the lineup while keeping Litsch/Zep as our #5.  We'd still be looking to fill starts at the end of September.

D King:

I agree that Cito is not a big fan of Litsch and if the Jays were to trade a starter in the off-season Litsch might be the prime candidate.  But his value is lower right now as he works his way back.  Remember he is coming back from TJ surgery.  That can take time.  Marcum pitched a bit in 2009 and had the off-season to recover, Litsch is right back in there.

There is another way to look at your pitching puzzle.  You can't call Zep up now unless you drop someone from the roster.  So look at it this way.  The Jays have enough starts from their starters to get through August.  Rosters expand in September.  You need three extra starters in September.  Zep and Mills are two.  Shawn Hill, who is pitching well for New Hampshire today could be number 3.  Or Bobby Ray, or Rommie Lewis, or some other pitcher.  This is a September problem.

You can't call Zep up now unless you drop someone from the roster. 

Is Litsch out of options? 

Is Litsch out of options? 

I thought you were trying to get enough starts for the starters, that was the reason for my comment.  If you want to argue that Zep is a better pitcher than Litsch that is another discussion.  Just remember that Zep, like Litsch, doesn't go deep into games and tends to get pulled in the sixth or early seventh.  Zep and Litsch have some similarities like that.  I haven't seen enough of Zep this year to see how good his new change-up is but he was playing with fire and dodging bullets a lot of last year too.

2010 is a much better time for figuring out if he has a future as a starting pitcher than 2011 will be. 

If you want to argue that Zep is a better pitcher than Litsch that is another discussion. 

I was advocating this switch, mostly out of frustration from the past couple of starts.  I don't have any specific reason to think that Zep would be an improvement (though his ERA since the all star break is 2.03 right now, so he could simply be hotter right now - not enough of a reason).  I see the argument in giving him some time to work things out and get into a groove - especially if he is seen as a potential trading piece.