Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

The Toronto Blue Jays were rained out in Detroit Friday night so that game will be made up as part of a doubleheader Sunday with game times of 1:05 and 6:05 in the post meridian. We look west for our topic of the night where emotions ran a little high in the Mariners dugout during their 2-1 loss to Boston at Safeco Field.

It's been that kind of season in Seattle. Junior falls asleep and retires, they trade Cliff Lee and the immortal Jack Hannahan and if that's not enough, Erik Bedard will more than likely not throw another pitch this season because of continued shoulder woes. The movie "Major League" was on Movie Time last night. Why couldn't Wakamatsu pull a Lou Brown and tell Figgins something like "Nice play, Figgins! Don't ever bleepin' do it again!" See? Problem solved.

Unfortunately, this week marked the passing of James Gammon, who portrayed Lou Brown in that classic movie. He died at the age 70. Any good baseball fan worth his or her salt always quotes a number of his lines in the movie. I've gotten into the nasty habit of saying "Shut-up, Dorn!" when the missus or anyone else gets on my nerves. It's amazing I'm still alive! Anyways, who could ever forget his watering of Dorn's contract? I also loved his response to the offer of managing the Indians, "I don't know.....lemme think it over, will ya, Charlie. I got a guy on the other line about some whitewalls. I'll talk to ya later."

His speech before the season opener was also classic..........

I'm not much for inspirational addresses. I just wanta point out that every newspaper in the country has picked us to finish last. The local press thinks we'd save everybody a lot of time and trouble if we just went out and shot ourselves. Me, I like to waste sportswriters' time so I'm for hangin' around and seein' if we can give all these guys a nice big *bleep*burger to eat.

It was between James Gammon and Bob Uecker for the best lines in that movie. Rest in peace, Lou Brown!

In other baseball-type happenings....

Doc was Doc. What else is new?
Mark Buehrle finally wins a game in Oakland.
The Rockies are reportedly interested in Kevin Gregg and Scott Downs.
Buffalo and the New York Mets have signed another two-year player development contract. Just my take but unless Rochester decides to dump the Twins, the Jays look to be stuck with Las Vegas and the Pacific Coast League until the end of the 2012 campaign.

Tonight, it's Shaun Marcum (8-4, 3.36) against Rick Porcello (4-7, 5.63) at Comerica Park. First pitch is set for 7:05 p.m.

Posted by #2JBrumfield on Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 10:52 AM EDT.

Talking Base Brawl! | 62 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.

85bluejay - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 11:30 AM EDT (#219049) #

Apparently things have become tense apart from the losing because players are upset with the way Ken Griffey was

let go - feel that manager Waka. forced him out - much like the B.J. Ryan & Cito episode from last yr. caused a

similar rebellion in Toronto - I guess how a respected veteran is let go is a bigger deal in the clubhouse than

most fans may realise - perhaps the GM should take the bad cop role and take the heat off the Manager when a

popular veteran is released.

Flex - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 02:25 PM EDT (#219053) #

So here's a question. Newsweek's Ken Davidoff tweets that the Jays had scouts at the Royals-Yankees game yesterday, and mentions this in the context of the Jays making relief pitchers available.

That suggests the Jays are looking to trade for someone currently on the Yankees major-league roster, and looking at the box score the only names that seem at all conceivable to be included in a trade are reliever Jonathan Albaladejo and 1B Juan Miranda, both of whom are 27.

That doesn't make much sense to me, or am I reading this all wrong.

Jdog - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#219054) #

I wouldn't put anything past AA. He could easily have been scouting someone on the Royals like Alex Gordon. Besides the buying/selling between contenders and pretenders i think AA is open to other deals when the trade talk is a little more at the forefront.

I know this isn't the wild trade spec thread but after hearing Grienke is available i can't resist making a wild request.

Trade Drabek and Wallace and a 3rd piece for Grienke. Have no idea if the Royals would want this but i think both are expendable and AA has always talked about winning with stars. Rotation of Greinke, Romero, Marcum, Cecil and Morrow would look good next year. Then you sign an aging Berkman or similar player for 1B and you have a competing team next year. And you got to believe the Jays have the money to add greinke. Ok back to reality.

uglyone - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 03:57 PM EDT (#219055) #

a Greinke move would be brilliant from AA, and the kind of move that wouldn't surprise me from him.

I'd guess it would probably take more to get Greinke than we got for Doc - let's say 4 top young assets instead of 3 - and I'd be more than willing to pay that price.

TamRa - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 06:29 PM EDT (#219059) #

point of order - Gordon is still in AAA isn't he?

Here's another couple of thoughts, re the question though:

1. Alex often uses the phrase "3 way or 4 way" and teams are known to be watching Guillen; it would help our position in such a deal to be familiar with the Royals roster;

2. Scouting the Yanks, if they were, might be nothing more than looking for a "throw in" player with the primary return coming from their system;

3. Not few times the idea has come up that the Yanks might be tiring of Chamberlain and in that case he's the ideal "buy low" sort AA would be interested in.

Jdog - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 06:37 PM EDT (#219060) #

Gordon started in KC yesterday, and again today. I doubt they are scouting him i just mentioned it, as right now with our knowledge anything is possible.

James W - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 08:20 PM EDT (#219063) #

3. Not few times the idea has come up that the Yanks might be tiring of Chamberlain and in that case he's the ideal "buy low" sort AA would be interested in.

Jon Heyman reported that Arizona requested Chamberlain as part of a Dan Haren deal, and the Yankees refuse

Flex - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 09:11 PM EDT (#219064) #

Thanks for the thoughts on AA. Those scenarios do make more sense to me.

Refusing to include Chamberlain in a Dan Haren deal might have more to do with the Yankees not being sold on Dan Haren.

brent - Saturday, July 24 2010 @ 11:30 PM EDT (#219067) #

Anyone else thinking about trying to package Fred Lewis (love him but...) before the deadline or during the offseason. I mean, he's thirty and the Jays should move him while he has some value or before he turns into a pumpkin. I mean, this is basically his peak what we've seen this year.

I love having some speed out on the field. I hope GM AA can keep finding them. Stolen bases, going first to third, beating out an infield hit are all exciting plays.

TamRa - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 01:40 AM EDT (#219068) #

I'd wrote this earlier and lost it but...

I think Alex Gordon is probably the textbook definition of the sort of player Allex A wil ltry hard to acquire and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was working on some way to swindle him out of KC (AA against Dayton Moore at the trade table seems on paper like an almost criminal imbalance of ability)

Kelekin - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 05:20 AM EDT (#219069) #

Brent: 100% yes. He is indeed at his ceiling here. I was hoping Mastroianni would've been moved up to AAA, because I think at -worst- he's Fred Lewis. Less power, but better plate discipline and a million times faster. I just think Mastroianni would be exciting to watch, as it's been a long time since we've had an actual leadoff hitter. At worst he's what, Podsednik? That's still a huge upgrade and one part of our game that we need. The guy has had one bad season in his minor league career, and even in that year he stole 30 bases and was only caught once.

brent - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:33 AM EDT (#219070) #

Since GM AA has so many trade pieces, I wonder if he's thinking about game theory. If he has Downs, Gregg and Frasor available, I wonder if teams are less interested. Maybe he should say he will only move one to limit supply. Next year is supposed to be a deeper draft, so maybe the team should balance returns between another team's minor leaguers and the next draft.

Maybe the opposite is true and GM AA should move the relievers quickly to establish the market. He might undersell a bit, but could be sure of moving all three relievers and leave other sellers holding the bag so to speak.

I would assume the GM would just wait it out until he got a deal he wanted for any reliever and just take the picks if a good enough offer didn't materialize.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

Chuck - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 08:01 AM EDT (#219071) #

Given the fungibility of relief pitchers, I'd say that carpe diem is a sounder strategy than game theory.

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 10:14 AM EDT (#219073) #

Well, Figgins had a +9.6 UZR rating at 3B last year. He can bat lead off. He's probably never going to be worth his salary, but I'd trade Encarnation for him.

Chuck - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 10:18 AM EDT (#219074) #

He's probably never going to be worth his salary, but I'd trade Encarnation for him.

Encarnacion is on the books for just two more months. Figgins would be an albatross for three more years. Why would you knowingly trade for someone whom you concede is not worth his salary? It's not like trading one bad salary for another.

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#219077) #

I have Encarnation eligible for free agency in 2012.

Spifficus - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#219078) #

But his contract runs out after this season, so he can be non-tendered.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 12:49 PM EDT (#219081) #

I think Alex Gordon is probably the textbook definition of the sort of player Allex A wil ltry hard to acquire and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was working on some way to swindle him out of KC (AA against Dayton Moore at the trade table seems on paper like an almost criminal imbalance of ability)

Is it possible to swindle someone when you're trading for a player that isn't....well....good?

What kind of price do you think would be a "swindle" for a 26 year old crapped out prospect?

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 01:03 PM EDT (#219083) #

Figgins wouldnt be high on most peoples list - but Encarnacion.???

I would trade Encarnacion for a couple hot dogs and a bag of popcorn.

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 01:27 PM EDT (#219086) #

Figgins is having a poor year following 2 career year. He has a relatively big contract. He's a risk and the rebuilding Mariners should try to move him. He's close to a straight salary dump.

In other news, several moves in Detroit. Billy Buckner has been released and Casey Fien has been designated for assignement. Both have potential as relievers.

Chuck - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 01:39 PM EDT (#219087) #

Figgins wouldnt be high on most peoples list - but Encarnacion.???
I would trade Encarnacion for a couple hot dogs and a bag of popcorn.

Encarnacion and Figgins are apples and oranges.

Encarnacion will be a Blue Jay for two more months. He will then be non-tendered and will be a Blue Jay no more. He has no trade value. No one is disputing this. But he will be off the books in a very short time.

Figgins has $26M coming to him for his age 33, 34 and 35 seasons. He has a vesting option of $9M for his age 36 season. His OPS+ the last three seasons, including the current one: age 30: 82; age 31: 108, age 32: 67. The Mariners are presumably suffering from some serious buyer's remorse and would, I imagine, give Figgins away to anyone who would be willing to simply assume the contract, just like the Blue Jays gave Rios away last year. I'm sure they would enjoy a mulligan and spend that Figgins money some other way.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:22 PM EDT (#219090) #

The hate-on for EE is quite fascinating.

He's been a well above average third baseman this season by any measure.

It's quite amazing that people drool over a guy like Gordon, who is about the same age and has been a much lesser MLBer.

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#219091) #

Chuck,

What I dont understand is why - at this point - is he still on the field?

Give someone a chance - the season is toast anyway.

Give Emaus a chance - or the ball boy - anyone really.

Let someone get their feet wet.

I just dont understand why that guy is still on the field.

Alex Obal - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#219092) #

Encarnacion is on a roll with the bat and the glove. Can't take him out now.

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:29 PM EDT (#219093) #

Uglyone - what is with the hate thing?
Why inject emotion into the conversation? What is that angle all about?

And Gordon - is that a diversionary tactic? I didnt say anything about Gordon.

Bottom line - Encarnacion stinks.

What is the point of playing this guy?

Why not start building on the future? Why not have some vision?

Watching this team play is like watching paint dry.

Hopefully - AA will pump up the volume - and get this party started - because right now - it is just plain boring and ugly.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#219095) #

ok, I'll bite - if it's not "hate" - then give me your logical explanation as to why EE "stinks".

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#219096) #

And I wont bite.

I'll pass on your requesrt. Respectfully.

jerjapan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:41 PM EDT (#219097) #

I'm with Uglyone one this ... EE has shown some significant improvement since the demotion, adding about 50 points to his BA and 20 each to his OBP and SLG. He's currently on an 8-game hitting streak and is apparently working hard on his defense - he just turned a nice DP in today's game. He's 27, and the venerated Brian Butterfield has claimed he has the tools to be a solid defensive 3B (I know coaches are best-case scenario types, but still). He doesn't make crazy money and we can afford the contract ... so why dump him now? If he finishes the year strong, we have another option for next year. Bautista is good in RF, not as good at 3B - leave him there.

IF a minor leaguer forces his way past EE, fine, but don't just hand someone the job. And exactly which hot prospect is banging down the door - 25 year old AA waiver claim Shawn Bowman? Converted 2B Emaus, struggling defensively himself at 3B?

AA is about maximizing resources - Call me naive but EE might still be an asset.

Chuck - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:43 PM EDT (#219098) #

Bottom line - Encarnacion stinks.

Your argument seems far more emotional than rational. Yes, his defense is an issue but the errors have been under control as of late. And his OPS+ is 111. That hardly qualifies as "stinks". Would that Hill and Lind were stinking so poorly.

It is true that Encarnacion is not in the team's future. One presume that Snider, who should regain his fulltime starter status no later than August 1, will cut into Encarnacion's playing time, with Bautista moving back third base.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#219099) #

I still think Snider's return should mean Overbay moving to the bench (or traded), not EE.

If there is a player that is most clearly not in the Jay's future, it's 33 year old Lyle.

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#219100) #

What does Lyle have to do with this?
Its no great revelation that he is not in the teams future.

But who is?

Do you really think that a team that doesnt get on base has a chance in the AL East - or any other division for that matter?

Do you think you have a chance when your best hitter is a career .235 guy that bangs some homeruns?

Do you think you have a chance when your "marquee" guy -- making $ 160,000 per game - will hit .250 and struggle to get 80 RBI's?

After 50 years - Maybe I just don't understand the game - and I need to learn how winning teams get it done.
I am open to learning new things.

I do know this though - this team is lifeless.

I hope AA shocks everyone and bites the bullet - clears the deck - and starts building for the future.
Some vision - and a dedication to getting away from the current Beer League Softball strategy.

I think AA will do it- because it is -simply put - ugly right now.

I am confident of the future with AA - and painfully aware of the present.

He has an enormous amount of work to do. All IMO.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#219102) #

Hmm.

The team is one of the youngest and cheapest teams in the league, and is more than holding their own this year. They've had an absolutely massive infusion of young talent over the past year, and have one of the best minor league systems in baseball.

They're heading into a trade deadline where they not only have more trade chips than any other team in baseball to add even more young talent, but also have a number of quality youngsters who can immediately come in and fill the holes left from any trades.

Pretty exciting time to be a Jays fan, imo.

China fan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#219103) #

Encarnacion has been dramatically improved, both defensively and offensively, since his demotion. Today he turned several good plays at 3B and beat out an infield hit with some good hustle. Here is something else to appreciate about Anthopolous: his handling of a talented 3B who was significantly underperforming in the first half of the season. AA demoted him, made it clear to him that he did not have a guaranteed job on the Jays, and also demonstrated that he wasn't guaranteed a job elsewhere in the major leagues either (since he passed through waivers unclaimed). It was a smart move that woke up Encarnacion and finally got him to play to his potential.

Encarnacion's biggest fan, uglyone, claimed at the time that AA was "admitting his mistake" when he recalled EE. In retrospect, that interpretation looks even more absurd than it did at the time. Anthopolous handled it perfectly. He had a problem on his hands -- an under-performing 3B who wasn't hustling and wasn't hitting -- and he couldn't justify keeping him on the major-league roster. He demoted him, offered him to other teams, and then took a gamble that EE would finally get the message. It was a reasonable tactic, and -- so far -- it has worked.

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#219104) #

Uglyone - all of that is good.

But it only matters if you - ultimately - use it.

I am confident that AA will use it in the future. I think he is a very good baseball mind and I am thrilled that the Blue Jays have him.

I am also very certain that the current cast of characters will win nothing.

China - agree - AA did the best - and only - thing he could do with Encarnacion.
Not that it means much - but at least he made the best of a bad situation.

AA needs to clear the deck - and get the party started. IMO

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#219106) #

I am not one to say I told you so.. But since you keep wanting to bring up this personal issue you have with me, and keep laughably trying to claim that you were right when with every game we see that you were wrong, then you are forcing me to say "I told you so" against my wishes. So I have no choice but to say: I told you so. Sorry - you forced it on me.

You trying to quite hilariously twist this into an argument that EE playing well actually makes ME look wrong, is literally painful to watch. Just stop bringing it up already.

Of course, any GM can look like a genius by sending a player down when they're in the middle of a slump, only to see them "magically" improve when they return.

China fan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:34 PM EDT (#219109) #

So EE was merely "in the middle of a slump"? If so, the slump had lasted for a season and a half. He hadn't performed to his potential since 2008. Why are you unable to give any credit to AA on this? He found a way to turn EE into a useful 3B -- for now anyway. Good move. Anyone else would give credit to AA but you seem unable to do so.

Since you're such a big fan of EE, please explain again why the Jays don't want him back for 2011 and nobody else is bothering to trade for him or even to put in a waiver claim for him. HIs name doesn't even pop up in the trade rumors. Nobody wants him. The Jays have managed to improve him into a 3B who is better (for now) than Brad Emaus or Shawn Bowman. And this is why you are gloating?

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:36 PM EDT (#219110) #

Uglyone,

Encarnacion isnt very good.

Simple as that.

Its time for him to go bye bye.

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#219111) #

I'm bothered by the "clear the deck" comments. The only way to build is incrementally and I miss Alex Rios.

I love the Escobar deal, but they need a lead off hitter and Snider need to be in the lineup and in the outfield.

Don't be fooled by Bautista batting average. The numbers that matters are OBP and SLG.

The error the Jays have made is to try to get their young talents into long term contracts. I say keep them year to year--unless one becomes a Cy Young winner or a league MVP. Is Doc the only player on a long term contract that has not declined?

From today's game, Camp keep struggling in the setup role and cost Cecil the win.

uglyone - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 03:51 PM EDT (#219112) #

So EE was merely "in the middle of a slump"? If so, the slump had lasted for a season and a half. He hadn't performed to his potential since 2008. Why are you unable to give any credit to AA on this? He found a way to turn EE into a useful 3B -- for now anyway. Good move. Anyone else would give credit to AA but you seem unable to do so.

EE had a .765ops when he was sent down. And was only that low because he had been in a bad slump for about two weeks - before that, he was well over .800ops.

If EE deserved to be sent down then, and AA was such a genius for doing it - when does Hill's wake up call come? When does he get sent down?

How can I give AA credit when EE is just hitting like he always has his whole career?

TamRa - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#219115) #

I still think Snider's return should mean Overbay moving to the bench (or traded), not EE.

If I'm not mistaken, overbay has the second highest OPS on the team since he came out of his early season troubles on May 7.

I get defending EE - I even get an argument for giving Overbay's at-bats vs. LHP to someone else.

But benching him is NOT goingto happen nor should it. if we really want to play EE every day then a trade is in order, not a benching which would suck what marginal value he has on the trade market (low not because he sucks but because there's not a lot of demand for 1B out there) right up.

Chuck - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 04:41 PM EDT (#219116) #

Encarnacion isnt very good. Simple as that.

I think you will find that at this site, positions that are not actually defended will fall on deaf ears, this response notwithstanding. If you have a rational argument for your position, present it and subject it to scrutiny. The type of "argument" you have presented here smacks more of trollery than of honest desire to engage in debate.

jerjapan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 05:23 PM EDT (#219118) #

Re: playing time.

I recall (not sure exactly where) AA suggesting rotating players. I assume when Snider comes back, 7 players will rotate through 6 spots - Lewis, Wells, Snider, Lind, Bautista, EE and Overbay. Lind plays 1B when Overbay sits, Bautista 3B when EE is out ... and maybe CF for Wells?

Mike Green - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#219121) #

According to a Rutsey article yesterday, the club is considering running 6 players through 5 positions when Snider returns. Those would be Snider, Bautista, Lewis, Encarnacion, Lind, Overbay. So for instance, with a left-handed starter going for the opposition, you might rest Lewis and run out a Bautista, Wells, Snider outfield. The next day with a right-handed starter going, you might run out a Lewis, Wells, Snider outfield with Bautista at third.

I don't know that this arrangement would suit Gaston's managing style.

Flex - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 05:54 PM EDT (#219122) #

bball12, sorry, the more you foam, the more you prove the point of those you're arguing against.

You sound like the belligerent guy at the bar that everybody wishes would just pass out already.

Alex Obal - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#219123) #

The Game 1 boxscore provides a nice illustration of how WPA works.

jogumon - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:08 PM EDT (#219124) #

Do the WPA values take into account the quality of the teams playing, or are they generic based on the game situation?

jerjapan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:13 PM EDT (#219125) #

Thanks for the link Alex. Interesting box score - Escobar gets 2 hits and still scores a (barely) negative WPA.

bball12 - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#219126) #

Flex,

What's with the constant personal attacks on this site?

Seems very childish to me.

Mike Green - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#219127) #

The WPA is generic. It does not attempt to measure the effects of the environment or the opposition on leverage. Downs' leverage index was over 4 for the game; Gregg's was just over 1. Other times it will be reversed. For the season, Gregg's LI is over 2, while Downs is 1.5. This is, of course, sub-optimal.

Alex Obal - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#219128) #

Do the WPA values take into account the quality of the teams playing, or are they generic based on the game situation?

Generic. You could argue that that's a flaw in this system. It assumes that each team starts with a 50% chance of winning, and then proceeds from there based on run expectancy tables.

It's possible to come up with models that factor in more and more stuff - like, which teams and players are playing, and in which ballpark, and the weather (if it's colder out or the wind's blowing in each run is worth more, right?). That would be complicated, though, and I doubt you'd gain much from it. Over a 162-game season the strength of opposition basically represents the schedule you actually faced to the point where you can just adjust for that mentally.

The big problem with this WPA model, I think, is that it doesn't account for defense. Right now, all credit and blame for runs goes to the pitcher, even if there are errors or amazing plays.

Spifficus - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:33 PM EDT (#219129) #

Haren to the Angels... Didn't see that one happening, especially for Saunders +++.

Alex Obal - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 07:47 PM EDT (#219130) #

Whenever Saunders' name came up in trade rumors, I just assumed he was just a placeholder who neither team valued that highly. ("Well, it always hurts to give up a player of this calibre, but we're getting a perennial 16-game winner in return...") Maybe I was wrong. I think this is a great trade for the Angels, unless there's something seriously wrong with Haren beyond hit luck.

James W - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 08:19 PM EDT (#219131) #

I think Haren's just having an unlucky year so far. His HR/FB rate is a couple percentage points higher his career rate. His BABIP is about 50 points higher than career rate. He's T4th in the majors in strikeouts (141, 6 behind Weaver.) If Haren has a outstanding couple of months, I would not be very surprised at all.

Magpie - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 08:57 PM EDT (#219134) #

Encarnacion isnt very good. Simple as that.

That's about as helpful as saying he isn't very handsome. But context is everything. Compared to Mike Schmidt and Eddie Matthews and George Brett... Encarnacion isn't very good.

Compared to the options available to the 2010 Blue Jays, he's something else.

Moving on. Frasor does not provide a very convincing rebuttal to Ricciardi's comments, does he?

Mike Green - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 09:08 PM EDT (#219137) #

Magpie, the data shows that Frasor does very well in low leverage and high leverage situations. Putting him in with a 2 run lead and a runner on in the 8th inning is asking for trouble. :)

Give him that 4 run lead and let him throw 3 innings. Victory would have been assured!

Magpie - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#219140) #

I must admit the even I, who have for years and years regarded Frasor as my Personal Whipping Boy, would have called on him in that situation. Downs, Camp, and Gregg were not available - the alternatives were Janssen and Purcey.

China fan - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#219143) #

Since Frasor had pitched an inning and a third yesterday, I personally would have preferred to see Purcey or Janssen in the 8th inning today. Purcey and Janssen are likely to be with the Jays next year -- and Frasor is much less likely -- so I would think it is time to see how those two can perform in high-leverage situations. Purcey, in particular, has been extremely impressive recently -- he hasn't allowed a run in his past 6 games and his ERA stands at 1.86. Why not give him a chance? On the other hand, Frasor has also been much better lately and hadn't allowed a run in his past 6 outings. So I can see a plausible rationale for Frasor. But still, I think I would have gone with Purcey or Janssen in the 8th inning, and maybe saved Frasor to tackle a batter or two in the 9th -- ideally with nobody on base....

greenfrog - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 09:45 PM EDT (#219144) #

And with all those scouts in attendance too. Sigh...at least they got to see strong performances from Bautista, Buck, Overbay, Downs, Gregg...

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 10:04 PM EDT (#219145) #

Janssen is as good--or as bad--in any leverage situation.

No idea about Purcey.

Frasor threw more than 1.1 inning once this year and yielded 2 runs in a 2 inning outing.

Kasi - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#219146) #

I think the point is that Tallet should not have been out there for the 8th. Personally I trust him the least of any of the relievers and feel he's only suited for mop up duty and blowouts.

scottt - Sunday, July 25 2010 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#219148) #

Tallet used to have reverse splits. This made him an ideal spot starter. This year he has pronounced regular splits. The Jays have lots of lefties in both the pen and rotation so he's not worth much as a LOOGY.

Talking Base Brawl! | 62 comments | Create New Account

The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.