Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine

We all know that prospect development in baseball is an uncertain and rocky process.  First round picks flame out and never make it to the major leagues.  Twentieth round picks or similar undrafted longshots do make it from time to time.  There is a saying in baseball development that in any year one third of your prospects will improve, one third will fall back and one third will stagnate. 

Last year was not a good one for the Blue Jays under this measure.  Approx one half of Jays prospects fell back last season while only about one sixth jumped ahead.  That might be why the Jays now have a new farm director and a new scouting director, not to mention a new GM.

So how are the Jays prospects doing in 2010?  Let's start with the Jays top 30 prospects for 2009, as selected by Batters Box.  We will also include the players obtained in the Halladay trade. 



1. Zach Stewart - unchanged

Stewart flew through the Reds minor league system last season, he had pitched only 37 innings at AA and 12 at AAA before the Jays acquired him.  His stats this season are not as impressive as his 2009 season but I would consider this a consolidation season for him.  Stewart started the year slowly and had ERA's over 5 in both April and May, but since then he has been much improved with an ERA of 2.84 in June and 2.37 in July.  You could argue that as a #1 ranked prospect this is a fall back season for Stewart.  Or you could argue that based on his June and July results he is making progress.  I think the unchanged ranking is fair.


2. Moises Sierra - Down

Sierra essentially will miss the 2010 season.  Even though he is still young it is never good to miss a year of development.


3. Henderson Alvarez - Up

I have to admit I am an Alvarez fan but a 20 year old pitcher with a mid 3 ERA in high A is a good prospect.  We could see in his futures game appearance that Alvarez has a good arm and can get it up to the plate in the mid nineties.  Alvarez's challenge now is to become more of a pitcher and less of a thrower.  Alvarez like to throw his pitches for strikes and the hitters can, and do, tee it up off him.  Once Alvarez tidies up his breaking ball and commands his fastball better he should be on his way to the majors. 


4. Chad Jenkins - Down

Jenkins is a number one pick but he hasn't yet shown consistent number one pick form.  Jenkins is a sinker/slider pitcher and we have seen many of them dominate at the lower levels before hitting the wall at AA.  Batters are hitting .280 off Jenkins this season and he has allowed more than a hit per inning.  Jenkins hasn't walked many but his strikeout rate is just 7/9IP.  I was hoping to see more dominance from Jenkins, as it is most of his starts are the same, 5 or 6 innings, six or seven hits, 1 or 2 walks and 4 or 5 strikeouts.


5. JP Arencibia - Up

There is not much for me to add here, improved power, improved batting average, improved eye at the plate.  Bring on the majors.


6. David Cooper - Down

Will the real David Cooper please stand up?  Cooper hit .192 in May and .211 in June before hitting .368 in July as I am writing this. Cooper may have been unlucky earlier in the season, his BABIP was .247 in May and June.  Cooper has also shown good power this season.  In his down May and June, over half of his hits went for extra bases, and almost half of his July hits are for extras.  But in the end we have to go on his last year and a half rather than one hot month.  As a first baseman Cooper needs to demonstrate above average hitting ability.  He has done so over the last month but he will need more than that to make it to the majors.


7. Tyler Pastornicky - Up

Tyler is now a Brave but he did play well as a 20 year old in Dunedin.


8. Carlos Perez - Up

We don't have a lot of statistics for Perez as the Jays kept him in extended spring but he has played very well for Auburn in the first month.  Strong hitting skills, good speed and excellent defence are a recipe for success.


9. Danny Farquhar - Unchanged

Last season Farquhar looked like the future closer of the Jays, he struck out 51 hitters in 46 innings in AA.  On the troublesome side Farquhar had 30 walks in those 46 innings.  As of this writing Farquhar has matched his innings total in AA from last season and his strikeouts are down slightly from 51 to 48.  Walks are up slightly from 30 to 32.  Hits are also up from 31 to 34 but home runs are up from 1 to 6.  So it looks like a stand pat season for Farquhar.  However Farquhar's numbers have improved since the Jays moved him to a long relief role.  Over his last 10 games his ERA is 1.42 and his walk numbers are "down" to 10 in 19 innings, with 4 of them coming in one appearance.  It looks like Farquhar has turned a corner but as with others on this list, he needs more than a few weeks to prove the point.

10. Tim Collins - Up

Tim has gone but his 2010 performance was up for sure.


New - Kyle Drabek - Up

Don't forget Drabek is only 22 years old pitching well in AA.  Drabek is an interesting pitcher, he appears to cruise for innings at a time before having a bad inning where he gives up 2 or 3 runs.  You hear stories about lost concentration, losing his delivery, or getting mad at himself and losing composure.  That suggests to me a pitcher who can pitch at higher levels and in some ways would welcome the challenge.  Drabek has been a very consistent starter for New Hampshire, as evidenced by his low 3's ERA, and looks ready for the next level.

New - Brett Wallace - Unchanged

Wallace's stats are very similar over the last two years.  He has hit between .280 and .300 in his four stops and his OPS is consistently around .840.  His 2010 numbers are very similar to his 2009 numbers so we have to say unchanged for Wallace.

New - Travis d'Arnaud - Unchanged

D'Arnaud started like a AA player in Dunedin in April but he went on the DL with a bad back and he hasn't been the same, statistically, since he came back.  D'Arnaud has been average across the board as a 21 year old in high A.  A 270 BA is OK; 20% strikeout rate is OK; 18 walks are a few less than you would like to see; and 22 of his 61 hits have been for extra bases, that too is OK.  So a solid average year for D'Arnaud after a hot start.


Sub-Total

Those were the Jays top 13 prospects heading into 2010.  How did they do?   I have 6 Ups; 4 Unchanged; and 3 Downs.  That is better than the expected one third, one third, one third and that means that this season, so far, has been successful for the Jays top 13 prospects.  Unfortunately two of the "Ups" were traded but the success of the Jays development allowed AA to trade those players for value in return.   One of the "Downs" was due to injury and the other two were the Jays first round picks in 2008 and 2009.  That is not a good sign, you have to able to be successful with your number one picks.

Let's move on the the rest of the top 30 and see if the pattern holds.

11. Brad Mills - Unchanged

Mills has returned to AAA and is putting up very similar numbers to 2009.  It's time to bring him back up to Toronto to see what he can do at the major league level in his second go-around.


12. Johermyn Chavez - No rating

Johermyn was traded and the Jays have had no role in his 2010 development so I will not rate him.


13. Andrew Liebel - Down

Liebel has been injured for much of 2010 but when he played his performance was worse than 2009.


14. Justin Jackson - Down

Jackson has been hit by injuries in 2010, again, but since he has returned he looks like the old Justin Jackson.  That is, he can hit a bit, field well, run some, but he doesn't hit well enough to be considered a premium prospect any more.


15. Brian Dopirak - Down

Dopirak has had an average year in Las Vegas.  But as a weak fielding first baseman he needs to be better than that.  Dopirak doesn't walk much, doesn't K too much but also hasn't shown the power you expect from a first base/DH player.  Dopirak is 26 years old, so time is flying by, but he needs to step it up to be considered a major league player.


16. Gustavo Pierre - Unchanged

As a 17 year old playing in the NYPL Pierre is doing well.  But he has not "broken out" with a demonstration of his skill set so I think unchanged is the way to go here.


17. Bobby Bell - Down

Bell is another player who has been hit by injuries this season.  The conversion of Bell to a starter now has a doubtful outcome but Bell could potentially still succeed as a reliever.


18. Darin Mastroianni - Up

Mastroianni is hitting over .300 in AA and his power is up this season over last.  Mastroianni has definitely exceeded expectations and it looks like he is headed for Las Vegas next season.


19. Sean Ochinko - Unchanged

Ochinko is another player with an OK 2010.  He is hitting close to .300 but he doesn't walk a lot and the home runs have been lacking, just six so far.  For a player expected to be a first base type in the majors Ochinko needs to show more power.  He is 22 so if the power is coming it should come soon.


20. Eric Thames - Up

Thames has finally had an injury free season and he is showing his potential in AA.  Thames has almost doubled his professional at-bats this year and his power has been excellent.  He has 18 home runs and 17 doubles in 350 at-bats.  He might be helped a little by the New Hampshire wall in right field but in any event it has been a break-out season for Thames.


Sub-Total: In the 11-20 category we have 2 Ups; 3 Unchanged; 4 Downs and one not rated.


21. Luis Perez - Unchanged

Perez returned to AA for 2010 and put up numbers that were worse than 2009 but he was promoted to AAA anyway.  Perez got off to a rocky start in AAA but his last two starts have been better.  Perez profiles as a reliever in the majors and as a lefty he has a chance to succeed in a LOOGY role.  In a small sample in AAA lefties have not hit him well so based on that, and his recent improvement I am going to stretch and say unchanged for his rating.


22. AJ Jimenez - Up

Jimenez is another young Jays catcher who can hit, run, and throw.  Sal Fasano loves him and for that reason alone he deserves an Up.


23. Bobby Ray - Down

Ray has been injured a lot since he turned pro and this year is no exception.  Ray hasn't had enough innings to show what he can do this season so because of that this is a down year for him.


24. Brad Emaus - Up

Emaus finally made it to AAA and is hitting .300 there.  Emaus has an OPS over 950, doesn't strike out much and just hits.   


25. Ryan Schimpf - Down

Schimpf has been disappointing in 2010.  With a batting average around 220 Schimpf isn't getting on base enough.  Schimpf has good power but his K rate is around 30%.


26. John Tolisano - Down

Tolisano has been a streaky hitter this season, at one time he had pushed his batting average up close to 300 but since then it is back down to 250.  As another player without a real position Tolisano needs to show a good bat to help him find a defensive position.  Tolisano is still only 21 and playing in the FSL, which is good, but his strikeout rate is up to 30% this season and that needs to get better.


27. Rey Gonzalez - Down

Gonzalez has taken several steps back from 2009.  Not only did he flame out in AAA but he has been struggling in AA too.


28. Trystan Magnuson - Up

Magnuson has had an excellent 2010 including a futures game appearance and an all-star selection. 


29. Jake Marisnick - Up

Marisnick doesn't have a lot of at-bats for us to see as he stayed in extended until the GCL started.  But he has hit well in the GCL and he is doing a lot of good things, not striking out much, walking a bit, having more than half of his hits go for extra bases.  Its been a good start for Marisnick.


30. Chuck Huggins - Unchanged

Huggins has pitched well again for Dunedin but struggled in a brief audition in AA.  Huggins numbers are similar to 2009 other than his strikeouts which are down a bit.  


Totals for 21-30: Up - 4; Unchanged - 2; Down - 4.


Overall Totals: Up - 12; Unchanged - 9; Down - 11.  Based on these numbers this looks like a typical minor league development pattern but it certainly feels better than that.

Not counted: The following players look like good prospects now but did not make the top 30 in 2009: Adam Loewen; Rommie Lewis; Alan Farina (when he is not injured); Ryan Goins; Mike McDade; Joel Carreno; and Kenny Wilson.   Adeiny Hechavarria, Shawn Bowman and this years draft picks are new to the organization and will be fighting for top 30 places at the end of the season.

I think one reason why the season seems to be better than it is is because so many of the players having an "Up" year are in the higher levels of the organization and are closer to the major leagues so we can visualize them in a Blue Jay uniform and as a result get more excited about them.  This includes JP Arencibia; Brad Emaus; Kyle Drabek; Eric Thames; Trystan Magnuson; Tim Collins (while he was here); and Darin Mastroianni.  

When you look at the Dunedin and Lansing rosters and ask yourself, "how many of these players will be major leaguers?", you come back with a short list.  Henderson Alvarez looks good, as do the catchers d'Arnaud and Jimenez but other than those three everyone else is a longer shot.  As AA trades players coming up to July 31 he might look to get back some A level players to fill that development gap in the organization.

The Jays have more interesting players in short season ball than they do in Dunedin and Lansing.  Players like Jake Marisnick, Carlos Perez, Gustavo Pierre, Chris Hakwins, Asher Wojciechowski, Noah Syndergaard and Aaron Sanchez have more potential than the higher ranked rosters in A ball.

So in summary 2010 looks to be a rebound season for the Jays minor league system, a welcome sight after a very weak 2009.

Prospects: Up, Down and Sideways | 49 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Mike Green - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#218889) #
I concur with everything Gerry has said, except for Wallace.  I'd say this year has seen him fall.  He's a year older and repeating the PCL in a more favourable environment than last year.  Putting up team average batting numbers is a noticeable step backwards.
John Northey - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 01:25 PM EDT (#218890) #
Nothing surprising here, if you've been paying attention that is. However, the key thing for the majors is to have a few breakouts each year - guys who step it up big time. JPA and Loewen land in that category with ease. Collins was doing the same, imo, before being traded as he shifted from side-show to real prospect. If I was AA I'd be checking who was the biggest influence on those breakouts and see what happened to others that person coached - if a trend emerges give that man a raise.

The end-of-season rankings will be interesting - see how others see the system and if we are too close to see either good or bad things going on.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#218893) #

Come on....I know you all want to say it.....

...suddenly.....JPA is our #1 prospect....

Ryan Day - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#218894) #
I think there's a bit of a problem with prospect rankings when Jenkins was considered a better prospect before he'd thrown a professional pitch.
Kelekin - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:14 PM EDT (#218895) #
Ryan: We had a .759 OPS outfielder who had been terrible his entire career prior to, as #2 overall.  Jenkins being 4th can't be that weird in comparison.
tercet - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:16 PM EDT (#218896) #
I agree with everything except for David Cooper, I think he is up, as he is having an underrated season.  His bb/k rates are great, his hr totals are up, but yea his avg is pretty low due to the babip issues.  He has improved over last season,but yes he is repeating AA.

Call me crazy but he might Cooper is ahead of Wallace in my opinion, who currently has very mediocre numbers in AAA PCL, with a pretty horrid bb/k rate.

greenfrog - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#218897) #
Well, Wallace had only 182 AB in AAA last year, so at this point he has had about a full season at that level, so he's not repeating AAA in the same sense that Arencibia is (and he's eight months younger than JP). He's also been learning a new position and has bounced around a lot between levels and organizations. I agree that he could be doing better, and could even be classified as having had a marginally "down" year, but to me he looks like someone who could put it together nicely over the next couple of years (just a guess).
tercet - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#218898) #
Call me crazy, but Cooper is ahead of Wallace in my opinion, who currently has very mediocre numbers in AAA PCL, with a pretty horrid bb/k rate.

I cant type properly, lol
Kelekin - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:23 PM EDT (#218899) #
My opinion on Wallace having a down year is that you have to rate 1B prospects differently.  His OPS might play well at other positions but right now he's interchangeable with a million other first basemen.  This is why I'm still putting the ridiculous notion out there to sign Delgado and give him a shot to fill the gap and give Wallace extra development time.  It might seem ridiculous, but it will help sell tickets and give Delgado a chance to hit his 500th HR with us.
uglyone - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#218900) #

Just keep Bautista in RF, EE at 3B, and let Snider and Lind have the 1B/DH spots.

EE is top-10 in MLB 3B OPS, btw.

And he's not even having a very good season. His UZR/150 as a Jay puts him in a 3B defensive group with the likes of Michael Young, David Freese, Chipper Jones, Aramis Ramirez, Casey Blake, and Miguel Tejada.

AWeb - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#218901) #
This would seem to be about the best you can expect from a prospect list going this deep - a lot of guys in the 11-30 range only make these lists because they had a career-best year in the minors, and are therefore predisposedto be a disappointment the next year. The top guys performing that well is very good, although I worry about AAA being in Vegas. It would seem to be a punishment for pitchers to get promoted there given the hitting environment, and hitters in the hitter-crazy PCL are tough to figure as well. It might take a few years before the Jays (and their fans) figure out exactly how to account for the environment in Vegas and how it affects different players.
FisherCat - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 04:32 PM EDT (#218906) #

Read an interesting piece by John Lott and he mentioned that Asher Woj... did indeed have some shoulder soreness

"...Which is why right-hander Asher Wojciechowski is resting in Florida at the moment. Wojciechowski joined the Doubledays after the Jays made him a supplemental first-round pick last month, but he developed shoulder soreness -- "nothing major," Holmberg said -- after pitching 12 innings in three games..."

Now I know in Gerry's interviews it was said that he was shut down to curb his innings, but I somehow felt that this didn't quite smell right and this seems to confirm my sense of smell.  Somewhat!

Spifficus - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 04:58 PM EDT (#218907) #

Just keep Bautista in RF, EE at 3B, and let Snider and Lind have the 1B/DH spots.

Snider hasn't played a game in the pros as a 1B. It's crazy to ask him to do it now with no training (both from a performance and injury-risk standpoint), let alone a significant amount of it. Additionally, it's nearly as crazy to let his defensive skills atrophy as a DH. He needs to play - in this case, wait in the minors for the trading deadline to sort out the rest of it. Heck, I'd be very wary of putting Lind there for an extended period. He's only had 4 games there, though it sounds like he's had a decent amount of practice time and was there in university so at least it's not completely foreign.

With that group of players, I would move EE to first and Bautista to third to open up right for Snider. Of course, I would also prefer moving either Encarnacion or Bautista to open first for Wallace, but I'm enamored with his mad left-on-left skills and opposite field power.

uglyone - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 05:12 PM EDT (#218908) #

Bautista is worse defensively at third than EE is, and the downgrade from Bautista to anyone else in RF is also fairly large.  

I don't think learning 1B is exactly a tough demand, and many players have learned 1B on the fly in MLB...but if you think Snider playing in the OF is of utmost importance, you can just DH Lewis. That would hurt us the least defensively.

 

Ducey - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 05:16 PM EDT (#218909) #

I think the BB rankings are more dependent upon on stats as the majority have not seen any of these guys play.  So evaluating a system based on the BB rankings might be somewhat unreliable.

For example, some of these guys are being asked to work on things and may not be throwing their best pitch as much or throwing a pitch they are working on.  This impacts their stats when in fact they may be progressing nicely.

Injuries sure take a toll though, eh?

TamRa - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 05:26 PM EDT (#218910) #
When you look at the Dunedin and Lansing rosters and ask yourself, "how many of these players will be major leaguers?", you come back with a short list.  Henderson Alvarez looks good, as do the catchers d'Arnaud and Jimenez but other than those three everyone else is a longer shot.

I'm assuming you forgot Jenkins here? Even if he's not impressing at the level we'd like to see, i don't think he's fallen into "longer shot" territory yet (and i say that as one who's not a huge fan)

I suppose one might argue for Cerrnao, Goins and McDade too but i can see the case against them.



As for this fallr's top 30, i'd assume it would come out of these guys (listed in no particular order:

AAA - JPA, Wallace, Mills, Emaus, Roenicke?

AA - Drabek, Stewart, Magnuson, Farquhar, Thames, Mastorianni, Loewen, Hechavarria, Jeroloman, Bowman, Farina, Cooper?

A+ - Alvarez, Jenkins, d'Arnaud, McDade, Goins, Sierra, Cerrano

A- Jimenez, Smith? Jackson?

R - Perez, Pierre, Knect, Hutchenson, Estrada, Sanchez, Woj, Syndergaard, Marisnick, Hobson

Draftees if/when the sign - McGuire, Murphy, Sweeney, Dyson, Thon, Bryant, Nicolino? Hawkins?

also - Cardona, Cenas? (Heredia?)

Throw in Bell and Ray just to make it an even 50 names - I don't think I missed anyone. Drop those two and the ones with "?" and you get down to 40 which i think is a reasonably safe guess.

But which 10 of those don't make the cut - and what order the rest are in - remains to be seen.

TamRa - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#218911) #
For example, some of these guys are being asked to work on things and may not be throwing their best pitch as much or throwing a pitch they are working on.  This impacts their stats when in fact they may be progressing nicely.

this is a VERY good point and worth remembering - it's hwere staying up on the reporting about these guys is key. when there is some reporting.

for instance, as far as i know there was no public information about JPA's eyes or his kidneys until after the season last year and I'm assuming a lot of his critics didn't cut him all that much slack when and if they did find out.

but, to use your illustration, when we do get John Lott or someone telling us flat out (or Jays personnel in one of Gerry's great interviews) that "X has been working to refine his change up, we're not really worried about the ERA right now" then it pays to factor those reports in.

but i think as we mature in this business of styling ourselves as baseball commentators and ad-hoc analyists, we get better at that, or at least i hope I do.
Magpie - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#218912) #
I've noticed several people suggesting Travis Snider be tried at first base. You do know he's 5 foot 10, right?
jgadfly - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 06:40 PM EDT (#218913) #
 ... I was trolling through this and that and discovered that the number 2 man in all of minor league ball for strikeouts is Dunedin's  Joel Carreno who doesn't even make the top 30.
Spifficus - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 06:41 PM EDT (#218914) #
I think I covered uzr/150 sample size issues before, but just in case, 50 games of UZR/150 data is not the same as 50 games of OPS. For me, I look someone outperforming their past at that sample size and put it in the same category as someone having a hot month - let's seem them triple it before I even start to wonder if it's for real. Bautista's played 31 games at third this year and is at -17. Last year, he played 26, and was at +9. His RF UZR/150 over 62 games is -10. over 36 games last year, it was +20. Basically, I take EE's improvement in UZR/150 this year with a whole bag of coarse road salt.

As for Snider in the infield, I would think that for someone who has never played the infield before (or even practiced there as far as I know), I think it's a whole lot tougher than someone who's used to having to react quickly. How long would it take him to learn to be merely horrific there? I don't know, probably not too too long, but I'd imagine significantly longer than EE.

Of course, with Lewis, well, he's been average in the outfield throughout his career, which is more than EE can say for 3b. For me, the better choices are between DHing (or more likely 1Bing) either Bautista or Encarnacion.
Dewey - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#218915) #
but i think as [*we*] mature in this business of [styling ourselves as baseball commentators] and ad-hoc analyists, we get better at that, or at least i hope I do.

Who are you talking about?  This is not a blog--yours or anyone else’s.  We don't, as far as I can tell, "style ourselves baseball commentators” (sounds awfully impressive, that), and what exactly is “ad hoc analysts”.   I’ve noticed that a few contributors to Da Box speak as if they have blogs or on-line publications elsewhere.  They sometimes tend to speak, as insiders, to each other, thereby isolating the rest of us.   Maybe that explains, too, some of the ‘morphing’ into an opinion site that Da Box seems to be undergoing of late. (Bloggers' whole modus operandi is to have opinions.)  I don’t like that, myself.   If you fancy yourself a “baseball commentator”, WillRain, fine;  but here you’re just another voice as far as I’m concerned.  We are most certainly not a business, either.   Are you sure you’re in the right place? 
Kasi - Wednesday, July 21 2010 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#218916) #
All he was saying is that when you rate a prospect (and everyone here does, whether it be me, willrain, Gerry, Mike Green, uglyone or anyone else) you have to take factors into question such as injuries, lasik surgeries, other procedures, learning new skills and so on into rating them. This site to me very much is one that talks about Blue Jays prospects and ranks them. Everyone has their opinion and the threads here are very much for people to present and argue those opinions.Can Wallace be an everyday 1B in the majors? Is Drabek no more then a number 3 starter? Is Collins going to be a stud in the majors or flame out against good competition? Which one of our good minor league catchers will be the catcher of the future? What will our rotation be 3 years from now? And so on.
uglyone - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#218948) #

Of course, with Lewis, well, he's been average in the outfield throughout his career, which is more than EE can say for 3b. For me, the better choices are between DHing (or more likely 1Bing) either Bautista or Encarnacion.

I really don't want to belabour the point...and I respect your opinion 100%....but I just can't agree with that.

RF and 3B are IMO considerably more important defensive positions than LF and 1B, and given that Bautista is our best defensive RF by a good margin, and EE is better defensively at 3B than Bautista, well....I just don't see why we'd hurt ourselves at either of those spots.  Bautista is the only guy we can put in RF other than Verno that can give us average fielding over there, and while EE isn't very good defensively, I just don't think (both from watching and from the numbers) that Jose has any business being at the hot corner whatsoever. IMO, moving Bautista to 3B hurts us at two key defensive positions, without any tangible gain from making the move.

Of course, if Wallace starts raking again and starts demanding a promotion, then the picture will change....but IMO, for now, Wallace isn't ready, and I think the obvious move is to have Lewis/Snider/Lind in the low-defensive-importance LF/DH/1B slots, as long as those starting 9 (i.e. Snider in, Overbay traded) are our best options at the plate.

 

uglyone - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:42 AM EDT (#218949) #

For example, some of these guys are being asked to work on things and may not be throwing their best pitch as much or throwing a pitch they are working on.  This impacts their stats when in fact they may be progressing nicely.

I'm not even sure if this is just picher-specific for the Jays' prospects this year - I think AA was very clear (the quotes are out there somewhere) that they are flat out forcing all of their minor league pitchers to pitch a required amount of changeups and offspeed pitches - at a level far higher than they're used to. Personally I'm taking all the SP prospect numbers with a large helping of salt this year.

Anders - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:49 AM EDT (#218950) #

Yeah, I always really enjoyed Alex Obal's (and another former posters) advanced scout feature before the start of each series. It was funny, informative and kept me interested in the series, even in September.

Yeah the reason that these threads have taken a backseat are basically threefold: 1. They take a fairly substantial amount of effort to do (somewhat a lame excuse, I know) 2. There didn't always seem to be a lot of interest from readers/posters. 3. The Jays haven't really been competitive other than for brief stretches, and team and personnel decisions became mystifying/frustrating enough to make spending the time to write 2000 words about the Jays vs. the Royals, games 94-96, somewhat depressing for Alex and I.

If there is sufficient interest perhaps it is something we could explore phasing back in.

Anders - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#218952) #

I'm not even sure if this is just picher-specific for the Jays' prospects this year - I think AA was very clear (the quotes are out there somewhere) that they are flat out forcing all of their minor league pitchers to pitch a required amount of changeups and offspeed pitches - at a level far higher than they're used to. Personally I'm taking all the SP prospect numbers with a large helping of salt this year.

I'm pretty sure that this has been organizational philosophy for a while. Most of the Jays recently developed starters throw 4 different pitches at least 10% of the time, which is very unusual. Shaun Marcum, Ricky Romero, Brett Cecil and to a lesser extent Dustin McGowan all have fantastic changeups, which I don't think is happenstance either.

Mike Green - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:54 AM EDT (#218953) #
I know that the Advance Scouts were a ton of work, but I loved them. 
uglyone - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 11:58 AM EDT (#218954) #

Good to know Anders...I do remember reading some specific quotes from AA and some minor league coaches about how many changeups and other offspeed pitches they were forcing their pitchers to throw....and it sounded as if it was a new organizational approach, at least in terms of proscribing exact minimums for the offspeed stuff.

Though even if it's not new FOR the organization, it would likely still have an impact on prospects that are new TO the organization, like Drabek, Stewart, and Jenkins.

I'll see if I can find those quotes. I could be misremembering.

92-93 - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 01:00 PM EDT (#218956) #

I loved the advanced scouting reports, and perhaps it could serve as a starting point for actual discussion about the games.

and EE is better defensively at 3B than Bautista...and while EE isn't very good defensively, I just don't think (both from watching and from the numbers) that Jose has any business being at the hot corner whatsoever.

Your infatuation with EE seriously blinds you from reality. Since I know you are married to UZR/150, here goes -

Edwin Encarnacion 4994.1innings @ 3B = -12.5 UZR/150

Jose Bautista 2698innings @ 3B = 10.3 UZR/150

In JoBau's 2007/2008 seasons, the ones in which he received the most regular playing time at 3B, he had better UZR/150s both times than any of E5's last 3 seasons. JoBau's poor play and UZR/150 in his limited time at 3B this year is an indicative as his work at 3B for the Jays last year, when he posted a 9.1 UZR/150.

Here are 2 links which will show the Fielding Bible rating E5 as the WORST 3B in baseball both for 2008 and for 2006-2008.

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders1-0608.gif

http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders1-08.gif

 

92-93 - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#218957) #
Of course JoBau's career UZR/150 should read as a negative as well.
uglyone - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#218960) #

actually, I'm not married to UZR in the least. It's one of my least favorite stats - but still our best fielding stat.

Most of my experience watching EE has come while he's been a Blue Jay, and to my blind eyes, EE hasn't looked nearly that awful in the field. He makes far too many errors to ever be good out there, but he has a very good glove and makes plenty of plays out there. Competent but error prone is how I'd describe his 3B defensive performance as a Jay. Meanwhile, Jose just can't make the plays out there. Balls eat him up and go right through him with regularity.

And the numbers back up the fact that EE has been better defensively as a Jay than he was before...I don't know if that's just fluke sample size, or whether Votto was a hack at 1B while Overbay is pretty good, or whether Butterfield is working more of his defensive magic....

  • EE as a Jay: 817.2inn, -5.9 uzr/150

Now that's still bad, but it's just plain bad, not horrendously bad.

 

christaylor - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#218961) #
I agree with the thoughts on the advance scout reports -- I always enjoyed reading the advance scouts before a series. They were good reads, even if they didn't tend to generate a ton of comments.
vw_fan17 - Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 03:41 PM EDT (#218965) #
Mark me down as liking "Advance Scout" as well..
scottt - Friday, July 23 2010 @ 07:21 AM EDT (#218999) #
I love the Advance Scout Report, but it's a bit late for that. I know the teams ahead all too well.
Prospects: Up, Down and Sideways | 49 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.