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Have you guys been watching baseball recently? Personally, I´ve been busy following the craziest tennis match of all-time and, well, this (Go The Netherlands!). But this is a baseballing website, so let´s talk baseball.

Romero was great, as he has been all season long, but the offense couldn´t do anything for him. Not for the first time, and not by a long shot - Romero has a 6-4 record on a year in which he´s pitched to a stellar 2.83 ERA. How does that even happen?

Anyway, the Jays have fallen into a bit of a trough recently, losing two out of three from both the Cardinals and Phillies and dropping the first of a four game set against Cleveland. They now stand eight games back of the Yankees, six back of the Red Sox, and five back of the Rays.

Tonight: the red-hot Brandon Morrow squares off against Fausto Carmona. Sounds like a match-up in the Jays´ favour, but I would have said the same thing about Romero versus Jake Westbrook.
TDIB June 29: Romeroh No! | 39 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
christaylor - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 10:29 AM EDT (#217669) #
"Romero has a 6-4 record on a year in which he´s pitched to a stellar 2.83 ERA. How does that even happen?"

.306 OBP, good for last in the AL and 28th in MLB. Strange way to get to league average OPS/OPS+ with the high SLG.

As much as the young pitchers have been fun to watch, it is balanced by the pain of watching the offense (sure, the HR are nice... but still).
92-93 - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 10:41 AM EDT (#217670) #

The Lind at-bat in the first inning appears to have been the turning point of the game. Last year he was excellent when jumping on the first pitch, and Ashby thinks that's been a big problem of his this year, letting the best pitch to hit sail by. He attacked last night, which I guess is a good thing, but came up empty, and when Hill followed with an out it took the steam out of what looked like a promising start. Hopefully the Jays can win 5 or 6 of these 12 games before the break and head in above .500, because who knows where things go from there after a nice rest. The Jays open the 2nd half schedule with a 10g road trip but it's a reprieve compared to the opponents they've been facing lately, @CLE @KC @DET. Then they get BAL & CLE at home before getting into the meat of the schedule after the trading deadline, but a strong finish in July could mean the roster gets bolstered instead of gutted, and 6 GB of Boston is not insurmountable considering the injuries they are dealing with. I'm skeptical of teams giving up enough for Downs/Frasor/Buck/Gonzalez to make it worthwhile to just sell as opposed to offering them arbitration and receiving compensation draft picks.

Just visited the website Christopher, got suckered in when I checked out Rzepczynski's stats :)

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#217677) #
Have you guys been watching baseball recently?
Greatest non-sequitur first line EVER.

On the "how does that happen" question -- well, when Bob Gibson had that stupid 1968 season with the 1.12 ERA (which always looks like a typo) ... he was "only" 22-9. Whaaa? In fact, from 1964-70, when Gibby's WORST ERA for a season in that span was 3.07, he was a combined 138-72. Reee-diculous.
Chuck - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 11:36 AM EDT (#217678) #

As much as the young pitchers have been fun to watch, it is balanced by the pain of watching the offense (sure, the HR are nice... but still).

At the start of the season, I thought the team's offensive upside was league average, and that's exactly where they are (4.53 R/G; league average is 4.55). So many players are due for a regression -- Wells, Bautista, Buck, Gonzalez -- that rebounds from Hill and Lind, and a return by Snider, may not be enough to serve as an offset. I still see league average as the team's offensive upside, not the expectation.

Interestingly, the team's pitching is almost exactly league average as well (4.40 R/G; league average is 4.48).

Yes, I know both the offense and pitching are subject to higher than average caliber opposition, so both come with the prerequisite asterisks.

christaylor - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 03:24 PM EDT (#217687) #
"So many players are due for a regression -- Wells, Bautista, Buck, Gonzalez"

I totally agree that Buck/Gonzalez are over their heads... heck, it wouldn't really shock me if they both didn't hit another HR all season, but I don't put Wells and Bautista in the same category.

Wells, because he's shown this level of output before and I'm willing to accept that his lousy seasons were largely the result of injury.

Bautista is a little different, since coming over to the Jays he's shown improvement just getting out of PIT. One of the many astute commenters on here offered up the possibility that PIT player development / coaching is as pitiful as the rest of their organization, which may have prevented Bautista from developing. We'll see how Bautista goes from here on out, but at the moment I think that while Bautista will almost certainly regress, it may not be as much as one might think given his past history.

That being said, if I had to bet, I'd bet the offense ends up below league average and the pitching above.
John Northey - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 03:29 PM EDT (#217688) #
Funny how everyone seems to feel the offense will be below average and pitching above in the end when right now the OPS+ is 102 and ERA+ is 98.

Of course, on the staff we don't have to worry about Eveland's 9 ugly starts (64 ERA+) and hopefully not Tallet's 69 ERA+ (actually a bit better in just starts as his relief has been poor so far). Hopefully Litsch will also improve on his 48 ERA+ too. Btw, a 48 ERA+ is what Halladay had in his nightmare 2000 season before being sent down to A ball to rebuild.
Kasi - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#217689) #
Well with Romero, Marcum, Morrow and hopefully Cecil (if he starts to rebound) we have 4 above average starters. Bullpen of course is worse, but its not unrealistic to think that the pitchers will improve. Don't know what's wrong with the hitting. So many people are having career low BA this year. I remember all the complaints about Rios and Wells last year, but at least they were hitting .250-.260.

It's shocking to know that Lind and Hill are under .200.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#217691) #

So many players are due for a regression -- Wells, Bautista, Buck, Gonzalez -- that rebounds from Hill and Lind, and a return by Snider, may not be enough to serve as an offset.

 

I don't think your math adds up.

 

Due for Regression:

  1. J.Bautista (+.148ops career / +.142ops peak)
  2. J.Buck (+.122 / +.056)
  3. V.Wells (+.111 / +.008)
  4. A.Gonzalez (+.097 / -.001)

Due for Improvement:

  1. A.Lind (-.183ops career / -.323ops peak)
  2. A.Hill (-.114 / -.184)
  3. L.Overbay (-.102 / .178)
  4. T.Snider (value over injury replacements EE/Hoff/McCoy/Wise/Reed)

I'd say there's more than enough expected improvement to make up for the regression.

Chuck - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#217692) #

Well with Romero, Marcum, Morrow and hopefully Cecil (if he starts to rebound) we have 4 above average starters.

Inning limits will likely be placed on the latter three, meaning that a bunch of second half starts will be going to starters #6 and beyond. That alone should result in a decline in starting pitching in the second half. Further, fatigue may become a factor for both Romero and Marcum. And some regression. Change-up specialists tend to give up more homeruns than they have thus far.

I would imagine that a rebound from the relievers is not out of the question given the level of underperformance we have witnessed to date. Will that be enough to balance the probable decline in starting pitching?

Dewey - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 04:50 PM EDT (#217697) #
If Snider is "due for improvement," I'm afraid that it might take weeks to happen--whenever he returns.  It might take weeks for him just to get back to where he was.  What a shame he got injured just when he was starting to roll.
Kasi - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#217698) #
Also depends on if Drabek or Stewart get any major league time this year. I think Scrabble can do as good a job as Cecil has. Also depends on how Litsch works out.
Denoit - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 06:17 PM EDT (#217699) #
Jake Marisnick my new favourite prospect!
The_Game - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 07:11 PM EDT (#217700) #
92-93... the Jays will have to go 55-30 from this point to even reach 95 wins (it's taken at least 95 wins to get the wildcard in six of the last seven years). Even if the Jays had the personnel to accomplish that, they would still have to make up significant ground on several teams that are simply better than them.

I'd put the playoffs out of your mind. This team needs to sell.

92-93 - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 07:45 PM EDT (#217703) #
I prefer to keep the dream alive - it's not like I have any expectations, and I don't see DET, LAA, TBR, or TEX as significantly better than TOR. This team doesn't need to sell, unless somebody is willing to offer up more for the impending FAs than their compensation value. I find that unlikely, although the Jays will probably be helped by the fact they'd be willing to eat the salaries if it meant teams were actually going to give them premier prospects. I certainly wasn't implying that AA should turn down viable trade offers in hopes of contention - I just don't think they'll be there. Time will tell.
The_Game - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 08:17 PM EDT (#217711) #
I have nothing against believing in pipe dreams, but I don't think AA should even consider "bolstering" this roster at the deadline. It's not even close to good enough.
uglyone - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 08:39 PM EDT (#217714) #
bah.

you add Heath Bell and Adrian Gonzalez to this team, and we're right there in the hunt.


James W - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 08:54 PM EDT (#217715) #
Sure, they are very talented players.  In fact, key components of the team with the best record in the National League.  Acquiring those two is definitely a pipe dream.
92-93 - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#217716) #
If all it costs is $ I think AA would be a fool to NOT bolster the Jays lineup at the deadline if they are still within striking distance. I'm obviously not implying the Jays should sacrifice their long-term future to make a run this year, I was referring to moves that either fit for 2011 and beyond or taking on salary from other teams without paying much of a price in terms of prospects. Somebody like impending FA Jose Guillen comes to mind, whose 21g hitting streak ended last night, during which he hit .378/.400/.463, and you'd assume the Royals are looking to move him to give Ka'aihue a shot. I for one certainly wouldn't mind to see Rogers spend a little more $ on the roster if the right situation presented itself.
Gerry - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 09:58 PM EDT (#217717) #
New poll up on what should the Jays do.
85bluejay - Tuesday, June 29 2010 @ 11:10 PM EDT (#217720) #

What the jays should?

SELL!!!SELL!!!SELL!!!

uglyone - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 12:16 AM EDT (#217722) #
the first thing we should do is call up JPA, Encarnacion, Wallace, Lubanski, Roenicke, and Collins.

they'd all do at least as well, if not better, than the guys playing ahead of them right now.




Spifficus - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 12:43 AM EDT (#217726) #
Ok, I'll bite. What 6 players would you take off the 25 man roster, and what 5 off the 40?
uglyone - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 01:16 AM EDT (#217728) #
Guys we could trade or waive without worrying about any loss in performance from their replacements and who likely wouldn't return much in trade - Hoffpauir, Wise, Green, Overbay, Frasor, Janssen.

Guys who would be harder to replace this year would be Buck and Downs, but I wouldn't mind seeing JPA and Collins getting the chance to do it. But both Buck and Downs should almost certainly be able to get us some value back if dealt.




krose - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 01:18 AM EDT (#217730) #

My apologies for using the blog for an off topic subject. I have 2 friends who have purchased tickets for the Yanks and Mariners from July 8 to 11. We've had some real bad floods here and these folks have extensive home and property damage. They have these excellent tics they can not use and would like to sell. If you are interested, please send me an email and I'll hook you up.

They are excellent tickets that are all in the Terrace Club (on the aisle) close to first and/or third base. Thursday, July 8 7:10 pm Section 220 Row 6 Seat 3 & 4 (first base area) Friday, July 9 7:10 pm Section 119 Row 9 Seat 1 & 2 (first base area) Saturday, July 10 7:10 pm Section 244 Row 3 Seat 1 & 2 (third base area) Sunday, July 11 1:10 pm Section 119 Row 9 Seat 1 & 2 (first base area)

ayjackson - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 01:21 AM EDT (#217731) #
I imagine a Buck trade may be forced if Arencibia keeps it up at Vegas.  You'd like to know whether Arencibia or Jeroloman can handle the lion's share of the duties next season prior to heading into the offseason.
Spifficus - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 02:29 AM EDT (#217733) #
Oh, wait. You were talking at the deadline. Sorry. I thought you meant now. Lost track of which thread I was in.

For the most part, I don't look at it as who needs to come up as I do who offers value on the trade market / isn't part of the medium or long term. I'd send Overbay away at that point no matter what - either he's built up enough value to get a something for him, or he hasn't earned the right to roadblock Wallace. He's really the only dump I'd be looking at though. Bautista (who I expect to be manning 3b by then) could be moved for the right price. Roenicke should have a spot open with presumably Downs getting dealt (I can't see bullpen-hungry contenders passing on this reliable lefty), and hopefully Frasor as well (I get a sneaking suspicion he'd accept arbitration, and I think someone from Janssen, Accardo or Roenicke's going to grab his role next year). I'd keep Collins down, though. There's no sense in rushing him - he's extremely young and has a history of wildness to keep working on. Lubanski shouldn't take away ABs from Lind, so I'm take it or wait til Sept with him. With JPA, I could see the team not wanting to rock the boat with the pitching staff, and stick with Buck. If the right deal comes along, I'd move him, but I wouldn't force it. JPA can easily be a Sept call-up. After all this (and probably more), I'm sure there'd be more than enough ABs to bring EE back.

Main thing I'd want to do is leverage the deadline to bring a star-level 3b-of-the-future in (I have a man-crush on Lawrie, what can I say). If it requires Marcum to bring back a package that includes one, then that sucks, but so be it.
Sano - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 05:39 AM EDT (#217739) #
Fasano is rumoured to be one of the candidates to replace Gaston next year.  Wow, that would be kind of a shocker.  I would think we'd want someone with a little more experience to coach the youngsters coming up.
http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=326068

brent - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 07:15 AM EDT (#217740) #
Blalock's been DFA'd by the Rays. Could it be a more perfect fit for a Cito reclaimation project?
China fan - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 10:50 AM EDT (#217753) #
Before we get too excited about the hitting stars of Las Vegas, it's worthwhile to consider Jarrett Hoffpauir for a moment.  Sure, it's a small sample size, but his OPS has plunged from .910 (PCL) to .426 (MLB).  At the age of 27, with a short stint in the majors already in 2009, Hoffpauir's adjustment to major-league pitching should have been a little easier than a 23-year-old or 24-year-old like Wallace or JPA.   In the PCL, Hoffpauir was lights out:  hitting for average, hitting for power, hitting for the cycle twice.  Yet in the majors, handed a starting role and plenty of at-bats, he is struggling dismally.  (Yes, a small sample, but is anyone predicting that he'll dramatically improve in a much bigger sample?)
This is not to denigrate Hoffpauir -- I'd be happy if he bounces back.  And yes, I'm aware of the argument that we should get Wallace or JPA to the majors as soon as possible so that they can begin their adjustment during a rebuilding year, like 2010, rather than waiting until next year.  My point is simply a broader one: never under-estimate the difficulty of hitting successfully in the majors, and never assume that a hot-hitting prospect can duplicate his success in the majors.   And even more broadly, never assume that a hitter who racks up a superb major-league season will manage to repeat the trick annually.  Hill and Lind were kings of the minors, great hitters, and both posted a monster year in the majors in 2009.  Now they're struggling to duplicate it.  Travis Snider dominated the minors, yet it's taken him a couple years to adjust to the majors -- and we can't even be entirely sure if he has adjusted, aside from a 10-day hot streak in May before his injury.  Lyle Overbay: one or two good seasons in the majors, and then difficulty repeating it.
In fact, if you look up and down the Jays lineup, who has managed the trick of posting more than one superb year of hitting in the majors?  Only one guy.  And we all think he is grossly overpaid.


Kasi - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#217762) #
You're way underestimating Overbay. In 10 major league seasons he has a career OPS+ of 110. That is well above average. He has 5 full seasons with an OPS+ greater then 108, and 3 of those with an OPS+ greater then 120. He's a solid major league player, and right now is sadly even in an off year for him one of our best hitters over the last month.
uglyone - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 02:44 PM EDT (#217773) #

Oh, wait. You were talking at the deadline. Sorry. I thought you meant now. Lost track of which thread I was in.

Most of those moves don't have to wait for the deadlne - dumping Hoff, Wise, Green, Overbay, Frasor could happen today for all it matters. We won't gain anything by holding off on it until the deadline. We're likely hurting ourselves by keeping them ahead of some of the guys on the farm, to be honest.

Buck and Downs, though, we're probably best served by waiting until the deadline.


Before we get too excited about the hitting stars of Las Vegas, it's worthwhile to consider Jarrett Hoffpauir for a moment.  Sure, it's a small sample size, but his OPS has plunged from .910 (PCL) to .426 (MLB).  At the age of 27, with a short stint in the majors already in 2009, Hoffpauir's adjustment to major-league pitching should have been a little easier than a 23-year-old or 24-year-old like Wallace or JPA.   In the PCL, Hoffpauir was lights out:  hitting for average, hitting for power, hitting for the cycle twice.  Yet in the majors, handed a starting role and plenty of at-bats, he is struggling dismally.  (Yes, a small sample, but is anyone predicting that he'll dramatically improve in a much bigger sample?)

A few large caveats to that:

  1. This is Hoffpauir's FOURTH season in AAA. He has 1362 plate appearances in AAA. He is 27 years old - he has had ample opportunity to learn that level.   This is much different than 23/24 year old JPA and Wallace, in their 2nd seasons in AAA.
  2. Hoff posting a .900ish ops isn't as impressive as guys like JPA and Lubo and EE hitting closer to 1.000ops down there.
  3. Hoffpauir simply doesn't have the athletic talent or track record of guys like JPA, Lubo, EE, or Wallace. His track record and lack of performance at MLB level fits the AAAA profile perfectly - a guy who has learned over many at bats how to hit well at the AAA level, but can't cover for his weaknesses against better MLB pitching.

 

You're way underestimating Overbay. In 10 major league seasons he has a career OPS+ of 110. That is well above average. He has 5 full seasons with an OPS+ greater then 108, and 3 of those with an OPS+ greater then 120. He's a solid major league player, and right now is sadly even in an off year for him one of our best hitters over the last month.


I hate that people keep saying that Overbay was one of our best hitters over the last month. That's damning with faint praise. Overbay has been barely passable over the last month, still can't hit lefties at all, and is nowhere near hitting well enough for a 1B still. And he's had a better month than all of Gonzalez/Lewis/Bautista by only the smallest of margins - and those are their DOWN months. We can't keep trying to praise Overbay for having one month that wasn't absolutely horrific.

June:

  1. Molina: 17ab, .921ops
  2. Wells: 92ab, .814
  3. Buck: 66ab, .807
  4. Overbay: 75ab, .757
  5. Gonzalez: 84ab, .744
  6. Lewis: 82ab, .726
  7. Bautista: 80ab, .724
  8. Hill: 97ab, .604
  9. Encarnacion: 48ab, .598
  10. McDonald: 10ab, .500
  11. McCoy: 8ab, .500
  12. Lind: 89ab, .455
  13. Hoffpauir: 23ab, .426
  14. Wise: 14ab, .357
  15. Reed: 6ab, .143
Kasi - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 03:05 PM EDT (#217776) #
That is why I said sadly he's been performing better then them. Regardless Overbay has been an above average major league hitter over his career. Would love to get some more players in here with a 110 lifetime OPS+.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#217777) #

Regardless Overbay has been an above average major league hitter over his career. Would love to get some more players in here with a 110 lifetime OPS+.

Bear in mind that the average OPS+ for first basemen is probably more like 110 than 100, making Overbay average for his career when adjusted for position.

Kelekin - Wednesday, June 30 2010 @ 04:11 PM EDT (#217779) #
I'm rather enjoying the criticisms of Hoffpauir.  I mean, 23 ABs is definitely a huge sample size to make a point.  Bravo.
scottt - Thursday, July 01 2010 @ 07:48 AM EDT (#217789) #
June is finally over. Today is as good a day as any to get out of a slump.

Litsch has probably earned himself 2 more starts.

It might be a small sample for Hoffpauir, (4 hits, 3 strike outs, 2 walks in 24 at-bats), but how long is he going to stick if EE is hitting well in Vegas?

Overbay is OK, just platoon the guy already. Overbay would have better value if he can demonstrate that he can accept that role.

jmoney - Thursday, July 01 2010 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#217794) #
Congrats to the Blue Jays getting swept by the mighty Indians.

Another year where the team is uninteresting by the all star break.

China fan - Thursday, July 01 2010 @ 04:19 PM EDT (#217795) #
...It might be a small sample for Hoffpauir, (4 hits, 3 strike outs, 2 walks in 24 at-bats), but how long is he going to stick if EE is hitting well in Vegas?

The sample size for EE in Las Vegas is, by definition, just about identical to the sample size for Hoffpauir in the majors.  If the Hoffpauir sample size is too small to have any significance, then the same should obviously apply to EE's numbers at Vegas.

Or put it this way. If Hoffpauir had a high batting average at Vegas and a low average in Toronto, and if EE had a low average in Toronto and a high average in Vegas, can we really draw any conclusions except that the PCL is an easier hitting environment than the American League East?   It's unlikely that Hoffpauir has drastically changed as a hitter, and it's unlikely that EE has drastically changed as a hitter.  The only thing that's changed is the environment that they're playing in.  To think that EE would dramatically improve if he is recalled would be a little naive.

Chuck - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 07:20 AM EDT (#217814) #
John Buck's value just went up now that Varitek has joined Victor Martinez on the DL. Would an Epstein-Anthopolous trade set a record for lowest combined age of the GMs involved?
Chuck - Friday, July 02 2010 @ 11:47 AM EDT (#217819) #
I think we need a fresh TDIB thread. Marcum goes to the DL.
TDIB June 29: Romeroh No! | 39 comments | Create New Account
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