Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine Batter's Box Interactive Magazine
The Jays lose as Tampa Bay again rallied in the late Innings to win 7-3.

Shaun Marcum was great for most of the night, he took a 2-1 lead into the 8th, but then the Tampa Bay bats got working with a vengeance.  They scored six off Marcum, Frasor and Downs in the 8th, with a Carl Crawford grand slam off Downs doing most of the damage.  The Jays played very well in this series overall, but have only a single win to show for it.

The Jays main four starters could all be heading for new highs in Innings Pitched this year.   Assuming they all start another 21 games and carry on at their current rate of Innings per start, these are the figures we would wind up with:

                      Age        On Pace              Previous High    Difference
Marcum         28         213                      168                      45
Romero        25          224                      192                      32
Cecil              23         177                       142                      35
Morrow          25         193                       124                      69

Now it's obviously unlikely that all  four are going to go the whole season without missing another start, but if they do that's quite a jump in Innings for Cecil and Morrow.  Something I'll be keeping an eye on in the second half.

Elsewhere in the East, Boston beat Oakland 6-4 to tie the Jays at 31 wins, but also got some bad news - Josh Beckett is at least 10 days away from starting to throw again. The Yankees got Jorge Posada back and  beat up on Baltimore to celebrate.  the Orioles season continues to go from bad to worse and they've now lost seven straight.  WIth just 15 wins Baltimore is three behind everybody else in the bigs.  Dave Trembley will surely be replaced in the next few days, and if as Peter Schmuck suggests the job is eating him alive, it will be the best for everybody.  I agree with Schmuck - it's not fair to Trembley who seems to be a decent and dignified man to leave him twisting in the wind.  He's had a thankless task as O's skipper, and while some of the blame for this season's mess lies with him, there's a lot of blame to spread around for the Orioles record this season.  There is some good news for the Baltimore though, Brian Roberts  wil start a minor league rehab on Friday and could be back by the middle of the month and Jake Arrieta won again in AAA, taking his record to 6-2 with a 1.77 ERA.


Awful situation in Detroit last night, when Armando Galarraga was robbed of a perfect game on a blown call at first base on what should have been the last out of the game. After sending 26 Indians' back to the dugout in regulation Galarraga got Jason Donald to bounce one to first, Galarraga covered the bag and took the throw with Donald clearly a step off the base, but veteran umpire Jim Joyce ruled the runner safe.  This has been a pretty rough week for the Umpires, we all know they're going to blow some calls, but that's about as bad a call to blow as there is, it's not even as if looked like a bang-bang play.  Jim Joyce must be feeling truly awful, he admitted after the game to blowing the call and has aplogised to Galarraga.  Twitterer's are reporting that Jim Leyland and Galarraga handled the post game press conference with a great deal of class, Leyland apparently is calling this the 'first 28 out perfect game'.

No game today, the good guys get a day off to prepare for the Yankees this weekend.
TDIB 03 June 2010. Rays rally late again. | 38 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
Chuck - Wednesday, June 02 2010 @ 10:24 PM EDT (#216092) #

Joyce admitted he made a mistake when he saw the replay. Oddly, though, he said that he thought that Donald had beat the throw. Huh???? Donald clearly did not beat the throw. Perhaps Galaragga missed the base. Perhaps he bobbled the ball. But Galaragga, and the throw, most definitely both beat the runner to the base.

Major league baseball players deserve far better than the umpires that are currently charged with calling their games. Incident after incident of shoddy work, to say nothing of the far too numerous overbearing personalities in the profession. I'm not sure what the solution is, but something has to give. This can't continue.

scottt - Wednesday, June 02 2010 @ 10:41 PM EDT (#216093) #
I  was curious to see what would happen with Gregg unavailable. I sure wasn't expecting Marcum to be kept in until he lost the lead.





ayjackson - Wednesday, June 02 2010 @ 10:49 PM EDT (#216094) #
Marcum was under 100 pitches.  I expected and hoped he'd come out for the ninth unless he got in trouble.  Let's face it, the Rays have our number in the 8th and 9th innings.  It doesn't matter what Cito does, the Rays hit.  The only one immune is the ex-Ray, Shawn Camp.
TamRa - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 01:51 AM EDT (#216096) #
I was rooting for the complete game but I'd have pulled him once we got those two runners on. I would have expected Camp given his history though.


Ryan Day - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 09:43 AM EDT (#216105) #
I can't fault Cito for this one. Frasor and Downs just couldn't get anyone out. Shawn Camp is the only reliever I have any faith in, which is kind of a frightening prospect.

(I like Camp. I just don't like appending "Blue Jays Relief Ace" to his name.)

Magpie - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 10:13 AM EDT (#216106) #

What Ryan said.

Weird game if you were scoring it, by the way (I was working it).

China fan - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 10:36 AM EDT (#216110) #

A couple of quick fixes to the bullpen would be:  put Tallet into the bullpen (replacing him in the rotation with Mills or Litsch); demote Janssen; and announce the reinstatement of "closer by committee" with an expanded committee that could include almost anyone:  Frasor, Downs, Gregg, Camp, or even Lewis or Purcey, depending on who seems to have the hot hand or the right amount of rest.  Of course that would violate MLB's unwritten rules about a rigidly defined closer for 3 outs in the 9th inning, so we probably won't see it. 

Long-term, the Jays need to sort out their closer for 2011 -- which might explain why the Jays keep going with Gregg.  If this is a rebuilding year, they can give auditions to several possible closers, as they've been doing so far this year.   With regard to Gregg: the Jays need to know if he can handle 4 games in 5 days.  They need to know if he can recover his equilibrium after walking a batter or two.  They need to know if he can handle a couple of questionable calls by an umpire.  Well, at least they're getting some answers, even if the answers aren't good ones...

John Northey - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 10:37 AM EDT (#216111) #
Tough spot for Cito. Frasor flopped as a closer, seemed the pressure got to him. Gregg has had issues (to put it politely). Downs flopped horribly last night. Who is next?

Accardo is not impressive in AAA, K rate below 5 per 9 IP. Our AA closer walks 7 per 9 and Tiny Tim is wild too. Camp is good for multiple innings and you'd rather not limit him to a single inning. Purcey & Lewis have too little experience for Cito to toss it at them. Who else?

Might be seeing a trade soon to get a veteran closer. The all-time leader, Hoffman, is stinking in Milwaukee but might do well with a change of venue (take on any of that contract and Milwaukee would be happy). No others jump out at me as a closer who their team would want to dump who might recover enough to help in 2010. Ideally we'd find a Henke type - someone who has been forgotten in AAA by their big team but has the ability if given a shot - but those are rare to find.
Spicol - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 10:57 AM EDT (#216113) #

I thought leaving Marcum in was a great decision by Cito when one considers the long term. How do you teach a guy to be an ace starter who can properly perform is situations such as those if he isn't tested in situations such as those? And let's face it...the Jays are performing well but the priority this season should be teaching.

China fan - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 11:10 AM EDT (#216115) #
Gaston, incidentally, is confirming that Tallet will probably be switched back to the bullpen in the medium-term, maybe after making one more start in the rotation.  The assumption is that Litsch would come up.  But I wonder if Mills is the better option.  Look at how Litsch, Tallet and Zep have all struggled in their Vegas rehab starts.  It's further testament to the PCL environment and the difficult challenges for all pitchers at Vegas.  This, to my mind, is further evidence that Mills is probably ready for the majors, since he has (mostly) thrived in the PCL this season, with only a couple of bad games.  The fact that Mills can produce a 4.33 ERA in the PCL -- while Tallet, Litsch and Zep have Vegas ERAs north of 8.80 and up to 54 in the case of Tallet (obviously in extremely small samples) -- does have some significance, I think. 
Matthew E - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 11:24 AM EDT (#216117) #

I think the best way to find a closer is always to build your own. History is full of examples of teams who go through all kinds of contortions to find a decent closer only to discover that they had the best solution in-house all the time. Look at the Jays with Henke replacing Caudill in '85, or the Escobar/Myers/Koch dance they did in the late '90s.

Not that I have any idea who a good candidate for this would be. The obvious suspects are all defiantly refusing to take a step forward. But, remember: there's no rush. This team isn't going to get where it's going in the next couple of years. I'm willing to watch Gregg and Frasor and, I don't know, Roenicke fumble around for the foreseeable future while the Jays get the rest of their ducks in a row.

Original Ryan - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#216121) #
Might be seeing a trade soon to get a veteran closer. The all-time leader, Hoffman, is stinking in Milwaukee but might do well with a change of venue (take on any of that contract and Milwaukee would be happy). No others jump out at me as a closer who their team would want to dump who might recover enough to help in 2010. Ideally we'd find a Henke type - someone who has been forgotten in AAA by their big team but has the ability if given a shot - but those are rare to find.

Looking at the major league teams that can be safely considered out of contention, there really aren't many veteran arms worth acquiring.  Someone like D.J. Carrasco could probably be picked up, but he's probably not much of an upgrade over what the Jays have now.

I'd love to see a Tom Henke type picked up, but I think a Pete Walker type might be the more likely scenario.  There are some older AAA pitchers floating around that the Jays could probably acquire cheaply and maybe get some decent innings out of.  At worst they could bolster Las Vegas's bullpen.
bpoz - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 12:00 PM EDT (#216122) #
As mentioned by many we need a good closer. All this season we have not had a reliable closer. Must be tough on Cito who is staying with one guy until he fails then switches guys.

All through the game "I knew" Marcum could not go 9 innings. That is not a knock against him, I just don't think that he is a 9 inning guy. Of course last night with his pitch count in the low 90's at the end of 8 innings I thought he WOULD successfully complete it. I liked him staying in for the 9th because I had more faith in him than whomever would come in for the save. My being nervous from the 5th onward is no way to enjoy a fantastic game. Marcum greatly surprised me I now think he has a few complete games in him because the Rays are an Eastern beast.

IMO our pen will not consistently handle the beasts of the East. I think most of us feel the same way.

Downs /Fraser/Gregg are not good closers as they are proving but they would have a lot of value to a contending team in non-closer roles.

D Purcey last pitched 1 inning on may 25th, that is not good but where could Cito have used him. He is our 7th man so keeping him fresh while important is not a priority.



Mike Green - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 12:21 PM EDT (#216125) #
The club has a flat bullpen.  The xFIP for the season reflects, in my view, what more or less can be expected.  A bunch of pitchers with FIP/ERA between 3.5 and 4.  But, as you can see, the Rays really aren't much better.  FWIW, I would have taken Marcum out to begin the 9th and inserted Downs; that probably wouldn't have worked, of course.  I felt that Marcum was not missing many bats and did not have his most baffling stuff.  He was fortunate to have escaped with only one run scored.

Incidentally, one of the things that shocks (OK, that probably is a bit strong) from the reliever xFIP list is to see Mariano Rivera at almost 4.  He always has done better than his xFIP, but usually it's around 3.  It finally seems that at age 40, his era of dominance is over (although he is still obviously a very good pitcher).  The Yankees better hope that Joba Chamberlain finds his way, or they may find themselves in third place when the dust settles on the season. 

What frustrated me most last night, though, was the double plays.  I guess you have to tip your hat to Price.
92-93 - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 12:25 PM EDT (#216127) #

No others jump out at me as a closer who their team would want to dump

He would cost a hefty price in prospects because he's amazing and under a team friendly contract for awhile, but Joakim Soria would be somebody to target if you're serious about acquiring a stud closer.

 

John Northey - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 12:38 PM EDT (#216131) #
No matter how rough things seem after 2 wins were turned into losses at least it doesn't touch the depression I'd have if the Jays were playing like Baltimore is.

15-38 is Baltimore's record. A 283 winning percentage. Do you know how bad that is? The Jays at their worst never had a full season at that level - the worst was 1979 at 53-109. Baltimore is playing at a 46-116 pace. Runs for pace: 541 runs against pace: 810. The Jays scored more than that in 1994 (strike year) with the '81 strike year the only one scoring less. 7 times the Jays did allow more than that to score though (1999-2004 except for 2001, 77 and 79). Matt Wieters their young star had an 81 OPS+ before yesterday. They've been playing Garrett Atkins at 1B with a 51 OPS+. Kevin Millwood has a 110 ERA+ and has yet to win a game over 11 starts. Mark Hendrickson has the best ERA+ on their staff (115).

Phew. That has to be frustrating. Two blown 9th inning leads against a team you have to beat to win is frustrating but at least we have some hope.
92-93 - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 02:56 PM EDT (#216137) #
What frustrated me most last night, though, was the double plays.  I guess you have to tip your hat to Price.
  Or his defense...I didn't think Price pitched all that well, he was getting hit pretty hard and got the benefit of tremendous defense and guys thrown out on the basepaths behind him. It seemed like the Jays got off to a good start in every inning.
Paul D - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 03:06 PM EDT (#216138) #

How awesome would it be if Tim Collins could be a lights out closer?  The guy's striking out more than 15 per 9 this year (although walking almost 4 per 9).

Mike Green - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#216139) #
I agree.  Brignac/Rodriguez is a pretty good DP combination; it looks like the Rays dealt with the Kazmir situation very well and they are now reaping the fruits of it. 
Magpie - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 03:20 PM EDT (#216141) #

One of the interesting things about last night's game was Maddon's decision to have all his switch-hitters (Aybar, Zobrist, Navarro) bat right-handed. The idea was to take away Marcum's change-up, which is his weapon against LH batters and also his big strikeout pitch (this season he's had far more Ks against LH batters in just slightly more plate appearances - and of course, LH batters are hitting just .169 against Marcum).

It worked, more or less - Marcum only got 2 Ks on the evening. But he still took a 2-1 lead into the 9th inning, which says a helluva lot about Marcum, to me.

Marcum would have badly, badly wanted the CG last night, and would have very much appreciated his manager giving him the chance. He's never pitched one and every starting pitcher worth his salt wants to be there at the end when everyone is shaking hands. Right now Ricky has bragging rights on him, and these guys are all pretty competitive.

Magpie - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#216143) #

got the benefit of tremendous defense

Longoria turned two absolute shots to LF into 5-4-3 DPs. The one Wells hit was right at him, but how on earth he turned the ball Hill hit into a DP mystifies me. What a player.

cascando - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 04:05 PM EDT (#216147) #

So Galarraga set down all 27, in order.  Then because of a blown call on batter #27, he faced, and retired, batter #28.  I suggest this game go down in history not as the 21st perfect game, but as the first perfecter.

dan gordon - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 04:14 PM EDT (#216148) #
What a terrible shame that Galarraga lost the perfect game on such a bad call.  Selig could have reversed the bad call today, but he said he wouldn't.  That would have made it 3 perfect games within about a month, when there had never been more than 1 in a season before.  Oh well, it goes down in history the same way as the triple play the Blue Jays made in the World Series which didn't count due to a bad call.  I would love to see instant replay used specifically for those force outs at 1B - I can't count the number that I've seen the umps get wrong.  Some, like yesterday's, not even close. 
Mike Green - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#216152) #
Marcum would have badly, badly wanted the CG last night, and would have very much appreciated his manager giving him the chance. He's never pitched one and every starting pitcher worth his salt wants to be there at the end when everyone is shaking hands. Right now Ricky has bragging rights on him, and these guys are all pretty competitive.

Magpie, I think that is generally true, but having watched Marcum's career pretty carefully since he was drafted, I think that he may be an exception.  He says that the only thing that is important to him is that the team gets the W, and I believe him.  What is that Sparky Anderson used to say about Enos Cabell- "he's a WE ballplayer"...in an old strat league, we used to say that he was a "wee Enos".  Sorry.
92-93 - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 05:01 PM EDT (#216154) #
Gallaraga didn't lose anything because he didn't pitch a "perfect game", he pitched an excellent game. Everybody knows that the biggest deciding factor in a perfecto is luck, and it's not only involving your fielders - the umps play a big role in that too. Doc wasn't any less perfect because he got the benefit of some generous strike calls on 3 ball counts, and if Donald had actually been safe and called out nobody would have thought any less of Gallaraga's performance. The stars must align for a "perfect game", and unfortunately for AG they didn't last night. Either way, he will be remembered more for this than had he actually tossed a perfect game - I assume more people know who Harvey Haddix is than, say, Len Barker, obviously excluding Blue Jays fans.
Nick - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 10:39 PM EDT (#216163) #
ESPN reporting that Baltimore will fire Dave Trembley.  On Baseball Tonight, JP Ricciardi says that he knows the perfect guy for the job.  The bench coach for Kansas City, who was able to compile a +.500 record as a manager despite "limited payroll and limited talent."  Of course he is speaking of John Gibbons.  I wonder if JP feels any responsibility for the "limited talent" or if he is still focused on complaining about the "limited payroll."  Old news, I know, but he brought it up.
Magpie - Thursday, June 03 2010 @ 11:37 PM EDT (#216166) #

He says that the only thing that is important to him is that the team gets the W, and I believe him. 

I believe him, too. But I'm sure he'd still love to be out there at the end of the game.

Mike Green - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#216175) #
Sure.  I just think that in Marcum's case, the long-term "motivation benefit" in allowing him to attempt to complete a close game in which he doesn't have his best stuff is pretty negligible.  That may or may not be true for Ricky Romero or Brett Cecil. 
uglyone - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 12:55 PM EDT (#216184) #
I've said it before and I'll say it again......Rommie Lewis might deserve a looksee in more high leverage situations, even closing situations.
Thomas - Friday, June 04 2010 @ 01:10 PM EDT (#216186) #
Dave Trembley has been fired and a former Blue Jay has been named as his interim replacement. Not the one you might be thinking of, as John Gibbons is still on the bench in Kansas City. Juan Samuel has been named as Dave's replacement.

TamRa - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 02:38 AM EDT (#216233) #
No others jump out at me as a closer who their team would want to dump who might recover enough to help in 2010.

Soria has been mentioned and is an obvious target

Heath Bell was said to be available but for a very high price

If Gonzalez came back healthy in Baltimore they will probably flip him since their ship is sinking

Kerry Wood, but who wants him?


ayjackson - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 10:06 AM EDT (#216241) #

It's amazing that I look at the Jays lineup on June 5 and the three worst hitters, and only hitters under 100 OPS+, are Overbay, Lind and Hill.  I think it bodes well for the sustainability of the offense (to a certain extent) that those three could get hot and carry us for a while (and possibly Snider).  I think the bigggest threat to a 86-90 win season is starting pitching tiring in the second half.

 

ayjackson - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 10:21 AM EDT (#216242) #
The Jays are 5th in the majors in hitting (wOBA) and 3rd in the majors in pitching (FIP).
Chuck - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 12:52 PM EDT (#216264) #

I think the bigggest threat to a 86-90 win season is starting pitching tiring in the second half.

Without intending to criticize, I think both Romero and Marcum are pitching over their heads right now. I think they are both very good pitchers, but I would expect a regression-based drop in performance as well as a possible fatigue-induced drop. Further, I'm not sure that the brass wants either to pitch 220 innings, so some forced rest may be introduced as well.

Brett Cecil may have some rest foisted upon him, too.

And the 5th spot in the rotation seems open for all comers.

So I think we'll see a cast of many new (to 2010) characters paraded through the rotation in the second half as well as a regression, and reduced playing time, by the three-headed Marcum/Romero/Cecil beast.  

ayjackson - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 03:13 PM EDT (#216273) #
I see no reason to shut down Romero, but agree that Marcum and Cecil will have to be shut down.  As for regression from the pitching, the whole league needs a good dose of that.
China fan - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 04:40 PM EDT (#216278) #
Ten outs from Hill & Lind so far today.  If the Jays refuse to move Hill down the order, even temporarily, can't they at least find a way to separate Hill and Lind, so they're not such a combined sinkhole at the top of the lineup?  It's hard for the team to get any momentum going with this pair occupying two-thirds of the top of the lineup.
Mike Green - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#216281) #
Maybe today is the day Hill begins his journey past the Mendoza line.  He's drawing walks and hitting the long ball, but if you don't hit .240, it's hard to make that work.

The header in the sports section of my morning newspaper was "Jays crush Yanks".  As far as I am concerned, the writer should be nominated for a Pulitizer.  So concise, and so full of meaning, that it almost brought tears to my eyes.  May I suggest something a little more playful for tomorrow's headline- "Jays allow Yanks to play for 14 before dispatching them again". 

Mike Green - Saturday, June 05 2010 @ 05:31 PM EDT (#216282) #
Pulitzer, not Pulitizer. Sigh.
TDIB 03 June 2010. Rays rally late again. | 38 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.