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What did Brett Cecil do to deserve this?


(My internets work again. Score.)

The Jays open a three-game series in St. Pete tonight. Cecil makes his 2010 big-league debut. Unfortunately, he is going to have to be really good to lead the Jays to victory. His hitters get to deal with "Twitchy" Matt Garza, who's thrown 8 innings in each of his 3 starts, allowed a grand total of 2 earned runs, and won every time.

Even worse, he's put up those numbers without facing the Blue Jays once. He owns Toronto. Garza has made exactly one bad start against the Jays franchise in his career - his debut, as a Twin, in 2006. That was the only time Garza played the Jays for Minnesota. Since being traded to the Rays prior to 2008, Garza has faced the Blue Jays 9 times. Here are Garza's WPA figures for those nine starts: .129 (the lowest), .378, .550, .473, .179, .308, .476, .159, .240. That's a total of 2.982 WPA in nine starts.

If Garza maintained that pace for a full season, let's say 33 starts, he'd have an astronomical 10.60 WPA. For comparison, here are the starting pitcher WPA leaders for the last five seasons: Greinke 6.07, Lee 5.96, Carmona 4.33, Johan Santana 3.85, Clemens 5.29.

If you like the more conventional stats, excluding his debut Garza has a 0.81 ERA, 7.4 innings a start, and a 6-2 record against Toronto. The losses were Shaun Marcum's best start ever, which you might not remember, and David Purcey's best start ever, which you probably do. What the WPA numbers show beyond the conventional ones is that Garza hasn't just pitched fantastically well. He's done it in tight situations. Every single time the Blue Jays have faced Matt Garza, their starting pitcher has brought it. And usually, it hasn't mattered.

Brett Cecil gets to push the rock up the mountain tonight. Rays are a -245 favorite. Game time is 7:05.
23 April 2010: Guaranteed Loss Night | 57 comments | Create New Account
The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they say.
PeteMoss - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 06:03 PM EDT (#214061) #
What is WPA?
brent - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#214062) #

Win Probability Added

Fangraphs.com calculates it. It basically shows how much you helped your team win by pitching or hitting (no defense, but you can find it yourself if there was a great play).

Alex Obal - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 06:16 PM EDT (#214063) #
Win probability added. (What brent said).

Bottom of the 11th. Game is tied, bases are empty, nobody out. Based on historical data, the home team has a 64% chance of winning in this situation. Say pitcher Tim Wakefield gives up a homer to leadoff hitter Aaron Boone. Now, the chance of the home team winning is 100% ('cause they've already won, right?). It's gone up by 36%, and the chance of the road team winning has decreased by 36%. For this play, Boone gets .360 WPA, and Wakefield gets -.360 WPA.

It has warts, obviously. But it's pretty cool as a tool to identify heroes and goats. It massively rewards big clutch plays. It's like RBI on steroids, for hitters and pitchers.

And I would've used Joe Carter and Mitch Williams but Fangraphs doesn't have the WPA stats for playoff games before 1998, far as I can tell.


Thomas - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 07:18 PM EDT (#214064) #
Matt Stairs makes his first start in the field for the San Diego Padres tonight. He's 1-8 in pinch-hit appearances so far this season.
China fan - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 07:37 PM EDT (#214065) #
As for the Guaranteed Loss Night and the unbeatable Garza:  in baseball, youneverknow.
westcoast dude - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#214066) #
Vernon and the Venezuelan Punches say, "That was then and this is now."
scottt - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 08:44 PM EDT (#214067) #
What did Brett Cecil do to deserve this?

Pitch like an ace, obviously.
greenfrog - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 09:19 PM EDT (#214068) #
Is it just me or is Gonzalez playing like a man possessed this year? He's been great so far.
jmoney - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#214069) #
Season isn't even a month old and I'm already sick of Fraser.
AWeb - Friday, April 23 2010 @ 10:37 PM EDT (#214070) #
Well done on the reverse jinxing, Alex. Good win for the Jays, Gregg continues to impress, and Cecil apparently did pretty well too (couldn't see the game on the East Coast). Maybe since the Rays always seemed to give the Jays trouble when they were trying to break through, the Jays can be the spoiler for Tampa this year.
TamRa - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#214071) #
Is it just me or is Gonzalez playing like a man possessed this year? He's been great so far.

No.

He's been great on the road, and sucked eggs at home (except for one game)

Coming into tonight, his OPS in his last 10 games was .734 and if you take out April 15, it was .544 in the other nine home games.


greenfrog - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#214078) #
Hmm...didn't realize that. Still, wouldn't you rather have a SS with a 931 OPS overall and a pronounced home/road split than a SS with a 693 OPS (A-Gon's career line) and a nice, consistent home/road split?
Mike Green - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:22 AM EDT (#214080) #
I thought that the oddsmakers had erred with the +245 line last night.  I think they've done the same with the Red Sox and Lackey +200 vs. Matusz and the Orioles.  There is, I think, a bit of an "established pitcher" pattern, which influences the odds.  Lackey and Garza are good pitchers, but they're not that much better than Cecil and Matusz. 

Against a RHP, I would suggest hitting Snider 8th in front of Buck, so that you don't allow the opposing manager to come on with a LOOGY to face Snider, Lewis, Hill and Lind, as Maddon did last night.  You gotta keep 'em separated...

chips - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:39 AM EDT (#214083) #
Not only was Frasor a nervous Closer. He is a now a nervous set-up man. There were alot of people on this site that did not like the Gregg signing.
scottt - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:50 AM EDT (#214084) #
Even Downs is shaky, but it's still April.

I like having 4 left bats in the lineup. I don't like Snider hitting 9th. That puts him at the mercy of a LOOGY coming out to deal with him and Lewis.

My fear after a game like this one is that Cito will ask Romero to go 8 innings. 

Any update on Tallet?

greenfrog - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#214085) #
I think Frasor will be fine, but I wish the manager would give him a bit more margin for error until he gets on track. Downs was perfectly capable of pitching the eighth last night. I have a lot of respect for Cito, but I wonder whether he will last the season. He seems to make questionable decisions on a nightly basis.
TamRa - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#214086) #
I was one of them, though I'm preparing myself to eat crow. one factor that John Lott pointed out on Twitter:

In 2009 Gregg's first half ERA was 3.38 and in the second half it was 6.75

In the first half he gave up one homer every 26.2 AB and in the second half a homer ever 15.1

Looking at the game log, you can even extend that until the end of july. His ERA on July 31 was 3.35, his ERA for the rest of the season was 7.97

Maybe Alex will sell high? Or given his two previous seasons were pretty good maybe that's his actual level of play, and the two bad months were a fluke?

Still, i'm aboard the youth movement train. I'd rather our closer over the next few years be someone like Roenicke or whoever than an older guy like Gregg, even if that's just an emotional reaction.




TamRa - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:59 AM EDT (#214087) #
Any update on Tallet?

He had an MRI or something yesterday that showed no structural damage but he's been told not to throw anything for a week. I think it will be 2-3 weeks at a minimum best case scenario before he's back.

scottt - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 02:30 PM EDT (#214098) #
Tallet threw about 55 innings in the pen 3 years in a row before throwing 160 last year.
I thought he was a bit old for that.

The Jays are probably a better team with him as a long man in the pen, but I still like the guy.

So, Navarro bumped the ump and got thrown out on a pitch that was properly called? And after Garza was yanked?

Where's that site that has the analysis of all the pitches?

Gerry - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#214100) #

With all the scribes in Dunedin to see Hechavarria there were several updates on injuries.

Jesse Litsch pitched in an extended spring training game this week.  He has three more of those scheduled before he appears in a regular minor league game in the middle of May.  He then would be on track to join the Jays by mid-June if there is a spot for him.

Marc Rzepczynski was pitching batting practice.  Zep was injured about three and a half weeks ago and he was supposed to be out for 4-6 weeks so he is also close to appearing in a regular minor league game.  The Star also noted that Scott Richmond and Shawn Hill pitched in the bullpen.  It was Richmond's third time throwing off a mound since he went on the DL so he is probably further behind Litsch and Zep.

scottt - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#214102) #
Thanks Gerry.

Alex Obal - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 04:12 PM EDT (#214103) #
There is, I think, a bit of an "established pitcher" pattern, which influences the odds.

This was basically going to be the last line of the article (maybe stated a bit more clearly here). Then I thought better of it.
scottt - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 08:07 PM EDT (#214106) #
Base loaded 2 outs, Choate against Lewis. Man, this screams for Ruiz.



ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 08:41 PM EDT (#214107) #
Downs was perfectly capable of pitching the eighth last night

Course, getting anybody out is a different matter.
scottt - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 08:56 PM EDT (#214108) #
It's not like Janssen turned out any better. Sigh.

Frasor still looks like the best option to setup right now.



ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#214109) #
I think Downs is a great pitcher but it's pretty obvious Cito should have started the 8th with Casey Janssen Jeremy Accardo Jason Frasor.
Spifficus - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 09:12 PM EDT (#214110) #

Frasor still looks like the best option to setup right now.

Ok, I'll ask - Is this a serious statement, or is this just a polite heckling after a frustrating half-inning? If serious... Why?

Magpie - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#214111) #
Nights like this remind you why all these guys failed to make it as starters. Grumble, grumble...
ComebyDeanChance - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 09:28 PM EDT (#214112) #
Nights like this remind you why all these guys failed to make it as starters. Grumble, grumble...

Brought back warm reminiscences about a night sitting in Fenway watching Jeff Tam throw 17 straight balls to blow a lead.
Magpie - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 09:50 PM EDT (#214113) #
What the hell. I suppose that if your bullpen absolutely insists on coughing up 7 runs, it's best if they do it all at once. Meanwhile... Ricky!
92-93 - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 10:11 PM EDT (#214114) #

I don't understand having Frasor pitch the 8th last night at all. If he's pitching poorly enough to be removed from the closer's role (and it's amusing to me how Frasor's confidence doesn't matter when it comes to stripping him of his job a week into the season), he has zero business being brought in to face the 3-4-5 of Tampa's lineup.

Base loaded 2 outs, Choate against Lewis. Man, this screams for Ruiz.

There is no reason for Ruiz to be on the roster if he won't be used to PH in situations like that one and if Cito has no faith in the Lind/Snider corner look. Might as well carry Raul Chavez or somebody like Kyle Phillips so you can have an emergency C on the team, and give Ruiz a chance to play for another team or if you're not interested in that then keep his bat ready for an injury by playing him every day in Vegas.

greenfrog - Saturday, April 24 2010 @ 11:47 PM EDT (#214115) #
To be fair to Cito, Lewis was 2 for 2 against lefties in his handful of games as a Blue Jay, although he's been significantly better against RHP in his career. It's kind of a catch-22: since Ruiz never plays, you wonder how effective he would be coming off the bench in a key situation.

What a great game for Romero. (I wonder if Rickey Henderson is getting worried about there potentially being a new first-name-only "Ricky" in baseball. At least Romero doesn't refer to himself in the third person in interviews.)
scottt - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:51 AM EDT (#214116) #
To be fair to Cito, Lewis was 2 for 2 against lefties in his handful of games as a Blue Jay, although he's been significantly better against RHP in his career.

Nevermind that Choate has retired only 1 of the 8 right handed batter he's faced this year.

Frasor gives up one run every other inning, that still  leaves you with a tied game. 
I don't like the idea or replacing a lefty with a lefty to face a right handed batter when the rest of pen is right handed.
I don't understand the fixation with having one guy for the 8th, one guy for the 9th and the rest of the pen not being used.



Spifficus - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 04:39 AM EDT (#214121) #
Frasor gives up one run every other inning, that still leaves you with a tied game.

And Downs gives up runs even less often. He just couldn't hit his spots today. That happens. Unless you're arguing that Frasor just let up his run the day before, in which case, he's due for his scoreless outing. By that logic, Choate was due to get a RH hitter out... Kidding.

As for The setup guy, Frasor has pitched in the 8th 3 times (6 in the 9th, which is why that's low), Downs 4 times, Janssen 4 times and Camp twice. It seems that Gaston's being pretty egalitarian, letting the pitchers find their roles. If / when someone steps up, they'll get the majority of the time. Downs is as good of a choice as any - he hasn't experienced any real platoon disadvantage over the past 3 years - he's good vs righties and lefties. If you're talking about making a move for every last platoon advantage, well, I agree with the theory that if you make enough pitching changes you'll eventually find the pitcher that'll lose you the game that night.

bpoz - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 09:05 AM EDT (#214123) #
I suffered through the early 80's before Henke. Joey McLaughlin, Roy Lee Jackson, Brian Clarke? and one other guy blew many 3 run leads. There was a stretch where it happened 4-6? games in a row. Sooo Painful !!
scottt - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#214125) #
This is the same bullpen who has been a strength over the last few years, plus Gregg who has been excellent.
It's frustrating.

Then of course, you have Baltimore where Matusz is 2-0 and the rest of the pitching staff 0-16. Ouch.

electric carrot - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:05 PM EDT (#214126) #
I see this game today and the next 3 against the Red Sox as being a real test for what kind of Blue Jay team we are dealing with this year.  If we can win today against Price (take 2 out of 3 against a really good, hot team) and then play well enough to win two against the Red Sox I'm going to go on record to say that this team's record is not an illusion and we could be in the wildcard hunt till late summer early fall.  If not, low 70 wins and 4th place.

Thomas - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#214127) #
Today's lineup:
In: Ruiz, McCoy, McDonald
Out: Overbay, Lewis, Snider
China fan - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:42 PM EDT (#214128) #
This will be a very interesting test of the theory that Ruiz can play a perfectly adequate 1B.   And an equally interesting test of the theory that 1B, rather than DH, is the place to get Ruiz some playing time. 
scottt - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:51 PM EDT (#214129) #
3 platoons now? Interesting. Also of note, Overbay gets benched the day after he has a homerun, a single, a stolen base, an intentional walk and no strike out.



92-93 - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 01:57 PM EDT (#214130) #

Before yesterday's game, Lind was in a little 1 for 14 slump and was looking a little timid at the plate. It's a very encouraging sign that he was able to take a changeup on the outer half of the plate out to LF for a HR; Ashby pointed out directly prior to the HR that Lind staying back on the ball and taking it the other way is the indication he's going good. This offense needs him to duplicate that 2009 success to have any chance at being a winning ballclub.

Cecil relied pretty heavily on the changeup in Friday's game, and supposedly it's because he sliced his hand in spring training and was forced to only throw fastballs and changeups and ditch his curveball. Both Cito and Brett this injury was the best thing to ever happen to him because it helped him build confidence in a secondary pitch he may not have been as comfortable with, and the early PitchFX data between seasons certainly shows this. When he was drafted everybody said the slider was already MLB ready and could dominate LHB but that he'd need to develop more pitches to become a starter that could keep RHB off balance as well. Cecil doesn't have that dominating fastball so his ability to locate curveballs and changeups will be critical to the type of success he can have, and here's hoping that the early changeup work pays off and he keeps his spot in the rotation for all of 2010, showing the Jays they have mid-rotation starter for years to come.

92-93 - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:11 PM EDT (#214132) #

Overbay gets benched the day after he has a homerun, a single, a stolen base, an intentional walk and no strike out.

I cringe reading this. Price is a dominating LHP and Overbay has started every game this year; this is smartly giving your guy a day off, not benching him.

This will be a very interesting test of the theory that Ruiz can play a perfectly adequate 1B.   And an equally interesting test of the theory that 1B, rather than DH, is the place to get Ruiz some playing time.

Once the Jays acquired Lewis I'm not sure there's an argument to be made that Ruiz deserves regular ABs vs. RHP, because that would mean somebody from Overbay/Snider/Lind/Lewis is losing those ABs. His role should be the team's DH vs. LHP with JB and EE handling the infield corners in the defensive alignment the coaching staff deems most optimal, and he should be allowed to PH for Lewis, JMac, McCoy, and the catchers, guys who are used to that sort of thing and don't lose confidence because of it.

Spifficus - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:21 PM EDT (#214133) #

3 platoons now? Interesting. Also of note, Overbay gets benched the day after he has a homerun, a single, a stolen base, an intentional walk and no strike out.

It's not a platoon, unless it's a Price-esque (read: nasty lefty) / Everybody Else platoon.

China fan - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#214136) #
92-93,  I tend to agree with you on how Ruiz should be used.  I was only alluding to the theory that some people espouse, that Ruiz can be an adequate 1B defensively.  We'll get a slightly better idea of whether that theory has any validity after today.
westcoast dude - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#214137) #
Jose Molina has been impressive on the throwout with three putouts, Buck is clearly undeserving of the lion's share of playing time.
scottt - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:47 PM EDT (#214139) #
Price is a dominating LHP and Overbay has started every game this year; this is smartly giving your guy a day off, not benching him.

I don't disagree with anything. I'm just noting the irony. Overbay is currently 0-for-16 against lefties this year.
92-93 - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#214140) #
Jose Molina....WOW. 5 BBs and Morrow hasn't been in trouble yet once, I sure hope he's footing the bill at dinner tonight.
scottt - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 02:52 PM EDT (#214141) #
Jose Molina has been impressive on the throwout with three putouts, Buck is clearly undeserving of the lion's share of playing time.

Only against speedy teams. Buck has been calling an effective game so far, with the starting rotation anyway.
ZekeBella - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 05:38 PM EDT (#214148) #
Scott Downs has always been an effective situational lefty i.e, bring him in against a tough lefty slugger in the 7th or 8th and then get him out of there. Cito doesn't seem to grasp this concept.. He expects Downs to deal with an entire inning including 2 or 3 straight RH hitters. This does not work with a situational lefty.  Cito is still lacking in on-field management ability especially in handling his pitchers. The Downs situation is just too obvious and he is paying for it.
Spifficus - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 06:00 PM EDT (#214149) #

Scott Downs has always been an effective situational lefty i.e, bring him in against a tough lefty slugger in the 7th or 8th and then get him out of there. Cito doesn't seem to grasp this concept.. He expects Downs to deal with an entire inning including 2 or 3 straight RH hitters. This does not work with a situational lefty. Cito is still lacking in on-field management ability especially in handling his pitchers. The Downs situation is just too obvious and he is paying for it.

Unfortunately, this isn't really the case. His platoon split since becoming a full-time reliever don't really indicate a platoon split (vs LH, .215/.281/.313, vs RH, .236/.312/.319). In a sample size nine times larger than the one game these reactions are based on, Downs has a vLH/vRH split of .250/.400/.750 vs .333/.333/.389.

He isn't a situational lefty. He has had a 3 year run of quality setup work. Gaston understands this, and used him accordingly. Sometimes it's not going to work - that's baseball. There are going to be plenty of reasons to complain about Gaston throughout the year; we don't need to beat him up over the decisions he gets right.

Chuck - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 06:10 PM EDT (#214150) #

He expects Downs to deal with an entire inning including 2 or 3 straight RH hitters.

Over the 175 innings Downs pitched from 2007-2009, his LHB/RHB OPS splits have been:
2007: 548/639
2008: 540/625
2009: 786/643

Over this period, he has certainly shown that he is more than a mere LOOGY.

I'm happy to join you in criticizing many of Gaston's decisions (or, more frequently, non-decisions), but I can't agree that this particular instance warrants it.

Assuming that Downs is indeed healthy, I can see the argument for having him face Longoria/Pena/Upton. Neither Longoria nor Upton have extreme career platoon splits (Longoria: 875/889, Upton 774/760) whereas Pena does (761/900). Downs' lefthandedness was primarily targetted at Pena, with no legitimate reason to worry about it against Longoria and Upton.

Now, it may be argued that Downs is still showing the effects of his injury from last season and is, over all, not what he once was. Prior to going on the DL last season in June, his ERA was 1.98 (in about 27 innings). Upon returning from the DL, his ERA was 4.66 (in about 18 innings). Perhaps the Downs we are seeing is this wobblier version (and perhaps these ERA splits are simply the result of small samples and the vagaries of randomness).

Chuck - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#214151) #
Damn you Spifficus.
Spifficus - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 06:26 PM EDT (#214152) #
Heh. Most of the damage last year was because he came back too soon and needed more DL time. He was much better when he came back Aug 25th. This year, he was fine up until the last outing when neither he nor Janssen could throw strikes. Since that hasn't been a problem before this, I'm not worrying about it unless he starts to show it as a trend.
brent - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 07:12 PM EDT (#214153) #
I know other broadcasters get more grief, but Jack Armstrong (at the Fan) drives me nuts. He interviews Beeston by starting off with a rambling question that lasts 1 minute 20 seconds. That's just the time it took to ask the question. Link
Magpie - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#214154) #
There are going to be plenty of reasons to complain about Gaston throughout the year; we don't need to beat him up over the decisions he gets right.

Good luck with that.
Spifficus - Sunday, April 25 2010 @ 07:34 PM EDT (#214155) #
Hey, a guy can dream.
Timbuck2 - Monday, April 26 2010 @ 03:04 PM EDT (#214205) #
With looking after my kids that day I didn't get to watch much of the game but I did happen to see some (including the ill-fated inning in question) and it seemed to me that between Morrow, Downs and Jansen (without checking pitchFX data) that the ump was squeezing the pitchers strike zone a little bit.  Borderline pitches weren't being given the benefit of the doubt very often.

Again - just my impression based on the little that I saw.

23 April 2010: Guaranteed Loss Night | 57 comments | Create New Account
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