Well, the Seattle Mariners hope the old board-game-maker's slogan holds true on the ballfield, too. The M's acquired embattled CF Milton Bradley from the Cubs today in exchange for nearly-as-embattled SP Carlos Silva plus $9 million.
Thoughts?
Win for Seattle. I'm not sure how Silva managed to post 1.5 WAR in 2008 with an ERA of 6.46, but I don't see him as above replacement level, so Seattle got a decent asset for nothing.
Seattle got an expensive something for an expensive nothing. Seems like a no-brainer victory.
I imagine Bradley gets slotted into the 2-hole, which is exactly what a team with serious OBP issues needs. Health permitting, I imagine he'll be the starting LF against RHP and platoon with Griffey at DH against LHP.
Silva is latin for woods, I believe, and Jim Hendry certainly seems like a GM lost in the woods. Hard to believe the Cubs won their division in 2008 and seemed poised to be strong for a while. Hard to get worked up over the team these days.
If the Mariners put in 9 M too, that means they are paying 14.5 M/year for Bradley for two years. Seems steep and mostly a bad idea. On the other hand, I have no idea what Silva contract is so perhaps you just need to pay the cheese to make it all go away.
I suspect that the Jays will be doing something like this with Wells in a few years.
I suspect that the Jays will be doing something like this with Wells in a few years.
I always thought that Milton Bradley should be in the same outfield as Dave Parker and his brother.
The Mariners have basically upgraded Silva to Bradley for $6M for two years.
Silva was owed $25M. Bradley was owed $22M. The Mariners are sending $9M to the Cubs. The Mariners are thus now paying $31M instead of $25M. The Cubs are now paying $16M instead of $22M.
If the Mariners put in 9 M too, that means they are paying 14.5 M/year for Bradley for two years. Seems steep and mostly a bad idea. On the other hand, I have no idea what Silva contract is so perhaps you just need to pay the cheese to make it all go away.
Yeah, that Silva contract part is important, and your analysis really isn't complete without it, alsiem. Silva makes 11.5mil each of the next 2 years, so Seattle is paying 3mil/year for the upgrade from Silva to Bradley, which is an absolute steal.
Yeah, that Silva contract part is important, and your analysis really isn't complete without it, alsiem. Silva makes 11.5mil each of the next 2 years, so Seattle is paying 3mil/year for the upgrade from Silva to Bradley, which is an absolute steal.
chuck are you forgetting ichiro and figgins?
right now Bradley might be the best 3-hole option on the team (because I'm assuming that no manager will be able to resist (ichiro & figgins 1 &2 .)) But I really doubt anyone would have him clog the bases and bat ichiro 3rd (would he finally stop trying to hit for average and hit 20+ hrs if he did?)
right now Bradley might be the best 3-hole option on the team (because I'm assuming that no manager will be able to resist (ichiro & figgins 1 &2 .)) But I really doubt anyone would have him clog the bases and bat ichiro 3rd (would he finally stop trying to hit for average and hit 20+ hrs if he did?)
would he finally stop trying to hit for average and hit 20+ hrs if he did?
20? Ichiro would obviously hit at least 40 if he wanted to.
20? Ichiro would obviously hit at least 40 if he wanted to.
Good trade for Seattle pending Unkle Miltie's ability to stay sane. But not terrible for the Cubs -- moving to the NL, and to a good (not great) team, he might could win 14-16 games in '10.
chuck are you forgetting ichiro and figgins?
Yes, I forgot entirely about Figgins. I agree that Bradley should probably slot in as the #3 hitter.
Really good deal for the Mariners, as the astute M's braintrust upgraded their offense at a very good price and with very little risk. They still have budget room for a 1B, even.
Bradley needs to be slotted on a psychiatrist's couch.
Random thought: with Silva owed $25M, if you subtract the $9M the Mariners threw in, that's $16M. Now, if the Cubs throw in, say $6M on top, they might be able to trade Silva to someone, who would then owe him only $10M/2 years or $5M/year. Not great, given his stats, but not a horrible price, given that he had success a few years ago, someone might be willing to take a flyer on him at that price. Then, the Cubs would have been able to dump Milton Bradley for only $6M - not a bad deal for them either..
Tango has been busy. Good on him.
The Mariners are aiming to compete in 2010, and with the Angels likely to be off some, they've picked the right time.
The Mariners are aiming to compete in 2010, and with the Angels likely to be off some, they've picked the right time.
Next time someone says you need 3-5 years to rebuild just point out the Mariners.
The Mariners were an awful baseball team in 2008 that led to the firing of Bill Basavi. Jack Zduriencik took over a team that had recently traded its 2 best prospects (Tillman and Jones) and the roster was full of bad contracts (Bedard, Johjima, Washburn, Silva, Batista). The rebuilding phase only lasted 1 season, a season in which they played meaningful baseball in the summer and ended up with 85 wins. With the additions of veteran players like Lee, Figgins, and Bradley, it's clear they are pushing to make the playoffs next season.
The Mariners were an awful baseball team in 2008 that led to the firing of Bill Basavi. Jack Zduriencik took over a team that had recently traded its 2 best prospects (Tillman and Jones) and the roster was full of bad contracts (Bedard, Johjima, Washburn, Silva, Batista). The rebuilding phase only lasted 1 season, a season in which they played meaningful baseball in the summer and ended up with 85 wins. With the additions of veteran players like Lee, Figgins, and Bradley, it's clear they are pushing to make the playoffs next season.
Rosenthal reported that Tango was consulting for Anthopoulus. Is he still working for the M's too?
Here's an excellent BA podcast on The Trade. Of particular interest, was JJ Cooper and John Manuel talking about the Jays' new scouting system for about 10 minutes.
Of course, Silva might turn back into an average starting pitcher, and Milton Bradley might injure himself punching out the batboy.
Tango said on his blog that he advises both teams (M's and J's) but obviously there certain things he can't share with each team.
Good trade for Seattle pending Unkle Miltie's ability to stay sane.
And what, exactly, are the chances of that? Slim? None?
And what, exactly, are the chances of that? Slim? None?
"Next time someone says you need 3-5 years to rebuild just point out the Mariners."
The Mariners would not be contenders in the AL East in 2010. They would be more like the Blue Jays of 2006-08. Good, but not good enough.
The Mariners would not be contenders in the AL East in 2010. They would be more like the Blue Jays of 2006-08. Good, but not good enough.
It's possible to be both productive and insane. I think history provides many examples. Besides, we didn't hear about any disruptions (or eruptions) from Milton while he was having that near-historical year (2008) in Texas, did we?
Win for Seattle. I'm not sure how Silva managed to post 1.5 WAR in 2008 with an ERA of 6.46, but I don't see him as above replacement level, so Seattle got a decent asset for nothing.
If you think this was a trade of 'assets', unless you mean toxic ones you couldn't be more wrong. The Cubs couldn't give Bradley away. He is the biggest jerk in baseball, and proved it immediately after the Cubs wasted a $30 million contract on him, only to have to suspend him in September for the rest of the season. For his 12 homeruns and 40 rbi's, the Cubs got a guy who refused to pinch-hit, took himself out of games, insulted the fans, and started stupid battles with the fans, the media, PInella and fellow players. Everyone from the fans to the players couldn't wait to see his backside on the way out.
,
If anyone in baseball was crazy enough to take Milton Bradley for nothing, the Cubs would have gone out and bought lottery tickets. Instead, the cost of Bradley to them is having to take on Silva's contract after his 6 something era. Silva has $25 million left, more than Bradley, which is why Seattle is sending money. I listened on mlb radio yesterday and every commentator thinks the Cubs got by far the long end of the stick in this deal. With Silva at least, you're pouring money down a drain for someone who may make a 5th starter in the NL. With Bradley, you've got someone who'll make the entire organization and city hold their noses until he's run out of Seattle like he has been everywhere else he played. Here's Keith Olbermann on the trade.
http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/
They're dancing in the streets of Chicago. I know it's hard to move up from being one of the worst offensive teams in the league, but this sure isn't how you do it.
If you think this was a trade of 'assets', unless you mean toxic ones you couldn't be more wrong. The Cubs couldn't give Bradley away. He is the biggest jerk in baseball, and proved it immediately after the Cubs wasted a $30 million contract on him, only to have to suspend him in September for the rest of the season. For his 12 homeruns and 40 rbi's, the Cubs got a guy who refused to pinch-hit, took himself out of games, insulted the fans, and started stupid battles with the fans, the media, PInella and fellow players. Everyone from the fans to the players couldn't wait to see his backside on the way out.
,
If anyone in baseball was crazy enough to take Milton Bradley for nothing, the Cubs would have gone out and bought lottery tickets. Instead, the cost of Bradley to them is having to take on Silva's contract after his 6 something era. Silva has $25 million left, more than Bradley, which is why Seattle is sending money. I listened on mlb radio yesterday and every commentator thinks the Cubs got by far the long end of the stick in this deal. With Silva at least, you're pouring money down a drain for someone who may make a 5th starter in the NL. With Bradley, you've got someone who'll make the entire organization and city hold their noses until he's run out of Seattle like he has been everywhere else he played. Here's Keith Olbermann on the trade.
http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/
They're dancing in the streets of Chicago. I know it's hard to move up from being one of the worst offensive teams in the league, but this sure isn't how you do it.
I don't know
It worked out well for Cleveland, Texas and San Diego (until the implosion...but hey, he still played a crucial role in them making that game 163 that season)
Didn't work out so well for the Dodgers or the Cubs.
Seems like the definition of a gamble to me.
Carlos Silva on the other hand had one good season 5 years ago, mostly because he managed to walk 7 hitters non-intentionally all season. Seems like gambling on a guy who's been absolutely terrible for a while now, and stikes out under 4 per 9 is the definition of....I don't know. Something really bad though.
They're dancing in the streets of Chicago. I know it's hard to move up
from being one of the worst offensive teams in the league, but this
sure isn't how you do it.
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. The Cubs fan at Primer absolutely hate this deal.
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. The Cubs fan at Primer absolutely hate this deal.
Exactly, ask Cubs fans in August how they feel about paying Silva 10 mil for two years and if they dance a jig.
I think Bradley was something like 14th on the list of reasons the Cubs only won 83 games this year.
Soto and Soriano turned into absolute nothings, Aramis was missed half the season and Theriot and Fontenot got almost 200 games between the two of them.
The pitching was excellent, except for Gregg closing too many games.
Silva was an absolute sunk cost so if Bradley acts out the Mariners can just release him and be no worse off then they were with Silva on the roster. If Bradley hits it's a nice bonus. I guess Chicago fans can be glad that they don't have to deal with Bradley anymore, but it's not like they got anything for him. They are just wasting the same money on a different player.
if Bradley acts out the Mariners can just release him and be no worse off
Bradley has $22 million remaining on his contract. This isn't the NFL. If it were, Rogers would be happy and Vernon Wells out more than $100 mil.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2010540975_shocker_mariners_trading_carlo.html
Bradley has $22 million remaining on his contract. This isn't the NFL. If it were, Rogers would be happy and Vernon Wells out more than $100 mil.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/thehotstoneleague/2010540975_shocker_mariners_trading_carlo.html
The Mariners would not be contenders in the AL East in 2010. They would
be more like the Blue Jays of 2006-08. Good, but not good enough.
I'm not sure I agree with this. While the Jays have had good fielding clubs, they never had 2 elite starters like Felix and Lee. Adding another slugger would even make the M's more interesting than they already are.
I'm not sure I agree with this. While the Jays have had good fielding clubs, they never had 2 elite starters like Felix and Lee. Adding another slugger would even make the M's more interesting than they already are.
Adding another slugger
Adding another slugger would raise their total to 1.
A slugger is exactly what the M's need. With Figgins, Ichiro and Bradley, they need a big bopper to move along all those good OBPs.
Bradley has $22 million remaining on his contract. This isn't the NFL.
If it were, Rogers would be happy and Vernon Wells out more than $100
mil.
Yeah no kidding but since they were paying the 12th man on their pitching staff the same money they were probably thinking about giving him the BJ Ryan sendoff anyway. Either way the money is wasted, the chance that Bradley plays decently is much higher then Silva.
Yeah no kidding but since they were paying the 12th man on their pitching staff the same money they were probably thinking about giving him the BJ Ryan sendoff anyway. Either way the money is wasted, the chance that Bradley plays decently is much higher then Silva.
At the worst, the Cubs can't keep Silva and his ERA on the roster and cut him, thereby eating $16m. If they had just cut Bradley, they would have eating $21m. I wonder what type of player/prospect they could have gotten back if they offered to pay $16m of Bradley's $21m salary?