Batter's Box Interactive Magazine - The Wisdom of Crowds

As the 2009 season winds down to its depressing conclusion the only possible cure is to focus on 2010 and look for positive signs. It goes without saying that the Jays need to do what we, the knowledgable fans, think they should do. So let's try and see if Batters Box can use the wisdom of our crowd to come up with a prioritized to-do list for the 2010 team.

All of you are invited to submit your top five ideas for improving the 2010 team. The results will be tabulated and we will come up with our top to-do items for JP or the new GM. In order to get similar to-do's that can be tabulated simple and comparable to-do's are required. Here are the ground rules:

1. Submit your top five to-do's in order
2. Points will be awarded 5-4-3-2-1 so the order does matter
3. This is limited to on-field suggestions only, so no to-do's relating to JP Ricciardi, Cito Gaston or the coaches
4. Your to-do's should only have the names of Blue Jay personnel. If we get into specific trade suggestions there will be no ability to tabulate the results.
5. Your to-do's will most likely start with the following: "trade"; "release"; "re-sign" or "acquire".
6. Assume the budget is similar to 2009's. There is no reason to believe it will be higher and if it is assumed it will be higher all the suggestions will be to sign a bunch of free-agents.
7. Be realistic. If one of your suggestions is to trade Brian Tallet and you expect to acquire a starting top-prospect shortstop in return you will be disappointed. It takes talent or dollars to bring in talent and the Jays are short dollars and none too rich in tradable talent, unless you think the Jays should trade young pitching which does have value.
8. When #4 and #5 are combined it means if you think the Jays should trade Roy Halladay your to-do's could be "trade Roy Halladay" and as a separate to-do "acquire a shortstop". The word acquire is used as the GM might be able to get his #1 need through a trade and his #2 through signing a free-agent or vice-versa. By saying "acquire" the flexibility of acquiring the player will be left to the GM but, as the results are tabulated, the wisdom of our crowd to determine where the need is will be left intact. Similarly you can say "re-sign Marco Scutaro" but if you think the shortstop should be someone else you would say "acquire a shortstop".

So have at it bauxites, what would you do? To start things off I will post my five below.

Posted by Gerry on Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 10:35 AM EDT.

The Wisdom of Crowds - Blue Jay Edition | 69 comments | Create New Account

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Gerry - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 10:25 AM EDT (#206320) #

My top five:

1. Trade Roy Halladay

2. Acquire a shortstop

3. Acquire a centre fielder

4. Acquire a third baseman

5. Trade Lyle Overbay

Much as I love Roy the Jays are not going to win next year and Roy will be gone after that so let's get something for him to help the rebuilding. I would also like the team to get more athletic. Today we have Lyle Overbay, Adam Lind, Travis Snider, Randy Ruiz ( and possibly Brian Dopirak) taking up the OF corners, DH and 1B spots. I think the team needs more athleticism, speed and better defense, so Overbay is the logical trade candidate so we can take either or both of Lind and Snider out of the outfield. I also would move Wells to right field and bring in a centre fielder. Wells is slowing down and becoming below average in centre and he is not going to get better given his body type.

wdc - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 11:26 AM EDT (#206321) #

My top 5

1. Resign Roy Halladay
2. Resign Marco Scutaro
3. After Halladay is resigned, fire JP and Cito
4. Acquire an experienced, credible General Manager who will take a fresh look at the team
5. Put Hill in the 3 spot, Lind in the 4 spot, and Snider in the 5 spot and leave them there.

Magpie - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#206323) #

Dunno yet. Have to consider the situation more deeply. Waiting for it all to end first.

But I'll tell you this - someone is going to be able to offer Marco Scutaro quite a bit more money than the Jays will feel comfortable spending. And Scutaro - who's never made any big money from baseball and is going to be 34 next month - would have to be insane not to take the best offer. His wife would probably divorce him for starters....

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 12:04 PM EDT (#206324) #

The key for the club is the 3-4 year plan, not the 1 year plan. The club has a number of likely long-term needs, but the order in which they are filled is not particularly important. To give an example, let's say that the club is trading Roy Halladay and has two offers, one with a shortstop at its core and the other with a centerfielder. What is important is the quality of the players and the reasonable projection about the player's value and cost 3-4 years from now. So, I happen to think that it is more likely that one of Pastornicky or Jackson will be a useful major leaguer in 3 years than any of the centerfielder prospects, but if faced with two offers, one for a shortstop and one for a centerfielder, I would choose the better (in the sense I have described) player rather than the centerfielder.

Budgetary considerations are key. If you have a firm commitment to spend in the top half of payrolls over a period of years, you would choose one course. If you are going the "bottom" route, you would choose another course. So, here are two lists, one for each course.

High budget list

1. Trade or sign Halladay long-term (depending on Halladay's demands)
2. Sign Snider long-term (if reasonable terms)
3. Sign Lind long-term (if reasonable terms)
4. Acquire centerfielder
5. Acquire third baseman prospect

You need to have some kind of shortstop for 2010, but if trading Halladay doesn't result in a long-term shortstop, go cheap for an Adam Everett type (2008 version of Adam Everett signed by Minnesota, as opposed to the current one). If Scutaro's demands are $4-$5 million, it's probably worth it to spend a few extra bucks.

Low Budget list (aka "Go Marlin")

1. Trade Halladay
2. Trade Lind
3. Acquire centerfielder
4. Acquire third base prospect
5. Acquire catcher or catching prospect

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 12:08 PM EDT (#206325) #

What is important is not the budget for 2010, but what it will be in 2013-15. If it's going to be $80 million on average, you can use "Go Marlin" safely. If it's going to be $100 million plus, you can choose high-budget.

Denoit - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 12:19 PM EDT (#206326) #

These are my moves considering I dont think there is any chance they compete next year no matter what they do. Rebuild is my Option 1. Trade Roy Halladay 2. Trade Lyle Overbay 3. Resign Barajas (Underrated and will work well with young pitchers) 4. Sign Right Feilder (Vernon can still play center) 5. Sign Bench Players I let Scutaro leave for first round picks. Either let Angel Sanchez have a chance to play SS or bring McDonald back. Inglett is a candidate to come off the bench. Lots of Pitching Dopirak gets a chance to play First in Spring Training. Sign alternate Options if none aquired in a trade.

Forkball - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 12:53 PM EDT (#206327) #

What is important is not the budget for 2010, but what it will be in 2013-15

The budget's always going to change from where you thought it would be in previous years, but the wide change in payrolls is part of the current problem. The Jays tore things down, then decided to open up their wallets a few years later when Burnett, Ryan, Thomas, Wells, and Rios were signed. Then this past year they were torn back down and now you're stuck with a bad team with no flexibility (which gets worse now that Wells' backloaded contract is about to really kick in).

From the sounds of it, the possibility exists that payroll might be expanded significantly again. The problem with that is that the player pool in free agency is limited, and you're signing players (generally) on the downside of their career. Unless you're trading for players that other teams are dumping to free up money (Cliff Lee) it's going to be tough to have success that way.

Forkball - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 01:01 PM EDT (#206329) #

Anyway, to answer the question:

Extend Halladay
Re-sign Scuturo (actually, offer arbitration and re-sign if less than 2 years, let him go otherwise)
Acquire 3B
Acquire CF (with an emphasis on D)
Acquire C

Frank Markotich - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 01:07 PM EDT (#206330) #

High Budget Option (not necessarily high in 2010, but money available as needed):

1. Trade Halladay

2. Acquire SS

3. Acquire CF

4. Sign Lind

5. Acquire C

Low Budget Option:

1. Irrelevant

2. Doesn't matter

3. Who cares

4. What's the difference

5. Is it hockey season yet?

Brian W - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 01:14 PM EDT (#206331) #

1. Trade Halladay
2. Offer Scutaro arbitration (hope he declines)
3. Trade Overbay
4. Acquire SS
5. Acquire CF (Wells moves to RF)

John Northey - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 01:17 PM EDT (#206332) #

hmm.... if you assume the budget is as is or getting worse (as many indicate it could be) then a house cleaning is in order.

Don't trade Halladay. Why? One solid starter can save the arms of the pen and rotation (less temptation to ignore pitch limits and the like). His $15 mil will pay for itself if it saves injuries later. If needed you can trade mid-season for a batch of prospects or hold for the 2 draft picks.
Brian Tallet is very much overkill for swingman now with the kids coming along as are Shawn Camp and Scott Downs. Pitching is for the kids with a few AAAA guys signed for AAA duty as backups. Again, going nowhere might as well use the kids and save the cash. Remember, Downs was a guy who never had an ERA+ over 90 before coming here, Tallet was going nowhere as was Camp so no need to worry about finding more.
Do NOT resign Scutaro or Barajas (or Millar or Bautista or McDonald) - offer arbitration just to get the draft picks. If stuck with them then trade them. Both are wrong side of 30 and very, very unlikely to be any better than this season or even at this seasons level. Save the cash.
Find a taker for Overbay - time to move Lind to 1B and get it over with, or to give others a shot at the position (Brian Dopirak or, if he gets it going early on, David Cooper) as a 32 (33 in 2010) year old 1B isn't going to be here for any future glory years.
Find either quality prospects or sign a batch of AAAA guys to fill all holes. If the guys needing to be dumped can't get anyone, just live with the AAAA's until the kids develop. If they don't develop we'll just be here complaining about the cash blown on another 3rd/4th/5th place finish.

#5 is really a universal one - has to be done no matter what. But steps #1-4, especially #1-3, are vital imo. Overbay being here or not is more to clear payroll room.

Lineup for 2010 should be...
CA: Whoever, 1B: Dopirak, 2B: Hill, SS: whoever, 3B: Encarnacion, LF: Lind, CF: Wells, RF: Snider, DH: AAAA guy such as Randy Ruiz
Rotation...
Halladay, Romero, plus mix of Cecil, Rzepczynski, Richmond, Purcey, Ray, Litsch, Mills, and whoever else is out there.
Bullpen...
Frasor (unless traded), League, Carlson, Janssen, Hayhurst (looks darn good), Accardo, Roenicke, ... plus Downs and Camp if still here too and losers from rotation battle plus kids in system charging up plus AAAA guys plus...

Wow, no shortage of guys for the pen eh? Nothing amazing in quality but wow in quantity.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 01:48 PM EDT (#206333) #

FrankM (maybe that's a good moniker if hockey love is about to return),

Don't you think that the Rays are likely to be a competitive team during the 2008-2012 period despite the low budget?

christaylor - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 02:48 PM EDT (#206334) #

1. Offer arbitration to Scutaro
2. Resign Barajas (1 year w/option), hope JPA challenges for a job next year.
3. Attempt to resign Halladay, if he's firm on FA then trade for the best package.
4. Trade Overbay as long as the Jays do not eat salary.
5. Use roster flexibility to acquire players with upside for 1B/OF with the goal of catching lighting in a bottle (see: TB and Pena). Give Encarnacion the 3B job.
6. Revamp bullpen (which has not been good this year) don't necessarily acquire players, but consider moving Purcey or another starter (McGowan?) into the pen.
7. Follow through on the commitment to spend the savings from the Rolen and Rios moves.

Unless the payroll is jumped to $120M (unlikely) the Jays will only be able to incremental moves this off-season. This means they need to be creative with the roster construction.

Lastly, JP (or whoever) needs to be open to trading Hill, Lind and Snider, much like the almost trade of Rios two winters ago. JP has never been a sell-high and trading Hill and/or Lind now might be the ultimate sell high move. Shopping Hill, despite that he's the best Jay to watch now, might well be a great move as I'd be surprised if he repeats the power numbers of this year, next year. The Hill of 09 versus the Hill of 07 is that 14 doubles have turned into HR, but the perception is, I believe, that Hill has broken out. Hm. I've convinced myself...

8. Trade Hill

Gerry - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 02:50 PM EDT (#206335) #

Mike Green:

Why trade Lind? Is it sell at the top for a slugger whose defensive abilities are limited?

Ducey - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 02:55 PM EDT (#206336) #

1. Sign all the fricken draft picks!

2.Trade Doc

3 Offer Arbitration to ScooterO (see if someone grads him - if not go to arbitration)

4. Move Hill to 3B or SS

5. Pencil in Inglett at 2B

The obvious 1st choice is trading Wells, but the realism condition prevents that. I like Hill at 2B but that postion seems easier to fill. He has already played 3B and SS and 3B is his ultimate destiny. Mighty Joe Inglett can play 2B and sit at the top of the order.

Trading Overbay is not a priority for me. He can be platooned to some degree. Trading him is likely going to create a hole somewhere else. He is a FA after this season and can be traded at the deadline or offered arbitration.

If I had a 6, I would suggest picking off someone good in the Rule V draft (maybe a Reed Johnson type) and holding him for the season.

Schad - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 02:59 PM EDT (#206337) #

1. Trade Halladay. Sadly, our horizon is probably at least three years at this juncture, likely more.

2. Offer arbitration to Scutaro and Barajas, hope they decline. We might be overrun with draft picks as it stands, but with a still-thin farm system (especially with position players) it can't hurt to get a couple more lottery tickets, even if some get used on lower-ceiling college seniors. Scutaro also cooled significantly as the season progressed (slash stats of .247/.357/.337 from August 1st on) and is unlikely to replicate his results of '09.

3. Spend the entire off-season on the phone with Jim Hendry trying to convince him to take Wells for Bradley, which Rob Neyer suggested might be possible. Sweeten the deal with cash, first-born children, the CN Tower, whatever is necessary.

4. Do nothing in free agency unless an excellent player on the south side of 30 falls into our laps (odds of happening: nil). No 34 year old sluggers, no aging shortstops, no flash-in-the-pan starters.

5. Set aside any savings for the draft budget. The 2010 draft could be our best shot at triggering a sustainable rebuild, and the last thing we need is to go cheap on a top-10 pick.

I don't want the team to get full Marlin, but I do want them to wait until next off-season to start throwing around cash; this was intended to be an evaluation year, but it posed more questions than it answered. We have three rookie starters who experienced varying degrees of success, with all three sporting somewhat troubling peripheral numbers: Romero's 1.52 WHIP and diminishing returns as the season progressed, Cecil's John Wasdin impersonations, and Zip's high walk rate. Add to the mix the fact that our only two offensive stars in Lind and Hill came out of nowhere and I haven't the slightest clue what we can expect next season.

In addition, the economy is likely to remain fairly bad next year, and any attempt to spend out of trouble likely to be met with indifference from fans; I worry that the team will try to make good on its $100m+ budget fantasy, discover that the team is still less than competitve (and still not a big draw), and thus chastened tighten the purse strings long-term. I'd much prefer that Rogers hold tight for a year and look to make a splash when we have a more complete picture of the state of the organization.

Roster:

Catcher: Kyle Phillips. 1B: Dopirak/Ruiz. 2B: Hill. SS: Angel Sanchez. 3B: Encarnacion. LF: Lind. CF: Wells (assuming the Bradley buzz is a fantasy). RF: Snider. DH: Dopirak/Ruiz.

Rotation:

A combination of Cecil, Zip, Romero, whatever return we get for Halladay, and whoever else can throw a baseball for under $1m.

Bullpen:

Same group as this year (give or take a couple of the fringe guys, and barring a trade of Frasor or Downs, which I'd favour), though I'd also like to see them aggressively promote a couple of the young arms like Farquhar or Magnuson if they experience early success.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#206338) #

Lind is great now, but has enough service time that he will be entering arbitration in 2011. This club is not likely to be good before Lind gets expensive, and so he has more value to another more imminently competitive club (particularly one that is budget-sensitive). Lind for a damn good prospect at a key defensive position is something that makes sense, particularly on a "Go Marlin" budget.

John Northey - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 03:12 PM EDT (#206339) #

Lind is certainly worth trading if someone will give up a lot for him. Much like Scutaro his year says 'career year' to me.

Yes, he is a lot younger and should stay closer to this level but ... he had over 600 PA's in the majors before this year with an OPS+ of 95 before jumping to 136 this year. A 120 might be reasonable to hope for in the future but 110 is more likely I'd expect given that he is in the age group primed for career years (25 this year, peak seasons normally occur in the 25-29 window). Maybe he is going to stay up at the 130's but to bet on it would be a mistake. If some other team is willing to trade young prospects at a level that matches the 130's production then go for it. If not, then hold on as a 110-120 OPS+ guy has a lot of value still.

I would hate to see one of the good stories leave though. 30 HR, 100+ RBI, might have a 300 average - aka a HOF season (300/30/100 in traditional stats). His 907 OPS and 136 OPS+ are sweet. His defense...not so much.

youngid - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 03:17 PM EDT (#206340) #

1. Acquire a DH

2. Trade Mills/Purcey

3. Acquire a SS

4. Re-sign Barajas

5. Offer Scutaro arb

Ideally we sign Vlad to DH (I think he's got another great year in him), trade Mills+Purcey (or similar) for JJ Hardy, and EE figures out how to throw straight.

FisherCat - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 04:07 PM EDT (#206341) #

Trade Halladay :-(
Acquire MLB ready projected #2 starter
Acquire MLB ready SS
Acquire back of bullpen high ceiling arm with stuff that misses bats
Offer arb to Scutaro & Barajas

mathesond - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#206342) #

1) Trade Halladay and Hill
2) Get young 2B/3B/SS/SP
3) Move one of Lind or Snider to DH
4) Get CF, move Wells to a corner
5) Profit!

Frank Markotich - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#206343) #

Mike, to answer your question, the Rays have a chance to be competitive, sure. But their lack of financial resouces is going to bite them. Sooner or later, they'll have injuries or lose free agents, or guys will start to get expensive and they will run out of replacements. They could afford to deal Kazmir this year, but they can only keep dancing for so long. My opinion, of course.

If ownership is willing to spend, the rebuilding road need not be long. See Tigers, Detroit in the recent past.

I just don't see "Going Marlin" as a viable option in this market in this division. The Marlins fluked one 91 win season into a wild card berth and WS title. That won't get it done in the AL East, or at least I should say it's orders of magnitude harder. And before anyone rushes to point out that the Marlins have 2 titles, let me remind you that the first one was achieved by spending money, not by a youth movement.

What irritates me more than anything is that Toronto is a large market, but ownership is bent on behaving as if it were not. Torontonians don't see themselves as plucky underdogs.

The watershed moment in the history of this franchise was July 1995, when Interbrew bought Labatt's. At that time, the team began its transformation from a model franchise to ... whatever it is now.

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 04:48 PM EDT (#206344) #

Oh, I agree about that. If the Rays are competitive for 2008-2012, and get to two World Series (as I think they will), that wouldn't be bad. The budgetary restraints may not bite them hard until 2012.

It would be frustrating as hell if ownership won't make the commitment, but as Gerry suggested in the story, it doesn't seem too likely that they will.

brent - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 06:50 PM EDT (#206345) #

Everyone should have at #1 sign Scutaro to a decent contract or take the picks.

#2 play the kids

#3 see where the free agent market is and take what you can get value from

#4 exercise Barrett's option

#5 promote LaCava

Thomas - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 07:14 PM EDT (#206346) #

I'm assuming the payroll remains constant or decreases:

1. Trade Halladay (Gulp...*tear*)

2. Offer Scutaro arbitration (Take the risk he accepts; I highly doubt he will and I'd love more picks

3. See what Lind will bring back (Trading him isn't mandatory, like the other two moves are, but I agree with much of what Mike's said about Lind. I like him, but if he can get you a younger player with upside at an important position it's worth doing)

4. Trade Overbay (Not mandatory, but if you can get anything for him, do it. Some combination of Ruiz/Dopirak/FA/Phillips aren't going to set the world on fire, but if the team has traded Halladay and possibly Lind, it isn't going to matter.)

5. Acquire a CF and SS. (I put these together as hopefully they can be addressed, at least in part, by trading some of the aforementioned players. I'd like a catcher too, but at least the team has a probable major leaguer there in Triple-A with Arencibia.)

Side comments:

6. Do not move Hill to SS.

7. If you can deal Wells, obviously do it. Getting Bradley for him would be a great deal, if the team could pull it off (I highly highly doubt it). Bradley might be okay DHing in a low-pressure environment like Texas, but the savings make the gamble worthwhile even if he erupts agin.

8. Keep at least one of Camp and Tallet (and I'd love to see Hayhurst replace one of them, if dealt). I don't understand this obsession with trading them unless they are the last $2 million required to get the team under budget. If the rotation has no Halladay next year and includes Purcey, Cecil, 'Zep, Romero and, say, Richmond (or even a FA starter instead of Richmond) the team is going to have a bunch of 4-5 inning starts. The bullpen will need to have guys who can throw 3 innings to avoid overtaxing the short relievers. I'd focus on getting value for Downs or Frasor (or Accardo if he wants out).

jmoney - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 07:28 PM EDT (#206347) #

1. Fire J.P.
2. Offer Scutaro arbitration
3. Extend Halladay or trade if he doesn't want to. (acquire 3 in a trade scenario)
4. Get a centerfielder
5. Trade Overbay and move Lind to 1st (Ruiz to DH)

Mike Green - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 07:29 PM EDT (#206348) #

I assumed that offering Scutaro arbitration was obvious, and that everyone would do that (debates about what he might be worth on the FA market notwithstanding).

jmoney - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 07:30 PM EDT (#206349) #

Made a mistake. Meant to say that if you trade Halladay try and get a centerfielder. (Step 4, not 3)

parrot11 - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 07:57 PM EDT (#206350) #

I should preface this by saying that my suggestions will entail blowing up this team and dealing pieces that I'm sure that most will disagree with. The reason that I will be willing to deal the following pieces is that I believe that the Jays are a very long ways away from legitimately contending. I would also re-invest a good chunk of the money saved in hiring the best scouts, front office staff, and maintaining a huge draft budget.

1) Trade Halladay for prospects (with emphasis on quality over quantity, better to get a couple elite prospects than lot of good prospects)

2) Trade Aaron Hill - he's no spring chicken and is likely to be coming off his career year. By the time the Jays will be ready to compete he will be out of his prime. No use wasting all his good years on a non-contending roster. You can probably get back a package close to Halladay given his season, overall game, and contract.

3) Trade Lind if right offer comes along. I would probably be more reluctant to trade Lind, given that I think that he's a better hitter than Hill and might be able to continue producing at an excellent level when the Jays will be competing. If someone comes with the right offer, I make the trade. Need elite prospects in return.

4) Trade Frasor and Downs for prospect(s)

5) Open to trading any reliever or pitcher for the right price.

The goal will be to have a team that everyone (people who are non-Jays fans) realistically expects to compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, and whoever else in 5 years. For that to happen you need elite talent. I know my opinion will not be popular, but I don't think that this team is a few moves away from overtaking the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays. And while the pieces being given up are pretty nice ones (which is why you'll get alot in return) they're likely to waste most if not all of their prime on a rebuilding team and I don't think that they can be "the guy".

Chuck - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 08:00 PM EDT (#206351) #

2. Offer Scutaro arbitration (Take the risk he accepts

I wonder what that "risk" would really cost? I think the organization would be fine if he accepted arbitration. I think the process will see him undervalued. And there'd only be a one-year commitment.

I am guessing that this off-season will look a lot like last year's, with teams thinking twice about giving up draft picks to sign non-marquee free agents. Scutaro could get squeezed like Hudson did last year, and Hudson had a much fancier c.v.

Or the Red Sox could decide that two years of Scutaro means not having to dick around with nine guys at shortstop, draft picks be damned.

TamRa - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 08:15 PM EDT (#206352) #

Wow, it's stunning the amount of ....I'm not sure what you call it....the whole "Sell high on Lind while you have a chance" mentality. Damn guys, major league teams don't operate that way. It's not like Lind is Garret Jones or Nelson Cruz or Ryan Ludwick.

Anyway....

1. Get a centerfielder.

no wait, hold it. The Jays are too thick headed to move him out of center so since I'm barred from commenting on changes in off-field personnel....scratch that one.

1. SHOP Halladay. Note the absence of the word TRADE. If you can get the right deal, trade him, if not, don't. Look at the early returns on the Cliff Lee package, for instance. For instance, the Dodgers might be presuaded to give up Martin and they have good depth at SS and in pitching prospects. There's REAL parameters for a deal there that could help us now AND down the road. But I would most assuradly NOT just take the best deal offered for the sake of making a move.

2. Offer arbitration to Scutaro and Barajas and talk to scoot about a 2 year/w option deal just to see if he happens to (erroniously) settle cheaply. The thing Jays fans forget is that other GMs can see what we see about his age and potential for decline. if we offer arb it might very well be true that the depressed market, his circumstances, and the idea of giving up a pick brings his value into our range (or convinces him to accept arb).

3. Decide what internal hitters you think have a future and which don't? EE going to be good enough on both sides of the ball to be your 3B the next couple of years? (I agree long term Hill is probably going to end up there but the question is when); Overbay the best you can do at 1B? Can you get a tangible return for him? Where do Ruiz and dopirack fit into your plans if at all?

4. Market excess starters (after you find out if Doc is gone or not). To wit -
The current candidates for the rotation:

Doc - obviously
R-Ro - according to Cito
Marcum - presuming health
McGowan - pitching again but obviously very shakey chances
Listch* - in June?
Cecil - one assumes he'll come to ST strong
Zep - actually pitched better than Cecil
Purcey - managment still calls him a candidate and i hope he's in the majors for someone next year
Richmond - certainly able to go to the pen
Mills - seemingly blocked, prob needs more time after the injury
Ray - ditto
Stewart - no need to rush him but who knows how quickly he'll force the issue

With all that going on, sniffing around to see if you can get a quality offer for Purcey or Mills (for instance) is certainly worth doing.
5. Sort out the pen. If the big money rolls in, then you can keep the strongest 6-7 guys regardless. that might be -

Downs, Frasor, Tallet, League, Carlson, Accardo, Janssen

but then there's also Roenicke, Camp, Hayhurst (yes he's earned discussion), and Richmond if he's pushed out of the rotation.

the thing is, Cito won't use Accardo so if Cito's coming back, we ought to be agressively shopping Accardo; Tallet might have more value with a demonstrated ability to start (plop him into an NL rotation like in S.D. and watch him boost his income); several of these guys are arb eligible (do we really need to cling to Camp when we have two or three others who can do what he does - trade him!); Frasor and Downs are one year from free agency and probably have good trade value (particularly downs)

You don't want to presume TOO much on your depth but moving out 2-3 of those guys for an interesting return is only logical, especially if you get upper-minors hitting or solid bench help.

It must be noted I did NOT say "sign a...." free agent because we have no firm word on the budget next year. I do not mean to suggest we don't need to add a free agent, but IMO the first and primary consideration is to figure out what you have and where the need is.

For instance, if you decide you are dealing Overbay and putting Lind at first, then that opens up a different opportunity to add a hitter than if you are keeping Lyle. Likewise, if EE is going to be your third baseman then that affects the dynamics of potential signings differently then if you move him to 1B or DH or trade him.

So it's pretty difficult in this situation to say "sign a..." without knowing where the need will be. Obviously there's a need at SS and C but the guys on the market at those two positions do not inspire me to call for their signing.

zeppelinkm - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 08:30 PM EDT (#206353) #

I could totally live with Doc getting traded to the Dodgers. Martin's value will never be lower and he'll be 27 next year. Despite his disturbing loss of power this year, he still got on base at a good clip. The Canadian factor is a nice touch.

If they can get a good pitching prospect (read, not Kershaw or Billingsly, I don't think that's realistic) plus a toolsy prospect (SS or CF), that would be ideal. One proven ML player at a position the Jays are really weak in, plus some high end potential.

The exposure of pitching in LA combined with his increased dominance from switching from the AL East to the NL West will really help his Hall chances down the road.

TamRa - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#206355) #

couple of side points -

1. I love how many people ignore the clear directions to discuss on-field personnel to lead with "fire JP" which effectively nullifies their post in terms of the poll.

2. On the Wells for Bradly move, Id do that. Originally my thought was, no way could i want to bring a head case like Bradley into the clubhouse with a bunch of young players but then it occured to me - it's a helluva lot easier to cut him if he gets out of line and eat $20 million than it is to eat Wells' deal (which, conversely, is why I'm skeptical the Cubs would do it). The thing is, if you get him thinking you might have to cut him, you DON'T want to send a bunch of money to the Cubs in the deal.

jmoney - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 10:19 PM EDT (#206357) #

You mean all our posts are nullified in this hypothetical game? oh no!

Ryan Day - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 11:13 PM EDT (#206362) #

I just don't see "Going Marlin" as a viable option in this market in this division. The Marlins fluked one 91 win season into a wild card berth and WS title. That won't get it done in the AL East, or at least I should say it's orders of magnitude harder.

I tend to agree. Just look at the Rays, who were supposed to be the new template for how to compete on a low budget in the AL East - great season last year, but this year they're as close to last as they are to first, and nowhere near a playoff spot.

The problem with the AL East is that the Yankees and Red Sox are rich and well-run. To really compete with that, particularly on a low budget, you'd need a truly great GM, and there aren't lot of those around.

westcoast dude - Tuesday, September 22 2009 @ 11:14 PM EDT (#206363) #

Encarnacion has been channeling Scott Rolen; two dingers tonight are making me a believer. If he hits 40 homers next year, then it's a whole new ball game. No walks tonight in 11 innings, two strong innings from Accardo, and a gritty start from Tallet, what's not to like? Top draft pick be damned, give us a strong finish--sweep the Red Sox--and there is Reason To Hope.

tstaddon - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 12:03 AM EDT (#206364) #

I doubt that Chicago would do a Wells for Bradley deal straight-up. Wells still has $98 million on his contract. Add that to the $72M they still owe Soriano and it's probably not happening. Now, if you could convince the Cubs to take on Wells and, say, Frasor or League for Bradley and Fukudome maybe you'd have a chance. Still leaves a $50M disparity, but it's closer.

If you were really enterprising, maybe you try and work out a three-way deal with a team like Houston, who seem set to re-tool. Toronto gets Bradley and Carlos Lee, who is on the verge of becoming at least a part-time DH. Chicago gets Wells and Frasor. Houston gets Soriano and League. Totally speculating, and only talking principles, but it would seem to help all three teams...

Mick Doherty - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 12:50 AM EDT (#206365) #

Bradley might be okay DHing in a low-pressure environment like Texas

Ah, a common misconception. Dallas/Fort Worth isn't New York City or anything, but when teams around here win (Mavericks, Stars have done so; Cowboys not so much, but they're THE COWBOYS; Rangers haven't done anything this millenium!) then the press pays attention. There are three all-sports radio stations in this market, ESPNDallas.com launches next month, and you have as owners of your four major sports teams massive personalities in Mark Cuban, Jerry Jones and (two teams) Tom Hicks.

Besides, for Bradley's nice stats in his brief spin through North Texas (.321/22/77), he only managed to make it on the field for 126 games. The leering press around these parts noticed that, indeed, and there was no great sense of loss when he departed for the Windier City up north.

Dave Till - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 07:17 AM EDT (#206367) #

My top five probably don't meet the criteria:

1. Get a firm commitment from ownership on what the budget will be. Right now, many fans are wondering: why bother? (I, for one, care less about the team than I have at any time since 1983.) If Rogers actually plans on spending the money they are saving on Rios, Rolen, etc., instead of just trousering the cash, they need to publicize that fact ASAP.

2. Ensure that they pick draftees who will sign. There's not much point in letting expensive players go to free agency if you can't sign the picks you get in return. This may require upgrading the scouting budget. Toronto has a special problem when it comes to free agents and trades: many players don't want to play in a foreign country or on funny turf. This is a handicap that the Jays will have to live with.

3. Lobby to revamp the playoff structure and schedule so that (a) the Jays aren't trapped behind the Red Sox and Yankees, and (b) the Jays don't have to play the Red Sox and Yankees more than potential wild card winners in other divisions have to. Join forces with the Orioles and Rays on this. One of the big questions that these franchises face is: does MLB really care whether three of its franchises are being left to wither on the vine? My guess is that the Powers That Be really don't care much - the Yankees and Red Sox provide greater post-season television ratings, nobody likes Angelos, and Tampa Bay and Toronto are seen as rather exotic places to play baseball (both cities have domes). Baseball in Toronto is simply not viable as long as the Jays are forced to endure the current schedule and division setup. (And why, oh why, aren't the Jays and the Tigers in the same division? It's the only geographic rivalry the Jays have, and they don't get to take advantage of it.)

4. Beat the bushes for Canadian talent, or try to trade for it. As stated in #2, many players don't want to play in a foreign country. But I suspect that most Canadians, unless they're playing for pennant contenders, would be thrilled to play in Ted's Shed. Corey Koskie took a home-country discount to come here; it didn't work out, but that could not have been foreseen. And, if I recall correctly, Matt Stairs was frequently quoted about how much he liked playing in Toronto. Why not build a Canadian Baseball Academy, and get young Canadian athletes the instruction and tougher opposition that they need to overcome living in a country where baseball can't be played for several months of the year?

5. Do what Pat Gillick did: work the international market harder, and use the Rule V draft. Is there a contemporary equivalent of Epy Guerrero available to provide a pipeline into the Dominican Republic? And, given the Jays' lack of hitting talent in the minors, there's probably a whole bunch of people just off of somebody's 40-man roster who would be thrilled to be earning major-league money right now. Find them.

In my opinion, the decisions that are made with the current roster are far less important than any of the above. If the Jays only have the current resources to work with, I'd trade Halladay for as many good young position players as I could; the Jays have enough young pitching that some of it will work out, but have no bats at all. Doc has hinted that he wants out now, and who can blame him? Whether to re-sign anybody depends on budget - the first priority is signing the draft picks. Only after that money is secured should the club worry about free agents.

Jim - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 08:19 AM EDT (#206368) #

My Top 5 are simple.

1-5: Add as much high upside talent as you can to the system.

Everyone but Hill, Lind, Snider and the pitchers who haven't hit arbitration are available. The return on Lee may stink so far, but it's better then NO return.

Jim - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 08:22 AM EDT (#206369) #

The unbalanced schedule is never going to change.

It saves huge dollars in travel costs and the TV rights are more valuable when you play the majority of your games in your own time zone.

The league exists to make money, not identify the best baseball team. There are plenty of teams that are withering on the vine without being in the AL East.

Gerry - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 08:40 AM EDT (#206370) #

Well this wasn't as neat as I hoped it would be, we have approx. twice as many posters not following the guidelines as following them. That's why polls are a good idea, they limit you to picking one of the offered selections.

Here is a rough scoring of the votes so far, because people followed their own guidelines I have to had to make some assumptions to group the votes:

1. Trade Halladay 59 points

2. Offer arbitration to Scutaro 34 points

3. Reisgn or try to resign Halladay 21

4. Acquire a shortstop 19

5. Acquire a centre fielder 17

6. Trade Overbay 15

7. Resign Scutaro 13

8. Offer arbitration to Barajas 12

9. Trade Lind 10

10 tie. Trade Hill 9

10 tie. Acquire a third baseman

10 tie. Resign Barajas

13 tie. Acquire a starting pitcher

13 tie. Trade Mills or Purcey

John Northey - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 09:37 AM EDT (#206371) #

No question the best thing for the Jays to hope for is either...
A) Radical realignment - what Bud wanted to do about a decade ago where the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies and some poor sucker get stuck in the same killer division.
B) Expanded playoffs - to 10, 12, or 16 teams. 10 would be adding 2 more wildcards (one per league) with the two wildcard teams having a one game playoff before the 'real' postseason begins, no idea how they'd work 12 as a week off is not a good thing for most teams, and 16 is just adding a new playoff level (forcing reduction of the regular season back to 154 games).

B is the option most likely to occur, especially the expansion to 10 teams in the playoffs. A one game winner goes on thing is very popular and I could see MLB doing that as a made-for-TV thing with the AL often having one of NY or Boston in it thus jumping interest. The Jays would've only reached the playoffs under this system in 1998 (assuming it was put in place when the wildcard came into being in 1994/95) but at least there would be hope.

Thomas - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 09:48 AM EDT (#206372) #

Dallas/Fort Worth isn't New York City or anything, but when teams around here win (Mavericks, Stars have done so; Cowboys not so much, but they're THE COWBOYS; Rangers haven't done anything this millenium!) then the press pays attention.

I don't doubt that Mick, but playing for the Rangers isn't playing for the Cowboys. And I'm not sure they're the Mavs right now, either. Plus, playing for last year's Texas team wasn't exactly a high-pressure environment that rivals playing for the Cubs under Lou Pinella in a year where they were favoured to win the NL Central.

Matthew E - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#206373) #

I could see expanding the playoffs to seven teams per league: the three division winners and four wild cards. The four wild card teams would play each other in the two days directly following the regular season, and whichever one survived would go on to the ALDS against the division winners. It'd be pure hell for them, of course, but that's why it's better to win the division than win a wild card spot.

Gerry - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 10:17 AM EDT (#206374) #

The problem lies in the AL East so it is unlikely that the league will bring in any changes just for one division. The other divisions have seen a much better rotation of winners than the AL East.

John Northey - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#206379) #

To solve for one division, no. But to bring in more cash? You bet your bottom line!

What is more valuable, 8 regular season games for 30 teams or 3-5 playoff games for 16 teams? I suspect the 3-5 playoff games. If MLB is really greedy (gee, ya think?) they'd keep the 162 game schedule and expand the playoffs. However, it could create nightmares for the WS weather wise with all those fancy newer parks (and older like Fenway and Wrigley) with no roofs in the northern US. Perhaps shifting the season to start in March every year and even mix in a double header per team at home as a 'bonus' for fans in mid-summer (thus taking up 2 of those 8 games to be shaved off the schedule, the other 6 coming in late March).

What is funny is I tend to hope for either A) one team per division to make it or B) 8 teams per league. Either make it so the regular season is vital, or make it a joke. This half way stuff with one wildcard seems silly to me.

vw_fan17 - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 02:32 PM EDT (#206384) #

So, umm.. Just wanted to throw this out there.. Given just how horrible Rios has been in Chicago, I'm sure there's a TON of pressure to get rid of him after this season. Maybe offer the White Sox a deal where we take him back (he's been an ok player for us and there were a bunch of analyses saying he's basically worth his contract) plus a SS/C/whatever prospect in return for someone like Shawn Camp? Or, maybe something like Rios + $25M for Accardo?

TamRa - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#206387) #

the only playoff alteration you need (assuming a balanced schedule isn't going to happen) is this:

The best 4 teams, regardless of division, make the playoffs.

Without equal opposition it still won't be perfect but it will be as close as you can practically get.

CeeBee - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 04:30 PM EDT (#206393) #

No divisions, balanced schedule and 4 teams make the playoffs would be my first choice.

Or 2 divisions, 8 teams make the playoffs. Either 4 from each division or 3 + 2 wildcards.

CeeBee - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#206394) #

Back to the topic.

1. Extend Doc or trade him if extension isn't possible

2. Offer Scoots arbitration.

3. Offer Barajas arbitration.

4. Trade for/ sign a ss unless Scutaro re-signs or accepts arb.

5. Trade for/ sign a catcher unless Barajas re-signs or accepts arb.

Craig B - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#206395) #

1. Put the team (including RC) up for sale, as soon as possible but in any case before the end of the calendar year, with the aim to sell the team during 2010. I cannot stress this enough. From both a business point of view and from the sporting point of view, this is absolutely crucial to the future success of the franchise.

2. Offer Halladay a long-term extension topping out at 5 years, $90M, but be honest about the team's future and plans (see #1). When that is turned own, trade Halladay and Vernon Wells as a package for a collection of string. Possibly an old trunk full of avocado pits. Halladay and Wells must be accepted as a package and no salary or bonus payments to be assumed.

3. Tender arbitration offers to Bautista, Frasor, Scutaro, Barajas, Tallet, Accardo, League, Chavez, McGowan, Janssen, Marcum. (Non-tender McDonald, Millar, Camp). The free agents will leave; if they don't, there should be room to handle those contractual commitments.

4. Work extensively with Brad Arnsberg over the winter to acquire major league pitching on NRI and minimum-type contracts. Arny needs to be brought in to consult with the front office about everyone out there on the market. Try to extend his contract in the meantime.

5. Work with Cito on developing a plan - a real one - for the coming year. Build in contingencies - plan for success and plan for failure. Make him, and his staff, commit to a firm plan (a changeable one, obviously, but firm) about player development, roster construction, player deployment. Do not extend his contract, and ask him if he wants to be released from it. If he does, make Brian Butterfield the manager and implement the same planning process with Butter. But do it right, take your time, and try to have fun with it.

Back on earth, #2 will not be possible - first because no one will agree to take on Wells because they know the Jays' ownership has put baseball operations over a barrel, and second because a contract offer of that magnitude to Doc won't be possible as Rogers's commitment to putting budget "in line" with revenues will result in a going-forward player budget of around $55-60M (which is probably where the line of expected revenues would cross the expected expense - I'd say that a 65-75 win team would cost around that much, and that's what you'd expect from that budget, with some luck, in the medium term.

As far as what to do about the GM situation, which I'd also address, it's just not important enough right now. That waits until selling the team is completed. But both from the point of view of being fair to the fans and maximizing the value of the team going forward, the aimless drifting that the franchise has had the last 2-3 years has to absolutely stop.

cybercavalier - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 04:43 PM EDT (#206398) #

4. Beat the bushes for Canadian talent, or try to trade for it. As stated in #2, many players don't want to play in a foreign country. But I suspect that most Canadians, unless they're playing for pennant contenders, would be thrilled to play in Ted's Shed. Corey Koskie took a home-country discount to come here; it didn't work out, but that could not have been foreseen. And, if I recall correctly, Matt Stairs was frequently quoted about how much he liked playing in Toronto. Why not build a Canadian Baseball Academy, and get young Canadian athletes the instruction and tougher opposition that they need to overcome living in a country where baseball can't be played for several months of the year?

List of canadian MLB players who are not currently belonged to a MLB team and young enough to contribute to the Jays if they are signed to contracts:

Aaron Myette RHP; Eric Gagne RHP; Jason Green RHP; Danny Klassen IF; Kevin Nicholson IF; Eric Cyr RHP; Chris Mears RHP; Pete LaForest C; Simon Pond IF/OF; Pete Orr IF; Scott Thorman 1B; Adam Stern OF

Chuck - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 06:11 PM EDT (#206402) #

We appear to have different definitions of young. Gagne is 33. Orr is 30. Laforest is 31. Stern is 29. None have any business being on a major league roster.

I'd say Bobby Orr and Howard Stern are better bets to fill seats than Pete Orr and Adam Stern.

grjas - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 08:53 PM EDT (#206404) #

1. Convince the league to move to a balanced schedule OR
2. Move to a proper revenue sharing/salary cap plan OR
3. Move Yankees and BoSox to their own division AND
4. Have Rogers "show us the money" OR
5. Switch to a sport Toronto might win every 50 years or so. Hockey anyone?

Mike Green - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 09:07 PM EDT (#206405) #

Interesting, Craig. If the team budget is going to be $55-$60 million in the AL East of 2010-2014 with all of the other 4 teams in the division looking good, the next GM ought to be aiming to compete after the Wells' contract is off the books in 2015. Five years is a long, long time to rebuild.

I agree that the team ought to be sold. That really wasn't what Gerry was asking about, but what the hey.

cybercavalier - Wednesday, September 23 2009 @ 09:41 PM EDT (#206406) #

We appear to have different definitions of young. Gagne is 33. Orr is 30. Laforest is 31. Stern is 29. None have any business being on a major league roster.

I'd say Bobby Orr and Howard Stern are better bets to fill seats than Pete Orr and Adam Stern.

Thank you Chuck. Making the word "young" in bold was intended as a pun; I shall be more explicit next time. My original point of view was going against Dave Till's point#4: In terms of Canadian MLB players, how many of them can make a difference in playing performace comparable to Koskie and Stairs? If the players are Canadian and playing well, then it is ok. Otherwise, developing homegrown Canadian baseball talents seems to be a long term goal for baseball in Canada. But will this project or task, even if it is successful and seems to belong to the task list of Baseball Canada, help Blue Jays' performance ?

Timbuck2 - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#206411) #

Don't they already have a baseball league in British Columbia that was created to help young Canadian baseball talent do better?

Pretty sure Justin Morneau, Adam Loewen and Jason Bay were all graduates of this program...

Chuck - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 10:19 AM EDT (#206413) #

Thank you Chuck. Making the word "young" in bold was intended as a pun

A pun, eh? Well, I missed that. Even looking back, I still miss it.

katman - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 02:46 PM EDT (#206426) #

What the poster non-compliance reflects is the consensus that the Jays' real problems are in management and ownership, and that nothing on the field will work until this is fixed. Too many people in Toronto remember Harold Ballard, and the associated lesson his reign taught.

The posters who see the AL East + unbalanced schedule as a death sentence are also essentially correct. MLB doesn't really care, and won't until/unless franchises begin folding. Expect crowds of 13,000 or less in Ted's shed for a while. Yes, that will play into budget discussions. It could even turn us into the Expos, and Tampa Bay will be shaky too if their model sputters for the next few years. Accept that, it's beyond our control.

While it's possible that new Jays ownership will be willing to lose gobs of money, that cannot be depended upon. Which means the Jays need 2 things to be successful:

1. A very stacked farm system. Talent must come from within; it will not come from outside via free agents, and trades won't happen without quality to offer.

2. Excellent trading and scrap heap skills, with a priority on trading skills since that's a stacked farm system's natural complementor.

1 is more important than 2.

Select the team's future baseball leadership accordingly, and invest in restructuring the organization to these ends over the next couple of years, as a priority over investing in players. Realistically, that means competitiveness before 2015 is unlikely. Which leads to the recommendations...

1) Everybody is tradeable. No exceptions. Odds that any star on this team will be in their prime if/when the Jays are competitive is low. SHOP them, and see what might come back. Halladay, Lind, Hill, Downs? Yes. Focus on almost-there and high upside talent in return, rather than major league now talent.

2) Mostly agree with Craig. Tender arbitration offers to Frasor, Scutaro, Barajas, Tallet, Accardo, League, Chavez, McGowan, Janssen, Marcum. They will either be useful components for next year, trade bait, or draft picks.

3) Non-tender McDonald, Millar, Camp - and Bautista. I might sign The Minister of Defence as a free agent later, depending on the shortstop depth the Jays have at that point, but arb may not make sense, depending on how stuff develops. And Camp is a fine pitcher, it's just that he has less trade upside and we need an extra bullpen spot to work young starters into. Bautista is too expensive for this team as a non-regular player.

4) Substantially increase the draft budget, and be willing to overpay. If that means setting a precedent by paying another $300k for your #2 high-upside pitcher pick, do it.

5) Sign... no free agents, unless they're slotted for backup roles. Chavez and Phillips or Barrett will do for catcher next year. If Scutaro goes, Angel Sanchez at short plus a low-budget backup. Encarnacion has earned a look at 3rd for a year, and Inglett backs him up. Leave Overbay at 1st unless you can trade him, and Ruiz/Dopirak can be used. Inglett plays 2nd if Hill is traded. Coats can be the 4th OF. We have no closer, but we have a few guys who might be able to step up. And who knows who might come back in trades? Save the money, play the kids - don't worry, be crappy.

Ron - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 04:18 PM EDT (#206432) #

And based on the 5000 people that the Jays are getting inside Skydome, the Jays have become completely irrelevant in the greater Toronto area. Ownership/Management have driven the Jays brand so far down the gutter, even a Shawn Camp for Prince Fielder off-season trade wouldn�t even create a buzz.

cybercavalier - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 09:16 PM EDT (#206446) #

Until the Jays have new ownership, discussing on field moves is irrelevant in my opinion. It�s obvious the Owners of the Blue Jays, Joe Sixer and Suzie Q, don�t care about the Jays. Heck one of the suits said JP is �a great leader� in a recent article from Blair. Virtually everything that comes out from Management and Ownership is a lie. This spans all the way from being dishonest about injuries to a player, potentially boosting payroll to 120 million, being aggressive in the international market, to changing how they handle the draft. And based on the 5000 people that the Jays are getting inside Skydome, the Jays have become completely irrelevant in the greater Toronto area. Ownership/Management have driven the Jays brand so far down the gutter, even a Shawn Camp for Prince Fielder off-season trade wouldn�t even create a buzz. Although I am leaning to agreement with Ron, we still need to assume that the Jays ownership cares about the teams, for the sake of this discussion. Simply put, if the ownership doesn't support team, most player movements especially those have substantial impact on team performance, won't take place. Given that, I shall concentrate on AAA roster which I am fond of discussing after watching a dissappointing Jays season. Las Vegas roster of batters for 2010

C Kyle Phillip, Erik Kratz
IF Brian Dopirak, Mayerson, Kevin Howard, Angel Sanchez, a free agent 2B (Ruben Gotay or Howie Clark)
OF Buck Coats, Aaron Matthews, David Smith, a free agent OF (John-Ford Griffin ?)

Call me nostalgic if you will in resigning former Jays in Erik Kratz, David Smith, Matt Watson and John-Ford Griffin; but given the fact that there isn't MLB ready hitters in AAA, signing a bunch of AAAA guys may actually trying to strike a lightning in a bottle while the prospects can continue to develop. I added Gotay because he draws lots of walks more than strikeouts.

Starting lineup vs RHP

2B Ruben Gotay
CF Buck Coats
3B Kevin Howard
1B Brian Dopirak
RF John-Ford Griffin
DH David Smith
C Kyle Phillips
LF Aaron Matthews
SS Angel Sanchez

Starting lineup vs LHP

2B Ruben Gotay
3B Kevin Howard
1B Brian Dopirak
LF David Smith
CF Aaron Matthews
RF John Ford Griffin
DH Kyle Phillips
C Erik Kratz
SS Angel Sanchez

cybercavalier - Thursday, September 24 2009 @ 09:22 PM EDT (#206447) #

Matt Watson is the go-to guy for corner outfield and first base backup if someone is gone (ex. Dopirak is promoted in MLB). Mayerson shall be given time up the middle (i.e. splitting time with Gotay and Sanchez, especially if Sanchez is promoted in MLB). Clark, eh, is the utility guy until the kids in AA good enough to be promoted.

Craig B - Sunday, September 27 2009 @ 11:52 PM EDT (#206529) #

Mike, Gerry asked "All of you are invited to submit your top five ideas for improving the 2010 team."

The #1 way to improve the 2010 team is to get it out of the hands of Rogers, who are slowly poisoning it from the inside. Or starving it, whichever you prefer. They managed to turn one of the most valuable assets in baseball against his team in the space of about a month; that takes some doing.

Mike Green - Monday, September 28 2009 @ 09:44 PM EDT (#206577) #

"Firing the owners" would have been top of my list too, Craig, but I figured it was covered by this:
"3. This is limited to on-field suggestions only, so no to-do's relating to JP Ricciardi, Cito Gaston or the coaches". I suppose that the owners were not specifically mentioned...

If Balsillie bought the club, I wonder what the nickname would be changed to. The Toronto Rimshots has a ring to it.

VBF - Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 11:43 AM EDT (#206583) #

There's two scenarios. Scenario 1 is that Rogers commits to payroll and the Jays are able to turn the payroll boost into acquiring free agents. Scenario 2 is that Rogers doesn't, and Type A free agents are not an option to sign (which would really suck because its a buyers market and the Jays don't give up a draft pick but whatever.)

Scenario 1:

Sign Chone Figgins
Ruiz learns a passable first base in the winter, and platoons with Overbay. This allows Lind to DH on occasion instead of having the suspect defense of Snider, Lind Wells every game for nine innings.
Offer arbitration to Scutaro and if he declines make an offer. Willing to pay more money for less years.
Investigate trading for Bradley. Would also allow Lind to DH.
Sign a catcher who can hit .above .230/.300/.400. That alone would be a dramatic improvement. Said catcher splits time with Phillips or Arencibia if J.P. is playing well.

Scenario 2:

Trade Doc, acquire ML ready starter, and ideally catching prospect.
Trade Overbay for the best prospect he can get (B?)
Include Frasor or Downs if it's what it takes to get a good deal done.
Inglett learns shortstop over offseason as a stop gap. (Should have happened this year in Vegas)
See what it takes to acquire Andy Marte. Had a great year, Jays have no 3B prospects. How much could he possibly cost?
Ruiz DHs , Dopirak at first base, Phillips catching.

VBF - Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 11:56 AM EDT (#206584) #

Scenario 1 would also have a bench of Bautista, one of Ruiz or Overbay, Phillips or .710+ OPS mystery catcher, and a backup middle infielder. Not a bad bench at all.

VBF - Tuesday, September 29 2009 @ 12:01 PM EDT (#206585) #

"Ownership/Management have driven the Jays brand so far down the gutter, even a Shawn Camp for Prince Fielder off-season trade wouldn�t even create a buzz."

I'm don't like defending Rogers but the brand is stronger now than it ever was in the last 12 years. They have national broadcasts, and Jays merchandise is seen so much more than pre-2004. They're drawing 15,000 fans from Canada when they play in Seattle. This is what's so frustrating--that the potential is very much there, their lack of commitment to go all the way is painful.

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