Not a bad move by the Cubs. Pro-rated major league minimum for a guy who's going to extended spring training to start. If he doesn't work out it's no big loss to them.
My impression, and I may be wrong, is that he wouldn't go down to the minors for the Jays. Perhaps he discovered that the market for his services was smaller than he thought.
Good luck to him but I think he's done and, if he isn't, he won't be of any use this year.

When I said "to start" I meant he is beginning his journey there, not starting games. That would be an odd strategy but would be entertaining.

I don't think they even have to pay him the major league minimum until he joins the big club - he signed a minor league contract. I like that the GM said Ryan recognized he had to go down to the minors and get his pitches in to "do it right." Since we assume he refused a demotion by the Jays, that must have been a relatively new realization.

Since we assume he refused a demotion by the Jays, that must have been a relatively new realization.

I don't think it was necessary a new realization. Ryan had nothing to lose by refusing a minor league assignment by the Jays. He's going to be paid for the duration of his contract regardless and, by refusing, there's a chance Toronto choose not to release him and he gets to continue to pitch in the big leagues, which I'm sure is the outcome Ryan prefers. If he gets released Ryan gets his money and hopes to catch on with a big league team. If he doesn't then he can sign a minor league contract and hope to pitch his way back to the majors.

By refusing the assignment I'm sure Ryan knew this was a very possible outcome, but he had nothing to lose by testing Toronto and seeing if the Jays were actually willing to release him.

If he refused a minor league assignment, I think that allows for a lot of boos the next time he shows his face at the Dome.

After this year, and with all that money remaining, he's going to be hearing boos here regardless ...

I found this interesting in the Star today, and wondered why more NL managers don't pull stunts like this?

The Cubs have only one left-handed reliever, Sean Marshall.

Cubs manager Lou Piniella employed a unique strategy to keep Marshall in the game last weekend, moving him to left field when a righty reliever came in, then bringing him back to pitch one batter later.

Yeah that is a great move by Pinella.  I've always thought that there was a lot of room for a manager to add value if he challenges conventional thinking. 

 

I meant the Marshall move not the BJ one...

If he refused a minor league assignment, I think that allows for a lot of boos the next time he shows his face at the Dome.

I am speculating, but he really has nothing to lose by refusing one. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays sounded it out to him and he hinted that he'd turn it down and they decided to release him. Alternatively, it wouldn't take a psychology degree to take a look at Ryan and guess that he's the type of player who would most likely refuse one.

"I found this interesting in the Star today, and wondered why more NL managers don't pull stunts like this?

The Cubs have only one left-handed reliever, Sean Marshall.

Cubs manager Lou Piniella employed a unique strategy to keep Marshall in the game last weekend, moving him to left field when a righty reliever came in, then bringing him back to pitch one batter later."

For a number of reasons: First, most teams have multiple lefties in the pen, many with 3 so you don't need to do this. Second, it doesn't make much sense in the vast majority of situations. In fact, I think this move was just plain silly. What happened was this.

Runner was on 2nd and one was out in a 4-2 game in the 9th when Marshall came in. Due up were Chris Duncan who was announced for the pitcher, Brendan Ryan, and Skip Schumaker.  When Marhsall came in, Stavinoah pinch hit for Duncan and walked. Then Piniella moved Marshall to left, taking Soriano out of the game to bring in Aaron Heilman. Why? I have no idea.

Ryan's career numbers versus Marshall are 16 ABs with a .625 OPS (and .188 OBP ) and he was 2 for 2 career versus Heilman. This year, Ryan has a .713 OPS versus lefties and a .697 OPS versus righties.Career, Ryan is over .100 points better against lefties with an OPS of .732 tp .620 but only in 322 careers ABs.  (Interestingly, roughly 10% of Ryan's ABs against lefties have come against Marshall. So, the Cubs took Soriano out of a game to get, at best, a very slight advantage against a weak hitter (career ops of .671). It was not a great move, it was a case of over-managing. Had the Cubs tied it in the 9th, they had used up an extra position player and an extra pitcher for maybe a tiny advantage. It's be like the Jays taking out Rios (and later putting in Batista) trailing by 2 runs in the 9th so that Carleson could play RF so that League instead of Carleson, could pitch to Jamey Carroll.

The only case I can see for making a move like this is if the 3 hitters up have enormous splits. A lefty/righty/lefty series where all the hitters hit pitchers like all-stars from the other side and not their own at all. (or have an absurd split against the pitcher). You have to consider at what point would losing one of your better hitters, weakening your defense enormously for one AB, and using up a position player and an extra pitcher be worth it?

Back in the 80's I recall Pete Rose going nuts when Davy Johnson did this to him (iirc).  Johnson's Mets had a great left/right combo in the pen and he stuck one in LF while the other pitched for an inning or two while Rose was going ballistic, certain that some rule was being broken (guess he had money on the game or something).

It has happened a few times, but it is always fun when a NL manager does it.  Now, if an AL manager did it in a DH game - that would be innovative (and nuts).

According to Jeff Blair, the Jays never asked Ryan to go down to the minors. Paul Beeston also went to the Rogers CEO in Spring Training to express his concern about BJ. It appears the suits at Rogers were aware way back in Spring Training that Ryan would become a sunk cost unless he improved.

"Johnson's Mets had a great left/right combo in the pen and he stuck one in LF while the other pitched for an inning or two while Rose was going ballistic, certain that some rule was being broken (guess he had money on the game or something)."

I think there would be a very interesting way to do this as a plan rather than a whim. If you had a very athletic spot guy who could play adequately  at a couple of positions (say, 1B, OF) you could actually use that as a weapon. (again, it only works when the hitters have big enough splits to make it worthwhile.) I also think that there is a creative way to use guys like Micah Owings and Mike Hampton (great hitting pitchers who are borderline MLB starters)-if these guys could be taught to play OF, then you could even play them there (Owings is good enough to hit near the middle of Cinci's lineup anyway) and then later in the game, you could bring them in to pitch for an inning or a few and not have to use a pinch hitter.

I am speculating, but he really has nothing to lose by refusing one. I wouldn't be surprised if the Jays sounded it out to him and he hinted that he'd turn it down and they decided to release him. Alternatively, it wouldn't take a psychology degree to take a look at Ryan and guess that he's the type of player who would most likely refuse one.

Yeah, I agree that this is probably how the situation went.  Both Ryan and the Jays knew that if the Jays tried to outright Ryan to the minors, he'd be free to refuse the assignment, become a free agent, and still get all of the money still owed to him under his contract.  And as much as I may wish, as a Jays fan, that Ryan would have been more cooperative with the team that's paid him $50 million, and agreed to go on the DL with a phantom injury so he could try and get his career back on track within the Blue Jays system, I can't say that I really blame him for exercising his rights as a player and doing what's best for him.

Put yourself in his shoes.  If the company you work for: 1) against your wishes shifted your main job duty to someone else and gave you a lesser position; 2) hired a new boss that you didn't get along with; and then 3) tried to demote you to a smaller branch office; and you had the choice of either accepting the demotion or taking all of the salary owed to you over the next two years and accepting a similar position with another company you liked better and where your long-term job prospects were more promising, what person wouldn't refuse the demotion?

I'm just glad that Ryan signed to the Cubs, somewhere far far away from the Jays.  I was thinking I might have had to watch us pay him $15 million to resurrect his career with the Yankees, Red Sox or Rays and then (god forbid) get a World Series ring out of it.  Now that would have driven me crazy.

 

 

 

It appears the suits at Rogers were aware way back in Spring Training that Ryan would become a sunk cost unless he improved.

By definition, all guaranteed contracts are sunk costs the moment they are signed.

Cubs manager Lou Piniella employed a unique strategy to keep Marshall in the game last weekend

Rob Neyer has been on this case ever since it happened. He's dubbed it the "Waxahachie Swap" (after Paul Richards, who appears to have revived it as a managerial gambit in the early 1950s. Neyer reports that he's found instances of it being used 4 times each by Richards, Whitey Herzog and Alvin Dark; twice by Chuck Tanner and Lou Piniella; and one time by Bill Rigney, Davey Johnson, Tom Trebelhorn, Don Zimmer, Tommy Lasorda, and Bobby Cox.

Strangely, I have this memory of  Tony Fossas moving to first base for a batter and then back to the mound, while he was with Boston. Haven't found any actual evidence, mind you. (Haven't actually looked...)

Just noticed tonight's lineup for the Jays posted on their Twitter page and Vernon Wells is NOT in the lineup.  Does he have bad career numbers against Bucholz? (Doubtful).

What gives with this after a 4-day break...?

Bastian tweeted Wells is out with the flu. (Which I interpret as code for really crappy at home)

Speaking of Wells, here is a not so pretty analysis of his value:


http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/7/17/952509/whats-the-value-of-a-vernon-wells

According to Vincent Masi, the most recent employment of this strategy was on April 3, 2008:
Atlanta's Chris Resop started the 10th inning and allowed two walks and a bunt groundout. On the next batter, Royce Ring replaced left fielder Matt Diaz, and Resop moved from pitcher to left field. After Ring struck out a batter, Resop was brought back to the mound the same inning. Unfortunately, he gave up the go-ahead RBI single to Xavier Nady. He took the loss in a 4-3 defeat to the Pirates.

Before that it was Chicago's aforementioned Les Lancaster on June 13, 1990 (Game 1 of doubleheader):
In the top of the sixth, Lancaster replaced Jeff Pico as pitcher. Then, in the top of the seventh after Lancaster gave up four hits, Paul Assenmacher replaced Doug Dascenzo in left field while Lancaster moved from pitcher to left field. Then Lancaster came back in to pitch in the same inning after Assenmacher allowed two hits and a walk. Lancaster was tagged with the loss in a 15-10 defeat to the Mets.

And before that it was Atlanta's Jeff Dedmon on October 1, 1986:
Dedmon replaced Doyle Alexander in the top of the seventh and pitched to three batters, getting two outs. After a walk, though, pitcher Paul Assenmacher replaced right fielder Darryl Motley in the game, and Dedmon moved to left field while Terry Harper moved from left field to right field. Assenmacher then allowed an RBI single to Dave Parker. Dedmon moved back to pitcher and got Eric Davis to fly out and end the inning. The Reds beat the Braves 6-5.