I'll forgive you for confusing the White Sox with the Minor Leagues.

From my vantage point, it looked like Doc didn't have his sinker at all yesterday. When you're a Living God, you find another way. Through the first five innings he got only two groundouts, but he fanned five guys and got seven outs in the air.

For most sinkerballers, this is something of a problem. When you're a Living God, you find another way.

I seem to have made an elementary copy and paste error...

I agree it's a big day for Scott Richmond, by the way. Romero and Janssen are off the DL, and could be summoned at any time.

Cito Gaston pulled the plug on Dave Stieb after 12 starts in 1992. Danny Darwin got 11 starts in 1995. Denis Boucher got 7 in 1991, and Mike Flanagan was released (2-2, 5.83) after 5 starts in 1990. It's not like all of those guys had stunk every time, either - not even Darwin.

What are the job requirements to be a sculptor in the bobblehead industry? Apparently one of them is not the ability to make a bobblehead look like the athlete being depicted. I've got a Chris Bosh bobblehead which I could easily be persuaded to believe is an Uma Thurman bobblehead.

Yeah, they really fouled up the Doc one with the big smile during delivery.

I think that picture of the Roy Halladay bobblehead is the first time I've ever seen his teeth. In his 2003 Cy young one on my desk he looks more natural.

Through the first five innings he got only two groundouts, but he fanned five guys and got seven outs in the air.

Serious question -- what was the 15th out? (2+5+7 = 14) Was one of the groundouts a double play?

P.S. I am pleased and honored that "Bite me, Mick" has become the Batter's Box equivalent of "Yankees win! Yankees win! Thuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Yankees win!"

I agree.  In my mind if Richmond blows up again today he's go to go down.  I know its a bit quick but we are going to be in a fight to the end of the year and can't afford to send out Richmond if we have other guys ready to go.  Richmond was never expected to be much more than the 4th or 5th starter anyway so I don't think its a big strech that he gets sent down. 

What would be more interesting is if Richmond throws a gem.  Then JP will really have a lot of tough choices to make.

As the Jays prepare to go On The Road, today's print edition of the Globe advises that Jack Kerouac was a fantasy baseball nut before there was organized fantasy baseball.  The man apparently invented his own fantasy baseball game and kept meticulous statistics.  I guess some beat writers are statheads...(/firecracker)

Attendance, at least, is improving,  through 10 Home games (23 Apr.): 203,996; through 20 Home games (16 May): 425,785.  Of course, prorated through 81 Home games: 1,724,429.25, which truly sucks.  Attendance last year was: 2,399,786.  This year attendance needs to increase by at least 10%: 2,639,765, or 36,281 for each game starting 18 May 2009.  IF it doesn't improve, this team does not sign anyone this coming off-season.  What you see is what you get.

So, Rosie DiManno has a BBWAA badge. (Brief background on that list here.) Richard Griffin is the chair for the Toronto chapter. Discuss...

Through the first five innings he got only two groundouts, but he fanned five guys and got seven outs in the air. Serious question -- what was the 15th out? (2+5+7 = 14) Was one of the groundouts a double play?

Jermaine Dye caught stealing

Pass me that broom. So, 27 and barely a quarter of the season in. I like these odds.

Lind will most likely play LF in Atlanta. That leaves the lineup mostly intact. I like that too.

What would be more interesting is if Richmond throws a gem.

Well, Richmond threw a gem. This is indeed getting interesting.

I don't imagine that any pitcher isn't trying their hardest when they go out there, but it's certainly an interesting dynamic when if you start to slip there's someone in line ready to take your spot.   Besides Halladay, I imagine no starter is ever feeling complacent.

re: the attendance ... a couple questions.

A) Isn't the attendance being tracked differently this season? so that the results will look worse than they actually are

B) I believe they had some weekend home series' vs the Red Sox (and possibly even the Yankees) last season where they haven't had that yet this season.

As I said in the other thread, the Jays are showing laudable patience with their young pitchers,including Richmond.  No need to demote someone because of one or two bad starts, especially if he has pitched very well in his other starts.  Janssen and Romero, in other circumstances, would be ready to return to the majors by now.  But why not take a bit longer to let them regain full confidence and stamina?  Why not hold them back for the right moment?

Patience, patience -- the key to a smart club.

it's certainly an interesting dynamic when if you start to slip there's someone in line ready to take your spot.

Well, yeah!

"You never touch your luggage in the show--somebody else handles your bags. It's great. The ballparks are like cathedrals, the hotels all have room service, the women have long legs and brains--it's a smorgasbord."

By the way, the Jays are playing .594 ball (19-13), best in the division, when somebody other than Roy Halladay starts the game.

Amazingly, this search returns 103 results. After watching the righty-heavy Sox shockingly get abused by Richmond (who, to be fair, had a pretty good curve working today too and K'd Thome twice) I wonder if some Chicago fans are going to add to that total.

Viewed through Cito's idea of 10 game stretches

1st 10 games 7-3

2nd 7-3

3rd 6-4

4th 6-4

That must make Cito a happy man seeing that kind of consistency.

 

A thought about the attendance: the Jays didn't really pick up the hype and fans until the big win streak, right? Since the Jays have had such a long period of dormancy, it may take a while for fans to get warmed up to them because there was no period of contention before this sudden winning season. They have spent more time in first place this season since 1994 combined now maybe? It might take until next season to see the kind of attendance everyone here expects. The word must be out now that the team is good. How long will it take for word of mouth to translate to tickets. I would think another month of first place and the team should be close to 30,000 a game.

Guillen appeared to phone this one in.  No Betemit in the starting lineup. No pinch-hitting for Getz vs Downs. And Richmond just loves him some righthanded hitters, don't he?, particularly those that like the pitch a foot off the plate.

A sweep, heaven forbid, at the hands of the Sux would still = first place in the AL East. Wow, what a start to this season.

My thoughts on the low attendance figures...

a. The in-game experience at the Centre is consistently mediocre, and with the dome closed is dank and depressing.

b. More and more folks are laying out good money for HDTVs, and I must say that counting Richmond's eyebrow follicles on a newly-purchased 50" 1080p plasma is phenomenal.

So...  a+b = low attendance figures, regardless of the Jays' record.  I am banking that "a" will improve with better weather.

"b" on the other hand, may be problematic to reverse the trend, considering that, even with the dome open, watching at home on high def >>> everything but the 100s behind home plate.  Except vs. the Yankees and BoSox (and a plus with Doc on the mound).

Sad but true when technology may have obviated actually attending a game live, and I think this may be the case with many fans of *baseball*, not just the Jays.  Hell, I'd even watch a Nats/D-backs game in high def.

I wonder how busy Ricciardi's phone line is these days.  There might be a GM or two calling about some pitching. 

If anyone is interested in the Kerouac article, it appeared in the NY Times a couple of days ago: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/16/books/16kero.html?hp

Also, anyone know why the hyperlink option here at da Box still doesn't work?

This link is interesting. It shows through a very convincing visual demo the illusion that is created by the curve ball on a hitter.
And it lets you play with the controls !!!

http://illusioncontest.neuralcorrelate.com/2009/the-break-of-the-curveball/

anyone know why the hyperlink option here at da Box still doesn't work?

Damned if I know, the tech side of the operation being a Profound Mystery to me. I believe this is a problem that started with Firefox 3 - I seem to remember actually uninstalling Firefox 3 and going back Version 2 for that very reason. For a while.

I actually use Google Chrome for most of my web browsing these days, but I don't like to use it for some sites, including Da Box. With Chrome, I actually have to type in the HTML codes for paragraph breaks and italics. This is a pain. So if I actually want to write something here, I fire up Firefox.

As for links, the problem persists. Here's my workaround: electriccarrot just provided a web address, being unsure how to provide the actual link. I copied the address and pasted into into Chrome, the page appears. So I click the little link icon in the Box edit page that appears in Firefox, and it creates a link to nowhere - specifically, to "javascript:void(0);/*1242682560927*/" But if I click on source and replace what appears between the two quote marks with the actual link text, I get a real honest-to-goodness working link.

Now I'm in IE 8 - how does this work? Can I make the same link?

Hmm - looks like it works perfectly in IE 8, with no workarounds required.

 

 

Now I'm working in Safari - I like Safari a lot, I think it looks very cool. I have the same gripe with it that I have with Firefox and IE8, which is that it does seem to suck a lot of system resources. At least compared to Chrome.

Alas, Safari presents me with an edit box just like Chrome (no little buttons above the edit box for easy use...). I suspect I'll have to actually type in the HTML tags, and I have no idea how to make a working link.

Well, all is clear to me! I'll stick with Chrome for reading Da Box, but if I actually want to post something, it looks like:

1) IE8 is the perfect option.

2) Firefox 3 requires a workaround if I want to link to something, but it handles any other needed HTML tags with ease.

3) Chrome is my browser of choice and if all I have to type are the italics and paragraph break tags, I may or may not stick with it. Depends on how busy my computer happens to be with other stuff... (I multi-task! I am a modern guy!)

4) Safari - well, I have no idea what's going on! So I'm going to press Preview and find out... okay, it handled the para breaks.

Can I put something in italics?

Yes, but once I did, all the para breaks disappeared.

OKay, putting them back manually. Pain in the arse!

"a. The in-game experience at the Centre is consistently mediocre, and with the dome closed is dank and depressing."

Couldn't agree any more.

On Sunday I was clanking my chair when Roy would get to 2 strikes, and an usher actually came over to me to point out that that wasn't the purpose of the chairs (thanks, I figured they had built 25,000 extra ones to give everyone noisemakers). They don't let people jeer, and kick people out for throwing the ball back on the field. Maybe the Rogers Centre is a great place to take the family for a game (which is probably where they make the majority of their money), but the in-game experience for the more hardcore baseball fan (and presumably, the readers of this site) is HORRENDOUS.

It's too bad the Jays can't simply trade part of their ML ERA instead of an actual pitcher or two since aside from Doc and Cecil, I don't know if our pitchers really have enough value to consider diluting our depth. Would anyone really give a whole lot for Robert Ray, Scott Richmond or Brian Tallet? If JP could "sell high" on any of them it would be great to make a package for an impact bat like Adrian Gonzalez or even for a position prospect. But somehow I don't see JP trading 5 players for one impact player, such as Overbay (eating some salary), Mills, Purcey, Cooper and Jackson/Emaus for Gonzalez. I doubt that is enough for Kevin Towers anyway, but who knows. Frankly, I think it is even going to be a problem for Litsch and eventually Marcum/McGowan to regain rotation spots when healthy. I expect Litsch to be in AAA for a while, McGowan may go to the bullpen if the Jays believe it will keep him healthier and Marcum may be optioned to the minors. I certainly can't see the Jays integrating multiple injured arms into their rotation at the same time.

It's not fair as an outsider to say with 100% confidence that JP doesn't "sell high" on players, but players like Chacin and Litsch probably could have snagged something nice at the peak of their value and if the rumours are true, adding Diaz or Thigpen into the Rios/Lincecum swap might have been enough. Somehow I doubt that multiple pitchers are traded for significant returns; rather, JP will sit on his ridiculous surplus and may put Tallet/Janssen in the bullpen and keep 4 or 5 potential rotation candidates in AAA. This isn't necessarily a bad thing for a team in contention because we have seen how quickly a pitching surplus can turn into a deficit; but pitchers will likely not be traded at the peak of their values.

Early yet, but Carlson's declining K rate should be monitored. Was at 8.25 K/9 last season, currently sitting 5.14 K/9. Not getting hit any harder really on the whole, but not missing as many bats.

These '09 Jays are incredible. Demoraling 2-run HR in the top of the 8th? No biggie. RBI triple in the bottom and right back on top. And it always seems to be a new hero. Hill, the hottest hitter so far, fails with 1 out. So Rios, who has struggled the most so far, comes to the plate and delivers in the clutch. Hope this can continue for awhile.

 

This goes back to a discussion here earlier about the Jays grabbing another bat later on this season.  As I was watching the game today, I thought Jim Thome could be a possibility as a rental player.  Chicago would likely be open to dealing him if they drop out of the race in the Central.  Can't see him costing too much either.   Any thoughts?

Attendance will certainly increase. For 15 years, any reason for masses to go to the park was because it was 'something to do' or a bobblehead day, or that they wanted to see the Yankees or Sox play the Jays. Yea the Yankee series didn't draw as well past Tuesday, but they were weekdays and schools not out. As for today, there have always been lower attendances for long weekends.

And with the counting attendance changes, last year, a crowd like today would have been announced at 28,000+.

As long as the Jays don't totally blow the season on the road, I'm willing to bet you see 130,000 people for the Red Sox series. All the pieces will be (hopefully) aligned.

I realized today, and this was a very happy discovery, that Scott Rolen is the best defensive third baseman I've ever had the pleasure of watching on a daily basis. If he stays healthy he should be in the running with Longoria and Lowell for the gold glove. What a throw!

I thought Jim Thome could be a possibility as a rental player.

Aubrey Huff is another lefty they could target and it would probably not be much more than a contract dump for an average prospect. Or perhaps someone like Bautista could be traded straight up for Huff and then Snider would be sent down with Inglett coming up to take over the super-utility role. If the Jays look to upgrade their lineup, it would pretty much have to be at Snider's spot unless they made a trade for a mashing 1B like Gonzalez, though that does not seem to be JP's style.

If the Jays want to upgrade their rotation, Bedard might be the best target, though it would be like the AJ situation all over again so it's obviously a gamble. His latest ailment may have lowered the price, but I'm sure it will make opposing GM's even more scared to gamble on Bedard. I think this series against the Red Sox with Tallet/Cecil/Ray will be a good measuring stick. Over the long haul, I can't see Tallet or Ray (or even Richmond) as anything other than backend starters, which we have a ton of to begin with. Does anyone have an idea of what Bedard will cost? It certainly won't include a blue chipper, or at least I can't see it.

I wonder when JP decides to talk extension with Scutaro. Though I don't expect Scoot to keep this up (though I think he is going to end up with the best walk rate of his career by a longshot), wow, he has been phenomenal with the glove and stick and I don't know if the Jays will ever get this type of production over a full year from a SS. Simply amazing. He is only making $1.1 million this year and even a 2 year, $6 million extension would be much cheaper than Furcal's contract and he looks like he has a solid chance of outperforming him when factoring in defence.

I really can't see the Jays trading at all this season.
The depth of the pitching is going to pay off as soon as the scouts start to develop a book on the younger guys, and the hitting may actually improve. The infield & outfield are doing well, so why mess with what's working?

Why mess?

The team's primary weakness is a lack of depth at a couple of positions, with shortstop being the first priority.  It's nice that Inglett's back.  We will see how he does in Las Vegas.

The team could have a weakness pop up unexpectedly if someone gets hurt. If that happens, it'll be nice and convenient to have so many (presumably) valuable pitchers lying around.

Yeah, but if you trade from a position of immediate need, you tend to end up on the short side of the deal.  Today (and tomorrow and the next day), you can sit and sift through whatever offers you get.  You certainly don't have to make a deal right now, but the timing is good for it.  The team has been unbalanced (pitching vs. position players) from an organizational perspective for a while. 

"I'm willing to bet you see 130,000 people for the Red Sox series."

How much?!

Ah, thanks for the Bobblehead-related post. It gives me the opportunity to say that I have an extra Rios one, and would like to trade it for one I am missing in my collection. Off the top of my head, I know I'm missing Wells and Lind and probably a couple others. Anyone interested.

Mike, do you think there's a chance some team might be willing to give up a good shortstop prospect for a package of high-level pitchers?

The Nats have scored 5 runs today for the 9th game in a row. That ties a franchise record. Pretty impressive debut for Ross Detwiler, too. I maintain my faith that they will not be baseball's punch line in September.

There are some NL teams with blocked shortstop prospects, but more likely there are bench players with more current value than John McDonald.  Take Augie Ojeda.  Now that Drew's back in Arizona and the fact that he's 34 years old and the fact that the D'Backs could really use any kind of pitcher they can find, you can probably get him for not much.  He'll play a decent shortstop, and will get on base 34% of the time.  The fact that he hits much better from the left side is an added bonus.

There is Jason Donald who is also being tested at 2B and 3B. And after working with Butterfield perhaps he would be solid enough to stay at SS. Philly has had major pitching woes, though they have Kendrick and Carrasco in the minors. So, Janssen for Donald? I don't know if we are deep enough to do that. R Romero struggled tonight and I think we are going to need Janssen very soon. Now if Mills for Donald could work...

On the plus side, Arencibia is really heating up. I don;t know what is more impressive tonight, his HR and double or his 2 walks. .800 OPS just around the corner with .850 in a couple of weeks, I hope.

Most GMs seem very reluctant to do prospect for prospect swap. The risk of one looking like a big fool is just too much risk, I suppose. If the Jays wanted to get a solid SS prospect in return, they would likely have to give up more proven pitching. The problem there is that all who fall in that category are of low value right now (Marcum, McG, Janssen and maybe Litsch).

That leaves the 2 other types of trades
1. A contender that is short an arm right now and would be willing to overpay for an arm without too much long-term value; i.e. Richmond or Tallet for a prospect. Problem is that everyone wants to hold on to their young talent, so you won't get much.
2. The Jays part with prospects for a proven SS (or whatever else JP would like to get in return). But somehow I don't see that happening.

That 3rd inning play by Rolen...wow. Nice to see the crowd give him an ovation, too.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/05/ryan-wagner-retires.html

Maybe we got burned with Adams, but we did alright with Hill compared to the next guy picked.

Of course, prorated through 81 Home games: 1,724,429.25, which truly sucks.

When the Marlins won the World Series in 1997, ownership was not impressed with 2.364 million fans despite its title and roster full of high-priced free agents. The team was, accordingly, gutted.

On the other hand, check out these numbers from the Angels:

2001: 75-87, 2.001 million fans
2002: 99-63, World Series championship, 2.306 million fans
2003: 77-85, 3.061 million fans

The Angels understood what the Marlins did not: Attendance spikes not with success, but subsequent to it. The reason is simple: People don't attend sporting events on the spur of the moment. Work schedules need to be juggled, friends need to be arranged...people plan to attend games weeks or months in advance. And that's if they have money to spare.

The Jays' season ticket base has dwindled to about 12,000. That's what 15 consecutive playoff-free years will get you, not to mention the organization's "we're playing for 2010" attitude leading up to the season. If the Jays sustain their success this year, the season ticket and flex packs sales will pick up for next year. But simply put, a win on Wednesday doesn't sell all that many additional tickets for Thursday. It never has.

It is phenomenal that the Jays could draw 43k on Tuesday and 37k on Sunday given their small season ticket base and the fact that they now only count full-price tickets sold rather than turnstile clicks. I would venture to say that on those two dates, Jays fans were the #1 walkup crowd in the game, and walkup fans at least doubled the #2 walkup crowd in the majors on that particular date.

In conclusion, everybody needs to seriously chill about attendance. Be patient until two months -- or perhaps even a year -- from now.

If TV numbers were poor, then I'd be worried. But they're good.

Before the season I said that the only way we win is if Scott Rolen's "September re-worked swing" was for "real" and he returned to being Scott MVP Rolen. Which he nearly has - except that the HR power hasn't come all the way back yet. Lind and Hill are "surprises" sure - BUT BOTH are capable of what they're doing. Neither are over-achieving. Rios and Wells are being Rios and Wells - occasionally very useful. Wells stealing bases to get us in the place to win games is showing his OUTSTANDING determination to contribute. Scoots is the only "where did that come from" on the offense. And even he has never been "the man" before - could be this would have happened years ago if he'd been given the chance.

JP has assembled a staff - that have assembled - an AMAZINGLY talented starting pitching group. SERIOUSLY - we've got FOURTEEN that could contribute at the major league level this year and EVERY ONE of them COULD be a competent starter. UNPRECEDENTED. JP HAS to get the CREDIT for this.

First - we send Snider down - REMEMBER Delgado got sent down his first year as well. We bring Mighty Joe Inglett up as a super sub to back up as an outfielder and to back up Scoots and Hill.

The NEXT question is - What does JP do with this embarassment of starting pitching riches? The ONLY regular that could realistically be improved on is the Overbay - Millar platoon. IF there was a STUD - and I don't think there is one available - then I would say pull the trigger - even if you have to eat what's left of Lyle's contract. SO - it looks to me like we stand pat. Use the "extra" starters IF someone goes down and we HAVE TO make a move - otherwise - Ladies and Gentlemen - sit back - grab a cool one and watch a summer for the ages - 'cause this team is for "real." The other guys got some big names and MANY big contracts - truth is WE GOT THE TEAM. We're going to be THERE - man. We're gonna be there all year. Get used to it!

The NEXT question is - What does JP do with this embarassment of starting pitching riches? The ONLY regular that could realistically be improved on is the Overbay - Millar platoon. IF there was a STUD - and I don't think there is one available - then I would say pull the trigger - even if you have to eat what's left of Lyle's contract. SO - it looks to me like we stand pat.

When you say "realistically" - do you mean "a trade could actually exist", or "other players exist who could upgrade the position significantly"?

For instance, realistically, there's very little chance of upgrading on Adam Lind - he's the best DH in baseball right now. So, no matter who you get (aside from maybe Manny), they would hit worse. On the other hand, Wells and Rios are both middle-to-bottom in terms of offense at their positions. However, trading Wells is nearly impossible due to the object-that-shall-not-be-named and Rios is not doing that well, so you wouldn't get much for him right now.

But, for instance, getting either one of Jones or Markakis from Baltimore would be a HUGE upgrade in RF or CF. Monumental. Imagine a left-handed bat with power batting 3rd. Or a 370/426/669 guy batting cleanup. The Jays phenomenal offense would become one for the ages. How many times have Alex/Vernon been the rally killers this year?

I know, getting either Jones or Markakis is next to impossible. On the other hand, Baltimore's BEST starter has an ERA of 4.34, and after that, it's all over 5.2. How about this for a blockbuster, JP? (I know I'm being ludicrous here :-)
To Baltimore: Travis Snider, Scott Richmond, Brett Cecil, Alex Rios, Casey Jannsen
To Toronto: Adam Jones, Nick Markakis, George Sherril