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A lot of positive firsts in the Jays 5-1 victory over the Evil Empire Tuesday night at the Rogers Centre.  It was the Jays first win over the Yankees in their first meeting of 2009 and it was the first complete game for Roy Halladay as he became the majors first seven-game winner.  Just as importantly, it was the first loss of the season for you know who on the Yankees mound and it was the first game the Yankees regular shortstop was not in the lineup.  It might also have been the first time a pro-Jays crowd showed up for a Yankees game since the glory years as 43,737 showed up to take this one in at the building formerly known as Yankee Stadium North.  



"Doc" set the tone in this one but he did get some help from Travis Snider in the first inning.  The rookie left fielder threw out Johnny Damon in a bang-bang play at second after the former Captain Caveman tried to stretch a single into a double.   After they were set down in order in the first, the Jays had an opportunity to score in the second when Adam Lind drew a one-out walk and that was followed by an Alex Rodriguez error that allowed Scott Rolen to reach.  However, Lyle Overbay flew out and Rod Barajas grounded out to end the rally. 

The Jays were retired in order again in the third but they busted through in the fourth when Alex Rios led off with a double to center and he was joined on the basepaths by Vernon Wells and Lind, who each drew a walkAll three runners came in to score as Rolen doubled to left field to score Rios and Wells while Lind slid home safely on a Barajas sacrifice fly to shallow right.  Had Yankee catcher and former Jay Kevin Cash held on to the throw from Melky Cabrera, Lind would've been a dead duck at the dish.  Cash is up from AAA Scranton to fill in for the injured Jorge Posada, who is out with a pulled hamstringIt was also a pulled hammy that caused Hideki Matsui to leave the game after one at-bat against Halladay.  Nick Swisher took over as DH the rest of the way.  Maybe Matsui was suffering from the "Halladay flu" as Doc retired 17 Yankees in a row until Damon doubled and came home to score on A-Rod's single in the seventh. 

Toronto put the game away in the eighth when Aaron Hill connected for his ninth home run of the season.  Rios then walked, advanced to second on a Lind groundout on a hit and run, and then crossed the plate when Rolen punched one up the middle for his third RBI of the night.  Poor you know who had to leave the mound for Jose Veras at that point!  Halladay gave up just two more hits the rest of the way and finished with a complete game five hitter, striking out five and getting a whopping 16 groundouts.  He threw 72 strikes among his 103 pitches.  Scott Downs was warming up at one point but there was no way Doc was going to give this one up.

I think a tip of the cap also has to go to the defence, specifically to Overbay.  He made a couple of nice picks on groundballs by Robinson Cano to end the second and he made a nice unassisted putout on Ramiro Pena to end the sixth.  Overbay had a busy night around the first base bag as he teamed up with Halladay for a trio of 3-1 putouts and he made four unassisted plays on the night, including the game-ending groundout by Mark Teixeira.  In addition, Hill made a leaping snare on a Damon drive in the fourth.  And of course, Snider got that big assist from left field on that 7-4 putout of the Yankees left fielder in the first.

The Jays collected eight hits and four walks with Rolen getting three hits and Hill getting two.  Everyone contributed something to the mix except for Marco Scutaro, who had an 0-for-4 night and a dirty uniform when he tried to beat out a dribbler in front of the plate in the third inning by sliding into first.  Cash wound up throwing him out.  Why can't players get it through their thick skulls that sliding into first slows them down?   Clearly, it's time to bench him and bring in Johnny Mac!  :D Remember him?

A couple of other observations.  A Sportsnet update on the big screen at the Rogers Centre indicated the return of B.J. Ryan is fast approaching and that news wasn't warmly received by the crowd.  It's like 2006 never happened!  Also, some idiot chucked a foul ball off the bat of A-Rod back onto the field.  At least the crowd appeared to be better behaved than the debacle from Opening Night.

Tonight, Scott Richmond will face lefty Andy Pettitte in a 7:07 p.m. EDT contest at the Rogers Centre.  I'm setting the over/under on tonight's attendance at 25,000 and I'm taking the under.  Place your bets accordingly.

================

In other TDIB notes........

*  The Red Sox rally to beat the Angels 4-3.  They will be without Kevin Youkilis for the next while.

*  The Orioles beat the Rays 7-5 in spite of former Jay Mark Hendrickson.

*  A former Jay steals home to help the Phillies beat the Dodgers 5-3.

*  A former Jay pitcher maintains his innocence.

The First O' Many - Hopefully! | 73 comments | Create New Account
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Richard S.S. - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 05:14 AM EDT (#199857) #

Halladay pitches his usual 2 hour (2:22), complete game, 90 pitch (OOPS) wonder.  The high-ish emotionally-charged pitch count eliminates any chance of Roy pitching on just 3 days rest.  Casey Janssen pitched well enough, 6.0, 4H, 1ER, 1BB, 5K, and is stretched-out enough to recall.  Casey should rejoin the team in time to start the 18th, at home vs White Sox.  Robert Ray (valuable trade asset) will rejoin the Las Vegas 51's after his start on the16th.  Richmond, Tallet, Cecil will pitch on 5 days off, then face Boston.  I like our chances.

Ricky Romero starts tomorrow in his 1st of 2 (or 3) more rehab starts.  Ricky's result is not as important as stretching-out his arm.  His return will be 22nd-24th in Atlanta (preferred), or, 29th-31st at home verses Boston.  When Romero returns, Cecil's clock stops, hopefully long enough to avoid super-two status (148-155 IP limit) this year.  Halladay-Romero-Janssen is a good enough 1-2-3- to throw at anyone, with Tallet and Richmond to follow makes it better.

The DAY OFF on the 28th, the subsequent Boston at Home series, followed by the DAY OFF on the 1st are the earliest we should see Jesse Litsch - 20 (-25)days from his 1st Rehab start.  Any decisions made on who starts, and who goes to the bullpen, will occur after a minimum of 3 or 4 starts by Janssen and Romero.  Let's wait until it happens - life is too short.

zeppelinkm - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 06:16 AM EDT (#199860) #
amie Campbell had one sweet quote tonight - it made me genuinely laugh out loud. With respect to Swisher being called to hit for Matsui who unexpectedly left the game, Darrin says to Jamie "What do you say when the manager calls your name to come pinch hit against Doc?" Campbell: "Uhhhhhh, me?".

Magpie: When my GF arrived home last night I just looked at her and said "Roy Halladay is a god".  I feel we are probably not alone in our sentiments.

Doc sure brought his A game and could not have picked a better night to do so. It's nice when the man goes 6-1 while he is "gearing up".

Final predictions on Aaron Hill's final batting line? I'm going crazy - he's going to finish .331/.392/.515 and be the 2nd consecutive AL 2B MVP.
AWeb - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 07:51 AM EDT (#199862) #
That game was a flash from the past watching Burnett - such a typical start, as I remember them. Dominate for most of 7 innings, have 1 bad inning in there somewhere and give up 2-4 runs (3 in this case), and then hang around a bit too long and give up a homer, thus ensuring the ERA stays somewhere near 5. It's good to get the base-loaded no one out situation and feel like scoring is a given, even against a strikeout guy like Burnett. Good on the Jays last night, and good on Halladay for finally finishing a game ;) It was mentioned briefly a few innings later, but on Rolen's double, was anyone else shocked that Rodriguez wasn't anywhere near the line? It seemed like a routine grounder to me when he hit it, and didn't exactly paint the line on the way into left. Does Rolen rarely hit balls there, or was it just odd positioning?

I didn't think Damon was thrown out stretching a single...it seemed like a double, and was placed like a double. I assume it was a combination of not running full out to start and being slower than he used to be. Snider's arm has impressed me so far - he won't be throwing b-b's from the warning track, but he makes good hard low throws, and hustles to try and make them. That will almost certainly lead to a "rookie mistake" (note, most players make them, but announcers will call it that) at some point, when he makes a wild throw that had no chance of recording an out, but the hustle will prevent more extra bases than it will cause.

I also didn't think Rios went on a hit and run, it seemed like a straight steal to me. He beat the ball to second base easily, which was hit directly there. I would think that a grounder to the bag would get there as fast as a well donw throw. And it was Burnett, he who can't hold a runner on to save his life. Let's go Blue Jays, the best record in baseball! I'm very much enjoying this, even if I'm still a skeptic.
Geoff - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 08:30 AM EDT (#199863) #
I saw a former Jay play last night who would be one of those good depth players one acquires when dreams of postseason glory begin to enter one's somnabulation trips to the local diamond.

He was last seen here as a member of the 1992 Toronto Blue Jays. Which should take out most of the guesswork. (And no, Greg Myers is not still playing.)

Flex - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 08:36 AM EDT (#199864) #
This will seem a small, fussy point to some I suppose, but if we're using pictures to illustrate a game story, why are we using pictures that are so clearly not from the game? They're not even wearing the right uniforms.
Jevant - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:01 AM EDT (#199871) #
I read somewhere that suggested that the Yanks thought that Rolen couldn't pull Burnett.  Oops.
Mike Green - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:11 AM EDT (#199873) #
Derek Jeter was a career .240/.302/.291 against Doc, missed last night's game (after an off-day) with a strained oblique and is expected back today.  Some doctors cure illness; others cause them.:)
John Northey - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:23 AM EDT (#199875) #

Looking at the '92 Jays only David Weathers is still active I think, and another reliever is not something this team needs (12 man bullpen to go with the 10 man starting staff - or does it just seem that way?). 

Hard to say what the Jays need most right now.  Starting pitching was going down like flies earlier, but with Halladay/Richmond/Tallet/Cecil all pitching well and Janssen/Litsch/Romero coming back quick and Marcum possibly back by September I'd say starting pitching is not something the Jays should go for.

The pen has had its issues, but Ryan is about to return plus Downs has been solid as has Frasor and Carlson while League and Camp are on again/off again guys at the back of the pen.  Murphy is way too wild and Wolfe is the forgotten man out there (just 1 game since called up).

Lineup?  The only regulars below 100 for OPS+ are Snider & Rios.  Bautista and Millar are hitting way over their heads as platoon guys.  McDonald is pinch runner/defense only, Chavez is support for Barajas and filler until Barrett is back or one of the kids are ready.  I guess trading for a backup catcher or utility infielder who can play shortstop extremely well might be worthwhile but until someone starts to slow down that's about it.

AWeb - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:59 AM EDT (#199876) #
David Weathers is not only still active, but still getting better, apparently. What an odd career path - he's been in the majors every year since he was 21, but wasn't even league average (ERA+ of 100) until he reached 30. Since then, he's been very good for a lot of teams. And now he's appeared as a pitcher in 909 games (19th all time). Does anyone know how a right-hander with no success as a starter and then a reliever, with no particular ability to strike people out, an average fastball (speed-wise, maybe it moves a lot?) managed to keep getting chances that long? Good on him for keeping at it and succeeding.

What do the Jays need? They need for all of the current successes that weren't a given coming into the year (Hill, Scutaro, Overbay, Barajas, Lind) to keep it going, and keep finding the right moments for their pitchers to succeed. There aren't any needs as of now - wait until the first major injury to the lineup before worrying about that.
christaylor - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 11:13 AM EDT (#199877) #
Flex - perhaps copyright issues?

I don't mind, any and all pictures are good better than no pictures... the ones that tend to appear here I tend not to recognize from other sources (which is why I think da box might care about copyright).
chris_jays - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 11:34 AM EDT (#199878) #
christaylor.

Looks like you lost your bet on the attendance.

92-93 - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 12:07 PM EDT (#199881) #
"It was mentioned briefly a few innings later, but on Rolen's double, was anyone else shocked that Rodriguez wasn't anywhere near the line? It seemed like a routine grounder to me when he hit it, and didn't exactly paint the line on the way into left. Does Rolen rarely hit balls there, or was it just odd positioning?"

My thought exactly. It looked like a routine grounder to me, one that off the bat I was thinking he better hustle to avoid turning 2. I didn't think it was hit remotely hard enough to go down the line for a 2 run double. Rolen keeps chugging along right now and is the team's 3rd best hitter (excluding Overbay because of minimum PA), so let's all hope he can keep up his line-driving ways.
92-93 - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 12:16 PM EDT (#199882) #
"Bautista and Millar are hitting way over their heads as platoon guys."

I wonder if Cito even notices that Millar isn't really hitting lefties. Granted, in their small sample sizes he's still doing a better job at it than Overbay, and the 1B "platoon" has worked out great so far statistically. Bautista is doing his part mashing lefties to the tune of .407/.500/.593, helping the team to its overall impressive .327/.383/.500 against LHP - should come in handy the next two nights with Pettitte and Sabathia taking the ball for the Evil Empire.
Geoff - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 12:23 PM EDT (#199883) #
If the Jays are looking at going deep into the season, I'd want a deal for a veteran RH reliever at the ready. Frasor's doing well in his spot duty, and League is maddeningly talented but not perfectly reliable. Camp and Wolfe shouldn't be relied upon to get you to and through the postseason. This team needs a solid, experienced RH reliever whom Cito can rely upon. Frasor and League are not enough.

You may say 'Jannsen', which would be reasonable, but still he has some health issues and may be relied upon for starting duty. The Jays need a guy like Weathers; not now, but some time later for sure if they are to contend.

Geoff - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 12:26 PM EDT (#199884) #
I suppose you'd be smarter if you'd said 'Janssen'.
Mike Green - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 12:33 PM EDT (#199886) #
Don't forget Accardo. 

I would have zero interest in Weathers.  He is a serviceable middle reliever, nothing more and nothing less.  There is no evidence that he is a better pitcher than Brian Wolfe, for instance.  Reliever's ERA is not a reliable measure of performance. In his case, fewer of Weathers' bequeathed runners have come back to score than is usual. 

Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 01:18 PM EDT (#199891) #
It was mentioned briefly a few innings later, but on Rolen's double, was anyone else shocked that Rodriguez wasn't anywhere near the line?

He was indeed way, way off the line. But it makes sense to me.  It was only the fourth inning, a single scores two runs, and you have to expect that Rolen is going to have some trouble pulling Burnett.
Ducey - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#199893) #

I don't get why Janssen keeps getting mentioned for the starting rotation.  I expect he might get there someday, but throwing him in there right away would seem to be a mistake.

While he did start in the minors, his 2006 1/2 year as major league starter was not that good.  In 2007 he was used exclusively as a reliever.  Given that he was MIA all of 2008 due to injury, I would hope they would give him half a season in the bullpen to prove he is ready for the starting job.

John Northey - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 01:28 PM EDT (#199894) #

So right now the Jays are...

  • 1/2 a game ahead of the Dodgers for best record in MLB
  • 1 game up on Boston for the AL East lead
  • 4 games up on the Royals/Tigers for the Wild Card
  • 6 1/2 games up on the Yankees
  • 7 1/2 games up on the Rays
  • 11 games over 500

Not bad.  Not bad at all for the morning of May 13th, 2009.

92-93 - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 01:43 PM EDT (#199897) #
Ducey, don't get your hopes up, Janssen is returning as a starter replacing Robert Ray. That much is clear from his minor league rehab schedule. And if you believe him that he withheld an injury when he first got called up, look at his first 9 MLB starts : 55.2ip 3.07era 27k 8bb 4hr. With this team's defense, it makes sense to see if he can repeat that because he has the recipes for success - throws strikes and keeps the ball down.
Alex Obal - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 01:56 PM EDT (#199899) #
... you have to expect that Rolen is going to have some trouble pulling Burnett.

Does a pitcher's velocity affect the direction of the groundballs he gives up? (I have no idea.)
dan gordon - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:00 PM EDT (#199901) #

I don't get why Janssen keeps getting mentioned for the starting rotation

Janssen has been a starter for his entire pro career, with the exception of 2007.  Regarding his performance as a starter in 2006, he was terrific for his first 10 or so starts.  I checked his WHIP at the time, and compared it to other starters.  Janssen had the 3rd best WHIP of all starting pitchers in the big leagues at that point in the season.  Johan Santana was better, and there was one other, but I forget who that was.  Then he developed a back problem and tried to pitch through it.  His results were not very good for those last few starts while he pitched hurt, and that made his overall results in 2006 not look all that great, but up until the injury he was fantasic.  I expect Janssen to be an excellent starter in the big leagues if he is healthy.  I have no idea how his shoulder feels, but certainly, he is putting up some excellent pitching lines in the minors so far this year on his rehab.

I like K/BB ratio as a means of evaluating a pitcher's potential.  From 2004 to 2006 as a starter in the minors, Janssen walked 38 batters and struck out 213.  A similar ratio to Shaun Marcum, who was 55 and 332 from 2003 to 2005 in the minors.

#2JBrumfield - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:10 PM EDT (#199902) #

This will seem a small, fussy point to some I suppose, but if we're using pictures to illustrate a game story, why are we using pictures that are so clearly not from the game? They're not even wearing the right uniforms.

I have two words for you - the first begins with "F" and the last ends with "F".  That's if I was in a bad mood but I'm not!  That's not how I roll!  :D  I guess someone has to complain about something, I suppose.  That's like bitching about having to go to the Ontario Lottery Corporation headquarters if you win the lottery.

Anyways, I rank last night pretty highly as one of the best nights in franchise history.  That was as good as this game when it comes to payback against a traitor.  That was Marty Cordova's greatest contribution as a Jay.

Ducey - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:24 PM EDT (#199904) #

That was Marty Cordova's greatest contribution as a Jay.

Seeing that he hit .245/.317/.340 as a Jay, you are on pretty safe ground saying that.

MatO - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:33 PM EDT (#199906) #
I've posted his line in today's game versus Memphis in the minor-league update but don't forget about David Purcey, who had a very nice game, when discussing future pitching options.
92-93 - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#199907) #
"Does a pitcher's velocity affect the direction of the groundballs he gives up? (I have no idea.)"

Yes. As a 3B I was taught to play closer to the line when our soft-tossers were in, and a full step over to my left with the hard stuff on the mound. The idea being that very few very people are going to be out in front of a good FB, and that if they do hit it it's because they are letting it travel a little deeper and spraying it back up the middle.
Alex Obal - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#199909) #
Makes sense. I guess the next questions are: (a) what percentage of AJ's grounders come on fastballs - because he used to get a ton of them and maybe he still does, and (b) which way the grounders he gets on breaking balls go, since his curveball is extremely hard, but also very slow relative to his fastball. And (c): is A-Rod slacking on stealing signs? Rolen's double came on a curve!! (Yeah yeah he's a third baseman now okay whatever it was too easy.)
Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 02:42 PM EDT (#199910) #
That was as good as this game when it comes to payback against a traitor.

Now, now. Al Leiter helped the Blue Jays win a World Series. You can cut him a little slack (and not drink the Beeston-Ash "we just blew the Alomar negotiations, we gotta cover our asses" kool-aid.)
Richard S.S. - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:01 PM EDT (#199911) #
The schedule is reaching a decision point.  While Casey Janssen, may or may not be 100% ready, he's needed here now.  The only problem occurs when you put him in the lineup as his starts are Roy's starts.  The best placement would be right after Halladay.  Why?  Ricky Romero pitches the day after Roy's starts.  He can return as #2 starter when ready, replacing Casey or pushing the others back a day like Janssen's return did.
Frank Markotich - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:03 PM EDT (#199912) #
When Burnett left the Marlins to come here, was he a traitor then too?
Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:08 PM EDT (#199914) #
When Burnett left the Marlins to come here, was he a traitor then too?

Of course not! And neither were Jack Morris and Paul Molitor!

Actually, the Marlins had kicked Burnett off the team with a week left in the 2005 season.
#2JBrumfield - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:10 PM EDT (#199915) #

Now, now. Al Leiter helped the Blue Jays win a World Series.

His ERA of 7.71 in the Fall Classic was stellar!  Granted, he got the win in Game 1 and held down the fort in Game 6 but he sure did his best to put Game 4 out of reach and outsuck Todd Stottlemyre and his bloody chin.  Sorry, I will always hate Alois Terry Leiter!  Now back to my Kool Aid!  :D

John Northey - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:26 PM EDT (#199918) #

Heh.  Players are always traitors when they leave, heroes when they come.  Morris did to the Twins exactly what AJ did to the Jays - sign a contract with an opt out and used it as fast as he could to get more bucks by signing with the team that had the highest payroll in baseball at the time.  Molly went to Toronto to get a ring, just like Clemens did with leaving the Jays for the Yankees. 

Any 'betrayal' we've seen has been duplicated in our favour over the years.  That is just the way it is.  Still, it is fun to boo the 'traitor' and cheer the guy who came here because he likes us, he really likes us!

Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 03:39 PM EDT (#199919) #
What always irritated me about the Leiter business was the way Beeston and Ash used Leiter as a scapegoat after they let White and Molitor walk and then blew the Alomar deal.

Oh my God! We were going to build the team around Al Leiter! Now what do we do? We are so screwed!

It does mean that Al Leiter may be absolutely unique in the history of baseball. He's not the only guy who took less money to play near where he lived, but I can't think of anyone else who got ripped for it.

Chuck - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:02 PM EDT (#199920) #

I wonder how much rolling of the eyes players do when they are bombarded with the hero/traitor narratives that the media and fans seem to live for. I wonder how many of them would have gladly given up 2 years at $24M for 5 years at $85M. My guess is pretty much all of them.

And the whole Leiter as a traitor motif... ack!!!! That's fanboy territory.

Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:22 PM EDT (#199921) #
I'm off to the ball park.

Is there anything anyone can do to help the Angels with their bullpen? They're probably holding open tryouts at this very moment...
Dave Rutt - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:25 PM EDT (#199922) #
As a 3B I was taught to play closer to the line when our soft-tossers were in

With all due respect, 92-93, this sounds like the sort of conventional wisdom that has often been challenged since the advent of sabermetrics. It certainly makes sense, but I think Alex was wondering whether the numbers actually bear it out, as in the case of something like clutch hitting.

My completely uneducated guess would be that batters' tendencies to pull would have more to do with a pitcher's variation in velocity; if a guy throws 100 MPH, but only throws 100MPH, it would be pretty easy to guess what's coming and pull the ball. On the other hand, if Jamie Moyer throws in the low 80s but mixes in a mid-60s curve (I don't know if this is actually the case), maybe the batter is left guessing a little more, meaning they're a little more defensive and prone to hit the other way.

In the Rolen example, I would guess (without having watched the game) that Rolen guessed fastball and was right, since Burnett is somewhat predictable as far as pitchers go. I would also guess it was not a 2-strike count, since I doubt batters sit on a particular pitch with 2 strikes.

Anyway, it's an interesting question and I'd love to see some data.
VBF - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#199923) #
While Casey Janssen, may or may not be 100% ready, he's needed here now.

Why? Everyone, except Robert Ray has pitched exceptionally. Romero seems to be the closest to returning, and he can gladly take Ray's spot. Why exactly are we rushing back a pitcher who is coming off an injury that very few pitchers have ever successfully rebounded from? Now if Cecil starts to hit the crapper, bring in Janssen, but don't mess with something that appears to be working.

Same goes for Litsch. If Tallet and Cecil are doing fine, don't mess with it. There's no guarantee Janssen picks up where he left off. Start him in long relief or something, until you're convinced he can do a better job than the worst starter. I'm not convinced of that yet.

Fans booed AJ because he had a (perceived) pattern of inconsistency, mixed in with a few tantrums here and there. He opted out and signed with some of the Jays biggest competition. If he didn't have any media or fan tantrums, pitched what the fans would consider to be reliable (subjective), and signed with the Padres, this would be a helluva a lot different.


zeppelinkm - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:44 PM EDT (#199924) #

Dave I tend to agree with your post. I think the talent disparity in minor ball growing up plays into playing off the line as well. If you have a 15 year old throwing good gas, most other 15 year olds simply will not be able to get around on it, and it makes more sense to play off the line. I don't think this is the case in MLB as the talent gap between the best and the worst is so small.

However, with respect to your guess, I think it was a 1 - 2 count and a curveball that Rolen was sitting on and got.

chris_jays - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 04:52 PM EDT (#199925) #
VBF all accounts I have read suggest that Janssen is about 7-10 days ahead of Romero. He will be the one who takes Ray's spot.
PeteMoss - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 05:22 PM EDT (#199928) #

Janssen has been a starter for his entire pro career, with the exception of 2007.  Regarding his performance as a starter in 2006, he was terrific for his first 10 or so starts.  I checked his WHIP at the time, and compared it to other starters.  Janssen had the 3rd best WHIP of all starting pitchers in the big leagues at that point in the season.  Johan Santana was better, and there was one other, but I forget who that was.  Then he developed a back problem and tried to pitch through it.  His results were not very good for those last few starts while he pitched hurt, and that made his overall results in 2006 not look all that great, but up until the injury he was fantasic.

In his first 9 starts Janssen had 3.07 ERA with a WHIP of 0.916.  I guess the question would be did the league figuring him out or was the back bothering him because from that point on he made 10 starts with a 7.98 ERA and a 1.904 WHIP.

 

Bid - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 05:27 PM EDT (#199929) #
I believe Rolen hit a curve ball...AJ's likely out-pitch in that sequence--he'd been spoiling the fastballs and was sitting on the curve which he was fortunate to find a little up. Who knows what was on A-Rod's mind...he barely moved.
Magpie - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 05:55 PM EDT (#199930) #
I'm in the house, reading the handouts. At this moment, the official rotation against the White Sox is Cecil vs Danks on Friday, Ray vs Colon on Saturday, Floyd vs Halladay on Sunday, RIchmond vs Richard on Sunday.

I guess we'll see what really happens on Saturday.
greenfrog - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 08:22 PM EDT (#199931) #
Fabulous start by Doc last night...I only caught the last few innings but it was exciting baseball.

Does Richmond's start tonight put him on the bubble? My ideal rotation once Janssen, Romero and Litsch are healthy would probably be Doc, Janssen, Romero, Litsch, and Cecil. Tallet is definitely in the mix but unlike the others, he has proven value as a versatile reliever/swingman. He can start, set up, mop up, or keep the team in an extra-inning game.

If one of the back four gets injured or proves ineffective, the Jays could go to Tallet, Richmond, Ray or Mills.

I'm not crazy about using Richmond in games against Boston and New York, though.
Chuck - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 08:31 PM EDT (#199932) #

I'm not crazy about using Richmond in games against Boston and New York, though.

I hear what you're saying, but given Richmond's pronounced platoon split, you'd figure he'd be less vulnerable to the Red Sox who have just 4 LHB (Ortiz, Varitek, Drew, Ellsbury) than to the Yankees, who batted 7 against him tonight.

Mike Green - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 09:34 PM EDT (#199934) #
The Yankees hit lefties much better than righties.  Between the switch-hitters who are better from the right (Teixeira, Swisher) and A-Rod/Jeter, this is likely to be a season-long thing. 
TamRa - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:03 PM EDT (#199935) #
I guess the question would be did the league figuring him out or was the back bothering him because from that point on he made 10 starts with a 7.98 ERA and a 1.904 WHIP.

A. Being "figured out" doesn't cause numbers to change THAT dramatically; and

B. if they had figured him out to that degree, he couldn't have been effective in 2007.


Bottom line in my opinion is that you can throw out the second half of his 2006 work.

JohnL - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 10:26 PM EDT (#199936) #
Didn't get a chance to post anything earlier about Tuesday's game, but since someone asked about using photos from that game, I have a couple.

Now, my nomination for the weakest crowd sign I've seen in a long time belonged to this guy. But it may be that someone was calling him on the cell berating him for the spelling.

All round, it was a great experience, although I admit I haven't been to many games for a number of years, but from the moment you got near the place, it felt like "the old days". Just a crush of people inside and out. And it was so damn loud inside, you'd think Dave Winfield had returned to town asking for noise. (In fact, I did spot someone leaving the game in a Jays Winfield jersey, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him).

And I know the guy sitting at the end of my row wearing a Jays Burnett jersey was not AJ. Nobody yelled at him. And the little old grey-haired lady at the other end wearing a Ryan jersey didn't even look like BJ, but she did smile when the crowd booed the announcement that he might be returning this weekend.

What a place. What a game.

I took a few shots (from way down the right field line) of Burnett walking off after being pulled. But I didn't realize till I got home that I caught him taking a glance at Halladay (aka Hallay) in the Jays' dugout. Didn't have time to add any Photoshop thought balloons.

Ah well, back at them Thursday night.













Chuck - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 11:06 PM EDT (#199937) #
The Yankees hit lefties much better than righties.  Between the switch-hitters who are better from the right (Teixeira, Swisher) and A-Rod/Jeter, this is likely to be a season-long thing. 

Right, and I'm not disputing that. I'm only saying that Richmond hasn't shown typical L/R splits in his brief major league career. His ROOGY profile seems to suggest that opposition lineups loaded with LHB are going to be trouble.
Chuck - Wednesday, May 13 2009 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#199938) #
But I didn't realize till I got home that I caught him taking a glance at Halladay (aka Hallay) in the Jays' dugout. Didn't have time to add any Photoshop thought balloons.

"If I got 5/85, what's he going to get?"
Mylegacy - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 12:49 AM EDT (#199940) #
So disappointed - LAA beat Boston. Oh dear. Shucks. Heck. Giggle, giggle.
Seamus - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:24 AM EDT (#199941) #
JohnL, that picture of Burnett and Halladay is incredible.  What a moment you captured.   You should sell that to ESPN.
Alex Obal - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:44 AM EDT (#199942) #
No kidding. That's pretty incredible.
Richard S.S. - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 07:25 AM EDT (#199944) #

When J.P. makes a decision about a pitcher, the decision seldom changes.  He said Casey Janssen would start, so Casey will start.  Casey's toughest inning in his last start was the 6th, his last IP.  The prevalent opinion was he got tired, so he'll make another start(s) before rejoining the team 22nd or 27th May. At this point, he pitch between Halladay and Richmond.  Of Janssen's 2006 season:  1st 9 starts: 4 great starts, 1 good start and 4 poor starts ( inc. 1st 2 starts); last 10 starts: 1 great start, 2 good start/appearances, 2 poor starts and 5 starts.  Of 2007 season: http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=tor&playerID=445163&HS=True .  Enough said.  Whether Casey Janssen's future is in the bullpen, in the starting rotation or being traded, his immediate present is in the rotation.

Scott Richmond, for all his success, has given up 13 runs in 9.2 IP.  He's not a #2 starter, but rather a quality 3, 4 or 5 starter.  When Janssen is stretched-out properly, he'll take over as #2 starter.  As long as Richmond pitches consistently,

This is still too far away to discuss fully.  Ricky Romero is 3-4 (+/- 1) starts away.  He'll start between Halladay and Janssen, as #2 starter, upon his return.  Romero-haters need not reply!  Of course mild dislike is all right.

scottt - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 07:41 AM EDT (#199945) #
The Yankees hit lefties much better than righties.  Between the switch-hitters who are better from the right (Teixeira, Swisher) and A-Rod/Jeter, this is likely to be a season-long thing. 

Yeah, but the reason I like Tallet in the rotation is because of his pronounced reverse split. 
rtcaino - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 07:57 AM EDT (#199946) #
Great picture with AJ and Doc! When I first read the comment on my handheld, the images didn't load. But when I saw the pic this morning I was very impressed.

Also, I do not comment frequently, but read daily while the season is going. Whenever I do comment I am compelled to express my appreciation for all the dicussion here. Everyone's insight and hard work is much... Well it's already been said, I appreciate it.

Exciting year so far! Trying to keep it cool, but hard not to get carried away. It's kind of like meeting a pretty girl; exciting, but this situation can still turn out very bad for us.

(Hopefully this turns out better than every pretty girl I have met so far!)
CeeBee - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 08:49 AM EDT (#199947) #

A.J.'s probably muttering to himself.... " Damn you Roy, You said you taught me everything"

Richmond seems to be working his way to the 5 hole or Vegas pretty quickly. It's almost like the Yankees knew what was coming.

JohnL - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 08:52 AM EDT (#199948) #
Thanks for the comments on the AJ/Doc picture. I admit, I did think it was a great (accidental) capture, but unfortunately, I don't know if the quality is good enough... it was a bit out of focus... I still might try someplace that might use it online. (Don't think it would work in print). If anyone has any suggestions, please post.  A larger version is here:  http://jookjoint.ca/images/jays_nyy_040acr.jpg  (May not be able to reply till this evening, as I've found I can't post using my work PC. Haven't found the bug yet).

As for the thought balloons, there could be a second one:  "If he's making 5/85, how much will I get?"  Or maybe, "Listen to the fans, AJ".

Chuck - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 09:07 AM EDT (#199950) #

it was a bit out of focus...

Poetically apt when photographing Burnett.

Gerry - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 09:36 AM EDT (#199951) #
not be a party pooper but I was watching Burnett as he walked off and he looked over at the umpire and nodded as if to say good game.  This picture may have been when he did this.
John Northey - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 09:40 AM EDT (#199952) #

Yeash, one bad start and Richmond is going to Vegas?  C'mon, a bit of patience people.

A complete game last time with one bad inning.  This time I heard on the radio Richmond saying his fastball was a nightmare last night (location) while Damon said Richmond's slider was killer but once they layed off it they were set.  Both mix together quite well and probably define Richmond's big issue - he has a great pitch (slider), a solid one (fastball) and then... So, for Richmond to be more than a 4/5 guy he needs to either get that fastball a lot more consistent or get himself another pitch that can be mixed effectively with his slider whenever the fastball isn't at 100%.

We're hoping Cecil is for real, Romero returns and picks up where he left off, Janssen is 1rst half '06 Janssen and not 2nd half, Litsch is 07/08 not the pre-injury 09 version, Tallet is for real and Richmond is pre-Yankee start Richmond.  Those are 6 starters for 4 slots (plus Marcum in September and McGowan in 2010).  All have questions, all could flop or all could succeed.  Cecil and Richmond both have options left, Romero should have I think, Janssen and Litsch I would think are out of options at this point (could easily be wrong) while Tallet is very far past the option stage.  Lots of items for JP to consider over the next few weeks.

Moe - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 11:51 AM EDT (#199953) #
A question for those of you who were at the game last night: Given how much talk there has been around here about the diminishing defensive qualities in the OF, how would you rate the OF defense on those Yankees XBHs in the 2nd? I only saw the highlights on mlb.com and was wondering whether a Vernon of old could have made an out on one or two of them?
92-93 - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 12:03 PM EDT (#199954) #
I thought both line drives to Vernon were a play that a good CF makes, and that Rios had a legit chance on one of the balls in the gap. The first one was a little tougher because it was directly over his head, but the 2nd one gave him a chance to move to his left and jump and he barely missed it, which should tell you what you need to know. It's gotten to the point where he gets lauded for routine catches that he makes look anything but that because of his diminished range.
christaylor - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 12:47 PM EDT (#199958) #
Yes and I'm very happy to have. Wednesday's crowd was very weak though and the 3 game average I suspect will be disappointing. To respond to something you said to me before, this isn't being negative in as much as I was really spooked by talk of Toronto losing its baseball team -- not that that was ever a real possibility but the Jays were probably a Loria away from it being a real possibility. So it is a negativity that gets expressed but usually gets turned around in my conversations immediately with a "let's go to a game".

To summarize what I've learned about the attendance Tuesday: I shall never underestimate Torontonians zeal for wanting to boo a player again.
snider - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 01:22 PM EDT (#199960) #
Does anyone else think that the biggest problem the Jays have right now is the huge money tied up with Rios/Wells and the lack of offensive and defensive production they are capable of?   In my opinion Wells isn't getting any better and Rios doesn't have enough power to be playing the outfield and batting 3rd.  
CeeBee - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 01:44 PM EDT (#199962) #

"Yeash, one bad start and Richmond is going to Vegas?  C'mon, a bit of patience people."

2 bad innings,  one in each of the last 2 starts and both early in the games.  I was more wondering how much patience the Jays would have, given Janssen and Romero appear close to returning.

Rick - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:06 PM EDT (#199963) #
I think that when considering the attendance last night, it should be remembered that there was a pretty significant hockey game at the same time that had the makings of a classic going in (even if failed to live up to expectations). While the hockey games tonight are pretty big for fans of those teams, there isn't as much universal appeal and so it is probably fair to expect a larger crowd tonight.
Mike Green - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#199964) #
Does anyone else think that the biggest problem the Jays have right now is the huge money tied up with Rios/Wells and the lack of offensive and defensive production they are capable of?   In my opinion Wells isn't getting any better and Rios doesn't have enough power to be playing the outfield and batting 3rd. 

Right now?  They need a better back-up middle infielder than John McDonald, and they need to wait.  You could do worse than that.  In the medium-term, the Wells contract may hold them back.  They really ought not to worry about that now.    Personally, I think that the club would be somewhat better defensively with Rios in center, Snider in right and Wells in left.  I doubt that this change will be made.
christaylor - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:17 PM EDT (#199965) #
This has been discussed to death. In da box archives I think it has been argued convincingly that Wells' contract wasn't out of line when it was given to him. Rios is starting slow. There's nothing wrong with his offensive production level since 2006 nor the amount of money he is being paid or will be paid.

I'd put Snider is RF, Wells in LF and Rios in CF but Rios' own tendencies to "brain cramp" make it difficult to say he'd be much better on whole than Wells in CF; on the other hand he was better than Wells (by plus minus) than Wells last year.

There's nothing particularly bad about the Jays OF defense and I disagree with the assertion that Wells is a "not good" CF. He's declined since 2003/2006 and I'm open to being convinced but I can't see how he's not at least a tick or two above the average CF in the AL.

To make it more concrete what CF/RF pairing would you trade for within the AL? I wouldn't mind the BAL and TEX (just because I dig Hamilton and even there TOR definitely has better D). No on TBR, NYY, BOS, MIN, KC, SEA, LAA CHW. Rios/Wells are more capable than almost every pairing in the AL. Why would you think they aren't?

So no, I don't think that Wells/Rios are the the biggest problem with the Jays (at 23-13 can there really be any huge problems?) and the money is spent so there's no sense worrying about it. No certainly, the biggest problem is the pitching staff -- but there's hope there.
John Northey - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:20 PM EDT (#199966) #

To any outfield defensive shuffling I just think 'Bell as DH'.  For those not around in 1988 - during spring training the Jays gave uber prospect Sil Campusano CF while shifting Lloyd Moseby to LF and George Bell to DH.  This caused a major war in spring training between Jimy Williams (the manager) and George Bell (the MVP for 1987).  The lineup was used a total of 6 times, with the old Bell/Moseby/Barfield group back together first on the 4th game of the season then permanently on May 1st. 

While Wells isn't Bell in any respects, the idea of forcing a move for what would probably be a marginal gain by shuffling the 3 outfielders is just not worth the potential headaches.

FYI: in 1988 the Jays missed the playoffs by 2 games - one has to wonder if they just didn't fight their star player (or stuck to it rather than dropping it so quickly) if things might have turned out differently and rather than Cito back for a 2nd run if we might be seeing Jimy Williams returning.

Mike Green - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:27 PM EDT (#199967) #
rather than Cito back for a 2nd run if we might be seeing Jimy Williams returning.

Please, John.  It is a wonder that Williams had a managerial job again before Gaston did.  This does not speak well of the wisdom of the average GM.
Magpie - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 02:38 PM EDT (#199968) #
during spring training the Jays gave uber prospect Sil Campusano CF...

An uber prospect who had hit .260 with 14 HRs in a full season at AAA in 1987.

And to get this uber prospect into the lineup, the team moved their two best hitters off their positions (and Moseby was just as upset as Bell, by the way - he just dealt with it better). And as an added bonus, they consigned to the bench (and soon thereafter, the minors) a 24 year old prospect who had hit .269 with 14 HRs in the major leagues, and in half as many at bats as Campusano had in AAA.

Oh, don't get me started on 1988! Anyone think the current management has done some dumb things? Behold the 1988 Blue Jays, and gaze in awe at the Stupid...
Mike Green - Thursday, May 14 2009 @ 03:07 PM EDT (#199971) #
That other prospect did, I believe, hit 50 homers a couple of years later, but with luck, will be remembered as the father of a prince.
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