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First and foremost, the mighty Roy Halladay. Even if he hasn't quite rounded into full Doc mode yet.


Then there were those other Rays (forever known as the Devil Fishies around my abode) who knocked off the Red Sox last night, thus sending them back into second place. Early in the game, SoSH poster Mystic Merlin noted that "Longoria is definitely not picking up the ball well off Masterson. Looks very uncomfortable."

A couple of innings later it was "Oh no. Do not walk the bases loaded to face Longoria."

And finally "Doesn't look like Longoria has trouble seeing Masterson's pitches anymore."

So that was gratifying. It wasn't as much fun watching the LA Angels bullpen cough up a 9-4 8th inning lead in new Yankee Stadium, where they are experimenting with many exciting new ideas and concepts, some of which may eventually take hold but for the moment could be slightly ahead of their time. Like the $2600 seat.

And by the way, is it just me or does the AL West, not to put too fine a point on it, blow chunks? Could any of those outfits be described as good baseball teams?
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Richard S.S. - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 01:45 PM EDT (#199267) #
At this point in the season, Los Angeles Angels have so many pieces missing they'll take a very long time getting back.  It's not happening any time soon.  If Texas doesn't hit, they don't win.  Oakland isn't all there.  Seattle might just do something, but will it be enough?
Mike Green - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 02:28 PM EDT (#199268) #
It is possible that by the end of the season, there will be 5 good teams in the AL and that they all reside in the East.  A couple of the O's young pitchers will need to develop and be called up.  More likely, the O's will bide their time and it will be 4 good teams in the East. 
Maldoff - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 02:54 PM EDT (#199270) #
Not to be a downer, but the one stat that concerns me so far this year is that the Blue Jays offense, while putting up great numbers, is currently leading the league with 30 GIDPs (or "Rally Killers"). This was a worry going into last year, and could potentially be a problem going forward.
pooks137 - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 03:19 PM EDT (#199271) #

Waiver:  This statement is made with zero research to back it up.

The high amount of double plays doesn't worry me all that much, as I see it as a function of a good team OBP this year, in particular, the high walk rates for players like Scutaro.  In addition, the slow LHB like Overbay and Lind are going to be prone to double plays no matter what they do.

I guess my other comment would be, so what?  Is it worth worrying about something you can't change?  Gibbons seem to put on the hit-and-run a lot last year to avoid the double play and it didn't seem to help the team's offence overall.  Is there some way to tell players to stop doing it?  Tell them to make less contact?

scottt - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 04:17 PM EDT (#199272) #
Last year's poor offense was mostly the result of a shortage of homeruns. So far, that is not a problem.

I'm not concerned about the double plays either.

Magpie - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 04:35 PM EDT (#199273) #
Sweet.
scottt - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 04:45 PM EDT (#199274) #
Worked out ok. Unearned run didn't hurt Downs. Hill bought back his error with the tying run and the winning run in consecutive at-bats. Must feel good.
Mick Doherty - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 04:49 PM EDT (#199275) #
If Texas doesn't hit, they don't win.

True -- for right now, and they are counting on Hamilton getting healthy, Kinsler continuing his MVP-level year, Nellie Cruz being for real ... all "ifs."

But arguably the best pitching prospect in the big leagues, Derek Holland, is already up in Arlington, cutting his teeth in the bullpen, and will be in the rotation before August.  He took a tough loss last night, but Jay fans might recall his excellent big league debut last week. I have been hyperbolically wrong with young pitcher projections for thirty years -- dating back to my "Frank Pastore is the next Tom Seaver" days of junior high -- but seriously, this kid Holland has a chance to be Halladay-special. (The Rangers would settle for Helling-esque, I think.)

Seriously ... if Holland develops as expected, and the Rangers get anything like their best-farm-system-in-baseball rating suggests they might from guys like Eric Hurley. Neftali Feliz and  Blake Beaven, then you have Brandon McCarthy and Scooter Feldman as your 4 and 5, and that's the best rotation in ... well, in the AL West, anyway! Millwood and Padilla can walk or be trade bait in that case, but even if everything DOESN'T work out with the kids -- and does it ever? -- then hell, Millwood-Padilla-Holland-McCarthy-Feldman STILL might be the best rotation in the AL West as early as end of this season.

Pitching in Arlington? What's next, a balanced US federal budget?
brent - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 04:59 PM EDT (#199277) #
Frasor is 4-0. That pretty much makes me speechless.
brent - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 05:03 PM EDT (#199278) #

Check out Hill's WPA. .300 is delivering a big game. Now think about this for a second http://www.fangraphs.com/livewins.aspx?gameid=290502114

 

Magpie - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 05:08 PM EDT (#199279) #
Holland impressed the crap out of me too - he reminded me of Kazmir, but more impressive physically - but the Rangers have had problems developing pitchers ever since... well, ever since forever. Literally dozens of management teams have been involved, so it's like you can blame it on a selected crew of idiots. The ballpark is obviously an issue - its easier to help young pitchers make the transition into effective major leaguers if the park is helping them - but it's not a sufficient reason. The Red Sox, the Cubs have managed to graduate a few major leaguers over the years.

I always come back to the damn weather. It's too hot to run, and the pitchers all break down in August!

Anyway, unless Holland has the good fortune to get traded, I have to be a little worried about him.

Magpie - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 05:11 PM EDT (#199280) #
My God. Oliver Perez just walked Jamie Moyer.

With the bases loaded.

Didn't I pick this guy to win the NL Cy Young one year?

Mike Green - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 06:31 PM EDT (#199286) #
There is lots to be happy about.  Gaston giving Rolen lots of rest.  Snider looking good despite the .239 average. 
Ron - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 07:21 PM EDT (#199287) #

Well according to Jon Heyman from si.com, JP has finally revealed what he wants in return for Halladay. He said it would take a "boatload". I personally think Doc is worth a lot more than Sir Sidney Ponson.

In the same article, JP said Marcum could be back in August. Considering the source, that probably means August 2010.

 

greenfrog - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 07:32 PM EDT (#199290) #
I was happy to see Rolen getting a rest, too. I'm sure he wants to play every day, but the team will need him to be on his game (and healthy) down the stretch. Bautista is off to a good start (318/455/455), so it makes sense from a timing standpoint as well. Jose went 1-2 with 3 BB in his start at 3B.

I wonder whether it might be time to rest Rios for a game. The team could go with the following lineup:

Scutaro SS
Hill 2B
Lind DH
Wells CF
Overbay 1B
Rolen 3B
Barajas C
Bautista LF
Snider RF

Kind of weird to have your LF and RF at the bottom of the order, but it's still a solid lineup.
Mike Green - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 08:36 PM EDT (#199294) #
Rios (and Wells) will need a day off at some point, and that lineup makes sense.
Clifford - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 09:46 PM EDT (#199295) #

Snyder looked very good in left in today's game. Several running catches and the catch he made near the 375 foot mark in left  was on a ball of a type that often doesn't get caught. And further on defence, Scutaro these past two games has cut across the diamond and thrown out a couple of batters from in front of Hill. First rate. And can somebody tell me, did Chavez throw out those first two basestealers or did the umpire get the call right? I couldn't see well from my seat on the first base side. I was impressed, though, by the speed of Chavez' release.

Finally, in my opinion, today's game was a really good game of baseball. Lots of situations, strategy, opportunity for second guessing, well played (except for the O's woeful bullpen). Something for everybody, no matter what  level of baseball knowledge they possess. I sat near someone from Europe who was watching his first game of baseball ever and even he was able to enjoy the competition. 

And it always helps when the Jays win, of course.

Magpie - Saturday, May 02 2009 @ 11:41 PM EDT (#199296) #
did Chavez throw out those first two basestealers or did the umpire get the call right?

He got the calls right.
John Northey - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 12:48 AM EDT (#199298) #
Interesting looking at the standings.  The Jays have a run differential of +35.  #2 in the AL is Boston at +19 while #3 is KC at +16.  In other words the Jays have as big a spread in runs scored vs allowed as the next two AL teams COMBINED.  Plus are on the longest active winning streak in the AL (OK, just 2 but still...)

Sweet.

Before we get too high though, two teams in the NL are ahead of the Jays at +36 - Dodgers & Cardinals.
Waveburner - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 04:56 AM EDT (#199300) #

Interesting looking at the standings.  The Jays have a run differential of +35.  #2 in the AL is Boston at +19 while #3 is KC at +16.  In other words the Jays have as big a spread in runs scored vs allowed as the next two AL teams COMBINED.  Plus are on the longest active winning streak in the AL (OK, just 2 but still...

To have that run differential despite the recent implosion of the starting rotation is unreal. Yah some bats will cool, but some will also get hot and the pitching will at least get healthier. This team is pretty hard to judge right now.

 

Richard S.S. - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 05:06 AM EDT (#199301) #
Just a rambling of ideas.  Robert Ray pitched well enough to keep his team in the game, so he's earned another start.  Today was more of an stress-limiting count than a pitch count.  Another Hill error costing a late game run - lapse in concentration or something more telling?  8 more games before the break (the 11th).  Any reason Toronto can't win at least 6 of 8 before they sweep the Yankees? 
China fan - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 05:48 AM EDT (#199302) #

More good news: Ricky Romero should be back in a couple weeks at most.  Bastian reports that Romero threw 40-45 pitches in a bullpen session on Saturday morning and felt good. He will throw another bullpen session on Monday and will likely be sent out on a Minor League rehab after that.  (My own guess: one or two rehab games should be enough, and then he'll be back.)

Meanwhile, Robert Ray pitched well enough to deserve another start.  That will be next Thursday in Los Angeles.  Not much discussion of Ray so far on this site (and I'd welcome some analysis from anyone who watched him closely on Saturday) but I think his debut was good enough to add him to the mix of potential pitchers in the starting rotation for the second half of this season (and 2010).  It's quite an amazing list:  Halladay, Romero, Richmond, Litsch, Janssen, Purcey, Cecil, Mills, Ray, Marcum, McGowan.   Choosing 5 good pitchers from that list shouldn't be hard.  And, dare I say it, the pitching depth could even offer some trade bait if the Jays need any help for a playoff run in August.  Although so many of those pitchers are so young that they still have options and can be stashed at Las Vegas for months at a time if the Jays prefer to keep them around, which might be the better strategy.

 

 

westcoast dude - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 08:00 AM EDT (#199303) #
It was fascinating watching Ray's pitch location on Gameday. Robert dodged and weaved his way through the stacked top of the Orioles' lineup. All his walks were of the quasi-intentional variety, almost like the proverbial Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.  By the fifth inning I got the sense that he was enjoying a pitching duel and he retired the side with two strikeouts.  There was almost a deja vu feeling of: Is this A. J. Burnett's kid brother?  Bottom line: close enough to a Quality Start on his maiden voyage to set the table for the usual extra innings theatrics and heroics.  Another RR stud joins the stable.  I'm eagerly anticipating his LA start.
Mylegacy - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 01:37 PM EDT (#199308) #
Is Ray a Ricmond clone? Good enough for a number 4 or 5 guy on most teams.
dan gordon - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 02:35 PM EDT (#199309) #
Great summary of the injured pitchers by Alex Anthopolous on the radio broadcast.  Janssen 2 or 3 more rehab starts, the 7th, 12th and maybe the 17th, then he will be back.  Want him to be able to throw 90 pitches.  Romero has rehab starts on the 8th, 13th and then he could be ready.  Litsch looks like early June, maybe late May.  Marcum doing extremely well, and could be ready 10 months after surgery, so he could be here in Sept, possibly even in August.  McGowan could be ready to go in Sept.  Accardo is looking good, the splitter was the best it has been last night, and he was hitting 94 on the gun.  Will be with the Jays at some point.  No timetable yet for BJ Ryan, but once his trapezius muscle is OK, he will go on a rehab.
Waveburner - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 03:00 PM EDT (#199310) #

Am I the only one not encouraged by the Jays saying Marcum or McGowan may be back this year? Can we not maybe learn a lesson about rushing TJ or labrum pitchers back? This news irritates me to no end. I keep wanting to hear they are finally going to play it safe with a pitcher recovering from major surgery for once. How many arms need to go down before they do? Everyone?

 

Nolan - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 03:23 PM EDT (#199311) #
Have the Jays obviously caused a setback/re-injury in one of their pitchers?  I, for one, can't think of one example of this.  The pitchers who have had major surgeries - Doc, BJ, Dustin, Marcum - don't support this theory at all. 

Are there others whom the Jays have ruined that I am blanking on?  Chacin had injury problems... Did Janssen come back too early after his surgery?



christaylor - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 03:47 PM EDT (#199312) #
I liked what I saw from Ray (20 rows from behind home plate)... decent fastball command, the curveball could be better (IRC correctly it was a curve that Jones knocked out of the park). As mentioned by another poster, he had enough juice later in the game to get a couple of Ks. Haven't checked pitch/fx but it looked like that he didn't get the call on a couple of low pitches. All in all, if he can work with good fastball command in the low 90s the secondary stuff is good enough. I'm interested to see if he can work with Arnsberg to tweak things a bit - that said if this is as good as he'll be; he looks like a viable back-end of the rotation starter which is more than good enough to "maintain" (as Cito repeated today on the radio).

Today on the radio I heard that Richmond made a point of going up to Ray and tell him to be aggressive and trust the gloves behind him. All in all, it looked like he listened.

That's the long answer, but the short answer is he's not really a clone and having seen both recently up close (Richmond against Texas); I'd say that Ray has more upside but Richmond is a more mature pitcher. Nothing glaring to not like in either case.
dan gordon - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 03:54 PM EDT (#199313) #
I can't think of any pitcher they have rushed back and caused a reinjury due to being rushed.  Janssen didn't reinjure his shoulder, he suffered from some tightness or weakness in the front of the shoulder,  not a reinjuring of the area that was operated on, which was at the back of the shoulder.  Anyway, the comments were that they were amazed at how well Marcum, for one, was recovering, and how great his arm feels.  Anthopolous said they checked him with the surgeon, Dr. Andrews, and he said it looked like Marcum might be one of the guys who is ready after 10 months rather than 12.  If the guy can make it back in 10, why not?  The doctors and trainers know a lot more about it than any of us, and absent evidence that the Blue Jays are rushing pitchers back from injury to their detriment, why not accept their professional judgement as to a player's readiness?
scottt - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 04:55 PM EDT (#199314) #
With the pitching and hitting it's easy to forget that the Jays have an excellent defense.

Good thing that Rios did not get the day off. I'm going to trust Cito, with resting the position players.

With the Yankees game rained out today, the Jays will see Ortega/Weaver on Wednesday/Thursday. That should  make things easier for Doc.

brent - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 07:31 PM EDT (#199315) #

Wow. Baltimore has already been swept by Toronto and Boston. Their season is looking down and out after just one month. It's disappointing seeing some teams drop out so quickly. I'm still glad for the sweep to give the Jays a little breathing space between them and the Sawks.

I'm curious what Tallet will come out with. He was left out there to take his lumps last game, and I wonder how he will come back from it. I can't wait for Cecil's start. I might try my best to watch it in the middle of the night- that's how excited I am. Last, I am really glad that Westcoast trip is real short at only 5 games. If things go wrong, the team won't lose a lot of momentum (I am sure many others here also dread the trips to the West.).

Gerry - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 07:38 PM EDT (#199316) #
David Purcey made his first start for Las Vegas today.  He gave up only one hit in 6.1 innings with 6 strikeouts.  On the other hand he walked five, hit two batters and threw 50% of his pitches for strikes.
greenfrog - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 08:35 PM EDT (#199317) #
I think Purcey will come around. I don't know why. It might take a while, but I think he'll be back to throwing strikes more consistently later this season. Whether there will be a rotation spot available by then is another question.

It's obviously early, but if the Jays keep this up, I have no doubt that Beeston will be active in getting Rogers' support to make an acquisition or two this summer. (Besides, the Canadian dollar--and Rogers' stock--has been recovering nicely in recent weeks.)
brent - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 09:02 PM EDT (#199318) #
When the pitchers return, there will be too many around. Where do you upgrade? CF and RF (by the stats) are the places to improve. Rios and Wells will come around, so who do you go and get? Are you going to sit Snider or Lind? I would go for a hard throwing righty closer for the bullpen (but might be used as the set up man or whatever). I think that is the weakest link (need another righty in the pen). 
92-93 - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 09:23 PM EDT (#199319) #
"When the pitchers return, there will be too many around. Where do you upgrade?"

Right there. You can target a guy like Bedard, hoping that by then it catches up to Washburn and Seattle is in a sell-mode. Maybe a Romero/Litsch/prospect offer gets them thinking. A Halladay-Bedard-Cecil-Janssen-Richmond would look pretty strong for the remainder of the season, and it may help you pursue Bedard as a FA in the offseason.
Mike Green - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 10:23 PM EDT (#199321) #
Purcey had a no-hitter through 6 innings with 3 walks and 6Ks.  He was brought out for the seventh, walked the first two batters and then gave up his first hit of the day.  His command comes and goes.  It will be nice when it arrives for good...

What a difference a year makes.  With the right relievers in the high leverage roles (Downs, Carlson, Frasor and League) and the hitters improving (and a little bit over their head), the club is a formidable opponent despite the injuries in the rotation.  Some of it is probably luck, but Gaston has done a great job so far. 



Magpie - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 10:32 PM EDT (#199323) #
You can target a guy like Bedard

Make sure that it's not actually Bedard, though. Please.
TamRa - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 10:35 PM EDT (#199324) #
I'm not saying I wouldn't go for ANY veteran top-of-the-rotation guy but I would NOT trade Romero in a package for Bedard. Over the next 5-7 years I'd rather take my chances with Romero as have Bedard.

I might be presuadred to build a deal around Purcey for him but I'm not a big fan of Bedard.

Not that he doesn't get good results but he's in his age 30 season, he has an injury plagued history, and he's looking at a helluva pay-raise soon.
Plus he has a pissy attitude.

It's just hard for me to get excited about that.

Now, if we were going to do something like Purcey+Ray+Tolisino or some such, and be cool with letting him walk when he hit free agency and taking the picks, then by all means.

But I wouldn't overpay in prospects and then try to re-sign him because I had so much talent invested.

A cheaper option might be Doug Davis if the D'Backs are not in the race



92-93 - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 10:38 PM EDT (#199325) #
Magpie, call me crazy, but I'm a fan of pitchers with a career 8.68 K/9 rate. When he's healthy there's few better.
JohnL - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 10:48 PM EDT (#199326) #
I can't say I've followed much of the coverage regarding the new book on A-Rod, as the media coverage seems mostly been about his steroid use (surprise!). This other news may have had coverage, or been discussed here in some other thread, but I hadn't noticed it.

The allegation -- given some credence by Jeff Blair -- is that Rodriquez used to tip some opposing batters to his pitcher's pitches (in blowout games, and in exchange for similar help). Hard not to give credence to stories alleging him cheating. I think the piece will be in Monday's Globe & Mail.
http://sports.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090503.wsptblair04/GSStory/GlobeSportsBaseball/home



scottt - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 11:08 PM EDT (#199328) #
I've read about the pitch tipping a couple of days ago.

Can someone explain the technical details to me? How does a hitter know what his pitcher will throw next ? How does he pass that info to the batter on the other team? Isn't that more complicated than stealing the catcher's signal? Has A-Rod ever had friends on other teams? He doesn't seem to have any on his own team.

 It should be easy to look up old games and spot the at-bats provided the scheme actually worked.





Thomas - Sunday, May 03 2009 @ 11:46 PM EDT (#199329) #
Can someone explain the technical details to me? How does a hitter know what his pitcher will throw next ? How does he pass that info to the batter on the other team? Isn't that more complicated than stealing the catcher's signal? Has A-Rod ever had friends on other teams? He doesn't seem to have any on his own team.

It's pretty simple. A-Rod reads his own catcher's signal and either signals pitch type or location (or both) to the hitter using some scheme that's similar to how a runner on second stealing signs would do it. A-Rod then hopes the opposing shortstop (or second baseman) would relay similar information to him.

It should be easy to look up old games and spot the at-bats provided the scheme actually worked.

Actually, I would think it will be very difficult to ever establish the truth of these claims, unless there are repeated testimonials from other players that they engaged in a quid-pro-quo with Rodriguez. However, such admissions would likely be as damaging to that player's reputation as A-Rod's would be, so I'm not sure we'll ever see them.

Nolan - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 12:01 AM EDT (#199330) #
With regards to AROD and the pitch tipping, I am quite sceptical.

On one side we have Selena Roberts who is of questionable reputation and her unnamed sources.  While on the other side there are ex-teammates saying there is no way this was happening.

Also - if it was happening - who were the other players in on the scheme?  That is a lot more interesting to me....

China fan - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 04:14 AM EDT (#199332) #

Interesting article today on MLB.com about the Jays bullpen and how heavily it has been utilized so far.  The Jays bullpen was used for 87.2 innings in the first 26 games of this season, which is second-highest in the AL (behind only Baltimore).  Bullpen usage by the Jays is almost 25 per cent ahead of last year's pace. 

Is this a potential issue?  With so many rookies in the rotation (and a converted reliever), the Jays will continue to depend heavily on their bullpen as the season wears on.  Could some relievers become over-used and wear down?   My own calculations suggest that Jesse Carlson at his current pace would pitch 88 innings this season, while Downs and League are on pace for 82 innings each.  Even in the minors, none of those three has ever pitched more than 70 innings as a reliever (and League a lot less), if you exclude their long-ago stints as starting pitchers.  Carlson is the one that I'd be most worried about.  Cito will have to watch very closely to avoid excessive use of these guys.  (And he promises to do so, according to the MLB.com article.)

One temporary solution is the arrival of Brian Wolfe and the imminent arrival of Accardo (who should be promoted very soon, I think).   The Jays are not using Murphy very much at all, which puts a heavier burden on Downs, Carlson and League.  If they're not going to use Murphy, send him down and replace him with Accardo.  Tallet's return to the bullpen would also be helpful in easing the burden on the others (although Tallet, too, could be over-used if you include his innings as a starter). 

Link to the MLB.com article:  http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090503&content_id=4548088&vkey=news_tor&fext=.jsp&c_id=tor

scottt - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 07:23 AM EDT (#199333) #

It should be easy to look up old games and spot the at-bats provided the scheme actually worked.

Actually, I would think it will be very difficult to ever establish the truth of these claims, unless there are repeated testimonials from other players that they engaged in a quid-pro-quo with Rodriguez. However, such admissions would likely be as damaging to that player's reputation as A-Rod's would be, so I'm not sure we'll ever see them.

Yeah, I don't expect the statistical case to be overwhelming. The accomplices would probably have to be in the same division and play in the infield.  Blowouts involving Texas in which A-Rod doesn't get a hit until the other team bring in their mop up pitcher should not surprise anyone. I don't think he ever needed help hitting poor pitching.


Richard S.S. - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 08:21 AM EDT (#199334) #
Toronto's matchups -vs- Clevland, today and tomorrow, definitely favour the home team. Bullpen, defense and offense also favour the home team.  In fact, it's hard to find a series, this month, where Toronto isn't favoured.  And the pitching will get better.  (Any time after the 11th, Purcey could be ready).  By the 15th, Romero or Janssen will be back.  Which lets: a)Tallet rejoin the Bullpen;  b)Ray to be sent down; or, c)Cecil to be sent down.  By the 22nd, Both should be back and only a), b) or c) left to do.  By the 25th May - 5th June, Litsch should be back and Toronto should be on a roll.  Toronto will know the value of Murphy, Burres, Bullington, Ray, Cecil, Purcey and Richmond.  The minors will have had another month to 6 weeks to develop.  Teams will be desperate for starting pitching / relievers, possibly salary relief, maybe both, maybe more.
Flex - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 08:56 AM EDT (#199335) #
I wouldn't be so sure the match-ups favor Toronto. Carmona (up against Tallet) is a former 19-game winner and he's 2-0 against Toronto with a 1.88 era.
mathesond - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:28 AM EDT (#199336) #
It should be easy to look up old games and spot the at-bats provided the scheme actually worked.

It seems everyone's favourite midwestern sports writer has already tried that...

http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009/05/02/tip-sheet/
Mike Green - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:44 AM EDT (#199337) #
China fan raises a good point.  Murphy is in the left-handed long man role, and there hasn't been much occasion to use him, with Doc (as usual) and Richmond pitching well and deep into games.  Accardo is pitching well in Las Vegas, but probably wouldn't be used in the Murphy role anyway.  Presumably when the starters return, Tallet will eventually make his way back to the bullpen and his comfortable role. 
TamRa - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 10:03 AM EDT (#199339) #
I wouldn't be so sure the match-ups favor Toronto. Carmona (up against Tallet) is a former 19-game winner and he's 2-0 against Toronto with a 1.88 era.

Carmona doesn't appear to be the same guy he was 2 years ago though. IIRC the Indians went way past what they should have under the +30 Rule on Carmona that year because of the playoffs.

He's not been the same since.

In any case, I just don't see how what happened in 2007 trumps the 6.28 ERA he's sporting now.

That said - it's hard to be sure which Tallet we'll get.

Clifford - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 10:09 AM EDT (#199340) #
I saw the weekend series with the O's and offer these observations on pitching before the news cycle moves on:

Friday Doc was at 113 pitches, two out, a couple of runs in and the tying run on base and Cito headed for the mound. Halladay may have seen him coming or may just have been mad at himself for the previous pitch but he tossed the resin bag down forcefully on the backside of the hill. Cito got there, spoke to Doc for about 5 seconds, something along the lines of, I imagine, "You OK? You want to stay in and get this guy?", received an "I'll get him" and then he turned 180 and left. My response as he went back was, "A manager can still do that?"  And he left him in even after the next batter was safe on a Baltimore chop. The inning finished with the next man up.
This was a fine example of managing men, to my eyes. To get respect you give respect and I think all the Jays, who this year are experienced professionals at every position, appreciate how that was handled.

Robert Ray on Saturday looked nervous. And Richmond's game on Sunday would have benefited greatly from keeping the leadoff man off base. But in both games when it got to the late innings and the call went for relief the feeling was, "The men are here and things are under control." The relievers brought in, League, Carlson, Frasor, and Downs, looked tall and confident on the hill and one wouldn't blame the team in the first base dugout for starting to wonder what would be in the postgame spread. Scott Downs' walk to K ratio is unbelievable.

And another observation about pitching that sticks in the memory is the bottom of the eighth on Sunday. Guthrie had pitched a more than decent game for the O's, six hits, a single walk, around 90 pitches as I recall, but in that inning he and the catcher literally ran out to their positions and started warmup before half the rest of the team had come out of the dugout. It was an, "I'm sick of losing and I hate a losing attitude" kind of example. He blew the Jays away that half inning, once hitting the gun at 95, his  tops all day. His demonstration of competitive fire at that moment earned him this salute of respect from me.


Mike Green - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 10:40 AM EDT (#199341) #
Travis Snider now has 158 major league career PAs.  He's hitting .266/.314/.448, which is entirely in line with reasonable expectations after his minor league record.  Best of all, his W/K is right where it ought to be for him.  The variance between his outings in 2008 and 2009 appears to be random. 

One more idiosyncratic note on the start of 2009.  The Jays as a club are 12-1 stealing bases, although they don't really have a really threat in the lineup.  If one was to look for signs of good coaching, you can see them all around. 

92-93 - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:11 AM EDT (#199342) #
To further expound upon Mike's point :

The Jays, in 2008 under Gibbons, were successful in 47 out of 70 SB attempts.
The Jays, in 2008 under Gaston, were successful in 33 out of 37 SB attempts.

I often find myself wishing that guys would be running more often, but is Cito actually controlling the running game in the most efficient of manners?
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:38 AM EDT (#199345) #
Magpie, call me crazy, but I'm a fan of pitchers with a career 8.68 K/9 rate.

Normally I am too, but let me share a couple of observations involving Bedard. These came from his coaches in Seattle last summer, as they addressed how everything Went So Wrong last season:

Coach A:

You had pitchers complaining about having to throw to Kenji Johjima all spring, then saw him get a three-year contract extension in April.  You had guys watch Felix work his [butt] off in camp and watched Bedard do the minimum – and Bedard was the opening-day starter.

Coach B:

Arthur Rhodes started sitting on the bench when players were taking extra hitting, extra infield drills, and shouting, ‘Where’s Richie? Anyone seen Richie Sexson?’ because Sexson was never there.  Then Bedard started setting his own pitch counts, and sitting in the clubhouse during games he didn’t start. Mac tried dealing with that – we all did. How do you make the highest-paid players on your team work harder if they decide they’re not going to?”

Granted, I don't know if he'd pull that kind of crap if Roy Halladay was the Alpha Dog, rather than a kid from South America. But I still don't want to find out.

BTW, I think a large part of the improvement in SB-CS is because there isn't nearly as much starting the runners in order to avoid the DP. I don't blame Gibbons for trying it - but it just didn't work. They had a lot of guys caught stealing, and they still hit into a zillion double plays.

92-93 - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:48 AM EDT (#199346) #
Let me tell you what Bedard's stat line says this year : 31ip 27h 6bb 32k 2hr.

I heard all these tired arguments about Burnett before he came here too. I don't care about any of it, only the results.
Mike Green - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:57 AM EDT (#199347) #
My comment about the SB/CS rate wasn't directed at Gibbons.  45/4 SB rate for a team without much speed over Gaston's tenure (effectively a full season) is an excellent number.  Most teams that steal that rarely do well to succeed at a 3-1 rate because there is pretty much bound to be a few botched H and Rs in the lot.  Dwayne Murphy might be part of the reason, but that's a pure guess.

When you think about it, it is kind of funny that Gaston (who was a cut and slash hitter as a player) brought in Tenace and Murphy who were Moneyballers in spirit before the name existed.  Yin and yang happily co-existing, I guess.

westcoast dude - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 12:10 PM EDT (#199348) #
Much like the Blue Jays, somehow the Mariners are a different team this year. Take yesterday's game, for example. Oakland led 4-3 but in the bottom of the 9th, the M's tied it up.  Top of 13, A's scored 3, bottom of the inning, Seattle tied it again.  But their starter had only gone 4.1 innings and now they were down to the last man in the pen. No problem, they won in a walkoff in 15 innings.  When everybody pulls together, good things happen.
Nigel - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 12:20 PM EDT (#199350) #

Let me tell you what Bedard's stat line says this year : 31ip 27h 6bb 32k 2hr.

I heard all these tired arguments about Burnett before he came here too. I don't care about any of it, only the results.

I live in Vancouver and so I get to see nearly all Mariners' games.  I would guess that I have seen 18 or 19 of Bedard's starts since he arrived in Seattle.  The bottom line results are good - no question - but there is something Leiteresque about him that has to make you think hard about whether you would pony up  significant propsects and $12m/ year (going considerably higher) to acquire him.  To wit:

- he throws so many pitches trying to strike people out that his pitch counts get high and early.  He's averaged just over 5 innings per start since arriving in Seattle.  This is not injury related.

- there's always something physically wrong with him, nearly every start comes with a question mark about whether he can go or not (listening to the M's broadcasters is comical on this topic).  This uncertainty is crippling for a pitching staff.

- this is more gut feeling (showing a negative bias I'm sure) than is probably true but somehow, someway the end results in terms of victories always seem less than what you would expect - whether due to a poorly timed walk, HB or wild pitch.

What he throws is almost unhittable and he will lead the league for starters in K/9, but the whole always seems less than the individual parts in my opinion.  That does not make him a bad pitcher, far from it, but be careful what you wish for.  If he's a jerk to boot (I have no clue one way or the other) well that's just one more reason to run not walk away.

 

Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 01:16 PM EDT (#199352) #
I heard all these tired arguments about Burnett before he came here too. I don't care about any of it, only the results.

I never heard that about Burnett, just that he couldn't stay healthy. Not really a bad guy to have around, just a guy you can't count on being able to pitch. It is probably a coincidence (but it's definitely the truth) that the only times Burnett has been able to make 30 starts in a season were the two times he was headed to the free agent market.

It's also true that there was some bad blood about the way Burnett left Florida in September 2005 - the Marlins actually kicked him off the team with a week to go after he popped off to the press after a game. But I thought then it and still believe that this was a clear case of finding a convenient scapegoat - and what could be more convenient than a player who wasn't coming back anyway? Everybody in Florida was very frustrated, and and half the team was popping off to the press about it. In mid-September, they were the Wild Card team. But they lost 12 of 14, and got to watch it on TV. Burnett wasn't the only unhappy camper, and he wasn't the only one talking about it.

As for Bedard, who has never pitched 200 IP and has only once made 30 starts in a season - actually, now might be a good time. He's a free agent after this season.
Chuck - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 01:49 PM EDT (#199353) #

he throws so many pitches trying to strike people out that his pitch counts get high and early. 

In his 2009 Gold Mine, Bill James reports on a study where he investigated whether strikeout pitchers do, in fact, throw more pitches. His conclusion: "So there is a pattern [between SO rate and pitches per inning]. But it's minimal."

In James' study, the high K pitchers averaged 16.3 pitches per inning. All pitchers (high K, medium K, low K) averaged 16.1. For his career, Bedard is averaging 17.2. (As an aside, Halladay is averaging 14.3, and that's from 2002 on, when he was good Roy -- the data is not available pre-2002 and probably shouldn't be considered in his case, even it were).

So it appears that Bedard, who averages just under 6 IP per start, is throwing about 6 more pitches per game (6 * (17.2-16.1)) than the average starter would. Looking at it that way, he is costing himself the ability to see one or two extra batters per outing.

But, if one takes the position that someone with Bedard's stuff should nibble less and trust his stuff more, a la Roy Halladay, then there's an argument that's he throwing about 18 more pitches (6 * (17.2-14.3)) than he should in a 6-inning span. This would be costing him about an inning per start, which of course is huge.

I have not seen Bedard pitch very often but I assume that I'd come away with the same feeling of frustration that Nigel reports, enduring a very good pitcher needlessly nibble. Juan Guzman and Kelvim Escobar were notorious in these parts for inciting the same exasperation.

Finally, back to James' 2009 Gold Mine. Like its predecessor, it's filled mainly with the odd semi-interesting factoid. But there are also a handful of essays, reminding us how Bill James can explore questions like no one else in his field, even 30 years after cobbling his early days, typewritten, photocopied, hand stapled Abstracts.

The book's best essay is an examination of hitter profiles in terms of their goundball/line drive/flyball ratios. It was a huge eye opener, and to Bill James himself when he crunched the numbers.

Mike Green - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 01:53 PM EDT (#199354) #
It is too early to speculate about Bedard.  If the Jays are in the hunt in July and the Mariners are not, then maybe. 

If we are going to have a rerun of 1992, someone has to play "David Cone" and it might as well be a Canadian. 
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 02:08 PM EDT (#199356) #
If the Jays are in the hunt in July and the Mariners are not, then maybe.

Can't see that happening. Can't see anybody ever being out of it in the AL West, until September 1. If then. Can't really see anybody being in it, either. They're all just going to... sort of be there. More or less.
Ron - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 02:34 PM EDT (#199357) #
Why give up young players/prospects for Bedard when you can just go after Sheets (assuming he's healthy) as a free agent?
Chuck - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 02:37 PM EDT (#199358) #

Can't see anybody ever being out of it in the AL West, until September 1.

The $300 clue: "Playing .500 ball."

"What is how the west was won, Alex?"

92-93 - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 03:15 PM EDT (#199359) #
If you can get Sheets for just money and he's healthy, of course you pursue that avenue. I just don't see him wanting to come here, choosing Toronto over a multitude of other teams who at the time are also pitching starved yet fancy themselves contenders.

Bedard to me represents a realistic trade target that, if he performed well, the Jays would be interested in resigning as a FA. The money involved in a projected payroll increase back to 100m+ will have to be spent somewhere, and SS and C don't really have any worthwhile options. I think JP gets involved in a SP pursuit this winter, and that everyone besides John Lackey could be considered, including the 2 flamethrowing Canucks, Harden and Bedard.
Dewey - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 03:38 PM EDT (#199360) #
I think JP gets involved in a SP pursuit this winter,...

What, you mean JP isn't going to be fired?!  I thought we had *decided* that. 
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 03:53 PM EDT (#199361) #
"Playing .500 ball."

Photobucket
Mick Doherty - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 04:37 PM EDT (#199362) #

Why give up young players/prospects for Bedard when you can just go after Sheets (assuming he's healthy) as a free agent?

I think Sheets is a slam dunk to sign with Texas. They had a deal worked out already and practically half the name on the dotted line before finding out about the severity of the injury. That's right, the contract said "Ben Sh ... oh wait, he's hurt ..."

Jdog - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 04:51 PM EDT (#199363) #
OK who picked Scott Richmond as the 2009 AL ROY winner. Anyone?
HollywoodHartman - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 05:46 PM EDT (#199365) #
Off topic: If I went to Friday's game, and want to cash in my ticket for a free slice does it have to be before the strike of midnight? Or is it until closing time.... Just wondering in case I want a late night snack.
brent - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 06:19 PM EDT (#199366) #
Chinafan, the bullpen innings are a concern. OTOH, the Jays have been winning so much that they haven't been able to use the lower leverage guys as much. The team needs some more days off. I am not sure what Cito can do with so many injuries.
92-93 - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 06:32 PM EDT (#199367) #
He can withstand the temptation of using Downs in a 6-2 ballgame (Doc's last start) even though he hadn't pitched the last 4 games. He can throw a bullpen to stay loose if he has to, he doesn't NEED to come into the game.

Having Downs and Carlson tired and unavailable for the Cleveland series (or at the very least tonight) does not bode well for the Jays, considering how dominant Cleveland's LHB can be. I don't think I have ever seen Soo Choo get out against the Jays.
brent - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 07:01 PM EDT (#199368) #

Was anyone listening to McCown? Did he say the 2001 Jays had no holes in their lineup? That team finished 16th overall in runs scored that season.

greenfrog - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 07:52 PM EDT (#199371) #
From Joe Sheehan's latest chat on BP:

Ron (Vancouver): Do the Jays win at least 85 games this season?
Joe Sheehan: Under.

Not an unreasonable position, but man, what a killjoy. Sometimes I think all these professional PECOTA- and WARP-toting analysts should just take a break and enjoy some exciting baseball.
Flex - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 08:26 PM EDT (#199372) #
Wilner is calling the fifth inning of the Jays broadcast right now, filling in for Ashby who's back with his family for unknown reasons. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the first time Mike's done play-by-play during the regular season.

Doing a nice job too. Maybe a tad over-excited, but I generally like his on-air quality.
Moe - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 08:42 PM EDT (#199373) #
Interesting article today on MLB.com about the Jays bullpen and how heavily it has been utilized so far.  The Jays bullpen was used for 87.2 innings in the first 26 games of this season, which is second-highest in the AL (behind only Baltimore).  Bullpen usage by the Jays is almost 25 per cent ahead of last year's pace.


Does anyone know how many extra innings the Jays had relative to other teams and relative to last year's team? I have no idea, but it could account for some of it - of course the state of the rotation doesn't help. However, I'm not sure the bullpen is that much of an issue, BJ could come back, Accardo could come back and there are a few more kids that could be called up if we need a fresh arm. Just have to keep Downs fresh.

And talk about depleted rotation: Tallet has a no-hitter through 6 (albeit 3 BB and a HBP), but hey AJ had 9 BB and a wild pitch during his ;)
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:04 PM EDT (#199374) #
Sometimes I think all these professional PECOTA- and WARP-toting analysts should just take a break and enjoy some exciting baseball.

I can't help it anymore. Whenever I hear "PECOTA" I always think of Paul Knoerko. Upon being informed that PECOTA was projecting 72 wins for his team Konerko muttered "Well, we're screwed now."

Especially when you can't help remembering that PECOTA predicted 71 wins for the 2005 White Sox.

Granted, the White Sox confuse the hell out of most of us every year.
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:09 PM EDT (#199375) #
Tallet has a no-hitter through 6 (albeit 3 BB and a HBP)

He doesn't anymore. And it's all your fault.

I'm just saying. You don't mess with these things.
Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:20 PM EDT (#199377) #
Does anyone know how many extra innings the Jays had relative to other teams and relative to last year's team?

At this point of the season, the main factor affecting the staff is the number of games played. Jays pitchers have worked 246.2 IP in 27 games - both figures  lead the league.  The Angels pitchers have worked just 201 IP - but they've played 4 fewer games.

Oakland's pitchers have worked 208.2 IP but in just 22 games, an average of 9.46 IP per game (the Jays are 9.12 per game, Seattle at 9.09. Everyone else is between 8.66 - 8.96)

Last night the Twins staff led the league with 1459 IP, the Orioles had the fewest with 1422. League average was 1444, the Jays had 1446.
Gerry - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 09:42 PM EDT (#199379) #
The Jays bullpen use came back to bite them tonight.  Jesse Carlson and Scott Downs needed a rest and that left Brandon League to face a parade of lefthanders.  That still doesn't excuse a horrible 0-2 pitch from League to Cabrera.
Moe - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 10:14 PM EDT (#199380) #
He doesn't anymore. And it's all your fault.

I'm just saying. You don't mess with these things.


I wish I had the ability to actually jinx a player. Dustin Pedroia could wipe that smirk off his face ;)

Seriously, after the last outing I'm happy with Tallet tonight even after not getting a no-hitter no one expected anyways.

greenfrog - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:34 PM EDT (#199381) #
"That still doesn't excuse a horrible 0-2 pitch from League to Cabrera."

Yes. To me that was the turning point (although the game had other inflection points). With League's stuff, an 0-2 count, and a chance to win the game...as Pat Tabler likes to say, "here's where you need to make a pitch." Unfortunately, League didn't.
Waveburner - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:38 PM EDT (#199382) #

Nice job by the Jays to bounce back twice after blown leads late, but couldn't quite pull it out. Agreed on the pitch to Cabrera, catching the heart of the plate 0-2 is just irritating.

Must say though, Vernon Wells is very quickly becoming an atrocious center fielder. Thought that Martinez 'double' in the 9th was an easy fly ball. Sizemore catches that ball easily. Wells has been taking poor routes to alot of balls in center field this year, as well as just generally looking a lot slower. Few bounced off his glove that in past years would have been routine for him. I think it's time for him and Rios to switch positions.

 

Magpie - Monday, May 04 2009 @ 11:53 PM EDT (#199383) #
When Mel Ott was managing (1942-1948), any pitcher who gave up a hit - any hit - on an 0-2 pitch was fined $500.

My handy-dandy inflation calculator says thats a little less than $5000 in today's currency. But the players compensation has grown a tad more than the mere rate of inflation. In 1942, Stan Musial began his first full season as a major leaguer making $400 a month - about $2400 per year - which I would take to be de facto minimum wage at the time. (Once they saw he could play ball like - well, like Stan Musial - they quickly bumped his salary up to $4500.)

Anyway, a $500 fine in 1942 represented a little more than 20% of the actual major league minimum at the time. Today's minimum is a bit over $400 K. So an equivalent penalty today would be an $80,000 fine.

After Tallet last week against the Royals, League tonight in the 9th, and Camp in the 12th, Gaston might be seriously considering it.
Magpie - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 12:05 AM EDT (#199384) #
Must say though, Vernon Wells is very quickly becoming an atrocious center fielder.

Curious. Not at all the impression I had formed from the games I've actually seen him play in person this season. At this stage of course the numbers are very inconclusive. Wells only has 49 putouts in 26 games - Rios, in RF, has 60 putouts in 26 games. That's quite odd, but it tells us nothing whatsoever about where the balls are being hit, and it looks like lots and lots of balls are being hit to RF against the Jays staff. Rios actually ranks near the bottom among major league right fielders in Zone Rating (he's 16th out of 21.) Wells ranks first - I was surprised myself - among major league centre fielders by the same measure. Which is hardly perfect, I grant you.
Ron - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 03:30 AM EDT (#199387) #
I think Sheets is a slam dunk to sign with Texas. They had a deal worked out already and practically half the name on the dotted line before finding out about the severity of the injury. That's right, the contract said "Ben Sh ... oh wait, he's hurt ..."

I disagree. Let's say Sheets is ready to pitch at the beginning of August and the Rangers are out of playoff contention, I don't see Sheets signing with the Rangers. Sheets is likely to sign with a team that pays him the most money and the best chance of winning. If the Jays can stay in contention and are willing to pony up the cash, they should be an attractive option. The Jays D should help his ERA.

I've looked around and can't find an update on his status. I know he had elbow surgery in Feb but it appears there's no timetable for his return.
Flex - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 09:31 AM EDT (#199388) #
Can we have a new TDIB please? Or change the name to This Week in Baseball.
CeeBee - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 02:26 PM EDT (#199397) #

Nice  quality start for Cecil in his ML debut. Hopefuly 3 runs is enough and the bullpen does a better job today.

6IP 6H 2R 1ER 0BB 6K

Mike Green - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 03:52 PM EDT (#199398) #
I missed Cecil's outing completely.  Work is such an annoyance sometimes.  I am sure that there is a story about 3 HBPs and no walks, but 6Ks and a 7-4 GB/FB usually means that he's got things working.  Any on-the-scene reports?



Jdog - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 04:24 PM EDT (#199400) #

My amatuer observations on Cecil:

His slider was as advertised, was fooling a lot of hitters.

A couple of the HBP(Shoppach) were barely off the playe inside and just happened to hit shoppach's elbow pad which he had hanging over the plate.

Cecil got into a lot of deep counts early on, lots of 3-2 counts, but was better at working ahead as the game went on.

The defense let him down a couple times. Hill dropped an fairly simply pop that was ruled a hit, and there was a nice double play ball that was not turned.

The slider looked good though and as the game went on his fastball command seemed to get better.

Mick Doherty - Tuesday, May 05 2009 @ 04:31 PM EDT (#199402) #

Let's say Sheets is ready to pitch at the beginning of August and the Rangers are out of playoff contention

Fair disagreement, but two points ... one, my understanding is that the main reason Texas didn't sign him is that he almost certainly WON'T be ready until '10. Like you, I have had not luck in finding an update on that status. Two, and only a mildly less serious point, but nobody in the AL West is "out of playoff contention" until they are actually mathematically eliminated. The Rangers are actually over .500 right now, too! They may hang around until really late in the year, especially if the kid pitcher I mentioned yesterday, Derek Holland, steps up like he obviously is capable of doing.

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